Episode 1 The Nolan Show

Hello and welcome to The Nolan Show. I'll be live on the BBC? A YES! --

are we live. That was absolutely awful. I told you to roar that. You

are very welcome. On the programme we grab the big news stories and

you will give you a platform. And at home. This is what is coming up

tonight. Thousands on the march this weekend for the big Ulster

Covenant parade but are we any closer to reaching agreement on

contentious parades? For God and Ulster, I going to the heart of

loyalist Belfast and they don't hold back. What are we sitting on?

The Protestant community, you are sitting on a powder keg. The most

successful rider in the history of Irish road-racing but Ryan Farquhar

says family tragedy and the love of his daughter means he is hanging up

the helmet for good. And it has been a national institution for

over 40 years but has page 3 had its day? Northern Ireland's only

Thank you for joining us. We take the big stories and we provide a

platform and hammer them out. Here Up to 30,000 Unionists will be on

the march this Saturday to mark one of the most important days in their

history. The Ulster Covenant parade will proceed through central

Belfast on its way to the City Hall and at Stormont. But it's the march

going past St Patrick's church that has attracted headlines. The

Parades Commission says only hens can be played as the band Patches -

- passes the church with no Moyola supporters accompanying the march.

It says no more than 150 people can take part in the nationalist

counter protest. Let's get reaction. Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly and

Councillor Lee Reynolds for the DUP and the SDLP's Alban Maginness and

Winston Irvine of the North and West Belfast Parades Forum. Gerry

Kelly, we are days away from the parade and this is a time for

leadership. Do you call on Europe humidity and the Carrick Hill

residents to abide by that determination? I'd do but I do not

have to. You've heard Frank Dempsey, who is from the residents' group,

and he said there had been determinations that while he was

very disappointed and part of the determination they would add here

too. Yes, but I do not think this Ms it because I think people have

spoken. A what do you think? residents have said that they want

respect and they talk about mutual respect and I have heard this from

both sides. How you define that and what it means, surely in the first

instance it means people sitting down face to face and talking this

out. That has not happened and 100 and put the people isn't that much

different than 500 people? will... When it comes down to it?

150 is what the determination is. And they will adhere to that. On

the day. I believe, anyway. And everybody wants this to be peaceful.

We must realise that this has not resolved the issue, you said this

had to do with St Patrick's Church but what happened with this century

manifestation was only a manifestation of what had happened

in Carrick Hill because you keep talking about Saint Patrick's but

the determination goes from the law -- the Orange Lodge down and what

happened at St Patrick's Church is that people have been through this

and I have witnessed this with many parades. Gerry Kelly was talking

and they have been saying this, there should be direct talks

between the Orange Order and residents. Should there be? There

was the offer of dialogue between the Orange Order and the residents.

The Belfast Orange Order? There were meetings arranged with the

parish priest and the parishioners and an invitation extended to the

residents' association. With the caracal residents, face-to-face?

There chair was invited to come to the meeting. Why did that not

happen? Well, I was not involved in these discussions and the priest

said he did not want to enter into the confidential and a bit --

confidentiality of that. Let me explain this, if the offer is to

talk to residents, they tell me that they are prepared to talk so

let us have these talks. We can argue about a few days ago, is

there any offer to top? If there is, I can tell you that the residents

are ready to talk so let us talk. What time? I don't do. You have

been involved? You have been talking to the Orange Order? I have

been working closely with the Orange Order to win sure that we

have peaceful and dignified parades on Saturday. The advice is to meet

face-to-face? My advice is to carry on with what we have got. We have a

very delicate situation and there was an offer for dialogue and an

opportunity was missed. Should they top tomorrow? Let's cut to the

chase. What a breakthrough that would be. Wouldn't it? The offer

was made by the Orange Order. Should they do this to murder?

you talk to the Orange Order, they will be happy for that. -- should

they talk to the Orange Order. For some people, the media would give

the impression that this issue is the Saint Patrick's but there are

Brits issues with the opera Ardowen committee over the last 10 years

and we had been active in the process to try to achieve dialogue

and agreement on the process and we have narrowly missed very difficult

situations because of the leadership shown by the Orange

Order and the community workers in the area. We have subsequently

followed that up with initiatives are. One of the reasons he wrote a

letter about the Parades Commission and said there was a problem was

that we were fully aware of the tension and anger building up and

we were trying to communicate to people that the politicians knew

there was a problem and we were trying to find a political solution.

