26/02/2016 Scottish Liberal Democrats Conference

Hello and a very warm welcome to our live coverage

of the Scottish Liberal Democrat spring conference.

The pledge to increase income tax will be toasted by delegates

This morning, members voted to drop their support for a local

income tax, and against the leadership backed the lifting

We're waiting for the keynote speech by the party leader,

The Liberal Democrats are going into this conference

rather battered and bruised after the general election last year.

Voters made them pay a heavy price after their term in coalition -

eight Scottish MPs lost their seats, a total of 49 across the UK.

I'll be joined for the duration of the programme by Professor John

And our political editor Brian Taylor is also with me,

live at the Assembly Rooms in Edinburgh.

Gentlemen, good afternoon to you. Brine in Edinburgh, battered and

bruised but perhaps a behave face from the Liberal Democrats? I think

a couple of things are trying to give them optimism. They are seeking

optimistic prospects at every point they can. I think first of all they

believe the memory of their coalition with the Conservatives

which they accept was damaging to their electoral prospects in

Scotland. In Scotland they believe the memory of that is beginning to

fade as the fact of a single Conservative government without the

Lib Dems settles into the public mind. Secondly, if you talk to some

of the candidates and potential candidates for Holyrood in May, and

they think that this offer of a penny for education is beginning to

get some traction in the public mind. There is no sense yet that it

is shifting the public opinion polls but it is beginning to get some

traction. I think that's an intriguing aspect to bear in mind. I

think Willie Rennie will go strongly on that point in education and give

details how they'll spend it. I think they'll accuse the SNP and

some Tories about obsessing about independence, and we've had two

votes thaw mentioned earlier. A rather intriguing one on fracking

when they backed lifting the moratorium on planning and licensing

for unconventional oil and gas extraction subject to robust

regulations being in place. I don't think it is politically too clever

whether to contest the Greens. Next week we are expecting the Scottish

Government to set out their plans on local taxation. This is a debate

from earlier today. A local income tax has for many years been one of

our sacred cows, a unique selling points for us the. It has certainly

served us well for many years. It is sad to ditch old friends but in the

new Scotland with powers over many devolved taxes it is time to can

sign little income tax to the past. It was designed in a different

world, the 1980s, a British unitary state when the Government of the day

came one the monstrosity of the poll tax. But Scotland has powers over

many devolved taxes and we need look at the impact that many of the

changes have for the basket of taxes in Scotland. A property tax has to

be part of the mix of taxes in Scotland. But if we were to keep our

present policy and replace the council tax with a local income tax

that would mean the only property tax homeowners would pay would be

stamp duty when they die their house. Property tax must play a

bigger role than that. Also think of tax competition. Something taken for

granted in federal states but entirely new for Britain. Tax

competition prevents any Scottish Government making income tax

significantly higher in Scotland than it is in England. Otherwise the

wealthy would just rearrange their affairs to pay their income tax in

England. Putting 1 penny on all tax bands to fund education, that will

not make such avoidance behaviour worthwhile. But if we add on top of

that penny another 4.5 pence income tax for local councils we'll see

widespread transfer of income to England and Scotland will be the

loser. Remember too that taxation of investment income and savings isn't

devolved, so under local income tax a millionaire living off investments

would pay nothing. That certainly can't be fair. The great thing about

property or land taxes is that you can't move your house or move your

land. Avoidance is impossibility and collection rights are high. One

other principle must ring out loud and clear. Whatever taxation we have

it must be truly local. We need to bring back local democracy. Local

councils must be free to set the amount their constituents should

pay. Let's put an end to the nonsense of the Finance Minister in

Edinburgh who thinks he knows best. Mr Swinney caps the council tax, he

caps the business rates. He cuts the grants. We need to end this

dictatorship. Let's see a real decksy. Let's give councils fair

property or land tax and set them free to use it the way they want,

not the way that Mr Swinney demands but to meet the local electorate

wishes. The SNP like nationalist parties throughout history addicted

to centralisation and control. We've seen the disastrous centralisation

of the Police Service in Scotland and the imposition of council tax

freeze which has hobbled local government in Scotland to an

enormous extent. I don't believe that that is the way forward. I

don't believe that one size fits all for local authorities in Scotland,

local authority finance in Scotland. We need to give local authorities

the power to decide the mix of taxes that they will impose. I think the

disappointing thing about the consultation paper that's been

circulated is that seems to set it out as if it is an either or, you

must have either a property tax or a local income tax or land value

taxation. You can't have them all. I think it should be for local

authorities to decide what mix of those taxes, perhaps other taxes as

well, a supermarket tax, a tourist tax in some areas. That would allow

different couples in different parts of the country to create a basket of

taxation which could raise a higher proportion of their income and which

would suit their circumstances. I too not for one moment believe that

the needs of Shetland are the same as those of Glasgow or that those of

north Lanarkshire are the same as those of Edinburgh. This

consultation asks two big questions: My answer to the first, I am not in

favour of replacing the council tax with a local income tax, for two

reasons. Most people depend on earned income. If we as Liberal

Democrats wants to improve the opportunities for ordinary people to

fulfil their potential, we must change the focus of our tax system

away from taxing the earned income, and instead increase the taxation of

unearned income, like dividends, and of capital, such as land as

property. Adding to the existing taxation of earned income with a

local income tax of perhaps 4-5% goes against in fundamental Liberal

objective. Our local income tax policy should be thrown out for that

reason alone. Secondly, local income tax, well, it's easy to avoid

legally. Wealthy people can legally reduce their taxable income,

sometimes to zero. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the wealthy

will pay more under a local income tax. It doesn't always work like

that. So what would I like to see replace the council tax? I favour

optio would I like to see replace the council tax? I favour option

four - land value taxation. The value of land is mostly determined

by two things. Firstly, the rules which apply to its use, enforced

through the planning system. And secondly, by the level of public

investment in infrastructure and services. Why should the owners of

land see its value rise through no effort of their own and make no

commensurate annual contribution to public funds? I feel that both the

commission and indeed the Liberal Democrats today are having slightly

the wrong debate. What we should be asking is how do we fund local

government in a sustainable way, and in a genuinely locally democratic

way? Which I think we all support as Liberal Democrats. Our, the amount

of money which is raised through council tax has fallen and is now

around 10% of council budgets. That of course is the amount we get from

that is more or less dictate by the Scottish Government for the past

nine years, which I think has emasculated a lot of the local

democracy within our areas. So we have five different options here.

They are all good options, like Liberal Democrats we can see the

pros and cons of each. We want a more progressive system but we don't

want people to tax avoid. Therefore property is also a good tax system.

So I suppose the basic thing we should be looking at as a policy

committee is what is the balance of taxation we want raised locally? I

think we should go back perhaps to 50-50 as it was a few years ago. And

how are we then going to have a basket of taxes, as we are the only

western country which relies on one local tax. I've got around a dozen

friends who live in the city centre in one bedroom flats. All worth the

same amount. But their incomes vary massively, from learn ?17,000 or

?18,000 a year to close to ?100,000. They are all paying the same council

tax. I cannot see that that is in any sense fair. And local income tax

is still, with all the alleged disadvantages, a much better system

than any others that are proposed here. Exchanges earlier today in the

conference hall. Brian Taylor has been joined to discuss those issues

by an MSP. Thank you. The vote was in favour of in principle moving

away from your long-held policy of local income tax. Do you think

that's right? I think what the independent commission reported in

December did was bring forward a range of property and land taxation

options. The challenges is then set not just to the Scottish Liberal

Democrats but to all parties ahead of the up-coming elections to come

forward with proposals informed by those deliberations. What conference

had an opportunity today to do was look at a range of those options to

reflect on whether a local income tax would be preferable to those

options. Decided probably quite rightly that the benefit of property

and land taxation options are they can't be moved about, and therefore

they could form the basis for funding local government. I agree

that the vote was pretty clear that it was moving away from your

long-cherished policy, but we didn't hear, there wasn't clarity, which

option you were going for. Will you be able to have that in your

manifesto for the May elections? The commission set the challenge to all

parties that going into the elections in May they need to set

out, be clear, what it is that needs to be put in place to replace what I

think by general consent is seen as an unfair council tax. We are

confident that on the basis of the discussion this morning there's a

clarity that we need to move away from the local income tax. There are

options that can now be reflected on in more detail and will be in our

manifesto in Fay. Manifesto in May. There's a possibility it could be

more bans for the council tax or assigning some proportion or share

of income tax on a local basis. What do you make of that as a blend

approach? Well, I don't want to prejudge the discussions that will

take place in the party after this morning's session but clearly one of

the failings of the current unfair council tax is that it was devised

in the early 1990s. That the lack of bans, the evaluations on which it is

based are so woefully out of date that they would need addresses if

something of that ilk was to remain in place longer term. The one of the

problems is, the commission came forward with options for priority

and land taxation in the absence of a Land Registry for the next decade

or so, that option really isn't a runner for the future. If you extend

the number of bands on council tax, it could mean people in bigger

properties paying more, perhaps considerably more, in some of the

areas that you are trying to win seats. That might not be hugely

popular. We need to make sure that what replaces, as I say an unfair

council tax, better reflects the ability of people to pay. Increasing

the number of bands is one option that's been put forward. It has

attractions to it. Not least because it moves away from the very blunt

instrument put in place by the Tories in the early 1990s. I don't

want to prejudge the discussion in the party.

