20/09/2011 Stormont Today


20/09/2011

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Hello and welcome to Stormont Today, where we distil the finest speeches

:00:26.:00:30.

from the Assembly and bring you the intoxicating highlights. On

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tonight's programme, David Ford faces his first question time of

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the new term and, despite some progress, he notes there is still

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work to do on peace lines. I am clear their community consent

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remains the key driver for change, however their areas where agreement

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for positive change does not exist. Measuring up for the job - but are

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too many of these creating weighty issues for our MLAs?

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Are training colleges here producing too many teachers?

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Teaching union leader Tony Carlin is here to discuss the latest

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Are we training too many teachers here? With those leaving college

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struggling to get jobs, the Education Minister is under

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pressure to do more to help. Is following the Scottish model and

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introducing a guaranteed employment for one year the solution? Or does

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it just push the problem further down the line? Let's get the views

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of one union. Tony Carlin is from The Irish National Teachers

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Organisation. How are we training too many teachers? We would

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disagree that we are because there are still disciplines work is

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difficult to get those specialisms. We believe that the teacher

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training colleges operate an admission policy and that that

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policy dos generation professional teachers. On to money, they may

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find work, but not in Northern Ireland's. That is the problem.

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teacher I heard this morning, did his class of 22, on the five have

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got jobs. We talk continually to newly-qualified teachers throughout

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the year and provide them with experience and the skills that are

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necessary to go for interviews, but we continually find that their

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unsuccessful. They compete vigorously for employment and in a

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market place or each one of them is highly skilled, but they're not

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able to get those jobs other than substitute implement. Would you

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like to see the Scottish model employed, giving every new a fight

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- - every newly qualified teacher when you have experience? We have

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been at the front are proposing this. It is an important step and

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it would give newly-qualified teachers the experience but the

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need. It would allow them to see if they are suited to teaching in the

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classroom. The minister today set the we would wait to see the

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outcome of an evaluation of what happened in Scotland, but the

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longer we wait the longer more teachers would leave to work in

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Scotland or England, Wales or further afield. Bottomley, our

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training colleges will become training colleges and only that and

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we will become a training agency were expertise it exported to the

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benefit of people not here. The Justice Minister, David Ford,

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is never far from the headlines and he was up taking questions today

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with the Police Ombudsman high on the list. Before that, Peter

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Robinson was facing his first questions of the new term. Here he

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is answering a question from Daithi McKay on an inquiry into

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institutional child abuse. executive at its meeting on 7th

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July discuss the inter-departmental task force recommendations and

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asked junior ministers to contact survivors over at the coming months

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to talk about those recommendations. Junior ministers have that with

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five victims and survivors groups and ministers had met with the

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officials responsible for managing historical abuse of inquiries in

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Scotland and the Republic of Ireland. The information gathered

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will inform our report will be submitted to the executive before

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it makes its final decision in the autumn. Can I thank the Minister

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for his answer. This is a sensitive issue, but can I ask if he

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recognises the concerns of many of those who suffered abuse at round

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the issue of whether people can be compelled, and will any inquiry

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have statutory powers? This is something the executive has to

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decide upon. The member is probably aware that we have received a

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report on the task force. But recommends and non-statutory

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inquiry, however during the course of meetings with the victims'

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groups there was a view from victims which will lead towards us

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believing that they wanted a statutory inquiry. I am not sure

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that all the victims are aware of the pros and cons of a statutory

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inquiry. There is the possibility of us looking at something like

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that proposition they might have some elements do other statutory

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basis and some not. I would point out to victims and sells that if we

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take the statutory route the only statutory provision that is

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available to us would limit the period of an inquiry to between

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1973 and 1989 and I don't think that is going to assist victims. If

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we have to bring forward new legislation it could be two years

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before we would be proceeding. I acknowledge the work the first

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and Deputy First Minister have done on this issue. Can I invite the

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First Minister to acknowledge to the house but it is about getting

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this right rather than getting it quickly and that the needs of

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survivors will only be able to be properly met, albeit over a longer

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period of time, if we do have a fleet independent statutory based

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inquiry. I Twohig knowledge that it is important that we get it right.

