13/04/2013 Sinn Fein Party Conference

Hello and welcome to the programmes. Today we have live coverage from

the Sinn Fein Ardeche which is taking place in Castlebar in County

Mayo. With me is Professor Rick Wilford and Queen's University and

in Castlebar for us, our political editor, Mark Devenport. An

interesting venue first of all? First of all, good afternoon, I

should say. We're here in the Royal Theatre in a Castlebar. It is a

venue, Sinn Fein have moved their Ard Fheis from a Dublin to Belfast

and last year we were in Killarney. They brought about 2000 people with

them to the venue here. They started last night and Martin Rogan

has made the first of a couple of speeches. He was talking about

being proud of his Irish identity and wanting people to be more

straightforward enough not challenging him on that. I should

say that later in the course of the Ardeche, there is a vote on a

motion calling for Alex Attwood to rename the Royal Exchange Shopping

Centre in north Belfast. It will be interesting if I pass that motion

in the Royal Theatre here! Not much gets past you, it is of course the

afternoon, not the morning. Tell me, is this a drive on the part of Sinn

Fein to go after the rock boat in the south because back in the day,

these conferences used to be focused on the mansion house in

Dublin? Yes, it is part of the emphasis that they are an all

Ireland party, they will move things around. At conferences, you

do tend to get a certain amount of investment coming into the area.

People staying on to see the sights and spending money in hotels so

they have decided they will move it around, not just bringing it up to

Belfast from Dublin and back again, they are pushing it around again.

Also, they will be pushing -- touching on some local issues such

as oil and gas reserves and the exploitation all feature, given

that we have had some controversy over that issued here in County

Mayo. No doubt next year somewhere else in Ireland will get its turn.

Just to be clear, but the big leader's speech actually happened

outside our time, it is later this evening? Yes, Gerry Adams will be

speaking later on this evening. We have a special programme where we

we'll we'll be bringing the speech to viewers tomorrow. He happens

eight because he is clashing with Rory McIlory, that is a clash of

the giants, isn't it! On this one occasion, the golfers have won out

so Sinn Fein will have to hold on. I am actually joined by one of the

delegates here, Conor Murphy of Sinn Fein. We're waiting for Mary

Lou McDonald to come onto the platform but before she does, what

you see as the essential theme of this conference? I think the themes

are, given we are an all Ireland party, we have different issues

north and south, the main themes are about reconciliation, trying to

get more delivery from Stormont and then that the economy where we're

dealing with so than politics. There are something like 300

motions with a wide variety. The central themes will be about the

economy and the continuing peace building and reconciliation.

are obviously an absentia list MP, one interesting development this

year is that we have the Labour spokesman for Northern Ireland here,

that is the first, isn't it? It is, as far as I know. He was made very

welcome last night. He was promoted by Martin McGuinness as a

representative of the British government. He has been to all of

the party conferences from the northern parties so or so is the

last. I challenged him afterwards and he enjoyed the event very much.

Changed times because the big news event of the week has been the

death of Baroness Thatcher. In the old days, Irish republicans did not

mix. There was the IRA's attack on her - your thoughts on all of that?

I think Martin McGuinness are put it well, we are not about

celebrating the death of anyone, to be honest. Others pointed it out

clearly that Margaret Thatcher might have passed on and her

influence in terms of politics died 15 or 20 years ago. Thatcherism is

alive and well, put in the state in the south and right across Britain.

The austerity policies are the real Thatcherite approach to things so

that legacy continues to be opposed so it's not about the personality

and it will not feature in the conference as well. It is not a

cause for celebration. Those interested in politics should

continue to oppose a Thatcherite approaches from government. Last

night Martin McGuinness in his speech was talking about Unionists

being inward looking and representing more of a threat to

the process than a dissidence - an overstatement, surely, given that

the dissidents are working on a tax which may cost people their lives?

He made strong reference to the dissidents as well and repeated

very strongly our opposition to them. He also offered a dialogue to

them to try and get some sense into their approach because it is

clearly leading no one anywhere. I think it quite clearly, unionists

do need to be reminded of the fact that they are in government and

they should want to be in government and it is not something

a reluctance for some of them. The real question has arisen, since the

flags issue in December, is that of leadership within Unionist

communities. People need to be told that this is where we are, this is

a power-sharing process, part of the Good Friday Agreement, this is

as good as it gets for Unionism, rather than simply being in it as

if you are a reluctant partner and somehow giving the impression that

you may end up in the old Stormont of the Forties, Fifties and Sixties.

