14/03/2016 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today on the day that the Alliance leader,

David Ford, made his final appearance at the despatch box

And Welfare Reform - it hasn't gone away, you know.

So, tonight, the wide-ranging Justice Number 2 Bill

completes its passage through the House.

We have increased the maximum offences and ensure that Northern

Ireland actually has the toughest penalties for these reprehensible

crimes. MLAs finally pass the Welfare Reform

regulations agreed in It is appropriate that we go back to

an issue that has in some ways defined this mandate, the issue of

need. And joining me with his thought's

on today's developments When he got the job in 2010,

David Ford was Northern Ireland's first Justice Minister since 1972,

when Westminster took policing powers away from the old

Stormont government. Today was his last day

at the despatch box in the role. Not only did he have a final

question time to get through, he also brought the final stage

of the Justice Number 2 bill Mr Ford said the bill contains some

of the most significant reforms to the justice system,

not only during his time First and foremost, the bill creates

a radically reformed approach to the enforcement of financial penalties.

It increases options for offenders to pay their fines. As one as

providing better options for debtors who cannot pay their fine, the Bill

provides cover sanctions for wilful default is worried is clear they

will not pay. These include incidents Agassiz provision to

access a debtor 's bank account and seize vehicles. We have improved

animal welfare in this bill by including and ensuring that Northern

Ireland has actually the toughest penalties for these reprehensible

crimes of any region in the silence. But of course we should not just be

concerned about and welfare. A big reduction is enhanced by extreme

pornographic images, new arrangements of Lay visitors to all

police stations, the committee 's provisions and introduced by Mr Ross

on revenge pornography and Mr freeze amendments on tax and Ambler 's

workers. We have undertaken an impressive workload which might

criminal justice system in Northern Ireland, not least by the recent

report which concluded on the just and digital airy age which is a

series of recommendations regarding innovative approaches that could be

up. Did in Northern Ireland was about it we have made a constructive

role in the constructive could in Northern Ireland. We have come up

with a number of absolutely achievable recommendations that we

believe should be part of an export of them and the figures are doubly

pleasing that we have managed to get the level of consensus on those

areas as well. People outside the bubbly don't realise the

significance of the justice in the two Bill but it is significant and

the reason why it is significant is that if the new fines collection

system is properly and fully implemented it will mean thousands

of people will not go to prison. It will mean that space will be freed

up. It will mean that the pressure in the prison system which is

suffering from very considerable pressures, Mr Deputy Speaker, that

pressure will in fact the East. We have to find better ways of dealing

with the nonpayment of fines for cases such as TV licensing and other

incidences rather than the present option of sending people to jail and

the Coral records that ensue and also the considerable cost involved

but that will be clearly a matter for the new mandate and progress I

know has already been made per degree in respect of TV licensing.

Given the a good wishes that refer to make I'd be going somewhere I

should like to lick it clear that the Taoiseach has not nominated me,

the last off right to have a seat in the House of Lords came through the

then leader of the Ulster Unionist Party in 2005 and I have not had one

since and as far as I am concerned, subject to the wishes of the good

people of South Antrim, I have every intention of going nowhere at all

but coming back year after the election.

So while David Ford is determined to return to the Assembly,

he has already announced he won't be seeking the Justice job

Unsurprisingly, following the dissident republican attack

in East Belfast earlier this month, the safety and recruitment of prison

officers featured during his final question time.

What work can be done to get recruits from areas such as North

Belfast but I represent, these people these evil people must never

be allowed to win and they cannot be seen to win. All I can be done to

attract representatives from across the community must be done by the

Northern Ireland prison service to ensure that the prison service is

indeed reflective of society. Can I thank Mr Humphrey for his

condemnation of the attack on Friday week ago. I met the prison officers

family that day. I have since had the opportunity to meet him, I am

pleased to say he's making a reasonable recovery from his

injuries but that attack must be condemned and I welcome the

condemnation which I know would come from the part of this house. One

does need to be ever in terms of how we talk about recruitment to insure

that we do not get away from the basic principle of recruitment on

merit. The key issue is to ensure that people are encouraged to apply

from every part of the community and that is what I believe has been

carried out. I shall the Minister will agree it is important that the

prison service reflects the entire community in its workforce. Can I

ask the Mr Watt percentage of Catholic and female recruits, what

the percentage is? The last figures I saw at the point in June of 2012,

80% of staff were seen as Protestant and 79% were male. There has been a

significant turnaround but I cannot give the most recent recruitments

but by March of 2016, the overall numbers who were Protestant was

simply at 78%, so still a very high proportion of all been as of

recruits has changed slightly and at that stage the numbers of males was

down to 72% from 79%, so modest progress certainly. The intakes have

been more representative but overall, given the limited and this

will have been recruited, it is not made a huge difference. The threat

to prison officers stand at severe, as it has since the point of

devolution but in my time as Minister I have attended the funeral

of David Black, a murdered prison officer, I have attended the funeral

of Roland Kirk, a murdered prison officer, as well as others who have

died in the course of duty. And to members of God as were murdered by

terrorist operating on across border bases. We should acknowledge that

there is a cigarette can problem with those of not accept this

society ruled on that we should ensure we provide support for those

who are leading the fight to ensure that we become a normal society most

bitterly those who wear prison and police uniforms.

