20/03/2012 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. They say while the cat is away the

mice will play but as the first and Deputy First Minister celebrated a

belated St Patrick's Day, it was business as usual in the chamber.

The Finance Minister has strong words for the Chancellor's regional

pay idea of. It will be divisive, deflationary and it is not a good

tactic economically if you want to promote growth across the whole UK.

And there with a leadership race going up here but it was a

different race that had our MLAs out of the chamber.

And with animal welfare on the agenda, I am joined by Stephen will

pot of the USPCA. New and a full welfare legislation

is about to come into force in the next few weeks which is designed to

provide protection for pets, working animals and livestock but

there are some concerns about the changes. Stephen Philpott, you have

reservations about this. It is getting very late in the day, the

legislation is due a week on Saturday and we still have not

clarified where the animals are going. Rescued animals will be

going through some sort of third party who look after the animals

but as yet no one can tell us who that is. The tender documents do

not deal with how the animal is the disposed of. As a welfare

organisation that is a great concern. Are there any good part in

it? Yes, this is going to put Northern Ireland ahead of the game

with regards to the legislation and the budgetary side of this

legislation is not to be sneezed at, almost �750,000 will come from

Westminster. That is a big positive but we very much need to be

satisfied that this legislation will be enforced properly and the

animals will be the beneficiaries not the humans. It is a big change

for people, we will not be able to phone you for lost animals or

cruelty to animals, is that why? is a grey area. We believe that the

public will still continue to contact us. What we would have to

do is read direct them. We have to ascertain what type of animal and

then we will we direct them to local government to get their query

sorted out. That fills us with the dread because we deal with 7,000

calls a month and that brings its Channel jeers. To be direct those

calls will be a big issue. With a generous pay rise coming and

a day off yesterday, the agenda was packed with a double helping of

questions. Four half hour sessions instead of the usual two. We will

hear questions to the employment and learning Minister, but first

here is the agricultural Minister being asked about reform to the

single farm repayment scheme. new payment system due to its

complexity could have the potential to increase the risk of fines.

department over all departments has the most engagement in European

funding. It is very frustrating the said policies. How they are being

implemented and how you are faced with a fines. The proposals would

be so hard that Ministers will find it hard to administer. Potentially

moving from one payment to six would be hard to administer and you

would have the commission watching every stage of that. We are in

negotiation stage and we have to get this process simple as possible.

Four fines could be on the way and in particular the horse mussel

weeks. We are looking at a multi- million pound infraction find. Does

she accept it is a failure on behalf of her department that we

find ourselves in this unpleasant position? This issue has been going

on for quite some time as the member is quite aware. There has

been a number of actions taken in terms of increasing exclusion zones,

a management plan put in place but the commission, the Queen's

University report was keep in moving forward. On to employment

and learning. They wanted to know if the Minister had plans for

retraining outgoing present offenders. I recognise this is a

particular cohort of people who have a particular set of needs. We

are not talking about a redundancy situation but these are people who

will have the ability to make a further contribution to the economy

and the Careers Service of by department is very much available

to everyone in Northern Ireland, adults included. I will certainly

strongly recommend anyone in that circumstance to make contact with

the careers service through their local jobs and benefits office and

to make an appointment to discuss their future opportunities. Can I

ask the Minister, given the vast amount of money that has been set

aside for severance in this scheme, does the Minister agree that when

an enhanced package like that is available, that people should not

be allowed to go back into the service again? There should be a

cause. It is important that we distinguish -- responsibilities and

the direct command the member has asked me something my collie the

Minister of Justice would be better placed to respond to. Public sector

workers are holding their breath for tomorrow's Budget over plans to

introduce regional rates of pay. The pilots Minister Sammy Wilson is

flying to London tonight and plans to speak during the Budget debate

at Westminster. I asked him to outline his objections to the idea.

