23/01/2012 Stormont Today

Hello, and welcome to Stormont Today. As the Department of Health

confirms, another baby is being treated for what appears to be

pseudamonis in Wales. We have identified what are a number of

potential problems and will be getting a report back tomorrow in

terms of the potential for it to come from a water source water.

That has been the case elsewhere. It used to lead to catcalls if from

Unionists. Now it just makes them laugh. What's so funny? It is the

right of any nation to have a mechanism in place to decide their

future, and can he assure me that we're still in line for a united

Ireland in 2016? LAUGHTER

With me throughout, Oliver Wilkinson from the great Healing

Through Remembering. Now, the past is a topic that comes

up time and again here on the Hill. Oliver Wilkinson is from the

organisation Healing Through Remembering. Tell us what you do.

We're a voluntary organisation, been in existence about ten years,

put simply, our purpose is to discuss and debate issues of how to

deal with our past. Is it more than a talking shop? What are you hoping

to achieve? Well, we want more and more people to do the kinds of

things that the members of our organisation are doing, which is to

have very difficult conversations about contentious issues that

haven't been discussed in the past in the hope that over time we can

ensure that we learn from our past. We can assist and support our

elected politicians in determining what's best for our future, and for

our children or our grandchildren we can have a much more peaceful

outcome. What do you think you have achieved in the ten years you have

been in existence? Perhaps the most important thing is we have brought

together approximately a hundred people now who come from very

different backgrounds and who have been able to have the kind of

conversations that simply weren't possible ten years ago. We have

made contacts with our political and community leaders right across

Northern Ireland and further afield. We have both learnt from them and

helped them to see what we're doing they can do in a similar way, and

in that way we can begin a conversation which generates over

time and makes it possible, as I say, for those difficult

conversations that we have avoided and neglected, the Seamus Hainny

business of "Whatever say, say nothing" becomes "whatever you say,

say something." Thank you. If you fancy being the next Police

Ombudsman, sorry, you have missed the deadline. The post was

advertised in December to replace Al Hutchinson. A short list is

being drawn up for intervurs in February. In the interim, there is

an interim ombudsman. Here is highlights from today's questions.

We start with that policing issue. Who was consulted on an issue to

appoint an interim ombudsman? issue of the interim ombudsman

really is the responsibility of the Department of Justice. It's their

responsibility to ensure the continuity of the functions of the

office of Police Ombudsman. On January 17, the outgoing Police

Ombudsman announced his intention to delegate his statutory functions

to appropriate levels within his office pending appointment of a new

Police Ombudsman. He say announced that he did that in an attempt to

wait until the new appointment. This is the third position he's -

his latest position is on the basis of legal advice which he has

received. His legal advice differs from that provided by the Attorney

General to the dodge dodge which we have seen and con-- Department of

Justice which we have seen and confirmed that the office of the

Police Ombudsman can continue to work. It has caused a stir on this

side of the Channel, but what about our own border? I thank the Deputy

First Minister for His very comprehensive reply. Does he agree

with me it is the right of any nation to have a mechanism in place

to decide their future, and can he assure me that we're still in line

for a united Ireland in 2016? LAUGHTER

I mean - LAUGHTER

I have to leave - a supplemented question needs to relate to the

original item. This has taken some eggs...

I suppose a lot of people will be wondering what the member in the

past has done for a united Ireland. Strip searching is under review, as

the Justice Minister revealed. Significant progress has been made

with regard to the implementation of recommendation 8 of the prison

review team. Prison officials conducted a review of both the

capabilityabilities and limitations of full body scanners. This review

is complete. I received a copy last week, and following discussions

with officials, I'll give considerations to the findings of

whether there is any scope for a pilot for alternative search

capabilitys in prison establishments. Thank you very much.