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Every party will have their own views and not all victims agree on

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what the process should be. It is important that if we have a

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statutory inquiry but the statutory element of it does not increase the

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paean that victims have already gone through. In many cases, if

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they have to give evidence to be cross-examined, but may well do it.

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You can have a statutory inquiry were the only person who will be

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obliged to come is the person he is accused. Next up was David Ford's,

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taking questions on the Police Ombudsman. Does the Minister accept

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that the independence of the ombudsman's office has been law to

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such an extent but the current ombudsman longer enjoys the

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confidence of the Sinn Fein, SDLP and many families affected by the

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conflict? Kit is clear that there are concerns about the independence

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of the Office of the ombudsman, but a rare fare the member to what they

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said yesterday that it is clear that the vast majority of work

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being done to the on button office is proceeding well and has been

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received well by those who refer cases and those who receive those

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reports back. The issue of dealing with the star it matters is an

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issue which has added complication to the ombudsman's office. What is

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clear is that we require a functioning ombudsman's Office to

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deal with current cases and the Ombudsman has himself said that he

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is willing to picket the offices and as a replacement is appointed.

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Would the Minister agree with me that the original role which he has

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outlined of the ombudsman was to investigate current police cases

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where there are complaints, and with regard to that rule the

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Ombudsman Office has done what anybody would describe as a

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reasonable job, and that moving him into the remit of investigating

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historical cases has led to huge problems with in that department?

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Yes, I will agree with the member on what the original perception may

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have been. The reality is we are required to have a good mechanism

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in place to deal with this Turkish Jews. At the moment the ombudsman

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Office does that. At the moment there is no alternative mechanism

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in place and its it is the duty on a number of other people, and not

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on the ombudsman, to find an alternative mechanism which might

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help this society as a whole resolve the outstanding issues of

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the past. Kier David Forde is responding to a question on the

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issue of peace lines. I am clear their cupidity consent is the key

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driver for change and a recognise the work done by community groups

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to bring about the right conditions for change, however there remain

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areas where agreement for positive change does not yet exist.

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Following the riots in East Belfast in June and in support of the

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review being carried out, I commissioned a review of the

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security infrastructure in the area. I visited the area to speak at

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local clergy and officials are mad about it had held meetings with

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committee representatives and local residents to hear their concerns.

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Some work has been done to improve security fences on the law

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Newtownards Road and Bridgend. In addition, the Bryson Community

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Enterprise Building, which has been used as a launching pad for a tax,

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has been made more to cure. I'm currently considering what further

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:10:58.:11:01.

measures need to be taken to ensure public safety. There was a call

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today for no more hokey kokey round the executive table! The serious

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point was when would a programme for government be made? I think

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that the complaints about why it has taken so long to be produced

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are somewhat misplaced. The previous speaker mentioned but the

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nature of the system of government but we have were we have five

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parties in a mandatory coalition, by its very nature makes it more

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difficult, and not just by parties but five parties have fundamentally

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different views, makes a much more difficult to produce a document

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such as a programme for government than it might be elsewhere. But

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slows things down. We have seen that with other major issues. I

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would be happy, and am sure many members would be happy to see a

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different form of government but would speed things up, but as far

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as I can recall the party which has brought this motion forward still

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opposes a different form of government that would speed things

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up, so you can have it both ways. You can't complain about the system

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Pat Rice things to a halt then oppose any changes to it. Two of

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the parties have been acting in a hokey kokey approach to the

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executive, Wonford in and one for about. When the executive was going

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away to try to deal with these circumstances, one minister for the

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Ulster Unionist Party... the bigger spending department said nothing

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over the entire meeting. I hope their march from Tom Elliot will

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show a new approach, but the parties will come together. While

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some members have questioned did delay in bringing forward the

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programme for government, now is not the time to point fingers.

