30/10/2017 The Hour

Good evening and welcome to Ebbw

Vale, you are watching The Hour, the

brand-new debate programme for Wales

which puts people back at the heart

of politics. Tin out which we are at

the GS Yuasa factory which provides

370 jobs in an area which needs

them, I am Catrin Nye, we are here

talking work. 70% of us do not feel

any better off than we did five

years ago. Three quarters of us say

that worrying about work or money is

affecting our mental health. Tonight

on The Hour we ask, is Wales

working?

APPLAUSE.

APPLAUSE. With us here in Ebbw Vale

we have an audience of local people,

experts and some of our elected

politicians. In Wales, unemployment

is actually going down, the economy

is slowly growing but we have found

out just days ago that we have the

lowest pay in the whole of the UK.

First, let's look at some of the

history that got us here.

And so

today there were mixed emotions as

the last mine was in the Rhondda.

With out the dirty conditions, they

are a good clean industries.

It is

the young ones you feel sorry for.

Cheer up! Cheer up by!

And all those who work hard and make

this country what it is, I say this,

if you have a job but don't always

have job security, I am backing you.

Hello? And to all the decent men and

women and families you meet on the

streets of countless towns and

villages across Wales and the

country, I am backing you.

We don't

just want jobs, we want better jobs,

it is down to Labour to recognise

the changing patterns of work and

the opportunities of new

technologies and the security that

stalks to many people.

So, the first

results of our poll has told us that

a massive 70% of us do not feel any

better off than we did five years

ago and that was at the height of

the impact of the recession. So, why

is that? I will come to the audience

and stir with you. Why do you think

we were in a situation where people

do not feel better off?

Six years

ago I was earning a salary

equivalent to my qualifications and

experience and I have many years of

experience in primary and secondary

education as a teacher. What

happened was, I had a really good

job, learning about £670 a week, and

then when that job finished, I did

it for a year, I have good pay and

conditions, the following year,

because the government decided to

change the way, let people work on

supplies for schools, that they

would decide to use agencies. One

preferred agency that everyone had

to go to if they wanted to get a

job. What did that mean? It halved

it straightaway. I was employed in

Newport at £85 a day. It was the

same job on someone on £40,000 a

year and my tax return said I was

earning £15,000. It became really

bad, over the following few years, I

experienced extreme stress. I did

not have enough money to pay my

rent, the fact that I needed to get

to work, for my travelling and also

for food. The sort of thing I did, I

sublet rooms, casual people came in,

my landlord said that was OK, but

eventually because during the

holidays it was very difficult for

me to get extra work, even though I

did as much as possible, I did

things like working on building site

and I took at nursery work which is

far below my qualifications but I

didn't mind because I was still

working and eventually I lost my

home.

That is incredibly extreme.

I

was homeless and I had to live in a

van and I was teaching secondaries

school children and I replaced a

head of Department, I had no holiday

pay, no sick pay, nothing at all, no

pension, my pension rights were then

gone.

Thank you very much. We have

got Amanda, you run a pub. Does that

mean something to you?

I am probably

worse off now than 15 years ago.

Yes. Obviously, I do not get as many

customers as they used to, so we are

feeling the pain of that.

Thank you.

I will come to you. Do you recognise

what you are hearing? 70% of people

not feeling better than they did

five years ago?

For us it is

slightly different, we have seen

significant growth and been able to

secure several large contracts which

has enabled us to take on local

people and upscale them and we have

been able to increase their wages

and work on job security. We have

had to work hard on that. We have

been able to provide in-house

training. I cannot say I have seen

the same sort of things.

Do you

think that hard work still pays? It

has for me. Thank you. Let us dig

deeper into those statistics. Here

is our social media man, Steffan

Powell.

Thank you. Hello to everyone

watching. Let us get stuck into the

results. We spoke to over 1000

people in Wales and we have some

revealing insights into the mood

amongst Welsh workers. Let us look

at one of our major findings. 71% of

us say we do not feel better off

than we did in 2012. 29% think they

are worse off, 42% about the same.

