30/11/2015 Stormont Today

After weeks of deals, deadlines and discussion over the DUP leadership,

it was back to more procedural politics on the hill today.

But that's not to say the matters they talked about weren't important.

MLAs discussed the recent closure of some private care homes, the

powers of the new Stormont watchdog and funding in local football.

So tonight, The Health Minister comes out fighting when accused

I think it is disappointing that the member in his opening comments chose

to make a baseless political attack on me and that is absolutely

disgraceful on such an important day that he would seek to do that

without any justification. And there's some difference

in opinion about the powers given to It may well be you will have an

ombudsman here, claiming against a doctor or a dentist when there has

not been legal representation. And with me to share his thoughts

on today's developments is the The Health Minister has been accused

of being "asleep at the wheel" after the

announcement that seven privately Last week Simon Hamilton halted the

planned closure of ten state-run homes after Four Seasons said it was

shutting several facilities. The decision will affect more than

250 patients and almost 400 staff. Today, an urgent oral question

was tabled and MLAs were keen to This decision was taken

independently of the department and we are no input to the analysis

conducted by Four Seasons. We appreciate the closure of seven

nursing homes by Bontnewydd will impact on many residents and their

families and cause great anxiety for those directly affected by the

closures. My colleagues are working closely with the health and social

care trust and Four Seasons in developing plans to manage the

transition for alternative care arrangements. We aim to ensure any

relocation will be managed with minimal disruption to residents and

that they are able to remain as close to their original location as

possible. The continued well-being of residence will be the priority

it. Should we conclude the minister has been caught asleep at the wheel

on this issue? Given the fact it's such a serious issue which affects

254 residents and their families, and indeed over 300 staff, I think

is disappointing that the member in his opening comments chose to make a

baseless political attack on me and it's absolutely disgraceful that on

such an important issue that the member would seek to do that without

any justification whatsoever. I am aware there are a range of issues

facing this sector and some of them are around staffing issues and

shortage of nurses which is something this sector and all

sectors in health and social care and parts of the UK and beyond are

facing in terms of a shortage of staff. And as the minister

specifically whether he now agrees that either him or his predecessors

have actually perceived this as a failure in terms of planning for our

ageing population? I don't accept the chemists of a failure by my

predecessors. -- premise. While we been aware of difficulties that we

are facing, we were not aware until the very luckily that we were

specifically going to close seven homes when indicated last Tuesday

they were going to close. I do not accept that there is much I could

have done in my position as health Minister in a devolved region to be

allowed a company who have over 10% of... Think of their debts, there

was very little I could have done to arrest that. Permit me important

distinction between nursing care and visit ensure care. What extra

support will be available at the residential homes if they are going

to accommodate some of these people moving from... ? You are right,

there is an important distinction that is important we follow that

flew in terms of the question he has asked about moving people with

complex nursing needs into residential care. That would not be

appropriate for particularly those who are very, very complex needs.

They were not get the standard of care that we would want to see them

gets. We need to be very, very careful. This is not the statutory

residential care homes, it is not a solution to issues with those of

complex nursing care needs. That doesn't mean there may not be

opportunities elsewhere within the state sector for those who do have,

let's nursing needs to be looked after all indeed elsewhere within

the independent sector. That's why there emphasis should be on us

seeing that the residents get the appropriate care they need, and in

most cases that is nursing care. And to try getting as close to their

care location as we possibly can. We will be working to that but it will

not be a matter of moving people with complex needs and put them into

residential care homes, that would not be right for them.

We saw the Health Minister being accused of being asleep

It is an affair. This is a private company running its own homes. There

is no evidence that anyone in the Department knew they had huge

financial problems, so huge they would have to close homes. This came

as a bombshell. Suddenly, you have seven homes closing, the other ten

are not closing, still having to find room for 450 odd patients. I

don't you can claim he was irresponsible, because it was out of

his hands at that stage. But Simon Hamilton was very

keen to defend his position? You don't offer seem angry. He

doesn't jump up and down, that is as close as I have seen Simon to

steaming. He was angry. Usually Simon is confident and relaxed, he

was very angry. And in this case defender of the policy of the

departments, I think in this case he was justifiably angry. This was not

his fault. How do you think Simon is doing? And then the health ministry

as a grave political careers. There's always something, so we need

people go through that system, some of the compliments. I think he was

much more comfortable, it is partly his background, he was much more

comfortable as finance minister. But we've you talk to people coming but

the two bombers, senior civil servants, people who have met him,

they all say he is enormously likeable, but he is also remarkably

well briefed. He is well thought of, but that may not come across to the

public, though I think he is one of the best ministers we have. Not for

the top job this time, but do you think we might see that in the

future? It is possible. He is after generation and younger, he needs to

learn the ropes. I would think that maybe in 7-10 years' time, Simon may

be First Minister. If he keeps the performance up that he has over the

last few years, it would take an awful lot at this stage to blot his

copybook. He is on the ladder. Thanks, Alex.

