01/07/2013 Stormont Today


01/07/2013

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Good evening. Welcome to Stormont Today.

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Coming up on tonight's programme: We look at some potential changes

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at Stormont's top table. Could this be the last time we see Sammy

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Wilson as Finance Minister? And is the SDLP about to change its only

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Minister in the Executive? And as police warn an illegal drug could

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be linked to the deaths of eight people, the Health Minister calls

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for action. The community and very often the people in this House are

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fed up with judges treating criminals with kid gloves. And it

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may be the end of term, but our political correspondent, Martina

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Purdy, was happy to stay after class.

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It's the final week of Stormont before the summer break and there's

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been a bit of an end of term feel up here all day. There's also much

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chatter about the probability of some movement at the top table.

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Before the end of the week there could be two new faces on the

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Executive. With me to discuss that, our political correspondent,

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Martina Purdy. There could be potentially quite a bit of movement

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on the executive There has been speculation about a couple of

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Ministers, for example, Sammy Wilson in the Department of Finance.

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He's supposed to leave in the next few weeks and be replaced by his

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parliamentary assistant. It's no surprise because when he appointed

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him Finance Minister in 2011 he indicated it would be a two-year

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appointment. At the same time he indicated there would be a mid-term

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review of staff, and he suggested that Edwin Poots after awhile -

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after midterm, could be replaced by Jim Wales, the MLA for South Down.

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Funnily enough we're not expecting him to take over health at the same

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time Simon Hamilton takes over finance. He could step into the job

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of parliamentary assistance and read himself into the health job,

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but so far, he's bearing up stoically. I rang him to ask, is it

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likely you're going to be moving? He said he was happy to serve. He

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hasn't heard anything but was happy to serve in whatever capacity the

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party want him to. I think there is fevered speculation - I don't think

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that's overstating it, about the future of the Environment Minister

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Alex Atwood. Alex Atwood, it's no secret, wasn't meant to be there

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much longer, and we have been hearing in recent days his

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departure is imminent. The question is who is going to replace him as

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Minister of the environment? The name we consistently have been

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hearing is Joe Burn, MLA for West Tyrone. I am hearing it's fairly

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controversial appointment inside the party because there are those

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who think it should be Patsy McGlone, who performed well in by-

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elections, that he's the best person to take over, but I am told

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he's made up his mind it will be burn. I think he wants to show Joe

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Burn appreciation for his contributions to the party over the

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years. I am hearing the Belfast councillor Nicola Maland will be

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the new Special Advisor to the Environment Minister. A file

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thought, the assembly is finishing. The final one is tomorrow we

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haven't seen the legislation brought forward perhaps we'd

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anticipated. No, it will be September at the earlier before we

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see the Education Bill, there to create new education structures.

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There is also the welfare reform Bill, pulled by the Social

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Development Minister in April no. Sign of it coming back on to the

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table, and that is causing problems we heard from Sammy Wilson today.

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He said there could be huge costs associated with this bill if it

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isn't passed by next January. He pointed it's costing the Treasury

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millions of pounds a month in lost savings and I think patients could

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wear out there. Thank you very much. So, we may not be seeing as much of

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Sammy Wilson in the future, but he was right in the middle of things

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today. The Finance Minister told the Assembly the total cost of the

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G8 summit in Fermanagh was �80 milliion. The figure came as Mr

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Wilson announced the redistribution of millions of pounds of Stormont

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finances. Departments submitted bids totaling �179 million in

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respect of resource expenditure and �233.2 million in terms of capital

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expenditure. Mr Speaker, there's been much focus on the cost of the

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G8 event. I have to say the most important thing that we

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successfully delivered - safe and secure event, and for that, I give

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my sincere thanks to the PSNI. Of course, this event did not come for

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free, and whitest the UK Government picked Up the majority of the costs

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the executive also picked up some funding. Security-related costs now

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stand at approximately �75 million. However, some �60 million or costs

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which the UK Government has agreed to cover - and that leaves a

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balance of �14.5 million, which the Executive agreed to allocate to DOJ.

