24/06/2014 Stormont Today

Coming up in the next 30 minutes, David Ford outlines his vision

A justice system which protect the citizens and treat victims with

respect and fairness and makes best use of scarce public resources. A

justice system of which we can all be proud.

As the racism row rumbles on in the Assembly the Social Development

I will take no comment at all from Sinn Fein members about anything to

do with racism after 30 years of the terrorist campaign that thrives on a

racist attack on anyone who was British and not Irish.

And I'm joined by the political commentator, Cathy Gormley-Heenan.

Proceedings at Stormont were very much dominated

by justice and education issues today, but the media focus was

The Queen was in Belfast attending several functions with the Duke

The couple visited Crumlin Road Jail, the set

of the American television series 'Game of Thrones' and attended

But it wasn't just the locations chosen for the Queen

The Queen was here today and she spent much of the day in the company

of the Deputy First Minister. This has become something of a regular

occurrence. It certainly is. The impact factor is probably not as

high as it was but this was the first visit that Martin McGuinness

and the Queen met privately and a loan without intermediary is

probably not as high as it was but this was the first visit that Martin

McGuinness and the Queen met privately and a loan without

intermediaries to soften the conversation or move either one of

them in a particular direction. And again, these sorts of actions are

part of the choreography of the peace process. First you have the

meeting elsewhere, then with people and then alone. I expect further

meetings to take place. They seem everything relax uncomfortable in

one another's company. Yes, and that is a great difference between the

political and personal. As part of the political portfolio he needs the

Queen in his capacity as Debbie the First Minister but personal

relationships have been built up for a long time. They are both obviously

very aware of the symbols of being seen together. The symbolism today

was phenomenal. Part of the tour was in Crumlin Road jail, that spoke

volumes. Both Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson were detained at Her

Majesty 's pleasure in the prison at different points during the conflict

and the fact that both of them were together with her and taking her on

the tour was hugely some bollard but even more so the fact that she went

to Crumlin Road steel which was a jail which is very popular for

tourists and that agreement was found between unionists and

nationalists on the use of that jail as it is the traction spoke volumes.

The Queen the Queens Phil then it was made public several years ago.

That has never happened before. Is that another example of the

increased normalcy of the relationship between the northern

Irish republicans and the Royal family? Yes and sending the message

that there is absolute faith in the PSN I to look after the Queen on her

visit. And briefly, the first and deputy first ministers might have

been showing the Queen the sites but they have also been thinking about

politics, day-to-day politics in the background. There was a beating at

Stormont Castle logo has been scarce and there could be talked before

next week. Well anything happen before the summer recess? We only

have 12 and a half weeks but the message before the election is that

we have a window of opportunity to sort this out at my question would

be, what has happened since the end of the elections until now that has

delayed progress again on this issue?