Ombudsman or Ombudsperson? That, again, was the question during the

further consideration stage of the Public Services Ombudsperson's Bill.

It aims to merge the posts of Commissioner for Complaints

and Assembly Ombudsman into a new office.

MLAs raised a number of concerns over the ombudsman's powers and

The amendments all relate to a change in the title of the new

office from Ombudsperson to ombudsman. The committee considered

the use of the term Ombudsperson in the bill and noted that it was

several committees and their intentions that it should be gender

neutral. The committee received evidence from the the ombudsman

Association and the Welsh and Irish ombudsman, that the term ombudsman

is already gender neutral. Our view was that we will prefer the title to

remain Ombudsperson and we do understand origins of the word and

the whole question relating to the gender issue. And it been a gender

neutral word. By the same token, we believe there has been an ongoing

cultural change in the last number of years whereby people tend to move

away from using the word manner. Amendment 139. It has been

considered by the OFM committee and it cannot support it. This amendment

would remove entirely clause 46 of the bill for delay before the

Assembly special report where injustice has been sustained by a

person aggrieved and that injustice not been, nor will be, remedied. The

power for an ombudsman to make a special report to the Legislature in

such circumstances is common to all UK ombudsman. It would seem strange

to say the least if this Assembly were to establish an ombudsman with

very effective powers of investigation and yet, by the

ombudsman finds the person who suffered injustice and that that

injustice has not and will not be remedied, to strip the ombudsman of

the power to make a special rapport before this Assembly. We cannot just

give a blanket permission to an ombudsman to make a special report

which could, as the chair has a very fairly pointed out, could have a

reputational impact, and adverse position of impact. In other words,

the person who has reported could well suffer reputational or

professional and damage. You can have a situation where it really is

around the medical profession that we are speaking, a situation where a

doctor is brought before the ombudsman because of the complaint.

At the moment, it it is the ombudsman's discretion and that's a

discussion for another day. But he may well be that you will have an

ombudsman involving a complaint against a GP, Doctor or dentist,

whether as be no legal representation. What happens over

special adviser, perhaps under the encouragement his or her minister,

acted outside the code of conduct? Does they all think such a minister

would agree to initiate an investigatory disciplinary action

against against their special adviser? Clearly there is a weakness

in the current system and my concern is that the legislation in front of

us today may not be specific enough and enable that to continue into the

future. I think some people may be misunderstanding the importance of

this amendment. This is to give you remedy to someone like Jenny Palmer

-- a remedy, who felt she had been bullied and oppressed by a special

adviser. That special adviser was protected internally from any

discipline by his minister, who superseded handover of the

recommendation to that effect. But the individual effects that Mrs

Palmer was left effectively without remedy. This amendment would give

her the potential of remedy to make a complaint to the ombudsman about

the bullying and oppressive behaviour to which she was subjected

by a fully paid civil servant under the guise of being a special

adviser. And after a series of votes

on amendments, that bill passed There was some difference

in opinion during that debate over the right of representation

for anyone subject to a complaint? I think what we already his system

is a number of Ombudsperson all. It takes an extraordinarily long time

for them to do a report. In some cases it has taken almost two years.

I'm not sure if bundling them into what is almost like a soup

Ombudsperson is going to help. They might make it much more difficult.

If you talking about a remedy, I'm not sure this is the best way, I

think it is actually complicated. Some MLAs were bringing up special

advisers there. I take the point that Jenny Palmer may have been able

to go, but I'm not sure that is the case. The nature of special

advisers, they are protected by the party, by the Minister, and they

will be protected if the Minister of the word in the ear of key

departmental figures. If 18 years -- months down the line, some

Ombudsperson says Jenny, everything's fine, it is too late.

It will have moved on. In a case like that community and still are. A

matter of weeks at most. She would still be waiting now, maybe for

another six months! She can do nothing else, she will not be able

to move into the Ombudsperson brings out the report. -- until the

Ombudsperson brings out the report. John O'Dowd brought out and

anti-bullying bill. We are asked about another layer of red tape and

teachers will be expected to make notes and it is just nonsense. We

have to sometimes sated teachers that they are running a class are

acting on our behalf and use your judgment, not everyone makes a

bully, kids make mistakes. Deal with it.

