18/03/2014 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up in the programme: With

council elections around the corner, the Assembly devotes two days to

debating local government. Many people told us we wouldn't get to

this point, that it would never be delivered.

The Environment Minister expresses his dissatisfaction with the closure

of the Driver Vehicle Agency in Coleraine. I am bitterly

disappointed and angered by this decision which represents nothing

more than a narrowly focused cost-cutting exercise made at the

expense of high quality public services.

And joining me with his views, the News Letter's political

correspondent, Sam McBride. Today saw the start of a mammoth

two-day session devoted to the consideration stage of the Local

Government Bill. With 115 amendments to get through, the Assembly will

sit again tomorrow. Much of today's debate concerned Alliance amendments

allowing for photography and audio debate concerned Alliance amendments

transparency'. Amendment 22 introduces a new clause seeking to

require councils so far as is practical to make audio recordings

of those parts of any council meeting excluding committee or

subcommittee meetings which are open to the public. Such an approach can

assist and provide clarity on the discussions that take place and help

to support the new ethical standards framework by removing doubts over

comments made. It is of concern that currently too many of our councils

operate in a way which is not open and transparent to local residents.

We too often see councils which seem convinced it is better to keep

decisions quite and avoid too much fuss. A prime example of this is the

existing council which has asked journalists to leave and regularly

frustrated residents trying to observe council proceedings. Even if

they are not disrupting proceedings in any detrimental way. It is also

crucial that people are able to access minutes, agendas and

background papers online so that we can take advantage of modern

technology to disseminate information more widely and more

quickly. Our amendments seek to make sure this is possible and taken

together will increase transparency and access to information. Though

review of the meetings except for small sections if we are in legal

advice or getting closed section, a record for members. Why would we not

want and welcome the openness and transparency and moving away from

the idea of councils, councillors in a smoke-filled rooms doing

the idea of councils, councillors in deals? The pro-smoking wing of the

DUP has been extinguished now but I am not surprised they would still

want, why they are fearful of the openness. Many people told us we

wouldn't get this point, people told us our PA would never be delivered

and while it sat on the shelf for too long, I think once the SDLP

ministers came into office, the process moved very quickly and I

think we're finally at a stage where we will have elections to new

councils and a whole new era in terms of local government. The SDLP

had reservations around some of the decisions that were previously taken

by the executive around numbers of councils and everything but win

assured we are absolutely committed to delivering what is an opportunity

to have a once-in-a-lifetime review and change in terms of how we

operate councils. Clearly this bill has come a long way, it is 14 years

since the proposal was started off back in the year 2000 but we are

where we are at this stage now. I would like to put on record firstly

my somewhat this appointment at the bill coming at such a short notice

last week and members and parties only had a day and a half to put

forward their amendments. On Amendment 22, there seems to be a

couple of issues, there does seem to be a high level of disparity of

information in terms of the cost of this. It goes beyond getting the

equipment, it goes to the use of the equipment, the maintenance and

according to this, the publication of the recordings and websites. The

reality is this is not just going to be a cheap solution and

reality is this is not just going to ratepayers. I have heard some say

suggesting that each council decide that themselves. Well, I must say I

think that would be a recipe for grievance. Because take my

constituency which will be in two different areas, are my constituency

in Ballymena to be afforded the option of audio recording of the

Antrim council so they can see and hear what is said or as my

constituency in Ballymoney, are they to be denied the facility? I was

asked if I would assist with the cost of these sound systems to local

government. If they are only ?160 I might but however I would not be

appropriate to fund this from a central government budget, the

recording of proceedings would be for the benefit of the ratepayers of

a council area therefore the cost should really be met through rates.

The Environment Minister, Mark H Durkan. Sam McBride from the News

Letter is with me. Why so much focus on audio recordings of proceedings

in future, first of all? Well, it is about setting the rules

for the new councils, they will have considerable new powers, planning,

that has enormous significance in financial terms for developers,

there were fears about the potential for corruption, in situations where

political parties don't have to reveal funding. This was the

Alliance party trying to play ground rules to be as open as possible

about what takes place. Also, potentially a bit of a look at the

future where newspapers and journalists and they are few on the

ground so some meetings may not be covered by anyone so if there is no

record of what is said, what the situation could be?

