14/01/2013 Stormont Today

Welcome to the programme. Tonight: United in their condemnation of the

street violence but still divided on the way for it, MLAs debate a

flight protests. The settled status quo should not have been disturbed

but nothing can justify the violence that has been seen on the

streets of Northern Ireland in a recent weeks. What has transpired

in the last couple of weeks is very clearly a challenge to these

institutions, a challenge to these institutions are from people who do

not have a mandate and he represent nobody but themselves. Also, could

there be some hope for businesses who have lost thousands? There is

scope of course within the 2009 Financial Assistance Act to devise

some kind of hardship scheme which would assist businesses, especially

dependent upon the night-time economy. Sharing his insights, our

political reporter Stephen Walker. There were heated exchanges in the

chamber as politicians debated the latest violence surrounding the

Union flag dispute. The First Minister said those who use it as a

weapon to not respect it. He is our duty as politicians to support the

rule of law and the primacy of the democratic process in this part of

United Kingdom. This last weekend has once again seen a protest turn

to violence and disorder on our streets. The police have been

attacked, protesters have been attacked, local communities have

been attacked and no one winds from such conflict but the people of

Northern Ireland as a whole are suffering. The anger over the spark

that started the fire has long since been obscured by the outrage

over the violence that has followed. I know that we are not agreed in

this house on the issue of the Union flag flying at this stage. I

hope at some stage people will be but I will say it once again, the

decision by Belfast City Council to take down the Union flag was, in my

view, a mistake. The timing of it aggravated a bad situation, it was

unnecessary and wrong. The settled status quo should not have been

disturbed. But nothing can justify the violence that has been seen on

the streets of Northern Ireland in recent weeks. Let me ask those who

are involved, what do they think they have achieved? Northern

Ireland's international reputation has been damaged, potential

investors and tourists will be deterred, our local businesses have

been crippled at a time they needed a boost, scores of police officers

have been injured and many of the young people involved in the

violence will emerge from these disturbances with nothing to show

for it. Except a criminal record. I defend, Mr Speaker, anyone's right

to legitimate, peaceful protest but in recent weeks, far too many have

become a mark of violence. Because of the Union flag has been damaged

and not helped. This issue will never be sold on the streets but

only through democratic means. You do not respect a Union flag if you

are using it as a weapon to charge against someone. You are not

showing respect for the Union flag if you need to wear a mask when

carrying it. What works there last is the sight of all the political

parties in this house standing together against those who believe

in violence as a way forward. If we look at the events of the last

couple of weeks, whatever the decision about Belfast City Hall, a

decision when not a stone was thrown, not a petrol bomb was

thrown, not a threat of intimidation was issued. But what

has transpired in the course of the last couple of weeks is very

clearly a challenge to these institutions, the challenge from

people who do not have a mandate and who represent nobody but

themselves. I do not believe for one minute that they speak for the

vast majority of Unionists within our society. These are people who

are associated with the British National Party attack politics,

these are people who are clearly, to some degree, sectarian bigots

and is also quite obvious that the Ulster Volunteer Force in East

Belfast have played their part in the disturbances over the course of

the last couple of weeks. violence that we have seen since

3rd December is wrong on every level. It is wrong legally, morally,

a strategically and tactically. Let us remind ourselves how it began.