The Education Minister faced Question Time today and he revealed

to MLAs that some legal action by unions, challenging how teachers

assess pupils here, has been dropped.

John O'Dowd told that the so-called Levels of Progression are the best

The Minister was asked for an update on the matter by

I have listened to the views and concerns and they have listened to

mine and demonstrated that this is accurate. We have common ground and

it is my view there can now be no possible justification for continued

industrial action in this area. On October the 22nd wrote to the

teachers Council representing all of the unions and I set out the

significant steps I am prepared to take on the end of Key stage

assessments at 16 and 15 and I recognise those must evolve as they

embed. If other unions follow the examples of those thus far it will

give us space to continue discussions and allow the

assessments to begin and, as I repeatedly said during my

discussions with the unions, that we need to allow this process to

begin. It will evolve over a period of time and we all want to ensure

that we can achieve the best education possible for our young

people and we have the correct way of recording our data for that

purpose. Principal Deputy Speaker, can I ask the Minister that at the

heart of this there seems to be a lack of confidence over Levels of

Progression as a means of assessment. When the minister talks

about our evolving situation, one of the evolution that has two skirt is

the continuation of alternative means of assessment as we move

forward. For this process to evolve, it has to begin. For it to begin, I

welcome the fact that our own number of unions extending -- suspending

their industrial action. We must achieve an assessment process that

makes the neat -- meets the needs of young people in our education system

and our teachers. Perhaps some simple English and using more than

-- no more than two syllable words, would the Minister agree with me

that the Levels of Progression were used as an accountability measure

and eroded any possible use they might have had as an assessment for

learning tool. What is wrong with the Department for Education, or an

education authority having an accountability mechanism? How do we

ensure that our young people are receiving the educational

opportunities they should receive? I make no apologies whatsoever for the

accountability. I have told the unions I have no apologies for Si

King accountability routes and it is how those tools I use that are at

cause for concern for the unions and the unions themselves are not shying

away from accountability. It is the purpose of what the accountability

is used for and they were concerned that Levels of Progression would be

a blunt tool to identify schools under the Levels of Progression that

can be identified as underachieving and therefore all the power of the

Department for Education falls upon them and I have assured the unions

that that is not possible and output changes in place to ensure that is

not the purpose of them and the purpose of them is to ensure that

young person's education is up to standard.

Tuition fees, budget cuts and funding

for further and higher education all came up during questions to the

But first, Stephen Farry was asked to give an update on the current

business case for the expansion of Ulster University's Magee campus.

We have asked for further clarification on a number of points

and that request was made by my officials at the beginning of July

this year and we have yet to receive the revised business case and I

would encourage those who are finalising it to get it to us as

quickly as possible, not least given that decisions and budgets are

looming. Ultimately the issue of the expansion lies with higher

education, has the member will appreciate and higher education is

set to be part of the new Department of the economy from May 2016

onwards. Does he accept that proposals to increase tuition fees

would have a negative impact on his department's commitment to widening

access to people in disadvantaged areas. I have not proposed an

increase in tuition fees, I have simply outlined the fact that our

current system is unsustainable. My first priority is to ensure we have

a sustainable system for the future of our economy and the future of

society, and also to give young people opportunities. Until we can

find a solution around which we have a bill of consensus all options

remain on the table and stage I am not advocating an increase in

tuition fees. The cuts that the executive have imposed on my

department, and I have had to pass on to universities have already had

an impact in terms of people's ability to access higher education.

We have had a situation where we have fewer places on offer from this

year so some people will be forced to forced to go to Great Britain or

elsewhere in the world and be forced off to pay higher tuition fees than

would be on offer in Northern Ireland and in some cases people

have had no opportunity to go to university at all and therefore lost

out on a life transformational opportunity, so we are seeing very

real costs already. Does the Minister intend to make his

recommendations on the funding of higher and further education decided

the election or was the big conversation be delaying tactic to

avoid potentially unpopular decisions? I hear the former

minister did exactly that saying here here so clearly we know where

the form lies in this particular regard to, which I think was why my

department was chosen last because of the political hot potato of

tuition fees was left unresolved until after the Assembly Election.

What happens is very much in the hands of the executive and also the

Assembly. Let me be very clear, I am determined to get this issue

resolved. We cannot park this issue it cannot afford to park this issue.

