14/06/2011 Stormont Today


14/06/2011

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Hello and welcome to Stormont Today, where we will look at the impact of

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cuts, and whether a back lash from public sector workers is on the way.

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Stay with us if you have a story to tell on your efforts to build peace

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here. And, fedup with delay at Stormont, here's a promise from a

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politician. When you go into power, you do not lie you become captive

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of delay. I can assure the member that if there is any reason to be

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concerned about delay, that should be brought to my attention. It will

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not be the measure against which I will proceed. And, a shark arrived

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at Stormont today, well, what's one more in a sea of politicians, the

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critics might say. Protesters came to Stormont to demand new laws to

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protect our marine life. The bask shark needs protection. Along with

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the sponges, fish, seals, seabirds, all the Flora and florn ya needs

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protected. Story waters in the chamber ber as members clash over

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the new deputy principal speaker. When the budget shrinks, it's not

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long before the workers feel the pinch. �4 billion is being cut from

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the Stormont finances this term. The Prime Minister himself told us

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last week that we need to start growing the private sector, and

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there is increasing pressure to cut back on jobs, services an pensions.

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The trade union NIPSA, is fighting back. To discuss these issues I'm

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joined by NIPSA general secretary, Brian Campfield. You are welcome to

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the programme. You are about to ballot your members for strike

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action, is it going to be a Winter of Discontent? Well, we're, the

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trade union members and the public service workers generally are in

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the same position as the community at large facing the onslaught of

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these austerity measures forced upon Northern Ireland by the Lib

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Dem,/Conservative coalition. We are witnessing an attack on pension, on

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pay and on jobs, jobs thousands of jobs, in fact, have been lost

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across the health services and civil service. We - what we want to

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do is stand up and make it clear, not only to our Assembly, to the

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Northern Ireland Executive and the Westminster government we are not

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prepared to accept it and will take a stand. We will ballot or our

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members in September with a view to taking industrial action in October.

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We're not doing this alone, we are working along with our sister trade

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union yos yons, not only in Northern Ireland, but across the UK

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generally. We will come back to that later, thank you. We have had

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a run of new ministers stepping up to the dispatch box for questions.

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Earlier it was the turn of Alex Attwood, who is now in charge of

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the Department of the Environment. How green is he? Where does he

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stand on recycling and the fiery issue of incineration. That said, I

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do want to see, over the course of my time during this office,

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opportunities for waste management and for recycling exploited more

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and more. It is a fact that Wyles Belfast, for example, has a

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recycling rate of 30% of domestic, comparable cities in Cardiff have

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recycling of 40%. If we go down the road of reorganisational government

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how we push the new councils in the run down about reorganisation about

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how they can, in terms of recycle and reuse, up their game, maximise

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the opportunities so that could mitigate against incineration.

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Incineration is not merely merely burning. You can have waste energy

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opportunities that makes the incinerator option more attractive.

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And, staying with a burning issue. The TUV leader wants to know about

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the proposal to build a chicken waste incinerator. Would ideology

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play a part? Could I thank the member and could I also welcome the

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member to the Assembly. Could I confirm I do have ideological

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positions, I'm not afraid of having ideological positions, maybe in the

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course of the next few months we could have conversations one way or

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the another about my ideological positions they may prevail over

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yours. My experience, as an SDLP politician has always been to

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travel more in hope than expectation, and I can assure the

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House that when it comes to talking to the minister that would be the

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basis on which I would have the conversation. I don't fall into

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traps around delay. I try to demonstrate when I was DSD Minister

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that there was a difference, which, in my view, ministers didn't fully

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appreciate between going into government and go into power. When

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you go into power you do not allow yourself to become captive of delay.