This young fellow, yes? Why was it only now that this is a problem?

This route has been lodged on for three years. How old are you?

years old. You think this should be a priority for Northern Ireland?

Have you got a job? Do you want a better job? Do you not get

frustrated? It is my culture. The bands are my culture. And do you

understand what the other committee thinks? I can understand where

they're coming from but it is my culture. Why is it that this is a

problem this year? Why was there nothing last year? It isn't just a

problem... This was caught on video and it has become a very big issue

for many people outside of North Belfast. There are over 30 parades

going past this small republican and nationalist area every year.

The residents themselves did not want to bring this to the Parades

Commission because they wanted to get this resolved as an issue with

police to make sure that braves went down quietly but the sector is

an got some great... What Septrin has an? I am trying to answer the

question. What happened this year was it became very obvious, the

straw that broke the camel's back, and I was there in a for the last

big parade, the Balmoral March and I saw the sector innocence of the

sectarianism has been there, bubbling away, and I have been

talking to police and I said it you do not do something, this will end

up going to the Parades Commission. The young fellow when the glasses.

Why is a nationalist parade... The counter protest restricted why it's

there are 30,000 allowed to march through Belfast? Do you care about

the restriction for 150? I don't really care about it but the fact

is, I would like to see more nationalists having their voice

were not get any say. How do you feel about 150? The residents would

have preferred 500. What about you? How do you feel? If the residents

are permitted to protest, which they are, and if they do that with

dignity and with respect, then they get their message across and it

does not matter if it is 150 or 500, they get that message across.

Parades Commission got the right decision? I don't say that, but I

think the decision was weak in relation to a number of issues.

said the numbers don't matter and therefore, if the Parades

Commission have restricted numbers, it does not matter? Let's look at

the overall decision. Let us see what the Parades Commission decides

on 25th August. What they decided was that there should be no music.

That they should simply be the beating of the drum. Tonight, they

say there should be music. OK, sacred music. Nonetheless, that is

a retreat from the previous position. And that obviously has an

adverse impact on opinion within Carrick Hill. You are offended by

hens? I am not and nobody else's. - - hymns. We have seen them we have

seen them being abused in the past and the words have been changed and

they used them in a sectarian fashion. Lots of people want to

speak and if you want to contact us at home, the details are coming up

on screen. Was that Irvine has explicitly said that supporters

should stay away. Would you call upon fellow loyalists to stay away?

Let's go back to the facts. I have listened to both Gerry and Alban

Maginness and they are entitled to their views but the fact is, the

issue is centred around the complaint that was put to the

Parades Commission on the top that light. A and well rehearsed? --

Father Michael Sheehan offered quiet conversations off stage. The

Unionist community responded positively to those discussions.

The Parades Commission made a determination. I do not get why we

are having this around Carrick Hill residents. Because they care.

fact is that Father Michael Sheehan offered the chairperson. That is

not an opinion, that is a fact. This is important. It is Wednesday

night, ahead of Saturday, there has been a legal ruling. Do you call on

fellow loyalists to stay away and abide by the decision? You need to

go back. Do not go back, answer it. Show some respect. I am being

respectful. This is a direct and important question. Let me begin

the sentence. The fact is we are sitting here, coming up to the 100

anniversary of one of the most important dates for Unionism and

for people to say that this is just another parade, it is ignoring the

significance. This is not about anybody wanting to go out.

Celebrating away from Strait of Hormuz? This is going to wear the -

- Donegall Street. This is going to wear it originated. I will urge

people to go out and Mark that important day, that is where they

need to be. A will you tell them to abide by the decision? They need to

go and enjoy the day. That is a matter for them. It is not. You are

influential. This is the problem. I will ask it again. Will you tell

fellow loyalists, because you are in an influential position, to

abide by the decision? Fellow loyalists? They are not Unionists.

