Episode 1 The Nolan Show


Episode 1

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Hello and welcome to The Nolan Show. I'll be live on the BBC? A YES! --

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are we live. That was absolutely awful. I told you to roar that. You

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are very welcome. On the programme we grab the big news stories and

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you will give you a platform. And at home. This is what is coming up

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tonight. Thousands on the march this weekend for the big Ulster

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Covenant parade but are we any closer to reaching agreement on

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contentious parades? For God and Ulster, I going to the heart of

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loyalist Belfast and they don't hold back. What are we sitting on?

:01:04.:01:12.

The Protestant community, you are sitting on a powder keg. The most

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successful rider in the history of Irish road-racing but Ryan Farquhar

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says family tragedy and the love of his daughter means he is hanging up

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the helmet for good. And it has been a national institution for

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over 40 years but has page 3 had its day? Northern Ireland's only

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Thank you for joining us. We take the big stories and we provide a

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platform and hammer them out. Here Up to 30,000 Unionists will be on

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the march this Saturday to mark one of the most important days in their

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history. The Ulster Covenant parade will proceed through central

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Belfast on its way to the City Hall and at Stormont. But it's the march

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going past St Patrick's church that has attracted headlines. The

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Parades Commission says only hens can be played as the band Patches -

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- passes the church with no Moyola supporters accompanying the march.

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It says no more than 150 people can take part in the nationalist

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counter protest. Let's get reaction. Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly and

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Councillor Lee Reynolds for the DUP and the SDLP's Alban Maginness and

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Winston Irvine of the North and West Belfast Parades Forum. Gerry

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Kelly, we are days away from the parade and this is a time for

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leadership. Do you call on Europe humidity and the Carrick Hill

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residents to abide by that determination? I'd do but I do not

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have to. You've heard Frank Dempsey, who is from the residents' group,

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and he said there had been determinations that while he was

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very disappointed and part of the determination they would add here

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too. Yes, but I do not think this Ms it because I think people have

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spoken. A what do you think? residents have said that they want

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respect and they talk about mutual respect and I have heard this from

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both sides. How you define that and what it means, surely in the first

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instance it means people sitting down face to face and talking this

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out. That has not happened and 100 and put the people isn't that much

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different than 500 people? will... When it comes down to it?

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150 is what the determination is. And they will adhere to that. On

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the day. I believe, anyway. And everybody wants this to be peaceful.

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We must realise that this has not resolved the issue, you said this

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had to do with St Patrick's Church but what happened with this century

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manifestation was only a manifestation of what had happened

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in Carrick Hill because you keep talking about Saint Patrick's but

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the determination goes from the law -- the Orange Lodge down and what

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happened at St Patrick's Church is that people have been through this

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and I have witnessed this with many parades. Gerry Kelly was talking

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and they have been saying this, there should be direct talks

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between the Orange Order and residents. Should there be? There

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was the offer of dialogue between the Orange Order and the residents.

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The Belfast Orange Order? There were meetings arranged with the

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parish priest and the parishioners and an invitation extended to the

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residents' association. With the caracal residents, face-to-face?

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There chair was invited to come to the meeting. Why did that not

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happen? Well, I was not involved in these discussions and the priest

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said he did not want to enter into the confidential and a bit --

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confidentiality of that. Let me explain this, if the offer is to

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talk to residents, they tell me that they are prepared to talk so

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let us have these talks. We can argue about a few days ago, is

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there any offer to top? If there is, I can tell you that the residents

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are ready to talk so let us talk. What time? I don't do. You have

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been involved? You have been talking to the Orange Order? I have

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been working closely with the Orange Order to win sure that we

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have peaceful and dignified parades on Saturday. The advice is to meet

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face-to-face? My advice is to carry on with what we have got. We have a

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very delicate situation and there was an offer for dialogue and an

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opportunity was missed. Should they top tomorrow? Let's cut to the

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chase. What a breakthrough that would be. Wouldn't it? The offer

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was made by the Orange Order. Should they do this to murder?

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you talk to the Orange Order, they will be happy for that. -- should

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they talk to the Orange Order. For some people, the media would give

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the impression that this issue is the Saint Patrick's but there are

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Brits issues with the opera Ardowen committee over the last 10 years

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and we had been active in the process to try to achieve dialogue

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and agreement on the process and we have narrowly missed very difficult

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situations because of the leadership shown by the Orange

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Order and the community workers in the area. We have subsequently

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followed that up with initiatives are. One of the reasons he wrote a

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letter about the Parades Commission and said there was a problem was

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that we were fully aware of the tension and anger building up and

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we were trying to communicate to people that the politicians knew

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there was a problem and we were trying to find a political solution.

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This young fellow, yes? Why was it only now that this is a problem?

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This route has been lodged on for three years. How old are you?

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years old. You think this should be a priority for Northern Ireland?

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Have you got a job? Do you want a better job? Do you not get

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frustrated? It is my culture. The bands are my culture. And do you

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understand what the other committee thinks? I can understand where

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they're coming from but it is my culture. Why is it that this is a

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problem this year? Why was there nothing last year? It isn't just a

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problem... This was caught on video and it has become a very big issue

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for many people outside of North Belfast. There are over 30 parades

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going past this small republican and nationalist area every year.

