06/11/2012 Stormont Today


06/11/2012

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Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up in the next 30 minutes:

:00:28.:00:30.

How a decision by the Agriculture Minister will help some sports

:00:30.:00:40.
:00:40.:00:42.

manufacturers. Ash wood can only be imported under certain tech nickal

:00:42.:00:52.

conditions. -- technical conditions. Also: There is a perception that

:00:52.:00:58.

this Chamber is male and middle- aged.

:00:58.:01:01.

MLAs vote in favour of change and call for the reduction of the

:01:01.:01:04.

minimum voting age here to 16. And we'll hear from our Political

:01:04.:01:07.

Editor who's been walking the corridors of power to keep us up-

:01:07.:01:10.

to-date with all that's happening up here on the hill.

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First tonight, there was a somewhat muted atmosphere around Parliament

:01:12.:01:15.

Buildings today, as the thoughts of many elected representatives were

:01:15.:01:20.

focused elsewhere. A large number of MLAs were keen to attend the

:01:20.:01:23.

funeral of the murdered prison officer, David Black, in Cookstown

:01:23.:01:25.

and the Assembly's Business Committee decided to alter the

:01:25.:01:29.

agenda to accommodate them. Our Political Editor, Mark Devenport,

:01:29.:01:37.

is here to talk us through the day. It was a very unusual day at

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Stormont? It was. We had this unusual suspension in the middle of

:01:41.:01:45.

the day. Normally, they have a lunch break. Instead, they were

:01:45.:01:49.

stopping at noon and then not coming back until 4.00pm. That was

:01:49.:01:53.

all about the funeral of the murdered Prison Officer, David

:01:53.:01:56.

Black, in Cookstown. A lot of elected representatives wanted to

:01:56.:02:00.

make their way there, as we were reporting yesterday. It wasn't

:02:00.:02:04.

everyone from the Assembly because the family expressed their wishes

:02:04.:02:07.

there should be no Sinn Fein representatives so there was no

:02:07.:02:09.

presence from the Deputy First Minister, who otherwise you would

:02:09.:02:12.

have thought he would have been there, he was talking about the

:02:12.:02:19.

murder of David Black in the Chamber and calling those

:02:19.:02:22.

responsible "idiots". The suspension finished. We went on to

:02:22.:02:27.

questions. Some of the elected representatives were still having

:02:27.:02:31.

difficulties getting back because Danny Kennedy was late by nine

:02:31.:02:40.

minutes for his question time, which was due to happen at 4.30pm.

:02:40.:02:48.

The Sinn Fein Green Party motion later today on lowering the age of

:02:48.:02:52.

voting to 16 was debated and passed? Yes, passed by 51 votes to

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29. All the parties lining up on the side of changingst voting age

:02:56.:03:00.

with the exception of the DUP and the TUV. The interesting thing

:03:00.:03:04.

there is that the Ulster Unionists, who you might have thought would

:03:04.:03:14.

not have been keen on this, they came out for a change in the voting

:03:14.:03:19.

age. The DUP weren't convinced. They came under attack from critics

:03:19.:03:25.

who said some of your MPs have said they are in favour of this move and

:03:25.:03:31.

Sinn Fein produced a parliamentary motion which Peter Robinson had

:03:31.:03:35.

signed in 2005 supporting this move. The DUP say their assembly group

:03:35.:03:39.

policy is there shouldn't be a change. What happens next? This is

:03:39.:03:44.

a call for Westminster to change the law as far as the voting age is

:03:44.:03:47.

concerned. The Assembly doesn't have the power to do anything

:03:47.:03:52.

itself? Because Sinn Fein and the Greens were putting this forward,

:03:52.:03:59.

they came under attack, but electoral policy is the prominence

:03:59.:04:08.

of the Northern Ireland Office. Thank you.

:04:08.:04:11.

