Browse content similar to 01/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. The worst experience of my | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
political life, says the Health Minister as he responds to a motion | :00:26. | :00:36. | |
:00:36. | :00:40. | ||
on the pseudomonas outbreak which killed four babies. Telling people | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
bump their babies had died and perhaps that was a voidable was one | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
of the hardest things I had to do. Also on the programme, with prison | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
issues high on the political agenda, my guest is Olwen Lyner from NIACRO. | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
And as he attempts to jump start the economy the Finance Minister | :00:57. | :01:07. | |
:01:07. | :01:13. | ||
gives it his all. 1, 2, 3! But we start tonight with that | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
debate on pseudomonas. A Sinn Fein motion called for the creation of a | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
regional neonatal intensive care unit to be speeded up. A sombre | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
house heard criticism of some of those involved, but also praise for | :01:22. | :01:32. | |
:01:32. | :01:33. | ||
the minister. One we talk about the new women and | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
children's hospital, we talk about maternity services in Belfast and | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
neonatal services across the region. It was in the early 1990s that it | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
became clear that radical change was needed for maternity services, | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
not only at the Belfast City back at the Royal. Everyone knew that | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
they were not equipped and the services were split between two | :01:58. | :02:06. | |
hospitals. In June at the 2003, it was announced that the new deja nor | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
hospital for women and children will be sited at the Royal. In 2005, | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
it was announced that funding for the new building, which would lead | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
to one of the best maternity facilities in the world was | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
available. So there are a number of questions that go back to that time. | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
What happened to that funding and where is the state-of-the-art | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
facility? And as members would recall, there was a pseudomonas | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
outbreak, or an incident in Londonderry. That led to the issue | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
of an internal memo on 22nd December when the chief medical | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
officer at made an announcement. That has been made available to us | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
and I have read it many times. In my naivety, that document did not | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
indicate the gravity of the situation that had developed. | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
Fundamentally, but documents and -- the document did not mention that a | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
child had died. It should have been in that memo. And although it has | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
been refuted by the Department, it is inevitable that that memo may | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
have sat in an in-tray for action after Christmas and that would have | :03:24. | :03:31. | |
been entirely understandable, but not justified. There is no evidence | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
that following that alert that there was much action taken. | :03:37. | :03:46. | |
have to get the systems in place. It is a dreadfully painful lesson | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
to have to learn for the whole surface and the families, but we | :03:51. | :04:00. | |
have to put in place a system where we can identify pseudomonas early. | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
-- health service. We look and expertise from around the world but | :04:05. | :04:15. | |
:04:15. | :04:15. | ||
will enable us to respond to this quickly. The motion refers to the | :04:15. | :04:25. | |
:04:25. | :04:29. | ||
recent pseudomonas outbreak. The death of those babies is | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
devastating. Also, families who have had babies in neonatal units | :04:36. | :04:45. | |
across Belfast will be concerned. I know that many people felt a lot of | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
pain and for me personally, it has be the worst experience of my | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
political life having to deal with this, and having to deal directly | :04:56. | :05:03. | |
with the families involved. Telling people that their babies died and | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
perhaps that was a voidable was one of the hardest things I have heard | :05:08. | :05:17. | |
there had to do and I trust I will never have to do it again -- I have | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
had to do. We need to have answers as quickly as possible. Mr Alastair | :05:23. | :05:31. | |
is right in that sometimes inquiries can be put up as | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
blockages? -- blockages. How long will they last? | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
How safe are prison officers from attack in their place of work? | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
lot safer than they used to be, according to the Justice Minister. | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
He was was asked about a recent assault at Maghaberry. We'll hear | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
that in a moment, but first here's the Health Minister again, | :05:51. | :06:00. | |
answering a question on the treatment of eating disorders. | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
cost is significant when families have to go to go different | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
jurisdictions. It's not just the cost of the facility, but the | :06:10. | :06:18. | |
charge on the health service. Family members need to be close to | :06:18. | :06:25. | |
the location for visits. The cost is extensive and since 2005, �2 | :06:25. | :06:35. | |
:06:35. | :06:37. | ||
million had been invested in the eating disorder services. Since | :06:37. | :06:46. | |
2010, in patients eating disorders treatment had been provided. There | :06:46. | :06:56. | |
:06:56. | :06:58. | ||
are specially trained psychiatric staff. This provides a seamless | :06:58. | :07:05. | |
service. Following on from the previous supplementaries, what is | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
the situation in terms of the number of referrals in terms of | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
eating disorders? Given the size of the population in Northern Ireland, | :07:13. | :07:23. | |
:07:23. | :07:24. | ||
it would be difficult to sustain a specialist unit. And the current | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
economic climate, it is not money we will tie up directly with the | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
development of such a unit, but the private sector have expressed | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
interest and had been in discussions with the health service | :07:42. | :07:51. | |
as to how many clients they would provide. Individual patients might | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
benefit from care outside of Northern Ireland, but indications | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
are that over the last few years, there has been a reduction in | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