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In addition to the policing and security-related costs there were

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additional costs registered by some departments including DRD and

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Health. This amounted to some �5.1 million and funded roads and

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improvements around Enniskillen, a publicity campaign to maximise the

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economic benefits of the event and pressure on the Fire and Rescue

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Service. Mr Speaker, we must recognise that the G8 event has the

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potential to generate huge economic benefits for Northern Ireland. That

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is why the event will be followed by an investment conference in the

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autumn. Of course we'll not know the full economic benefits for

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years to come. However, a recent report by Barclays estimated there

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could be significant net economic benefits in the short run with

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potential for greater long-term benefits for Northern Ireland.

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Pending further consideration of all options toond ensure that

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valuable time is not lost, the executive has agreed the Regional

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Development Minister can proceed with the MacElfield bypass project

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- this scheme costing around �40 million will address a key

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bottleneck on our roads network and the Executive's pro-active approach

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sends a clear message of confidence to our construction sector at this

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difficult. It's the anticipated work on the ground will start in

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the autumn of next year. I know that before the G8 happened, there

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was considerable doubt expressed as to its benefits to Northern Ireland,

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the cost there was going to be, and you always had the begrudgers and

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the naysayers and the whingeers and the negative people looking for the

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bad news story from it. I think - it has now been universally

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accepted that first of all, we put on a good show. The weather even

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helped us, for goodness sake. It was the safest and the most secure

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G8 and there have already been benefits from it in terms of the

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publicity. My question is how long will this take until its

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completion? Well, first of all, I am glad the member has welcomed the

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statement. I know both his and my party received some criticism

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because we didn't support the populist motion that had been

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brought forward to the Assembly a couple of weeks ago calling for the

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funding of the MacElFed bypass in this particular year, and of course,

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the reason for that as he'll well know, is money cannot be spend on

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the Macrofeld bypass in this particular year. There is still the

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vesting process to be done, the procurement process, and that's why

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I have said in this statement that we would expect work to begin in

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autumn of next year. Can he ensure this House that the cast costs that

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went into the G8 project would be able to be used in future policing

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operations and this wasn't just a one-off cost, that there will be a

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long-term benefit to the police for what they bought? Some of the

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expenditure was for capital equipment, surveillance equipment,

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drones, et cetera, which don't disappear after the G8 has gone and

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are not redundant after the G8 is over, and that would be capital

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equipment which would be available to the police, and therefore should

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be part of the normal budget. Finance Minister, Sammy Wilson.

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The Minister for Health was asked how his Department is responding to

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reports that at least eight deaths could be linked to an illegal drug

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currently in circulation. Edwin Poots said emergency departments

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are equipped to deal with drug cases, but communities, he said,

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need to stand up to the dealers. First of all, Mr Deputy Speaker, I

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am very concerned to hear there have been a number of sudden deaths

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across Northern Ireland that may be linked to drugs use. I would like

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to begin by passing on my condolences to anyone who has lost

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a loved one or a friend in these difficult circumstances. It is

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important to stress that investigations into these deaths

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are ongoing, and we do not know at this stage that they're drug

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related or what, if any, substance is involved. There's bad batch of

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drugs out there, whether they're illegal or legal that are killing

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our people, so can you give us as much information as you possibly

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can and let us know even some of the symptoms that the people need

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to be looking out for? And as our A&E departments made aware of the

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symptoms so if somebody does present themselves, then they're

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actually brought through the system quicker? Staff in our emergency

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departments are trained and equipped to deal with a wide range

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of scenarios, including people who have taken drugs - people who have

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taken drugs overdoses and so forth. It may be possible that these drugs

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have been bought off the internet, but it's probably unlikely, given

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the fact that there was a number of people died in one particular area,

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so there's a whole range of areas we need to be looking at and the

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message just needs to keep going out that if you haven't been

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prescribed drugs by your GP, obtained from a pharmacist, you

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shouldn't be taking them. Would he agree that those profiting from

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this are profiting with the death and the lives and indeed the ill

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health it is caution to many of our young and indeed other aged groups.