On the 3rd December, an unnecessary boat to lower the Union flag at

City Hall, provoking people to take to the streets because they were

angry at a political decision by Sinn Fein, the SDLP and the

Alliance Party. But almost immediately, those who were

protesting through violence had turned matters on their head. My

message to those engaged in violence is very simple - please

stop destroying the argument you are trying to promote. A man as we

seek on our streets serves no purpose. It can never serve a

purpose and we could engage in this chamber about scoring points and we

could even enter an unconscious fears of denial about how this

crisis came about. It didn't come about on 3rd December, it was well-

stocked beforehand. We can duck and dive about the house and whys and

wherefores but in my opinion, Mr Speaker, the most urgent need is TD

escalate the situation and that means protests must stop and start

now. That is a job were the leaders of political unionism and they must

be honest with the people out there, they must tell them that the ways

of the past on these issues are not always going to be the ways of the

future. They will not, and we will not improve the situation with a

one-sided forum. In fact, there is always a danger that a one-sided

approach will escalate the situation. For any leader to demand

that the union flag must fly on their terms and their terms alone,

that is in the past and it is certainly not a parody. Protesters

are challenging the democratic right of politicians to make any

dispensation one of flags that they do not approve of it. The

protesters are denying parity of esteem. The choice of the leaders

of political unionism and it is a choice they have to make here. Mr

Speaker, it would greatly assist at the St 18 of the situation if they

would make that choice now a and make it in the clearest possible

terms. We need to recognise that the violence we saw on Saturday and

the violence in preceding days was at the end of a line which

stretches right back to last summer. Last summer we saw the defiance of

the legitimate and unlawful rulings of the Parades Commission and that

defiance had in some cases political support. In the autumn

time we saw that continuing, we sold 40,000 dubious leaflets

whipping up fear and tension and that was carried out by Unionist

leaders. We have seen in recent weeks since 3rd December so-called

peaceful protests which have been anything but peaceful and anything

but lawful. Many of those protests have had support from Unionist

leaders. Did they not know what happened last summer, did they not

see Clinton Street and Donegal Street, do they not know what

happens when you call crowds onto the streets in a society and there

is a real fundamental question that has to be answered by those who

engineered what is now it resulted. Can I say to those who are on the

other side of the House have condemned what has happened over

the last weekend, and we have condemned it quite clearly, but

perhaps when they were engaging in activities such as voting for the

release of the killers for the attempted killers of a DUP

councillor in Dungannon, while they were aiming play parks after

killer's, while they were stoking the fires by removing the Union

flag from the City Hall, maybe what they should ask themselves - did

they not know what the reaction was likely to be across the Community?

I think there has been a grave responsibility on those who

provoked this situation, that is not to say that what has happened

is correct. It is wrong and it is wrong for a whole lot of reasons. I

am proud of the Union flag of this country. Not as a piece of cloth,

not because of the colours that are in it, but because of what it

stands for. Sammy East stood up and give a great speech about the Union

Jack flag. I am Irish and Belfast is now shared city. That means

Irish nurse is important as well so the other side of the house needs

to realise that all the protests were over was the compromise and

what they are ignoring is the fact that there is discrimination

against Irish us. Stephen Walker is here. A familiar to be it? Yes,

when you think we ended 2012 at the Assembly talking about the Union

flag and here we are the first day back, talking about it again. There

were some heated exchanges at times followed by and large, it was a

fairly well measured debate. People made their point eloquently and be

heard a lovely -- a lot of arguments that we're used to. It

got people - like he did when Sammy Wilson got up and then Gerry Kelly

but the arguments were familiar but I think politicians, once they will

dispute who started the whole protest and hide it can be sorted

out, there is general agreement among politicians that it has to be

a political solution to the issue. The DUP got a new member today?

Some news today with Fred Korean he was the UUP MLA at the last

Assembly for north Belfast, a familiar figure, he was a Belfast

city councillor for many years, and known to the electorate and

journalists. He said he has been disillusioned for some time it with

the Ulster Unionist Party and today he was unveiled by the DUP, by

Nigel Dodds and Peter Robinson and he gave some of his reasons as to

why he is leaving the UUP and joining the DUP. I am disillusioned

with the party for a number of months. I think that will only get

worse in the future. The Ulster Unionist party is best described as

politically exhausted, I don't think they have any new or big

ideas. What did the UUP say? They say they are not surprised.