He has to look at what happens to benefits. Do you realise benefits

because you cannot have a situation where people in work have their

wages frozen and people in benefits have it improved by inflation every

year. You close the gap between work and being out of work. The

Government is talking about making work pay and once you start down

this road you are going to hit the poorest by having to reduce

benefits in areas like Northern Ireland. How do you sort out the

difference in the rate of pay between the public and private

sector? If you go back four yes -- years ago, private sector wages

were a bar of public sector wages in many situations. For example,

when I was the Minister, we could not hold on to officers. We could

not hold on to a technical staff in the health service. Joiners,

electricians because they were going to the private sector because

wages were so good and this is a swings and roundabouts. Daybreak

they get the private sector wages up is to get the economy growing,

once it is growing, there will be an increase in demand for labour

and that will pull the wages are. You do not get better wage parity

by making the economy even poorer because in doing that you will

enforce rages in the private sector, which are very sensitive to

economic activity, down further. You say you will not stop this on

your own, we do support industrial action? I would prefer to see a

proper political debate about this. If this were debated properly in

the House of Commons and all live the consequences of the it teased

out, then there will be a lot of people on the benches as well as

the opposition benches who realised this is a bad policy. It is not an

economically sensible policy and the Government will be forced to

pull it up. Is there a sense of regret that the Executive did not

take control of public sector pay when it was offered? There is not

because to have separate pay negotiations here in Northern

Ireland would have meant we would have to set up a whole

infrastructure for those negotiations which would have been

costly in itself. Secondly, I think if there is a national rate for a

job, whether you are a teacher in Northern Ireland or London, you are

still doing the same job. It is better to have those rates agreed

rather than to have devolution of them. I have no doubt that Gordon

Brown offered it at that stage and we were sensitive to this. He often

did because it was another way of him being able to put the squeeze

of from the Treasury on Northern Ireland because he simply said,

let's cut the Northern Ireland a block grant and ensured they can

make the adjustment by negotiating lower wages with the public sector

employees. MLAs voted through two motions on

animal where fell. The first that procedures other than beds are

carried out on animals. The second livestock. Prohibited procedure

involves interference of the tissues and bone structure of an

animal. To insure the procedures that are commonly undertaken by lay

permanent -- persons remained legal, the regulations set out the

procedures and which may be carried out by the lay person. The

regulation will provide clarity by listing all those procedures are

acceptable for a lay person to perform and also provide clarity

Stephen, there was some housekeeping going on in the

Chamber. Going back to an issue we saw last week, just interested to

find out about the badger baiting and what sort of response have you

had? There's been a massive response to the work we did with

the BBC last week. Our phones have rung off the hook. People who have

not spoken to the USPCA for years are keen to tell us what they have

seen in the countryside and where they have seen it. Interesting news

from Wales this afternoon on this ongoing debate about the badger

cull? The news out of Wales late this afternoon - I was on my way

here when I was text - the Welsh Assembly have decided to cancel the

plan cull of badgers. They have now decided they are not going to do it.

They are based that on scientific information. As a welfare

organisation, we would welcome that. Thank you. It's 25 years since the

first IVF baby was born here in Northern Ireland. It was timely,

therefore, for members to discuss the perceived failings of the

Health Service to deliver fertility treatment. They're calling on the

Health Minister to fund three full cycles of IVF for couples who can't

conceive, as opposed to the current one cycle. Here's the Health

Committee Chair, Sue Ramsey, outlining the problem. We should be

providing a cycle. The only chance to try again is to go privately.

Going privately will cost people in and around �4,000. If it doesn't

work, and then they try a third cycle, that is another �4,000. So

in total, couples could find themselves in and around �8,000 in

debt, at a time when you are trying for a baby, this can create more

stress at a very emotional time for couples. What happens in practice

here is the couples go for Health Service treatment and receive one

fresh cycle of IVF. If it doesn't result in a pregnancy, then that is

it in terms of treatment available to them. However, half of the

couple also have generated frozen embryos. -- couples will have

generated frozen embrie owes. The only way they can use -- embryos.

The only way they can use these is to pay to have them transferred. We

are on tricky moral ground here. We are creating embryos for people in

the Health Service as part of the public-funded treatment. In the

case of any frozen embryos being available, we are only allowing

them to be transferred on the private sector. It was a short

debate with little dissent, however Jim Allister did raise three points

he wished to see clarified. first pertains to the fact as part

of the process ultimately there is destruction of unused embryos. An

embryo is biologically a human embryo, is a living human being at

the earliest stage of its development. Of course it needs -

it is dependent upon the mother to give it nurture and life, but

genetically it is a distinct organism different from both the

egg and the sperm. The second issue that I would have concerns about is

the development of process, particularly in the United States,

of sex selection within IVF treatment where you have that

particular dimension. The Minister maybe can tell us how far, if at

all, that is permitted within Northern Ireland's arrangements.