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The residents themselves did not want to bring this to the Parades

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Commission because they wanted to get this resolved as an issue with

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police to make sure that braves went down quietly but the sector is

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an got some great... What Septrin has an? I am trying to answer the

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question. What happened this year was it became very obvious, the

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straw that broke the camel's back, and I was there in a for the last

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big parade, the Balmoral March and I saw the sector innocence of the

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sectarianism has been there, bubbling away, and I have been

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talking to police and I said it you do not do something, this will end

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up going to the Parades Commission. The young fellow when the glasses.

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Why is a nationalist parade... The counter protest restricted why it's

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there are 30,000 allowed to march through Belfast? Do you care about

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the restriction for 150? I don't really care about it but the fact

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is, I would like to see more nationalists having their voice

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were not get any say. How do you feel about 150? The residents would

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have preferred 500. What about you? How do you feel? If the residents

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are permitted to protest, which they are, and if they do that with

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dignity and with respect, then they get their message across and it

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does not matter if it is 150 or 500, they get that message across.

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Parades Commission got the right decision? I don't say that, but I

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think the decision was weak in relation to a number of issues.

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said the numbers don't matter and therefore, if the Parades

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Commission have restricted numbers, it does not matter? Let's look at

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the overall decision. Let us see what the Parades Commission decides

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on 25th August. What they decided was that there should be no music.

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That they should simply be the beating of the drum. Tonight, they

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say there should be music. OK, sacred music. Nonetheless, that is

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a retreat from the previous position. And that obviously has an

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adverse impact on opinion within Carrick Hill. You are offended by

:11:07.:11:17.
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hens? I am not and nobody else's. - - hymns. We have seen them we have

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seen them being abused in the past and the words have been changed and

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they used them in a sectarian fashion. Lots of people want to

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speak and if you want to contact us at home, the details are coming up

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on screen. Was that Irvine has explicitly said that supporters

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should stay away. Would you call upon fellow loyalists to stay away?

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Let's go back to the facts. I have listened to both Gerry and Alban

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Maginness and they are entitled to their views but the fact is, the

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issue is centred around the complaint that was put to the

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Parades Commission on the top that light. A and well rehearsed? --

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Father Michael Sheehan offered quiet conversations off stage. The

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Unionist community responded positively to those discussions.

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The Parades Commission made a determination. I do not get why we

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are having this around Carrick Hill residents. Because they care.

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fact is that Father Michael Sheehan offered the chairperson. That is

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not an opinion, that is a fact. This is important. It is Wednesday

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night, ahead of Saturday, there has been a legal ruling. Do you call on

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fellow loyalists to stay away and abide by the decision? You need to

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go back. Do not go back, answer it. Show some respect. I am being

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respectful. This is a direct and important question. Let me begin

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the sentence. The fact is we are sitting here, coming up to the 100

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anniversary of one of the most important dates for Unionism and

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for people to say that this is just another parade, it is ignoring the

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significance. This is not about anybody wanting to go out.

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Celebrating away from Strait of Hormuz? This is going to wear the -

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- Donegall Street. This is going to wear it originated. I will urge

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people to go out and Mark that important day, that is where they

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need to be. A will you tell them to abide by the decision? They need to

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go and enjoy the day. That is a matter for them. It is not. You are

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influential. This is the problem. I will ask it again. Will you tell

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fellow loyalists, because you are in an influential position, to

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abide by the decision? Fellow loyalists? They are not Unionists.

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Define them as you want. You should do that accurately. How would you

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like me to define and? As Unionists. Would you call on them to stay

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away? To abide by the decision? think people should go into the

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city centre, to the City Hall, and enjoy the festivities. That part of

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the route in question is very clear. My understanding is the Parades

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Commission has kept out of it, because there was common ground

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found between the Orange Institution and the congregation of

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St Patrick's. There is common ground. Let's not sit here in front

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of an audience and say the Parades Commission kept out of this. You

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hate the Parades Commission so much... You forced the residents to

:16:05.:16:15.
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go to the Parades Commission for a determination. You are sitting here

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trying to say... You take no responsibility? Let him reply.

