21/05/2013 Stormont Today


21/05/2013

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Hello and welcome to Stormont today. Coming up in the next 30 minutes:

:00:26.:00:30.

You can go your own way was the message from Michael Gove on

:00:30.:00:34.

A-levels today. That wasn't the only education story making headlines.

:00:34.:00:37.

The member has said that the department failed to listen to

:00:37.:00:42.

schools. Well, that's partially true. It's partially true across a

:00:42.:00:48.

number of delivery agencies within this and as minister for, in charge

:00:48.:00:51.

of the department I have to take a certain amount of responsibility for

:00:51.:00:54.

that. As the Shared Future document is debated Peter Robinson comes

:00:54.:01:01.

under fire. It is unfortunate, Mr Speaker, that the hiss tarks of the

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First Minister last week did sour the tone of a potentially

:01:05.:01:09.

constructive engagement around a Shared Future document. I'm joined

:01:09.:01:16.

by the former school principal Michelle Marken.

:01:16.:01:21.

The cost of training teachers is almost 40% higher here than it is in

:01:21.:01:25.

England. That's according to the Minister for Employment and

:01:25.:01:27.

Learning, Stephen Farry. Today he delivered a statement to the

:01:27.:01:34.

Assembly that raised questions about the future of St Mary's and

:01:34.:01:37.

Stranmillis teacher training colleges. I outlined my concerns

:01:37.:01:41.

that the system for training teachers in Northern Ireland was not

:01:41.:01:44.

sustainable. To best achieve longer term improvements, it is important

:01:45.:01:48.

that Northern Ireland has a system of teacher education that is both

:01:49.:01:52.

financially stable and is sufficiently flexible to address the

:01:52.:01:56.

needs of an increasingly shared society. Therefore I announce aid

:01:56.:01:59.

two-stage study of the teacher education infrastructure in Northern

:01:59.:02:05.

Ireland. The research completed in stage One Show that's Stranmillis

:02:05.:02:11.

and St Mary's are the only establishments in the UK which

:02:11.:02:20.

receive additional funding. The cost of this in 2011/12 was 2. 16

:02:20.:02:26.

million. In the 2011/12 year the cost of training a teacher in the

:02:26.:02:31.

colleges in Northern Ireland was almost 40% higher than in the

:02:31.:02:34.

comparative English institutions cited in the reports. We are

:02:34.:02:39.

spending more to train the teacher for what can be best described as an

:02:39.:02:43.

uncertain employment market than to train an engineer. Under the current

:02:43.:02:48.

system the cost 23,500 to train a teacher arguably we are training too

:02:48.:02:52.

many and 21,000 to train an engineer and arguably we are training too

:02:52.:02:56.

few. The second stage of the study of the teacher education

:02:56.:02:59.

infrastructure in Northern Ireland will set out options for a more

:02:59.:03:03.

shared and integrated system for the delivery and funding of teacher

:03:03.:03:10.

education. Everything should be on the table. Matters for greater

:03:10.:03:13.

collaboration to be considered could include services, facilities and in

:03:13.:03:16.

particular, joint teaching. Institutionally alternative to the

:03:16.:03:20.

current arrangements may include models such as some or all

:03:20.:03:25.

institutions coming together through some type of confed rated

:03:25.:03:35.

arrangement, through to a fully train training system with one or

:03:35.:03:40.

more campuses. The colleges viable as long as student numbers are

:03:40.:03:45.

maintained? Like other institutions, they require supportive government

:03:45.:03:53.

policy for them to develop so St Mary's and Stranmillis become not

:03:53.:03:56.

viable if the minister makes them unviable. Do you propose to take

:03:56.:04:00.

such action in the face of opposition to it? I thank the member

:04:00.:04:06.

for his questions. I'm not proposing to do anything at this stage. We are

:04:06.:04:12.

undertaking the second stage of this review with the objective of placing

:04:12.:04:20.

the system on a sustainable basis. Minister, the Dell committee visited

:04:21.:04:25.

St Mary's college and were impressed with the vibrancy, commitment and

:04:25.:04:28.

the college was very much at the heart of the community in. Terms of

:04:28.:04:32.

the talk in the Assembly about diversity and ethos and how does the

:04:32.:04:40.

minister square that with, in terms of sustainability and quality? What

:04:40.:04:44.

about diversity? The other thing that came out of the discussion is

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that people were telling us that they are definitely not going away.