This mammoth debate caught some Members by surprise. How

so? Well, it seemed to come out quite quickly last week that this

was to take place today and tomorrow. Tomorrow's sitting was not

timetabled at the start. Tom Elliott mentioned they had a day and a half

to get some amendments together, that fed into the fact many parties

had no amendments. I was surprised big parties like Sinn Fein had no

amendments whatsoever. The TUV to Jim McAllister are generally keen to

tie things into legislation and they had no amendments. They may bring

some late on. Even the Green party have raised issues about this bill,

Basil McCrea, those people did not have anything to add. Many spoke but

were not proposing anything. It's an important piece of

legislation, clearly but the local elections are happening, whatever

the outcome of the next two days on 22nd May. You could forgive people

at home for being confused, couldn't you? Exactly. One irony is whether

the bill goes through now or not, the elections will go ahead. That

has been made clear. This process has been dogged by delays and

changes and U-turns and different boundaries and members of councils

so the public could be very confused, any journalist could and

politicians as well! It is a clear that the election will go ahead. The

councils will meet for if -- for a year.

Quite dry so far today. Tomorrow is likely to be a lot more interesting,

isn't it? Yes, the issue of flags and outside council headquarters and

how many days, there may be some heat in a debate but it will not go

far because SDLP and Sinn Fein concern has neutered that debate.

While there will be debate in the chamber, it will not come to much.

Sam, for now, thank-you. close Northern Ireland's Driver

Vehicle Agency, with the loss of 300 jobs. Mark H Durkan was responding

to an Urgent Oral Question tabled by Sinn Fein's Cathal O Hoisin. I am

bitterly disappointed and angered by this decision which represents

nothing more than a narrowly focused cost-cutting exercise made at the

expense of high quality public services, jobs and to the detriment

of the local economy. I am also extremely angry at the timing of the

announcement, in spite of assurances from ministers that I would be

informed in advance of any announcement and notwithstanding

that I made myself available to discuss this critical issue with

ministers at any time. It's disgraceful the announcement was

made whilst I was out of the country. For any of the members of

staff fortunate enough to be redeployed to other civil service

posts, what is unacceptable travel for those felt appropriate in the

civil service regime that they can travel? A lot of the workforce, the

bulk of whom are located in Coleraine, many work in part time

hours so therefore a reasonable travel distance will not be that

great for quite a lot of these employees. I believe we have to be

creative, myself and my executive colleagues in looking not at what

staff can be deployed to but at the work which can be redeployed to

staff. Can I ask what lessons can be learned? Well, I think it says a lot

about what weight Westminster puts on what happens here in the North,

about what weight they put on us as a devolved institution, when our

about what weight they put on us as Minister. We were

about what weight they put on us as decision would be taken at the

highest political level. The Environment Minister making very

clear his annoyance at last week's DVA job losses. The Regional

Development Minister faced questions today, and proceedings were

dominated by the A5?Londonderry to Aughnacloy. Sinn Fein's Declan

McAleer asked the minister for an update. There are four reports in

total dealing with nine different environmentally sensitive sites.

These reports will be the subject of a consultation exercise, expected to

be completed in 2014. A review of the matter is completed in the

environmental statement is ongoing, and will lead to the publishing of

an updated environmental statement which will also require a public

consultation exercise. A direction order will also be reviewed and

published at the same time, as part of this process. While I would

emphasise that I cannot in anyway pre-empt the outcome of a public

consultation exercise, an outline programme has been developed. Can he

give any reassurance that the department is so committed that this

project will not fall by default? I am grateful for his supplementary.