When we think about 2012, that is

when the impact of the reception was

really biting, unemployment was

pretty high and this is significant

because it is saying that five years

later, despite that, we do not feel

better off on we can break this down

into age, let us look at how we feel

in age groups, 61% of the younger

age groups, it is higher in the

older age groups but 61% is

significant and we can break it down

by social class, look, ABC ones,

they are your managerial and

professional jobs and then your

manual, skilled and unskilled

Labour, people from working-class

backgrounds, they are saying there

are more likely to say that they are

not better off than they were five

years ago. One of our other big

findings is about how much you're

getting paid next month. Are you

worrying about how much you are

getting paid? 28% of us said they

are not sure how much they will be

earning from month to month, it is

not sex, that is probably a

reflection of the fact we have more

short-term and temporary contracts

and proportionally there are more

poor Bill -- Macklemore people on

zero hours contracts and the rest of

the UK. It is something you have

been talking online about. Let us go

to Louise on Facebook. She said that

£25,000, the average earnings for

someone in Wales would be fantastic

for her, she is not earning anywhere

near that because she is on zero

hours contract. I want you at home

to do me favour. You probably have a

phone close to you, I want you to

use it, get in touch and be part of

the conversation. We are on Facebook

and Twitter, let us know what you

think. Lots of you have already done

that, thank you to that. You are one

of them on Facebook, she says there

is worse to come. Do we think that

London cares about wages in Wales?

We have Natalie on Facebook going

back to zero hours contracts, they

are taking advantage, they should

offer people job security. Thank you

for getting in touch. You should be

doing it as well. Lots for people to

be in the audience getting their

teeth stuck into.

We heard that

statistic, 28% of people not knowing

what they will learn from month to

month, what is that like? What is

like not knowing what your wages

might be?

It is very insecure. When

I first left the mining industry, I

went to a local employer, I was

taken on as a temporary employee. It

became clear after about ten miles,

if it did, you're taken on by the

company, years service was backdated

from the time you started as a

temporary employee and you fell a

lot more secure, getting all the

company benefits and bonuses.

Thank

you. One thing about this room,

people are hearing quite a loud

noise, we are in a factory. We have

also got Debbie here. I note that

you work for the housing association

and you have a unique perspective

over a lot of different people and

their arrangements, their work

arrangements.

That is right. We will

have some people who are not working

well quite a lot of our tenants are

in work we make the assumption that

people are work they would be better

off, and sends over the last couple

of years we have been able to get

more data about financial

circumstances, we note that

significant amounts of them are in

financial distress, 60% of them are

actually work.

Is it these kind of

contracts?

Yes, absolutely, when we

did more digging, for example, we

looked at one tenant who has been

suffering rent arrears and

difficulty in paying rent and over

the last 18 months they have been

insecure employment, zero hours

contracts and it makes it hard for

people to budget on a month by month

basis.

The opposite argument to what

we are hearing is that the gig

economy, these different contracts

were you may not know quite what

you're going to turn allows

flexibility. I want to come over

here. Do you have an opinion on the

giga economy?

The vast majority of

people in the gig economy say that

they value the flexibility, in

Cardiff there are large sum of

students and young people that

valued the flexibility that it

gives, they can work certain numbers

of hours and we know that in places

like London, companies like Uber

operate, they work to the

flexibility that there are family

lives and social lives demand. They

can take on side projects. You

cannot speak about individual cases,

but across the board, most people

stay on zero hours contracts that

they value the flexibility.

Obviously these statistics are

showing people feel inflexibility.

I'm going to come over here.

Listening to the stories so far, are

you worried about the state of

working Wales?

We've known for a

long time the economy is working

pretty well for a small number but

not for a large number. I think that

the consistent -- that is the

consistent picture over a number of

years. The question is, how do you

change that?

You've got a roomful of

people in here living in this

country not feeling like it is

working for them. You've been in

power for 18 years.

This is the

consequence of the global economy

that we have and we've seen through

the rise of Trump and the vocal

Brexit, people feel left out and

left behind and the economic system

doesn't work for them. As

politicians, we've been desperate to

find answers, and they are not

simple answers. -- the vote for

Brexit. What we've been trying isn't

working. We've been plastering the

wall hoping something will stick.

And it's doing the same thing over

and again. The Welsh economy has

been bumping along the bottom for

100 years. This is not a recent

phenomenon. The peak of Welsh

employment was in 1910, 1911, and

since then the economy has been on a

downward slope and we've been

desperately trying a whole range of

things for 20 years or more to try

to change that. But let's be frank,

we've been running to stand still.

There are successes to point out, of

course there. This factory we are in

today is one of them. And there's a

whole range of things I could rattle

to you to give you a politician's

odds of things that are working, but

I'm more interested in the bigger

picture, which tells me we are doing

the same thing over and over again

and expecting a different result and

it's not working. We need to think

afresh.

This is an admission that

Labour has been in power in Wales

for 18 years and everything needs to

change.

We have been able to keep

things stable but we are running to

stand still. Let's be brutally

realistic - the powers we have in

Wales, we talk up our ability to

shape the economy. The powers we

have are actually pretty limited.

The powers the UK Government has to

shape the economy are pretty

limited. This is a global economy.

It's a system which is leaving

behind a bunch of people who,

frankly, don't have any other

option.