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I can assure the member, if there is any reason to be concerned about

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delay, that should be brought to my attention. It will not be the

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measure against which I will proceed. Then road safety, in

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particular drink drieg driving. Wyles we still continue to scope

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those out within the Department, some of the examples would be

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further measures to deter drink- driving. Have we come to a point in

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time where, not only should we reduce the limits of alcohol in a

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person's blood, leading to prosecution, but are we come to the

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point in time where, for certain designated drivers, let's say our

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drivers, that there would be a requirement for effectively a nil

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reading of alcohol in the blood, in terms of potential prosecution? Nil

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meaning, not necessarily being no reading, because there may be

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reasons, such as taking of medicine that is could give rise to partial

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traces of alcohol in a person's blood. It does seem to me that

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reducing the alcohol level in someone's blood, leading to

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prosecution, is one example of an area we should explore. Finance

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questions. The economy minister standing in for her colleague Sammy

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Wilson attending the funeral of Mr Lenihan in Dublin. She had this

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update on a scheme to help small businesses. Large retailers are

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generally better placed to cope with the economic downturn than

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small businesses. These measures need to be introduced as soon as

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possible and with Executive support the Finance Minister will seek

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assembly approval to have them in place by next April. They would

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apply for three years through to the end of the budget period.

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Consultation will begin on the way forward, and the Finance Minister

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hopes final decisions can be reached in the autumn. She got a

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chance to remind members while she believed a reduction in corporation

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corporation tax would be a good thing nor Northern Ireland and news

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of an extension to the consultation period? I believe the lowering of

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co-operation tax would be of huge benefit to us in Northern Ireland

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in a number of ways. It would bring in more foreign direct investment.

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It would bring many more jobs into the economy and my economic

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advisory group have indicated up to as many 4dm 500 new jobs every year.

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It would increase our productivity levels so that the productivity gap

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would close between yourselves and the rest of the United Kingdom,

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something which we have set as a target as far back as 2007, at the

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start of devolution. I think that convergance between living

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standards for people here in flirl, regardless of where they live,

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regardless of what they do for a living, would be something that

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everybody would feel right across Northern Ireland. So, that

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convergance of living standards, I think, for me, is the key part of

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gaining Corporation tax and the lowering of corporation tax in

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Northern Ireland the consultation still continues, as I understand it,

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from my own Department, that consultation date may have been

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extended to July 1st. It will give businesses and everybody else the

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opportunity to engage in that consultation with treasury. After

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that consultation is closed there is much work to do in relation to

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the detail of how that, hopefully, will happen here in Northern

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Ireland. She may have been standing in for him, was she singing from

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the same hymn sheet as the Finance Minister. I think I detect a slight

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difference in emphasis regarding the enthusiasm for corporation tax

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between the deputy minister and the Finance k minister. Be that as it

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THE SPEAKER: Could I have a question, please. In her view, what

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measures can be introduced to ensure that Northern Ireland is not

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subject to a rash of practice known as, "brass plating" where by

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companies seek to gain advantage from the lower corporation tax

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without the accompanying economic activity? I did lava little, I have

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to say, Mr Deputy Speaker, when I read the Belfast Telegraph today

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saying that the Firs Minister was a nice cop, the Finance Minister was

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an assy cop Iowa nicer cop. The Finance Minister is charged with

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the public finances of Northern Ireland. Therefore, he will, of

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course, be concerned about the cost of corporation tax. As Economy

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Minister my job is to build the economy for Northern Ireland and to

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try and close the productivity gap between yourselves and the United

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Kingdom. That is my primary aim. Having looked at the independent

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evidence that corporation tax would bring about benefits fofr -- for us

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here in Northern Ireland that we would not otherwise achieve.

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everyone is convinced. Some critics say it's too big a risk because we

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will lose �300 million a year in treasury funding with no guarantee

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of job creation and investment. NIPSA general secretary is one of

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those critics. Aren't you swimming against the tide. Experts say it

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will great 4,000 to 5,000 jobs for years to come? A lot of these

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experts are economist who work for the banking system. They are

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articulating the pro-business position on this, which is there

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should be a reduction in corporation tax. More recently the

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debate has become a bit more balanced because, up until now, it

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has been one sided. It has been more propaganda than debate. More

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recently, as you know, Lady Sylvia Herman came out against the

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reduction in corporation tax. It is a strange situation where you have

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a Lord And Lady of the realm taking a progressive position than those

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of the SDLP or any other political parties. Stormont received an SOS

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message today, save our seas. Around 100 school children brought

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a giant wicker shark to the steps along with a 4,000 strong petition.

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The protest was organised by the Northern Ireland Marine Task Force.