More now on Regional Development Questions, and, as we've been

:04:11.:04:14.

hearing, Danny Kennedy was one of the MLAs who attended the funeral

:04:14.:04:16.

of David Black this afternoon. The Roads Minister began by apologising

:04:16.:04:19.

to the House for delaying the start of Question Time after getting

:04:19.:04:26.

caught in traffic. Members will know that I'm travelling back with

:04:26.:04:29.

others to the very sad circumstances in Cookstown, the

:04:29.:04:36.

funeral of Mr David Black, which was a very solemn and dignified

:04:36.:04:43.

occasion. And I apologise to the House for my slight delay. As the

:04:43.:04:48.

member will be aware, the increase in the cost of penalty charge

:04:48.:04:55.

notices from �60 to �90 took effect from 4th July 2012. In the

:04:55.:05:05.

intervening period to 31st October 2012, 37,277 PCNs have been issued.

:05:05.:05:11.

This represents a decrease of just over one-tenth when compared to the

:05:11.:05:16.

41,052 that were issued in 2011. My department is monitoring the impact

:05:16.:05:20.

of this fee increase on illegal parking as well as the various

:05:20.:05:25.

types of contraventions. This monitoring exercise will run for 12

:05:25.:05:30.

months to allow for a comprehensive assessment to be completed. My

:05:30.:05:34.

department will carry out a statistical analysis of the results

:05:34.:05:44.
:05:44.:05:46.

found in Northern Ireland compared to those in England and Wales.

:05:46.:05:54.

Given 28% of tickets are issued on one road in Belfast, and 86% of

:05:54.:05:58.

those issued between 4.30 and 6.30, does the Minister consider that the

:05:58.:06:03.

company carrying out the contract at present is doing so in a fair

:06:03.:06:09.

and equitable way across Belfast? The contract for this work was

:06:09.:06:15.

retendered and has been allocated. I'm satisfied that the successful

:06:15.:06:19.

tender does fulfil all of the requirements in terms of what is

:06:19.:06:23.

necessary including increased savings to the department and the

:06:23.:06:30.

cost of these services which of course is quite substantial. The

:06:30.:06:36.

member has raised the issue of a particular section of clear way.

:06:36.:06:40.

I'm still assessing that particular situation and will be happy to

:06:40.:06:46.

liaise with him as we give further consideration to the questions that

:06:46.:06:53.

have been raised. We don't seek to punish people and let me make clear

:06:53.:07:01.

again that the company involved, there are no increased benefits for

:07:01.:07:05.

additional tickets to be issued and it is not done on that basis and

:07:05.:07:11.

the individuals who served the tickets gain no benefit on a

:07:11.:07:16.

personal basis either. Can I ask him, how much money is being lost

:07:16.:07:22.

to his department as a result of this delay? The member will be

:07:22.:07:29.

aware that, as it's been previously indicated, the clock is now running

:07:29.:07:35.

on those delays and any delay will certainly result in increased costs

:07:35.:07:41.

in a number of areas. Assuming there is no change in the total

:07:41.:07:44.

construction period, there would be direct quantified inflationary

:07:44.:07:49.

increases arising from month on month delays to the start of

:07:49.:07:54.

construction. The project team will attempt to mitigate the impact of

:07:54.:07:58.

any delay, however the initial assessment of a delay to the

:07:58.:08:06.

starting date is in the order of �750,000 per month. Of course,

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there is also the postponement of the scheduled start date which will

:08:14.:08:20.

result in the department having to declare back to the Northern

:08:20.:08:23.

Ireland Bloc �10 million for every month of delay.

:08:23.:08:25.

The Regional Development Minister, Danny Kennedy.

:08:25.:08:27.

The Agriculture Minister, Michelle O'Neill, briefed Members on what

:08:27.:08:29.

she's doing to protect ash trees here from the potentially

:08:29.:08:33.

devastating Ash Dieback disease. It's been found in four counties in

:08:33.:08:36.