The member will know that the executive remains omitted to this

scheme, and indeed, the department continues to carry out all necessary

work. I did indicate that I cannot in any way pre-empt the outcome of

particularly the public consultation exercise. I have indicated the range

of activities which will be necessary to keep the project

moving. Financial considerations of course are a slightly different

matter, perhaps more context, -- complex,

matter, perhaps more context, -- determined. But as it stands, the

department continues to work through this scheme. We continue to tackle

the areas of concern which Mr Justice Stevens outlined. I

appreciate that mistakes occurred with your predecessor, the Sinn Fein

minister, but in terms of accountability, ultimately, who was

responsible for the failure to deliver on the FSA project, and

would your department be giving any further thought to keeping some of

those environmental assessments in house, within the Executive? I am

grateful for the simpler mantra question. I think there are issues

-- supplementary question -- which members of this House and the

general public deserve explanations for. We are not at the final stage

of either report. Preliminary results, however, we have sought to

implement, as we move forward not only in this scheme but on other

road schemes. That was Danny Kennedy on the lessons learned so far on the

A5?Londonderry to Aughnacloy Road scheme. Three times a year, the

Assembly Commission gets the chance to answer questions on the floor of

the chamber. It has the responsible at the of making sure the Assembly

has the property, staff and services required to carry out its work. In

terms of the oversight of expenditure, does the commission

have any oversight of the shameless squander that we saw over the

weekend, when the Committee On The took themselves, five members, to

Washington as part of that particular jamboree, and spent a

large amount of money, three of them from one party, one might add, to

look at a document on ethics. from one party, one might add, to

committee any oversight on squander by committees in this house? I am

not sure whether I thank the member for that question or not. The simple

answer is, no, the commission does not have that responsibility. The

commission in May 2013 determined that questions would be answered in

the language in which they were received. In effect, this means

questions are responded to in English only. E speaks Irish. Would

the member not agree with me that some members are excluded from using

Irish here, as a result of the Assembly Commission's policy of not

taking written or oral questions? With respect, there seems to be a

degree of misunderstanding. The procedures are that if somebody is

speaking a language other than English, they have to provide their

own simultaneous translation. As regards to written answers, those

are not actually determined in terms of the way they are received by the

commission. If I picked up the member correctly, it was with

reference to the member submitting what he was referring to. It is not

the responsible at the of the commission to determine the

procedures, in relation to the submission of questions to the

Assembly. That is a matter determined by the business office,

not a matter for the commission. That was Peter Weir, who sits on the

Assembly Commission. Fuel poverty was on the in tray of the Social

Development Minister, as was housing needs in West Belfast. As of

December 2013, the number of applicants on the housing waiting

list for greater West Belfast, covering West Belfast and other

areas, stands allegations, which include the

reallocation of existing housing stock and the development of new

social housing. Projected social housing need requirement for greater

West Belfast for the five year period up to 2018 has identified a

requirement for 2524 new social homes. Can I ask the minister, given

those figures, with something like 1000 families on the waiting list,

people living in hostels, clearly those figures will not meet the

need, in fact, will fall considerably short of that need,

given the fact that there is available land on some of those what

we call peace lines. Can he give any assurance other than what he has

already given today to those people who are on the waiting list, many of

them waiting in housing stress, to those individual families? The

waiting time is actually not dissimilar to what it is in west

Belfast. We must remember the whole issue, across the province. As

regards West Belfast, I have identified the fact that there is an

issue around the shortage of land. Certainly, that particular site is a

very substantial site. It would accommodate quite a number of

houses, several hundred houses. And therefore I think it is an important

one. I would hope that people will support that. It would provide 196

new social homes, together with giving 48 families the opportunity

to own their own home. But it has run into community and political

opposition. Does the minister believe that he and his department,

as well as his predecessor, did all that they could to alleviate fuel

poverty, the seemingly negligible impact that

we have had? In terms of the warm homes scheme, the boiler replacement

scheme, double glazing, energy efficiency, thermal in Cilic and of

housing, all of these things contribute towards improving energy

efficiency. -- thermal insulation. However we are very much depending

in Northern Ireland on oil as our main source of fuel. We are very

different from Great Britain, where there is a heavy reliance on gas,

which is cheaper. This is not something just for one department.