David Ford, and Chris Donnelly is with me now.

Members are dealing with important legislation right up to the wire

Yes, and we saw today. David Ford getting the second Justice Bill

through. It is a wide-ranging bill. Increasing sanctions as well is

making a specific offence attacking Ambler 's work in the line of duty.

I think there is another area in terms of trying to reduce pressures

on police and prison services in terms of nonpayment of fines and

that is now being transferred to civilian agency and there is an egg

and of reading flexible at year-round arranging repayments of

the less people got on the custodial route, sentencing, so I think you

should see that they have responded to pressures that exist within the

system and we will seal that Arafat does prove to be effective. Some

people are very supportive of our progressive approach to the justice

system but there are the people who regard that frankly as going soft on

cruel justice. Yes, that certainly does exist out there but

unfortunately when the pressures do come to bear on both the police and

prison services and we know that both have been in the public eye

over issues in the last period of time and therefore I think that

there are does seem to be a consensus both within the Justice

committee and to the Department of the executive that this is a way to

go at the moment. It was David Ford 's last day as a minister in the

chamber. How do you think he has a mini job over the last five, nearly

six years? The report made reference to he's the first Justice Minister

for quite a period of time. I think history is gone to record that he

stepped up to the plate at the time. It was not the first time that David

Ford 's leadership made an intervention that kept the wheels in

motion. We know that from 2001 money executive could have collapsed, he

led the party in a number of figures to give it another year and at that

time, I do think it is more unlikely the David Ford is going to take the

role May but it will more be another alliance member. I think history

will record that he did do a confident job. It is interesting

that you think that alliance will take the role. The party has been

quite cagey about that so far. I was asking my only long bedevilled the

leader about it on Sunday politics last week. She was not prepared to

be drawn. I think the party, no one is good show their hand at this time

but I think the have benefited in the last 15 years from being seen to

play a certain role that has allowed the institutions to stay alive, I

think in our electoral sense, no more than Naomi Long, herself,

staying playing a constructive role. Alliance will more likely least

ever. If not, Naomi Long crabs Stephen Ferry, someone also has been

tried and tested as a minister in a has mended. Arguably much.

Thanks, Chris - we'll hear more from you later in the programme.

The Enterprise Minister also faced question time today and,

in what's become something of a trend of late, he was asked

for his views on June's EU referendum.