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It wants new laws to protect marine life, arguing Northern Ireland is

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lagging behind other UK regions. So is the Minister responsible, Alex

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Attwood, will to legislate. I caught up with him and the shark

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earlier. The boys and girls are right, we need a Marine Bill and we

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need it now. Even yesterday afternoon I sat down with all the

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progressive organisations in the North to scope out what a Marine

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Bill should look out in order to ensure when I table legislation, as

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I plan to in the near future, it covers all that we need to do in

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order to ensure that what the boys and girls want, that our seas and

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shores and marine and coastal land is all protected and developed

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And many reen and coastal land, is developed and protected. This idea

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has been floated about your department for some time and

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nothing's been done. It may have been floating about for a while but

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I'm going to launch it soon. Will it be as big and bold a marine bill

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as I can make it. While I have a draft version of the Bill already,

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yesterday I sat down with a lot of the progressive environmentalists

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in the North to see how we can build upon the draft to make it

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what the boys and girls want - a bill to serve their needs and

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future generations going forward. That's measure of this Bill. If I

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fail that measure I think people will say so. How big and bold is

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it? What does it mean? Well, what it means will we have marine

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conservation zones so that when we develop our shoreline and our

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marine and seabed we are doing it in a way that is responsible, so

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that in future generations we have and retain the asset of the

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beautiful seas around the coastline in the north of Ireland. Are we

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going to have mechanisms to make sure that there is all the power of

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government to stop those abusing the power of our seas? Do we

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develop in a way that's environmentally friendly but at the

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same time uses our marine for all the good environmental purposes

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going forward? Those are the standards I shall be judged by.

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That's what the generation behind me want. They want the biggest and

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boldest bill possibly to ensure the beautiful asset of the marine is

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protected but utilised going forward. Does it mean cleaner

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beachs? Cleaner beachs a strategy already in place. That's why only a

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couple of weeks ago I was awarding a blue flag and other standards for

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the cleanliness and fitness of our beaches around Northern Ireland.

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That's part of the coastal strategy. The marine bill will go further

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than that again. While they may be conduct jobs in the Civil Service,

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there is still room for a new, upgraded post in Stormont. The DUP

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and Sinn Fein has agreed that one of the speakers will be elevated to

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a new Principal Speaker's job. But other parties are crying foul here

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is a taste of rather hot and heavy debate on the issue. We are all

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aware of the background though these motions. That an 16th May

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2011 this Assembly passed a motion for the creation of the roll of

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Principal Deputy Speaker and conducted the committee to start

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the necessary order. This may sound a simple instruction, but the

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committee felt that in order to arrive at a product that could

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stand over consideration needed to be given to a broad series of

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related issues. Things like what the title of Principal Deputy

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Speaker might mean in practice and how practical issues needed to be

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achieved. The outworkings of these considerations are the three

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motions you see on the paper. not believe that a proposed case

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has been made for this appointment on the grounds of need. I believe

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we need to have it spelt out, where exactly we are falling short in the

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last mandate, which may disappointment necessary. How did

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this supposed shortfall show up? What was the shortcomings which

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drove and led to this proposal? Thank you Mr Speaker and for the

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opportunity to speak Toon issue today, although I imagine members

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of the public following this debate may wonder why the Assembly is not

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discussing more important matters. On reflection of the proposals

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today, I see no compelling identification of the problem, or

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indeed a solution to the problem. That we were seeking to re divine

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equality in this amendment. It has gone from being that we all come

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here and we share the burden of port in an equal way. It's gone

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from that to being that Sinn Fein and the DUP are more equal than

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others. And so we have a hierarchy of equality. Therefore, a new

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inequality in this House. I don't see how notice the interests of

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this House or any party, particularly a party which

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campaigned so vehemently on the basic principle of equality, to

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introduce such a code to this House. That's the impact of these changes,

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Mr Speaker. They were a serious impacts. They send a negative

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signal to the outside world. There really is very little to discuss.

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The Assembly has already decided to create the position of the

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Principal Deputy Speaker. What we are talking about today is the

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process and how that appointment will operate. But the role has been

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created. That decision has been taken. I realisation that some

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members don't like that decision, but however the democratic

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institution that decided to take that decision. Those who respect

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democracy will respect the will of this House. I thank the member for

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giving way and I appreciate we've already debated this motion. But as

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I said during the first - we've yet to be told why this change is

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necessary. Out of respect for democracy, out of respect for this

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House, and out of respect to this voting public, could the member

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please take the opportunity to explain why this is necessary?