One of the things I've heard

many times, because we've been

talking to people here and on social

media, saying that Wales hasn't come

up with a big idea, that you've been

good at... Like, you've admitted

chucking money at different project

but there's nothing that sets Wales

apart and says, this is what we are

going to be good at in Wales, this

is what this country will be.

I

don't think there's a magic bullet

and I think politicians are seduced

by a transformative project. I'm fed

up with that because it doesn't

work. The situation we're in is the

result of a lot of very complicated

global forces, which is very

difficult to push back against, and

I think we need to take a hard look

about where we are at in Wales and

what has worked and hasn't and do

things differently.

Thank you. We

also have Leanne Wood, Plaid Cymru.

Thank you for coming. Listening to

Lee there, what is your reaction?

Could they have done better?

I think

it's too easy to surrender

everything to global forces. That

has an impact but we've had devolved

government in Wales for 18 years now

and what has been tried clearly is

not working for the majority of

people. We've got wages in Wales 10%

behind the UK average and we've got

the largest number of people on

minimum wage jobs, so even though

unemployment doesn't look terrible,

given that those wages are low...

It's the quality of work?

Yes, and I

would say we need to try something

very different now.

What, though?

We've tried the overheating of the

cities, the M4 corridor. But we've

not really given proper investment

to other parts of the country and I

think we need to start at the

grassroots of the community level

and not try to get everybody to go

to work in Cardiff for Newport or

Swansea.

APPLAUSE

And there has been success in other

areas. Edinburgh, Sheffield, there

were places -- they were places

where they previously had a coal

industry and then they had a

regeneration of infrastructure and

they've done much better

economically than we have here, so

there has been a failure to invest

in skills and infrastructure.

But

we've heard that before. We need

more skills, better infrastructure -

what does it mean?

It took four and

a half hours last week to get to

Cardiff from Caernarvon. We are a

relatively small country

geographically speaking. We should

be able to travel within our country

much quicker. That investment hasn't

happened and that's why I think it's

time for a new government, but we

won't go there!

Who would you blame

for that, that lack of investment?

Labour has to take some blame, being

in power for 18 years, but the

Tories in Westminster haven't helped

because the austerity they've been

pursuing has allowed the rich to get

richer and the poor to get poorer.

APPLAUSE

Thank you for coming, Jane Pratt.

Taking a lot of flak in the room

already tonight expect we just heard

austerity mentioned, a lack of

infrastructure. Do you think that

the people who really need help in

Wales are getting it? Listening to

the room?

I would like to see

everybody here, not under contract

the gentleman is describing over

there, but in order to do that you

need to have investment and

enterprise, and perhaps the most

significant thing that has happened

this year has been our Secretary of

State getting rid of the bridge

tolls, which is a fantastic

opportunity. And what do the Welsh

Government go and do, they bring in

a tourist tax! So we've heard from a

lady over there who works in a pub.

What you are going to do is create a

very difficult situation for people

in restaurants, pubs and have got

accommodation. If you're a parent

and you are going to take your

family on holiday and it's cheaper

to go to Yorkshire water Sussex

rather than come to Wales, that's

what they are going to do. -- to

Yorkshire ought to Sussex. You have

had your say, perhaps you would like

to let me have my know. I would also

like to say to Leanne, we've

introduced the living wage, which

has taken 300,000 people in the

United Kingdom out of very low

wages.

It's not a real living wage,

though, is it?

They are also £1000

better off because of the tax breaks

people have had, and here in Ebbw

Vale, unemployment has gone down by

20%. We have the lowest unemployment

rates in the United Kingdom and the

greatest investment and an economy

that is strong since 1975. So our

policies are working. But what we

need to see is a Welsh Government

with ambition that is going to grasp

the nettle and look outwardly,

because I've only read just today

that exports to countries like

America and Japan are falling

behind. The Welsh Government needs

to get its act together and needs to

get out there with their envoys and

sell Wales.

APPLAUSE

Can we have some people to the

audience?

She's entitled to her

opinion, not to her own fax. --

facts. Welsh exports are up and

there is no tax on tourism. The

Tories have been hammering for years

what they have called embassies,

overseas. Cutting tolls will

increase traffic by 20%. These are

disjointed policies and that was

just a greatest hits of political

cliches! Will need to do better than

this.

Thank you, Lee. Let's go over

here.

I firstly wanted to talk about

what was said about zero contract. I

study in London, I'm from this area,

so I've seen both sides of the coin.

The thing with zero hours contracts,

I'm from this area, so I've seen

both sides of the coin. The thing

with zero hours contracts, and more

than happy to take on one of those

if it means the people who are

struggling on these contracts can

have those opportunities to budget,

to be able to have that job

stability, to know what they've got

coming in every month, every week,

so they don't have to make these

really difficult choices we are

seeing people make, but then I also

just wanted to add, you know, I

agree with what Leanne says. We've

tried these big ideas. It's got to

be on a community level. We've got

things like co-operatives and

community cohesion projects that are

shown to have worked and I think

until all three major parties start

investing in those, we won't see any

progress.