Jonathan Bell was asked if his party's position in favour

of a Brexit runs contrary to the views of many figures

Can the Minister provide an update on what discussions he has held with

local stakeholders such as the CBI, FSB and manufacturing and I saw that

as economy Minister he remains able to represent the views of local

business leaders? I have met on a number of occasions with the

Federation of small business, I have met Mr Gover than of the CBI and

most recently I was in Bushmills with the chamber of, as and Anne

McGregor and interesting about particular function, and McGregor

said in her conversations with members most members, the majority

of members, were full vote leave. How many potential investors have

actually said to you Minister that they would like to see Northern

Ireland outside of the European Union? This question was asked

actually of our law just single investor in Northern Ireland and the

United States consulate in Belfast and they asked Andrew O'Brien the

question and he answered it very clearly that he had nobody saying,

no knowledge that people from the United States would stop investing

in Northern Ireland Bewley on the basis of the situation within the

European Union. I think in all of my trips that we have done, the three

things that have come across very clearly is that Northern Ireland is

one of the best talent pools in the world, that the costs of doing

business in Northern Ireland is our somewhat 84% of doing business in

the rest of the UK and the fact that from the 1st of April 2018, we will

have a corporation tax rate of 12.5%, the most competitive rate of

corporation tax in Western Europe. Those are the three factors that

seem to be taken hold of from Asia to America right throughout the

Middle East and it is on that basis that I think Northern Ireland will

continue to grow its economy. It would in fact be liberating for our

trade and for enterprise to be free of the shackles of the European

Union. Instantly we would be liberated from EU regulation which

even the commission has admonished cost 4% of GDP and of course we

would be freed to form our own trade deals with the growth parts of the

world rather than tied to the declining EU. With the Minister

agree go to mark people know my own parties could position but I think

that mole and put more into is not standard to scrutiny. If Wittig

regional funds, out of which we get dedicated peace money at known as

cat, we are still operating at a loss. Open Europe is estimating that

for this pot that we get ?1 back for every pounds 58 we put in. And for

2016, the Office for Budget Responsibility estimates a net UK

contribution of nine and a half billion pounds overall it's

forecasting an increase of 3.1% billion pounds in total

contributions in the next five years. I imagine hard-working

families will not be any better off financially than they were before

the reform process started. Jonathan Bell making the case

for the UK leaving the EU. David Ford may have been dealing

with business in the House for the final time today,

but he certainly wasn't slacking as he presented a report on children

in the justice system The outgoing Justice Minister wants

the treatment of children to be less Lee Probert a proposal put forward

under this echoes the calls for the committee on the rates of the child

and the youth Justice review. It is to raise the minimum age of criminal

responsibility. I am fully aware not all parties yet agree with the need

to do this but we should not ignore the fact that this change is

strongly advocated unsupported by experts in the youth justice across

Northern Ireland, these islands and internationally. It would take

vulnerable young children entirely out of the game out of criminal

Justice and offending behaviour would be addressed in a different

way, as in most countries in Europe. I am very proud of the strides

forward made in youth justice primarily as part of the youth

Justice reviewed. However, it is clear there is more to do and

fundamental questions remain about how we react to the worst behaved

and most troubled children that caused the greatest harm within

communities and whether the punitive approach we have traditionally taken

as the best way to encourage them to change their behaviour. While

supporting the general thrust of what the Minister has said

particularly the problems, can I seek an assurance that we are

principally talking about young people accused of non-violent,

low-level offending, and if that young person poses a threat to the

community they will be detained in the traditional way. The intention

of having two separate custodial orders as to ensure we can deal with

more difficult and even violent offences and a different way, and

that clearly will have an effect on the issue of Beale, but the no

reasonable prospect test is a key issue as to how we address this, and

if there are concerns about violence, that will not be the same

case as many of the issues which currently result in young people

going into custody. The Minister will be well aware of the Green

party support for an increase in the minimum age of criminal

responsibility. Can he outlined far as the harm that is being done to

both the children themselves and the wider society by those who resist a

change in what is one of the lower stages of criminal responsibility in

Europe? There a danger that the small numbers of young people,

particularly with the couple of years above the minimum age, who

come into contact with the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland,

and we're talking about something like 20-30 young people in any year,

who are in real danger because of the way we currently operate, of

getting swept into a circumstance that leads them to further difficult

offending behaviour, and by raising the minimum age and ensuring we

moved to an appropriate care method which deals with what is almost

certainly in the case of ten and 11-year-olds, an underlying family

problem, we are much more likely to address it than by treating children

who have been left in some sort of state of dysfunctional family or

difficult relationships, or mental health problems. They are much more

danger than if we treat them with purely criminal sanctions.

David Ford, making his final Ministerial appearance in the House.

It's very possibly been the issue that's defined this mandate -

the reform of the welfare system in Northern Ireland.

Today, the Social Development Minister brought the draft welfare

regulations to the floor of the Assembly.

Lord Morrow explained how the changes to the system agreed

in the Fresh Start Agreement will be implemented.

These regulations will enable the Department to instigate payments are

affected by the benefit gap and employment and support allowance,

the benefit cap will restrict the total amount of benefits paid to a

household to 26,000, and the cap will be applied through a claimant's

housing benefit. Out of work and child related benefits will be

included when calculating. Except we have the support component has been

awarded. A household is exempt from the benefit cap if they are entitled

to working tax credits or a range of disability benefits. The people

involved in the fresh start agreement have deliver the package

which I believe is quite clearly second to none. I think that is

important to state. We would have loved to have been able to do more

but I have heard a lot of other commentary and empty rhetoric makes

for a empty purses and this puts money in the peoples pockets and I

am pleased we can stand over that today. Some have been receiving very

large amounts of benefits and the information given to the committee

shows that some have been earning over ?47,000 per year to a

household, and this legislation will give that a degree of protection but

what everyone needs to recognise going forward is that there are no

certainties. In one way, Mr Speaker, it is appropriate that at the very

last hours of this mandate, that we go back to an issue that has in some

ways define this mandate. The issue of meat, of welfare of dogma. --

need. The authority of this assembly in those matters, and the outcomes

we have now reached. It is one of the most obnoxious proposals that

there should be special points Kevin to perpetrators of terrorism, to V

makers, who in order to protect the benefits, they should be gifted an

extra four points when they are transferring across to PIP, to make

sure they do not suffer. And obnoxious proposals. These measures

are unique to Northern Ireland and demonstrate our dedication to

protecting the most vulnerable in our society putting is ahead of the

rest of the UK and efforts to do so. For the measures to mitigate will

form are being prepared and will be presented to the executive following

the election because there is no time to do it before and I have

already outlined why that is the case, and I would take this

opportunity despite members for their interest in the regulations

and I hope they would support them to a low mitigation payments to be

made to those affected by the benefit cap and unemployment and

support allowance measures. I commend the motion to the house.