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We've yet to hear this argument.. The will of this House has deemed

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that it is necessary. A minority in this House don't want the position,

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but a majority of this House do. have no need established. We have

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no function for the post we are going to establish. We've no

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argument made, little wonder there is such embarrassment in this House

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today during this debate on these main benches and on these main

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benches... THE SPEAKER: Order! the two main benches. No-one

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occupying any of those bench has the capacity, there is nothing

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there to give, the capacity to tell us why we need a Principal Deputy

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Speaker. Your party, the TUV and the Ulster Unionists, joined forces

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to oppose though motion but you are not opposed to the principle of a

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Principal Deputy Speaker, because you wanted the parties to rotate

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this position? No, we made it plain we were opposed to the idea of

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having a Principal Deputy Speaker, but when you are in a situation

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where you are trying to fight your corner, you have to produce

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amendments. We produced a very reasoned and reasonable amendment,

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which was let's rotate this position around the three Deputy

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Speakers that presently exist. Yand did we do that? Because it is

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consistent with the Good Friday Agreement, consistent with an

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Assembly that's committed to partnership and to power sharing.

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This was of course the creation of a hierarchy within the team of

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Deputy Speakers. There's a hierarchy within the executive.

:20:52.:20:57.

There's a first and Deputy First Minister. Why not have a speaker

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with a Principal Deputy Speaker? There are two dominant parties here

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and why shouldn't they share the post? You were right it was a

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pretty shabby deal between the two parties, the DUP... I didn't say

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that, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm sure any reasonable

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person out there would agree it's a shabby deal. If you take the First

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and Deputy First Minister, that's co-equal position, and Sinn Fein

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keep arguing that it is a co-equal position. So why do they insist on

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creating a hierarchy within the team of Deputy Speakers? It is a

:21:35.:21:39.

title, so what's the big deal? Aren't you just jealous that Sinn

:21:39.:21:43.

Fein are going to get it? there's a more serious point to

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this - the side deals which the DUP and Sinn Fein are entering into Tam

:21:48.:21:53.

person with the integrity of the Assembly, the integrity of the Good

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Friday Agreement. What they are trying to do is create an exclusive

:21:58.:22:05.

club within the Assembly, where the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists and

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everybody else is excluded. So if your party was offered the post you

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would turn it down? What we are saying is let's have a civilised

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way of sharing power and positions within this Assembly. And by and

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large they are shared out in a proper and equitable manner. But on

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this occasion the DUP and Sinn Fein have decided to create a hierarchy,

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and that's what we are against. you see this post becoming more

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powerful in the months ahead? course, and not just the months

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ahead. We've got three years until the changeover between the present

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speakers, Willie Hay, and the Sinn Fein Principal Deputy Speaker.

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During that time they'll retro fit new functions and powers on to this

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position so as to create an even more powerful position than already

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is envisaged. And they will do that by way of amendment of the law at

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Westminster, because they can't do that now at the moment, because

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their powers are restricted. We'll have to see who is right on this,

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thank you. Martin McGuinness likes to say we

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have to most successful peace process in the world, and with

:23:16.:23:20.

Peter Robinson he Lancashired an on-line directory to allow people

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involved in peace building their tell their stories. I spoke to

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Frances Morton about the initiative. It is an exciting and ambitious

:23:31.:23:36.

project. The first strand is to collect 100 heritage interviews. We

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plan to build an archive of those, with key people involved in peace

:23:41.:23:45.

and reconciliation. We are going back as far as living memory will

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allow. That's people who experienced the peace process and

:23:49.:23:53.

contributed to it, as far back as the '60s to the present day.

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Secondly, a community aspect will involve engagement with local

:23:56.:24:01.

communities to develop their oral history skills. We are planning to

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undertake an oral history training programme. That will equip people

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in the local communities to go out and collect other people's stories

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who experienced the peace process and lived through it. Who are you

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looking for then? We are looking for people all over Northern

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Ireland, the border area, the Republic of Ireland, and Britain as

:24:20.:24:25.

well, just to come forward and tell us their storys and experiences.