Our universities are bleeding already and we have issues that are

unresolved will undermine our credibility. With the Minister agree

that the corporation tax to work properly and benefit all in society

we need a high productivity, high waged and high skilled economy and

with recent cuts in places of universities are entirely counter

strategic to the introduction of corporation tax and that ambition.

Yes, I entirely concur with the sentiments that the member has

expressed anger has been a major focal point of question Time to date

and I would echo the point that I have made, that was important as we

look ahead to making our own budget decisions over the coming weeks and

months that we very much have in mind some of the things have been

done in the past and the requirements of the future and it is

important that we start now to further invest in skills.

The stop-start upgrade for Windsor Park has attracted much

attention in recent months, but today the Culture Minister

revealed that it's not the only stadium that can expect an upgrade.

Caral Ni Chuilin today launched a 12-week consultation aimed at

invigorating grassroots football in Northern Ireland, with more than ?36

The consultation document has been developed to reflect priorities

outlined in the draft paper prepared by the IFA in 2011. Today's launch

takes into account these priorities as well as subsequent needs that

have emerged in soccer since then, by providing an opportunity over the

next 12 weeks for every one to input before the programme is finalised.

Will the Minister recognise the Minister recogniser into media and

junior football in real need of support for the individual and

community outcomes it achieves four groups in areas of particular high

social need? Witchy commit to ensuring that as many football clubs

as possible are fully aware of the opportunities that this fund will

create? I thank the member for his question and I certainly agree with

most of the sentiments he has made, if not all, particularly in terms of

the intermediate and junior football, and within that I include

boys and girls as well because there is a real problem with

representation of women, particularly in the three big sports

and in fairness there should be steps to ensure more inclusion. All

must have and to demonstrate inclusiveness, they must demonstrate

that they are reaching people who have not been reached in the past

and not just for the application process but also for the future, and

it will be strongly tested. Can I asked the manager there are any for

a similar scheme for rugby in the future? The member has engaged with

the three main sports and he would have heard that along with the sub

regional programme for soccer, along with the IFA, along with Ulster

Council GAA and indeed Ulster Rugby, the three bodies have actually asked

for additional resources for sub regional opportunities in the next

mandate. Those discussions have started and while we are launching

the consultation into the sub regional soccer, I have already said

that there was probably and most likely not enough money to meet the

needs of also those conversations between the big three sporting

bodies are my department have started and I am encouraged by what

I have heard is thus far because it would seem the direction of travel

for the three big sports, not just looking at single facilities but

facilities they can share, and share physical facilities and also skills

and expertise. Speaker, I understand that this announcement comes from an

decision by the executive on the 10th of March 2011 and that is some

time ago and a lot has changed since then, not least of which is the

financial position we are in and I wonder if the Minister has had cause

to bring this minister back to the executive at all and ask them if

they are sure that in the light of other opportunities we really should

be in a lot has changed since then, not least of which is the financial

position we are in and I wonder if the Minister has had cause to bring

this minister back to the executive at all and ask them if they are sure

that in the light of other opportunities we really should be

the member will be aware that there is a programme for government

development in developing stadium that still stands. Prior to this

consultation being launched today I consulted my colleagues in

correspondence to let them know it is the case. I have had no feedback

from anyone to suggest that this is not value for money.

And Alex Kane is with me for a final word.

Away from the chamber, there was a significant ruling today on abortion

People say this is landmark, and it is. But is it another one of those

little signs that a lot that is going to change in Northern Ireland

is coming through the courts, because the Assembly has not been

able to do it or have the proper debates and it has become very us

and them on all sorts of strange issues like the gay blood thing and

this and same-sex marriage and on all the big socio moral issues that

we need to see changed in Northern Ireland it is going to be the courts

that need it and that is astonishing. Is there any chance now

that we will see legislation on abortion? I think it will have to

come. There is no doubt there will be a appeal, it has to be a test

case, that has been accepted by all sides, but I would be very surprised

if we did not in the next 18 months or two years see legislation because

the Assembly won't. They cannot just throw down a petition and say they

do not care about the court and judicial reviews, it will be forced

upon them. You do not then expect this to be the last time that court

intervenes on a very contentious political matter? Know, and they

shouldn't have to to convene -- intervene. They should be the very

last port of call on these matters and they should not be just because

the various parties do not want to deal with an issue. You get the

sense that they want to pass it on, they know they will have to make it

but they want to shop there for shoulders and say they were forced

to do it. They knew was coming down the road and it is unstoppable.

Thank you very much for joining us on storm on today. That is it for

tonight and Mark is back at the same time tomorrow night at 11:15pm on

BBC Two. Until then, from everyone on the team, have a good evening.

Goodbye.