17/06/2014 Stormont Today

The chamber gets to vote on whether Sinn Fein MLA Gerry Kelly

The question is the motion standing being agreed. As many as are of the

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".

Temperatures rise in the chamber as the Culture Minister takes

We're condemning young people for a life going through the criminal

justice system because you are belligerent, you aren't for budging

and you won't acknowledge the situation.

And I'm joined by our political reporter

Stephen Walker to cast his expert eye over the day's proceedings.

The first item of business today - should Gerry Kelly get a five-day

suspension after he broke the law by jumping on a Land Rover last year as

The police gave the Sinn Fein member an informed warning over

Not good enough, said unionists parties who insisted

But with Sinn Fein and the SDLP united, the move to suspend

Gerry Kelly - as recommended by the Assembly's Standards and

A petition of concern, signed by Sinn Fein and some members

of the SDLP, was lodged against the motion meaning it had to have

Order. Member's order. The first item of the day is that we vote on

the... Order, members. On the complaints against Mr Jerry Kelly.

The vote will be on a cross community basis. The question is

that the motion stand in the name of the chairperson of the committee. As

many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". Clear

the lobbies. The question will be put in three minutes. Ayes to the

right, noes to the left. 93 members voted, at of which 53 voted yes, 47

Unionists voted, of which 49 voted yes, 100%. Seven others voted, of

which seven voted yes, 100%. The motion is negative. The voters

negative. Let us move on. Order! Order!

The Speaker firmly called the House to order after the vote.

And I'm joined now in the studio by my colleague Stephen Walker who was

No surprise what happened today. No great surprise. We had the big

debate yesterday and it got quite stormy at times on a number of

occasions. The Speaker had to intervene and warned people about

their language and behaviour. Yesterday was quite stormy. Today

was the practical end of business, the vote, and it went 56 for the

motion and 37 against the motion so no great surprises and, obviously,

we had this petition of concern which meant we knew which way the

vote was going to go. That is yet another user that petition, which is

still quite a controversial device. It is. What is interesting about

this latest vote today is the fact that Sinn Fein and the SDLP have

criticised the use of the petition of concern in the past. They

criticise the DUP and Unionists of using it but here we have an example

of Sinn Fein and the SDLP using it because they felt that Gerry Kelly

have been given a proper hearing. It throws into focus the whole system

of a petition of concern, which is there to ensure there is cross

community support. I think people when they look at it and ask whether

it is being used properly, how many times it has been used, the big

question will be whether parties are abusing it. Away from the chamber,

there is the controversial issues about the parading of flags. What

are you hearing? We know very little in terms of what is happening about

the talks. All we know is that Peter Robinson said he hoped the talks

would begin before the end of the month. He said there would be at

least two batches of three days. We don't know when that is supposed to

happen. It's possible that it could happen next week. But clearly, as we

move towards the 12th, it's going to be parading. Unionists have made it

quite clear that they won't be discussing the past until Lady

Hallet's review is complete. Parading is going to be a key issue

in the coming weeks. It is because we're less than a month away from

the 12th of July, the whole issue hasn't been resolved and there is

big pressure to try and get it resolved. Thank you very much.

Back in the chamber, the Culture Minister faced question

time today and she was asked about how much funding was made available

The DUP's Trevor Clarke asked Caral Ni Chuilin to provide more

Given that there is clear evidence that there is a need and demand for

more funding to this, unlike looking at question six, what assurances can

the Minister give that more funding will go towards arts festivals given

the large amount of people who have become involved in it? Well, the

member should be corrected. The Irish language is flourishing, which

I'm sure the member and his friends are happy to know. In relation to

funding for festivals, ensuring that funding for festivals... Obviously,

the demand is there. It's up to the groups to lobby their local councils

because my contribution to local councils for festival funding has

been matched by the council. If the members aren't doing their jobs

locally, there's not much I can do. Can the Minister confirm funding for

Belfast Orangefest was ordered through the community festivals

fund? As I said, community funding is provided which district councils

match. Any community group may be eligible to apply. Orange cultural

groups can and do receive funding from local councils. Belfast city

council has advised that Belfast Orangefest has not made any

application to the fund although it is aware of the programme and is

included in the circular lists. Belfast City Councillor did make an

award to Orangefest in 2011-12 and the fund was never claimed. This

money has been well spent so far and deserving of appropriate increases

and, if she had the ability, would she make a bit fall those

appropriate increases? I agree with him in terms of festival funding.