That will not happen and people need to be told clearly, this is a

shared space with a shared political arrangements. Things are

changing, Belfast is not a unionist city anymore and people need to be

clear of their own constituency and that is the point that Martin

McGuinness was making. If Unionists want to put their heads in the sand,

that really is leading us to a difficult place. We were making a

joke about the royals Theatre but some Unionists might say, if

republicans were less belligerent about flags and identity, maybe

Unionist wouldn't be so defensive. We are reflecting the new reality

that Belfast is not be used city. The flag is flying on designated

days and all I would wish is that the flag never flew at all or that

the Irish flag flew so it is a compromise, not belligerence.

Unionists need to wake up to the reality that this is 2013, the old

state they had in the North has gone and is gone for ever. They

would be better to getting down to working out practical arrangements.

Back now to the studio. Mary Lou McDonald's not making it onto the

platform in the time that we had expected. Things are running behind

a little bit. We will go back to the conference in a moment or two.

Interesting to pick up on what Conor Murphy was talking about,

this tough critique, and we will see what Martin Rogan has had to

say in a moment, a tough critique of the Unionist position on

devolution? Surprised or not that that seems to be coming up as a

theme in his conference? I am not surprised and certainly somebody

who is sad enough to habitue it Parliament Buildings, the

atmosphere is not poisonous but it is certainly Sark and what I think

Martin McGuinness was saying in his speech about the damage has been

brought by Unionists within the Executive is indicative of a really

quite stressed relationships there are at the moment between the two

major parties. What about the fact that this conference is taking

place in Castlebar, it is the Taoiseach's back yard? Presumably

there is no coincidence in that? One would be disingenuous not to

make that assumption. Probably a very deliberate choice of venue,

partly because of that it is his backyard but also that Sinn Fein is

very keen to grow its rural vote where it is much less strong in

rural areas than in urban areas of Ireland. I think there is a riskier

in holding it here because Catholics in rural areas tend to be

more conservative on a whole range of issues, not least abortion and

abortion is on the agenda for debate in the conference. I think

they are simply going to keep to the views that they will not go for

a pro-choice position, they will hold fast to the argument that when

a woman's life is in danger, in no circumstances, and of course it is

the point of the context in to the young Sri Lankan woman who died as

a consequence of miscarrying and not being permitted an abortion

last year. I think that is going to... What political parties

Tenterden this issue is to allow a free vote because it is an issue.

When they moved to block their amendment, they are the ones who

moved it and blocked that amendment that was being levelled by the SDLP

and the DUP. I think on this issue, they are not going to allow a free

vote but it doesn't sound well with his perception of Sinn Fein as a

Democratic Centre, to allow its members, whether in the Assembly or

Doyle, to have a free vote. But it is an issue that orchestrates some

risks, a clash between the rural and urban island. Urban island

tends to be more liberal on this issue whereas rural areas are more

conservative. Didn't expect change. We will go back now to Mark

Devenport and here hopefully live from the conference very shortly.

We referred back to the Martin McGuinness interview, let us hear

from him at who brought delegates up to speed with the peace process

when he made his contribution on the conference floor earlier today.

