13/05/2013 Stormont Today

in the next half hour: Shared future but no shared decision making.

Reaction to the first and deputy First Minister's statements last

week continued. Is there nothing more you can do to stem the contempt

contemptible so-what attitude to this House? With welfare cuts, the

Assembly debated child poverty. On this too consensus remained elusive.

That study also said clearly, Mr Deputy Speaker, that we face a sharp

increase in child poverty in Northern Ireland, a sharp increase.

The evidence shows that relative child poverty is falling in Northern

Ireland. And here to give his thoughts on that and much more is

the details -- The Detail Steven McCaffery.

First tonight, we learned over the weekend that President Obama will

stop off in Belfast en route to the G8. He tweeted today about how much

he's looking forward to his visit. What will he make of our leaders

when he gets here? One man who isn't too impressed with him is Jim

Allister. I appreciate that this is a matter over which, at best, you

probably have influence rather than control, but last week, again, we

had a classic illustration of the executive ministers, this time the

First Minister and the deputy First Minister, choosing to make a

statement on a criticalically, what they called a critical issue, not to

this House, but to the public media. Indeed no sign of any intent to come

to this House at all today about that matter. Is there nothing more

you can do to stem the contemptible so-what attitude to this House?

THE SPEAKER: Let me say to the member, I have some sympathy for the

point of order that the member has raised. I know the member has an

urgent question to the business at the moment which I haven't taken a

decision on. My clear understanding is that the first and deputy First

Minister is coming to the House tomorrow to make a statement. So

this is why I haven't made my decision on the question that you

have raised. If that is not the case, I certainly will be taking the

members question and it is an issue. I continually encourage ministers to

come to the House here and I think on urgent business and important

business they should be coming to this House. I have some sympathy

with the member. I'm joined by Steven McCaffery from

Dietrich-Smith. We heard -- The Detail. We heard the speak

sympathising that the ministers might come to the House with a

statement on that. Ittuals quite a tough line. It was more than a

passing remark. He spoke at length about how he seems concerned about

the issue. As Jim Allister said it seemed to reach back to the friction

we saw on the View where John O'Dowd got into trouble for the so-what

comment. I think the difficulty for the larger parties is that after the

announcement that they made around a shared future, they now have to set

about trying to ensure all the parties play ball with their plan

for a working party to consider the toughest issues- the flags, parades

and other issues such as dealing with the past. I think while they're

perhaps used to this tension, the larger parties might wouldn't to

invest some time in trying to calm the situation down. Maybe that's

part of what tomorrow's appearance is about. It's interesting that the

other main parties aren't happy then, obviously, others, some of the

smaller parties, Jim Allister was the one making the point there, are

also not happy. I think part of the reason why we didn't see any of

these measures announced earlier over the last year is because there

was a fear that if there were holes in the package it would be pick add

part and quite angrily by parties outside the DUP and Sinn Fein. It's

hard to resist the impression that now the G8 is on its way we have to

fill that void in some shape or form and the larger parties have had to

say look, we have to push ahead. What about the G8? President Obama

we now know coming to Belfast on this visit. He's not been here

before. We don't know precisely when or where. Yeah, as I say, there's

some reference to the fact that his arrival perhaps has some influence

over the talks between the larger parties at Stormont. Setting that

aside, it will be interesting to see him at a public level in terms of

interaction with the public. We have had great scenes in the past with

the Clintons. It will be nice to find out a bit more about that and I

wonder will we get a chance to have the big picture interface with the

public. We had these figures today suggesting the benefit to the

Northern Ireland economy of the G8 could be in and around the figure of

�40 million. Does that stack up for you? Some of the figures were based

on actual facts such as hotel rooms taking up. You tend to come at these

things with scepticism. What will be key will be how the summer goes

there after G8 in terms of what benefit in tourism we can reap from

it. We'll talk to you later in the programme. For now, thank you very

much. Plans for an investment conference in the wake of the G8

summit are already under way. It will be the second such conference

here. The first was in 2008. How successful was that event? Trevor

Lunn wanted to know when he addressed the Enterprise Minister

Arlene Foster during Question Time. The most notable achievement in

terms of investment arising from the 2008 conference was at nounsment by

NYSE October 2009 promoting an additional 325 jobs in addition to

securing first-time advise tights Northern Ireland, the USNI

conference provided the opportunity to advance or accelerate a number of

projects already in the pipeline prior to the event, for example

projects involving Bombardier, Bae aerospace. The sales team continued

to develop key accounts as a result of the May 2008 and October 2010

conferences. I thank the minister for her answers so far. Could I ask

the minister how the outcomes compare perhaps with the expectation

or the targets set in 2008? And how the lessons learned over those five