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I would pose the question back. We don't have to respect and

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acknowledge diversity through the fragmentation of our teacher

:04:57.:05:02.

education system. We want to promote sharing in both respects, but

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sharing isn't about some hop odge nighed society where we treat

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everyone the same. Under that umbrella we have to respect sharing

:05:15.:05:19.

and with respect training that we embrace that range of diversity.

:05:19.:05:25.

That can't be -- can be done in a range of formats. Tong that is the

:05:25.:05:28.

former school principal, Michelle Marken. Thank you for joining us on

:05:28.:05:33.

the programme. What's your reaction first of all to those figures quoted

:05:33.:05:39.

bit minister about the cost of training teachers here? I'd like to

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unpick those figures a little more. You do know that in the last number

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of years there's been a liberal arts degree put into both Stranmillis and

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St Mary's. Students can graduate and then go on and do a teacher

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qualification. I understand that is where the extra funding comes in to

:05:57.:06:00.

support that liberal arts degree. In the examination that the minister

:06:00.:06:04.

has decided he's going to conduct, the second level examination, I hope

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they will look at where that comes into the equation about cost. I

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would argue there's value for money here. Probably very good value for

:06:12.:06:16.

money in the quality of young teachers who come out of the

:06:16.:06:20.

establishments. The problem that he was highlighting is that we're

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training too many teachers and it costs more to train them than we're

:06:24.:06:27.

training engineers and we need more engineers. This is true. I think

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it's right that there should be an examination of costs. It should be a

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five-institution examination not just focussed on two university

:06:35.:06:40.

colleges. I think we have to argue for well educated young people

:06:40.:06:43.

coming out, but also to keep the costs down. There are more ways than

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one to do that. I would argue that the minister is doing it the right

:06:47.:06:52.

way. He's looking for the best advice and guidance on it. Were you

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surprised to hear that it costs �23 this afternoon,000 to -- �23,500 to

:06:59.:07:04.

train a teacher? No, if you consider the number of contact hours, for

:07:04.:07:09.

example, that a young person has when in university versus contact

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hours when in teacher training, it's vastly increased. You may send your

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young son to university and he may have ten, 12 contact hours a week.

:07:22.:07:26.

But they will have more hands-on experience. What about the

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unsustainable costs of running the two colleges side by side, do you

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accept there's a point there? do. That has to be honestly

:07:32.:07:40.

examined. I know that St Mary's University values highly what it

:07:40.:07:43.

delivers to young people and to students. I think maybe that can be

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replicated, perhaps there is a way forward where there is shared

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education on one side, where there's a guaranteed, you know, support of

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teaching, training teachers for Catholic schools. Final thought on

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this apparent parting of the ways with England on A-levels. Should we

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be concerned about that? I think we have to keep a cool head. I think

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the minister actually is keeping a cool head. Parity is what we always

:08:09.:08:14.

aimed for. When we put in GCSEs and A-levels in the 1980s, we worked

:08:14.:08:17.

closely with the universities. We worked closely with our colleagues

:08:17.:08:23.

in England to do that. We made sure that we moderated across the system.

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If we lose that status, I'm not sure how we will ensure standards are

:08:28.:08:32.

there. We'll have to do. It south of Ireland does it. Scotland does it.

:08:32.:08:37.

We can do it too. I don't think we should panic on it. Thank you.

:08:37.:08:41.

From university level to primary schools and John O'Dowd was next in

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the spotlight, following technical details encountered by schools last

:08:45.:08:49.

Autumn, the Education Minister commissioned a review of

:08:49.:08:53.

computer-base add associatements. Today he brought that review to the

:08:53.:08:57.

Assembly -- computer-based assessments. It presented

:08:58.:09:00.

significant challenges. These challenges were faced by schools and

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significant number of them reported difficulties in the operations of

:09:04.:09:08.

the new assessment. If the department makes it a legal

:09:08.:09:12.

requirement for schools to use the assessment this places a requirement

:09:12.:09:16.

on my department to ensure it works. Clearly, this was not always the

:09:16.:09:21.

case last year. A policy that was intended to help and support

:09:21.:09:26.

teachers had, in many cases, the opposite effect. Of most concern

:09:26.:09:30.

were the experiences relayed to me directly by teachers about the

:09:30.:09:35.

pressures they felt in administering the assessments and in some cases

:09:35.:09:38.

the distress felt by pupils when they faced technical difficulties.

