12/09/2011 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to a new term of Stormont Today with me, Tara Mills.

The stormy weather outside made it hard to believe this was the first

sitting of the chamber after the summer holidays, and it was an

issue much-debated away from storm was during the recess that took up

the main time of the day, university tuition fees. I can now

confirm that tuition fees for local students in Northern Ireland will

be capped at local levels, subject only to inflation increases. But

how will the funding gap be filled? And the ayes have it, just who are

the new faces on the walls at Stormont? We have the President of

We learned today where the Minister for higher education will find the

money to freeze tuition fees here. Or did we? There will be no cuts to

frontline services, no impact on further education and a review of

the education maintenance allowance. So how will the �40 million gap we

have heard so much about be filled? This is what he told members.

decisions reached by the Executive last week mean that I can now

confirm that higher education tuition fees for local students in

Northern Ireland will be capped at current levels, subject only to

inflationary increases. A funding package has been put in place to

address the resulting budgetary pressures while ensuring the stable

funding of the higher education sector. My concerns are to ensure

Northern Ireland continues to have a world-class higher education

system, and that access to university is not determined by the

ability to pay. As we look to grow our economy, and take full

advantage of the economic opportunities coming our way in the

near future, it is critical that we support and recognise the role of

higher education in producing school graduates. Today's

announcements on tuition fees and funding for higher education

demonstrates that we are delivering on these policies and commitments.

These decisions are a clear indication that the Executive is

working in Northern Ireland for our future students and graduates, for

their families and indeed the wider economy. Cash-strapped students

have welcome today's's announcement. With me to look at the small print

of what the announcement really means is Adrian pelts. Thank you

for joining us. You are pretty pleased? We are delighted, and

certainly myself and the other students across Northern Ireland

will be delighted after a summer of uncertainty when there were so many

questions around tuition fees, so many people asking what the

Minister would do. So today really has quelled all those questions,

and we are delighted. There are still going to be tough decisions

ahead for students, and tough competition. So Italy. What we need

to look at is the wider picture in Northern Ireland, and think what

concerns me the most is the question over EMA. What the

Minister has done is not looked at a wider picture, and he has not

necessarily placed the writer meant a value on further education, and

they think certainly for myself, I was a further education student,

and I worry about the future for further education in Northern

Ireland. But he has said there will be no cuts. Certainly there will be

no cuts, but they're also won't be any extra investment, so we have to

ask ourselves how the sector is supposed to grow. I would ask the

question, with a group of students as big as 150,000, how exactly will

refund their futures when there is no money going into their further

education budget. The cap will not be increased by as much as the

Minister had initially hoped and planned for. Do think that is going

to create havoc for a lot of students? May be the less well able

students who will have got in at the tail-end, through the clearing

system? I think we are going to see a huge demand in the next 12 months

for higher education places. I'm disappointed that the Minister

didn't make any announcement about more places for students. In

Northern Ireland we have the biggest demand for places at our

universities, and students on the lower rungs could be forced out

with no place to go. Further education has always been one of

the areas that tends to mop up students that weren't necessarily

able to get into university. So in terms of the widening access and

widening participation strategy, I have great concerns about the

future. Stay with us, and we will talk more later in the programme.

Now back to the chamber, and the Regional Development Minister Danny

Kennedy had the honour of answering the first Ministerial Questions of

the new term. He said he recognised the benefits of improving Cycling

facilities, and pointed out the road surface has a target to

quadruple the number of bike trips by the end of 2015. But he couldn't

resist poking a bit of fun when the SDLP's Martin McGuinness also a

question on the provision of cycling lanes. Perhaps he could

indicate on his own line of thought, and perhaps he could use a cycling

analogy to say whether or not he wants to ride to the rescue of the

SDLP, Warwick least get his spoke I will ensure that the member

receives that information as quickly as possible. From bikes to

planes, and the Minister told Mitchell McLaughlin that he doesn't

share the enthusiasm for Northern Ireland's strategy. There is

widespread concern on the issue of air passenger duty. If it is a

revenue and taxation matter, which I know is being pursued by

Executive colleagues, I am aware of those issues, and would seek to see

that resolved as quickly as possible. I don't share his

enthusiasm for an All Ireland approach at this point. We would be

sensible to wait. We would seek to influence the report by the

Department of Transport in London. Mr Speaker, I thank the Minister

for his response in terms of any All-Ireland aviation strategy. Were

he ensure that they will offer to a central government in any

discussion about aviation strategy a much more practical approach,

which is the close proximity that we have in all of Northern Ireland

to the Air Show and Strathclyde region? I accept the point that the

member makes, and what we want to do is concentrate on how that

strategy, win in place, will impact on Northern Ireland. And indeed the

travelling public of Northern Ireland. I think that will be the

first used for part of what we discuss. Then it was back to terra

firma with a bump, particularly if you are on a country road.