It's very important, particularly in relation to cultural celebration. In

regard to how we feel about each cultural celebration, it is a very

important one. I agree that the fund needs to be increased so that people

celebrating festivals all over can access it and it's something I'm

happy to look at in the future. But certainly for this summer and a near

me really, I think the level of funding will remain. -- in the

immediate period. She will be aware that for almost a full year now,

certain organisations have wanted to celebrate their cuts in a peaceful

and respect for manner by returning on their parade from last year's

12th of July celebrations. -- celebrate their culture. I wonder if

she would agree with me that it is very damaging to our tourism product

to send out a message that the celebration of culture in Northern

Ireland is conditional. I'm not really sure that spending ?1 million

on a particular avenue is the best way to promote cultural stop I'm

sure you would and I think that is an indictment on people who are not

in agreement with you. What we need to do is resolve that issue. I'm

very disappointed that because we as adults can't get our act together,

we are condemning young people for a life going through the criminal

justice system because you are belligerent, you are begrudging and

you won't acknowledge and recognise equality across-the-board. I don't

think it has anything at all to do with culture and I only wish you

asked a question that would actually promote what we have here to offer

instead of using an example which sections or one side of the

community off against another. The Culture Minister calling for

better questions from her colleagues Education very much dominated

the agenda at Stormont today and the first item to be debated

was the finding of a report by the education committee into how schools

in Northern Ireland are inspected. The committee brought

before the House a series of recommendations as to how the

entire process of can be improved. Inspection is clearly a good thing.

However, it is also equally clear that simply and repeatedly

inspecting our schools will not, of itself, make them any better.

Imagine if a teacher of a child who is underachieving in their school

simply tells the child repeatedly that their attainment is inadequate

or unsatisfactory. That will not, on its own, make the child any smarter

or make their performance any better. The child needs to be

helped. The child needs to be properly supported. As it is with

children, Mr deputy speaker, so it is with schools. Who will fund any

such independent body? Who will appoint members to such bodies? Who

hold these people to account? These are questions that need to be

answered long before we can agree on the government state is going

forward of any future body. It is surely more logical to research and

evaluate the range of governance options as we move forward and defer

any consideration in respect of statutory independence until such

work is completed. For this reason I cannot support the motion here today

that calls upon the Minister to implement all the recommendations

contained in the report. I would address this debate purely from a

schools perspective. From the outside I would have to say that

Mayans periods of inspections, both as a teacher and inspector what,

were positive. -- my experience of inspections. But I have met many

where it was a different story. We need to learn lessons from this

report. Lesson one - it is not the inspectors that deliver school

improvement but the leaders and teachers in our schools and I pay

credit to them for their dedication, and hard work. As I bring my remarks

to a close, I once again praised the efforts of the staff of the

committee for their hard work. I believe they've come up with a

radical report which suggests reforms which, if implemented, will

make a real difference to our schools and our pupils. Teachers and

school principals must no longer see inspections as threats but rather

opportunities for improvement in the education of our children. This will

mean a change in mindset which I believe will, and must, come sooner

rather than later. I would urge assembly support for this report and

urge the Minister to act upon his recommendations for the sake of

every single pupil in Northern Ireland. The independence of the

Inspectorate keeps coming up. I support the recommendation that it

should be independent of the department. I wish somebody would

explain to me - and perhaps the Minister will have a go at this - as

to what is the rationale for the Inspectorate being part of the

department? It cries out to me that this should be an independent body.

As far as the renaming is concerned, at least it would put a different

emphasis on the thing and perhaps draw a line under the past. I think

there is one flaw that runs throughout the report, which is this

- the report's authors have concentrated on the adult in the

classroom, rather than the child. And throughout the report, there are

references made, understandably, to concerns raised by school

principals, by teachers and their representatives of how inspections

are carried out and what impact inspections have, particularly an

inspection that registers a school is not performing as well as it

should be. What impact that has on the morale of staff. Nowhere in the

report does it comment, or is it registered, what the impact of bad

education is upon the people. And that's what we're all here to

serve. The second big education story of the day was integrated

education. The Alliance party brought a motion to the chamber

calling on the Minister to place it at the heart of education planning.