:09:38.:09:44.

This is clearly not good enough. That is why I have instigated

:09:44.:09:54.

reviews of the implementations of the nukeracy -- implementations of

:09:54.:09:57.

the numeracy and literacy assessment. User experience was

:09:58.:10:01.

often reported as poor and there were real issues for teachers in

:10:01.:10:05.

terms of the ease of set up and compatibility with hardware. In

:10:05.:10:08.

recognition of the concerns expressed by schools, I have decided

:10:08.:10:14.

the department will not specify the literacy and numeracy assessment for

:10:14.:10:18.

monitoring use in the forth coming term. There will be no legislative

:10:18.:10:24.

requirement on schools to assess pupils for diagnostic purposes using

:10:24.:10:28.

CBA or other assessments. I think the most striking aspect of this

:10:28.:10:34.

debacle isn't just the technical failures or the �900,000 spent in

:10:34.:10:38.

the first year of public money. It wasn't just the time and energy

:10:38.:10:42.

schools have wasted in trying to make these tests work. It isn't even

:10:42.:10:45.

the stress and anxiety these tests have caused many of our primary

:10:45.:10:52.

schools. I suggest that the key to the mystery is that the department

:10:52.:10:59.

and the minister's abject failure in listening to schools and we could

:10:59.:11:06.

say- so what? However we are in a very serious situation. Will the

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minister, today, give this house an explanation as to why it took him so

:11:12.:11:19.

long to press the delete button on computer-based assessment?

:11:19.:11:22.

member has said the department failed to listen to schools. That's

:11:22.:11:27.

partially true. But it's partially true across a number of delivery

:11:27.:11:32.

agencies within this and as minister in charge of the department I have

:11:32.:11:36.

to take a certain amount of responsibility for that. But I can

:11:36.:11:41.

assure you now that no-one was in -- within my department, no-one in the

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delivery agencies involved in this are under illusions about who they

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should be listening to. They should listen to the schools and learn from

:11:50.:11:54.

the experiences. The next programme of work rolled out in regards to

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this will be based on the experiences of schools in the first

:11:57.:12:05.

place. I welcome the U-turn on mandatory computer assessments.

:12:05.:12:14.

Account minister tell us how much this debacle has cost and will cost?

:12:14.:12:19.

The system set up including procurement and all the issues, to

:12:19.:12:24.

set it up was around �900,000. Next year the costs are somewhere in the

:12:24.:12:28.

region of �300,000 to run the system. I would have preferred to

:12:28.:12:34.

see the system running properly all, all schools using it etc. However we

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are involved in contractual obligations with the providers. If

:12:39.:12:43.

we moved away from those obligation as head of the end of the contract,

:12:43.:12:46.

I am advised there may be significant further cost.

:12:46.:12:52.

Education was very much a theme at Stormont today. The leader of the

:12:52.:12:56.

Ulster Unionist Party, Mike Nesbitt, joined in. During a debate on a

:12:56.:13:01.

shared future he read extracts on a teaching aid used to teach students

:13:01.:13:07.

during the hunger strikes in 1981. Discuss how the pupils would have

:13:07.:13:12.

felt in their shoes. Discuss whether they would have made the same

:13:12.:13:17.

decisions as the hunger strikers. Teachers could explore texts about

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Northern Ireland or about other situations, for example, Nazi

:13:24.:13:28.

Germany, South Africa, during apartheid, a clear link between

:13:28.:13:34.

Northern Ireland and Nazi Germany and South Africa under apartheid.

:13:34.:13:38.

Explore other sources, cow read of the factual writings from the time

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of the hunger strikes. Now I thought maybe at this point they would

:13:42.:13:50.

suggest a journalist of some repute, or perhaps an historian of the

:13:50.:14:00.
:14:00.:14:01.

stature of Paul Lord Bute. The first individual they recommend? For

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factual descriptions, Danny Morrison, the chief prop beganedist

:14:08.:14:14.

of the -- propegand ist of the Republican movement. Mike Nesbitt

:14:14.:14:18.

during the debate on the Shared Future document. Following that

:14:18.:14:22.

debate a DUP supported amendment to the Alliance Motion was passed. It

:14:22.:14:26.

backed the station by the first and deputy first ministers on building a

:14:26.:14:29.

united community in Northern Ireland. Here's a sample of the

:14:29.:14:34.

debate. Despite reports of progress and some level of agreement from the

:14:34.:14:39.

office of First Minister and deputy First Minister, a failure to find

:14:39.:14:44.

compromise on contested issues at a political level has left many

:14:44.:14:47.

disillusioned and disengaged. We have to set out a vision and a plan

:14:47.:14:54.

to tackle all unsettled issues that remain. Patterns of segregation,

:14:54.:14:56.

intimidation and fear that all continue to have a serious impact on

:14:56.:15:01.

our economy and the quality of life of people across Northern Ireland.