Let's turn to the other vote you had this morning, on fracking, as it is

called, oil and gas extraction. You discuss lifting the moratorium, is

it politically clever when going head-to-head with the Greens in some

places? Conference has had an opportunity to debate the issue and

vote this morning. It was no secret Willie Rennie's preference was for

the moratorium to be placed. I think it was more on the basis of the

implications in terms of our climate change targets, which we've failed

to meet ever since we put the climate change act into force. The

debate this morning evolved more around the safety aspect, while

those are very relevant, I think they didn't necessarily capture the

concerns many people have. Willie Rennie has quite rightly set out in

terms of our aspirations of reducing CO2 emissions. Is your policy likely

to feature in the manifesto? Might it vanish into the mists of history?

I'm not going to write the manifesto in front of... Go on. Tempting

though it may be, I probably ought to keep counsel on this. We need to

reflect what Conference has decided, one of the aspect I think is clear

from the debate this morning is that local authorities and planning

authorities absolutely need to be convinced around the safety aspect.

I think what was perhaps missing from the debate was more of a

discussion about the implications in terms of CO2 emissions than for

meeting climate change targets. That we will need to reflect on. Thanks

for joining us. Those two debates this morning, Willie Rennie's speech

to come. Professor John Curtice

of Strathclyde University is also with me for the duration

of the programme. Before we get to those two issues,

let's look at the Lib Dems electoral prospects. I said at the beginning

of the programme they are battered and bruised, terrible general

election for them. Maybe a slight glimmer of hope for Holyrood

according to the polls? The good news for the Scottish Liberal

Democrats is they did so badly five years ago in the last Holyrood

election that there is almost only one way to go, and that is up. They

got around just under 8% of the vote, the constituency wrote, they

held onto two seat in the Northern Isles, that was it. Down to 5% on

the regional list vote, which is crucial. The truth is what will

happen in the Northern Isles is difficult to call, there were two

big challenges from independents. It makes it more difficult to say what

will happen now. This was the one constituency, Orkney and Shetland

combined, which the party managed to hang onto in last year's general

election, though subsequently local MP Alistair Carmichael got into hot

water about what he said about a leaky had authorised. On the list

vote at least the opinion polls now suggest they are around 7%. The

difference between five and seven might not sound a lot, but it takes

you from not getting a seat in most regions of Scotland to probably

getting a seat in most regions of Scotland. There are eight of them

altogether. Maybe we could expect seven, maybe eight Liberal Democrat

MSPs, rather than the five they have at the moment. If you look at recent

polls, they are probably about one percentage point or so better than

they were at the time of the general election. If you look at local

Democrat by elections, the Lib Dem vote is going up a bit but not

dramatically. We're not looking at them recovering from the damage

inflicted on the party in 2011, and it returning to being one of the

four big parties in Scotland, but maybe it will just be a little bit

stronger than it was five years ago and a little bit stronger in

Hollywood than it is at present. It will face a challenge from the

Greens who perhaps also are around six or 7% on this vote. One thing

they will want to avoid is becoming Scotland's fifth party. 2011, 2015,

briefly in this one, when do you think voters might want to stop

punishing the Lib Dems for their role in the UK Coalition Government?

When they begin to have a message people begin to be excited by and

buy into. And as a result game credibility. Maybe one of their hope

is that because of the EU referendum both Conservative and Labour parties

look extremely divided. Anybody who is at least in favour of remaining

inside the EU, gaps may be asking themselves, do I need to give Tories

and Labour a bit of a lesson by voting for the Liberal Democrats as

a protest party? They have to start recreating themselves as the protest

Now, before the conference got under way, Brian Taylor interviewed

Willie Rennie for our morning conference webcast.

Brian asked him about the forthcoming European referendum.

But first of all the questions were all about the party's policy

for a penny on income tax - where would he spend that money?

There are four particular areas we would invest in. Because it's an

urgent situation, Scotland's education system is slipping down

international rankings, so we believe urgent investment is

required now with his penny on income tax, a modest investment for

big return. We would invest in four particular areas. One is nursery

education, we know it's the best educational investment we can make,

particularly before the age of three. Something we argued for in

Scottish Parliament very strongly. Nursery education is the first

priority. Second priority is to invest in a pupil premium, something

that has been done down south already. Its target particular

children who need extra help at school. We are proposing in the

order of ?1400 for primary school kids, ?900 for secondary schools.

Does many go to schools or local authorities? -- does the money. It

will be targeted towards individual pupils. Unlike the attainment fund

the SNP have. Straight to read Masters and headteachers? Straight

to schools so headteachers can manage it for the people to need

extra support. It can't just be put into the general pot within the

school, it has to be additional entitlement for those individual

pupils who need extra help to close the attainment gap to give them the

chance. Pupil premium is the new announcement today we are making.

The third area is to stop some of the cuts to schools the SNP are

imposing. But also repair damage to the colleges. There are 152,000

places being lost in our college education system. We think we need

to repair some of the damage to that. Schools, colleges, nurseries,

that is the top priority. I'll talk about the impact of the taxation

proposal. Isn't there a big fundamental flaw in this? That the

tax plans for the year ahead, 16-17, have been set already by the

Scottish Parliament. You can't do this in the year ahead. I've heard

of theoretical physics but this is the radical politics. It's a great

disappointment, the SNP rejected our plans, even the Labour Party's

plans, too. Two parties in the Parliament making a big case for

this and they rejected it, to our great disappointment. I don't think

they can claim to be anti-austerity any more if they are not taking the

opportunity when given the power. Let me under your question. The

powers will be there next year and our proposals for the next budget

will be to make that urgent investment. You call it urgent, are

you telling people honestly the doorsteps, I'm proposing reedit

income tax, but I can't actually do it. No wonder people are cynical

about politics. The next budget is the big next opportunity for us.

It's a five-year Parliament to remember. We'll be making that case.

You would stick to this tax plan? Because by next year there will be

new tax powers in place to control all income tax rate in bands, the

power to vary between upper and lower, you will stick to this plan?

Tax increase across all rates? Yes, we've proposed, also, a zero rate on

tax, too. In order to provide an extra bonus on top of the personal

allowance... As funds allow... That is the kind of priority we'd have.

As we get economic return from our investment in education, we would

invest it in boosting personal allowance so more people are taking

off tax altogether. At Westminster we cut the tax for those on lower

and middle incomes and raising the personal allowance, it has gone up

to ?11,000 thanks to the Lib Dems in government. We want to carry on that

campaign, those measures, to help those on low and middle incomes. Are

you telling voters you are now canvassing, we have a proposal for

tax, education spending, but we can do nothing about it until 2017, do

you tell them honestly? At the first opportunity we will do something

about it, give us the power and we'll do something about it the

first opportunity we get because we believe it's so urgent. It's a great

disappointment the SNP rejected our plans. The next budget the first

opportunity we get we will be investing. Do you think it's right

to get people earning as little as ?15,000 pay additional income tax.

They weren't, you have two earned over ?19,000 to pay more tax next

year compared with this year. After that the advantage of it will have

gone? There are further plans to raise the personal allowance, it'll

go up even further. Comparison year to year people will not be paying

more tax unless they earn over ?19,000. Your party in coalition at

Westminster educated to increase the personal allowance, you made a big

deal of agitating and increasing personal allowance, now you are

taking away the advantage of that if given a chance in Scotland. If we

were in government now at Westminster we wouldn't be cutting

as deeply as the Conservatives are. No pretending about it. Liberal

Democrats were proposing to spend more money than the Conservatives.

What we're doing is using the powers we have in Scottish Parliament to

put that right, make the investment in education we desperately need

now. To be clear, you will definitely impose an income tax

increase of 1% across all the rates, not confined to the upper rates?