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People don't sell drugs for the good of a community. People sell

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drugs because they can make profits. Huge profits by selling drugs, and

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they don't occur for the individuals that they sell the

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drugs to, whether they can afford them, whether it has an impact upon

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their families, what hurt it does, what harm it does or what damage it

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does, and that's why I'm saying very, very clearly today that

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communities need to hand these people over. They are poisoning our

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own community. And I also drive a very important

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message home today to our judges and our courts that when the

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communities stand up to these people - because it isn't very easy

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to do because they're nasty and violent individuals very often -

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that when the communities stand up to these people, that they will

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stand shoulder to shoulder with these people and give them

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appropriate sentences and not some slap on the wrists because the

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community and very often the people in this House are fed one judges

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treating criminals with kid gloves. The gloves were certainly off when

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it came to the subject of the former Maze Prison site at a

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meeting of the OFM/DFM Committee last week. While the First and

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Deputy First Minister were taking questions, it was the DUP's Jimmy

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Spratt who made headlines after he referred to opponents of a proposed

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peace building as "nutters". The Maze, however, wasn't the only

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issue generating heat, as we can see in this week's look at

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committee business. In relation to the first matter about planning, I

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have read some of the hoo-haw in the newspapers, and you know, how

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people have managed to twist for political purposes the nature of

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what was being sought in terms of the planning - I - I have been in

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many parts of the world where I have spoken to people who are

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looking to invest in Northern Ireland and have been put off by

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our planning experiences, and it is internationally recognised that

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Northern Ireland has a poor planning outcome, and if you have

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that out in the international community, there has to be a

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message that goes out to the international community to say,

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things have changed, and I believe that that's the kind of message

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that'll be sent out by what we have done. I have to say I think there's

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been a lot of scare-mongering over the course of the debate that we

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have had in the Assembly in the course of this week, and I think it

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was for political grandstanding purposes, no question or doubt

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about it whatsoever, and it came basically from a Minister who has

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always protected his own independence from the Executive.

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He's not a team player. It's someone who has his own political

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agenda, and even during the course of the debate - and I concur with

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everything Peter said in relation to the arguments that were made

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about this being a land grab by OFM DFM - it's absolutely nothing of

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the sort. I sit here as a member for the valley, and Maze Prison is

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right in the middle of my constituency. When I say when I

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canvass now, there is no opposition to the Maze. The Ministers have

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said that the people of Northern Ireland not only voted with the

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ballot box but they voted with their pockets. Thousands of them

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paid money to go into the Maze. Nobody dragged them in. You're

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talking about Lagan Valley. It is in my area, and the jobs that it

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brings for all of Northern Ireland put us on the world stage. Let's

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not conflate the development of the Maze site. We need to look forward,

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chair, on how we're moving Northern Ireland forward and the Maze is a

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vehicle for that. We can either all get onboard or... Mr Chairman you,

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can't get away with that argument you're attempting to put forward,

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which is not to mistake the development of the site with the

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position of the retained buildings or other - the Peace Building

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centre. That's an inaccurate and you know a totally wrong position

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to adopt. The decision to place the Peace Building centre had already

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been taken. The decision to retain the buildings had already been

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taken. Those were facts that couldn't be changed unless there

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was going to be a Damascus Road experience on the part of Sinn Fein

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and the SDLP for that matter. don't want to get bogged down in

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this, but - I think some of your interventions, like calling the

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people who are against the Peace Building - the centre of the Maze -

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calling them nutters I don't think is helpful. I didn't say that.