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Instead we need to look forward and I believe our constituents want us

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to do that, at how we are to achieve a more realistic

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sustainable and necessary programme for government. Dominic Bradley

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joins us now. Once that the income will want that outcome is that of

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the SDLP did last time? I think it is ironic, that remark coming from

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Conor Murphy of Sinn Fein, but on the very day that his Deputy First

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Minister Martin McGuinness stepped out and if John O'Dowd stepped in

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again... of the criticism that Conor Murphy has directed towards

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us would be better if it was directed to his own party. They are

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two different scenarios. He is saying that unless you go into

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opposition and the proper opposition party you should accept

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what has put on the table and come together and put some of the

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differences aside for the good of the wider public. We are fully

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participating in the executive, but that does not mean to say the

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people like herself as a backbencher is going to say it's

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like a nodding dog passing everything that is proposed by Sinn

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Fein. That is not the reason I was elected. I was elected to hold the

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government to account and that is what I intend to do, whether it be

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at committees or on the floor of the assembly as they did today.

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Some of the points you put forward, looking at tourism and food, they

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are important sectors, but shouldn't there be a greater

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emphasis on manufacturing and exports? I did say during the

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course of my contribution to day that we need to grow a private-

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sector to produce more wealth and to be less dependent on a public

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sector which has gradually been eroded by the government in London.

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I would be in favour of growing the industries that you have penchant,

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but a programme for government is much wider and it is the policy

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which direct spending and without that, spending can be directionless,

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and that is dangerous. The whole process of forming a programme of

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government I believe allows people to participate in democracy. It

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allows the trade unions to have their say and allows non-government

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organisations to have their say and it gives a greater by into

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government. I believe that process of forming the Programme for

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Government should be almost complete by now. We did leave the

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Budget to the last minute and anybody listening today may have

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felt quite frustrated by the end of its thinking why don't they just

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get on with it instead of talking about it all day? If you remember

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back to that period, the stumbling block was difficulties that Sinn

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Fein presented to the formation of the Budget. Now they are trying to

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lay the blame at the doorstep of the SDLP. Six months after the

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Budget with no programme for government, I don't think that is

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acceptable. That is where brought the motion today. I hope the debate

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will give some impetus to the process and that we will have a

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programme for government sooner rather than later.

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It was a case of 'must try harder' as MLAs spent most of the afternoon

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debating that problem of graduate teachers unable to get jobs. One

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newspaper today claimed around 5,000 young teachers are out of

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work. The issue has come up time and time again in the Chamber and

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the DUP's Michelle McIlveen, a former teacher herself, said it was

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like Groundhog Day. It was June 2007, over four years

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ago, that the issues surrounding the employment prospects of newly-

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qualified teachers were first raised in a notice of motion before

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the assembly, and now we're here once again debating this issue.

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to recalled that the be its and the one think that they defined

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remarkable is that since four years ago the situation with regard to

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recruitment of new teachers is getting worse. Two years ago it was

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sitting up 14 % who found implement straight away, last year it was 10

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%. This year it is 5%. Whilst I agree with you that we are having a

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Groundhog Day Today, it is unfortunately now far worse for

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those who have gone through the teacher training this year then it

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was four years ago, which I think you will agree with the is

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regrettable. A we will have to look shortly of the merger of

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Stranmillis and Queen's, for my money we have to bite the bullet

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and the cats in Aires as well. We are producing too many teachers

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with not enough jobs. The minister should take the decision and manage

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the labour supply of our teachers. The reality is that there are many

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principles and when the need a substitute teacher they ring up a

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former teacher. The ring of somebody with the experience which

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perpetuates itself. But we are not going to give these young teacher

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to chance to get started, they will never be able to get into the

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system. That is the human tragedy of this. Young teachers are being

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overlooked for these temporary posts. Many school principals are

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taking the easy way out. I have friends to a retired teachers and I

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have said to them you're keeping a young person I do the job. But is

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something we have to face up to. I call on the department to visit to

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this. I know some guidelines have been issued, but they are being

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ignored. My department has a reducing guidance out to schools.