So take it smaller?

Yes,

and put the power to the people.

Co-operatives are all about letting

people make their own decisions

about their working environment, and

it should be across the country and

the world to work and investment in

those projects would have a massive

impact, especially post-Brexit.

Thank you. Thank you for being

patient. This lady.

If you go back

20, 30 years ago, when the heavy

industry we had here, go back 100

years, the people in our area will

use to their brawn and not their

brains. They weren't encouraged to

actually better themselves. So you

had a workforce there that was just

happy to go out to work. What

happened when the coal industry

disappeared? What of the Welsh

office do? What did the Welsh

Assembly do? Did they give forward

thinking of what was going to be the

next type of employment that could

come to these valleys? Such as

technology? No. There was no

forward-thinking by what was the

Welsh Office and the Welsh Assembly.

You had thousands of people between

the ages of 30 and 60 who were put

on a scrapheap.

APPLAUSE

Bigger ideas. Bigger ideas? We are

hearing a lot of that. Let me come

over here. A lot of strong views in

the room and conflicting views as

well. As we always have in these

debates. Thank you for coming in. An

economist at Swansea University.

David, we want to make sense a bit

of what's going on in the room.

Unemployment is down, people don't

feel any better than five years ago.

What's going down?

This is not just

across Wales, it's across the UK, so

what we've seen is that earnings

haven't kept pace with inflation

over the last ten years, so we've

seen the inflation figures at 3%, a

lot of workers won't be getting that

3%. Across the UK we've seen zero

hours contracts go upfront just over

100,000 -- go up from just over 1000

to 90,000. Some are happy to take

those but zero contract workers are

more likely to be young, female and

minorities, and a significant

proportion want to work full-time.

So we have seen a quarter of a

million new jobs in Wales since the

beginning of this century, so that

is a story. The unemployment only

tells part of the story because the

employment rates in Wales are much

lower than in England, so we have

what we call high levels of economic

inactivity, and as the lady over

there said, we have what economists

call discourage workers. Those who

opted out of the market and are no

longer looking for jobs. The

politicians are partly right and

partly wrong. It is not that one

side has got it right. What we do

need is an investment in skills of

people. Whether we've done that

correctly in the past, I'm not sure.

There's a lot of people saying it

has been got wrong. What do you

think the right plan is?

We know you

have to start at school level.

That's not great for politicians

because they don't vote! But we have

to get it right in our schools and

it feeds through. We have seen

funding money from Europe and over a

quarter of a million people get

skills, but the question is, did

they get the right skills for the

labour market? Somebody else said,

they are right, there is only so

much the government can do. They

cannot transform the economy but bad

policy can make a big difference.

Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE

OK, so let's turn to some more

results of our poll. We got some

really interesting insight about

what work is doing to our health.

We have indeed. Let's move on and

look at some of those poor results

in detail. We've had some really

striking ideas here about the human

cost of the pressures about the way

Wales is working at the moment and

how jobs make us feel.

The main want to come out is that

74% of us are worrying about work

and money and it is affecting our

health. That's nearly three quarters

of us saying our mental health is

being affected by worrying about

money or work. We can break that

down by age as well, and we can see

it is affecting younger people.

Younger people more than people in

the older age bracket. 80% of them

say worrying about work or money is

affecting their mental health. It

might be that there is less stigma

of people in that age category

talking about mental health issues,

it could be that they have unique

challenges facing them. Whatever it

is, it is a significant figure and

is really quite striking. If this is

something that has affected you or

somebody you love or care about at

home, get in touch with us. We are

on Facebook and Twitter. It's

something that can have a big impact

on people'slives, as we are about to

see.

I am a designer of closing. I feel

like I could get more support

because I am is trying to start my

own business, I am trying to make

something of myself as well as

creating jobs for other people. From

starting off until now, I'm still

funding at myself in trying to get

there. That is how passionate I am.

I wish I received a grant, it would

make my life easier. My husband has

worked for the Council as a housing

benefit officer for three years, I

think. He was told he would be made

redundant. That was awful. The

thing, what went wrong because he

was doing so well. He said it was

because of cutbacks. He found

another job with the council, this

time it was security, night work,

which was held. Again, he was made

redundant. I am pregnant and now he

is redundant and we are panicking,

we have our second baby on the way,

what will we do? There is only so

much you can borrow from family. The

only thing we can do is go onto

benefits. I hate having to do that.