Define them as you want. You should do that accurately. How would you

like me to define and? As Unionists. Would you call on them to stay

away? To abide by the decision? think people should go into the

city centre, to the City Hall, and enjoy the festivities. That part of

the route in question is very clear. My understanding is the Parades

Commission has kept out of it, because there was common ground

found between the Orange Institution and the congregation of

St Patrick's. There is common ground. Let's not sit here in front

of an audience and say the Parades Commission kept out of this. You

hate the Parades Commission so much... You forced the residents to

go to the Parades Commission for a determination. You are sitting here

trying to say... You take no responsibility? Let him reply.

Twelfth of July there was a huge crowds standing in Donegall Street

and the area of Carrick Hill and sectarian abuse was thrown at a

Orangemen as they went to go off for Twelfth of July and people were

spat at and there was a verbal abuse. People from loyalist,

working-class areas, they have been telephoning on the radio show and

complaining that they reckon they are getting a raw deal. A few days

ago, I went to talk to them myself. I need to warn you there is strong

language in this. Another summer gone wrong. Republican rioting

after the 12th, and loyalist rioting this month. Now, the

marching season is heading into extra time and loyalists say the

problems go deeper than what we see on the street. They are frustrated

with people like me and say that the media does not listen and the

loyalist message is not being heard, they say the Unionist message has

been twisted. There is anger which is getting worse. It is important

to get into the heart of the loyalist communities and find out

what is going on. Blood and thunder brought to you by the pride of this

flute band. They are in the middle of what has been happening. Their

12th parade has been the centre of attention for years and recently

they were among ands that defied the ban on music outside St

Patrick's. They will be out on Saturday and live right in the

community. What is the anger about? And we reckon our culture is

getting thrown down the drain by the so-called Parades Commission. A

Protestant culture is being eaten away. The stupid Parades Commission,

that is where the anger is directed. We can go on about the decision,

what you have told me is that there is a deeper anger within the

community. You feel the media is against you. We know the media is

against us. It's is against our culture and religion. It has been

like that for years. With that in mind, we have been slated. People

like yourself. People like me and others whom live and work in the

community. No matter what we say, even what I say now, maybe twisted

and turned so it sounds different on the television. Do you think

people like me get up in the morning and walk out of their house

thinking I am going to do in the Protestant community? That is not

what I am saying. I am saying the media bandwagon has gone on for

years. They are good at it. The republican movement. Sinn Fein and

every chance they get, they put us down. I spent one woman on the

radio show. She lived on the Shankill. She thinks Protestants

are being discriminated against in terms of housing and education.

when will there be regeneration? They are pumping millions and

millions for what? That is our anger. Where is the money going?

Why is it not coming to loyalist, potters and areas. Has devolution

made it better? Stormont is a joke. Some of the younger ones here, are

many of you without jobs? Lexy. No job? Have you been trying to get

work? For two years. Painting and decorating. What impact does it

have on you? It is terrible. The EC friends with no work? It is a

disgrace, big time. They have let the community down and the people

in the community, big time. What will move things for the better?