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Twelfth of July there was a huge crowds standing in Donegall Street

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and the area of Carrick Hill and sectarian abuse was thrown at a

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Orangemen as they went to go off for Twelfth of July and people were

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spat at and there was a verbal abuse. People from loyalist,

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working-class areas, they have been telephoning on the radio show and

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complaining that they reckon they are getting a raw deal. A few days

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ago, I went to talk to them myself. I need to warn you there is strong

:17:16.:17:26.
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language in this. Another summer gone wrong. Republican rioting

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after the 12th, and loyalist rioting this month. Now, the

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marching season is heading into extra time and loyalists say the

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problems go deeper than what we see on the street. They are frustrated

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with people like me and say that the media does not listen and the

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loyalist message is not being heard, they say the Unionist message has

:17:58.:18:03.

been twisted. There is anger which is getting worse. It is important

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to get into the heart of the loyalist communities and find out

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what is going on. Blood and thunder brought to you by the pride of this

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flute band. They are in the middle of what has been happening. Their

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12th parade has been the centre of attention for years and recently

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they were among ands that defied the ban on music outside St

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Patrick's. They will be out on Saturday and live right in the

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community. What is the anger about? And we reckon our culture is

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getting thrown down the drain by the so-called Parades Commission. A

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Protestant culture is being eaten away. The stupid Parades Commission,

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that is where the anger is directed. We can go on about the decision,

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what you have told me is that there is a deeper anger within the

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community. You feel the media is against you. We know the media is

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against us. It's is against our culture and religion. It has been

:19:20.:19:27.

like that for years. With that in mind, we have been slated. People

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like yourself. People like me and others whom live and work in the

:19:33.:19:43.
:19:43.:19:44.

community. No matter what we say, even what I say now, maybe twisted

:19:44.:19:49.

and turned so it sounds different on the television. Do you think

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people like me get up in the morning and walk out of their house

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thinking I am going to do in the Protestant community? That is not

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what I am saying. I am saying the media bandwagon has gone on for

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years. They are good at it. The republican movement. Sinn Fein and

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every chance they get, they put us down. I spent one woman on the

:20:16.:20:22.

radio show. She lived on the Shankill. She thinks Protestants

:20:22.:20:30.

are being discriminated against in terms of housing and education.

:20:30.:20:40.
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when will there be regeneration? They are pumping millions and

:20:40.:20:48.

millions for what? That is our anger. Where is the money going?

:20:48.:20:55.

Why is it not coming to loyalist, potters and areas. Has devolution

:20:55.:21:02.

made it better? Stormont is a joke. Some of the younger ones here, are

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many of you without jobs? Lexy. No job? Have you been trying to get

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work? For two years. Painting and decorating. What impact does it

:21:20.:21:29.
:21:30.:21:30.

have on you? It is terrible. The EC friends with no work? It is a

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disgrace, big time. They have let the community down and the people

:21:35.:21:45.
:21:45.:21:47.

in the community, big time. What will move things for the better?

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What do you want? We want to live in peace. We want our culture and

:21:54.:21:59.

rights to be respected, that they promised us. Equality, which we are

:21:59.:22:09.
:22:09.:22:15.

not getting because we are being treated badly. The anger in some of

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the loyalist communities, it is bad. It is really bad. We are on the

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front line, as a band. We can feel it. A police officer said the

:22:31.:22:33.

majority of attacks on police came from within the Protestant

:22:33.:22:43.
:22:43.:22:53.

community. That is wrong. Why with age so that? -- say that? In a few

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think about what you are saying, the media is against you, the

:22:58.:23:02.

police is against you, the Parades Commission is against you, I tell

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you what... What does the media show? What the Protestants are

:23:09.:23:19.
:23:19.:23:20.

doing. The police are scared of them and the Parades Commission,

:23:20.:23:29.

plain and simple. The nice approach, to keep the peace process going,

:23:29.:23:34.

they are winning that way. You say if things do not improve, what are

:23:34.:23:41.

we sitting on? The Protestant community, you are sitting on a

:23:41.:23:47.

powder keg. What happened in Clifton Street, the first eruption,

:23:48.:23:53.

I would say. If things keep going the way they are going on, nobody

:23:53.:23:57.

wants to see violence, I do not want to see these young lads here

:23:57.:24:04.

in prison or anywhere else. But we have to have equality. They are

:24:04.:24:06.

talking about the quality and shared space and that is what we

:24:06.:24:14.

want. -- Equality. Some of you will agree and some

:24:14.:24:20.

will not. There is a strength of feeling. Lee Reynolds, are they

:24:20.:24:26.

right? When they say they are hard done by and nobody is listening,

:24:26.:24:32.

are they right to be angry? Is there a conspiracy? There are

:24:32.:24:36.

significant issues about Parades Commission decisions and media

:24:36.:24:41.

treatment of this important issue. As regards employment and education,

:24:41.:24:45.

there is work on going but more needs to be done. They say Stormont

:24:45.:24:54.

is a joke. It is your party. Should you not be making them by into

:24:54.:25:01.

politics? We have not got them bought into politics, but we are

:25:01.:25:07.

not failing them. We know what the issues are. I live there. Some of

:25:07.:25:13.

those people are my neighbours. They are not listening. They feel

:25:13.:25:17.

abandoned. They do not feel they can align themselves to any

:25:17.:25:24.

political party. I live among them and what I hear in the film... We

:25:24.:25:29.

could give up and walk away, but we must convince them there is a

:25:29.:25:32.

better way and we have to try to deliver things and have a better

:25:32.:25:42.
:25:42.:25:45.

solution. We have to have better education, deliver housing. Keeping

:25:45.:25:52.

Stormont alive is not enough, delivery is more. DUP began as a

:25:52.:25:56.

working-class party and has the largest segment of support from the

:25:56.:26:00.

working class. It is not there to abandon the people who made it.