It is not like we are lazy people or

that we wanted this. It has caused a

lot of issues, strain on the

relationship on finances and the

baby is now eight months old and

having to do with my own issues like

postnatal depression, it makes it

ten times worse. When you think

about it,... Yeah. I do not want to

cry, really. To just have a small

house with a garden, not having to

worry, of how we will pay this bill

are what meal we will have tomorrow,

that is what makes the -- makes me

happy, it does not sound very

dreamy, but that is what makes me

happy.

She is here tonight. Thank

you very much for making that film

for us, very personal film. Can I

ask you first, who do you think is

responsible for your situation?

The

system, I think. Obviously, being

made redundant twice, my husband,

not myself, yes.

And you talked a

bit in the film about the impact on

your life more broadly, what is like

finding yourself in that situation,

because you did not want to claim

benefits?

We never wanted to claim

benefits and that is why we borrowed

from friends and family first rather

than straightaway claim. We were

made redundant for the second time

and I was pregnant with our second

baby and we had to do that. I think

at the time, we thought, we need to

do what we need to do, just to make

the best out of the situation and

think, we will work ten times harder

and trying get another job. We don't

even want to work for anyone now, we

want to be self-employed and that

has motivated us more to be

self-employed rather than work for

anyone else.

He said the impact was

more than just your finances, it had

an impact on your health and mental

health.

It was such a strain. I

suffered with postnatal depression

the first time and I suffered with

it the second time and it was much

worse and I think a lot of that is

to do with finances, because of

bills on top of bills and thinking

how are we going to pay for this and

that and a second child on the way,

I think that added to the stress and

the mental health and the issue I

was dealing with. It did not really

help the situation.

OK, we have got

Julian En from their mental health

charity Mind. That statistic, three

quarters of people saying that work

and worrying about money is

affecting their mental health, that

is staggering.

Definitely. Protect

their the valleys, we are seeing

people not being employed, it having

an impact on their mental health and

well-being and Mind recently

launched and report on thriving at

work, looking at how employers can

support and assist people who are

experiencing mental health and

emotional well-being needs in the

workplace and we are calling on

government to develop a mental

health action plan to support people

at work and changing cultures across

the employment sector and having

conversations about mental health

and supporting their later work.

Thank you. We will come to this

gentleman.

You have got the access

to work, it is fantastic, if an

employer wants to employ a disabled

person, they can apply for a grant

for that person, but because that is

being taken away, employers can no

longer apply for that, which means

employers are less likely to employ

disabled people. Disabled

politicians say they are doing more

to help the disabled get into work,

but they are doing all it can to

stop them, from my opinion, more

people are in employment than years

ago, that may in the case, but lots

of people are employment are using

food banks. There are lots of

disabled people using food banks,

you can have a whole debate just on

that topic.

Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE. Going around the room this

evening we are hearing a lot of

evidence of distress. And I wonder

if the promise that if you work hard

you will do better and your kids

will do better and your life will be

better has been somewhat broken. You

are from Ukip, how do you feel about

that?

Personally, I believe that the

greatest asset any nation has is his

people and if you listen to the

audience here today, what we are

learning is that everybody has

worked and everybody has to feel

worth and if we are not in

meaningful employment then it is

affecting mental health, two thirds

of the population say it is going to

affect them, that is a terrible

statistic. What we need to do, Lee

Waters mentioned about the fact

there is not this one big thing,

this one big issue, because they

have tried and tried to find that as

a government, what I want is for the

government to stop throwing sticking

plasters that things but actually to

grasp and have faith in the Welsh

people. What is wrong with having

ambition?

We need to have ambition.

Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE. The Liberal Democrats over

here, Alex Meredith, thank you for

coming. What is your opinion? One of

the things I thought was interesting

that you said Nathan is about having

meaningful work, what is meaningful

work? What kind of jobs to people

need to have to make sure they do

not feel like that?

Everyone will

have their own definition. It is

right to say that everyone has their

own story and their own journey that

they want to travel on we have heard

some very inspirational stories, but

a couple of things stand out. In a

situation where someone is suffering

from mental health difficulties, in

Wales there are not getting enough

support, it has been promised but it

is not delivered on we need to

invest more in that support, and I

think the postnatal depression in

particular is an area where we need

to do better. We see people with

inspiring ideas for small businesses

and I think these guys are an

example of this being penalised

through the Universal Credit system.

It is penalising the self-employed

and not encouraging them to build

businesses. We have got a number of

policies at government level and

national level that are penalising

the enterprise culture that exists

and the people can make this a

strong economy. There is one person

who I can think of who is doing

their very best to address that and

that is Kirsty Williams as Education

Secretary offering radical solutions

to the curriculum but also grounds

for people to study both as

undergraduates and as postgraduates

and part-time. We are the only

country in Europe that does that, we

have radical solutions that will

help us build that pro-enterprise

economy in Wales.