People on the standard rate in Scotland will know they pay more

under you? As I said, because of the personal allowance, the fact they

have raised that, you'd have to earn over ?19,000 to pay more. I think

it's progressive and fair. Because it's income tax it's a progressive

tax. Those on the lowest incomes, even above ?19,000, are paying a

fraction of what those in positions like myself... Earning a decent

salary. People earning ?20,000 a year could afford to pay more income

tax? It is way below the median income. The economic return on

education return you are getting for those families, two, because the

investment in education creates jobs. But also they are getting

education investment to give their kids a chance to get up and get on,

it's a virtuous circle, a benefit to everyone in society. It's a modest

contribution we're asking them to make for a big return. When I hear

that phrase, modest contribution, modest proposal, I can't help

thinking about Jonathan Swift. I won't give details, look it up

online. Gavin Maxwell and his proposal on the EU, what is your

plan B? Your party in favour of retaining EU membership, what is

plan B, if the Irish electorate decides to leave the EU? Respect

Gavin's question, but sometimes these questions frustrate me. David

Cameron, will he remain as Prime Minister if he loses the referendum?

I don't really care! People have other problems to worry about. If

we're wanting ourselves out of the EU will have a few difficulties to

deal with, I don't care who is Prime Minister. Do you think David Cameron

will remain Prime Minister? Falling into the trap. We've got issues,

free movement of people, open markets, the fact universities can

cooperate with the money agreement, studying in one country one year,

another the next. The fact we have peace and to curate in on the

continent. Our ancestors would beg for this peace and tranquillity

across the EU in devious entries. They would look at incredulity we

would even consider leaving. I'll indulge your question in an answer

about independence. I suspect there's a big ample David Cameron is

taking by doing this anyway. -- big gamble. If we get to a situation

where Scots, as Nicola Sturgeon says, are pulled out of the European

Union against our will and there are lots of ifs and buts within it, I'm

sure there might be some demand for another referendum. I think it would

be difficult, really difficult, once we just pulled ourselves out of one

of our biggest markets, the European Union, that somehow we would decide

to pull ourselves out of our first, biggest market, the rest of the

United Kingdom. One French followed by another would be pretty

difficult. -- one wrench. We regret David Cameron's actions on this, I

don't think it's necessarily good for the country. David Gray has a

question on the point you've raised. He says SNP tactics are threatening

another one in a generation referendum. Are you saying you think

there would be some justice, given the constitutional dilemma that will

have been created? Some justice in holding a second independence

referendum. I get frustrated that we've got one of the biggest

decisions we've got, we just made a decision about independence. We've

settled that for a generation as Nicola Sturgeon has made absolutely

clear, very, very clear, we settled it for a generation. And when we get

an opportunity to debate something really big for our country, open

markets, free movement of people, cooperation between universities,

peace across the continent, will we decide to have another debate about

independence? I just think we should focus on the big challenge ahead of

us. Let's be positive, let's stay in the European Union, let's not have

another proxy debate on independence. I don't want to go

there. I think the most important thing we do is to make sure Scotland

says within the European Union, that, surely, should be the priority

for everyone, rather than dragging us off into another independence

debate. It caused enough of a division. Are you comfortable your

party's positioning on Europe is in line with public opinion? There are

people who perhaps here your arguments about peace and

cooperation, but they just see the European Union as a bloated

bureaucracy with an overweening power, many see it that way, even

those who ultimately, to say they are in favour of remaining in the

EU, are you comfortable being the cheerleaders for the European

project? I will always make the case for

international co-operation. It is of significant benefit. You will always

get people who deride Government and institutions. It is not the most

popular thing in the world to advocate. But tinge opportunities

are tremendous through that co-operation across continents, in a

Continent that's been blighted by conflict in previous centuries. Are

I don't think we should take it for granted what we've got. Of course it

is not perfect. Willie Rennie, the party leader,

is about to make his keynote address to delegates at the Assembly

Rooms in Edinburgh. Well trailed look at the pupil

premium. I think there'll be elements of the speech but it is

points about the taxation offer, the benefits they can have from it. It

was intriguing to hear him say it wasn't just something to be

challenged to the SNP during the budget process. Willie Rennie

regards that as a longer term project. In 2017, by then they'll be

able to distinguish between upper and lower rates. The puzzlement

about how much increasing the upper rates in Scotland would bring in.

Would it bring in much given the flexibility of people's capacity to

move their earnings elsewhere in would it bring in that much or do

you have to consider the standard rate? It is a tough decision for all

the parties. An even tougher decision for the voterser who have

to pay for the consequences. Professor Curtis is with me. You

were nodding your head there. In a sense we've now seen the Liberal

Democrats going back. This is quite an intriguing U-turn by Mr Rehne.

For recent years the UK party and Mr Rehne's been helping to cheer lead

for it has been saying they've pushed the Conservatives into the

personal allowance and reducing taxation for most people. The

Liberal Democrats will say they were the originators of the idea. What we

are going back to is the policy of the party under the 1990s when Paddy

Ashdown argued for an increase for a penny in the pound UK-wide to spend

more on education. The party is doing this U-turn back to its policy

of the 1990s. In the 1990s it seemed to serve the party well, and it fits

the fact that the Liberal Democrats do tend to do relatively well

amongst University graduates, among those working in the public sector.

And therefore the idea of spending more money on education probably

helps to appeal to the Liberal Democrats' niche market. You were

asking me what have they got to do to recover, the first thing to do is

try to get back on board those people you would expect most of the

time would vote Liberal Democrat, will many of whom defected from the

party in 2012 and 2015, and maybe by going back to a traditional Liberal

Democrat stance he is hoping to pull people back in. And he is possibly

anticipating that they'll never have to deliver on the policy. Exactly.

It is interesting that that's the move away from the Nick Clegg party

to the Ashdown party. In a way you saw Nick Clegg speaking in the House

of Commons recently. It suggests quickly how quickly people move on

in politics. Indeed under Nick Clegg the pressure was there before him.

The party shifted to the right. Danny Alexander wanted a low tax

liberalism. There's also the social liberal stream that's always

emphasised the value of public services and is always willing to

have higher taxation to pay for it. In truth the Scottish Liberal

Democrats are going back to that social liberal stream. Hopefully

they think as a way of getting a hearing once again with the Scottish

electorate. They've got competition, as the Labour Party is also

proposing to increase income tax, not with the purpose of spending on

education, but there's competition now in this market. One of the

things that we should bear in mind here, this is the first Scottish

election, the one that's coming up, at which parties will be expected to

come up with proposals on taxation and spending. No lower than does the

Scottish Parliament simply have the accept the amount of money it gets

from Westminster and decide how to spend it. It will have

responsibility for raising some of its own money. That widens the

debate and creates opportunities for parties to think about the balance

of taxation and spending in Scotland. We'll hear from Willie

Rennie shortly. He'll be making his keynote address to the delegates.

For many of those delegates, we were talking about the coalition earlier,

it's been a pretty rough ride for them over the past few years. Many

of them left the party. Indeed, a rough ride, to the early years of

the coalition in the autumn of 2010 when they were party to the decision

to increase university tuition fees south of the border. Up to ?9,000,

when most Liberal Democrats MPs had signed a pledge to say they wanted

to get rid of University tuition fees. This was one of the party's

distinctive ideas. It fitted their belief in the importance of

education. That policy reversal, their position in the polls fell

away rapidly. People said these guys said they are going to do one thing

and have done something different. For any private company, let alone a

political party, that's a disastrous position to be in. The Liberal

Democrats never recovered in the last Parliament. They've suffered

the consequences in Scotland in the 2011 Holyrood election and the 2012

local government election. The only question now is how much, if at all,

can they recover from the rock bottom that they'll be starting this

election for Holyrood in a couple of months' time. And the general

election at the lost some very good Parliamentarians. Not least Charles

Kennedy, who passed away last year. Those good people have gone from the

party essentially. Sure, one of Willie Rennie's obvious problems, he

has been a one man band in Holyrood. If the media wanted someone to talk,

it was Willie Rennie who came on. In opinion polls, more people think he

is doing a bad job rather than a good job. But people are saying, who

is this person, I honestly don't know. He doesn't have well known

characters like Charles Kennedy Willie Rennie is making his way to

the stage to make his keynote speech at the Liberal Democrat spring

conference in Edinburgh. Thank you Sheila. I want to talk to you about

a new member of our party. Becca, a bright, intelligent and brave young

woman. We are fortunate to call her a fellow Liberal Democrat. She has

given me permission to tell you this story. What she did was something

quite simple. She told her story. She wrote about her experience of

the health service. Only a few years ago she was suffering from

depression. Following a break-up from her boyfriend, she considered

suicide. What happened next is something that must be condemned to

the past. She was told by a doctor at A that she was a drain on the

NHS. No support. No treatment. Just a lecture. But Becca is making a

difference. Making a difference by speaking out. And the response is

encouraging. Every time I now mention mental health on a public

plant form, the silent nods around the room fill me with hope. Hope

that the stigma is fading. Hope that there's a growing demand for change.