What do you want? We want to live in peace. We want our culture and

rights to be respected, that they promised us. Equality, which we are

not getting because we are being treated badly. The anger in some of

the loyalist communities, it is bad. It is really bad. We are on the

front line, as a band. We can feel it. A police officer said the

majority of attacks on police came from within the Protestant

community. That is wrong. Why with age so that? -- say that? In a few

think about what you are saying, the media is against you, the

police is against you, the Parades Commission is against you, I tell

you what... What does the media show? What the Protestants are

doing. The police are scared of them and the Parades Commission,

plain and simple. The nice approach, to keep the peace process going,

they are winning that way. You say if things do not improve, what are

we sitting on? The Protestant community, you are sitting on a

powder keg. What happened in Clifton Street, the first eruption,

I would say. If things keep going the way they are going on, nobody

wants to see violence, I do not want to see these young lads here

in prison or anywhere else. But we have to have equality. They are

talking about the quality and shared space and that is what we

want. -- Equality. Some of you will agree and some

will not. There is a strength of feeling. Lee Reynolds, are they

right? When they say they are hard done by and nobody is listening,

are they right to be angry? Is there a conspiracy? There are

significant issues about Parades Commission decisions and media

treatment of this important issue. As regards employment and education,

there is work on going but more needs to be done. They say Stormont

is a joke. It is your party. Should you not be making them by into

politics? We have not got them bought into politics, but we are

not failing them. We know what the issues are. I live there. Some of

those people are my neighbours. They are not listening. They feel

abandoned. They do not feel they can align themselves to any

political party. I live among them and what I hear in the film... We

could give up and walk away, but we must convince them there is a

better way and we have to try to deliver things and have a better

solution. We have to have better education, deliver housing. Keeping

Stormont alive is not enough, delivery is more. DUP began as a

working-class party and has the largest segment of support from the

working class. It is not there to abandon the people who made it.

on a paranoid? Are they right in some of the things they are saying?

I was looking at statistics. A report from 20th February 12,

Community Relations Council, the share in Catholics of low income

households, 26%. For Protestants, 16%. Catholics are worse off. And

to listen to them, they feel they This is recognised as being in the

worst 10% so these people are genuinely face serious social

neglect. Are they entitled to feel that they can complain more than

their Catholic neighbours? What issues are parades and identity?

housing? I can give you one example. Glenbryn housing, the regeneration

scheme began 12 years ago and then knocked down 160 homes and were

promised by the Housing Executive to build 100 and the only build 35.

The developer has gone bankrupt and we have been left with and I saw it

in a community that saps confidence and goodwill. There are loads of

people at home wanted to get in touch. Pick up the phone and the

details will be on the screen. Hello, Margaret. Hello. What do you

think? I am absolutely disgusted at you, asking, are you going to stop

the loyalists? You ask the loyalists, are you going to stock -

- stop them from walking down Donegall Street. What I said was, I

was asking if the Parades Commission determination is asking

Winston to tell people to abide by the legal determination? If I was a

Unionist and I wanted to walk down that day, not because of the band

on the parade, I am British and I think that is disgusting to ask

anybody to do that. Do you believe in the law? Yes, I do. That is what

is wrong, we do believe in the law. And furthermore, the people from

Carrick Hill don't even live in that part of the road. It is

exactly the same when it all started off in Ardoyne and

thousands of nationalists appeared from I don't know where. I do

wonder where this all gets us? And everybody is entitled to their

opinion... But, listen. There are families in the future and there is

education and health and we're not putting enough resources into this,

why, because we are talking about this. When will we get past this?

am going to say, do you know what there is in Northern Ireland? We

are the wrong sort of people, being unionist. Because everything is

given to the nationalist community. Chris Donnelly is in the studio.

Where are you? You are from the Slugger O'Toole website. What I

would say is what I would also say to those lads in a video clip and

my heart goes out to people who cannot get a job and the position

therein is similar to the position in Ardoyne and other areas. You

alluded to the north there are statistics producing figures

regularly to do with deprivation which show that across every

indicator of deprivation, from housing to income to employment and

education opportunities, the areas that feature most predominantly are

Catholic. So the idea that these young lads, particularly the ones

featured in that the deal, and some others and Margaret as well, that

believe in this notion that if they look over the peace wall, this is

some chagrin at Garden of Eden that nationalists are living in, that is

nonsense. It would be preferable if people like Winston and Lee, who is

intelligent, and he has pointed out he is -- pointed this out with

Glenbryn, these important issues regarding housing in North Belfast,

which is a chronic issue for nationalists also, it would be

preferable... Do you want to talk about that? Margaret? No, thank

you! You can call me on the radio tomorrow morning! I will be

dreaming about you tomorrow night. Can I finish with one thing...

you are as bad as my mother! Winston? There is no doubt that

they are deprived communities and areas across Northern Ireland and

nobody denies the fact that the empty plates in the republican

household is the same empty plate within the Unionist household. The

point here is that that disadvantaged situation that those

young fellows find themselves saying is compounded by the fact

that their sense of identity is being challenged and is being

agitated against and there is a very political, aggressive tactic

within the nationalist republican politic to attack anything that

symbolises or in any way represents any form of Britishness or the

Orange Order. Where are we going? Yes, Sir. Hello. I am an Irish man.