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We have changed the current funding formula which means that schools

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will meet the cost of debt. There are members of the education

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committee wanting to change that. They see it as a burden on the

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schools. You can have it both ways. We can only do it through

:19:59.:20:09.
:20:09.:20:10.

legislation, or through taxation. We have insureds that schools are

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being on a church on how they employ staff, and I would encourage

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any member of the Assembly who is a member of the board of governors to

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use their influence when it comes to new employment matters but they

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insist that the board of governors at here to the guidance and insist

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that the boards of governors give a chance to newly-qualified teachers.

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Abbott also say that in terms of the Reporting Scotland, I am aware

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that Scotland has provided a year's for newly-qualified teachers. It

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has been costed and will cost us �20 million a year. It is carried

:20:51.:20:54.

the been reviewed by the Scottish Executive. I have asked my

:20:54.:21:02.

officials to monitor the situation and report back to me. If there are

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favourable recommendations coming out of that, I can assure you I

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will bring it to the attention of the committee and to the executive

:21:10.:21:14.

to fund any opportunity to ensure our newly qualified teachers are

:21:14.:21:24.
:21:24.:21:27.

Where does your union's stand on that a merger? We have not made a

:21:27.:21:32.

decision formally on that. If there is one college, then we will look

:21:32.:21:37.

at those proposals. Ultimately, the education training colleges need to

:21:37.:21:46.

meet -- make the needs of the schools in Northern Ireland.

:21:46.:21:50.

you minded towards supporting a merger? Put in Chile it will save

:21:50.:21:55.

money. It may save money, but ultimately, the it training

:21:55.:22:03.

colleges did to deliver what is needed by the schools. If we lose

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expertise or jobs, then there may be issues. Would like to see what

:22:08.:22:12.

the proposals are in detail before we would comment on those

:22:12.:22:21.

specifically. Thank you. 21 very brave MLAs have signed up

:22:21.:22:23.

to an eight-week programme to lose weight and improve their lifestyles.

:22:23.:22:26.

They agreed to be measured and weighed in return for advice on

:22:26.:22:31.

shedding a few pounds. It is part of a wider drive to get us all to

:22:31.:22:34.

think a bit more about our health. One of the brave souls, the DUP's

:22:34.:22:40.

Jim Wells is here now. You were very brave indeed to allow yourself

:22:40.:22:45.

to be weighed and measured in public. We are, I think, but I

:22:45.:22:50.

think we will need the spotlight of the media to embarrass us and

:22:50.:22:54.

forces into losing weight and getting fatter. This is a very

:22:54.:22:58.

useful program that not only makes us healthier but highlights obesity

:22:58.:23:04.

and its impact on people's health. You do not look as if you need to

:23:04.:23:09.

was a few Pounds. Unfortunately, when the tape measure came out, it

:23:09.:23:17.

revealed that I have a 45 inch waste. I am probably the right

:23:17.:23:26.

weight, but that is all on the wrong place. It is all around my

:23:26.:23:31.

stomach. That has an impact on vital organs. This that the sticks

:23:31.:23:35.

are clear that the heavier you are around the waist, the more

:23:35.:23:45.
:23:45.:23:45.

vulnerable you are to illness. is easier said than done, isn't it,

:23:46.:23:51.

to put the chips and chocolate away and go for the fruit and vegetables.

:23:51.:23:55.

I think what the team have shown has already is that it does not

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have to be a miserable experience. If you eat well and eat properly,

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you will have some success. They are asking us to do two hours of

:24:06.:24:15.

exercise a day. That means that if he were doing that, that is a bit

:24:15.:24:21.

of exercise. Our problem is that we spend the but majority of a ten

:24:21.:24:31.
:24:31.:24:33.

minutes dented the position. -- in her sitting position. Are bowls of

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fruit part of this drive? Yes, that there is a step in the right

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direction. The caterers here are good at offering good, nutritional

:24:44.:24:48.

and the vegetarian option. The problem is that we spent 90% over

:24:48.:24:52.

time sitting us we are now and not getting any exercise. The results

:24:52.:24:56.

are inevitable and it gathers round the waist and that is dangerous.

