07/02/2012 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. 200 years ago, one of English

literature's greatest authors was born. Happy birthday Charles

Dickens. With Great Expectations, let's see what's in the programme

tonight. The old curiosity shop will see its rates cut as a new

Bill speeds through the House. passage of this Bill through the

Assembly will lead to a timely implementation of the measures on

the 1st April 2012 and will go some way to reducing the disz

proportionate rating burden on small businesses. And, what has

been tickling the chamber's Artful Dodger. It's spreading around the

benches. The next we will have the member for North Antrim speaking

Irish. My guest tonight is Ian Coulter of the CBI. You'll probable

remember the Finance Minister, Sammy Wilson, caused some

controversy when he suggested that big business should pay higher

rates to help smaller firms. That Bill passed its final staged in the

Assembly today. Ian Coulter, you represent firms of all sizes. You

weren't in favour of this legislation? That's correct. We

went on record early on that we were against this measure. We

believe, the CBI believes, it's imperative you get the balance

between big and small business correct. We didn't think this was

the way to go about it. Given the big profits of Tesco, IKEA, some of

the stores mentioned, surely it is a fairer way to try to help some of

the smaller firms. We saw figures today that 1,000 shops, small shops,

have closed in Northern Ireland in the last year? Absolutely. Those

small retailers need help. The issue is how to do that? We've,

after having a number of discussions with different

retailers, all sizes and shapes, we are convinced putting a... At the

end of the day, a relatively small amount of money onto these large

retailers sends the wrong message to business. What would be your

solution then? I believe that the best way to do that would be to

look at planning. Understand and agree with the different retailers

around all of the different cities, what do we want in our townships

and city centres? Then plan it accordingly. Slapping tariffs on to

the larger businesss is not the way to do. It it sends the wrong

message. Many people would see the larger businesses as the reason if

they are out of town stores some of the town centre shops have closed

down? That is where the planning needs to come into place. If there

was dialogue with a lot of these retailers and space in the city

centres you could say, we want to fill this space shall how can we do

that? If we looked at the larger retailers we could say, there may

be certain goods you can't sell from these large out of town stores.

There are different ways of doing it. Going back to GB, to lot of

these boards and sending out the message we will charge larger

businesses. Not just retailers, large businesses generally, we will

charge extra amounts is a dangerous message at this moment in time to

send out. You don't think it will really put people off investing

here? I wouldn't underestimate it. When you take it in conjunction

with issues that large employers have at the moment with employment

legislation, procurement and planning processes, it's another

layer of difficulty and the message that those business cos say, is

Northern Ireland really open for business? Is it business-friendly.

At the minute that is very dangerous to do. You might think a

Finance Minister would want to get his hand on more tax raising powers,

but not our Finance Minister, as we'll find out shortly. We start

our look at ministerial questions with the issue of illegal waste

dumping. Alex Attwood, who reveals a little more than he was supposed

to. The Minister is aware of a disgraceful case of dumping in the

Downpatrick area which led to a prosecution just before Christmas

were those responsible were find �121,500. He could send out a clear

message to those involved to demand that those who did that, take every

brick, every stone, every piece of concrete, every oil barrel out of

that ground and process it through a licenced waste disposal site.

That would send a clear message out to the community that we will no

longer tolerate this irresponsible activity. Thank you. I'm aware of

that case as members will be. It is a very serious offence. 9,000

tonnes of illegal waste. Some of which came from the demolition of

Down Hospital. There was a very substantial fine. The member is

quite right, that is only part of the picture. It's half of the

equation. There is now the responsibility in (inaudible) to

clean up the wrong and crime committed in that regard. There are

discussions between the local council and the NIEA in respect of

how that situation is going to be rectified. And, when those

conversations are concluded, then I will advise the members of what the

outcome of those conclusions are. It is a difficult matter because

the irresponsible and criminal behaviour of an individual, of

dumping that waste, we have to remember that the haulier was also

convicted in court, the irresponsible and reckless

behaviour in dumping that waste was dumped near a water course, near a

loch. Therefore, given what might be in the ground. Given there might

be oil contamination a precautionary approach has to be

deployed in order to ensure that waste is disposed of appropriately.

