21/11/2016 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today, and it wasn't the best

of days for the Speaker, Robin Newton, who had to come

to the House to apologise to Members for not declaring his links

to Charter NI, when ruling against an urgent debate

Yet again proceedings in the chamber were dominated by debate over

The man at the top table in the Assembly admits he got it

wrong over the loyalist organisation Charter NI.

hindsight, I accept it would have been better if I followed my initial

ease instincts. I apologise unreservedly to the house for not

having done so. Meantime, the Executive Office

continues to be asked We could talk about this, and the

basis on which he was employed by Charter NI is really a matter for

Charter NI. It has absolutely nothing to do with this executive.

And joining me with his thoughts on today's developments

is our Political Correspondent, Stephen Walker.

The Speaker, Robin Newton, was the man saying sorry

Mr Newton told the Assembly he was wrong not to reveal his links

to Charter NI when ruling against an urgent debate

The Speaker now accepts he should have delegated the matter to one

In relation to Charter NI, to make it clear that, while I have offered

advice, I do not hold and have never held a position as adviser to

Charter NI. My involvement with Charter NI has an organisation,

working on the ground in my constituency, has been no different

than it would be with any organisation in my constituency

seeking advice from their elected representative. When a first urgent

oral question was received in relation to Charter NI, on the 24th

of October, 2016, I gave consideration to whether I should

take the decision. Given the time pressure, I proceeded to take the

decision, but in doing so, I made it clear to my office that in future,

if future decisions were required, it would be prudent for me to

delegate to avoid any perception of conflict. As a consequence of that,

when a second urgent question was tabled on the 8th of November, the

decision was delegated to the principal deputies to you in line

with the instruction given to my office on the 24th of October. The

principal Deputy Speaker of the Commons to two procedural advice and

made a decision on the basis of it. In hindsight, I accept it would have

been better if I had followed my initial instincts and those who

delegated the first question. I apologise unreservedly to the house

for not having done so. Members can be assured that I will burn on the

side of in the future. -- err on the side of caution.

The Social Investment Fund dominated much of today's proceedings.

In response to an urgent oral question from the SDLP asking

what audits had been carried out on the fund, the Deputy First

Minister said organisations which have benefited from the fund

have been subjected to the full checking

This includes, firstly, a review of the organisational structure to

ensure that a board and appropriate management structures are in place,

and secondly, a review of the financial and governance processes

to ensure the necessary policies and processes to manage and account for

funding are in place and implemented effectively.

Is the completely satisfied that no conflict of event as exists within

Charter NI, or any other organisation funded by the Social

Investment Fund cache macro is he completely satisfied.

Given the community prioritising projects to avoid certain needs, a

project to manage any conflict of interest was put in place. Group

members were required to declare conflict-of-interest went potential

projects were being proposed. And when a conflict was found, the group

member was not permitted to be involved in any discussion or

decision around the proposal. Can he explain precisely what added

value for the management fee the Charter NI are paid, what this

smaller and less experienced organisation are actually bringing

to the project? They're actually hasn't been an

allegation from anybody, even in the opposition, that ?1 of the ?1.7

million was misappropriated in any way. There has not been an

allegation whatsoever, and indeed, from our perspective as we go

forward, we will go forward on the basis that, if there are specific

allegations, if there are specific allegations to be made, people

should make the allegation, and we can then have them investigated. And

if they're then needs to be a police investigation, we can... Well, it is

exactly what you asked. Can I ask the member not to

intervene from a sedentary position? This debate and controversy has been

sparked by the case of Mr Dees stared, and the question of whether

he was an appropriate person to be employed at public expense by

Charter NI, despite his alleged paramilitary role. As another case

that he was employed not because of his -- not in spite of his

paramilitary role but because of it, and this reflects British government

policy, effectively endorsed by the executive, which involves paying

ministers to buy off paramilitary schema can I remind the member

questions need to be brief. I don't set that argument at all. --

I don't accent. There are many projects to the north, and I would

challenge anybody, and I remember at the time, there was some controversy

around this issue, somebody saw a headline in the Irish News that this

was a slush fund for paramilitaries. Well, where are all these

paramilitaries? We can talk about him and the basis on which he was

employed by Charter NI, which is really a matter for Charter NI. It

has nothing to do with this executive with the British

government. Can the Deputy First Minister

confirmed that, in relation to the structures and the processes of the

Social Investment Fund, that these were cleared and went through a full

business case process, they were cleared by the accounting officer of

the department, cleared independently from the Department by

the Department for finance and personnel, and they were

periodically reviewed throughout the process of policy development by the

public sector exam Clyde Gateway process?