:15:01.:15:05.

Perhaps I could begin by explaining why we're unable to support the

:15:05.:15:09.

motion, as brought forward by the members of the Alliance Party. It's

:15:09.:15:15.

very simple. There is no mention in the motion of the lack of prior

:15:15.:15:21.

consultation between FM and DFM and their executive colleagues, which, I

:15:21.:15:26.

find, almost inexplicable given a few short days ago their party

:15:26.:15:34.

leader was jumping on my colleague Danny Kennedy's band wagon on BBC

:15:34.:15:38.

television to make much of the fact there had been no consultation with

:15:38.:15:42.

executive colleagues. Yet a few days later, they seemed to have moved

:15:42.:15:52.

from the tribe of -- tribe to the so whatters. We will never shirk our

:15:52.:15:55.

responsibilities in terms of scrutinising projects like this and

:15:55.:15:58.

asking what sometimes might be viewed as tough questions. But

:15:58.:16:02.

they're asked to try and ensure that we get the best possible Government

:16:02.:16:08.

and the best possible chance to build a Shared Future for all our

:16:08.:16:17.

people because God knows we need it. It is unfortunate, Mr Speaker, that

:16:17.:16:27.
:16:27.:16:29.

the hi -- hysterics soured the tone over the Shared Future document. It

:16:29.:16:35.

did confirm one thing: Peter Robinson seems to be stuck in an old

:16:35.:16:39.

testament world when people out there are desperately crying out for

:16:39.:16:45.

something new. I hear the party basically saying- we weren't

:16:45.:16:50.

included in the discussions. I heard them saying this announcement was

:16:50.:16:52.

made without consultation with themselves or consultation with

:16:52.:16:57.

anybody else. Well, that party has had a week to be able to say

:16:57.:17:02.

actually, we don't like the Shared Future details because it doesn't go

:17:02.:17:07.

far enough or whatever the criticism might be. Maybe some of the

:17:07.:17:10.

criticism is justified. They need to put options on the table. It's not

:17:10.:17:14.

enough, I want to make it clear from our party's point of view, it is

:17:14.:17:22.

simply not good enough for the SDLp to come here and say they're here to

:17:22.:17:26.

ask tough questions. We're all here to ask tough questions. What a

:17:26.:17:33.

remarkable impact a pending visit of President Obama can have that

:17:33.:17:39.

suddenly, whatever it takes to please in terms of social

:17:40.:17:46.

engineering is possible. Be it housing, be it education, be

:17:46.:17:53.

whatever is on the shopping list and the instruction list of the visiting

:17:53.:17:58.

president. Can I begin by welcoming the statement last week and it's not

:17:58.:18:03.

surprising that all of the naysayers have had their go around so just to

:18:03.:18:09.

put Mr Swan's mind at rest from the very start, we will not be with

:18:09.:18:15.

drawing our amendment and we will be putting it to the vote. Just let

:18:15.:18:21.

me... Just let me be clear about that so that you know right from the

:18:21.:18:28.

very start, and I see the chair of the OFM doing his usual act, one or

:18:28.:18:34.

two headline grabbing things, producing some document today, but

:18:34.:18:39.

that's typical of the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party. So nobody

:18:39.:18:44.

will be surprised about that. Spratt. The Justice Minister has

:18:44.:18:48.

told the Assembly he expects work on the long awaited police and fire

:18:48.:18:55.

college near cooks down to start in October. -- Cookstown. He revealed

:18:55.:19:00.

details for the G8 summit and the future for the historical inquiries

:19:00.:19:05.

team. Comments were provided back to the

:19:05.:19:08.

programme team for its consideration. If these points are

:19:08.:19:14.

adequately addressed and both departments are satisfied that the

:19:14.:19:20.

college represents value for money it will be submitted for approval.

:19:20.:19:24.