:24:56.:25:02.

Good luck with it. Martin McGuinness handed in his

:25:02.:25:05.

nomination papers today for the Irish Presidency. And he is not the

:25:05.:25:09.

only MLA heading south. For that and the other goings-on at Stormont

:25:09.:25:15.

today, I spoke to our political editor Mark Devenport.

:25:15.:25:23.

Jim Allister felt there was an attempt to silence him. Yes. It was

:25:23.:25:31.

more notable for a question not being asked than being asked. The

:25:31.:25:35.

question is whether the officer First Minister needed aid adviser.

:25:35.:25:40.

He was re-routed because his question was directed instead to

:25:40.:25:43.

the finance departments, against his wishes. This is something that

:25:43.:25:50.

he objected to. I direct you to the content of question three. It is

:25:50.:25:58.

Department specific, it relates precisely and asking why they need

:25:58.:26:03.

eight special advisers. Why, in those circumstances, is this

:26:03.:26:06.

question been diverted to a different department, particularly

:26:06.:26:12.

when one examines that rules and can find no authority for that. I

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have taken the trouble of consulting the business of us.

:26:18.:26:22.

concern is that this is a conspiracy. It comes after an been

:26:22.:26:29.

not called to speak on the debate today. He thinks that the powers

:26:29.:26:33.

that be here are simply growing tired of him making his voice of

:26:33.:26:37.

constant opposition heard. Despite what was said yesterday about

:26:37.:26:44.

business as usual for the Assembly, it was not quite that way. Where he

:26:44.:26:48.

may have many talents, he cannot spot himself and be in two places

:26:48.:26:54.

at once. There had been due to be a meeting of party leaders happening

:26:54.:26:59.

today, walking presumably on incomes like the programme for

:26:59.:27:02.

government, but that had to be recruited as well, largely because

:27:02.:27:07.

Mr O'Dowd was dealing with an education debate and that is the

:27:07.:27:11.

kind of by the clash that they will have to try and work out if they

:27:11.:27:15.

are going to proceed smoothly over the next six weeks. And even more

:27:15.:27:22.

MLAs are on the move now. Yes, we were reporting last night about

:27:22.:27:26.

MLAs from the Regional Development Committee going off to examine a

:27:26.:27:32.

bus way. Perhaps while they are there they can look at the French

:27:32.:27:37.

way of solving Protestant afoot was back in the 16th century. Whilst

:27:37.:27:42.

they were off to France, the had various agricultural minded MLAs

:27:42.:27:45.

from the agriculture committee planning a completely different

:27:45.:27:50.

furrow. They were at the ploughing Championships at Kildare. It may be

:27:50.:27:55.

hard over the next couple of days to find and Emily still month --

:27:55.:28:05.
:28:05.:28:09.

still around the place. -- MLA. There are lots of other questions

:28:09.:28:11.

facing her system rather have done the newly qualified teachers.

:28:11.:28:15.

are trying to work through the strategic forum to try and come up

:28:15.:28:19.

with solutions. Interestingly, in relation to the newly qualified

:28:19.:28:27.

teachers, is to say that if we propose to the teacher -- the

:28:27.:28:30.

Minister when he looks at newly qualified teachers, perhaps it

:28:30.:28:38.

might be right that the voluntary sector employed people in a nursery

:28:38.:28:47.

education. Also it would look at the picture of employing lecturers

:28:47.:28:53.

and keeping newly qualified teachers from obtaining post.

:28:53.:28:56.

that an anchovy by Abel? Normally people in that sector did bid

:28:56.:29:00.

substantially less. When you look at the cost, newly qualified

:29:00.:29:06.

teachers are not that much more expensive. We are asking the

:29:06.:29:13.

Minister to look again and instead of giving teachers, give it newly

:29:13.:29:17.

qualified teachers employment and not just leave it that we have to

:29:17.:29:21.

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