Thank you.

APPLAUSE. We have heard about the

situation in Wales now, but we are

in a time of quite immense change,

so what is next? First let us hear

from someone who firmly thinks that

his industry should be part of the

future and not just a memory of the

past.

My name is Andrew O'Connor, I

work in Tata Steel. I have been

there for almost 32 years. When

people mention Port Talbot they

tease about that smoke and

pollution, it is something we are

proud of, it is what we put up with,

it is part of what we do. It is a

proud tradition in our family, my

parents spent all their working

lives in the steelworks, it is in

recruitment, it tailed off a little

bit over the last 15 years, it has

not been that fathers and sons chain

if you like. Working 12 hour shifts

is tough, it takes its toll on you,

but we have got a team working

environment where we all work

together to produce this deal at the

end of the day. If we do not work

with each other and watched the

safety, the worst-case scenario, you

would not be going home at the end

of a shift. Recently the workforce

were faced with a difficult choice,

there was a ballot held whether to

accept the changes in our pensions

or run the risk of possible plant

closures so with a heavy heart, the

workforce voted strongly in favour

of the changes. It was a very

emotive time for everyone. But the

effect on the town and the area

would be massive if anything did

happen to the planned. If I was

allowed to ask a question in

Westminister, what other plans for

the steel industry, they say they

have an industry of strategy but we

would like more meat on the bone and

see whether there would be

investment in Port Talbot, all it

needs his faith and commitment and

we could secure this industry for

future generations.

Andrew's story

there, looking back at what has been

happening in Port Talbot and looking

forward to our poll which has been

asking questions about the future.

Let us get into the results. We

start with Brexit, would you be

better or worse off? Considering

Wales voted for Brexit last summer,

what we are seeing here is that 32%

of us think we will be worse off as

a result of Brexit, 54% think we

will be the same and only 14% think

we will be better off. That could be

because people think that they did

not vote for Brexit for economic

reasons or they think that they will

take the short-term hit for

long-term gain. Nathan Gill has

mentioned this, we asked about what

people, whether they were worried

about whether automation could take

their jobs in ten years' time and as

we can see, 28% of us think that we

are worried about the fact that

robots could be taking our jobs in

the future. We will break that down

by age group, 16-34 -year-olds are

more likely to be worried that their

jobs might be automated or taken by

robots in the future, will be think

about it, given that they have

longer to go on the jobs market,

they are further away from

retirement, that makes sense. The

future is something that you have

been talking about on social media.

Michael has been optimistic, he has

been in touch, he thinks Wales is

the best place to working, swings

and roundabouts and ups and downs.

He optimistic about the future. 71%

of people agreed with Michael that

there was optimism about future. Not

everyone agrees. Laura got in touch

with us and she said there is a

talent drain in Wales and it is a

disgrace, people will go to Bristol

and London to achieve their

ambitions and Charlotte agrees. She

said, I left, it is that simple,

there is a whole world outside South

Wales. Laura and Charlotte

suggesting you have to leave and get

out of Wales if you want a brighter

future. Pretty controversial. Do you

agree with them? Get in touch with

us on Facebook and Twitter.

Thank

you. I will go straight to someone

who I know has left Wales to further

themselves. You work in London, do

you agree with those people saying

you have to get out?

You don't have to get out. I chose

to get out because the industry I

wanted, those jobs are in London.

Hundred and 50 years ago, people

moved out because there were

industry is being built. The

industries of the future will be in

automation and you've got to seize

those opportunities. The way the

government can help isn't in central

planning, which we know fails, and

it fails everywhere it is tried, but

it is in getting out of the way,

bringing tax rates down so

entrepreneurs can take risks, making

sure there are networks being built.

Cardiff University has one of the

greatest research centres in the

West. Swansea does as well. But it

doesn't necessarily translate into

private businesses. You need those

private businesses to grow the new

economies that Wales will be reliant

on in the future.

Thank you. We've

also got Matthew. Thank you for

coming. You are a massive employer

in Wales. Tell us what you do.

Go

Compare is based in Wales. Entirely

in Wales.

How can the government

future proof Wales?

We need to bring

talent into the region but it needs

to be a 3-way piece of teamwork

between private enterprise, us,

investment by the government and

then into skills and talent coming

through schools, primarily. And

thirdly, the relationship with

universities and academia needs to

be strong. We see around the world,

everything from the west Coast in

the US to Germany, that teamwork

works well and you create an

environment in which business can

flourish, because you are taking

great people and developing them

further. Then you are able to work

with academia to create great ideas.