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heard you. Point of order. You made reference to a word - I was

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speaking to my colleague, and you made reference to - as an

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independent chair something totally out of context in terms of what was

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said, so I want you to apologise to me for doing that. It's the usual

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way that you try to spin things on the media and everything else to

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suit your own agenda. I certainly was not calling anybody in this

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room or indeed people who have opposition to the Maze nutters, so

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get your facts right before you try to spin and make statements in the

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future, and if you have any guts at all, you'll apologise for not

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independently chairing the meeting at that point. I know what you said,

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Jimmy. Well, let's see - Jimmy Spratt and Mike Nesbitt

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differing on the course of events there but Hansard, in the end,

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sided with Mr Nesbitt. It was a busy day for Sammy Wilson today,

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who also faced Members during Question Time. The Minister locked

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horns with Sinn Fein over his fiscal policy, but before that he

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was asked about potential changes to the defamation law in Northern

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Ireland. I've no plans to initiate a review of the law of defamation

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of present with the passing of the Defamation Act 2013. There have

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been a number of far-reaching changes in the law and in England

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and Wales, and it's my view that what we should do - and it would be

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prudent to see how those changes work through before we make any

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decision how we want to progress that issue here in Northern Ireland.

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I think what we have to avoid is following the Westminster

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legislation - we have to strike the right balance for here in relation

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to the balance between freedom of speech and a private gap and not

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allow the gap to be exploited by poor journalism. The point I would

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make to the member, and indeed, this was recognised by the Minister

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when this issue was discussed in the House of Lords is it was up for

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devolved administrations to look at the situation in their own

:17:58.:18:01.

localities then make decision about that. There is no question about

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suppressing freedom of speech. Before this act went through,

:18:06.:18:09.

people were free to express themselves and newspapers were free

:18:09.:18:13.

to carry stories, so somehow or another, as a result of this act

:18:13.:18:18.

going through and us not implementing this act, freedom of

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speech is being suppressed in Northern Ireland is just a lot of

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nonsense. I would love to be able to say to the member - because I am

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sure she'd love this answer - that when it comes to the net fiscal

:18:30.:18:34.

balance report, we just plucked the figure out of the air and say,

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"There it is" and stick it down on paper.

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These are not figures that are made up. These are figures which are

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subject to a degree of rigour, to a degree of international scrutiny,

:18:46.:18:50.

and therefore, wriggle as they will, Sinn Fein will never be able to

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make the case that somehow or other we owe money to the rest of the UK

:18:57.:19:04.

rather than we get a positive flow of money from the Treasury to

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Northern Ireland and therefore that is the value of being British and

:19:08.:19:15.

part of the United Kingdom. Minister, all of this is a

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distraction from the simple fact that there is no statement of

:19:17.:19:21.

revenue here in the north. The figures we have are not comparable

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to those in Scotland. Can the Minister outline how and when he

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plans to provide accurate figures? I know Sinn Fein would love to wish

:19:31.:19:35.

away the billions of pounds which come from the Exchequer to Northern

:19:35.:19:39.

Ireland in their pursuit of their political objective, but even the

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fairies wouldn't believe that, and I don't think their own supporters

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believe it, and the fact that 25% of their own voters now wouldn't

:19:49.:19:52.

vote for a united Northern Ireland is an indication that they haven't

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even sold the story to their own voters. If the Minister were to

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find that he again had sufficient spare time to go back to marking

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economic papers, what mark would he anticipate giving Sinn Fein on

:20:08.:20:16.

their economic submissions? I don't know if there is a grade set low

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enough! Sammy Wilson, in typically robust

:20:18.:20:22.

form during what could well be his last time at the despatch box as

:20:22.:20:25.

Finance Minister. And voices were also raised during a debate this

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afternoon over a motion tabled by the SDLP's Conall McDevitt urging

:20:27.:20:30.

more North/South co-operation. We'll hear from him in a moment,

:20:30.:20:38.

but first here's a flavour of the debate. East-west cooperation, like

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making these institutions work is not something we do because we have

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to. It's something we do because we know we need to and we want to.