:26:00.:26:05.

on a paranoid? Are they right in some of the things they are saying?

:26:05.:26:11.

I was looking at statistics. A report from 20th February 12,

:26:11.:26:16.

Community Relations Council, the share in Catholics of low income

:26:16.:26:22.

households, 26%. For Protestants, 16%. Catholics are worse off. And

:26:22.:26:32.
:26:32.:26:34.

to listen to them, they feel they This is recognised as being in the

:26:34.:26:39.

worst 10% so these people are genuinely face serious social

:26:39.:26:46.

neglect. Are they entitled to feel that they can complain more than

:26:46.:26:51.

their Catholic neighbours? What issues are parades and identity?

:26:51.:26:59.

housing? I can give you one example. Glenbryn housing, the regeneration

:26:59.:27:05.

scheme began 12 years ago and then knocked down 160 homes and were

:27:05.:27:09.

promised by the Housing Executive to build 100 and the only build 35.

:27:09.:27:14.

The developer has gone bankrupt and we have been left with and I saw it

:27:14.:27:18.

in a community that saps confidence and goodwill. There are loads of

:27:18.:27:21.

people at home wanted to get in touch. Pick up the phone and the

:27:21.:27:30.

details will be on the screen. Hello, Margaret. Hello. What do you

:27:31.:27:39.

think? I am absolutely disgusted at you, asking, are you going to stop

:27:39.:27:44.

the loyalists? You ask the loyalists, are you going to stock -

:27:44.:27:49.

- stop them from walking down Donegall Street. What I said was, I

:27:49.:27:53.

was asking if the Parades Commission determination is asking

:27:53.:27:59.

Winston to tell people to abide by the legal determination? If I was a

:27:59.:28:04.

Unionist and I wanted to walk down that day, not because of the band

:28:04.:28:08.

on the parade, I am British and I think that is disgusting to ask

:28:08.:28:16.

anybody to do that. Do you believe in the law? Yes, I do. That is what

:28:16.:28:21.

is wrong, we do believe in the law. And furthermore, the people from

:28:21.:28:24.

Carrick Hill don't even live in that part of the road. It is

:28:24.:28:28.

exactly the same when it all started off in Ardoyne and

:28:28.:28:33.

thousands of nationalists appeared from I don't know where. I do

:28:34.:28:40.

wonder where this all gets us? And everybody is entitled to their

:28:40.:28:47.

opinion... But, listen. There are families in the future and there is

:28:48.:28:51.

education and health and we're not putting enough resources into this,

:28:51.:28:57.

why, because we are talking about this. When will we get past this?

:28:57.:29:01.

am going to say, do you know what there is in Northern Ireland? We

:29:01.:29:07.

are the wrong sort of people, being unionist. Because everything is

:29:07.:29:13.

given to the nationalist community. Chris Donnelly is in the studio.

:29:13.:29:22.

Where are you? You are from the Slugger O'Toole website. What I

:29:22.:29:26.

would say is what I would also say to those lads in a video clip and

:29:26.:29:30.

my heart goes out to people who cannot get a job and the position

:29:30.:29:36.

therein is similar to the position in Ardoyne and other areas. You

:29:36.:29:40.

alluded to the north there are statistics producing figures

:29:40.:29:45.

regularly to do with deprivation which show that across every

:29:45.:29:49.

indicator of deprivation, from housing to income to employment and

:29:49.:29:54.

education opportunities, the areas that feature most predominantly are

:29:54.:30:00.

Catholic. So the idea that these young lads, particularly the ones

:30:00.:30:05.

featured in that the deal, and some others and Margaret as well, that

:30:05.:30:09.

believe in this notion that if they look over the peace wall, this is

:30:10.:30:13.

some chagrin at Garden of Eden that nationalists are living in, that is

:30:13.:30:19.

nonsense. It would be preferable if people like Winston and Lee, who is

:30:19.:30:26.

intelligent, and he has pointed out he is -- pointed this out with

:30:26.:30:30.

Glenbryn, these important issues regarding housing in North Belfast,

:30:30.:30:34.

which is a chronic issue for nationalists also, it would be

:30:34.:30:40.

preferable... Do you want to talk about that? Margaret? No, thank

:30:40.:30:50.
:30:50.:30:53.

you! You can call me on the radio tomorrow morning! I will be

:30:53.:30:57.

dreaming about you tomorrow night. Can I finish with one thing...

:30:57.:31:03.

you are as bad as my mother! Winston? There is no doubt that

:31:03.:31:08.

they are deprived communities and areas across Northern Ireland and

:31:08.:31:14.

nobody denies the fact that the empty plates in the republican

:31:14.:31:19.

household is the same empty plate within the Unionist household. The

:31:19.:31:25.

point here is that that disadvantaged situation that those

:31:25.:31:30.

young fellows find themselves saying is compounded by the fact

:31:30.:31:36.

that their sense of identity is being challenged and is being

:31:36.:31:42.

agitated against and there is a very political, aggressive tactic

:31:42.:31:48.

within the nationalist republican politic to attack anything that

:31:48.:31:51.

symbolises or in any way represents any form of Britishness or the

:31:51.:32:01.
:32:01.:32:02.