Welcome to the programme. Why are you not satisfied that the current

level of funding? It is not so much the funding, it is the attitude of

the department. This is a long-term problem. At the moment, all we have

62 integrated schools out of a total of about 1200 schools. That is after

40 years. The Department has had an obligation to facilitate the system.

They have not much of a job. Critics say there is scope within the

existing system. Why should the integrated sector be promoted above

the others? The debate arose out of the judgement on the judicial

review. It has been reemphasised the duty to promote integrated

education. People think that shared education and shared classrooms and

so on are really the same thing, a step towards the same goal, but it

is not really. The purpose of shared education is to share classes, it is

an economic thing initially. To try and provide the full curriculum. If

it leads to greater integration, greater sharing, people getting to

know each other over a period, that is fine, but it really is not a

substitute for a proper integrated school. It is a school where the

board is committed to the ethos of integration and where Protestant and

Catholic children are educated together. The difficulty is that

this motion failed. There was not much support in the chamber for it.

Actually, there was a lot of support for integrated education. It was

said that there was support. But then the motion was opposed because

they claimed it was divisive. I could not follow that. Even the

DUP... Although we lost the vote, it was not a full turnout, but three

parties supported the motion. The minister welcomed the debate but he

said his role was to plan education for the benefit of all children.

What more should he be doing? It is his job to facilitate all sectors

and there was a certain amount of debate today about the position of

faith schools. We have no problem with faith schools. They operate

very well in this country and they produce great results. It is a

question of parental choice. If parents want an integrated system

and they do declare that in large numbers every time there is a poll,

Catholic parents the same as Protestant parents, we are not

trying to force them out of the system. If they want to exercise

their right to go to a faith school, that is fine. Or a controlled

school. Thank you very much. It has got sun, sea and sand but ministers

want to relax -- were not there to relax when they travel to Guernsey

last week. The summit focused on issues such as air travel and the

negative effects of air passenger duty. The report prompted many

questions from a semi-members. This discussion reflected the island

nature of all the administrations and recognise that interdependence

on ensuring and promoting the flow of people, goods and services among

each other and further afield. The council acknowledged that the

promotion of effective transport links between membered

administration can be beneficial and to the strengthening of positive and

practical relationships amongst the people of these islands. In this

context, we and the other devolved administrations once more drew the

attention of the United Kingdom government to the negative effects

of air passenger duty on the economic and social development of

our regions. Given the support of the other regions within the UK,

does the First Minister believe that more concessions are possible in

relation to air passenger duty? Certainly, I would not describe it

as a gang up, but the three devolved administrations all argued the same

case, in terms of air passenger duty. As members will be aware, the

Northern Ireland in this nation was successful, the only part of the

United Kingdom to be successful, in having its own level for long haul

flights. And we as an executive moved back to zero. That was in

support of the travel industry, in terms of long haul flights. However,

we are a peripheral part of the United Kingdom, people, if they want

to get to the capital of the United Kingdom, have to travel by air or

sea to get there. That means we are at a disadvantage to many other

parts of the United Kingdom, in cost terms. The same can be said of

course of Scotland. We are pressing on that issue. There were changes

announced by the Chancellor on passenger duty but they were simply

consolidating three of the types of duty relating to long haul flights

into one... They do not affect Northern Ireland. However, we

continue to press on the basis of our economic pact with the

government. It is one of the issues being considered. But I do warn the

assembly that if we were to be successful, the European Union would

require us to have a reduction to take account of that. It is easy

enough to get to Majorca from here but you cannot get to Dusseldorf,

Paris, Brussels. Is there any discussion around that? Part of the

discussion is about identifying whether maybe new routes... And

whether there is a demand. Indeed, one of the aspects of the work being

carried out by the minister leading the work stream on this area is

getting reliable data as to the movements of the people and of

goods, so those are the kind of factors and then obviously, there is

a decision to be taken as to whether there is sufficient clearance tell

to warrant an air route or a sea passage. Also to determine whether

that is the case. Most of these are commercially driven. The First

Minister on the prospects for new air routes from Northern Ireland to

the rest of Europe. The agriculture minister also took her turn at the

dispatch box for Question Time. She answered questions about the

relocation of the headquarters to Ballykelly but there was no escaping

questions on the farm payments. The Minister cannot be ignorant of the

direct consequences for the farming community if we move immediately to

a one region flat rate distribution. Her own departmental figures

demonstrate that. Apart from the platitudes about seeking an

agreement, what actual steps has she taken to seek consensus on this

matter? In relation to the decisions, we have taken in of

decisions to date, however there are still key decisions to be taken. I

do not think it is ideal that we go to the words flat rate immediately.