It always seems impossible until it is done, so said the former South

African President, Nelson Mandela. Why he was clearly talking about

the great struggle for liberation in such Africa, his words are as

relevant to those of us here involved in 40 years of unbroken

struggle. Impossible, undeliverable, not words part of their vocabulary

because the other the people who do, the people who achieved and we are

a bit deliverers. Politics for us is not about gaining political

strength, just for the sake of it. Politics for us is about how we use

that strength and we're the only political party in the state

putting forward a sensible and coherent alternative to the the old

politics of austerity introduced by Fianna Fail and followed by the

coalition. Being in government is about making choices. Which impact

directly on people's lives. I say that as somebody who jointly leads

a coalition. We chose not to have water charges. The government here

made a different choice. We support free universal health care, the

government here made a different call. We chose to invest hundreds

of millions in a new school bolts to stimulate the economy and boost

the construction industry. We chose to break from Westminster and

protect the educational maintenance allowance payments of young people

in education, and we refused to raise student fees. There are

countless other examples of choices we chose to make, be it investment

in new sports stadiums, the development of the long Kesh site

which will see the are you A S opened up their operation in a few

weeks' time and of course the building of the peace building and

conflict resolution centre which also will begin within a few short

months. The rates relief scheme for small businesses, are a desperate

and health, and that within the constraints we were quiff. Don't be

fooled by the efforts of some who claim as they do not have any

choice in the decisions that they make. Everyone in government has

choices to make. John O'Dowd in education it made the choice to

invest �one and 80 Millen in new schools. But that is only part of

the picture. What we are about an education is raising standards and

ensuring that every child reaches their full potential and in two

recent surveys, the standard of primary education in the North came

out top of all the country's -- countries in the English-speaking

world. I would like to think that my stint as education minister,

Caitriona Ruane's stint as education minister allowed John's

stint as Education Minister made It isn't -- it is appropriate to

appeal to Unionists on this issue. It is not credible for them to

complain about educational under- achievement in the Protestant

working class and then stand up and defend the very system of academic

selection at 11 which delivers this. People living in those areas also

need to make their voices heard. Does mainstream Unionism really

represent your views on this and a raft of other issues? So, I also

wish to commend to the efforts of our agriculture minister who had to

deal with -- you had to deal with recent unprecedented snow and other

whether issues. Her action helped alleviate the hardship. It has been

particularly encouraging to see people from a traditional Unionist

backgrounds embracing the language. Unionist people taking a lead. It

is time for the irrational opposition to the Irish Language

culture which some adopt to come to an end. One that not, I wish to

extend an invite to all here and watching at home to visit Derry

this year as we celebrate it as a city of culture. I look forward to

the festival taking place in Derry. The junior minister has been taking

the lead in working with the survivors of institutional abuse

which took place in the 26 counties and also in the north. I appeal to

any survivors who have not yet felt able to contact the inquiry to do

so. You have a right to justice and you have a right to have your voice

heard. As Deputy First Minister, I am absolutely committed to

achieving justice for all of them. In the coming months, we will

review the operation of political institutions. We will consider all

proposals which have a potential to improve effectiveness. We will look

at the size of the Assembly and joint working from north to south.

We will look at a new Confederation of local councils. We will look to

formalise local power-sharing arrangements for the first time.

Those who hark back to majority rule or believe that the job of

government ministers in the North is to deliver for one section of

the community will find no comfort in the prospect of the changes that

lie ahead. Inclusive of tea and power-sharing are the bedrock of

the political institutions in the north. Any proposals for change

will be meticulously produced against both. Enhancing and

building confidence in these institutions must be better for

everyone. The principles of equality must be fully embraced. As

I said last night, I was absolutely unimpressed by the recent meeting I

had with David Cameron. He had no answers on the mess his government

has made on the important issue of corporation tax and had even less

to say on the issue of what has been known as welfare reform.

Welfare reform is a misnomer for what is taking place under this

Westminster Government. What we are witnessing is an attack on the most

vulnerable, the sick, the disabled, those out of work, because of the

coalition's policies when their cabinet is packed full of

millionaires. There being made to pay for the excesses of the tax

dodgers and bankers. Sinn Fein that will resist the onslaught on the

most vulnerable. We will not tolerate the introduction of a

bedroom tax. We will deploy it a petition of concern if this is

brought to the floor in the Assembly. We will not allowed the

erosion of the rights of women to be diminished. We will ensure that

they are treated as equal partners at all times. We will campaign to

ensure people are paid a living wage, rather than having to depend

on the state to ensure the quality of life. The way the British

Government has approached this issue raises an important point for

all of the Executive parties. Quinine to have a proper and open

debate. It has become increasingly obvious to me that the idea of

parity with a Westminster doesn't work for people in the north. And

not in any grand political way, but in the practical reality of what

works in the south-east of England does not work in the north-east of

Ireland. Let us have that debate in a sensible and rational way, and

come to a consensus among ski parties in the Executive to chart a

new way forward. There are real and significant challenges facing our

Executive in the time ahead, but I come from the school of thought

that believes that no Toland is insurmountable. -- 0 challenge is

insurmountable. We are up for real challenge. I have offered a

dialogue with those Republicans who are opposed to our strategy. You

may have heard on the news that last night in dairy guns and

explosives, designed to plunge our society back to the past, have been

recover to -- recovered. I am thankful that no lives were lost.

My message to people is that we have to continue to support peace.