contractual referrals and that trend is expected to continue as we | :08:08. | :08:18. | |
:08:18. | :08:21. | ||
develop our own local expertise. The future of the causeway hospital | :08:21. | :08:29. | |
in collaring has been causing concern for MLAs. Well Coleraine | :08:29. | :08:39. | |
:08:39. | :08:41. | ||
continue to have an accident and emergency provision? In terms of | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
the causeway hospital, population plans are being looked at through | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
the trust and the Commission bodies and what is important is that what | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
is thought to myself is a sustainable model for the future. | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
The easiest thing for me to do as the minister would be to indicate | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
that I would not be altering or changing everything in the causeway | :09:04. | :09:13. | |
hospital. Only for six months, one year, two years down the line for | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
the whale colleges to withdraw their services, I would rather make | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
a decision that will allow for a sustainable model for a hospital. | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
It will include an emergency department within that. I am not | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
sure whether he or I should be more concerned, but I find myself on the | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
same pages as the MP for North Antrim Ian Paisley. He says that | :09:40. | :09:50. | |
:09:50. | :09:51. | ||
the hospital will close. If one of his own MPs finds no reassurance, | :09:51. | :09:59. | |
why should anyone think otherwise? Well, I note the member quoting | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
from a certain publication and it does not always give things right, | :10:04. | :10:13. | |
or of course. As the Member knows, the aforementioned MP the | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
participate. In highlighting the problem that the European Working | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
Title States, by not allowing doctors to come into Northern | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
Ireland who would have previously been allowed in to support services, | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
I appreciate the fact that the Member of Parliament is putting up | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
a vigorous campaign on a regular basis. In fact, he tortures me | :10:38. | :10:47. | |
about it. Justice next, and the minister was questioned about | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
prison officer safety at Maghaberry. The safety of prison officers is a | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
priority. Him enough three years be recorded assault has Haft. | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
Nonetheless, there is no room for complacency. Recently, staff were | :11:02. | :11:09. | |
able to respond to an manage incident safely and swiftly and no | :11:09. | :11:16. | |
injuries were sustained. Although assaults on prison staff, nurses | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
and teachers cannot be tolerated. Tensions are often a fact of life | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
in a prison setting. On many occasions, staff can use their | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
training to bring situations to a successful resolution. Whilst 30 | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
other prisoners were in the facility on certain incidents, they | :11:40. | :11:48. | |
did not join in and some of them actually aided the prison officers. | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
What assessment is carried out when it comes to the number of staff | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
ratio to the number of prisoners? They are the 30 prisoners did not | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
get involved, but if they did, it could have been serious. Given the | :12:05. | :12:14. | |
Governor of Maghaberry is a minister, can he give assurance | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
that senior management at Maghaberry can ensure the safety of | :12:17. | :12:24. | |
the staff but were they? We do have ratios of officers to start on the | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
landings which are large be comparable with, and in many cases, | :12:30. | :12:38. | |
higher than more stop poor prisoner than our neighbouring prisons. The | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
fact that the last three years has seen, despite the increase in a | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
number of prisoners, the number of incidents like this going down is | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
an indication of good work being done by prison staff and management | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
in dynamic security to ensure these incidents do not happen with any | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
regularity. We heard there about prisoner | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
numbers going up and with me now is Olwen Lyner of the prisoner welfare | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
group NIACRO. We've heard repeated calls for a | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
re-evaluation of business rates, but the Finance Minister has again | :13:08. | :13:18. | |
:13:18. | :13:24. | ||
I think in terms of looking at rehabilitation, we must look not | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
just at the Justice Department but a number of departments that should | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
be helping people when they are coming out of prison. The majority | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
of people will be coming out and looking for housing in the public | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
sector. Public sector support. That will affect the housing executive. | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
Many will have a form of benefits and we meet the Social Security | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
Agency. They need to be brought to realisation of what life will be | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
like back in society and the issues they will face. And how they will | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
integrate into society again in a way that it means the behaviours | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
that brought them to that place our behaviour is they can work to | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
reduce. Prism is an important opportunity for people to consider | :14:13. | :14:21. | |
life choices. -- prison. Some of the debate in recent times has been | :14:21. | :14:30. | |
a debate between hang a heady and hard a goody. Severe punishments | :14:30. | :14:37. | |
compared to a liberal view. purpose of prison is to bring | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
people that have been found to be guilty of some offence to serve a | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
period in prison. The period of being outside society is a | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
punishment in itself. After we have taken away their liberty and they | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
are there for six months, one year or whatever, we must engage with | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
people to look at what is required when they come back into society | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
began. I am interested in the term a liberal. It is not easy for | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
people to face up to their behaviour and make these changes. | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
What matters is that people come out and that they did not commit | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