Orange Order. Where are we going? Yes, Sir. Hello. I am an Irish man.

:32:02.:32:09.

I am also an Orangeman. I am not north or south or anything. I am an

:32:09.:32:17.

Orangeman. And I cannot go and see that parade because of this order

:32:17.:32:21.

granted that no supporters can go. The Parades Commission would not

:32:21.:32:24.

have had to make any determination if the politicians could have

:32:24.:32:33.

sorted this out between them. could the politicians not sort this

:32:33.:32:37.

out? The people... At why should the people who you employ and pay

:32:37.:32:42.

for, why should they sorted out? Why should they? It is the people

:32:43.:32:51.

on the streets, these cheap communities, they have been stuck

:32:51.:33:01.
:33:01.:33:01.

together... The lady with a white T-shirt. A few weeks ago I was

:33:01.:33:05.

trying to get into Belfast city centre on a Sunday because of

:33:05.:33:09.

Carlisle Circus blocking my car. The police were there and they did

:33:09.:33:16.

nothing. My opinion of culture is about celebrating and not enforcing

:33:16.:33:22.

identity. Why was that allowed to happen? And the lady with the large

:33:22.:33:32.

top. Where is the piece. What they're trying to do is a squeeze

:33:32.:33:36.

the Orangemen so they cannot walk anywhere. What does it matter? Why

:33:36.:33:40.

can't they put more money end to make it more... People come here to

:33:41.:33:50.

look at our murals. Why tell people how many of them can go to parades?

:33:50.:33:55.

That will never go away. And they talk about changing... Speak to

:33:55.:34:00.

that lady. In my opinion, nationalists and republicans are

:34:00.:34:04.

not trying to do what has been suggested. What nationalists and

:34:04.:34:09.

republicans want is simply respect for their communities by the Orange

:34:09.:34:15.

Order. I went to the Orange Order. They are not getting respect. That

:34:15.:34:25.
:34:25.:34:26.

is the point. I have seen sectarianism that was given by the

:34:26.:34:29.

bands and the supporters from the Royal Black Preceptory. It was

:34:29.:34:37.

sickening. But there is frustration. You might say frustration but that

:34:37.:34:40.

isn't the way to behave publicly and that isn't the way to deal with

:34:41.:34:44.

your Catholic, nationalist neighbours. You should show them

:34:44.:34:48.

respect. And they would get respect if they let them do what they have

:34:48.:34:54.

done for hundreds of years and walk. Why just not that than have a

:34:54.:34:59.

peaceful parade? Thomas? Picking up on what Alban Maginness said, about

:34:59.:35:04.

respect, it is about respecting each other's cultures. History and

:35:04.:35:09.

heritage. At the end of the day, this band... I think the majority

:35:09.:35:15.

of this audience actually were nodding. Respecting each other's

:35:15.:35:24.

cultures? How come we cannot do that? I'll give you some respect.

:35:24.:35:28.

The band were offended people and apologised and the Black Preceptory

:35:28.:35:33.

offended people and apologised. I was shot at in Newry with the

:35:33.:35:37.

Apprentice Boys and I have had petrol bombs thrown at me. Hour

:35:37.:35:41.

Orange Lodge had to move to the Crumlin Road, which was burnt out.

:35:41.:35:47.

Why has nobody apologised to us? Why is it always asked it has to

:35:47.:35:51.

make the first moves? Why have abided by the Parades Commission

:35:51.:35:56.

for years walking past Ardoyne. And all they do is good punished.

:35:56.:36:04.

Kelly? First of all, I listened to the programme that she made, that

:36:04.:36:09.

shored up, and one of the difficulties and have, because you

:36:09.:36:13.

will find the same problems in nationalist working-class areas...

:36:13.:36:20.

There is no doubt that I could have gone out and made a very similar

:36:20.:36:25.

fell on the national side. That is right and the difficulty is,

:36:25.:36:29.

whether the brain is on the politicians or and the government

:36:29.:36:33.

departments or on the Parades Commission or the media, the fact

:36:33.:36:40.

is the protests have gone against their neighbours. 350 people came

:36:40.:36:47.

out to protest on the peaceline, on the interface. Why blame your

:36:47.:36:54.

neighbour? Hold on... You watch that film. You will have noticed in

:36:54.:36:59.

that film, one of the disturbing things for me, even the people who

:36:59.:37:04.

said, we don't want violence, they said that they were left with an

:37:04.:37:14.
:37:14.:37:17.

notion that violence pays. Right? Now... You are a former bomber and

:37:17.:37:27.
:37:27.:37:29.

you are now in politics. People think, does violence pay? Well, you

:37:29.:37:33.

either... Answer those young men correctly. You either have a

:37:33.:37:37.

mandate or you don't. You might have lots of used about me and my

:37:37.:37:41.

past and I accept that. I have my view of that and others have their

:37:42.:37:46.