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Northern Ireland is Constitutionally within the United

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Kingdom. Let's be clear on that fact, and whilst I believe Mr

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McDevit and Mr Bradley are endeavouring to do some political

:20:57.:21:00.

grandstanding with this motion, they have got to be mindful

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attempts to bring about a united Northern Ireland are failing

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miserably. Members will note that the amendment does not take issue

:21:10.:21:13.

with practical, pragmatic, mutually beneficial, cross-border

:21:13.:21:20.

cooperation. What it does take issue with is the squander in

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respect of the elaborate north/south arrangements. It is

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true that there are improved working relationships between

:21:29.:21:33.

Stormont and the Doyle. That is to be welcomed. However, that is

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mainly down to the important changes within the Belfast

:21:37.:21:41.

agreement, specifically, the removal of articles two and three

:21:41.:21:44.

and the principle of consent. Unionist reaction to the SDLP

:21:44.:21:48.

motion calling for further north/south cooperation. The motion

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passed comfortably. I am joined by the MLA who tabled it. It was

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comfortable, 52 votes to 37, but the House was divided down the

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middle, wasn't it? Funnily enough, unionism is divided within itself

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because two members took what I think was the right decision and

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supported it. There is no threat. We're just saying a long overdue of

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north/south cooperation should be published. In fact, the review will

:22:18.:22:24.

deal with lot of the problems raised by Unionists. He says he has

:22:24.:22:29.

no problem with practical, pragmatic, mutually beneficial

:22:29.:22:33.

cooperation, but he does have a problem with overly elaborate

:22:33.:22:38.

north-south relations, and that's what he think exists. Two thing

:22:38.:22:46.

points to make, someone the north- south institutions have a - by the

:22:46.:22:49.

people of the Good Friday Agreement. They're not stripped down. There's

:22:49.:22:51.

very efficient approach to the cooperation. The money that is

:22:51.:22:55.

invested is more than recovered either in inward investment or

:22:55.:23:00.

cooperation through trade, in tourism numbers. Tourism Ireland is

:23:00.:23:05.

held up by the DUP Minister herself. She was a great success. She was

:23:05.:23:10.

only just last week congratulating tourism in the House over the work

:23:10.:23:17.

it did over the G8. You mentioned the Narrow Water Bridge. That was

:23:17.:23:20.

divisive. It was because people chose to make it so. I think the

:23:20.:23:24.

problem some politicians - it is a minority of this House, and I think

:23:24.:23:27.

it's a growing minority in the sense it's getting smaller, if you

:23:27.:23:31.

know what I mean, seemed to see politics where it doesn't exist.

:23:31.:23:36.

That is just good news for the peninsula and the South Morns. It's

:23:36.:23:40.

great news for the tourism of the coast. It's fantastic news for the

:23:41.:23:45.

economic development of the area, and also, it has a huge symbolic

:23:45.:23:49.

importance - the first bridge across a border waterway in Ireland

:23:49.:23:53.

since partition - it says it all. We'll leave it there, Conall

:23:53.:23:57.

McDevitt. Thank you very much. Did the Northern Ireland experience

:23:57.:24:00.

inspire world leaders to engage in talks with the Taliban? That was

:24:00.:24:03.

one question put to the Deputy First Minister when he took the

:24:03.:24:06.

floor in Question Time earlier, with the G8 fallout also remaining

:24:06.:24:12.

high on the agenda. After the south of Ireland, the United States is

:24:12.:24:21.

our second largest export market with 533 million pounds in export

:24:21.:24:28.

sales ending up to March 2013, so any action taken for lower tariffs

:24:28.:24:33.

between the US and EU can only help us expand our market export further

:24:33.:24:36.

into the United States. We recognise that as the global

:24:36.:24:44.

economy becomes freer and much more open, it must benefit developed and

:24:44.:24:51.

developing nations alike. Trade must not be one nation's success at

:24:51.:24:56.

the pension of another. Would the First Minister agree with me that

:24:56.:25:00.

the time that's been spent by the leaders of the world in Northern

:25:00.:25:03.