And what to make one of her observation. Every now and again,

you will see these so-called Republicans parading. Now and again

you will see them on television. Most times, people are very

interested to see who is there. I also look, like everybody else. I

CVs 50-year-old people and 40-year- old people, and 35 ago people. And

I don't recognise most of them. You know what I wonder? I wonder where

they were when there was a war. I have also sought dialogue with the

Orange Order in advance of the marching season. I wrote to them

six months ago. I have yet to receive a reply. I wrote to them in

the aftermath of then issuing a public statement saying that they

had not had any difficulty with any Orange Lodge in the north of

Ireland engaging with local residents' groups. That was last

year. My information tells me that not one Orange Lodge has even made

any attempt whatsoever to have dialogue are to show respect for

local communities in the north. I repeat my calls today to the Orange

Order and to those so-called Republicans, to make it clear that

there are no closed doors to my office for any section of society.

I can defend the position that I come from. I can defend the people

that I represent. And I can defend the decisions that people like

Gerry Adams and myself took over the course of the last 20 years to

try to move this country forward. I am absolutely confident. Have they

got the confidence to come into a room with us? Sadly, this are --

thus far, but has not been the case. I am confident in the future of

this island. I'm confident in our ability to construct new

relationships and build a new republic based on equality. That is

the work of Republicans in the here and now. More and more people, I

believe, are sharing a revision of the future. Those people now need

to take the next step and join with us in a peaceful and democratic

journey to Irish reunification. Martin McGuinness addressing Sinn

Fein's Ard Fheis this morning. We will discuss some of the detail of

what he had to say with my panellist and our reporter. Our

Political Editor sport to Gerry Adams this morning. I think Martin

McGuinness was making the point that people need to be in

government because they want to be in government. Pretending that they

are not part of power Shane -- power-sharing arrangements just

does not stand up. The biggest danger to the political process

comes within the political process. These small and in sequential --

inconsequential issues will not bring down the process. People

would say that Sinn Fein were opposed to the flag dispute.

compromised. Imagine the headline that Sinn Fein at vaults for a

Union flag to fly. That was the only option in terms of change.

went for a compromise. It was legally approved by the council.

The point that has to be made, and have made this numerous times, when

some of these small groups who killed British soldiers are British

police officers, Martin McGuinness stood shoulder to shoulder with

Peter Robinson. He made it clear that this behaviour was totally and

absolutely unacceptable. That is what we look to in terms of making

politics work. Asserting the power of politics over anything else.

Sinn Fein have been having some discussions with loyalists. Of

those talks that you are involved in a broader and involving the PUP?

I don't want to issue detailed on any of that. Our party has been

engaged in what was probably wrongly called out reach. That is

an awkward sort of turn. I would refer to it as dialogue. I will

refer to it in my presidential address that people living in

disadvantaged working-class backgrounds have more in common

with Unionists than they might think. The problems are not going

away. We need to listen to each other. Sometimes people talk at

each other. We need to listen and take heed of what is being said.

You are marking 30 years as Sinn Fein President. Do you have a date

of when you are thinking of handing the baton on to someone to

concentrate on your grandchildren or your teddy bear and rubber duck?

My grandchildren are a great joy. The party and I will consider a

date in due time. In terms of you all iron -- All Ireland priorities,

is that the economy and how does Sinn Fein propose to heal island's

great economic wars? Would you be at oppose to rates in Northern

Ireland Cammack it is not similar because -- in Northern Ireland?

is not similar. It is not the responsibility of the tax payers to

massage the debt because of our wrong-headed approach of government.

We end up with duplicate challenges and opportunities because we are an

All Ireland party. The issue of tackling sectarianism requires us

to open up dialogue on social and economic issues. That is a key

priority. It is all about the economy as someone famously said.

We need to try and understand that from a republican perspective the

economy should serve the citizen. Not the other way around. One moral

issue which has been controversial is abortion. Are you expecting any

shift in your policy here? I am not. Our position on this is a long

settled issue going back 20 years. It is very straightforward. We're

not a pro-abortion party. We have a position which understands that

there needs to be medical certainty and protection for women who were

in danger. The people have spoken and have said that there should be

legislation for that. It will be discussed as it was last year. The

position was reinforced last year. For thank you. $$CLEAR

Back now to the conference with Mark Devenport and Mary in a gold.