Can I thank the Minister for His answer? Will he give a commitment

if the technology which he is appraising at present takes us to a

full body search - will he implement it? I can certainly

assure the House that if it is possible to find a technology which

provides greater dignity for prisoners and staff whilst

maintaining the absolute security of prison establishments dealing

with the issue of contra band being smuggled in or out, I and the

Prison Service will be willing to move. We have already heard the

Speaker's comments on supplementary questions that grow legs. It seems

it's catching. The Minister will be aware that Colin Duffy was

campaigning on this issue at the weekend. Does the Minister want to

comment on his release from custody? And what is he doing to

reveal how the criminal justice system manage that particular case?

THE SPEAKER: Order. Order. A supplementary question. Our members

have an imaginaryry mind around all of this, and certainly the

supplementary commission has very little to do with the original

question. Can I ask the Justice Minister does that indicate he has

abandoned futile attempts to change the badge, the name and the symbols

of Her Majesty's Prison Service? THE SPEAKER: Order. Order once

again. Once again, the member knows - he knows so well he's totally out

of order. The question raised to the Minister has absolutely nothing

to do with the original question. Let us move on.

Now, the Health Minister has told the Assembly he hopes to update the

House fully on the ongoing investigation into the outbreak of

skeudomonis tomorrow. Three babies have died since the outbreak in

January and another is being treated for the infection.

All necessary precautions are being taken to avoid the spread of

infection. Biodecontamination of the Intensive Care part of the

neonatal unit at the hospital is complete. The affected area in the

hospital will remain closed while a team of specialists continues to

attempt to identify the most likely source of the infection. All other

maternity sources and wards of the Royal Jubilee Hospital are fully

operational and working as normal. Expectant mothers should attend

their appointments as normal. This can be found in natural

environments in food and water. Infections are normally seen in

immunocompromised patients. These outbreaks have occurred throughout

the world as these infections are mainly immunocompromised. The Trust

continues to monitor the situation and a teleconference is in progress

at present. This is an evolving situation. Further updates will be

issued. We have identified a number of potential problems. And we will

be getting a report back tomorrow, all being well, in terms of the

potential for it to come from a water-sourced problem, and that has

been the case in all the outbreaks of pseudomosni elsewhere. We can't

at this stage say that's the cause of the problem, but it's certainly

one of the areas being investigated. Being a microorganisimism, this can

leave in very clean environments, and obviously the whole issue of

hand hygiene is absolutely critical not just for staff but also those

visiting these facilities. I would urge people to whatever hospital

facility they're visiting to actually use best practising as set

out by the hospitals because we need to ensure that hospital-

acquired infections are reduced and very often that can be members of

the public who introduce those infections to the facilities. In

terms of this particular facility, we'll continue to identify where

this problem has come from. Hopefully, we'll get to the nub of

it in the future. We're facing big Fiennes over management of

Strangford Lock. The wildlife trust has complained.

The Minister joins me now. What sort of fines are we talking about,

what sort of figures? Hopefully, there will be no fines, but if we

were to find ourselves on the wrong side of the fraction, then the

fines would start at around �7 million. That's why I have made it

my purpose since I became Minister six or seven months ago to build a

much moor robust case about how we're going to deal with the issue

of the horse mussels in Strangford Lock, how we're going to protect it

going forward, how we're going to avoid further EU fractions against

us, and how we're going to further develop that resource, unique in

the scale of the protections it has. Some of the criticism has been that

they haven't been able to get the department of agriculture to play

ball. What's going on? There is no doubt in my point of view if they

were in the same room or if indeed the interests, environment,

agriculture and fishery were represented through the Marine

Organisation Association that manage the loch. These tensions

that have existed... You have the same executive table... Yes, but

departments are departments, and as we know, sometimes they don't join

up very well. Sometimes in the past there have been tensions between

those who want to protect the environment and who may want to

protect fishery or agricultural interests. In the last six months,

I think both departments have been working a lot better in getting a

better action plan in order to better deal with the issue of

infraction on the one hand and to better protect these very valuable

mussel reefs we have in Strangford loch in order to sustain that area

of the world and in order to use it in a positive way going forward.