I am also an Orangeman. I am not north or south or anything. I am an

Orangeman. And I cannot go and see that parade because of this order

granted that no supporters can go. The Parades Commission would not

have had to make any determination if the politicians could have

sorted this out between them. could the politicians not sort this

out? The people... At why should the people who you employ and pay

for, why should they sorted out? Why should they? It is the people

on the streets, these cheap communities, they have been stuck

together... The lady with a white T-shirt. A few weeks ago I was

trying to get into Belfast city centre on a Sunday because of

Carlisle Circus blocking my car. The police were there and they did

nothing. My opinion of culture is about celebrating and not enforcing

identity. Why was that allowed to happen? And the lady with the large

top. Where is the piece. What they're trying to do is a squeeze

the Orangemen so they cannot walk anywhere. What does it matter? Why

can't they put more money end to make it more... People come here to

look at our murals. Why tell people how many of them can go to parades?

That will never go away. And they talk about changing... Speak to

that lady. In my opinion, nationalists and republicans are

not trying to do what has been suggested. What nationalists and

republicans want is simply respect for their communities by the Orange

Order. I went to the Orange Order. They are not getting respect. That

is the point. I have seen sectarianism that was given by the

bands and the supporters from the Royal Black Preceptory. It was

sickening. But there is frustration. You might say frustration but that

isn't the way to behave publicly and that isn't the way to deal with

your Catholic, nationalist neighbours. You should show them

respect. And they would get respect if they let them do what they have

done for hundreds of years and walk. Why just not that than have a

peaceful parade? Thomas? Picking up on what Alban Maginness said, about

respect, it is about respecting each other's cultures. History and

heritage. At the end of the day, this band... I think the majority

of this audience actually were nodding. Respecting each other's

cultures? How come we cannot do that? I'll give you some respect.

The band were offended people and apologised and the Black Preceptory

offended people and apologised. I was shot at in Newry with the

Apprentice Boys and I have had petrol bombs thrown at me. Hour

Orange Lodge had to move to the Crumlin Road, which was burnt out.

Why has nobody apologised to us? Why is it always asked it has to

make the first moves? Why have abided by the Parades Commission

for years walking past Ardoyne. And all they do is good punished.

Kelly? First of all, I listened to the programme that she made, that

shored up, and one of the difficulties and have, because you

will find the same problems in nationalist working-class areas...

There is no doubt that I could have gone out and made a very similar

fell on the national side. That is right and the difficulty is,

whether the brain is on the politicians or and the government

departments or on the Parades Commission or the media, the fact

is the protests have gone against their neighbours. 350 people came

out to protest on the peaceline, on the interface. Why blame your

neighbour? Hold on... You watch that film. You will have noticed in

that film, one of the disturbing things for me, even the people who

said, we don't want violence, they said that they were left with an

notion that violence pays. Right? Now... You are a former bomber and

you are now in politics. People think, does violence pay? Well, you

either... Answer those young men correctly. You either have a

mandate or you don't. You might have lots of used about me and my

past and I accept that. I have my view of that and others have their

own view of that. But what I did was a went to the electorate and I

said, this is my past, there is nothing hidden, this is what I want

to do, and we are in the peace process, we have gone through a lot

of conflict and you want to make a better future. And people have

elected me to do that. Whatever you think about past, and I represent

people. That is about you, what you say to the young men who think

violence pays? What to say to them? We must give them a clear message

that it does not. An elected representative represents all those

people who voted for them. You have to a bit -- you have to respect

those people. Never mind me. There is a matter of respect. Gerry Kelly

stayed there with a piece a protest beside me and be what 100 yards

past them and dissident republicans were throwing petrol bombs at us.

Where do we go? This anger, when I went up to that hall, it was

palpable. We do not concede that some of that is self-inflicted by

the loyalist paramilitaries? The gangsters and the drug taking and

the drug dealing and the racketeering? I don't even know if

it's done us, but it was there. Is there no responsibility on the

paramilitaries? You have just confirmed what many people have

been saying for the last number of months. You have a particular

mindset, and that is a mindset which is in bed and within this

conflict frame of reference when referring to Unionist communities.

You categorise these committees as loyalist and you then extent that...

Are you embarrassed by being loyalist? Absolutely not but I am

unashamedly a loyal Unionist and I wish for you to refer to me as so.