I absolutely agree with the member. What's more, all of this was

well-known within this Assembly. Martin McGuinness happy to agree

with that point from the DUP's Emma Little Pengelly - and Stephen

Walker is with me now. Once again the Social Investment

Fund is the issue that It is a story that won't go away, a

story that has been in the headlines for weeks now. It is a story that

broadcasters have been talking about, newspaper journalist have

been talking about, and I think when you look at the timeline of this

story, you get an understanding of how detailed it has been. The story

was on BBC Spotlight, then that was the Guardian interview, then the

story in the Belfast Telegraph, when it was thought he was about to

resign, and we have had various stories in the days afterwards. So

it is the story that won't go away, and as we have just heard, dominated

proceedings today. The problem for the Executive

is that as long as this story continues, it will overshadow

the other work of the Yes, I mean, that is the point that

the executive mate. Arlene Foster has used this phrase that she finds

the story a distraction. She says it is important to see this in context.

She says what about ?1.7 million, a whole fond of 18 million. She says

there is a lot of good work being done. I suppose it is worth

reminding viewers that Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness are agreed on

the sense that you have to see this in context, but they on what to do,

because at Martin McGuinness thinks that he needs to reconsider his

position, Arlene Foster says that as an employability matter, and really,

she can't intervene when it comes to judge an eye. -- when it comes to

rrChartern. And it was certainly a day to forget

for the Speaker, Robin Newton. He said he should have been aware of

his arrangement with Charter NI. This wasn't an official arrangement.

He was basically saying that as an MLA, he advises democratic. He said

he should have delegated that issue when it came up for review. There is

an old adage in politics, that when you are explaining, you are losing

the argument. He had to come to the chamber today to explain. It will be

a day I suspect he will want to forget.

And briefly, do you think he can now draw a line and put this behind him?

He obviously wants to draw a line under it. But I think if there is

another episode, people will be asking questions about him. It was

clear today the opposition accepted his apology, but I think if there is

another episode, further questions will clearly be asked.

Thank you very much. We will hear more from you later on.

It was the Deputy First Minister's turn to represent the Executive

Office during Question Time today - and not surprisingly

the Social Investment Fund was raised, but so too was another

What engagement has taken place with the Irish government, particularly

to identify issues of mutual interest, and also to exert joint

influence on the British government and the EU?

Well, as I said earlier, there is ongoing engagement between officials

up to the head of the civil servants level, and specifically, we are

engaging with various governments through the North - South

ministerial Consul and the respective administrations. We will

be carrying out an audit of border issues. This was discussed at the

meeting last Friday. We will also engage further in Brexit via the

British- Irish consul. Can the Deputy First Minister

explain whether it is his assessment of the approaches have a different

devolve that ministrations in Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh?

We are all very conscious of the responsibility they devolved

Administration is out of the people that they represent. In Wales, the

people of Wales voted to leave. In Scotland, the people of Scotland

voted to Remain. People here voted to remain, and of course, people in

England voted to leave also. So that does leave us with a very

challenging situation to deal with, and no doubt, in the reports that

are coming out of London almost on a daily basis about the appeared in

ability thus far of the British government to have a collective view

as to how to approach these negotiations, is also exercised in

the devolved institutions. Both the Deputy First Minister and I

agree on the need for special status of Northern Ireland. But would he

also recognise that, if this is to get traction with the whole

community, including with Unionists, that this has to be sold in very

pragmatic terms, about the interest of Northern Ireland, and therefore

be decoupled from wider constitutional aspirations and?