Hope that this will lead to the unstoppable change to our NHS so

that mental health is given the equal support that deserves. But we

need more than nods to make change. We cannot wait any longer for

change. For Becca, for thousands of people who are crying out for help

and for the many who cannot be heard any more because we were simply too

late. For all their sakes we need change and we need it now.

APPLAUSE. We want the best for people with

mental health problems. Scotland used to be amongst the best in the

world for so many things. That's what the next five years have got to

be about. To make us the best again. At our heart Liberal Democrats want

every individual to achieve their potential. To be the best we need

the skills, talents and creativity of everyone who lives here. To

participate in the economy and society, to feel that they belong.

Diversity and education will be the twin engines that drive invention

and creativity. To enrich our country and provide a bright Liberal

future our economy needs a Scotland where we can craw on the well

educated and trained talents of people from all backgrounds.

Scotland needs to get the benefit of the diverse talents of everyone, to

be the best. That means there should be opportunity for everyone.

Whatever their background. That is the vision for Scotland to which the

Liberal Democrats will devote the next five years. That's the Liberal

vision. APPLAUSE.

We need real change now so Scotland can be the best again. Because what

we have now is just not good enough for Scotland. On education, once

proud, now slipping down the global rankings according to the OECD, on

climate change, once world-beating targets now failing to meet them

year on year. On policing, once locally accountable, with local

policing by consent, now a shadow of its former self. On mental health,

once a world-leading strategy. Now we don't even have one. And people

are waiting for an age for treatment. Scotland needs change to

be the best, but this SNP Government is refusing to act. Scotland can't

wait for a vague promise of change at some point over the horizon. The

SNP have paralysed on tax. Even when they

SNP have paralysed on tax. Even when -- now have the power in their

hands. Even now when they have the chance. They have chosen to cut

education rather than use the new powers to invest in it. They prefer

to talk about climate change targets than take action to exceed them.

They have failed to fund mental health services even though the

waiting times grow. Froze on the the spot, afraid to do anything in case

it damages the cause of independence. My message today is

that it doesn't have to be like this. We can build a country where

children from all backgrounds get the best chance to succeed. Where

civil liberties are valued and celebrated. Where police are allowed

to do the job d and celebrated. Where police are allowed to do the

job they were trained for - to keep us safe. Where we pass on the

environment to our children in a better state than we inherited it.

Where power is shared across the country rather than hoarded in

Holyrood. Where people with poor mental health are treated as swiftly

as everyone else. I want us to battle to be the best. I want to

live in a country that has ambition to be the best in the world, not

just the best in Britain. We don't have to wait. We can build that

country now. We need to get Scotland fit for the future, to be the best

again. APPLAUSE.

Now a Liberal Democrat speech from Willie Rennie wouldn't be complete

without a reference to Dunfermline. I have a real excuse this time. Ten

years ago this month we won Dunfermline. Yeah, go on! CHEERING

You know I draw inspiration from that wonderful victory. The right

message, the best team, and an outstanding candidate. LAUGHTER

And this year we have outstanding candidate who can win, too. Katy

Gordon, the West of Scotland, Chris Chapman in the South of Scotland,

Alex Hamilton and Halifax. Mike rumbles in the north-east. Angela

McLean in the Highlands. Robert Brown and Paul McGarry. They are

leading figure campaigns to win, to bolster a brilliant team in

Hollywood. She has been quite remarkable, you

are absolutely right to applaud. Her record on human rights and on

justice, and on the police, it was recognised as outstanding at the

Herald politician of the year awards. Liam McArthur led the charge

on the University 's Bill and nursery education, national testing

and so much more. Tavish Scott on the fiscal framework, Smith

commission, farming payments, flights to the Northern Isles, at

his feisty best. And Jim Hume has led the way on mental health, GPs,

and has successfully piloted a new law to ban smoking in cars with

children. Jim, children will have a healthier future thanks to you.

A team that punches well above its weight. If you ever needed shining

examples of why we need even more Liberal Democrat, just observe our

team of parliamentarians in Hollywood. They've achieved more in

the last five years than all the SNP backbencher is put together. Thank

you. Our great Liberal team. APPLAUSE

We have a team in 2016 that punches well above its weight. If you need a

second opinion, just look at the Conservatives. The Scottish

Conservatives have spent half ?1 million writing to people asking for

support to be the opposition. Well, they've wasted their money and your

time. They are no opposition. The SNP and the Tories are two peas in a

pod. The very idea of two parliament at Westminster and Holyrood

dominated by those two is an utterly dismal prospect that won't help

Scotland be the best. The Tories with their harsh welfare policies,

callous treatment of refugees, slashing of renewable energy, and

their massive economic gamble on the future of the European Union. The

SNP, who are only interested in getting independence, and have let

everything slide while they have distracted with that. And worst of

all, both of them are completely united in wanting to keep the

country divided. They need each other, they feed off each other. The

Tories in London help the nationals in Edinburgh with their scare

stories and vice versa, they both want to keep the division is going.

The only parties that you will find who want another argument about

independence in this campaign is the Tories and the SNP. That's what they

want. And it is into that dismal scene on this rancid prospectus,

that is where we must come in. We say, no more. We say, it's time to

move on from the divisions in our country. We will put the division

behind us, we will put the whole of Scotland first. Not just the No

people or the Yes people, we will put conflict behind us, we want the

best for Scotland, a united Scotland is the best for Scotland. APPLAUSE

And they are at it again this week, working together to stop our penny

for education. Mr Fraser told Hollywood he had formed a tax payers

Alliance with the SNP. John Swinney said the Tories were lobby fodder

for the SNP. They laughed and they clapped together, as they cut ?500

million from local councils. The SNP song book used have one song in it,

if we only had the power. But now they do have the powers, they still

won't use them. They have picked up the Tory song book. What have they

got in it? The first cut is the deepest. But the second, third and

fourth aren't bad either. I fought the Lawson and the Lawson won. Same

tunes about taxation is is theft and cuts are a price worth paying, and

colleges, the more we cut, the more they do. John Swinney might even be

singing in the bath like Norman Lamont. I don't regret anything. So,

the Scottish Conservative leader simply making it up about

opposition. This party has not gone soft on independence. But, unlike

her, we accept the result of the referendum, and we are moving on.

She's determined to open up, for our own benefit, the deep wounds the

campaign caused. The Tories just do not care. They should stick that on

their postcard and apologise to the people of Scotland. APPLAUSE

Tomorrow, we have a chance to agree that at every election in the future

we will have a team of candidates that looks more like our diverse

Scotland than we have ever done before. We debate what targets we

set for ourselves for future parliamentary selections. For 20

years, 20 years, I've watched only a handful of women MPs and MSP 's get

elected under our banner. It is not good enough. For this Progressive

party. With the support of people, who were previously opposed to the

measures in the motion, we have a package for change. If you back my

motion tomorrow, you will send a powerful signal to liberal minded

women across Scotland that we are serious about change and they are

welcome in our party. I want to win again. To win again we need to be

more like the people we seek to represent. To win, we need to

change. I'm Askin you to come with me and back my motion. -- I'm asking

you. For Scotland to be the best again,

we need the best education in the world again. So ECD tells us we're

slipping down the international standing on education. This

government has slashed 152,000 places from colleges. It has cut

school budgets, too. It can't even get more than 7% of two-year-olds

into nursery classes. With the investment of 1p on income tax, we

can secure a ?475 million return. You know our investment, the penny

for education, will be spent on expanding nursery education,

implementing a pupil premium, stopping cuts to schools, and

repairing cuts to colleges. Those are our four priorities for children

and young people. Today I can announce the details of what that

funding will do, so people know what they will get for their winning

investment. We will invest ?170 million in our schools with a pupil

premium. This will aid directly to schools to raise attainment every

year. -- this will be paid. It'll be worth ?1400 for every pupil who need

extra support at primary, wherever they live in the country. And ?900

for every secondary pupil from a disadvantaged back down. Our pupil

premium will put money into every classroom. Every school gets money

for children from poorer backgrounds. And look at what it

might mean. A primary school could get ?43,000 more. In Dunoon,

Woodhill and Bishop bricks, East Craigs in Edinburgh, Castle Hill in

Cooper, Dingwall, I mouse, all of them, could get more than ?60,000.

It's enough for more teachers, one-to-one help, homework clubs, or

extra equipment. Secondary schools will benefit, too. Open would get

another ?170,000. Wick 114,000. People's ?94,000. -- Tim two. That

is how you close the attainment gap. Backing up your words with actions.