England and the Minister has signed emergency legislation to try to

:08:36.:08:40.

prevent its spread here. And during Question Time, she also dealt with

:08:40.:08:42.

questions about the planned relocation of her department to

:08:42.:08:49.

Ballykelly. I recognise that the location could cause problems for

:08:49.:08:52.

some existing staff and I have therefore outlined my commitment to

:08:52.:08:57.

use the time that we have available to ensure that the transition from

:08:57.:09:02.

Belfast-based headquarters to the rural setting of Ballykelly is made

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as easy as possible for all the staff. I'm aware the railway line

:09:06.:09:10.

crosses the lower end of the site and I have written to the Minister

:09:10.:09:15.

for Regional Development inviting him to give serious consideration

:09:15.:09:21.

to a rail hub. Would she agree she showed a complete disregard to the

:09:21.:09:24.

pressure on local infrastructure in the area? Would it not have been

:09:24.:09:29.

bet tore have these conversations before you announced your decision?

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The member might be surprised to know I don't agree that I brought

:09:33.:09:38.

my decision on the 3rd September to the Executive. I announced to my

:09:38.:09:43.

colleagues, the objective criteria, I informed them of my move and I

:09:44.:09:48.

decided on the Ballykelly site. I did what I needed to do in terms of

:09:48.:09:53.

informing Executive colleagues. Given Fermanagh has a significant

:09:53.:09:57.

number of ash trees, can the Minister give an update on the

:09:58.:10:01.

situation with the ash dieback disease? I am pleased to report

:10:01.:10:05.

following a meeting with the Minister last Friday, we agreed the

:10:05.:10:10.

need for additional safeguards on imports of ash wood and bark. We

:10:10.:10:16.

found there are regular imports of ash logs from manufacturing

:10:16.:10:20.

purposes. That is a potential pathway for disease. Today, I

:10:20.:10:25.

authorise the making of a statutory rule, the plant health wood and

:10:25.:10:28.

bark amendment order as emergency legislation. From today, ash wood

:10:28.:10:33.

can only be imported under certain conditions as set out in the order.

:10:33.:10:38.

I believe this is a proportionate response to the risk of introducing

:10:38.:10:44.

disease in wood. From today, these can only be imported if they are

:10:44.:10:47.

accompanied by an official statement that the wood originates

:10:47.:10:53.

in an area known to be free from Chalara fraxinea. However, the risk

:10:53.:11:01.

reduces substantially if the wood receives suitable treatment. It is

:11:01.:11:06.

in light of what happened when ever foot-and-mouth came on the scene

:11:06.:11:10.

where the carcasses of the beasts were burnt. In relation to the ash,

:11:10.:11:14.

I can appreciate that certain people might say the right approach

:11:14.:11:21.

would be to burn the ash and therefore probably deal with the

:11:21.:11:28.

hurly stick business in a different way. Is the eradication on site - I

:11:28.:11:34.

have been told by moving those spores of trees that are damaged,

:11:34.:11:38.

it spreads it around the country, and that could happen. We have had

:11:38.:11:43.

no outbreaks in the North. We don't have any at this stage. Hopefully,

:11:43.:11:47.

we won't have to deal with it. In the South they did burn and it was

:11:47.:11:55.

on site. I can confirm that with the member. For me, it is about

:11:55.:12:03.

protecting our native species and the hurly makers. We have found a

:12:03.:12:10.

way forward that will allow them to make hurls way into the future.

:12:10.:12:13.

The Agriculture Minister, Michelle O'Neill, with a sporting offer to

:12:13.:12:15.

the DUP's Paul Girvan. The Education Minister has rejected

:12:15.:12:17.