The third issue which does concern me is something not referred to in

the NICE guidelines, is the question of the use or abuse of IVF

treatment by lesbian couples. response, the Minister, Edwin Poots,

made it clear the guidelines for embryo storage and on sex selection

were laid down by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology

Authority and that he was personally opposed to sex selection.

On same-sex couples he said the treatment was available to all

eligible couples. We've heard many of the arguments for and against

the plastic bag levy, environmental and economic, but what about health

and safety? The Environment Committee has been hearing expert

evidence on that topic and we'll hear more in a minute. But we start

our look at the work of the committees with health, where

members were hearing evidence on a planned private psychiatric

hospital. Am I right in thinking - this new facility will not be

subject to the Freedom of Information Act, unlike a Trust

facility? Is that not an immediate impediment? Does that mean for

instance if we were to ask a question about provision, that we

would get a response saying, "This is a private company, it is none of

our business." Will that cause some unease? There will be a requirement,

registration includes a requirement - sorry, a requirement on a private

health facility to provide the Department with such reports it

requires for the purpose of its operation under the mental health

order. Failure to provide that information will constitute an

offence. Would that be the same as if the information had been

available for a state-run institution? The same information

will be provided by this facility each time someone is detained there,

so a Freedom of Information will apply and any Trust who place

people in this. As Christine has already said, Article 93-E provides

that the Department and other bodies can obtain what information

they want from a private organisation and that organisation

must provide it because it is an offence not to do so. I understand.

But does that mean it is available to the public under the normal way

under FOI? We have the information from the private company so we

can't divulge that to you? It would be my view that if the Department

holds information about a private facility, we would be required to

provide it. We do support the work that's been done on environmental

issues in every way. However, we have a serious concern about the

introduction of this charge because we see this as a potential food

safety issue. We are concerned about the risk of cross-

contamination and because of that risk, we sat down with our members

and discussed it and decided we would get independent research

carried out to establish whether there was a risk of cross-

contamination, whether consumers would be put at risk of consuming

food that had been put into multi- use bags and we engaged Professor

McDowell on my right to carry out that research on our behalf. Just

looking at the science, it is clear there is a potential significant

risk of bacterial cross- contamination in relation to bags

to carry hot-food items. The scientific evidence demonstrates

that contact with the surface of a previously-used bag is likely to

lead to the transfer of bacteria on ready-to-eat foods. Food can carry

potentially dangerous bacteria but these are killed by standard

cooking processes either inside or outside the home. Bacteria can

recontaminate food after cooking. There is nothing to stop them

getting into people and causing serious disease. Looking at the

Welfare Bill, do you see a point over the next week or so that you

will get clarification on what is going to happen? Or will it be put

into practice and then it will be solved one way or the other? I know

there are meetings scheduled over the next ten or 11 days. We think

it is very, very late in the day for some of these important issues

to be left this close to the deadline to be resolved. Other

issues we have with the Bill are the recruitment process is now over.

The new Animal Welfare Officers have been recruited. We are

disappointed those people aren't from a welfare background. Animal

welfare and animal control are two different tasks. As we saw in the

Dogs Order, controlling dogs and ensuring for their welfare were two

separate things. We need to be very sure that the legislation is being

brought in and is going to be implemented for the animals'

benefit, not for the Government's. Thanks very much. It was an economy

and finance double header for the second half of Question Time. Golf

tourism, hurling tourism, what could be next? Here's the Economy

Minister, Arlene Foster, on the economic boost the Irish Open Golf

Championship at Royal Portrush will bring. Let's hope she turns up at

the right course! We haven't staged an event such as this for nearly 60

years, so we, as a Department, are working very much in partnership

with our colleagues at Royal County - that is the wrong place! The

Portrush Golf Club and the council and with other partners in DRD

because we realise that we need to have a delivery structure in place

to ensure the effective co- ordination across all of the

Departments and all of the local governments. Would the Minister

agree that we should look at promoting GAA tourism in particular

hurling tourism given we have some of the best hurling teams in the

world in North Antrim? Order. This is certainly very focused on golf!