Half an hour, Mr Deputy Speaker, I was at the front steps of the

Assembly where we were launching a Crimestoppers initiative in order

to encourage those who are aware of illegal dumping, be it fuel

laundering or otherwise, to report that to Crimestoppers. Because, I

welcome this, this is evidence beginning to emerge, Mr Deputy

Speaker, that people who are aware of ill legality are beginning, on a

confidential basis, to make that known to the appropriate

authorities including my environmental crime unit. The

purpose of that initiative is to encourage people to provide the

information to allow the government, DoE and the police to bear down on

those involved involved in crime. What does the Minister talk about

when he gets together with treasury colleagues in London, football,

music? No, it it seems not. I have raised a number of important

economic and financial issues with the Chancellor and treasury

ministers over the last six months. The issues raised have been wide-

ranging. They include corporation tax, air passenger duty, levy

credit scheme, bank lending, enterprise zones, the budget

exchange scheme and the Olympics. As a result of the engagement on

those issues, we have -- now have got the ability to carry money over

from one year to the next. �60 million to deal with pressures next

year. Something we didn't have this time available to us this time last

year. The Olympics funding issue has been resolved. We got money

from, that as did Wales and Scotland. The government is working

on the devolution of air passenger duty for direct haul flights from

Northern Ireland, which, of course, will have considerable bearing on

our ability to attract inward investment. I was wondering if the

Minister had further discussions with regard additional fiscal

powers coming to the Assembly bar the ones he outlined with regard to

corporation tax. It would be beneficial if we had a response of

any conversation? First of all, I think the range of taxation that

we've discussed is quite wide- ranging. Personally, I do not want

to see the devolution of a huge amount of taxation to Northern

Ireland. Two reasons, first of all because we are a unionist, I don't

want to see Northern Ireland separate from the rest of the

United Kingdom. Scottish nationalists Irish National lists

might want that. As a democratic unionist I don't want. It secondly,

there are good economic reasons for not seeking that kind of devolution.

Don't forget, the devolution of tax and tax raising powers to Northern

Ireland, then lumbers Northern Ireland with all of the uncertainty

in that tax revenue if things go well we benefit from the increased

tax revenues. If things go badly, we suffer from the reduction in tax

revenues. To try and plan any kind of public spending programme, with

that kind of uncertainty built in, would make life very, very

difficult and that's one of the reasons why it is important, I

believe, not to have that uncertainty built in through the

massive devolution of a whole range of taxes to Northern Ireland.

Thank you, very much, Mr Speaker, Deputy Speaker. Question Number 6

to the Minister? I see it's wearing off on the member... It's spreading

around the benches. The next we will have the member from North

Antrim speaking Irish if we are not very careful. The rates bill went

through today using what is known as accelerated passage. That means

it doesn't go to the committee stage. Here's the thoughts of the

Finance Committee's Deputy Chair, Dominic Bradley. Mr Speaker, on

behalf of the finance and personnel committee, I welcome the final

stage of the rates admendment bill, recognising that the passage of

this bill through the Assembly will lead to a timely implementation of

the measures on the 1st April 2012. It will go some way to reducing the

disportion nait rating burden on small businesses during this is

difficult economic climate. The department of finance and personnel

originally briefed the committee on the consultation proposals on the

large retail levy on the 8th June 2011, advising that it intended to

seek accelerated passage for the rates admendment bill. In

supporting the implementation of this bill, the committee continues

to be mindful of the recommendations it made regarding

the ongoing work to be taken forward by the department. The

department is to carry out an evaluation of the existing small

business rates relief scheme and will make any necessary changes to

the scheme in time for rates bills in 2012/13. In relation to the

ministerial amendments it will be important there is an evaluation of

the effectiveness of the measures, in relation to empty property

relief. An assessment also of uptake, the extent of any

displacement and whether it is proving to be effective, in terms

of getting empty shops back into business again. Looking back there

at what Sammy Wilson said about not wanting extra tax raising powers.

What do you think business people I think it is important to

distinguish be debate about corporation tax around that debate.

I think it is absolutely critical that we stay on message and on

focus in the debate about corporation tax and do not stray

off course and talk about other powers. I do believe the

corporation tax debate is the single most important issue facing

Northern Ireland and the economy today. What about Scottish

independence and then moved to a referendum? Do you think it will

put on a longer finger? I hope not. Every single Scottish business

organisation has come out against Scottish corporation tax being

devolved and reduced. I do not personally think -- I think

personally the Scottish economy is not the same as ours. I think ours

is a special case. Our negotiations should move forward and get a

decision this summer. His Sammy Wilson write about not having

further powers, that it would lead to too much uncertainty, that we

are better sticking with the big cheques we get an divvying bat out

as best we can? I suspect what he is doing is diffusing the argument

at this stage and doing what we should all be doing and focusing on

corporation tax. To be frank, the CBI is so focused on the

corporation tax issue, we are not looking at other issues.