Obviously they're disappointed. When you have spent 30 years with a

party, Fred is leaving behind many good friends and people say they

are very disappointed that he is going. It is well understood that

he has been talking to the DUP for some time. For the leader, it is a

difficult day because it means his departure is the latest in a long

line of people who have left. There was the rout with Lord McGuinness a

drum glass, a row about David McNarry so this is the third high-

profile member of the Ulster Unionist Party to depart so it is

bad news for them. The First Minister was back at the

dispatch box later in the afternoon, this time question-time. Peter

Robinson was asked how the Social Investment Fund could be used to

target our educational under- achievement among Protestant

working-class boys. He said no single department should take

ownership of the issue. There is a specific issue of under achievement

in a Protestant working-class boys and we want action to improve

outcomes. We expect steering groups to target interventions were

evidence shows there is a need to address this issue. Groups are

working on the plans and they are due to be with the Department by

the end of the month. In addition, we have identified educational

under-achievement as a priority issue to be addressed by our new

cross-departmental delivering social change agenda. It negatively

impact across a wide range of social policies. We are determined

to make improvements and the signature programme for numeracy

and literacy, the recently announced a framework and it

signals hour commitment to this issue. Plans are at an advanced

stage and the Department of Education will meet shortly to

begin the recruitment of teachers for the scheme. I think the First

Minister for his answer, he will be aware that at the first public

meeting of the Unionist forum on Friday, this issue of education

under-achievement by Protestant working-class boys was one of the

key issues. I wonder if he would agree with that committee that this

is one of the definitions of a failure of Sinn Fein's Kenya as

minister for education over the last 10 years? I think the issue of

educational under attainment in working-class Protestant

communities has probably got a lead in a period much beyond the life of

the Assembly itself. It does need to be tackled, should be tackled

and the first point of tackling it is that part of education and I am

sure the Education Minister will want to tell the Assembly of the

various steps taken within his department to tackle that issue.

The Deputy First Minister and either of the view when we were

looking at our agenda of delivering social change that we should never

contribution because I don't think any one department needs to take on

a ship on its own on this issue. We made a contribution by bringing

forward proposals which looked at employing another 230 teachers for

one-to-one tutoring of children who are falling behind. We also put

funding in because if there is at joined-up approach required, we

also put funding in to improving parenting which is an important

aspect and I do know from my own contacts within the Social

Investment Fund steering group for East Belfast that it is one of the

issues that the steering group is taking seriously. You will see some

Will the Minister also acknowledge that educational under-achievement

is not located in only one section of the community? Does he recognise

the best way of the dressing under- achievement is true mixed-ability

learning and will he signed up to a posing segregating children at 11

years old? I am keen to end segregation of education. I wonder

if the member joining us... Not just from 11 but at every level! I

acknowledge that statistically it is clear that there is a greater

prevalence of education under- achievement in Protestant, working-

class boys. It is not exclusively an issue for Protestant working-

class people. The Social Investment Fund steering groups are able to

target it wherever it exists. So, yes. It must be a cause for concern

for any of us in the House that there are significant numbers of

people, after many years of education, who come through the

education system and at the end of it still do not have the numeracy

and literacy skills necessary to get decent jobs in Northern Ireland.

That is a concern across the Community. Possible executive

intervention to help businesses affected by the recent flag

protests was the focus of questions to the finance minister. Sammy

Wilson said he and the enterprise minister Arlene Foster would meet

with representatives of the hospitality industry to discuss

possible options. We have got to look at what is

possible off. It is a matter for the executive to consider what help,

if any, can be given to those who have been impacted by some of the

protests. They is go within the 2009 Financial Assistance Act to

develop a scheme that that would assist businesses dependent on a

night-time economy and the hospitality trade, who have perhaps

been most badly affected in some areas, although it has to be

thought through. The Assembly cannot simply afford to use public

expenditure to provide blanket financial support to the business

sector, nor would it be appropriate to do so. The hardship rate release

scheme is in existence but everything requires firm evidence

of consequential trading loss over a sustained period before we can

lend help to those in financial distress and in the past it has

been used for example in foot-and- mouth disease and volcanic ash and

other periods of a long term, sporadic civil unrest. Again, this

requires an appeal and it will not bring immediate respite to the

business is. Can I ask him, will he do this with a real sense of

urgency and tried to lift the burden of some of these hard-

pressed retailers, restaurateurs, and bar owners? If this thing goes

on any longer, a lot of them will go out of business. Of course we

will look with all of the constraints I have given him the

answer to date, we will look, and I intend to meet some people from the

hospitality industry, along with Arlene Foster, and I will be

spelling out what options might be available but also the difficulties

with all of those options. They definitely was an impact on the

traders but it might be possible to identify how we can practically

help if we also a factor in the pressure that was coming from the

general economic downturn and the increase in online trading.

member made an important point. This is the problem with any relief

scheme. We have got to distinguish, what other factors which are a side

from the public disorder, might have created the problem? The

effect has been patchy of course and even Belfast city centre, I

notice from some of their reports, some traders actually said it was a

better Christmas than they had before but the one thing we can't

do is throw blanket loans of public money at a problem which, for some

traders might not have existed at all, and secondly, give an unfair

advantage for some who may fall within the scope of the scheme

while others who were equally badly hit, but because of a badly

designed scheme, don't fall within the scheme.

Last week's announcement of the abolition of the Housing Executive

was criticised by unions who fear that it will mean job losses. Today,

the minister responsible, Nelson McCausland, faced scrutiny over the

proposal and questions over why such an important decision was not

announced in the Assembly chamber. It has always been my intention to

come to the chamber to give statements once the process as

advanced and there is something more substantial steps to discuss.