Asfar as I'm concerned, everything is on the table. Nobody can put

their hand on their heart and say that we have this negotiations going

to work itself out, or where we will find ourselves, in a year or two

year's time. If it is a hard Brexit, I think it will have very dramatic

repercussions for devolved institutions, particularly for

ourselves, who are in this unique position of having a land border

with a country that is in Europe. So I think in the time ahead, in the

discussions that we will see happen between our officials, but also

between the First Minister, myself and the Taoiseach, the best way

forward for us is to work very closely together, so that we can

reach an outcome which can then be put to both the British government

and the European Union as the combined wisdom of both governments,

north and south. Would he accept that this process

has been flawed, there is lack of accountability of the

decision-making that went along with it? I would not accept it was flawed

at all. Practically every party in this Assembly have been involved in

the process from the very beginning. It was interesting, even though

people have now seized on what is a very sad situation in relation to

East Belfast, they have seized on it in an effort to criticise the

overall programme. Whenever the junior minister or first blister

went to Eniskillen last week for the opening of a ?900,000 investment

from the SIF fund that UUP and SDLP were tripping over themselves to get

photographs. The Deputy First Minister unable

to resist that pop at the two And the Economy Minister also faced

Question Time today. Simon Hamilton was asked

about the important issue The Minister revealed

Northern Ireland is on track to meet its renewable energy targets

and that he supports The second North-South

interconnector is to be considered in February next year and this

prospect such as for a gas fired power station, battery storage,

compressed air storage, have the potential to contribute to our

future security of supply. Supplementary. I thank the Minister

for his answer. The Minister will be where that the UUP will be putting a

motion on energy to the Assembly tomorrow, will he take the

opportunity to indicate tomorrow what is Plan B is if there is

further delay in the north - south interconnector? I look forward to

not least having to provide the entire House with the opportunity,

and I hope the defeat is brought forward an effort as I will respond

in kind. This is a challenging issue. I know that the committee

will have got a clear indication of the seriousness of this issue and

the challenges it faces. If the motion is brought to the House

tomorrow in that spirit I will respond in kind. The member is

fairly new to the Ulster Unionist Party but he'll really has that

fatalistic tendency which runs through the Ulster Unionist Party

like a stick of rock, he has already written off the interconnector

before it has gone to the planning appeals committee. The member is

right. It is an incredibly complex issue. I wanted to run through this

planning process properly. In terms of the principle of the

interconnector to something that I am committed to. But essential not

just terms of security of supply in the long term but also any

integrated electricity market viable. What does the Minister

intends to do to promote future development of renewables in

Northern Ireland stop there is already considerable support for

renewable electricity. It will remain in place until 2037. It has

been a successful project in this respect, in terms of increasing

renewables generated electricity. In 2005 electricity consumption from

renewable sources was 3% in Northern Ireland, but has now grown to 25.4%

at the end of last year. We are well on course to meet our electricity

consumption by 2020. There is already a considerable amount of

renewables on the growth and some more to receive offers and I believe

not only will be meet the 40% target but all of those offers when they

are met able to generate 100% of peak demand from renewable sources.

Simon Hamilton, clearly optimistic that those renewable

It's emerged that an immediate review of vulnerable inmates

with mental health issues is to be carried out.

The Justice Minister made the announcement following recent

deaths in Maghaberry Prison and a high-profile case

Since November 2015 there have been five deaths in custody in Northern

Ireland, four relating to mental health issue. In November the prison

population totals 1533. Of these 417 were recorded as having a mental

health awareness and a further 740 prisoners recorded as having an

addiction. This amounts to over 75% of the prison population. However

read poetry at the custody environment is not designed to help

those with chronic mental health issues, whatever tuning provide to

star in prison officers, identifying and supporting prisoners of mental

health issues as a high priority for the prison service but not every

episode of self harm can be prevented. Tragically some suicides

will happen despite the best episodes bat the best efforts of

staff. I believe there will be positive benefits. It will help with

sickness absence rates and hopefully that will enable us to have our full

quantity of prison officers soon that we can better deal with

prisoners. Prison staff and senior staff stood by for over half an hour

and watch while our man slashed himself and blinded himself

manually. Is the Minister satisfied that the demo comes out of this

review that prison staff will be encouraged to take the initiative

and take responsibility when required and stop this sort of thing

if it is being observed, rather than wait for somebody to give them

guidance? I would certainly hope that it ever does come out of this

review that they can provide more of an immediate response so that they

do not have incidents happening like the member describes. But this has

to be a holistic approach. Giving officers the right training and

skills in terms of how they can deal with the immediate environment and

also looking at their health care site to ensure we do not get to that

point. The assessment is prisoners are coming and protect only into

Maghaberry, is it effective enough, but also in terms of resource and

use of resource, the present resource review team said resources

could be brought into place. I have stated before that this proposal has

been at best ignored but the degree of resistance and around it. With

the Minister revisit that and perhaps that would allow some

resource. Any approach taking forward we have to have more focus

on us now that present with mental health problems. 75% is not an

insignificant number. It is something we need to take seriously.

I would hope that review will take into account how to move forward. I

am keen to look to see what we need to put in place to ensure that this

is not as much of a problem in the future.

Claire Sugden on her continuing challenge of dealing with prisoners

Charter NI and Dee Stitt may have temporarily replaced Brexit

as Stormont's current buzzwords, but it's hard to keep a good

Brexit will, of course, have a huge impact on our

agricultural industries and it was a motion raising that

concern which the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP

I hope I'm whom probably hear more from the Minister that at this point

in time lots are being given at executive level at consultative

committee for development of strategy. A strategy which does not

leave as in the situation where farmers and food sector in the

situation that come 2020 financially and otherwise falling off the edge

of Hartcliffe. That has to be avoided at all costs, irrespective

of what people's views are in relation to Brexit or not to Brexit,

we must at all avoid that situation. Farmer after farmer was saying we

want to get out of Europe. Why did they want to get out of Europe?