years might inform the next USNI conference? Of course, when we had

our first conference that was in May 2008 and then the global, worldwide

recession kicked in around October, November 2008. I think the fact that

we made the progress that we did make was very substantial and

indeed, something that we should be proud of. Little did we know at that

time that was going to be the case. We have progressed as I have

indicated a number of projects that were in the pipeline, that may have

taken longer. It's always difficult to assess those things, how much

longer would they have taken had we not have had the USNI investment

conference. I think we can safely say it had a major impact on

bringing attention to Northern Ireland at that particular time and

indeed providing us with a platform to talk about all of the things that

we do intend to talk about when the G8 comes to here in June of this

year. That is the fact that it's a good place to do business. Ties good

place to work and it's a good place to visit. We hope that we get those

messages across. Would the minister care to expand, she touched upon it

herself, the G8 visit. There has been some rumours that the executive

will try to show case the north and try to use that to piggy back for

further economic investment here. Cot minister advise as to what

organisation has been put in place to facilitate that, please? I can

confirm to the chair that it's more than a rumour. It's absolutely fact

that we're going to use the G8 summit to give us a platform because

there will be global attention on our little part of the world between

the 17th and 18th and indeed before that, because of course a lot of the

journalists and tell gagss will have arrived before that and indeed,

we've had many delegations from the countries involved to send sending

out their ambassadors to see what's it all about in Northern Ireland and

indeed in county Fermanagh. My own department, the executive

information service, the Tourist Board, the Northern Ireland office,

Number Ten and other partners including Fermanagh District Council

have been developing proposals to Max miles the opportunity looking at

short-term and indeed longer-term benefits and in particular, to raise

the profile of Northern Ireland to encourage investment and to build

trade links, to create awareness, to change perceptions, to drive visitor

numbers and to stimulate that all important measure of sifb pride. If

I can say to the chair of my committee, it is all about

partnership and working together to make the most out of this huge

event. We've seen the way in which we work together over a short period

of time in the run up to the Irish Open last year. The announcement was

made in January, the avent happened in June. Through partnership working

we made the most out of it. I hope that's what happens in Fermanagh in

June this year Touchlite Arlene Foster. There are many issues

that we know divide the Assembly. Child poverty is one you might

expect to unite everybody. Not so. Today an SDLP motion called for

child poverty legislation specific to Northern Ireland was defeated.

The very sad fact is that we have failed to address the issues of

child poverty and the recent figures do differ and I do accept that. The

recent figures coming from ute Institute of Fiscal Studies say that

there's 26%, 26. 3% of children in Northern Ireland living in relative

poverty. That's compared to 20. 5% in the UK. Children living in

absolute poverty is 28. 5% compared with 23. 1% in the UK. That study

also said clearly Mr Deputy Speaker, that we face a sharp increase in

child poverty in Northern Ireland, a sharp increase. I think that's

something that we need to be very, very concerned about. I rise on

behalf of our party not to support the motion. We are not convinced

that the bringing forward another Child Poverty Act will make a

difference. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointment that the

proposers of the motion have not included recognition of the many

excellent initiatives led by the first and deputy First Ministers to

tackle child poverty. I thank the member for giving way. A number of

contributors have made mention of the initiatives, perhaps he's

intending to illustrate some of those? If not, perhaps he will.

indeed because I know the Opposition from your side of the House will not

do that. So, I have to say that there have already been a number of

programmes which have benefitted disadvantaged families. For example,

the freezing of water rates, free prescriptions, warm home scheme, the

free school meals scheme, the department for social development

has also invested heavily in neighbourhood renewal areas. Deical

continues to invest in sports facilities, all of which helps to

tackle the systemic issues which lead to child poverty. The The tenor

of the debate has been very positive with the acceptance of one attempt

to score political points. We're still listening to cackling from the

side here. I would say that all the parties, I believe, are committed to

eradicating child poverty. We're not trying to moat a target. The target

is total eradication. I note in your contribution he didn't attempt to

address my question in what has OFM/DFM done? Is that cackling I

hear, Mr Deputy Speaker? Or just CAC? The current delay by the social

development minister in bringing the bill for consideration stage, as

well as the inability so far to in any way alter the bill to be

Northern Ireland specific does not fill me with confidence that the

needs of children in poverty are adequately being taken into account.

I think the question to ask is are the measures we take effective? Mr

Sprat is reasonable to outline the things that the executive is doing

and has been done. A number of the things he outlined he outlined what

are and have been independently judged to be regressive measures.