But you need academia to be flexible

and then you need business to invest

in people. I can relate to a lot of

the comments here this evening

because you can't just tell people

who work for you, don't worry, it'll

be fine. You need to invest in them.

For example, we have things like men

touring schemes, inclusion and

diversion -- diversity initiatives,

to help them develop. -- we have

development schemes. They then feel

better about themselves and feel

stronger as a result, developing

their talent, but we do need that

talent in software engineering and

data sides of our country.

Listening

to the other results we've had,

people feeling quite lukewarm about

the economic impact of Brexit. How

do you feel about that?

Just trying

to ignore it! Because what we need

to do is, we have a couple of

hundred people employed here and we

are very focused on making sure that

business is competitive for today

and tomorrow. We do not let things

like that impact our long-term

investment in the business and in

the people because I think the

business we have has a great future

and needs to keep investing now, so

I try not to let it way on our

minds, because I think hopefully we

will keep on helping people save

money anyway. That's what we do.

I'm

sure there are some people who are

very excited about Brexit in the

room. You were a Remainer, Jane

Pratt. How are you feeling now?

Excited?

Our Prime Minister has to

get on with it and deliver for the

people of the United Kingdom, and

certainly people here, the people

voted for Brexit. I think we've got

to make the most of the

opportunities it brings us,

especially here in Wales, and I

think we will be able to make the

most of those opportunities as the

United Kingdom. But I agree with

Nathan. We have got to really look

at... I mean, I'm the great

granddaughter of one of the stinkers

of the Cambrian colliery in the

Rhondda, but that was the last

Industrial Revolution. -- one of the

sinkers. We now have to prepare for

the next revolution. It is fantastic

that all the Apple phones of the

future will have a semiconductor

that's been made in Newport, and

there's been investment in that. But

we need the talent, we need the

young people in our technical

colleges and in our universities who

are going to be able to get those

good jobs, which are going to be

jobs that £40,000 plus, and they

will take people from the age of 16,

so I think there are some fantastic

opportunities and we've got to make

the most of them.

Thank you. Nathan,

are you worried about the statistics

saying people aren't very excited

about Brexit for their jobs and

futures? From the study?

I think

it's likely negative from that. More

people are positive or agree it's

not going to have a negative impact,

which is a good thing...

54% of

people think it'll be the same, only

14% that they will be better off.

The proof of the pudding is always

in the eating, and once we leave and

discover we can forge those links

with countries all over the world

that we've been denied from doing...

I mean, we're never going to be

able...

You think that will be for

Wales?

We will never compete on

agriculture but Wales land is the

best in the world and we can compete

on those markets. I think the

problem is a lack of vision.

You

feel embarrassed when you hear those

sorts of comparisons with Scotland?

Scotland is a different country, and

if you remember when devolution

began, Scotland started with a raft

of extra powers that we never had,

so the criminal justice system, for

example, is devolved in Scotland.

They have much stronger power base.

So they have more tools, basically,

to try to affect things. But if I

can come back to this point about

Brexit. The most liberal biggest

question people are facing is

uncertainty, whether it is

agriculture or other fields. Will

encourage to hear the employer there

saying he won't allow it to detract

from his investment decisions. -- I

am very encouraged to hear the

employer saying. But many are saying

they won't invest in the way they

should be, so we need some kind of

certainty that the Brexit the

government pursues is going to be

good for Wales, because the one I've

seen so far doesn't give me much

confidence in that regard.

You've

had your hand up for quite some

time. What did you want to add?

The

Conservative Party has cut tax,

increased the personal allowance,

but Wales has had an uninterrupted

Labour Party government. How can we

capitalise on the great

opportunities provided by Brexit to

bring in high wage, high school

jobs? I find it almost insulting

that the representative of the

Liberal Democrats would point at

somebody like Kirsty Williams as an

ideal Education Secretary, because

exam grades are down, we're not

getting anywhere in terms of our

skills gaps, and we need to copy

some of the policy from the

Conservative Party and change the

fact that not all students are the

same. So let's not pursue a single

stream comprehensive education

system.

APPLAUSE

Lee Waters, a lot of people talking

about this skills gap from all

different levels of the audience.

How do you feel about what he was

saying?

I think the one thing

devolution has done is to do things

differently. -- is allowed us to do

things differently. Many schools in

massive debt have been taken over

and handed back to the government.

I'm not interested in point-scoring.

There are strengths in our education

system and weaknesses. I go around

schools all the time. There are

world-class schools in Wales and

mediocrity as well, and we need to

drill down and make sure we get good

quality leadership and that we

invest, and the trouble we have is

that after seven years of austerity

from Westminster, the pressure on

council budgets in particular is

intense. And the ability to invest

in education is being squeezed.