LAUGHTER Order. Access to finance is a huge issue. This member wanted

to know had all avenues been explored. Can I ask whether she

feels that the introduction of a credit review office or agency

which would give small businesses an opportunity to appeal

unsuccessful loan applications would prove a beneficial aspect of

getting businesses more access to finance? As I understand it, that

is a scheme that works in the Republic of Ireland. I think the

junior minister has looked at this issue in the context of the

economic sub-group. It is a matter we are discussing at that sub-

committee. At last, a helping hand for retailers. Together with

executive colleagues, I propose to carry out a comprehensive

consultation with the independent retail sector to identify areas of

difficulty and develop a co- ordinated approach to helping the

sector overcome these. At present, a range of advisory support to

business is provided, including ICT advice. Retail businesses will also

be able to benefit from the new �5 million loans fund through which

three to five year unsecured loans will be available to viable

businesses in all sectors. On to finance questions, and the equal

pay issue. Could I ask the Minister why are PSNI staff excluded from

the settlement and yet Policing Board staff are included in the

settlement? Well, if I could deal with the Policing Board staff

first? The Policing Board staff were not entitled to the lump sum

payments. The Policing Board staff were paid in error based on

incomplete information. That information later came to light.

But the payments had already been made to the staff. No attempt has

been made by the Policing Board to recoup that money. So let's make it

something quite clear here. That payment was paid in error. There

was no entitlement there. The Policing Board did not present all

of the information at the time. Therefore, the payment was made. As

far as the PSNI staff are concerned, the agreement that was negotiated

was negotiated by Northern Ireland civil service staff, was agreed and

it was only for Northern Ireland civil service staff. If the police

and the police do have money for the equal pay claim, that money was

negotiated and sits in the police budget at present, but the Police

Service of Northern Ireland, who are the employers and who have the

pay delegation have to show that there is an equal pay entitlement.

The Green Party's Stephen Agnew has a bee in his bonnet about the new

golf course resort near the Giant's Causeway. Mark Devenport can

explain - along with the latest on the Ulster Unionist leadership

campaign. Mike Nesbitt didn't make any official statement today. But

it did come up in the course of a question that he was trying to ask

to the Agriculture Minister. Mike Nesbitt dealt with it like this.

they call me leader? Question four, Mr Speaker.

Not yet! And Mark, the other leadership contender had some

interesting thoughts in the newsletter today? Yes, he said that

if he became leader, he would expel David McNarry from the party. He is

involved in disciplinary action which is all to do with newspaper

reports and talks between the Ulster Unionists and the DUP. This

is what he had to say. I just think that it's run far too long and we

need to bring it to a close. McNarry said he intended to clear

his name in the disciplinary proceedings and he said that

statement said more about the depth of his ability to unite the party

than anything else. An interesting question to the Environment

Minister? This is in relation to the Giant's Causeway golfing resort

which was announced with so much fanfare and the Environment

Minister decided that financial and tourist considerations would

outweigh any environmental concerns. He's raised a question about a bee

that has been seen up around that area in the dunes near Giants

Causeway. Stephen Agnew is concerned lest it might be affected

by this and wanted to know whether UNESCO had been informed. A

conservation report is on its way but he repeats in this instance, he

felt there were circumstances which outweighed the environmental

concerns to press ahead. We will have to see what happens to the bee,

whether it turns out to be a fly in the golfing ointment! If some of

our MLAs looked a bit jaded this afternoon, it's because they ran

the mile up the road to Parliament Buildings for Sport Relief at

lunchtime. The DUP, Ulster Unionists and Alliance took part

along with the SDLP who took silver and gold, with Conall McDevitt and

his colleague Mark Durkan across the finish line well before

everyone else. Mervyn Storey gets a special mention though for running

the mile in his suit - and as for our political correspondent Gareth

Gordon - well the pictures speak for themselves really. It is a

great opportunity to raise awareness and money for a good

cause and to have a bit of fun and exercise at the same time! It's

good that, as public representatives, we are taking part

in such things and raising the profile of causes such as Sport

Relief. You are getting a bit of name for yourself with all this

sporting stuff after your boxing? I'm not a good sportsman! It is a

fun way to highlight a good cause. It's a good charity to back. Also,

some much-needed exercise. It is a great opportunity to support a very

worthwhile cause. Obviously, it is great to get out in the fresh air.

It is a break to get some exercise. It is fantastic. Well done to