Back to Stormont now and the debate on the Justice Bill

I am bringing forward measures to improve the way that the system

supports victims and witnesses, speeds up his profession and

increases the level of protection the system provides a Giggs they do

is founders. Part one trait a single jurisdiction for county and

magistrate courts, this will bring these two court cases in line with

the High Court, Crown Court and Coroner's Courts, delivering greater

flexibility in the disposal of court business by allowing cases to be

listed in or transferred to in terms of court weather is good reason for

doing so. The new arrangement will allow us to better meet the needs of

victims and witnesses, allowing cases to be dealt with at the court

venue that best suit particular case. Part of the mix prosecutor --

prosecutorial fines different. This will increase capacity. It will

enable some fences to be dealt with at an early stage without cost to

the court, enable prosecutorial resources to be better connected to

prosecute more serious offences. This dispenses with the idea of the

investigating officer to appear in court and releases resources to

policing. Part four contains provisions that will improve the

experiences of victims and witnesses in the justice system. It will

increase the standard of service that victims and witnesses can

expect to receive. These provisions should also give rise to a greater

focus on the needs of victims and witnesses across the criminal

justice system. Too often victims and witnesses are unclear about the

services available to them. They might not know when they should be

provided with information about their case or what measures are

available to help them get the best evidence in court. The charges will

address this by setting out for victims and one is a statutory basis

what services are to be provided, the standards of service required

and the clear indication of how they should be treated by criminal

justice agencies. Part seven makes provision for the introduction of

violent offences orders to help mitigate the risk of violent repeat

offending. The court can make an order where it is satisfied it is

necessary for the purpose of protecting the public from the risk

of serious violent harm caused by the offender. The provisions aim to

provide a similar level of protection to the public from the

risk posed by violent offenders. This is already provided to sexual

offences prevention orders to manage the risk from sex offenders. The

bill include Ruth reforms to manage guilty pleas. -- the bill includes

reforms. The provisions will require sentencing courts to state the

sentence that would have been imposed if a guilty plea had been

entered at the LA is reasonable opportunity and places the duty on

the defence solicitor to advise a client about the benefits of an

early guilty plea. With these provisions we hope to encourage

those guilty of a criminal offence to admit their guilt at the earliest

reasonable stage. This bill is part of a blueprint for the better

justice system in Northern Ireland, one that protects it citizens,

treated victims with respect and fairness and make the best use of

scarce public resources. In short a justice system of which we can all

be proud. The Justice Minister, David Ford,

outlining his proposed changes to the justice

system in Northern Ireland. And Cathy Gormley-Heenan

is still with me. The Minister is promising a justice

system we can all be proud of. Yet he has several areas to

improve and he also needs It is, some of the efficiencies that

can take place as part of the bill do not actually require a lot of

money. For example one of the more senior judges recently, just as we

complained that the length of time it was taking some cases to even get

to court needed to be addressed and that be addressed quite easily by

ensuring that representatives from the Public prosecution service have

to go to court to explain why there is a goalie in the proceedings in

blue have now been brought before the court in a timely fashion. That

does not cost money at all but requires personnel to be available

to the court in a certain period of time. Thank you for now. This is

what this assembly is all about. Legislating on things that impact on

people 's lives and now that we have started this bill through the

passage of the house it becomes the house is built. It is up to MLAs to

shape this bill. In 2012 the committee brought a report to the

assembly on this crucial piece of work that had been undertaken

regarding the experiences of and services provided to victims. And

witnesses claim encounter the criminal justice system. The

findings before difficult reading. Statements such as an accord, people

are misinformed, ill informed or not informed at all. As the trauma

suffered by families can often be exacerbated by the criminal justice

system. This made the committee determined to ensure that the

changes would take place. We would be in support of the idea of a

single jurisdiction. We will support that because it was out playing very

clearly. Rather than bringing this measure in with other aspects of the

court system. We will ensure better case management and in terms of the

use of witnesses and particularly victims, they will assist this

process and we will make sure the courts are held in appropriate

places. In my own experience as a lawyer that to some extent victims

and even witnesses were regarded... As incidental to the legal process,

to the trial. I think that the interests of victims was often boxed

during the course of those trials. -- often lost. What we have with the

justiciary and indeed amongst lawyers generally is the realisation

that victims do count. I welcome any efficiency that is brought into the

criminal justice system. I am sure that is what we are hoping to do

with this bill. And who would not welcome a faster federal justice

system? Although I hope that the minister is not indicating that we

do not have a fair justice system at the moment. I am wondering that when

we have a faster justice system will that bring more economic savings to

the justice process? We have talked a lot in the justice committee and

indeed at various times in this house about the legal aid bills and

I have been one who has said that we need to reduce the legal aid bill

but we must also reduce and look for other efficiencies in the justice

system. I wonder if this faster process is being proposed within

this bill and will it actually result in any economic savings? The

introduction of prosecutorial fines, for low-level offences, is an

important member -- important way to reduce pressure on courts. Many

offenders plead guilty and Magistrates' Courts, rendering many

experiences are necessary. I can take of no circumstances where if

you were a barrister or a solicitor you would ever let your client into

the dock without having told them, by the way, you fight on and are

convicted you will look at this range of sentence. If you plead

guilty you will probably look at this range of sentence. To think

that, all, a disabling through for a criminal justice system to put it in

clause 78 with all of the celebrity that this brings that it shall be

the solemn duty of solicitors to advise their clients of what would

happen in respect of an early guilty plea. Such nonsense.

Social Development Minister told the Assembly today that more that

1400 jobs in Northern Ireland could be directly under threat if the

Nelson McCausland was referring to public sector employees here who

work indirectly for the Department of Work and Pensions in England.

The jobs could be lost because the staff will no longer be operating

the same social security systems. What might be the implications in a

job situation? Around 600 staff are currently employed. It provides

processing for a number of working age benefits in the South East of

England. That work is done on behalf of the Department for work and in

so. There are 800 staff employed in the child maintenance service

providing service to the eastern area of England for the Department

for Work and Pensions. The total number of staff is over 1400.

Following a meeting with Iain Duncan Smith in March 2012, I highlighted

to this assembly my concern that these jobs will be at risk if

Northern Ireland does not progress with welfare reform. That is because

many of the competitive advantages that Northern Ireland offers will

disappear as the staff will no longer be operating the same

systems. While I share some of your frustrations, can you tell the house

when you last meaningfully engaged with any of this political parties

in this chamber to progress that matter? It is a matter that is

brought up regularly around the executive table. On many occasions.

Because I think that is where the matter sits at the moment. The

member would also be a way that there is a ministerial subcommittee

which has been working on this for some time. We the point some time

ago for everything possible that could be done in terms of extracting

agreements from Westminster and trying to get our reasonable package

of flexibility is in Northern Ireland, that is work that was done

in quite some time ago. Can I ask the Minister Fred he agrees that the

treatment of Michael was racial and intimidation? The disappointing --

it is disappointing sometimes divide the people take situations and

telling them to make political points. The members should learn

that lesson. The situation has been clearly identified by the Housing

executive and by others and the nature of their decision. I'm not

familiar with the details of the situation other than what I have

read in the newspapers. Having said that, anyone should have the right

to be treated equally by the Housing executive and should not

disadvantaged or discriminated in any way because of their race or

anything else. I would take no comments at all from Sinn Fein

members about anything to do with racism after 30 years of a terrorist

campaign that thrived on a racist attack on anybody who was British

and not Irish. The Education Minister today

revealed the names of the 15 schools which have been

approved for rebuilding. John O'Dowd told

the Assembly that ?170 million will be divided between eight primary

and seven post-primary schools. The Minister said

the schools were selected according Limited capital re-sources have been

made available to me. The scale of investment goes across a wide and

diverse schools estate. I am sure that every member of this house can

identify a range of schools that are in need of investment. I would love

to be in a position to make a statement that promises investment

to all schools in need. But I must be realistic and ensure that any

school announced for investment will be sustainable for many years to

come. The major project I am announcing today are as follows.