offences again and we do not have people victimised and have more | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
crime. That is not so much liberal as sensible and a good use of | :15:25. | :15:33. | |
public money. We are trying to We've heard repeated calls for a | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
re-evaluation of business rates but the Finance Minister has again said | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
that won't happen until 2015. I asked Sammy Wilson why that's the | :15:39. | :15:49. | |
:15:49. | :15:50. | ||
case. I have heard this said, that because the value has gone down, | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
and therefore be rates should go down. But of course when the Dow | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
you was going up four and five times in the middle of the boom, it | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
went up four or five times because that is not the way that it works. | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
We set a certain amount of money in which to raise it from taxation. If | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
it goes down, for example, by 50 %, that does not mean the rate will go | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
down by 50 %. We still want to get the same amount of money from | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
business rates but it might mean that it would double and equally | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
the value of properties go up and the amount you pay per pound would | :16:36. | :16:43. | |
half. If people think this will be a panacea for getting rates down, | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
it might change relatively for some people and some areas getting an | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
increase and other areas getting a decrease but it is not going to | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
solve all of the problems. What about changing the system | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
altogether with a local sales tax? That would not necessarily be all | :17:02. | :17:09. | |
that fair. Because you might find that some stores cover a big area | :17:09. | :17:16. | |
and meet demands on public services, but the value of sales is quite low | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
and vice versa. And so with every kind of system, we will always have | :17:22. | :17:30. | |
an upside and downside. A sales tax for example, it will only have, it | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
can end the be based on declared sales. What about fly-by-night | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
stalls? Before accounts are published, they are bankrupt and | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
whatever. That could be a recipe for people that wants to avoid | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
paying any tax at all. These are the kind of considerations we have | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
decided and unless the Assembly asks for a total change in how we | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
did local taxation, we have done a valuation of property and we will | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
have a where shinned down and that will be done in a way that will be | :18:08. | :18:15. | |
robust and in place by 2015. Rather than the gaps that we have, we want | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
to do a five year valuation and an evaluation of property on a regular | :18:21. | :18:29. | |
basis. But we did not want the turbulence in the market. I think | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
that is the right decision because we did the way the recession went | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
and property values went all over the place, we could not have a | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
proper valuation. Why should government revenues be protected? | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
Because they are used for the very services on which businesses depend. | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
Every week, I have got organisations coming and saying | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
that we would like to spend more money in a revamping town centres | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
and on infrastructure and protecting businesses, the police | :19:02. | :19:09. | |
service and so on. People pay for a service. That is why we collect the | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
Revenue. And if we stop the service is because we did not collect the | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
Revenue, people could equally say that is having an impact on | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
Students in Northern Ireland who want to go to university in | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
Scotland are being told they can qualify for free tuition, as long | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
as they have an Irish passport. The Ulster Unionist Employment & | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
Learning spokesperson, Basil McCrea, has called for fairness. He joins | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
me now. What do you mean by that? It is not fair that you can have | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
one set of people in Northern Ireland that can go to university | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
for free and another person 50 ft away that cannot. That is not fair | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
and it is not equality. everybody can surely apply for an | :19:50. | :19:56. | |
Irish passport? That is about different value choices people make. | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
It does seem strange that legislation says not just Irish | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
passport but Belgian, French or any European Union passport would get a | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
free education in Scotland. The only people that cannot get it for | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
free in Scotland are people in Northern Ireland, England or Wales | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
and that is discriminatory. people can get eat here within | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
reason if they apply for the Irish passport and gave for a course | :20:22. | :20:30. | |
where there is not a cap. Discrimination is not right, ever, | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
under any circumstances. And if you talk about discriminating against | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
English people in Northern Ireland or Irish people in Scotland, the | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
whole of Northern Ireland is based on equity and fairness. What is | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
very strange for me in this debate is that people that shout loudest | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
about equality are strangely quiet about this. If we want a civilised | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
society it should be equal for everybody and if it is free for one | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
person you should be for others. He should charge the same fees for | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
everybody. But surely the equation is that the students are faced with | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
a question, even if they are Irish passport holders, they are not sure | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
if they will get their choice because of the competition. It they | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
say that they will pay the fees, that is very unfair to put them in | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
that position. I did not have any problem with people taking an Irish | :21:29. | :21:38. | |