Because over the period of 45 years that they were in Europe they had

managed to invent something that 2800 different regulations affecting

farming. That is one for every week we were in Europe. They were

regulated to death. Farmers could not get on the work they had to do.

Our farmers depend on payments received such amounts to 265 million

per year in basic payments. The single farm payment and other

payments ensure farmers have the means to survive and without these

farming incomes would have been negative last year and in four of

the last five years. Last year the UK received 3 billion of support,

almost 10% into Northern Ireland, therein lies the danger however or

of Northern Ireland were only to receive a proportion of future

funding through the Barnett Formula we would only be looking at

receiving approximately one third of what we receive is present. We have

the much trumpeted guarantee of EU funding or the equivalent of EU

funding until 2020 which given it is going to take until 2019 at the

earliest for the UK to leave the EU is not much of a guarantee of any

long-term basis. All the evidence is that the UK Government is likely to

seek to reduce the amount of funding provides pervasive agriculture so we

have the likelihood that after 2020 we will be receiving something less

than 10% of something less than ?350 billion. These uncharted waters

provides a living and opportunities not only for as in this House but

also for our farmers. I and the wider executive will be a strong

voice and I am committed to engaging with those who are in a position to

make decisions which will benefit the sector moving forward. I want to

ensure a debate about the future free Mac moving forward and not one

dominated by funding the focus of what that funding might be used for.

The advantage of leaving EU is a beacon design our policies which

give as scope to remove the unnecessary bureaucracy associated

with the current arrangements. The second big piece of joint

Opposition business today As is now their way,

the SDLP and Ulster Unionists came together to raise the issue,

and to criticise the Education The draft strategic area plan as put

forward by the Minister of education is flawed. First of all matters

concerning that is based on the scene sustainable schools policy

which underpins the previous area plan which was called into serious

disrepute by the Public Accounts Committee only a few months ago.

Removal schools play a key role in communities particularly where small

isolated communities live alongside one another. Such schools are often

the local point for communities and their proposed closure causes

concern among the people who live there. Moving the school out of the

village will leave a big hole in community. I have and continued to

fight for services to be located in rural areas. The sustainability of

communities. I have questioned ministers. However I cannot support

the ongoing provision of a school in a little area does not meeting the

educational needs of our children. It is with regret we have to bring

this motion today. I would have hoped the value of the rule schools

to the many communities would have been self evident but what is clear

from the proposals put forward is that visual schools are being

targeted by stealth. In an area as small as the north we need to make

decisions based on a vision of the entire north and the interest of our

young people and the quality of education they receive. Any such

vision must also have input from pupils, parents, teachers and

principals, as well as what has been suggested in the document, the

managing authorities and sectoral support bodies. They want to have

separate legislative protection for visual schools but this is deemed

necessary to provide protection what is the level of protection for

schools that fall outside of those areas. If you are a pupil in

Belfast, in Londonderry, in Portadown, Ballymena? The Ulster

Unionist Party the SDLP are happy to simply abandon you.

Peter Weir - and Stephen Walker has rejoined me for a final word.

Today was another Opposition day today where the SDLP and the UUP

We are getting to see the SDLP and the Australian in a working

together. What happens behind the scenes as the SDLP and the Ulster

Unionists get together and decide what subjects they are good to talk

about, what speakers are going to talk, what time they want to spend

on certain subjects. We saw today the subjects that they chose, The

Beatles farming, they chose poverty, deprivation, and the issue of rural

schools, and emotive subject. They chose subjects that they felt chimed

with the electorate saw behind the scenes there is a lot of

organisation going on between the SDLP and the Ulster Unionist Party

we are going to see more of it. And finally Stephen,

we had the spectacle of a rather unusual event in a Stormont

corridor today. Yes. I am going to try to avoid too

many pounds because a lot of pans were used. This was the spend a

penny campaign to twin the toilets and storm of the pilots in Uganda,

it is about raising the issue of clean drinking water and sanitation

and the campaign was spearheaded by clear Hana of the SDLP and we can

listen now to what she had to say at the launch today. One third of the

world's publisher does not have access to good sanitation, yesterday

was world toilet Day so we thought it was the opportunity to remind

people when they are spending a penny of that need that is out there

and international developments. There are light-hearted wheeze to

raise this. Thank you for coming. The toilets twinning organisation.

Basically saying this is a serious issue. There was a good turnout. The

Speaker was there as well. That's it for now, but there'll be

more of the same tomorrow night - Until then, from everyone

in the team, goodnight.