Do

you think people get fed up of the

buck being passed by the government

in Wales?

I get fed up of that on

all sides!

It's quite easy for

Westminster to say, that's because

of the Welsh Government, and you can

say, that's because of the

government in Westminster.

That's

the nature of politics! I'm trying

not to get drawn into that.

We need

to be clearer about the lack of

skills. Some people on clearer about

the role of devolution.

Yes, we need

to show a real commitment to skills.

With the finite resources we have,

we should be putting our focus and

change coming is rapid. Overall

there will be benefits but lots of

people will be displaced and put out

of work. 28% of people are worried

about automation and more should be

worried because the data shows that

a third of all jobs in Wales are

vulnerable to automation. It is not

a new thing...

How are you going to

protect people?

We can't really

protect people.

But you have to

think long term about the future of

the country.

We need to get all over

it. We have put an awful lot of

money into infrastructure which

doesn't address the problems of the

future. The problem of the future

isn't long car journeys, it is

automation. It is the fourth

Industrial Revolution coming and

displacing huge amounts of work that

we've come to take for granted, and

in particular, women are vulnerable

to this. So for everyone new job

created, three jobs will be lost.

But for everyone new job created,

five female jobs are going to be

lost.

Aren't going to have to stop

you there because we have another

politician in the room. -- I am

going to have to stop you. Do you

have some better ideas in the Green

Party?

I think what we struggle to

do in Wales is recognise that most

of our industry is going back to

coal-mining, a lot of the wealth is

leaving. I'm working, many people

are working like ants, and is not

local -- it is not local people

getting the money, it is people

offshore. The fourth Industrial

Revolution, that will be

nano-technology and renewable

energy. Rather than spread ourselves

so thinly, we should look at the

tidal lagoons in Swansea, have all

that revenue in Wales, staying in

Wales. But one of the fundamental

things I'm noticing as well from the

stories is we have an economy that

works against people rather than for

them, so shouldn't we start thinking

about how we become much more...?

Like, civic pride. How'd we work for

other? How do make sure people who

end up caring for their mothers or

parents aren't penalised? -- how do

we work for each other? And then a

universal income. Everybody gets

paid a standard salary every week.

If we can stop these tax loopholes

and implement some really

progressive taxes so that if you

have a £10 million house or a £3

million house, you pay significantly

more tax. It is possible to do. By

doing that, we can potentially work

less. Maybe that can help with our

mental health crisis. We need to

start coming up with some big, big

solutions. Otherwise we will

continue to struggle.

APPLAUSE

Thank you. We are coming close to

the end of the show and I want to

hear from some use in the room. No

offence to anyone else. -- from some

young people. Because you are the

future. What do you want politicians

to do to secure your future?

It was

really interesting hearing people

saying about investing in young

people. In a way, we're talking

about quality of jobs. I think

there's something about allocation

of jobs as well, because I've chosen

to go to university and leave the

area, but there are people in my

year at school, I went to a local

Welsh school, who have so many

amazing skills but they are being

pushed to go to university. That's

not the best option for them. So we

really need to... And I'm seeing a

lot of this being discussed at the

moment. We need to invest in

apprenticeship programmes,

internships, different kinds of

things. And we also have a situation

in the UK and Wales where we have

refugees and asylum seekers coming

in and we are putting someone who is

an expert in agriculture in Cardiff

and somebody who works in the food

industry in Abergavenny. These

allocations don't make sense and we

need some real strategic work, not

just around young people but around

everyone as to how we can make sense

of it some more.

Thank you. OK,

another comment.

I just wanted to

follow up because I currently work

for the Cardiff volunteer centre,

which is the biggest centre, and we

get an influx of many young people

and the skills gap has not been

taken care of. That's the issue I

have with politicians in general,

because it seems the solutions are

not being pursued based on feedback

from the population. They are not

listening. So what happens is, for

people, they are looking for a way

to a means. They need to have a good

job, money on the table to feed

their family. The other way round

for politicians it -- is it as a

means to weigh, to make the

statistics look good. Look at

Silicon Valley. 75% of workers there

have been from diverse backgrounds

and the of money that has come. So

there are resources in the country

but it is not being used at optimum

level.

Thank you. We really do hope

that the politicians here in the

room tonight are listening. Thank

you so much to everyone here for

having us. To everybody that has

contributed this evening as well.

The very first of our debates. This

programme is about putting people

back at the centre of politics. I

hope we've started to do that.

There's so much more to say, so

carry on the conversations on social

media.

Yes. On Facebook and Twitter,

#BBCTheHour. And remember that this

debate show is on the road as well.

Yes, so keep a lookout because we

might be coming to somewhere near

you very soon. Good night.