Not only are you demonising me when you categorise me, you're

demonising entire communities. This is important. This is why the young

people in that video clip feel that the media portray them in a very

unfair way because you are automatically pigeonhole them as a

loyalist Committee Ulster -- community. That is utter rubbish

and that is absurd. The fact that those young people expressed at raw

a motion does not have to be manufactured. There are real issues

and they are real people. It is nothing to do with any legacy of

loyalist paramilitaries. By the way, these are people we're talking

about. They are not sub-human when you talk about loyalists. They are

people. They are not something that You listen to me now. You have just

spoken to me and I want to sweep back. This is not a script -- speed

back. See the people in that community? There are many decent

people. Our community... They are the salt of the Earth. This is a

valid question. It is about standing up to having this

community vilified. What impact have loyalist paramilitaries had on

that community? Numb. Loyalism has been a force for good. -- non-.

During this process, it has been a force for good. Who brought about

ceasefires? Who helped it to form the political negotiations and

brought about the peace agreement? Do you think that happened by

accident? What is the next stage for those people from within your

community who feel that they... And that there is not a sense of

optimism? The saddest question for any is when I asked how many people

do not have a job and the hands went up. I thought, how much of a

chance do they have? How much support are they getting from

Stormont on both sides? How much support our working-class kids

getting who need a lift up? That is why I get frustrated when we spend

so much time on parades. It is important, but, what about their

lives? I get frustrated because we have not been able to move beyond

the situation of imbalance. We need to move the situation beyond

tolerating communities. This is what I say to all the communities

listening to this programme. If you want pick up the telephone on Radio

tomorrow, you will be welcome. You will have the details coming up on

the screen. Ladies and gentlemen, please thank our guests.

There is a campaign to ban Page Three from the Sun newspaper. These

ladies disagree. That is coming up. It is four weeks since the

motorcyclist Trevor Ferguson was killed while competing at the Manx

Grand Prix. The 48-year-old from County Tyrone was married with

children. His nephew, Ryan Farquhar, he has announced his retirement

from the sport. Please welcome Ryan Farquhar. There is tragedy through

this story and you were there on that day when he died. I was, I

took part in the 500 classic race on the Wednesday morning. I had two

bikes running in the race in the afternoon. Trevor was riding. He

was riding one and another rider was riding the other by guy owned.

The day got off to a perfect start and I won the race. I hoped that

Nigel and Trevor could get on the podium and it got off to a good

start until the second lap. Was it on that day that you decided that

is it? Did you need time to think about it? Was it instinctive?

Whenever we are told... When we were told, the term they used when

they told us that he had been involved in a serious incident and

he had not made it. It was the shock. At that stage I had not

thought about my own race, I just saw the devastation it caused, with

Trevor's wife and children. My grandfather. It taught us apart. --

tore us apart. Are you all right? Then you quickly decided you could

not do that your family. Anybody involved in road racing, it is a

way of life. Ie liked it so much and got so much pleasure from road

racing, it was something I never thought would happen to me. And

when I saw how it could happen to one of the safest people to ride a

bike on the open roads, it brought it home to me. There are so many

things I have not done with my family, because I was so caught up,

it was seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year this past number of

years and there are so many things I want to do with the family I

thought it was time to knock it on my head. I still love road racing.

Those lovely children, was that the determining factor? There is no

doubt about that. I am married and my wife has supported me. I have

been racing longer than my wife has known me and she knows what it is

all about. It has become part of her life. Was there a sense of

relief when you said that is it? There is a massive weight lifted

off my shoulders, purely because there is no pressure any more.

Whenever you are racing bikes for a living, you have to go out and win,

do well, to get prize money to pay the bills. The pressure from that

has gone. Do you miss it? I will miss it. I will definitely miss the

adrenalin rush. I hope that long term I can stay within the sport

and help possibly upcoming riders and try to make it safer for them,

through information, should it be on track knowledge, whatever, but

when it is in your blood, you never get away from it, but I definitely

will miss the adrenalin rush. are still running a racing team?