-- Peebles. You don't have to imagine. Because when Liberal

Democrat support this in in England, it closed the attainment gap by five

percentage points in just three years. It raised attainment for

everyone. Raising attainment, raising productivity, schools giving

every child the best chance in life, that's the Liberal Democrat

commitment on education. APPLAUSE And I make a direct appeal to people

who supported Labour but are not impressed by the leadership of

Jeremy Corbyn. You can back our progressive plans in me to make your

voice heard with us. Liberal Democrats are bighearted,

open-minded, outward looking, caring, and compassionate. We for

the aspirational, with a social conscience. We care about the people

next door, across the world, or in the future. At our heart, Liberal

Democrats want every individual to achieve their potential. We stand

with the weak against the strong, we will use the power of government to

tackle the social and economic injustices that limit freedom. We

say power is safer when it is shared and will trust communities and

individuals with the power to control their lives. And the right

to participate in their democracy. We are trustees of the world and our

society and must pass on a sustainable legacy, which will

benefit future generations. To be the best, we need the best health

care. We need to reverse the decline in the NHS. That's why we support a

step change in mental health services. The recruitment of more

GPs and better social care. To be the best comedy planet must be

protected, so we need to meet Scotland's climate change targets,

it's why we support action on climate change including warmer

homes, better public transport, and stopping opencast coal. To be the

best, our civil liberties must be guaranteed. There will be an

excessive use of stop and search or and intrusive super ID database. To

be the best we need to reflect the rich diversity of the country, so we

must bring an end to string in power from local communities and hoarding

it in Hollywood. That is why we support a reform programme that

includes power, transferred to local communities, and empowering police,

nurses, doctors and teachers, to do their job. To be the best, we need a

strong economy. Fair tax and good public services. That's why we

support continued membership of the European Union. A reformed tax

system that makes work break and investment in good public services.

And finally, to be the best, we will move on from the Independence debate

to bring unity, dealing the divisions of the referendum. We all

need to move on to bring the country together to be the best again.

APPLAUSE We will use this election campaign

to show liberal minded people the true value of liberal-minded members

of the Scottish Parliament. We will remind people from where we come.

Joe Grimmond, David Steel, Charles Kennedy, Ming Campbell, Ray Michie,

Jim Wallace, inspirational people of outstanding calibre. We will tell

them l them what we have done - invented the NHS and the welfare

state, opposed the Iraq war, fought and won free tuition, free personal

care, free dental and eye checks in Scotland, tax cuts for workers and a

growing chi. Of course our opponents will point to the mistakes, but

we'll stand proud on our achievements and we will tell people

where we are going. To be the best again, we will lift Scotland up from

the divisions of the referendum and start winning again. Scotland is a

country of winners, so we can have the best healthcare. So we can enjoy

the freedom that comes with our deep-rooted civil liberties, so we

can celebrate meeting our change targets and we can once again have

the best education in the world. We can be the best again if we are

bold, bright, Liberal and green. If you want change, if you want things

to be better, if you want to get Scotland fit for the future. If you

want Scotland to be the best again, then back the Liberal Democrats.

APPLAUSE. STUDIO: The Scottish Liberal

Democrat leader Willie Rennie receiving the applause at the

Assembly rooms in Edinburgh as he ends his keynote spring conference

speech. He wanted a new approach to mental health, and spoke about

wanting Scotland to be the best again. He said he had a team in

Holyrood that punched above its weight. He called the SNP and

Conservatives two peas in a pod, a rancid prospect us as he described

it, who wanted to keep the country divided. He spoke about the penny

for education, and the pupil premium, and called for

disillusioned Labour supporters to ditch Jeremy Corbyn and come over to

his party. That's his receiving the applause at the Assembly rooms.

Professor John Curtice is still with me. What did you make of that

speech? I think it gave a fairly clear indication of how Willie

Rennie is hoping to advance his party's cause at the beginning of

May. It was very noticeable. There were of course attacks on the SNP

Scottish Government. Would expect any opposition Government to do

that. But there were strong attacks on Conservatives, and Mr Rennie

trying to say to voters we might have been in coalition with the

Conservatives for five years, but we don't agree with them. We think they

are divisive. They are wanting to raise the constitutional issue yet

again, et cetera, trying to put distance between his party and the

former coalition partners. Contrarily, mentioned of the Labour

Party were noticeable by their absence rather than their presence.

There was a reference to, if you don't like Jeremy Corbyn but you

regard yourself as progressive, slightly left of centre, maybe you

want to come back to the Liberal Democrats. That was reinforced by

coming up with this standard Liberal Democrat themes: Education, but also

diversity, civil liberties, the environment. More devolution,

particularly in the area of policing. So you can see that in a

sense he's trying to say to those soft liberal-Labour voters, perhaps

many of whom voted for the Liberal Democrats in 2010 or 2007 but who

went to the Labour Party because of their distaste by some of the

decisions made by the UK coalition, you can now come back. But don't

like Jeremy Corbyn, we don't like the Tories, were you coming back to

you with a message you will find much more palatable. And key policy,

the pupil premium. An interesting point he made about closing the

attainment gap in England by 5 #3ers. Ap

attainment gap in England by 5 #3ers. -- by 5%. The principal

purpose on which he wants to spend his penny on income tax is a policy

that's been pursued in England. He wants Scotland to be the best but

apparently it is going be the best by imitating something going on in

England. He quoted information that the Department for Education south

of the borderer quoted. The truth is that the pupil premium has only been

in operation in England for three-and-a-half years. We won't

know for 30 years, assuming the policy lasts that long, with whether

it has been successful in reducing the attainment gap. Both Willie

Rennie and Nicola Sturgeon are focusing on this issue. We may all

say, power to their elbow, but improving the quality of education,

reducing the attainment gap, the benefits from that, the including

the benefits for Mr Rennie's penny on income tax are going to be a very

long way down the track. Probably when neither Ms Sturgeon nor Mr

Rennie are in the Scottish Parliament. John, thank you. Brian

Taylor joins us hotfoot from the conference hall. What did you make

of it? Intriguing speech. I listened to it in the hall, I like to see the

reaction from the conference, and they liked the stuff on the penny

for education. But I agree with Professor John Curtice about them

liking that attack on the Conservatives. Attacking an

incumbent Government in Holyrood when you are about to face a

Holyrood election is no great surprise. But trying to link them

with the Conservatives I think frankly that's going to be a hard

sell. It was an intriguing attempt that Willie Rennie was making. To

discuss that I'm delighted to welcome Tavish Scott, the MSP for

Shetland. Let's go on that penny for education. You plainly believe

that's something that's beginning to get attraction with the voters if I

think people are seeing the impact on the schools across Scotland at

this time. It has been going on for some years now. We are giving them

an alternative to the cuts that the SNP are imposing on Scotland. 500

million-ish. That's having an impact now in classrooms the length and

breadth of the country. We are saying look, if you put some money

into income tax, that money that we want to raise will just go into

schools, nowhere else. That's how important it is. What difference

would it make? Willie Rennie listed a pile of schools, unaccountably

they were in areas where you are seeking support. I can't think how

that came about. 40,000, 50,000, what difference can that make to one

school? Willie Rennie made a strong point, that pupil premium that was

started in England and particularly well done in Wales has made exactly

that improvement. It has raised attainment by 5 percentage points.

So this is a policy that works in different parts of the country. We

don't tell teachers what to do. We give them options as to how best

they challenge children from tougher backgrounds in improving their

chances for the future. It is about schools making the right decisions.

That's why our policy should be that way around. What about people on

relatively low earnings. They would be pay more across all of the rates.

The tax thresholds the Liberal Democrats raised when they were in

the UK Government helped people on low income tax. People like you or

me Brian or Nicola Sturgeon would pay more tax. A lot more tax than

someone on low earnings. This argument needs to be seen in terms

of how much tax people actually pay rather than the bogged down argument

about the percentage. What's important here is yes everyone will

contribute a little bit more and the low end very little more, but what

should happen is that we need to deal with those cuts the SNP are

imposing, we are offering that choice. You say it is only a tiny

wee bit of a tax increase, but it is an increase in taxation nonelings.

And by definition that's a disincentive to economic or company

growth. The people who are struggling at the moment because

there aren't classroom numbers their schools, they'll get the help that

Willie Rennie illustrated in his speech. Illustrated in his speech.