From the party president to the party vice-president, I am joined

by a Mary Lou McDonald who has come off the platform. Discussing their

whether Sinn Fein is consistent now and South when it comes to the

economy. Sometimes you are accused of implementing cuts in the north

but opposing them in the south. You are in opposition so you can oppose

whatever the government suggests? suppose you could, but we do two

things - our first job in opposition here in the south is

obviously to hold government to account, to represent the people

that affect us to the best of our ability but also to bring forward

alternatives and we do that too and the balance the two. On the issue

of the Northern souther, this alleged difference or divide, it

has to be borne in mind that in the north of the country, the Assembly

and Executive don't have a fiscal powers. So to a large extent, the

administration is limited in respect of the kinds of choices

that have been made and I think for what it is worth, the Executive has

sought to protect the most vulnerable but they do it in

circumstances where they don't have the full range of economic tools

that for instance the southern administration has and I think very

often when that criticism is levelled at us, very deliberately,

southern opinion formers choose to misrepresent the situation as

though the southern government was in the same position as the

Executive. They are not, they have far more options and they clearly

have a greater degree of sovereignty in their grasp, not

withstanding the fact that we're here and we against austerity north

and south. We are for jobs and investment and we're absolutely

consistent in that. In the last election, you had a perfect storm

in as much as Fianna Fail went into meltdown and you picked up gains

there. Fianna Fail are making a comeback in opinion polls recently,

you are looking to get back into the Labour Party's territory here?

We're looking to do our job and we're looking to build a support

base, why wouldn't we? Very often I think people are excited about a

moment in time in respect of any political party, they write them

off or they took them up. Politics is cyclical and politics is am

living phenomenon to and all the time we have to ensure that higher

-- or a ticket and and we want support from wherever it comes.

Abortion is always a controversial issue, some delegates believe there

should be a freedom of conscience clause, do you support that? No I

don't, we have had many debates on this issue over the years. We have

a settled position to protect the lives of women and to protect

medics, that is our position. The debate that and once we come to a

decision, that is the Sinn Fein decision and we stand behind it.

Gerry Adams wouldn't give me a date for leaving the leadership, he is

30 years into the job. Should he decide to call it a day and

concentrate on the family, when he beat in the running? I will not be

giving you did either. On the subject of leadership, in good time

we will settle those matters. Gerry Adams is doing a great job. That's

all from Castlebar in County Mayo. Back to the studio.

Rick Wilford is still with me. Let us go back to the Martin Rogan as a

presentation to the Ard Fheis and that interview that Mark Devenport

did that Gerry Adams. We're clear from what he had to say that the

petition of concern will be raised by Sinn Fein on the floor of

Stormont if the issue of the so- called bed and tax? This is one of

the policies the UK government is introducing, they collared the

spare room subsidy. What Sinn Fein is saying is that they are throwing

down the gauntlet to the other parties. In effect, challenging

them to oppose the petition that is designed to block any idea that the

so-called bedroom tax will be applied in Northern Ireland. I

think that it is putting up to the other parties. What about the

economics of Sinn Fein, there is a challenge for the party here in

dealing with economic policy on an all Ireland basis, we have two

separate governments, one of which Sinn Fein is involved in, one of

which it is in opposition to? can be a struggle because on the

one hand, there can be the opposition in this house and they

can oppose a variety of proposals that the current administration on

to introduce. They are designed to tackle the austerity but it is

hitting those who are perhaps less able to their becoming of tackling

it. It has been given an added. Because yesterday in Dublin, the

finance ministers of the EU were meeting and they were having to

grapple with the possibility that Cyprus is going to come forward and

ask for more money, Slovenia seems to be teetering on the banks of

being unable to sustain growing and repaying loans there. So this gives

some motive power to Sinn Fein's determination with its economic

project which is to tackle austerity, to adopt a more

Keynesian policy, Martin Rogan has talked about infrastructure

investment in the North as opposed to the lack of it in the South Sobe

it is that demand management side of it that they are interested in

to stimulate the economy were as governments in Ireland and indeed

in Britain, too, are much more concerned with battling down on

welfare and government spending. Jim Prior, secretary of state under

Margaret Thatcher caused by administration, he said they were

all chances week extend that to Sinn Fein. Just a brief word about

some of the things Martin Rogan is didn't actually address, which he

may have done - he didn't talk about the Good Friday Agreement 15

years on, the Border pulled or the passing of Mark Thatcher? I find

the last not surprising because it she had come up at all, but

interestingly, the border poll was at the top of the agenda for Sinn

Fein earlier in the year and the latter part of last year. No

mention of that and no target date. Not even a token acknowledgement

that it is 15 years of the Good Friday Agreement, I did find that

my only surprising. 30 years of Gerry Adams in charge, interesting

to see if he is still there in 10 years. We would go there. That is

it from all of us on this programme, the Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams

makes his leader's speech at 8:30pm tonight. To lead to catch up on

that, we have another programme tomorrow at 6:00pm on BBC Two where