A MLAs have called for a more joined-up approach to ensure that

roads and sewage systems are completed in new housing

developments. There are around 3,000 roads here which have not

been completed for the correct standard for the Roads Service to

take up ownership of them. Confidence in the system needs to

be re-established and residents who are at present suffering from a

flawed system need protection. As more problems are exposed, a do-

nothing approach is not appropriate. The whole system does not have to

be dismantled, but changes are needed to be made to make it fitter

for progress -- fitter for purpose. I think there is a lack of joined-

up legislation. The Roads Service have to wait a considerable time.

There seems to be this disconnect between the role of the local

authorities, the role of the Roads Service, the role of the water

service and this is causing massive frustration for the residents. As

other speakers have said, many residents are living on the States

for 10 or 20 years, the roads have still not been adopted and the Suez

have not been adopted. There is also a cross-departmental issue

because we have various departments. The roads system may be responsible

for the roads and so it but then you have the Department of

Environment and local government to enforce the rules and make sure the

different actions are taken so they can get the development correct for

the start of the development. aware that the committee for

regional development has established an inquiry into an

adopted roads and that the inquiry will include a review of the bond

system and how it works. I welcome, Mr Speaker, members who raised the

example of how the process works in the Republic of Ireland and other

jurisdictions and I agree that and suggest that this should be

included in the committee's inquiry. I also recognise the role of others

in any such investigation, such as the Department of Environment and

justice, local councils and the representative bodies. In

conclusion, I would not intend to carry out a separate review of

bonds before the committee inquiry has been completed, but as the

Minister for roads and water policy, I will ensure that my officials are

available to the committee in the process of this inquiry. I can

assure members that Roads Service and Northern Ireland Water will

continue to enforce legislation to offer as much certainty as possible

to new home owners who find themselves in this situation.

With me now is the DUP Jim Wells. After the debate today, do you feel

reassured that there will be some movement? I thought the Minister's

response was quite low-key but I think he is waiting until the

committee reports on this issue. We know there are thousands of people

in Northern Ireland marooned in the States tonight and some do not have

adopted roads or sewage systems. That is intolerable. We need to

spend some money to get the state up to standard. Would you like to

see a complete overhaul of the bond system? Something has to be done

because some of these have been outstanding for 20 years. In 1982,

the bond was taken out a one case, and it has not been used and that

is unacceptable. I hope the committee will recommend strong

changes in the legislation to stop this nonsense which has been going

on for far too long. How do get developers to bring the roads up to

the correct standards if they have run out of money? That is the

problem because a lot of developers have gone into liquidation because

of the credit crunch. You cannot redeem the bond if the work is

ongoing. There are estate in Downpatrick where there are three

occupied houses and 20 empty and and still that development is

completed, you catch justified as releasing the bond -- Until that

development is completed. The bond is kept in an independent source.

If the developer has gone out of business, the money is available

but that is a problem. People in all constituencies and All Party

seemed to have examples of this? Every part of Northern Ireland has

this problem. Tickly areas which have had a boom time in development.

There are some houses with no sewage system at all. The bond

system could not sort that out. I feel for people because their

houses are unsaleable. That is bad enough but they have also had the

dramatic drop in value anyhow. If you are going to deliver for people,

you have to do something about this issue. What about the speed of it

because if you go out now, as Danny Kennedy said, and have this inquiry,

it is putting it all a bit further on down the line? It is but the

inquiry will be quite quick in its reporting. The problem is, we have

to get it right because there are difficult technical issues to be

dealt with. I would like to think this time next year, we would have

had a resolution to this which would provide some relief to hard-

pressed families living in difficult circumstances. Should the

Executive Stepping and give some money to these developments,

particularly the ones you have mentioned which have been going on

for ten years? No, because of the Executive did this it would send an

at messaged irresponsible developers who would think the

state would step in and rescue the system. People who built these

estates, ultimately, the bond they have secured should be used to fund

the work. The state should not pick up the tab. While you're here, I

want to ask you about your former party minister, Ian Paisley. The

first and Deputy First Minister have issued a statement calling on

people to pray for Dr Paisley. would concur with that. The whole

country is concerned about his health. He has been a great leader.

We all hope and pray he will be back to health and strength. I

would concur entirely with what Peter Robinson said.