:24:25.:24:29.

it their experiences of the Troubles or their experiences of

:24:29.:24:33.

trying to build peace? It's the experience of trying to build peace

:24:33.:24:37.

and how the process has filtered down at a local level to them. They

:24:38.:24:42.

might have different stories, different encounters. Really just

:24:42.:24:46.

what they feel is important. Everyone's story is important in

:24:46.:24:50.

addition to those of the politicians and those working at a

:24:50.:24:55.

higher level. So you want to go back, say, so the peace people, to

:24:55.:25:00.

the civil rights activists? Yes, we want to encourage people from a

:25:00.:25:06.

whole range of backgrounds, different sectors, community and

:25:06.:25:09.

voluntary groups, education - anyone who really feels they have a

:25:09.:25:13.

story to tell and share with us. We want to do that initially through

:25:13.:25:17.

the website that we'll be launching today. We will have information on

:25:17.:25:22.

their and addresses for people to get in touch with us. It might be

:25:22.:25:26.

people from the further education sector or higher education. What

:25:26.:25:31.

will happen top this archive? Is it going to go global or is it for

:25:31.:25:35.

local academics? The archive of the heritage interviews will be

:25:35.:25:39.

accessible of a period of time for the public to use generally. We

:25:39.:25:43.

envisage that it will be a valuable resource for future citizens to

:25:43.:25:48.

look back and remember, especially people who perhaps didn't live

:25:48.:25:52.

through the conflict, who've never, who've only experienced peace now.

:25:52.:25:57.

They can learn what it was like before. We have an on-line

:25:57.:26:03.

directory of interviews. It is an extensive repository of social

:26:03.:26:11.

worker views that have taken place -- reproz triof interviews that

:26:11.:26:16.

have taken place. They will be available for people to access on-

:26:17.:26:20.

line. How should people get in touch with you? They can log on to

:26:20.:26:30.
:26:30.:26:38.

our website: We want to hear from anyone who has

:26:38.:26:44.

information they think is suitable for us to look at.

:26:44.:26:50.

It wasn't a day for the indoors, so instead of a chat this cafe recess

:26:50.:26:55.

Mark Devenport and I headed for the tr as. Our political editor has

:26:55.:27:02.

been meeting the Col om ban ambassador. I didn't get Ferrero

:27:02.:27:09.

Rocher but I did meet the ambassador. Colombia has had major

:27:09.:27:13.

problems with guerrilla groups. A while ago they had a peace process

:27:13.:27:19.

with the FARC group, but that fell apart. They are working possibly to

:27:19.:27:22.

reinvigorate that. That's one of the things the Colombian ambassador

:27:23.:27:27.

told me he was here to find out about. It is true that the

:27:27.:27:29.

Colombian case is quite different from the situation that you have

:27:29.:27:34.

livered in this country, but there are some very good lessons and some

:27:34.:27:38.

experiences that can be applied to my country, hopefully in the future

:27:38.:27:44.

we'll be as successful as you have been in dealing with a peace

:27:44.:27:48.

process. At Stormont you met all the parties, including Irish

:27:48.:27:52.

republicans. On the news here most people when you say Colombia they

:27:52.:27:56.

might think of the three Irish republicans accused of trying to

:27:56.:28:01.

help FARC guerrillas. It's a turn around if you are now looking for

:28:01.:28:05.

lessons on peace from those politicians here? That's right. The

:28:05.:28:09.

idea to export from Northern Ireland to Colombia good ideas

:28:09.:28:15.

on,000 build and keep a peace process going on, and not to have

:28:15.:28:20.

the sad and negative stories of the past. It seems you are going to be

:28:20.:28:24.

very gck the Colombian embassy in London from now on. What about Jim

:28:24.:28:29.

Allister. He's having trouble getting answers to his questions.

:28:29.:28:35.

He was complaining earlier about the delay as he saw it in getting

:28:35.:28:42.

written answers. He got one today which he didn't like. He was asking

:28:42.:28:46.

about the legal advice sought by First Minister Peter Robinson in

:28:46.:28:55.

connection with the Spotlight programme, and the affair of his

:28:55.:29:00.

wife Iris and the businessman. The explanation as I understand it is

:29:00.:29:04.

that advice which was given by a barrister was commissioned by the

:29:04.:29:07.

Finance Minister, so he will probably have to rephrase his

:29:07.:29:11.

question, which was about how much the advice cost and whether it will

:29:11.:29:15.

ever be published. That's all from Stormont for now. Thanks to Brian

:29:15.:29:20.

camp field for joining us. We're back on Monday here on BBC Two at

:29:20.:29:26.

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