has the fishing industry been protected at the expense of the

future survival of the lock? If you were to look at it over the last 20

years, you conclude no, because trawling has been banned from the

loch. That wasn't in the interests of the fishing industry as they saw

it. Last year two areas of Strangford Loch became no-fish

zones. There are two further areas that will be no-fish zones. If you

look at the direction, more and more, there is less and less

fishing going on in the loch, partly because there is less fish

and partly because the Government has been more robust in stopping

fishing because of the damage that has been caused to the reefs, but

there is more that we need to do, and I am hoping that the EU

authorities when they meet with my officials tomorrow will see there

is a new phase of management of the loch to protect the mussels on the

one hand, to restore on the other and to ensure that going forward

the risk of fines is limited, the protection of the environment is

secured and that the fishermen have For the first debate of the day was

brought by an unknown. First she had warm wishes for for her fellow

members. I wish you all a happy Chinese new year. The eradication

of child poverty comes up frequently in the Chamber but some

MLAs appeared irritated by the wording of the motion today. Its

stated that a quarter of children here live in poverty and called for

the education minister to target extra resources at them. The policy

has been exposed totally that grammar-schools accept pupils on

the basis of their academic ability. The report says that their chances

are dictated by the affluence of where they are instead of their

actual ability. There are swathes of the north where academic

selection is no longer used and in some grammar-schools it has been

dropped altogether. Those schools are still of a high quality and

continued to deliver for the students. To characterise the Child

poverty levels is not just strictly accurate in that sense, I would

refer members to report where a drop in absolute child poverty

levels was dramatic. I'm not making any particular party political

point, but clearly something was done at that time which was right

and which was impressive. And we as an Assembly need to examine the

work of our predecessors at that time and see what different

circumstances exist today. As the proposer of this motion, instead of

getting up and addressing the core issues of the heart of these

proposals, taking another opportunity to have a go at our

educational system, namely the grammar school. Pin it on whoever

you like, but do not give any claim to the department that happen to

have control over education for the past five years. It is the fault of

everyone else. It is regrettable that the tone and content of what

he started his proposals with were way off the Mark. Where there was a

pupil - teacher ratio of the right side of 30 pupils, there is now the

absolute certainty of a pupil - teacher ratio on the wrong side of

30 pupils. So the sad reality of life today in our region for

children in primary schools from the most deprived backgrounds is

that things are worse today than they wear last year. And the

unfortunate sad consequence of where we are with our budgeting

process is that they are likely to remain in a very bad place. Oliver

Wilkinson, the Secretary of State recently asked the parties to come

and talk to him about the past. Do think that is worthwhile? What

would be a solution to how we properly deal with the past?

pleased to see that this issue has come back onto the agenda. It

disappeared for quite some time after the Consultative Group on the

Past report was all but buried. That is a shame. But if things are

beginning to change, and if our political leaders have the courage

- and the use that word deliberately - I'm thinking of

something risen by an American writer who said his tree, despite

its wretched pain, cannot be unlived. But we hope that as our

political leaders find the courage to have the kind of conversations

that are taking place right across the Community, we may find we do

not have to live the horrible history that many of us have had in

the past again. So do you think that politicians, because there is

a lack of consensus, between the parties, are they out of step with

the wider public? I think they are at risk of that. There are very

positive conversations taking place, because they needed to take place,

at community level so that communities can live together and

full-forward. I think politicians are a little bit behind what the

community is doing. In November or Basil McCrea stirred up controversy

when he proposed that the entire employment and training committee

should go on a fact-finding mission to San Diego in California. The

City's universities are famed for their research which has become an

important economic driver. But the idea was dropped amid complaints

that it was a junket. But it may not completely have gone away.

You will have noticed some media coverage recently about a possible

visit to San Diego. Some members thought it was not a good idea. Do

you think it would be important for some people, even not in this

committee, that there should be the visit to San Diego for people like

ourselves? I cannot comment because I do not

understand what is going on with the departments, I cannot comment

on whether it is appropriate for up a committee visit. But considering

other regions which we can learn from, if I may consider the

committee's point of view, just a basic question of should we learn

from other regions, I think absolutely. I was in California for

three years and spent two years, self funded, because the

transformation in that area was incredible. If I had not done that,

I would not be here today talking with some knowledge of what was

achieved there. What I would urge the committee not to include in

criteria up like that is what it cost a couple of extra quid on a

plane ticket if the prize is additional GDP. I think that could

be forgiven. Apart but the criteria, I thought that was useful. This

session is not considering any trip, I make that clear. It is about

taking information. For many people there are any concept of poker has

come from television and cinema. Looking at poker games in films.