Ireland - it was more than coincidental after they returned

:25:03.:25:08.

home, they decided that it would be better for the leaders to talk to

:25:08.:25:17.

the Taliban, therefore, saving lives in Afghanistan? Well, far be

:25:17.:25:24.

it from me to involve myself in US foreign policy, but I have to say,

:25:24.:25:28.

I did find it encouraging that given that we have been receiving

:25:28.:25:34.

reports over the course of the last three years - and direct

:25:34.:25:37.

conversations have been taking place between the United States

:25:37.:25:41.

administration and the Taliban. Now the direct talks appear to be on

:25:41.:25:46.

the horizon in the not-too-distant future. Anything that has been done

:25:47.:25:50.

to resolve conflict anywhere in the world will always be welcomed by

:25:50.:25:55.

ourselves, and indeed, we are in much demand ourselves because many

:25:55.:25:59.

representatives from all of the parties in this Assembly have

:25:59.:26:02.

travelled to many of the world's travel spots at the invitation of

:26:02.:26:10.

others, so I think, from my perspective, it's a positive

:26:10.:26:15.

development, and the hope has to be that it leads to an end of conflict,

:26:15.:26:21.

violence and death. As the member will be aware, the publication of

:26:21.:26:28.

the MacLease report into to the Maglin laundries - and about Tex

:26:28.:26:34.

peeciouss and the situations of the women who lived in them. We

:26:34.:26:41.

appointed a Senior Civil Servant to draw up a paper in regard to the

:26:41.:26:44.

Magnin Laundries so as to inform us what actions we might take. We

:26:44.:26:49.

received that report at the end of last week and intend to give

:26:49.:26:53.

serious consideration to the options. Can I ask the Minister in

:26:53.:26:57.

light of the compensation scheme announced, what plans they have to

:26:57.:27:01.

make a similar compensation scheme here? Could I just say to the

:27:01.:27:06.

member just in light of the answer I have just given her, it would be

:27:06.:27:12.

a bit premature for me before we'd do the scoping-out exercise to look

:27:12.:27:15.

at those suggestions that have come forward, but we have just received

:27:15.:27:19.

the report and really we're very mindful, as I said, of the callous

:27:19.:27:24.

treatment of those people who were in those types of institutions.

:27:24.:27:27.

Indeed, myself and a junior Minister met with some of the

:27:27.:27:31.

peoples who were the victims, the survivors, and there were

:27:31.:27:35.

horrendous stories they told. So we'll give very, very careful

:27:35.:27:39.

thought. We don't want to rush to judgment. We'll give very careful

:27:39.:27:42.

thought once we read report and some of the recommendations that

:27:42.:27:45.

the scoping exercise has brought forward. Jennifer McCann, the

:27:45.:27:49.

Junior Minister Martina Purdy has rejoined me with a few thoughts.

:27:49.:27:53.

Quickly, we were talking to Conall McDevitt. He put forward his

:27:53.:27:59.

proposal on north-south cooperation, won comfortably. What happens now?

:28:00.:28:04.

I think this motion was about putting the pressure on Sinn Fein

:28:04.:28:09.

and embarrassing the party for failing to build on the north-south

:28:09.:28:14.

bodies that were introduced in 1998. We expect there will be

:28:15.:28:20.

negotiations in the coming months so north-south bodies could be in

:28:20.:28:23.

the mix. Jim Alastair taking the traditional view that we shouldn't

:28:23.:28:26.

build on these bodies and they're not good for the union. Also, that

:28:26.:28:32.

keeps the pressure on the DUP, but in some ways they're symbolic for

:28:32.:28:34.

Nationalists but don't necessarily allow Nationalists to work the

:28:34.:28:38.

system any better or do more deals. Without the bodies there is no

:28:38.:28:42.

accountability and nothing to stop a Sinn Fein Minister from hanging

:28:42.:28:48.

up the force and doing a deal with a Dublin Minister. Thank you very

:28:48.:28:52.

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