own view of that. But what I did was a went to the electorate and I

:37:46.:37:50.

said, this is my past, there is nothing hidden, this is what I want

:37:50.:37:54.

to do, and we are in the peace process, we have gone through a lot

:37:54.:37:57.

of conflict and you want to make a better future. And people have

:37:57.:38:02.

elected me to do that. Whatever you think about past, and I represent

:38:02.:38:07.

people. That is about you, what you say to the young men who think

:38:07.:38:11.

violence pays? What to say to them? We must give them a clear message

:38:11.:38:17.

that it does not. An elected representative represents all those

:38:17.:38:22.

people who voted for them. You have to a bit -- you have to respect

:38:22.:38:30.

those people. Never mind me. There is a matter of respect. Gerry Kelly

:38:30.:38:35.

stayed there with a piece a protest beside me and be what 100 yards

:38:35.:38:39.

past them and dissident republicans were throwing petrol bombs at us.

:38:39.:38:48.

Where do we go? This anger, when I went up to that hall, it was

:38:48.:38:54.

palpable. We do not concede that some of that is self-inflicted by

:38:55.:39:00.

the loyalist paramilitaries? The gangsters and the drug taking and

:39:00.:39:07.

the drug dealing and the racketeering? I don't even know if

:39:07.:39:11.

it's done us, but it was there. Is there no responsibility on the

:39:11.:39:15.

paramilitaries? You have just confirmed what many people have

:39:15.:39:23.

been saying for the last number of months. You have a particular

:39:23.:39:29.

mindset, and that is a mindset which is in bed and within this

:39:29.:39:35.

conflict frame of reference when referring to Unionist communities.

:39:35.:39:41.

You categorise these committees as loyalist and you then extent that...

:39:41.:39:49.

Are you embarrassed by being loyalist? Absolutely not but I am

:39:49.:39:53.

unashamedly a loyal Unionist and I wish for you to refer to me as so.

:39:53.:39:58.

Not only are you demonising me when you categorise me, you're

:39:58.:40:03.

demonising entire communities. This is important. This is why the young

:40:03.:40:07.

people in that video clip feel that the media portray them in a very

:40:07.:40:12.

unfair way because you are automatically pigeonhole them as a

:40:12.:40:22.
:40:22.:40:25.

loyalist Committee Ulster -- community. That is utter rubbish

:40:25.:40:30.

and that is absurd. The fact that those young people expressed at raw

:40:30.:40:33.

a motion does not have to be manufactured. There are real issues

:40:33.:40:37.

and they are real people. It is nothing to do with any legacy of

:40:37.:40:44.

loyalist paramilitaries. By the way, these are people we're talking

:40:44.:40:49.

about. They are not sub-human when you talk about loyalists. They are

:40:49.:40:59.
:40:59.:41:02.

people. They are not something that You listen to me now. You have just

:41:03.:41:10.

spoken to me and I want to sweep back. This is not a script -- speed

:41:10.:41:15.

back. See the people in that community? There are many decent

:41:15.:41:25.
:41:25.:41:34.

people. Our community... They are the salt of the Earth. This is a

:41:34.:41:40.

valid question. It is about standing up to having this

:41:40.:41:47.

community vilified. What impact have loyalist paramilitaries had on

:41:47.:41:57.
:41:57.:41:59.

that community? Numb. Loyalism has been a force for good. -- non-.

:41:59.:42:05.

During this process, it has been a force for good. Who brought about

:42:05.:42:10.

ceasefires? Who helped it to form the political negotiations and

:42:10.:42:13.

brought about the peace agreement? Do you think that happened by

:42:13.:42:19.

accident? What is the next stage for those people from within your

:42:19.:42:24.

community who feel that they... And that there is not a sense of

:42:24.:42:34.
:42:34.:42:34.

optimism? The saddest question for any is when I asked how many people

:42:34.:42:39.

do not have a job and the hands went up. I thought, how much of a

:42:39.:42:44.

chance do they have? How much support are they getting from

:42:44.:42:49.

Stormont on both sides? How much support our working-class kids

:42:49.:42:54.

getting who need a lift up? That is why I get frustrated when we spend

:42:54.:42:59.

so much time on parades. It is important, but, what about their

:42:59.:43:06.

lives? I get frustrated because we have not been able to move beyond

:43:06.:43:14.

the situation of imbalance. We need to move the situation beyond

:43:14.:43:20.

tolerating communities. This is what I say to all the communities

:43:20.:43:24.

listening to this programme. If you want pick up the telephone on Radio

:43:24.:43:29.

tomorrow, you will be welcome. You will have the details coming up on

:43:29.:43:39.
:43:39.:43:41.

the screen. Ladies and gentlemen, please thank our guests.

:43:41.:43:48.

There is a campaign to ban Page Three from the Sun newspaper. These

:43:48.:43:58.

ladies disagree. That is coming up. It is four weeks since the

:43:58.:44:01.

motorcyclist Trevor Ferguson was killed while competing at the Manx

:44:01.:44:05.