That's a challenge - I understand how people don't like paying more

tax, but when you see the cuts that are happening around Scotland, I

think most level-headed Scots will say, well, that's a choice we are

prepared to make. We are giving them that opportunity. Another big

section of Mr Rennie's speech drew warm applause from the audience,

trying to make equalisation between the SNP and the Conservatives, two

peas in a pod he called them. But that's not true is it? They take a

different stance on the economy and utterly different on the union. But

they love each other don't they? They? The grievance, I complain

about how the SNP behave, is coming back the other way. They both sit

together. If you take the Fiscal Commission discusses this week in

Parliament where the Scottish Government have secured a level

playing field in terms of money over the next five years, we see a

grievance that's put off for five years' time. That's not good for

Scotland never mind the UK. Our concern as a party is that the

Tories and the SNP work together in exactly the way we have seen this

week in the Fiscal Commission, but they store up another row for five

years' time. That suits both parties But they would say they weren't

working together but negotiating to reach a bargain in the interests of

the people of Scotland. On Wednesday and the budget you guys and the

Labour Party were ready to say there you are, the Tories and the SNP

together. Blow me, the Tories voted against the budget and voted with

you. They voted against the budget, but do you remember the speeches

where they said John Swinney is the best Tory Chancellor we've never

had. They were taking saying that satirically to undermine, not

support him. But they believe that no tax increases is the Tory

position as well. Ultimately, to use your word, voted with the Labour

Party and with the Liberal Democrats against the SNP What they did do was

vote against the tax increases we are proposing. They voted for the

cuts to public services which will mean that the kind of damage this

schools we've just been discussing. Let's turn to local taxation. It was

discussed at conference this morning, party policy forever and

day during the period you were leader and prior to that and since

has been a local income tax. The party today said they certainty

certain about the alternative but you've got to move towards a

property based tax. There is some merit in the property based tax

approach. I always thought the local income tax at least had the

advantages of being clean and precise. People understood it at its

most raw. That has advantages. So you regret the decision? Understand

the party is consulting on this. We've had this situation for nine

years where local government have no ability to do anything in terms of

raising money and being accountable for that principle. I think whatever

we do, we've got to make sure that local councillors in whatever part

of Scotland have some responsibility as well as Edinburgh. You are saying

don't ditch income tax too readily? I want the alternative to work, in

terms of local accountability. That would be my principle that I would

asupply strongly. The fracking, unconventional oil and gas extravjts

it was a bit of a confusing vote, but you've voted as Liberal

Democrats to allow the licensing of fracking to go ahead. I think what

was important about that is people are concerned about carbon targets.

Carbon emission targets. They don't want to see the situation made worse

in Scotland. I'm a little concerned that not too many delegates

understood that when voting today. We'll have to reflect on what was

said. I think the science and the evidence around any change to a

position on encouraging or allowing this form of technology to advance

has to be considered at the utmost point. You are not saying your

conference colleagues are too dumb to understand it are you? Not at

all. We just need to be career. We just need to be clear. My concern

about the union referendum is that the First Minister of Scotland is

talking up defeat because the SNP's best interests of a second vote on

Scottish independence is for the UK as a whole to pull out of Europe. If

that happens and I hope it does not, then I think us in the Northern

Isles wants to look at what our future is, not just the folk in

Edinburgh. Tavish Scott, thank you for joining me at the wonderful

Assembly rooms in Edinburgh. Edinburgh. The right lights from the

chandeliers here are pretty impressive. Thank you Brian. As we

heard earlier delegates agreed to campaign to have the current

moratorium on fracking lifted. Just before Christmas, our First Minister

headed across to the global climate change talks in Paris bothingta

Scotland was leading the world. Nicola Sturgeon said that the

rhetoric on the environment should be backed up by meaningful action.

Who could disagree with that? We were told that climate change would

be embedded into the next Scottish Government budget. Well, sure enough

four days later it certainly was embedded, because SNP Ministers

announced that spending on tackling climate change would be cut by ?50

million. That's 10% of the budget. At no time in this week's budget

debates in Parliament did the world environment cross ministerial lips.

Nor in truth did Air Passenger Duty. Let me talk about the politics of

priorities. As Willie Rennie has rightly made

clear both in parliament and on the radio this morning, we are about

protecting schools from the ?500 million cuts being imposed on local

government by the SMB in the current financial year. So along with our

tax proposals we cannot see how cutting EBD at a cost of ?250

million helps our plans to support Scotland's schools. That income from

EPD and other tax sources means less money for Scotland's public

services. EPD is without question and environmental and economic

argument of the Scottish budget is being cut because the SNP refused to

use the tax powers they have. If anybody plans to cut EPD they have

to explain to parents, pupils and teachers where the money will come

from. That is the harsh reality of Scotland's financial position, it's

about the politics of choice. Our approach to climate change revolves

around a Liberal Democrat meant to green power, Scotland's renewables

industry must be the bedrock of energy production. Here the Scottish

Government has done good things, I recognise Fergus Ewing's personal

commitment to renewables and indeed, to wind farms in the every is not

universally popular with hill walkers or other campaigning groups.

Liberal Democrats don't agree with SMP environment budget cuts,

Scotland is not being helped on renewables, or indeed in tackling

climate change, by the Tories. The Tories are now into one of their

regular wars over Europe. What the Euro sceptics must of course is that

Europe can be a force for environmental good. European action

has reduced industrial sources of air and water pollution, the EU has

sought to protect wildlife and wild places through the birds and

habitats directive. We are home to more than 500,000 wild bird species

and a third of those are currently not in good conservation status,

that's white European action matters. The European Union has a

new way to review industrial chemical use and force the

withdrawal of many toxic substances from use by any standards, measures

that matter to any of us no matter where we live. There is still much

more to be done in Scotland. In this motion today we propose real action

on one of the national scandals that must be addressed. It's wrong, as

your debate has just heard, that so many Scots in fuel poverty, as Liam

McArthur and others have observed in the league table of fuel poverty

Orkney has overtaken the Western Isles as the area with the highest

level of fuel poverty. No one should have to make that choice between

eating and heating because they cannot afford both. Today,

Conference, we make the environmental case, we've done so in

the past, we will do so again today and do so into the next Parliament.

Today is a starting point for a campaign on an environment that

badly needs to be made. Few others are making it, it's the Liberal

Democrats turn to make exactly that. APPLAUSE

Hands up who has read the report of the independent expert scientific

panel on the unconventional oil and gas... LAUGHTER

Great. I have, it's pretty dry. But it's also really quite reassuring.

It suggests we can extract these unconventional reserves safely if we

regulate the industry inappropriately. -- appropriately.

It implies the UK is a place where that is the norm. The level of

public scrutiny that will likely exist if fracking were to be

committed would make it highly likely that companies would take a

better safe than sorry approach. It's a thorough and reassuring

document that puts to rest some of the misinformation that has been

circulating about the technology. So for some it's surprising the

Scottish Government decided more evidence was needed. I would far

rather support Scottish jobs and reduce the environmental impact of

transport by burning Scottish gas to heat my home. Rather than relying on

states like Russia and Saudi Arabia. The less we rely on them the more we

can persuade our leaders to criticise them. Better policy than

bowing down before activists and banning our continuing moratorium on

fracking would be to lift the central government ban, regulate it

appropriately and link the tax gain from any jobs or a manufacturing

boom to a booming investment in renewables research and development.

If this can be done, maybe we can ensure we don't need gas from

fracking in our homes, it can become a petrochemical feedstock instead

and we can play our part in bringing about technological solutions to

global warning. Pleads support the amendment and the otherwise

excellent motion, thank you. On a purely logical basis, firstly, it

seems ridiculous to reverse this particular policy that we have quite

so quickly. I'm afraid I don't swallow the facts scientific

evidence says it's absolutely crystal clear there is no problem

with fracking. There is a place here for principles and also some kind of

logical and rational thinking. I think we're crystal clear as a

party, we support developing our renewable industry which gives

Scotland a great potential future. Why put energy into other which fix

technologies that first of all break the fundamental principle of

pursuing more use of fossil fuels? Which we know long-term is a

complete disaster. We also note it has not been plain sailing in

America anyway. We know it makes money fast, but I think, what

happened to the whole principle of saving energy? Ventilating all our

homes? I think this is a backward step, muddled thinking, it presents

the Liberal Democrats as being muddled if we reverse this all like

that. I'm totally against that amendment and I hope you will vote

to reject it, thank you. Conference, climate change is real, we've just

come out of the hottest, wettest winter on record, battered by

storms, with communities across Scotland blighted by flooding. Human

society is on a clear path towards an irreversible rise in global

temperatures, a rise that could easily go well above the 2 degrees

for UN considers just about acceptable. This will lead to a rise

in sea levels, the desertification of huge areas, it lead to conflict

over resources. There are those who will point to the correct Syrian

civil war and indicate that its roots lie in conflict over

resources, access to clean water. The same could be said similar

conflict in Sudan and Darfur war. It's not just a little box, a green

box we can put to one side and tick as environmentalism, this is about

every aspect of our lives. The motion before you today goes a long

way towards solid action that will help play Scotland's part in

tackling climate change and sustaining nature. Some of the

debate from earlier today. Back to the Assembly Rooms where Brian has

gathered some guests. In the vote on that unconventional

extraction debate, the party voted to lift the moratorium slightly, to

the chagrin of the party. These things happen sometimes. I'm joined

by three delegates, thank you. What do you make on that fracking wrote?