DUP criticisms of his handling of computer glitches in primary

:12:17.:12:22.

schools. In a statement about his aims for education, John O'Dowd

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also told the Assembly that while most teachers are excellent, there

:12:25.:12:32.

are some who need retraining or are not effective any more. On 17th

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October the Chief Inspector of the department's education training

:12:37.:12:40.

inspectorate launched the annual report on the state of the

:12:40.:12:47.

education system. The inspectorate makes a key contribution to raising

:12:47.:12:53.

standard. It acts as a catalyst for improvement. In the last year, 81%

:12:53.:12:57.

of schools with follow-up inspections had improved one

:12:57.:13:01.

performance level. The report paints an improving picture in our

:13:01.:13:06.

primary schools. A picture that shows that the revised curriculum

:13:06.:13:16.
:13:16.:13:16.

has bedded in well. At Key Stage 2, overall quality was good or better

:13:16.:13:20.

in four-fifths of primary schools inspected. I would like to

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acknowledge the dedication of our primary schools and the improvement

:13:22.:13:28.

that has been delivered. Too many children are not well served. It is

:13:28.:13:33.

very clear from the Chief Inspector's report and from wider

:13:34.:13:38.

evidence that effective leadership and high quality teaching are

:13:38.:13:45.

central to delivering improvement. Now it has been held accountable

:13:45.:13:55.
:13:55.:13:56.

for the outcomes. We need to do more. More to acknowledge the great

:13:56.:14:00.

teachers and develop more of them. And more to challenge and support

:14:00.:14:04.

those who are not as effective as they should be. For that reason, I

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have already announced action to enhance the professional standing

:14:08.:14:14.

of teachers this year. I propose to bring legislation to strengthen the

:14:14.:14:17.

role of the General Teaching Council as the professional body in

:14:17.:14:21.

supporting teachers and upholding the highest professional standards.

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We will also support the continuing price of the development of

:14:26.:14:29.

teachers through a new strategy for teacher education that will focus

:14:29.:14:39.

on attracting the right people into teaching. I also want to announce

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that as part of our work to learn from the best, the North will be

:14:44.:14:49.

participating in a major review by the Organisation for Economic Co-

:14:49.:14:52.

operation and Development, OECD, looking at how assessment and

:14:52.:14:56.

evaluation systems deliver improvement force pupils. Our

:14:56.:14:59.

experience will help others learn from our experience. Importantly,

:14:59.:15:05.

it will also help us to learn from others, too. It will involve an in-

:15:05.:15:15.

depth review of our education system carried out by independent

:15:15.:15:21.

experts from other OECD countries. It seems right after all that if

:15:21.:15:24.

you expect our schools to be inspected and evaluated and to

:15:24.:15:30.

respond with action to build on strength, we should expect to

:15:30.:15:36.

subject our system as a whole to similar scrutiny. You used

:15:36.:15:40.

"exciting development". There will hard I'll be few teachers who will

:15:40.:15:44.

be sitting on the edge of their seat as a result of the content of

:15:44.:15:53.

what is in the Minister's speech. He has tried to expand on the

:15:53.:15:58.

statement that he made last year. I do have a concern, Minister,

:15:58.:16:03.

however, that teachers listening to this today will be of the opinion

:16:03.:16:09.

that they are being asked to pick up the tab for the failures of the

:16:09.:16:14.

department rather than addressing the issues which are currently in

:16:15.:16:20.

our educational system. It always amazes me how the member manages to

:16:20.:16:23.

evaluate what the outside world is thinking. There will be different

:16:23.:16:28.

views on what I have said today both in the teaching profession and

:16:28.:16:33.

parents and also on boards of governors. I'm not pointing the

:16:33.:16:36.

finger at teachers here. We have a collective responsibility to

:16:36.:16:40.

improve the educational outcomes of our young people and within the

:16:40.:16:43.

collective responsibility there is a role for teachers. And I have

:16:43.:16:47.

said in my statement the vast majority of our teachers are

:16:47.:16:52.

excellent. However, we have to accept that there's teachers out

:16:52.:16:56.

there who require retraining and there's teachers who are no longer

:16:56.:16:59.