Grand Prix. The 48-year-old from County Tyrone was married with

:44:05.:44:15.
:44:15.:44:18.

children. His nephew, Ryan Farquhar, he has announced his retirement

:44:18.:44:28.
:44:28.:44:34.

from the sport. Please welcome Ryan Farquhar. There is tragedy through

:44:34.:44:41.

this story and you were there on that day when he died. I was, I

:44:41.:44:49.

took part in the 500 classic race on the Wednesday morning. I had two

:44:49.:44:57.

bikes running in the race in the afternoon. Trevor was riding. He

:44:57.:45:02.

was riding one and another rider was riding the other by guy owned.

:45:02.:45:12.

The day got off to a perfect start and I won the race. I hoped that

:45:12.:45:16.

Nigel and Trevor could get on the podium and it got off to a good

:45:16.:45:24.

start until the second lap. Was it on that day that you decided that

:45:24.:45:32.

is it? Did you need time to think about it? Was it instinctive?

:45:32.:45:41.

Whenever we are told... When we were told, the term they used when

:45:41.:45:46.

they told us that he had been involved in a serious incident and

:45:47.:45:52.

he had not made it. It was the shock. At that stage I had not

:45:52.:46:00.

thought about my own race, I just saw the devastation it caused, with

:46:00.:46:10.
:46:10.:46:12.

Trevor's wife and children. My grandfather. It taught us apart. --

:46:12.:46:18.

tore us apart. Are you all right? Then you quickly decided you could

:46:18.:46:25.

not do that your family. Anybody involved in road racing, it is a

:46:25.:46:35.
:46:35.:46:40.

way of life. Ie liked it so much and got so much pleasure from road

:46:40.:46:49.

racing, it was something I never thought would happen to me. And

:46:49.:46:57.

when I saw how it could happen to one of the safest people to ride a

:46:57.:47:02.

bike on the open roads, it brought it home to me. There are so many

:47:02.:47:08.

things I have not done with my family, because I was so caught up,

:47:08.:47:14.

it was seven days a week, 52 weeks of the year this past number of

:47:14.:47:17.

years and there are so many things I want to do with the family I

:47:17.:47:24.

thought it was time to knock it on my head. I still love road racing.

:47:24.:47:30.

Those lovely children, was that the determining factor? There is no

:47:30.:47:37.

doubt about that. I am married and my wife has supported me. I have

:47:37.:47:41.

been racing longer than my wife has known me and she knows what it is

:47:41.:47:49.

all about. It has become part of her life. Was there a sense of

:47:49.:47:54.

relief when you said that is it? There is a massive weight lifted

:47:54.:48:01.

off my shoulders, purely because there is no pressure any more.

:48:01.:48:07.

Whenever you are racing bikes for a living, you have to go out and win,

:48:07.:48:14.

do well, to get prize money to pay the bills. The pressure from that

:48:14.:48:21.

has gone. Do you miss it? I will miss it. I will definitely miss the

:48:21.:48:27.

adrenalin rush. I hope that long term I can stay within the sport

:48:27.:48:35.

and help possibly upcoming riders and try to make it safer for them,

:48:35.:48:41.

through information, should it be on track knowledge, whatever, but

:48:41.:48:47.

when it is in your blood, you never get away from it, but I definitely

:48:47.:48:52.

will miss the adrenalin rush. are still running a racing team?

:48:52.:48:58.

Can I ask you a difficult question? I want to understand this. You are

:48:58.:49:02.

basically saying when you look at your children the risk is not worth

:49:02.:49:09.

it. If you are running a racing team, you are facilitating other

:49:09.:49:19.
:49:19.:49:23.

people to do it, and to take that risk that you are not. I have done

:49:23.:49:28.

it for years and I am in a position to call it a day. It is a dangerous

:49:28.:49:34.

sport. Every rider knows the dangers. There are young lads out

:49:34.:49:39.

there, they are keen to get at it and they know the risks. Today

:49:39.:49:45.

really understand the risks? You have had a personal tragedy. They

:49:45.:49:52.

have not. I will put it a different way. We saw your children. If your

:49:52.:49:57.

child said they wanted to take up racing, what would you say? I would

:49:57.:50:02.

try to support them as best I could. Would you try to put them off?

:50:02.:50:07.

Possibly, but if they were determined, I would be 100% behind

:50:07.:50:14.

them. I would try to make it as safe for them as possible. I have

:50:14.:50:23.

experience. I know how bikes need to be prepared. I know what safety

:50:23.:50:27.

improvements can be made. Road racing is going through a difficult

:50:27.:50:33.

time because of the lack of sponsorship. There is a recession.

:50:33.:50:39.

There are lads out there and there is nothing else in their head but

:50:39.:50:45.

to go out road racing. If I am in a position to run a team, I would

:50:45.:50:51.

like to help them to make it as safe as possible. I have a sense

:50:51.:50:58.

from you that it is in your blood. I can see that dilemma. It is my

:50:58.:51:08.
:51:08.:51:10.

life and has been since I left school. My two girls, and Karen...

:51:11.:51:16.