Given the state of many of our rural roads, it is imperative that

a budget is made to keep the roads up to standard. I have great

sympathy for the argument that the member makes, and as someone who

shares the same constituency and can see it first hand, the impact

of the lack of structure and maintenance. The Budget that I have

inherited and am now expected to manage has over the next four years

a shortfall of some �210 million in terms of structural maintenance.

Obviously that is a huge sum of money, and it is particularly

difficult over the next couple of years. I will of course make

representations and keep the issue in the attention of Executive

colleagues. But the Executive continues to take decisions, and

the most recent decision about student fees, aside from the merits

of that decision, means that my budget has been further cut, that

undoubtedly will reflect in some shape or form on roads maintenance.

So there are competing priorities, we are all aware of them, and

certainly and patently aware of the need to maintain a road

infrastructure that makes it safe for people to travel on the roads

of northern Ireland. Her later during the session, the Minister

said he was reluctant to place a specific dates on the timing for a

rapid transit system for west and east Belfast, although he did so

the target date is 2017. Then Steven Farrer was back to answer

questions on the proposed merger of Stranraer a teacher training

college at Queen's University. student population has come from

the local background. There a significant representations around

that, and certainly the ethos, we will have a discussion as to

exactly what that entails, will be carried through in terms of the

merger, if indeed that is what we do take forward. Proper

consideration will be given to all of the different face interests.

Can I ask the Minister if the post merger will lead -- the proposed

merger will lead to savings? think the key point to stress is

the urgent need for investment in the college, and also to make the

college financially sustainable. I want to stress the only viable

means by which this can be done would seem to be the proposal in

terms of the merger with Queen's University. We are talking about

some 16 million in terms of capital, and I saw for myself last week the

dilapidated state of some buildings, and some have been condemned and

were beyond use. So in the event this doesn't go ahead, that short

for in terms of that investment will have to be found, and there is

no money available. We have discussed finance today. So that

would remain an unresolved issue if we did get this merger. Thank you,

Mr Speaker. I joined with the Minister in acknowledging the need

for investment on the college site, and I welcome his commitment to

identifying and acknowledging that need. I specifically asked to the

Minister, Mr Speaker, if he would give the House at commitment that

teacher training will continue at both sites, and that will remain

the policy of the department. Queen's University and St Mary's

are independent institutions, and these decisions are for them to

take. Funding will be made as appropriate to all of those, and

obviously we have the potential for a merger, and creating a school of

education at Queen's. That is something we are focused on at the

moment. More now on those tuition fees, and the Minister employment

and learning is here along with committee chaired Basil McCrea.

Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Minister, some people

have described the figures as jiggery-pokery. They can't make

The figures are sound. I had certainty around the budget backing

up the policy. To do anything different would be utterly

irresponsible. The department stands over its figures and the

Finance Minister wouldn't have recommended to the executive we

move ahead unless the figures were sound. I can give that guarantee

the flings -- figures are sound. There's no risk in terms of the

figures. In terms of my department, theres no cuts in terms of fronts

line services, further education, apresentsship, the employment

service. You say that you can save 17 million in internal department

savings. There's two elements to that. There's five million added on

to an existing target of �145 million, that I have to find as

part of the current budget. That will be things through better

management of the estate, as regarding travel and subsistence

for staff and how we control staff vacancies. The remaining �12

million, the notional loan subsidy, whenever we took a decision not to

have fees at �4,500, instead go for �3,500, there's a savings in terms

of loan subsidy, which enables us to balance the books. Would you

have preferred the fees to �4500. There's a consensus in Northern

Ireland that we don't want to raise the fees. Would it have made it

ease tkwror balance the books? Certainly there was an argument for

raising fees. It brings additional revenue in the system. When we have

a situation where we're talking about keeping fees at the current

level, that means that funding gap has to be resolved in terms of the

Northern Ireland block grant. Obviously, there are consequences

from that decision in terms of how it's funded, either my own

department or within the executive as a whole. Basil McCrea, you're

chair of the watchdog committee looking into those figures. You

don't think they add up? I'm not sure yet to be honest. The minister

did say he felt his figures were sound, but they're not particularly

clear. One of the things I'm sure that the committee will want to do

is have a good look at the figures to see exactly what they mean. The

minister also mentioned about risk. He feels there isn't that much of a

risk. Throughout his entire statement there were caveats and

warnings that if things did not work out the way we expected, that

we'd have to look at things again. It's something we need to keep an

eye on. Is that not reality though? Is that not what every budget in

every department is going to face? We don't know how the recession's

going to pan out. We don't know how much money the economy is going to

make. That's a fair point to make. I personally was surprised by the

amount of cuts that were going to have to be found from the

department. You know, we've been talking before the summer about

some of the pressures and it will be interesting just to see how

those work out in reality. The trouble with student flows, the

differential between England and Wales and with Northern Ireland,

the potential for some of our students from Northern Ireland not

being able to get places in Northern Ireland, I think we've yet

to work out exactly how that will play and it could end up to be

difficult decisions for people. There's a range of things that at

the moment we're in wait and see mode. If the economy does go worse,

if the student fees change as drastically, if EMA review doesn't

work the way it's hoped to be worked, all of those things will

cause problems for the minister. I'm sure it's something that we'll

be talking about. The risks are very much less to do with the

finance. The risks lie in terms how you manage student flows. Whenever

we have a situation under devolution, different regions of

the UK, take different decisions in terms of student fees, there is a

conconstituency in terms of student flow that's we will have to manage.

Until we see what happens, it is difficult to speculate around that.

Are next year's students Guinea pigs then? Certainly not. I mean,

we're going through a transition in terms of this. One thing that we're

clear on that we have to do is to charge, the two local universities,

to charge higher fees to students from Great Britain. For some people

this might seem incongruous that we charge different fees. The stark

reality is once we took that level -- decision, there's a major risk

of a flood of applications coming in. If we don't take action, that

will crowd the market out for local students and people will be

complaining about that. We have to act now in order to protect

ourselves in that regard. University of Ulster said they're

going to charge �8,000. proposal is we would pass that

through the Assembly, given the two local universities the discretion

to charge a level of fee and in practice, that would be up to

�9,000. You are talking about that region that Richard barns has

declared. There's a court case pending in Scotland. What if we

have a similar case here? Where does the money come from if they're

successful? The case is largely speculative. I've taken my own

legal advice locally in terms of what we're doing. Legal advice is

only legal advice until it's tested in court. We are confident that

what we're proposing will stand up. If it doesn't, we have to reassess.

Situation. At this stage, it seems promising that we can follow

through on that policy. What about the educational maintsnepbs

allowance? That's something that's already means tested. Would you be

concerned that the review will mean some students will miss out? That's

the very clear direction of travel. There is a considerable amount of

dead weight, that's to say, money being spent that doesn't provide

value in the system. The question is: Are you robbing Peter to pay

Paul? Can you find a way of encouraging people early on in

their careers to stay on in education and still provide them

with the right courses later on in life? I will just say, if you don't

mind, picking up on the issue about student fees for different parts of

the United Kingdom, personally, regardless of what the legal

position is, because I've had a look at it, I do think it's unfair

that you're expecting the taxpayers from England and Wales to give us a

very substantial sum of money, which lets us run this particular

part of the world and when they want to send their students to our

part of the world, we're going to charge them almost three times as

much. I wonder at some stage, in the bigger picture, in the longer

term issue of trying to convince the United Kingdom that we have a

constructive part to play, whether this is good politics. Briefly,

minister? This is devolution working its way through the system.

If we don't go down the line of higher fees for GB students, we run

the risk of a major flood of applications. There is going to be

increased places locally from Northern Ireland based students

already. We're expecting difficulty in meeting that demand. If we have

this influx it's going to be disaster. I will be disappointed if

the committee doesn't follow through on the decision of the

executive. This is essential. It's part of this package. People want

to have lower fees in Northern Ireland. We have to manage the

consequences around that. I only chair the committee, I don't decide

for it. We can't have it both ways. There will be plentsy more time for

debate. Thank you for joining us. In less than an hour's time, we

find out how our political map is to be redrawn. I caught up with our

political editor Mark Devenport. He gave me his assessment of what the

boundary changes have in store. And he explained why love is in the air

in the corridors of Parliament buildings.

The precise detail is under embargo until after midnight. We got a good

idea of the trust of the report. The Boundary Commissioners have

been told to bring the number of local constituencies down from the

current 18 down to 16. This is part of a move across the UK to make it

a smaller Westminster, if you like. There's only so many ways to do

that. We think it's highly likely that south Belfast will disappear

off the political map. Belfast will have just three constituencies. And

that we'll probably lose one of our constituencys in the west of the

province and they'll have to reconfigure things there. This is

not just a Westminster matter, because the same boundaries are

used here at Stormont for elections as they are at Westminster. So

there's going to be an inevitable knock-on effect, if we lose two

constituencies, with six Assembly Members each, this Assembly will be

reduced from 108MLAs to 96. We had the Sinn Fein on Saturday and

Friday night, any Unionist MLAs today offering to hug a Sinn Fein

politician? It has been said that at least one of them joked with a

Sinn Fein counterpart "Are you going give me a hug?" And this

Republican suddenly realised what the joke was all about. Others are

still getting hot under the collar about David Lati mer's appearance.