I think it's important we have this democratic discussion in our party.

I think it was a good thing they brought the amendment and we were

able to consider it, I agreed with the amendment myself. I think it's

important we look at each individual case on its merits rather than

having a blanket moratorium. I mean I think things should be considered

on their merits. It's not an area I have strong views on either way,

obviously in the Highlanders there isn't a lot of opportunity for

fracking, so it's not top of my agenda. Certainly not a green light

on fracking, still opportunity for us to discuss it further. Our

Conference will debate this further, later within the Conference. We'll

have an opportunity to get more opinions on fracking. It's not a

green light, certainly. Thanks for that. I thought I would erase it.

Quite a contentious vote. Let's look at Willie Rennie's speech. The penny

for education, is it something you think will be positive on the

doorsteps? Definitely. What we'd been saying is young people have

been affected by college cuts and our education system is hindering

young people's life opportunities. It's time to stand up and make a

radical decision to fund the future of Scotland's young people. I feel

it's a really important step forward and a great thing the party is

doing. Ministers say full-time places at colleges have been

protected and continue to be protected indeed they've increased.

I would say people like my mother benefited from part-time college

that fitted in around their work plans. The college system is a

Cinderella service. Cuts are damaging to the most disadvantaged

people in society who use the service to change their lives. It's

all fine and well does it, but we've seen massive place cups and they

can't deny it and can't deny it has caused problems. I can see how you

sold the message about additional expenditure on education, schools,

colleges, how do you sell the message about paying more in tax?

Tax in terms of the 1p tax? Yes. I think people recognise that not only

income tax but also the council tax died of things. As a counsellor we

did surveys in the Highlands and it showed people were prepared to pay

extra. People always say that in surveys, what they mean is they want

somebody else to pay more in tax. Not only for themselves, for the

benefit they would get, but people have started to read it nice there

rather is who are disadvantaged. It goes back to college places as well.

I come from a family where I was the first person who went to university,

my father had to do night school, he didn't even have the college option.

If we're going to improve people's lot in society and in life, we have

to look at all the areas. Tax and education. A balance to be struck on

the offer and the cost? It's an investment, Willie was clear on how

that would affect different communities. South Lanarkshire,

?300,000 for one academy. It's an investment, in schools, something

people will be able to see and they can see the benefits locally to

every person. What we're asking people is to join us in making that

investment in future lives of our Jordan and young people. You are

levying a higher level of taxation, if you get your way, and by 2017,

across all of the bands, not just targeting the well-paid, but an

increased income tax imposition upon those earning the least? Absolutely,

it would still be fairer than any council tax increase in that it's

more progressive. Don't forget the Liberal Democrats in the last

government in Westminster did increase the tax rational to 11 and

a half thousand, so it's certainly more progressive than any of the

other suggestions being made by other parties. It gives back into

the communities. I think that's right, we're focusing on education,

one particular area, it means people understand where their money is

going, it's not just a blanket. People can see what's likely to

happen and will improve the future. You say they can see where their

money is going, might they not be concerned it is frittered, not spent

on productive projects? We have to demonstrate that. In terms of the

pupil premium, it's pretty clear that is going to areas to do

particular things that improve the particular situations of our

children. I completely concur with that, in the people premium you can

see a real difference in local areas where we plummeted it in government

in England and Wales. Down south. You have these projects where you

can make a concrete difference in local areas, they can see it going

into their local schools, that's how you convince people it is an

investment you need to make for the future of our own children. Another

topic racer Conference committee debate on local taxation, quite a

big decision, the party turned its face generally against local income

tax in favour, without specifying income of a property tax approach.

What do you make of that? I had to do other things when the session was

ongoing, it's a discussion on going, what we need to have. In principle I

would be happy to back that, it's not my specialist subject, not

something I'm particularly knowledgeable about but if we can

make a progressive method of taxation that brings in the money we

need for public services, it is a good way forward. Are we talking

about council tax? There was tax of land value taxation but talk it

would be taking too long to bring in. There were four basic options.

It's more complicated than that, it's different in different parts of

the country. I think focusing on land and all property is the way to

go. People need to know what you are going to be proposing when they go

to the ballot boxes. As with all these things when they are

complicated it takes awhile to move forward the final conclusion. We've

had a steer today, no more than a steer, the policy which, we need to

take that back and prepare something else. Let's remember, let's not make

it too complicated. The point was made people suggesting a myriad

range of ways... Some others were going, hang on a second, this

actually has to be committed by people on the ground. Let's not

forget we've spent 20 years plus in Scotland debating exactly this issue

on tax reform. So far, none of the parties have come up with something

significantly fairer. What we've said is but there's a clear

indication we will try and do that. And come back to the table with a

proposition to voters in our manifesto that addresses some of

these issues and costs. You are right, cost is a big issue. It'll be

in the manifesto, voters who go into the polling stations in May will

know what the Liberal Democrat proposal is on local taxation. We

will then next week in the Scottish Government what the SNP approach is.

Today's vote is an indication from our party that this is the

direction, it is not a binding vote by in means. But yes we'll have

proposals in our manifesto that we'll take to voters. Hannah, it

hasn't been easy of late, the last few years, to be a Liberal Democrat.

We've had a bit of a kicking at the hands of the electorate. Do you

believe you can turn that round, and, if, so how? I think the

important thing now is to get out the positive measures that nt thing

now is to get out the positive measures that Willie has given us -

that we need change in this country, that we can be winners again. I've

seen this in my local area, with we've got loads of young people

coming into the party, because they've been inspired by this need

for positive change for reform in Scotland, for improving our public

services. We've had so many new members doing fantastic work in

their local communities over the last few months. Same question Jean,

can you do it, and, if so, how? I did, didn't I? Good answer. One

small area, one ward, but it's the start of what I hope will achieve

more in May. With what in the In terms of particular targets, we

would like to win a Highland representation again. I used to live

in the Western Isles and was incredibly frustrated at not having

any Lib Dem support. So either on the list or in one or two

constituencies, I would be happy. Paul? His speech offered a pitch to

voters that the SNP and the stories are still fighting the

constitutional question, Labour, we are not sure. But the Liberal

Democrats have a targeted message to voters. We'll be education, health

service, mental health. The party that's focused 100% on making

Scotland great, fit for the future, is the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

That was Willie's pitch today. That's the message we are bringing

the voters. I think that's attractive, is it not? Ot only

Scotland, but the local areas. In the Highlands it's the Highlands.

Thank you all three. With that back to the studio. Brian, thank you. We

haven't mention to do so Liberal Democrats approach to drugs and

drugs policy. That was always one of their greatest hits to make them

stand out in the crowd. They didn't do much about nit Government. What

exactly are they proposing now? We need to bear in mind that the policy

of the legalisation of drugs is... And still will be when the Scotland

Bill goes through. It has been an issue the party at a UK level has

been debating for some time. It has never formally come out in favour of

legalising cannabis, but Nick Clegg says as far as soft drugs like

cannabis is concerned, we are losing the war and it doesn't make sense to

regard them as criminal. Willie Rennie over the weekend seemed as

though he was going to suggest that at least north of the border,

although Scotland isn't responsible for the law, but it is for

enforcement, perhaps those found in possession of small amounts of

cannabis wouldn't necessarily be prosecuted. A movement away from

trying to enforce the law, a shift towards treatment. We haven't heard

a great deal more about it yet, but this is an area where the Liberal

Democrats on the one hand have perhaps always been concerned about.