The I want to thank Karen for coming into night and Ladies and

:51:16.:51:26.
:51:26.:51:27.

Gentlemen, Ryan Farquhar. If you want to contact us you can do so in

:51:27.:51:37.
:51:37.:51:59.

want to contact us you can do so in Next, Page Three of the Sun

:51:59.:52:05.

newspaper has been a fixture since 1970. Calls for a ban on the top

:52:05.:52:10.

has spread is gathering momentum. 36,000 people have signed a

:52:10.:52:16.

petition to ask the edited to stop it. A senior politician in the

:52:16.:52:21.

coalition claimed topless pictures can lead to domestic violence. We

:52:21.:52:28.

are joined by a glamour model. New were a number model. And we are

:52:28.:52:37.

joined by a feminist comedian. What do you think? I think it is absurd.

:52:37.:52:43.

The arguments being put forward by how it causes domestic abuse and

:52:43.:52:48.

sexual abuse, there is no scientific statistics to back it up.

:52:48.:52:54.

You said you did it not for the money. My career choice, not for

:52:54.:53:02.

money. One aide do it if not for money? The cars it is a -- because

:53:02.:53:12.
:53:12.:53:19.

it is a career I enjoy. Do you do your job for money? Yes. Do you?

:53:19.:53:28.

And I enjoy it and I love the BBC! You cannot be a millionaire in this

:53:28.:53:32.

industry, there is not that much money you have to do it for other

:53:32.:53:38.

reasons. You are misquoting the politician who is saying Page Three

:53:38.:53:45.

is part of a culture of sexism and there is a problem with sexism with

:53:45.:53:51.

two women a week being killed by their partner or former partner.

:53:51.:53:56.

There is a shortage of women in business and politics. What is

:53:56.:54:01.

driving that? One thing is the attitude that seems pervasive in

:54:01.:54:05.

society that men are valued for their business skills, brains,

:54:05.:54:10.

sporting ability, but women are valued for what they look like. We

:54:10.:54:14.

have a national newspaper and inside the front cover is a picture

:54:14.:54:19.

of a half-naked woman. It pushes that idea. It is one thing if the

:54:19.:54:28.

picture is on the top shelf, it is not, it is right there. It is not

:54:28.:54:32.

explicit material. You have to understand it is not really a

:54:32.:54:38.

newspaper. It is like a celebrity gossip magazine. They have items

:54:38.:54:42.

about footballers and who they are sleeping with. There is no

:54:42.:54:48.

intellectual value. If it were the dark newspaper, and you were

:54:48.:54:51.

reading about world economics, it would not be compatible. But this

:54:51.:54:59.

is a tabloid and anything goes. former editor of the Daily Mirror

:54:59.:55:09.
:55:09.:55:09.

is joining us. You used to choose their own number gulls. I did, yes.

:55:09.:55:14.

-- Page Three girls. I worked for the Sun newspaper in a previous

:55:14.:55:18.

life before I edited the Daily Mirror. The last job as night

:55:18.:55:24.

editor was to pick the Page Three girl for the following day. As I

:55:24.:55:28.

put my coat on and drank my cold cup of tea before leaving for home,

:55:28.:55:38.
:55:38.:55:38.

I would go through the pictures. I know it sounds like a dream life,

:55:38.:55:47.

but it was not! Is it right? Now you have grown older? I am old and

:55:47.:55:56.

finished now. I need page 3 to spice me up! In it right? It is not

:55:56.:56:01.

right. I would like to see it finished. But we should not have a

:56:01.:56:10.

ban. What about putting it on the top shelf, with that solve the

:56:10.:56:20.
:56:20.:56:21.

problem? There is a young man at the back. Do you not think when you

:56:21.:56:25.

say it is a gossip newspaper, and you are in it, which means that

:56:26.:56:33.

your worthless? You are making a leap. D not think it is making a

:56:33.:56:43.
:56:43.:56:46.

mark out if you? -- mug. I say there is anything in it. You can

:56:46.:56:56.
:56:56.:57:06.

have a human in a nude form. Is it OK to be in a newspaper, yes it is.

:57:06.:57:11.

If I try to do it myself, would there be a problem? Why do women

:57:11.:57:21.

get away with it? Or on second, we have some body hair. Very quickly.

:57:21.:57:27.

From a -- somebody here. I would not want my daughter looking at

:57:27.:57:32.

those pictures and growing up to think it is normal. I have respect

:57:32.:57:37.

for somebody coming to put her point forward. There are other

:57:37.:57:45.

images that are more concerning and more harmful. Images of famine,

:57:45.:57:52.

mutilation. That is a ridiculous point. It is like saying I should

:57:52.:58:02.
:58:02.:58:05.

be allowed to beat my wife because the man next door stabbed his! That

:58:05.:58:09.

man made a brilliant buoy, young people cannot help being exposed to

:58:09.:58:16.

this. -- point. It is a mainstream newspaper. If you want to see these

:58:16.:58:22.

images, there are magazines. This is what we will do tonight. We are

:58:22.:58:26.

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