The Social Development Minister, Lord Morrow, who also delivered

the stark message to the House that ?6.5 billion is needed to bring

Housing Executive homes up to an acceptable standard

He told his fellow MLAs that if the Assembly fails to meet

the challenge, future Ministers could very well oversee

the deterioration of the Housing Executive's stock

and the long-term decline of the organisation itself.

Over the next 30 years the Housing executive should invest 6.7 billion

to bring all its forms up to an acceptable standard than keep them

in that condition. Because a backlog of maintenance work has been built

up, 1.5 billion should be spent in the five years from 2015-16. This

backlog has grown because we should be spending what is available rather

than what is needed. These are huge sums of money, only part of this can

be covered from the rental income collected by the Housing executive.

It will also need a massive injection of extra capital,

somewhere between 470 and ?700 million, to address the backlog. The

Housing challenge in the next mandate will be finding and agreeing

a way of giving the Housing executive the ability to borrow for

the future of the Housing executive as a major social landlord for the

sustainable long-term future of the 88,000 homes that it provides. This

is the Minister will be away and all, we're in the next week or so

that there has been a clear focus on the need for the provision of social

housing throughout the course of this entire mandate just passed. It

has also included in our legacy report a call to the incoming

Department of the communities to address this matter as a matter of

urgency and speaking on behalf of my own party, I think it is important

to recognise that the essence of this statement is the recognition of

the need to reclaim the Housing executive as a provider for social

housing and I very much welcome that in the statement, although I do want

to see the situation moving forward from hope to intent. Borrowing has

to be paid for and the Northern Ireland executive has already

borrowed considerably more per head of population than other regions and

my question to the Minister is, how is the borrowing to be paid for?

There has to be what I would call some blue sky thinking in relation

to how housing is done in future and how it is financed. I am sure the

member is well aware that in fact what has gone before, while it did

do its job up to a point, it will not do it in the future. The depth

of the problem is quite staggering and that we are told that the Next

Generation, ?6.7 billion requires to be spent on housing executive

properties. It prompts the question, who has been in charge for the last

five years that we have got to this point? I don't think it has been

neglect on the part of the ministers of the past but rather it has maybe

been something to do with the lack of funding which is not going to get

any better than the days ahead. Lord Morrow on the harsh realities

of his departmental budget, and Chris Donnelly joins

me for a final word. I know you're watching proceedings

with interest. How do you think you dead in his capacity as leader for

the first time? It was a good decision to have the confidence. I

could see him trying to define the party around himself at the moment

with a couple of key phrases he is building the party around and we

have had the progressive nationalism which fell a little better than the

positioning of fatal abnormality and he seems to be outmanoeuvred by some

of the more traditional elements, but he is making Northern Ireland

work and I think he has found that, trying to suggest that Sinn Fein and

a bit light on policy and the SDLP might want to come in with the

number of strategic positions and they might seek to expose Sinn Fein

on them. As we seek to move towards the election the intriguing thing to

look out for is the battle with them nationalism for seats. Can you

really put a blade of grass between Sinn Fein and the SDLP only a lot of

key policy areas? The two parties, since Sinn Fein move towards a more

constitutional position, they are close together, and Sinn Fein will

play they are an all Ireland party, and the problem here is finding as

he needs to find a space to define the SDLP. One of the interesting

things he said was that if he didn't get what he wanted out of the

programme for government he might lead the party in opposition. That

would then start to define where they stood. And it is going to be

intriguing and a number of key constituencies that battle, not

least, in his home city of Derry, because Martin McGuinness is trying

to move back the from mid-Ulster. The main thing he needs is some kind

of victory, and trying to make the next battle ground for this

election, they have offered an opportunity to get a win, and that

is why I thought it was quite strange when Sinn Fein decided to

move Martin McGuinness. It is a win- lose if Martin McGuinness doesn't

secure the site feet, seat, and that would be a tremendous statement to

launch on, the counter narrative. The point is somebody else could

lose the seat? Martin McGuinness is winning, it is whether Sinn Fein

return three. If they went three, that would condemn eastward to the

fate of former SDLP leaders. That is it for tonight but join me tomorrow

for the final show of this run, goodbye.