Many people feeling that being soft on drugs is just not right. Others

saying that the current law is not realistic. Public opinion I think in

truth is heavily divided on this subject, but probably given the kind

of people usely vote Liberal Democrat, if they were to move

towards legalisation, it wouldn't necessarily be a vote loser for

them. Willie Rennie today was saying for Class A drugs such as cocaine or

her win, people could face the choice of treatment or a penalty. I

suppose dealers would still be targeted under the current

regulations. Sure, that's perfectly clear. I think the arguments of

those who are in favour of a measure of legalisation is that you help the

reduce the extent to which deal verse a potential role to place,

because you make it easier for people to gain access to it. But it

is clearly a controversial subject. Moving on to another subject but

staying with the law. It was how Willie Rennie and the party

leadership have dealt with Alistair Carmichael. He won that court case,

but he had to pay the fees. I suppose Willie Rennie felt he had

been dealt with properly that way. He's been heavily criticised for not

taking a stronger approach. That's certainly true. I think there is

though doubt that Mr Carmichael's actions and the fact he was

responsible or had authorised the leak of what was clearly a dubious

memo about what had been said by Nicola Sturgeon to the French

Ambassador, that was an embarrassment to the party. Although

it was true that Mr Carmichael, the court did not suggest he should be

removed as an MP, there were three arguments put forward. The

petitioners won two of them. It was only on the third that Mr Carmichael

survived. The court was not willing to give judgment on Mr Carmichael's

costs against the plaintiff. The difficulty is, is you are left with

your one and only MP, it is not exactly the case that the party is

going to say, Mr Car Mike em, we think you should resign. They are

not going to say, we keep our distance from him and want to

withdraw the whip. They don't have that luxury of course. Perhaps if

they said, we do as a party accept that that's the case, it might have

an easier rather than trying to say the court didn't suggest he needed

to be removed as an MP and we want to move on. Maybe something to say,

he got it wrong, he accepts he got it wrong, he is paying the penalty

financially and we accept that's the sort of thing politicians shouldn't

do in future. John, thank you. A short while ago at conference

delegates supported a motion which called for devolution of powers to

be considered for island communities. Here's a taste of what

was said, starting with the ubiquitous Tavish Scott. Islanders

are fed one a one size fits all approach to public services which

doesn't work. The SNP Government want to run everything from the

central belt. They used to be considered to be a competent

Government, but try telling that to island crofters or farmers. They

were promised Common Agricultural Policy payments by the end of

January. For most that has not happened. Crofters have lost trust

in their Government. Promises to deliver have simply not been met. So

if the UK does withdraw from the EU and the SNP force a second

independence referendum, which is their position, Shetland should have

the right to decide where we want to be. Some in my party of the world

believe that should be back to Norway. But that might be a stretch

too far. At the very least we want a chance to explore an opt out of our

own. On May 5th Shetland can vote for rule from Edinburgh or debate

the island's interests. The SNP will not give us that. After nine years

of nationalist Government, the best they offer is more jam tomorrow in

the hope that we'll just keep quiet. Well, I know Shetland won't keep

quiet and nor will it on these issues. We need to pass power to

island communities. Islanders know best how to address their issues. I

sat on the Smith Commission with Mike Moore and I argued as he did

for the management of the seabed to be not just devolved to Edinburgh

but passed to island control. Such arrangements should happen for other

islands too as they best see fit. This is unfinished business for me.

It is an islands plan and I ask today that that conference endorses

that. APPLAUSE. The reality is that they

have a much wider role than councils do here. Just to give you a flavour

of this. I've got some of the headlines from Orkney island's

councils portfolio. We own a Cathedral, a network of airfields

which have their own Fire Service, a radar network. We run all the

infrastructure for the largest cruise tourism industry in the UK.

We have a University campus, a portfolio with archaeological

buildings and historic sites which any organisation would be envious

of. Of. We've talked about devolving powers, but that's not just a

theoretical or a constitutional exercise for shuffling between one

set of politicians and another. There's real benefits that you can

see when that happens. The concept of a cultural empowerment and public

services sound positive. However, simply adopting this philosophy

assumes that those being empowered are highly personally accountable.

I've worked this the public sector and I've been a public partner in

the NHS. At times I've been mildly amused and at times horrified by

what I've witnessed in departments that already have empowerment

without accountability. I note the facts presented in the debate as the

basis on which some of this debate is founded. Lack of teaching staff

in the North East isn't primarily down to empowerment. A survey by the

General Teaching Council for Scotland found that only one newly

qualified teacher in four found a full-time permanent teaching job

after completing their induction year There is oversupply in the

central belt versus more rural areas. The issues are likely to be

one of willingness to work in a rural area rather than one of

empowerment. The Police Scotland staffing such, a 50% return rate,

significantly high for a public sector organisation, doesn't have

empowerment in the top five issues the work worse would like to see

improved. I think it would be difficult to push empowerment when a

survey didn't ask for it. I want to talk about education and the impact

the Scottish Government has had. I left school quite a number of years

ago now, perhaps not how I look, but it was at least eight years ago. I

sat sadly left with not a lot of qualifications, a couple of standard

and maybe a higher, a C. A music maybe. Sadly that was because of the

way the school ran. It was trying to put square pegs through a round

hole. It was a results driven school, how they were going to do,

because they were trying to play the league tables. When people like me

who didn't fit in, with learning difficulties and couldn't edge the

way they wanted things to happen were forced out of the school at a

young age, because we were going to bring down the average grades.

That's the product that we'll get from standardised testing. A move

back to league tables and people like me will be left behind. I

managed to turn it around. I went to work for a couple of years and went

to college. I did high Highers, went to uni and I'm happy with that. My

school deserves no credit for how I am doing now. It is not because I

went to one of the best state schools, I had to take that

initiative myself. My school left me behind. That's the product of

standardisation, a product of one size fits all schooling and one size

fits all treatment of public sector workers. The reason I asked you to

vote for this motion is there are negative impacts not just on the

people that the public sector workers but the people that they

work for. I'm asking you to vote to support public sector workers to

make their job easier to help the people that they are there to work

for. It wouldn't be a party conference without its press pack.

Brian Taylor has a couple of members there now. Brian? Stars of the press

echelons. Welcome both. Let's take Willie Rennie's speech, the big

message of a penny for education. It is offering spending but threatening

tax. How do you think he is getting that balance Lindsey? He's obviously

done what Labour would do, put a penny on income tax. He's going to

use that money for education and policies, such as a pupil premium,

which follows pupils from the poorest parts of Scotland in a bid

to driver up the attainment gap. We knowed that cation and the

attainment gap is one of the biggest issues in Scotland at the moment. It

is probably as much as the Liberal Democrats are producing vote winners

with it is perhaps a vote winner for them. Magnus? I think they are going

to explain it very clearly in terms of the education policies that they

want to pursue with the ?500 million that will be raised by putting a

penny on income tax. They are going to talk about using the progressive

powers of income tax to benefit education. I think in that way they

are hoping to take the sting out of what will be quite an unpopular

decision to increase people's tax. It doesn't happen immediately. The

decision for 16-17 had been taken. He said if the earliest opportunity

and it's the principle that matters. Yes, Bisley by the time he can bring

this in in 17-18, we should have the full raft of income tax powers we

are getting through the Scotland Bill and fiscal framework. It'll be

interesting is the Willie shifts his position on income tax. -- it'll be

interesting to see. You would have thought the Lib Dems would be

looking at something which could be termed more progressive that might

hit high earners slightly harder and do something more for the lower

earners. Tax is never popular, is it? No, but they are very keen to be

talking about the principle of tax, keen to be drawing a contrast with

the SNP, who they say are copying George Osborne's tax rates. They are

certainly wary about Labour's similar increase in income tax

policy. Labour, you will remember, have tried to mitigate the rise for

those on lower incomes by having a little bit of a rebate. It has led

down a cul-de-sac with the SNP, Rowling about how workable it is.

Liberal Democrats are keen to keep this very simple and talk about

raising tax to pay for education, keep it simple. Sticking with you on

the point you raised, the attempt by Willie Rennie to conflate the SNP

and the Conservatives. I was teasing Tavish Scott on that ground pointing

out Conservatives voted with the Liberal Democrats on the budget, and

labour, but he has a message about... He called them two peas in

a pod. Is it going to sell? Peas in a pod was the sound bite he wanted

us all to take from his speech in the Conference hall. His message to

Ruth Davidson is simple, stop talking about the referendum because

it's playing into the SNP's hands. I suspect he wants with Davidson to

stop talking about the referendum because it also damaging the Liberal

Democrats. It's not so long since Willie Rennie was one of those MSP

's who was most gung ho about carrying on fighting the referendum.

-- MSPs. On this point about completing the SNP and Tories? The

reason he wants with Davidson to stop talking about the referendum is

she's making a very good pitch for being the party of the union, it's

been her direct message, if you voted No, vote Tory, we are the

party for you. He doesn't want that. She tries to say she's not just a

party of the union, the party of the union. When you have labour

completely split on what on earth it's doing with the independence

vote. Perhaps it's not working particularly well for Willie Rennie

either, he would like Ruth to stop talking about it. The Liberals might

be squeezed out, that is their fear when it comes to that. Let's stick

with prospects for the party. What they are trying to say here is the

memories of the coalition with the Conservatives are beginning to fade

and they are beginning to offer a distinctive pitch with the penny for

education, what do you make of that? I think you are right, the word

being used when I was talking to people was muted, the

disillusionment people felt about Nick Clegg's coalition with David

Cameron. But it's still a factor. This Conference does look like a

glorified village fete, albeit a very posh one with these lovely

chandeliers behind us, but it's not a big Conference, the Lib Dems are

going... You have an allotment, you would be at home with a village

fete, displaying your leeks with your prize vegetables. No

chandeliers in our village hall. No, I think from what I'm taking up, the

Liberal Democrats, privately, would be very happy to come out of this

election with the five MSP they have at the moment. There was a lot of

talk in the speech about the great candidates they have. Their