The reality is we are looking at a relatively short slippage in the

:19:25.:19:28.

time to complete the work. The delay is currently being looked at in a

:19:28.:19:31.

period of something like four months with an expectation that

:19:31.:19:35.

construction can begin by the month of October. So given the very

:19:35.:19:38.

significant cost change, I believe that's hay fairly reasonable

:19:38.:19:45.

position to be in and I'm optimistic that can be adhered to. PSNI and

:19:45.:19:53.

plans for security for the G8 are at an advanced state. It has been

:19:53.:20:01.

decided that some 4700 PSNI officer and 3600 officers under mutual aid

:20:01.:20:04.

arrangements will be deployed. All the officers will be under the

:20:04.:20:07.

direction and operational command of the Chief Constable throughout in.

:20:07.:20:12.

Addition, 600 private security personnel will be contracted to work

:20:12.:20:16.

on security-related duties during the summit. I'm confident there will

:20:16.:20:20.

be sufficient human resources in place to ensure a successful summit

:20:20.:20:24.

and any protests would be well policed. Other areas within my

:20:24.:20:32.

department are developing plans to deal with any arrests. In the -- I'm

:20:32.:20:37.

confident there will be sufficient human resources in place to deal

:20:37.:20:43.

with any evengeuality. Can I ask the minister what assurances can he give

:20:43.:20:51.

to former members of the royal Royal Ulster Constabulary who hold a

:20:51.:21:01.
:21:01.:21:10.

except -- sceptical view over all of this happening. If former members of

:21:10.:21:16.

the RUC or PSNI hold that view of the HET I'm not sure that anything I

:21:16.:21:19.

say will counteract that feeling that they have. Certainly what I

:21:19.:21:22.

have seen of the HET in particular in terms of looking through the

:21:22.:21:26.

business case for the extension of its work has shown that it is

:21:26.:21:30.

robustly carrying out its duties. Wonder if the minister would take

:21:31.:21:36.

the opportunity to assure the House that the HET has the necessary

:21:36.:21:41.

funding to be able to complete its programmed work and that its

:21:41.:21:45.

operational independence will not be jeopardised in any way by means of

:21:45.:21:52.

the way it is funded? I thank him for that point. The business case

:21:52.:21:57.

for the extension of HET funding was approved by my department last

:21:57.:22:04.

month, subject to further conditions being met. That will then result in

:22:04.:22:08.

a potential extension of �13 million to its existing budget aloe

:22:08.:22:13.

indication. The secondary -- allegation. The secondary intention

:22:13.:22:21.

is that the case load will be completed bit end of March 2015 on a

:22:21.:22:26.

completion rate of 30 cases per month. David Ford. It's been some

:22:26.:22:29.

time coming but the Marine Bill passed through its final stage at

:22:29.:22:32.

the Assembly today. The bill is designed to coordinate the

:22:32.:22:37.

protection of Northern Ireland's coastline and the wildlife that

:22:37.:22:41.

lives there. Is that enough? I'm joined by Marguerite Tarzia from the

:22:41.:22:46.

Marine Task Force. Good evening. First of all, remind us what the

:22:46.:22:51.

Marine Task Force is. It's a coalition of ten environmental

:22:51.:22:54.

organisations and we've been campaigning on marine issues for

:22:54.:22:59.

quite a while. It's a ten-year campaign, specifically related to

:22:59.:23:03.

mat reen bill. We are very -- the Marine Bill. We are very pleased to

:23:04.:23:08.

see it here again. The legislation go far enough? There are some

:23:08.:23:12.

disappointments with it. Before we go through the disappointing sides I

:23:12.:23:15.

think the Marine Task Force is thrilled that we have this

:23:15.:23:19.

legislation in place because it is a new legal framework for managing our

:23:20.:23:23.

seas, for conservation and marine planning. In terms of the things

:23:23.:23:27.

that we would like to have seen in it, there are some things that we

:23:27.:23:36.

think are missing, moat -- most note yaebl a marine organisation, and we

:23:36.:23:40.

campaigned that it would help the governance for marine matters in

:23:40.:23:43.