The evidence shows that relative child poverty is falling in Northern

Ireland. However, we understand very much understand how difficult it can

be for those who are living in poverty. I can assure the House that

the targets contained within the Child Poverty Act are very

challenging, with the aim of achieving the elimination of child

poverty. What we now have deputy Speaker is a clear strategy endorsed

by all executive ministers, we have clear arrangements in place to

develop measures of departmental impact and we are delivering

specific programmes which will make a meaningful difference, both to the

immediate and to the longer term needs of the children and young

people. It is about improving their lives not changing statistics. It's

what we are focussed on. I therefore urge members on all sides of the

House to oppose the motion. With me now is one of the proposers

of that motion, Delores Kelly. Thank you for joining us. Were you

surprised there was so much division in the House on this today? Yes, we

didn't anticipate a division vote. We both Sinn Fein and the DUP would

have no objection to set tarring totes eradicate child poverty that

were Northern Ireland specific. fact it was two to one against your

motion. 56 members voted against. Mostly Sinn Fein and the DUP and 28

in favour. We hoping to hold the executive to account in eradication

of child poverty. It looks as though, yet again, Sinn Fein and the

DUP don't wish to be held to account by this Assembly nor by any other

organisation. Need to bring the motion forward? I suppose that's

maybe part of the what the issue is today. There are targets, Jonathan

Bell said relative child poverty in Northern Ireland is falling. Prance

the view from the other side of the House is that today's discussion

wasn't necessary. I would dispute that. I mean, the welfare reform

agenda is only getting under way. There's some 600 million to be taken

out annually out of the Northern Ireland disposable income avail --

availability to families. The Scottish Assembly has introduced a

family fund which we would argue that the minister should look at in

relation to the social protection fund. The other issue is that, we

saw from some of the pictures in the previous report, there weren't many

people in the chamber for much of the discussion. Were you surprised

at that? Yes, though I do know some members said they were watching the

debate from their offices. There seems to be a general malaise around

the place where some members no longer think it worth their while to

come into the chamber. At the end of the day, it seems as if Assmebly

Members' views don't count. I was making the point during the debate

that it's the function of the Assembly to hold the executive to

account. Some members don't get that. We have a malaise amongst

MLAs. It appears to be the case.The Institute for Fiscal Studies says

benefit reforms will have a disproportionate effect here.

There's an argument which Margaret Richie had made in the past in

relation to welfare reform. The conflict is a huge contributor to

the deprivation in many of the areas that continue to suffer

post-conflict. You have to say if MLAs can't get together and agree on

an issue like child poverty and what to do about, it you wouldn't hold

out much hope for agreement on too much else. Well it hasn't been very

good, we're into the third year of this term and Peter Robinson said to

be judged on delivery in this term. It hasn't been optimistic thus far.

One of the things that they have failed to agree on but which would

be a key contributor to tackling child poverty would be a child care

strategy. Yet there's no date for a publication of such a strategy.

Where does this leave us on the wider issue after agreement between

the parties on the way forward? We had this pretty testy discussion

towards the end of the week about a shared future, driven by the two

main parties, much toot nouns of the three other main parties. Were you

surprised by that? Were you surprised by Jonathan Bell and John

O'Dowd on Thursday night an the attitude they adopted? There's a

level of arrogance between the two parties which is breath taking. I

suppose we shouldn't be too surprised whenever you said it in

the context wherever the Justice Minister was appointed and that was

denied it a Nationalist. At that time it was the then junior minister

replied to one of my colleagues" Get used to it." I think the so-what

comment is a further extension of that. Neither Sinn Fein or the DUP

seem to be living up to the aspirations and intention of the

Good Friday agreement which was around inclusive government. Thank

you very much for joining us on the programme tonight.

Now it's that time of year, exam time, and as many A-level students

prepare for the big tests, today the Minister for Employment and Learning

was quizzed on higher education from university places to funding and a

suggested chill factor for Protestants at some campuses here.

would stress eligibility for European Union tuition fee status at

Scottish universities is for the higher education in Scotland. The

Scottish Government has determined it is the responsibility of each

Scottish university to make a decision on a student's eligibility

for the European Union rate of tuition fees by applying residency

guidelines produced by the Scottish Government. Prior to this

presentation of an Irish passport was sufficient for Northern Ireland

domiciled student to be eligible for European Union fee status in

Scotland. From the academic year 2013/14 the Scottish universities

will independently seek to establish whether an applicant has exercised a

right of residence elsewhere in the European Economic Area. Can I ask

what impact the decision to freeze tuition fees in Northern Ireland has

had on university applications? have seen that our decision in

Northern Ireland to freeze tuition fees for our local students has had

a beneficial impact. The number of applications to local universities

has been more or less maintained while applications elsewhere, within

these islands, have seemed to drop off. But by some extent now, those

are the initial figures and in the medium term we may see a

stabilisation in terms of application figures, but the

evidence to date would suggest that our decision locally has certainly

made a major impact in terms of people's decision to go on to higher

education. There are genuine concerns amongst the Unionist

students about equality of opportunity. One example being the

display of Irish language signage within the Coleraine University

students union. Account minister outline his views on this and what

actions he would take to address the issue? Can I first of all say that I

am opposed to any actions in any of our colleges or universities that

would create a chill factor. That said, you do not automatically jump

to the conclusion that the erection of an Irish language sign in a

students union would lead to that conclusion being reached. Those

matters are of course for the universities an the students union

to address themselves, but I do want to stress the point. There is no

hard, solid evidence of a chill factor within our universities.