Can I ask you a difficult question? I want to understand this. You are

basically saying when you look at your children the risk is not worth

it. If you are running a racing team, you are facilitating other

people to do it, and to take that risk that you are not. I have done

it for years and I am in a position to call it a day. It is a dangerous

sport. Every rider knows the dangers. There are young lads out

there, they are keen to get at it and they know the risks. Today

really understand the risks? You have had a personal tragedy. They

have not. I will put it a different way. We saw your children. If your

child said they wanted to take up racing, what would you say? I would

try to support them as best I could. Would you try to put them off?

Possibly, but if they were determined, I would be 100% behind

them. I would try to make it as safe for them as possible. I have

experience. I know how bikes need to be prepared. I know what safety

improvements can be made. Road racing is going through a difficult

time because of the lack of sponsorship. There is a recession.

There are lads out there and there is nothing else in their head but

to go out road racing. If I am in a position to run a team, I would

like to help them to make it as safe as possible. I have a sense

from you that it is in your blood. I can see that dilemma. It is my

life and has been since I left school. My two girls, and Karen...

The I want to thank Karen for coming into night and Ladies and

Gentlemen, Ryan Farquhar. If you want to contact us you can do so in

want to contact us you can do so in Next, Page Three of the Sun

newspaper has been a fixture since 1970. Calls for a ban on the top

has spread is gathering momentum. 36,000 people have signed a

petition to ask the edited to stop it. A senior politician in the

coalition claimed topless pictures can lead to domestic violence. We

are joined by a glamour model. New were a number model. And we are

joined by a feminist comedian. What do you think? I think it is absurd.

The arguments being put forward by how it causes domestic abuse and

sexual abuse, there is no scientific statistics to back it up.

You said you did it not for the money. My career choice, not for

money. One aide do it if not for money? The cars it is a -- because

it is a career I enjoy. Do you do your job for money? Yes. Do you?

And I enjoy it and I love the BBC! You cannot be a millionaire in this

industry, there is not that much money you have to do it for other

reasons. You are misquoting the politician who is saying Page Three

is part of a culture of sexism and there is a problem with sexism with

two women a week being killed by their partner or former partner.

There is a shortage of women in business and politics. What is

driving that? One thing is the attitude that seems pervasive in

society that men are valued for their business skills, brains,

sporting ability, but women are valued for what they look like. We

have a national newspaper and inside the front cover is a picture

of a half-naked woman. It pushes that idea. It is one thing if the

picture is on the top shelf, it is not, it is right there. It is not

explicit material. You have to understand it is not really a

newspaper. It is like a celebrity gossip magazine. They have items

about footballers and who they are sleeping with. There is no

intellectual value. If it were the dark newspaper, and you were

reading about world economics, it would not be compatible. But this

is a tabloid and anything goes. former editor of the Daily Mirror

is joining us. You used to choose their own number gulls. I did, yes.

-- Page Three girls. I worked for the Sun newspaper in a previous

life before I edited the Daily Mirror. The last job as night

editor was to pick the Page Three girl for the following day. As I

put my coat on and drank my cold cup of tea before leaving for home,

I would go through the pictures. I know it sounds like a dream life,

but it was not! Is it right? Now you have grown older? I am old and

finished now. I need page 3 to spice me up! In it right? It is not

right. I would like to see it finished. But we should not have a

ban. What about putting it on the top shelf, with that solve the

problem? There is a young man at the back. Do you not think when you

say it is a gossip newspaper, and you are in it, which means that

your worthless? You are making a leap. D not think it is making a

mark out if you? -- mug. I say there is anything in it. You can

have a human in a nude form. Is it OK to be in a newspaper, yes it is.

If I try to do it myself, would there be a problem? Why do women

get away with it? Or on second, we have some body hair. Very quickly.

From a -- somebody here. I would not want my daughter looking at

those pictures and growing up to think it is normal. I have respect

for somebody coming to put her point forward. There are other

images that are more concerning and more harmful. Images of famine,

mutilation. That is a ridiculous point. It is like saying I should

be allowed to beat my wife because the man next door stabbed his! That

man made a brilliant buoy, young people cannot help being exposed to

this. -- point. It is a mainstream newspaper. If you want to see these

images, there are magazines. This is what we will do tonight. We are