Northern Ireland. The matters are distributed across five departments

:23:43.:23:46.

in Northern Ireland. That's a lot of departments to make coordinated

:23:46.:23:50.

decisions on marine issues. So we think that a marine management

:23:50.:23:54.

organisation would really help. campaigned strongly for the agency,

:23:54.:23:58.

it's not there. You say you're disappointed. Is that going to make

:23:58.:24:01.

a huge difference? You've said that's the downside, there are plus

:24:01.:24:07.

points as well. Are the plus points outweighed bit negative dimension of

:24:07.:24:10.

net getting the management agency? think that's going to be an issue

:24:11.:24:14.

which will be ongoing. Obviously with the Marine Bill, now it's

:24:14.:24:18.

becoming an act, there are going to be important decisions to be made in

:24:18.:24:24.

terms of the marine kon conservation zones and mat reen planning, which

:24:24.:24:31.

is cross sectors. Will need a lot of buy-in from people. I think issues

:24:31.:24:34.

will arise throughout the implementation of this bill that

:24:34.:24:41.

will make it evident that marine governance needs to be resolved.

:24:41.:24:45.

an example of what will be better with the new legislation. It gives

:24:45.:24:50.

us the opportunity to designation marine kon conservation zones. Up

:24:50.:24:55.

till now we only have European marine sites and areas of special

:24:55.:25:00.

scientific interest. Also sites designated for wetlands. We haven't

:25:01.:25:05.

got that many protected areas, even though the European sites are

:25:05.:25:11.

important. The conservation zones will let us designate sites for

:25:11.:25:14.

protection for a range of different species that are representative of

:25:14.:25:18.

the UK marine area. That's good for the species that live in our coastal

:25:18.:25:23.

waters? Yes, very good for the species. We can cover more species,

:25:23.:25:28.

more habitats and protect more. Marguerite Tarzia, thanks very much

:25:28.:25:32.

indeed for joining us. Now, into the West was very much the

:25:32.:25:35.

theme for questions to the Regional Development Minister this afternoon

:25:35.:25:40.

with the A 5 and roads even a possible railway line in Fermanagh

:25:40.:25:45.

on the agenda. First up was the troubled bridge at Narrow Water.

:25:45.:25:50.

There's been no delay in the part of my department. Every effort has been

:25:50.:25:57.

made to progress these necessary orders. Understand of -- information

:25:57.:26:02.

was only finalised on April 10, 2013. I should say that in Northern

:26:02.:26:12.
:26:12.:26:12.

Ireland the construction of a bridge over waters quite rightly requires

:26:12.:26:18.

legislation. Loudge County Council only requires consent of the

:26:18.:26:28.
:26:28.:26:32.

minister. We met the QPA yesterday in relation to the delay in the A5

:26:32.:26:35.

and they're concerned about the delay. They're concerned about the

:26:35.:26:41.

moratorium on the roads, which is 11 days, I think it's ten or 11 days

:26:41.:26:47.

prior to the G8. A decision that the previous Minister of Justice told us

:26:48.:26:55.

half an hour ago that you took. the issue that he raises on G8

:26:55.:27:01.

moratorium, he will know, as a constituency representative for the

:27:01.:27:06.

area of countery Fermanagh and indeed as a member of this House and

:27:06.:27:11.

deputy chair of the regional development committee, that G8 is a

:27:11.:27:16.

very significant and important event for all of Northern Ireland and I'm

:27:16.:27:21.

very pleased to offer my department's support to the PSNI in

:27:21.:27:26.

managing arrangements for the summit. So at the request of the

:27:26.:27:35.

PSNI, DRD has agreed to reprogramme planned works on key routes during

:27:35.:27:39.

the G8. The department has brought forward a considerable amount of

:27:39.:27:45.

resurfacing work to improve the road network in the run up to the G8. My

:27:45.:27:49.

colleague Mr Elliott was telling me some of the locals in Fermanagh

:27:49.:27:57.

instead of calling it the A 4 road now call it the G8 road. Is there

:27:57.:28:02.

any further evaluation or assessment into developing a rail network into

:28:02.:28:07.

the west of Northern Ireland? grateful to the member for his

:28:07.:28:13.

question and indeed, he will know that we have recently been holding a

:28:13.:28:16.

consultation exercise on the future of railways all over Northern

:28:16.:28:23.

Ireland. We've had very interesting feed back. Even in my own area,

:28:23.:28:28.

significant feed back on the possibility of a reopening the old

:28:28.:28:38.
:28:38.:28:38.

lines. Indeed, the line that he mentions mentioned, there are issues

:28:38.:28:43.

of infrastructure and cost. We would have to look carefully before we

:28:43.:28:49.

would embark on even a serious study. The Regional Development

:28:50.:28:53.

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