passport and saying that entitles into that is presumably some form | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
of Merit and suitability. That seems fair and equitable. But what | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
seems unfair is that an equally qualified person going for exactly | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
the same course and the same timescale and place will be charged | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
money. We do not have any way around that. That is totally unfair | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
and discriminatory. The DUP and Sinn Fein should be speaking up for | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
this because they speak up on an awful lot of similar issues. | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
are we not doing the same thing, we are not offering it for free but | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
they will have to pay a higher rate than the students here? The idea of | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
discrimination has broken down because of the fee structure that | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
is operating. If you offer to one it should be offered to another. I | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
did not have any problem with a regulatory regime that says that we | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
think that if we charge more fees we can offer a better course. Or it | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
people say that we do not want to charge fees because that can | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
discourage participation. That is valid but what is not is charging | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
one set of fees to one set of people and another or not charging | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
another set of people. That is blatant and absolute, no getting | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
away from it, this is discriminatory. It is not equality | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
and it shows the paucity of arguments from other parties like | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
the DUP and Sinn Fein and its his country means anything it is about | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
being fair. We must realise the trauma in society and we have to | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
fix that. Looking at Justice, you have just left de Justice Committee | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
but what do you think the committee and the Assembly must do to make | :23:28. | :23:35. | |
things better for your organisation in terms of rehabilitation? I think | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
the projects generally, I think we have got an issue about the justice | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
committee and continued scrutiny. We need to be moving forward in a | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
positive direction and the committee provides that scrutiny | :23:47. | :23:54. | |
and they will continue to do that. But we need the Executive, anyone | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
minister on their home must have the support of other parties, other | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
departments, other ministers to make the Executive work at them. We | :24:03. | :24:11. | |
have to work together -- make the Executive happen. That is something | :24:11. | :24:19. | |
We talked last week and last night about the lack of business here at | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
the Assembly. Well, there was a development today as Gareth Gordon | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
told me earlier. We have not had much action in the chamber for | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
weeks. We had a situation which is indicative of the fact that we do | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
not have enough for MLAs to be discussing but the business | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
committee have communicated concerns to the DUP Minister and | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
will go back to the Executive to tell us what has been set. I have | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
been told by that committee that things are looking better and we | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
have got a much healthier order paper for this month and more | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
executive business. But at least one MLA said more can be done. | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
are working on this, that and the other but I would rather they came | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
clean and told us that and we knew what to expect. By not coming | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
forward, there appears to be a suspicion that maybe they do not | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
have something. I would not like to think that but if that is the case | :25:20. | :25:27. | |
we had better have a review of what they are doing. But we have got | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
problems for Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness as well. It is | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
not just today but it has been dominated today here by health | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
matters and that has been causing concern in the officer of the first | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
and Deputy First Minister. They have got a trade negotiation to the | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
United Arab Emirates and India and they are feeling decidedly unwell | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
and in the past few months it has been bad and I think that we need | :25:57. | :26:04. | |
to look at that. We have been looking at people being sent to | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
prison in this way and it does not happen in the UK any more. Does | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
that deeds to be reviewed? It is really disproportionate. At the | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
time when the offence is committed and the individual is in court, the | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
judge determines if that is an offence at once a prison. A much | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
lesser outcome -- that is warranting prism. That is like | :26:32. | :26:42. | |
:26:42. | :26:44. | ||
community service and a fine. -- prism. -- jail. People can choose | :26:44. | :26:54. | |
:26:54. | :26:55. | ||
to go to jail instead of paying.... Some people end up defaulting and | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
they have owed less than �500. Some of them have them for motoring | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
offences. In the big picture of who should be going to jail, one a | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
fence that warrants it, I did not condemn for one second what has | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
happened but I do not think that is what the majority thinks that prism | :27:18. | :27:28. | |
:27:28. | :27:30. | ||
Now you may have heard of a dead cat bounce - that's when there's a | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
temporary recovery on the stock market. We didn't have that today. | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
What we did have was a finance minister bounce. He wasn't trying | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
to jump start the economy, but launch a family fun day which will | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
take place at Stormont next month. And Sammy Wilson wasn't shy when it | :27:42. | :27:52. | |
:27:52. | :28:19. | ||
1, 2, 3, go! That is better. You see the way I do that? Better milk. | :28:19. | :28:29. | |
:28:29. | :28:29. | ||
Not very good? What a minister. That is good. And that is on 4th | :28:29. | :28:38. |