effective. I don't believe we have the mechanisms in place to deal

:16:59.:17:03.

with that quickly enough to make an impact. I want those discussions to

:17:03.:17:11.

continue. I also set out a challenge for myself as Minister. I

:17:11.:17:16.

have called in OECD to inspect our education system. The education

:17:16.:17:22.

system I am in charge of. The buck stops with me. OECD are coming to

:17:22.:17:26.

inspect my role as Minister and the policies I have delivered. I don't

:17:26.:17:34.

think I can be any more open and transparent than that. At the close

:17:34.:17:44.

of play, around 100 schools were facing difficulty. Their computer

:17:44.:17:47.

experts tell me they have identified a problem in the system

:17:47.:17:51.

and they have identified a way to resolve that problem. And they are

:17:51.:17:57.

running further tests before they put that into the system. We don't

:17:57.:18:02.

have wide scale problems. We do not have a crisis. We have a difficulty

:18:02.:18:05.

and a problem. The Education Minister, John O'Dowd.

:18:05.:18:08.

As we heard from Mark Devenport earlier in the programme, the

:18:08.:18:11.

Assembly voted in favour of reducing the voting age to 16.

:18:11.:18:13.

Changing the law remains the responsibility of the Government in

:18:13.:18:17.

Westminster but today at Stormont, the DUP was the only main party not

:18:17.:18:24.

calling for a change. I have been extremely politically active and

:18:24.:18:29.

aware since my early teens but was only entitled to a vote three years

:18:29.:18:33.

ago. I want to ensure young people are given a greater say. The

:18:33.:18:38.

argument that older people know what is best for younger people was

:18:38.:18:42.

used to deny women the vote in the 1900s. This motion should be a

:18:42.:18:45.

motion of confidence in the younger generation. I urge everyone to

:18:45.:18:51.

support it. To those who don't, it shows the fear of becoming

:18:51.:18:57.

irrelevant. I can't help but notice a huge reason for political

:18:57.:19:01.

detachment is the very make-up of this Chamber. There is a real

:19:01.:19:05.

perception that this Chamber is male and middle-aged and too much

:19:05.:19:09.

so. It is time for change. Can I say that whilst the people who are

:19:09.:19:15.

involved in the vote at 16 movement are clearly well educated, clearly

:19:15.:19:19.

well motivated and take an interest in the political process - there is

:19:19.:19:24.

no doubt of that - I don't think that that can be said for the vast

:19:25.:19:28.

majority of 16-year-olds across the country. I don't think that every

:19:28.:19:31.

16-year-old will be watching proceedings today with a huge

:19:31.:19:37.

degree of interest. The party is opposed to voting at 16. Could he

:19:37.:19:41.

explain is his party united in this? We are given to understand

:19:41.:19:47.

that one of your MPs does support voting at 16 so is that a united

:19:47.:19:50.

position, or...? I think that members are able to hold their own

:19:50.:19:54.

individual views on this. I don't think that would be unique. The

:19:54.:19:58.

Assembly party here is united on this vote. We don't believe in

:19:58.:20:05.

voting at 16. I could list the number of things you cannot do at

:20:05.:20:13.

16. You cannot drive, you can't rent out films such as Robocop. So

:20:13.:20:17.

the reason that society has said you can't do that is because of

:20:17.:20:20.

protection. It is somewhat ironic that some of the individuals here

:20:20.:20:25.

today who will argue to give 16- year-olds more responsibility are

:20:25.:20:29.

the very people who also argue and supported raising the smoking age

:20:29.:20:38.

up to 18 and want to have further restrictions on young drivers.

:20:38.:20:42.