Thank you. Courts here recently secured the first conviction for

human trafficking. There are plans for wider powers to be introduced

by the Department of Justice to meet Annie Sempill director. Today,

MLAs got a chance to voice their feelings on the issue -- to meet

and the EU direct To. A recent estimate that there 88

brothels in estimation -- in operation across the North. The

trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation does exist in

our communities. It exists in our cities, towns and villages. It may

be concentrated in cities but let us be under no illusion, it happens

right across our rural and urban communities. Human trafficking is

the third most profitable illegal organised trade in the World Today.

It is a modern-day slavery which generate profits from human

suffering and represents a vulgar abuse of the fundamental human

right of freedom. Mr Speaker, I welcome the recent news of the

first conviction for human trafficking in Northern Ireland and

commend all those involved in the process which brought about this

conviction. I hope this serves as warning to all those currently

involved or facilitating human trafficking that they will be

pursued by the full rigour of the law and our society will not

tolerate such horrors. Human trafficking represents one of the

greatest evils our society faces. Five years ago, this issue was not

on the radar. Sadly, today, it is becoming more and more prevalent.

There needs to be a piece of work done to truly identify how serious

a problem this is. Last year, there were 23 victims rescued who had

been involved in human trafficking. Five of these had been involved in

forced labour and 18 of them had been used for sexual exploitation.

The majority of those who were arrested were from the Chinese

community and it demonstrates that the organised gangs that are

involved in this, some on local to Northern Ireland, but this is again

an organised crime gang on a global scale.

That motion was passed. Could the north coast and the Glens of Antrim

become a national park? Up until now, all the talk has been about

the words getting -- the Mournes getting the status. But the Glens

Heritage Trust came to showcase what it has to offer. There are

currently three areas of outstanding natural beauty or ANOBs

within its boundaries. The acting chief executive believes the

spectacular landscape along the north and east coast would make it

an excellent candidate. I think local authorities are behind the

concept of a national park but again, if there is no support, we

do not have to go for that. Of course, a national park would bring

a better foothold than a ANOB. The local people and think do see the

benefits in the concept of a national park. Farmers have to be

including the process in projects because they are the ones who look

after the landscape. The beauty of the landscape in Northern Ireland,

is, thanks to the people who work the land, is a living landscape so

they need to be part of the concept, they need to be reassured that some

of the issues they have will not affect them.

What else has been going up here? I caught up with Martina who said we

are a step closer to knowing what will happen to members' pay. There

is a three-person panel of experts looking at the issue. I'm told the

report is in the final stages. It will not be published until March.

Some of the proposals include bringing members' paid possibly

into line with regional assemblies. There are concerns looking at

issues of mileage. What about the Assembly Commission are for

Standards? When will we see that post filled? It looks like there

will be a delay in that. That post is there. Be new commissioner is

supposed to ensure that MLAs uphold the highest standard of integrity

in public life. There was an advertisement for the job and I am

told a dozen people applied and there was a short list of a few

names but they did not find anyone suitable so they will the advertise

it. And apparently they are upset with the media, what have we done?

Apparently it is not the coverage of the map marry a fair, it is the

fact that the media did not cover 21 gun salute at Hillsborough

Castle yesterday in honour of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. It is not

our fault because the media were not told about this so they had no

opportunity to cover it so it is a case of please don't shoot the

messenger. Let's go back at the issue of areas

of outstanding natural beauty and tourism. It is a big issue this

year? At the CBI annual dinner we are building the whole night around

the next 12 months and how businesses, when they are dealing

with their customers and suppliers, make them aware and give them a new

message to send out. Is that something we need to address? It

has not been talked about that match but customer-service. If you

want people to come, you want them to have a warm welcome but also

given a service that they deserve? Certainly, those in the hospitality

service would say customer-service skills have not been designated as

a priority service and a priority skill. If we are going to go after

tourism, customer-service is key. And opening hours, there has been

some criticism on a Sunday or the bank holidays, a lot of the shops

and other interesting places for people to visit are closed? I think

it is improving but I think if we are going to compete on a European

scale and European stage, we have to be consistent. Customers will

have an expectation and they will want to have that expectation met.

Are these long-term jobs? Yes, I think they are. The Irish model

have done well with tourism. I think there is great potential. We

are moving ahead and have done great things. The MTV awards were

first class. The events which have been planned for the next 12 months

of first class. Business has to get behind it. Thank you for being our

guest. That is it from Stormont tonight.