Games were players could bet anything they owned, gold watches,

title deeds. This could not be further from the game that we love

and we play. I would like to highlight the changes in the past

40 years which have led us to where we are now. The first important one

is the introduction of Tournament Poker. That occurred in Las Vegas

in 1970 with the World Series of Poker Tournament being developed to

try to find the best poker player in the world. It is essential to

know that in a poker tournament there is a flat fee, a fixed fee.

The Blairs are given a certain number of chips and the object is

try to win them all. The chips do not have a monetary value. It is

not possible within the tournament to spend more money. Poker has been

with us near enough for ever. Where I grew up there are a number of

card games that were played, some to the extreme. But poker is the

game that has lasted through most of them. And I know many people in

my constituency would go to their friends' houses at the weekend and

sit and play poker and enjoyed it. And it is far from some people's

impressions of a group of men sitting in a room drinking and

smoking. As a matter of fact, most people playing cards and especially

poker, do it alcohol-free. Politicians love their memoirs.

Even if sometimes they are notoriously hard for booksellers to

shift. Unless it is Thatcher or Tony Blair. More often than not the

bargain bucket beckons. All the Zane the latest politician to tell

all his Peter Hain. Remember him? The permatan secretary of state.

was a man of with a long and interesting career and these will

be interesting memoirs. He was secretary of state here for a time

and spent most of his time trying to persuade the DUP to go into

government with Sinn Fein. He reveals that he used a kind Paisley

Junior as a way to get to Ian Paisley senior, to persuade him to

do the deal with Sinn Fein. Where Sinn Fein is concerned he said that

at that time the leadership was weary and he felt this was the only

point, that if they did not do a deal then, the entire project would

have been in vain. Peter Hain had some interesting reflections on our

political leaders, past and present. He doesn't eat. The aforementioned

Ian Paisley senior described as a real gentleman with old fashioned

manners. Peter Robinson said to be the brains behind the DUP and an

astute tactician. No surprise there. Martin McGuinness also, well-

mannered and polite and always asking after family, but not such a

flattering portrait of the Alliance leader David Ford who is described

as, pernickety, quick to take offence at some imagined slight and

in many ways the least flexible of them all. I'm sure it is not an

opinion that David Ward would have of himself. Last week Peter

Robinson said he wanted to see a single Unionist Party and today we

hear of some contact between the two parties. Well David McNarry,

the Ulster Unionist MLA, described Peter Robinson as an obstacle to

Unionist unity in the past. But now he says that some of the two

parties have been in talks. He says one of those involved is the DUP

finance minister at Sammy Wilson. And he further tells us that since

the election, the Ulster Unionists only minister, Danny Kennedy, has

been going to briefings with DUP ministers. He spoke to Danny

Kennedy this afternoon and he confirmed that this was an option

open to him since the election. He said he did not always necessarily

a tent and he declined to comment further or do an interview. Some

Debi MLAs have not been hiding their displeasure at what has been

revealed. So watch this space. We have not been able to speak to Tom

Elliot, the current party leader, because he has been in Scotland. It

will be interesting to see what he can tell us when he returns will

start we hear a lot about international truce commissions,

but there's no guarantee that people who take part in such a

commission would tell the truce? There is not. And I suppose when we

look at events like the South African truth Commission we can see

that there are many flaws in something like that, as there are

positives. I think we can do it better. With leadership from our

political leaders and with the full participation of our community, we

can find a truth which helps to heal and helps the Community to

move forward into a time when we would be able to look back and see

the things of the past as being of the past and with a much brighter

future for our children. Thank you for being our guest this evening.