There's something -- they're something we should be proud of in

that in this still divided society our universities and colleges offer

a genuine, integrated form of education. We should celebrate that

rather than trying to undermine it by whipping up tensions in the

system wherever they don't actually exist. Can I ask the minister what

steps is he now going to take to stop these rumours that are doing a

disservice to those people from the Protestant community who may be put

off bit rumours constantly peddled by members opposite? I think it's

really incumbent on all of us, I include myself in that, to talk up

the, how our universities are genuine, shared and integrated

facilities and to encourage people from all backgrounds that they can

attend such institutions without any fear for their safety or indeed, for

their identity being disrespected. It is important that in saying that

That we recognise that there is an issue of under representation of

young Protestant males from areas of deprivation. That under

representation is not based around any perseived chill factor in the

institutions. That is a feature of lack of attainment and aspiration.

That's something that the widening access strategy is seeking to

address. Today's sitting had to be extended

into the early evening after business ran more than an hour late.

The final motion up for discussion concerned energy costs. It was

proposed by the DUP and praised two of the party's ministers, Arlene

Foster and Sammy Wilson. Here's the proposer.

The first line of this motion recognises that energy costs are of

concern to business and consumers and that certainly is the drive

behind this motion here before us today in this House. First of all,

can I commend the minister and of course her colleague the minister

for finance and personnel for delivering on a result on the carbon

price floor. It will have not been lost to this House that both these

ministers indeed the ministers, but I think credit should be given where

credit is due. Up to 42% of households are in fuel poverty. And

particularly as we witness the weather conditions as they are at

the moment, that is creating more and more difficulties, not just for

people who are on income-based benefits. This is an important

point. But many people who are on lower income and are working,

they're the ones having to make the choices between heating and eating.

Very difficult situation we're in at the moment Touchlite that end, it is

welcome that this derregation from the carbon tax floor price has been

long it coming. While today's motion is somewhat sycophantic in its

praise for ministers, the SDLP will support it. Paul in his moving in a

motion is probably successful in moving up the ranks of the DUP by

now. Maybe you're in line for a ministerial position. I'm hoping

that this doesn't mean that the minister will be moving on any time

soon. I think it is important and all joking aside, I think it is

important where credit is due. A lot of the time in this chamber we are

quick to criticise and rightly so. But we're not very quick to give

credit when it's due as well. We should recognise that. Of course

it's right to acknowledge and to commend the dear gags -- deregation

where it's beneficial. This superficial and largely

self-congratulatory motion tells only a small part of the energy

story in Northern Ireland. And the truth is which this motion does not

address, is that the corner stone of the minister's policy, namely the

single electricity market, is failing. North/south interconnector

and the connection between Wales and the Republic of Ireland because

we're moving in the direction of a market not just on this island, but

on the two islands. Of course that's good news because that's going to

bring more people into the market. Of course I'm talking about the

interconnector. There's point -- there's little point of having it

between Northern Ireland and the republic if we can't share it with

the rest of the United Kingdom. Despite the concept of Jim Allister

the motion was voted through. Steven McCaffery is with me again. Let's go

back to the comments from Delores Kelly of the SDLP a few moments ago.

Malaise among MLAs, it's an interesting point she makes.

Obviously the point has been made for a while that the, the chamber is

dominated by motions, a bit divorced by the feelings on the street. For

that reason, I think the malaise has deepened. Now as we build towards G8

and the announcements from the First Minister and deputy First Minister,

that's a chance to change the mood. But we're back into the summer and

we have to hope that events on the streets during the marching season

don't work against the expectation that there will be a greater degree

of hope zpl. It's depressing when you hear that MLAs are sitting in

their offices watching rather than... I know they have other work

to dirks but rather than taking part in the cut and thrust. When you

consider that on top of the strategy on child poverty, strategies on

racial issues and the gay community, there's a long list that people

aren't coming to the chamber to talk about. Let's talk about shared

future. We discuss today already on the programme. We know there's a

ministerial statement from OFM DMF tomorrow morning on this subject.

What are you expecting? I wonder will it be about formally asking the

parties because they are to be written to To send forward members

to take part in the all-party group. It may be the beginning to involve

the Assembly to chip away at the negativity. I suppose we'll find out

in due course. We'll know this time tomorrow night. Thank you very much.