I have listened very carefully to the views of everyone concerned. I

am interested in a balanced approach. We are talking about

serious amounts of money, taxpayers' money. It should be

distributed fairly. The process is ongoing and IM involved in that

process. As you will be aware, I remain committed to relocating my

departmental headquarters to Ballykelly. We have kept staff fully

up-to-date with developments. My permanent secretary has recently

written to all staff in the Department to keep them informed.

Further updates will be given as required. Could we have an estimate

of the number of Steph that are unable or unprepared to move to the

north-west question mark staff. The member will be aware, I do not have

the exact figures, when we did the initial staff survey, we did them in

phases. I think it was only natural but the -- that the outcome of the

staff being based there for 50 years, the majority of the staff

live in the surrounding area and would want to stay. That is totally

acceptable. That is of course what they want. We then looked at the

wider staff. That was a bigger pool of people. And that was the case

whenever we came to the staff surveys for the wider civil service.

I am confident there will be opportunities in terms of transfer

across the civil service but also there will be enough staff to

actually staff a new headquarters in Ballykelly. The last time I was in

Ballykelly, it was for gross insubordination at a checkpoint. But

that in no way has deterred my endeavours to go back there. Can the

Minister outlined the progression which will lead to this swanky new

headquarters and all the 800 jobs she has promised because I do not

want to be a doubting Thomas but the minister really needs to put flesh

on the bones and a short as this is for real? Well, I can absolutely

assure you it is for real. Mike commit went is for real. I think you

can see that. You can also see that we are moving very quickly. I think

that speaks for itself and I have a commitment to make sure that we

decentralise. Stephen Walker is back for me this evening with a few final

thoughts. Before we go, that issue, it is not going away. No, it is not.

This week we will have more evidence from the Northern Ireland affairs

committee, they are meeting tomorrow. We had a lot of evidence

from them last week. We had Peter Robinson and David Ford. Today, we

have had a development from the chair of the Northern Ireland

affairs committee. He has written to Gerry Kelly because he will not

appear before the committee. Lawrence Robinson has written to

Gerry Kelly to try and encourage him to take part in the proceedings. He

thinks he should come forward and give evidence and he questions why

Sinn Fein are prepared to give evidence to the review and are not

prepared to appear before his committee. He also says that other

Sinn Fein members in the past have given evidence to the Northern

Ireland affairs committee. He is trying to encourage Gerry Kelly to

come forward. In the meantime, more evidence at Westminster tomorrow.

Yes, tomorrow we will hear evidence from the former Secretary of State,

Peter Hain. Also from relatives of those who were killed in the Hyde

Park bombing. Essentially, this story is coming full circle because

that is where the story started with the bombing at Hyde Park. More

evidence from Peter Hain tomorrow and then in the weeks ahead, there

will be more evidence from high-profile political figures. We

are still expecting that report by the end of this month? We are still

expecting the report, the bubbly by the end of the month. Last week in

the House of Commons, the Secretary of State said whilst it was expected

at the end of June, it seems likely the date might slip. It might be

early July. But certainly, we should be getting it in the next three or

four weeks. What about the weather? A hot topic today. Yes, the hottest

day of the year. Even the shop at Stormont ran out of ice cream is. In

the chamber itself, the speaker was urged to relax the dress code. Would

you be minded to relax the regulations on the wearing of

jackets as the chamber is very warm? Members are feeling the heat. I am

extremely happy to allow members to remove their jackets. We were not

able to relax as you were not able to relax your dress code. And you

missed out on an ice lolly. We had one brought in just for you. You are

very kind. That is the closest I will get to a scoop at Stormont.

Thank you very much. That is all for today. You can tune in for the

sending politics this weekend. In the meantime, good night.

..as Antrim take on Donegal in the semi-final

The spectacular summer of sport continues on BBC Sport NI...

..tie and it's hanging, but this time it's over.

..as Antrim take on Donegal in the semi-final