Because of the nature of the initial statement, I dreamed that

the written statement was the most appropriate. We in the SDP are not

the only party to have expressed concern of the manner in which the

original statement was made. A matter of such public importance as

the Housing Executive, for this and all statement may have been more

appropriate. I welcome the motion to present to the SDP committee but

an absence of the minister having taken questions to date, and

speculation has been rife among tenants and tax payers and not

least among staff about what these proposals will mean for them. What

assurances and comfort can the Minister give to Housing

Executive's staff that are concerned about their future?

is not about cutting jobs. This is not about saving money. It is about

getting the right structure for social housing in Northern Ireland

as we move forward. The functions that are currently carried out by

the Housing Executive of functions that will still have to be carried

out. Grants will still have to be ordered. Properties will still have

to be managed. All of those different functions will still take

place and it will require staff to do so. I would ask the Minister to

accept it would have been better to come here firstly to make such an

important announcement to the House as opposed to leaving it to

speculation. I will simply say that I found even asked Det issuing the

writ and statement that when I was interviewed about it, time and

again, all I could sit back to the questions were, those are things

that are still to be discussed. There has to be a lot of

consideration, appraisals, Business cases, all sorts of things. Two

years of work ahead of us. However I do welcome the fact that the

member acknowledges that this is a good opportunity for us to improve

the quality of much of our social housing and also to increase the

quantity. How do you feel about paying 5

pence for a plastic bag? Well the new levy was approved by the

Assembly today and will come into effect in April. The Environment

Minister, Alex Attwood, joins me. Is there an inconsistency around

this policy that some will be included and some won't? No. The

vast majority of bags will be captured on to this levied because

we want to do what has happened in the Republic of Ireland. What has

happened in Wales. Reduce the use of plastic bags and other low-cost

bags by 80% in order to improve the environment and as a consequence,

direct some further money into environmental schemes. That is a

good policy. Jim Allister raised concerns today. He said the Revenue

would be �2.5 million raised but he wants to know how much it would

cost to set up a unit in Londonderry to administer it?

pleased there will be 10 new jobs in Derry as a consequence of this

scheme. It will cost �650,000 a year. When it is fully operational,

an income of over 4 million. That means extra money to environmental

schemes. But the primary purpose of the policy is to reduce the use of

plastic bags especially, that as we know are not biodegradable and end

up in a hedgerow. That sends out a negative message about Northern

Ireland at a time when we need to send out a positive message, that

we are green and clean, and that is a part of our lives and where

visitor has come here. We did go up to 10 pence and then include

biodegradable bags? It will be five pence in the first year, 10 pence

in the second year, and we hope the law will be amended in the second

year not just to include a single use carrier bags, that his paper

and plastic bags, but also include lower-priced reusable bags, like

bag macro for life in various shops. -- like a bag it for life. That way

we will keep reviewing whether a levy should be charged on

biodegradable bags. He would charge for paperbacks? Absolutely. There

is big environmental impact for paperbacks as well. They carry

threat and wrist to the environment, sometimes as much as a plastic bags.

Used to be social development minister. Does the Housing

Executive need to be thrown out? It needed a fundamental review in

order to protect its enormous achievements over the last 40 years

but also to deal with the self evident issues about its

performance and conduct in recent years. The current Social

Development Minister got way ahead of himself and has been

backtracking ever since. We are looking forward to having an

executive and the future that continues the great work of the

house an executive of the past and drives forward reform in order to

make housing better, standards better and have more new houses

built, given the waiting lists that we have at the moment. A Alex

Attwood, thank you. Well, Stephen, it's been a busy

first day in the Assembly and it's a busy week for the Secretary of

State as well. Yes. She met representatives from the licensed

trade today, people who run pubs and restaurants that have been

complaining that trade has been badly hit. One publican suggested

that their trade has been down �60,000. They were meeting the

Secretary of State in the hope they could be some kind of compensation.

Theresa Villiers will go to London tonight and will be in the Cabinet

tomorrow and will brief her fellow ministers. On Thursday, the focus

will be North-South, with Eamon Gilmore coming up to Belfast to

have a series of political meetings, not just with Theresa Villiers but

also with the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister. These

meetings have been in the diary for a while but the issue of the flak