St Mark's and St Luke's Primary Schools, Twinbrook.

Monkstown High School and Newtownabbey Community High School.

St Joseph's High School, Crossmaglen.

In welcoming this announcement, I think it is mixed with good news,

partial news and no news. I think in respect of the case of this

announcement, some of it is a case of jam tomorrow. If you want jam

tomorrow, you have to grow fruit today. Are preparations in

recognition of the lead in time. The announcements I have been making

since June 2012 have been learning processes. The Department for

Education is now taking forward the largest capital programme. Could the

Minister tell us what it will mean to the construction industry in

terms of finance going into that industry? A recent report carried

out by the construction industry suggest that every pound announced

in relation to capital investment stimulates a further two within the

construction industry. My primary objective is to build new schools

for our pupils and communities. But I am acutely aware that this

announcement will also help the construction industry.

And it was a busy day for the Education Minister, as he was also

called to answer an urgent oral question, tabled by the chair of the

The Minister told the Assembly he hasn't cancelled teaching

redundancies after 120 school staff scheduled for redundancy were

All applications were assessed against a strict code Delia --

criteria. I am prized Tora ties and -- I have prioritised schools in a

closure or amalgamation situation. If funding were available, I would

be in a position to proceed with a further 28. 93 applications have not

been approved as they did not meet all the criteria. But if funding

were to become available, they may proceed. They have not been approved

at the stage for various reasons. I have not cancelled teacher

redundancies. I find it ironic to be called to the chamber for not

funding redundancies. Can the Minister tell the house

today where did you know that this scheme was not going to be fully

implemented and why was this scheme introduced without there being

financial security in regard to his budget? In relation as to when I

became aware of the situation, when it became clear that the safest --

the executive was not in a position to agree. That bid has not yet been

successful. Once that became clear that it would not be in place in

time, I informed schools of the position we were in.

A new apprencticeship strategy announced by the Employment Minister

came up several times during the course of question time today.

But first, we heard about the possibility of a veterinary school

being established at the University of Ulster's Coleraine campus.

The proposal has been brought forward by the University. It has

the discretion to offer better now vacate -- veteran Larry courses. It

is preparing an economic proposal to support it. This proposal might be

used to bid for additional funding. Would you consider the possibility

of economic support from agriculture and rural development because of the

subject matter? Investment is very expensive. The universal themselves

are talking about a school of 250 students, 50 across five years. It

is more expensive to train of it than any profession you might think

of. -- a vet. The university can go ahead with his from its existing

resources, but that might be a distortion. It is something we can

consider, but it has to be determined. The minister talked

about apprenticeships at level seven and level eight. What uptake does he

anticipate at those levels and what resource strategy will he be

deploying? Today, we are launching the high-level policy framework for

apprenticeships and we are making a major switch from a situation for

apprenticeships are primarily offered at level two and level

three. We have a fresh youth training offer which will address

the level two issue. This is very much in the hands of sector

partnerships to develop the framework. It is possible, we have

seen in other parts of the world apprenticeships being delivered at

level seven and level eight. We want to make sure that Northern Ireland

is part of that, but it is in the hands of the business community to

come forward. Can I ask the Minister, he read a

statement this morning saying that while he -- that access would be

widened, could you expand on that? We are looking at the expansion of

apprenticeships. We want to look at any particular barriers that exist

and we have raised issues about some of the gender imbalances that exist

already. Also people with disabilities. This will be

cross-referenced with work we are doing without disability employment

service. We are developing a disability employment strategy which

will be available in the autumn. And Cathy Gormley-Heenan

is with me again. There's just another week left of

the Assembly and there's a definite Not much of a serious nature

is being discussed or passed? One of the things before the

election was that everyone thought that welfare reform would not be

touched until the election was over and dealt with swiftly afterwards.

But given the severity of the penalties from the Treasury this

would be dealt with before the end of the parliamentary term. That

hasn't happened. If it is delayed until September, we have another ?10

million of penalties. A good effort, could do better.

Now, sometimes politicians up here on the hill can be accused of

of being a little out of tune with the electorate

but this evening in the Great Hall that certainly wasn't the case.

That was Ross Houston from the Lisburn Flute Orchestra.

He'll be taking part in a Guinness world record attempt in September

Do join me for The View on Thursday at 10.35 on BBC1.

Until then, from everyone in the team, bye bye.