Another aspect is the issue of citizenship training. Our young

:20:42.:20:48.

people are being taught in our schools about the importance of

:20:48.:20:52.

voting. What happens at present, they are given this information,

:20:52.:20:56.

many come 16, they leave school, and it is a minimum of two years

:20:56.:21:00.

before they have an opportunity to exercise their vote. They forget

:21:00.:21:03.

what they have learnt at school and they haven't had a chance to

:21:03.:21:08.

exercise it. How much better would it not be having gone through your

:21:08.:21:11.

citizenship training that you were presented at the first chance of an

:21:12.:21:16.

election to exercise that vote and participate? The habits learnt in

:21:16.:21:20.

our younger years tend to be what follows on in our latter years. It

:21:20.:21:25.

is vital we encourage more people to vote. If young people are able

:21:25.:21:31.

to go and fight wars, they should be entitled to vote for the

:21:31.:21:36.

Government that would send them. I do think that I am fed up hearing

:21:36.:21:40.

politicians say young people are apathetic. They aren't interested

:21:40.:21:44.

in politics. I often speak to young people as do many people in this

:21:44.:21:48.

House. They are far from apathetic. They are very, very interested in

:21:49.:21:54.

many issues in society. One thing they are not interested in is how

:21:54.:21:59.

this political process and these bodies engage with them and attempt

:21:59.:22:03.

to try to encourage them to become involved in politics. None of us

:22:03.:22:07.

know for certain whether such an extension would lead to a

:22:07.:22:11.

significant increase in young people voting. We need to qur and

:22:11.:22:19.

implement measures that deal with - - everyone in this chamber should

:22:19.:22:28.

agree with me that that is a good thing. It certainly is not a reason

:22:28.:22:31.

to deny politically active 16-year- olds their democratic rights.

:22:31.:22:32.

The Alliance Party's Stewart Dickson.

:22:32.:22:36.

Joining me now is one of the proposers of that motion, the Green

:22:36.:22:40.

Party's Steven Agnew. Why does lowering the age of voting to 16

:22:40.:22:44.

make sense in your view? I think more and more young people are

:22:44.:22:48.

engaged in politics. We are doing citizenship courses in schools. We

:22:48.:22:54.

do have a problem of 18 to 25-year- olds voting and research suggests

:22:54.:23:03.

that 16s is a much better age to get younger people engaged. At 16,

:23:03.:23:08.

you are in school, you can be in school getting registered to vote,

:23:08.:23:17.

it is time - you are talking - so make it real. When we look at

:23:17.:23:21.

things, we had a debate about the age of criminal responsibility. We

:23:21.:23:26.

say young people are responsible at the age of ten for their actions.

:23:26.:23:31.

At 16, we are arguing you are not responsible enough to vote. At 16,

:23:31.:23:36.

you are well enough informed. they interested? Critics of the

:23:36.:23:41.

idea say there is a huge amount of apathy as far as 18 to 25-year-olds

:23:41.:23:44.

are concerned. Where is the evidence that 16 and 17-year-olds

:23:44.:23:47.

will take the opportunity to vote? I remember being 16. I remember all

:23:47.:23:51.

the young people I went to school with and went on to university with.

:23:51.:24:01.
:24:01.:24:02.

Young people are the most energetic, passionate opinionated group. This

:24:02.:24:07.

is a time when you are exploring all these thing. You have the time

:24:07.:24:15.

to. You can research them. So they are interested. There has been a

:24:15.:24:21.

failure of politicians to engage young people and to reflect their

:24:21.:24:31.
:24:31.:24:31.

views. OK. You have to address the issues that matter to young people.

:24:31.:24:37.

OK. You won the motion today, the vote 51 to 29. What happens now?

:24:37.:24:40.

You hand this over to Westminster and there is no guarantee that

:24:40.:24:45.

Westminster will do anything about it? There is a Private Members'

:24:46.:24:50.

Bill in the House of Lords looking at lowering the voting age. We are

:24:50.:24:55.

sending a clear message that in the Northern Ireland Assembly, they

:24:55.:24:57.

support the reduction. Steven Agnew, thank you.

:24:57.:24:59.