My colleague has been very proactive in terms of taking the gas network

to the west of the province, because that is an area where there is a

particular need, and access to gas will make a big difference. The

future of the long-awaited police, fire and prison training college

project at Desertcreat was the subject of an urgent oral question

today. Sandra Overend asked for an update

after it had been reported that a contractor had pulled out of the

project. The board was made aware that a preferred bidder was

experiencing pressures within the supply chain regarding the tender to

build new college. There were a number of media reports on the

issue, the position remains that the preferred bidder has not withdrawn

its tender, and discussions between them and the programme team are

ongoing. It would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, due

to the commercial sensitivities. It seems that the options are either

cutting back on the cost of the project, meaning it would no longer

be state-of-the-art, or finding additional money. What is the

minister's preference, and also, what is the likelihood of the

project needing to be tendered again? Well, Mr Speaker, I said the

current process is under way. The specific issue which she raises

about functionality, a significant amount of cost has been taken out

recently, something like ?20 million, but I have been assured by

the programme board that this has not affected the functionality of

the college, it has been simply not affected the functionality of

value for money. The design team has cost in the region of ?8.5 million,

of which ?6 million has been paid already. That company has admitted

failure in underestimating the costs. What assurances has the

minister received that this project can actually be delivered, given

that it now stands at ?157 million, when it was originally ?140 million?

Does he share the view of Judith Gillespie, in charge of this

project, who told the committee in August that this was still a viable

programme? I share the concerns raised about the issue of the

inability of consultants to get their work right. I understand that

the programme board is taking legal advice. That was the justice

minister, David Ford. The Assembly page tribute earlier to the life and

achievements of Lord Ballyedmond, who died in a helicopter crash in

Norfolk last week. The SDLP's Sean Rogers brought a matter of the day

to commemorate the leading businessman. Northern Ireland is

poorer following the death of Lord Bali. Our thoughts and prayers are

with the wider family at this time, -- Lord Ballyedmond. And also with

the families of the other people in the helicopter who lost their lives.

It is important that that goes on the record. The cars he was a true

friend of this Assembly. Through his personal drive, his determination

and single-mindedness, he made nor broke a world leader. The only

home-grown veterinary, pharmaceutical company, based in

Uri, exporting to over 120 countries. As a young boy who lost

his father very young in life, his mother set aside what money they had

to educate her children, and after he left school and went to America

for a short number of years, he came back and started selling drugs

basically out of the boot of a car. And from

Ireland. I would like to join with other MLAs who have paid tribute to

Lord Ballyedmond and Declan small, and the two pilots. This is a loss

for their families and a loss for Southdown. He was what Northern

Ireland needs more of. He was a business entrepreneur, someone who

created wealth and provided jobs, most especially, jobs in my

constituency, and in particular, jobs in Newry. Because of what he

did in the area, other companies were attracted into the area, and

the town is enjoying prosperity which we could not have invaded 40

years ago. Tributes there to Lord Ballyedmond, who died last week. I

have been rejoined by Sam McBride. Yes, he really tried to make the

point that with Stormont annoying Westminster, over the issue of

welfare reform, refusing to implement it, really they were not

expecting any favours from Westminster when they needed

something like the jobs saved in Coleraine. Whether that had any

impact on the decision, who knows? But I think that there is a weaker

hand, I suppose, for Stormont to play on issues like this, because

they have been so incredibly sluggish to make any kind of

decision on welfare. We discussed earlier that tomorrow is likely to

be lively in the chamber, with the second day of debate on the Local

Government Bill. Do you get the sense that members are moving into

election mode? I think they are very quickly moving into election mode.

One reason there might not have been so many amendments today was because

some parties were still selecting candidates for going through

election literature. I think the issue of flags tomorrow will be an

issue for the public, and in issue of flags tomorrow will be an

there is an amendment from the Ulster

there is an amendment from the issue of rates, which will have a

begin practising areas such as Castlereagh. It will have a real

impact on people's pockets. We will leave it there. Thank you, as ever.

Don't forget, the debate on the Local Government Bill continues

tomorrow, so we will have a special edition of the programme tonight on

BBC Two -- tomorrow night on BBC Two at 20 past 11.