Gregory Campbell had been on the airways saying he wasn't sure it

was a wise move for the minister to accept Martin McGuinness'

invitation. Now it seems that the DUP MP's analysis was correct.

David Latimer I think will have appealed to moderates who felt he

was right in pursuing it. He hasn't converted many of the hard liners.

The SDLP, the days are ticking down for people to throw their hat in

the ring for the leadership campaign? Yeah, deadline is the end

of the week. So, Alastair McDonald once he's got over the boundary

review, will have to make his mind up about whether he's going to join

Patsy Mcloen there. And also whether any of the young bucks

might put their name forward and also Alex Atwo did. There's a

question over him as a minister now, if a new minister gets a job. Has

he got anything to lose by putting himself forward into the leadership

race? Now the Great Hall at Stormont provides an impressive

welcome to the tens of thousands of people who come through the

revolving door every year. Now it's to become home to three major art

exhibitions every year. Earlier, I met up with the Speaker, Willie Hay,

who brought me on a tour of the exhibition.

It's something of a face lift for the Great Hall, tell us why you've

decided to exhibit these paintings? I've been very keen from 2007, when

I entered the job of Speaker, to open the building up tot public.

Today, we have over 70,000 visitors coming through Parliament buildings.

Certainly the first part of the building here is the front foyer.

Where better to display art than here in the front foyer? Adding

hopefully tot visitor number that's are already coming through the

buildings. Certainly from a public point of view, I think it will

increase visitors. When we look at arts exhibitions here within the

Great Hall. Local heart, is it mostly local? It is. This is an

exhibition in partnership with public works. We will look at doing

other art exhibitions, maybe look at it through the year and -- three

a year, a fairly big arts exhibition. We are careful what

type of art we hang in the building here, but we believe it all adds to

the engagement that we're doing with the wider public across

Northern Ireland. Institutions and Government in the past were very

much closed off and obviously, the building is described as the house

on the hill. Do you think this is, in some way, another step towards

bringing people in and getting even more people to come up and have a

look around? Very, very much so. Anything that we can do in this

building to add tot public coming here at the moment. To have 70,000

in one year, to have thousands of school children through this

particular building, it can only add to what we're trying to achieve

here. The doors are open tot public. It's free to come in, look around

and see what's on offer here in the Great Hall. Here we have a very

unique collection of paintings. That is very much on display. It

will be on display for some months. I'm encouraging the public please

come up and see the exhibition for themselves. Any of the pieces take

your fancy? They do. I must say I walked round them earlier, some of

them are very, very good. Once again, we're very protective of

this area building, just to make sure that we formulate the right

art exhibitions here within the Great Hall. And it's the start of a

new term for lots of different people, but obviously, for the MLAs

up here. Are you going to keep them in check for another term? I think

we will. I may say as well, all our MLAs have been very supportive of

opening the building up tot public and throwing open the front doors

to see exactly the work of the MLAs here and ministers in the Assembly.

That is all good to engage with the wider public in Northern

Irelandment Some -- Northern Ireland. Now a final word, Adrianne

Peltz is still with us. You heard the debate there between the

minister and the chair of the committee, are you reassured by

anything the minister said? certainly reassured with the fact

that they are prioritising young people and investing in higher

education and students. I'm a bit concerned about the question around

EMA. Just to come in on a positive note, something we haven't really

discussed is the issue around student support funds. One of the

key things that's come out of today is the fact that students from

Northern Ireland, who'll be travelling across to GB will be

funded by the department. I think that's incredibly important for

ensuring our students still get the opportunity to go across the water

and broaden their horriezons. We need to remember our students here

also get an extra �225 over and above what their counterparts in

England, Scotland and Wales receive. It didn't sound as if that

guarantee is in place for that long. We clarified it with the minister

earlier. It's three years at the very least. But it might not

continue. So many things depend on how the economy and the budget, how

they all pan out. Rge serge. I think that's incredibly --

Certainly. I think that's incredibly worrying for parents and

students. The sooner we get more questions answered by the minister

the better. Certainly around issues around the maximum students numbers,

certainly around widening participation, there are still so

many areas that we're uncertain about and I think, the sooner we

get those answered the better. cap on student numbers is a big

factor. By increasing, or by decreasing the number of student

place there's are, some of those students, less able students will

miss out. Certainly. Something that both the minister and Basil McCrea

touched on was the flows from GB students coming in. Certainly, we

had huge fears about the number of students that would come in and

potentially squeeze our students out. I think this move to raise the

tuition fees for GB students is certainly going to protect local

students and ring-fence the places. I'm quite delighted about that.