Legislation which will reform the welfare system has been the source

:24:59.:25:02.

of significant controversy here at Stormont in recent weeks. Well,

:25:02.:25:04.

last week, the Social Development Committee took evidence on whether

:25:04.:25:08.

or not the bill is compliant with human rights legislation, as we can

:25:08.:25:15.

hear now in our weekly look at committee business. I must record

:25:15.:25:20.

that the Commission is disappointed that there is a lack of evidence

:25:20.:25:24.

that the department has undertaken the required human rights scrutiny

:25:24.:25:30.

of the bill. We noted that last Monday that the Minister for social

:25:30.:25:33.

development advised the Assembly that the department had conducted a

:25:33.:25:37.

full analysis of the bill against the European Convention on Human

:25:37.:25:41.

Rights. The Commission would point out to you that the department is

:25:41.:25:45.

obliged to analyse the bill against all relevant human rights standards

:25:45.:25:48.

in the Treaty obligations in the Council of Europe and United

:25:48.:25:51.

Nations systems, not just on the European Convention. This

:25:52.:25:55.

commission's focus is testing the bill against human rights standards

:25:55.:25:58.

and not the politics of welfare reform. The Commission can support

:25:58.:26:02.

the stated aim of the bill to assist people into work. The right

:26:02.:26:08.

of people to work is recognised in the European social charter. The

:26:08.:26:13.

measures included within the bill intended to assist and encourage

:26:13.:26:18.

individuals in exercising the work however must take into account the

:26:18.:26:22.

particular circumstances of the individual. On the issue of

:26:22.:26:32.
:26:32.:26:33.

sanctions, paragraphs 28 to 38, we have raised concerns on the

:26:33.:26:37.

potential for the sanctions regime relating to the various work-

:26:37.:26:44.

related requirements, our concerns are about these being imposed

:26:44.:26:49.

unduly harshly with the result that an individual may become destitute.

:26:49.:26:53.

The bill does contain numerous safeguards that the sanctions

:26:53.:26:57.

should not be imposed without good reason. And that those who have had

:26:57.:27:02.

a sanction imposed upon them may apply for a hardship payment. But

:27:02.:27:06.

our concerns about this still remain. It says here as part of the

:27:06.:27:10.

process for bringing the bill to the Executive, my department's

:27:10.:27:19.

already conducted a full analysis of the proposals contained. Then it

:27:19.:27:25.

goes on to detail the various articles. But I finish - the

:27:25.:27:29.

department's view and mine is that the bill is compatible with the

:27:29.:27:37.

Convention rights as defined in Section 1. That view has been

:27:37.:27:43.

confirmed by the department's solicitors office. Yet you are

:27:43.:27:46.

concerned about the absence of detailed human rights analysis of

:27:46.:27:50.

the bill and its potential implications. Now, either you are

:27:50.:27:54.

right, or he is right? We are not disputing the Minister has

:27:54.:27:58.

undertaken a human rights analysis. In fact, we have noted he has made

:27:58.:28:02.

that remark to the Assembly. The only thing we are drawing to the

:28:02.:28:05.

committee's attention is has the committee seen sight of that impact

:28:05.:28:12.

analysis? Also, with regard... we seen sight? No, we haven't.

:28:12.:28:18.

you requested that? No, we haven't. The Commission did meet with the

:28:18.:28:21.

Minister when ever the Welfare Reform Bill was passing through

:28:21.:28:24.

Westminster and it was made clear at that stage to both the Minister

:28:24.:28:28.

and his officials that the Commission was willing to engage at

:28:28.:28:31.

whatever level it saw fit but in the interim period there has been

:28:31.:28:36.

no approach made by the department. Have you approached the department

:28:36.:28:40.

yourselves? No, we have not. Sammy Douglas and David Russell

:28:40.:28:41.

ending that look at committee business.

:28:41.:28:45.

That's it from Stormont Today for this week, but do make a point of

:28:45.:28:47.

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