25/09/2012 Today at Conference


25/09/2012

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Transcript


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Good evening and welcome back to Brighton for a round-up of the

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goings-on at the Liberal Democrat Conference today. It stopped

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raining on the Lib Dems today and started blowing a gale. But there

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was no comfort in the conference hall, where Danny Alexander told

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them an extra �16 billion had to be found in election year 2015 and the

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Welfare Bill wasn't immune from cuts.

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Nick Clegg indicated his party could target the benefits of the

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richest pensioners in its election manifesto. Elsewhere, is Alex

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Salmond a stooge of Beijing? The leader of the Scottish Lib Dems

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seems to think so. And we test the mood in the ranks

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to see if the thought of a future partnership with Labour cheers up

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the poor rained upon, blown about, down in the polls, Lib Dems.

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Here in the bar of the Grand Hotel, I expect these rather battle-weary

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Lib Dems could use a bit of warming up. They know tackling the deficit

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will take a lot of doing. One Minister told me today that he

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would like the coalition to consider cutting the benefits of

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the best-off pensioners now. But the coalition has already promised

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to leave universal benefits alone. Nick Clegg has probably apologised

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enough to be getting on with! What about after the election? What

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about the best-off pensioners? Nick Robinson spoke to the Deputy Prime

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Minister. You will have to cut the welfare

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budget in part to meet those savings? Yes, I don't think it will

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be possible to set the welfare budget entirely aside. It

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constitutes a third of total of public spending. We won't do what

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has been suggested by some which is scoop out almost all of that amount,

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�10 billion worth, from welfare alone. We need to ask people who

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have far more considerable means, are much wealthier than normal

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people, to make an additional contribution. Will you stop the

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better-off pensioners getting top- ups to their incomes that they

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don't need? On winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, free TV

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licences, there is a debate to be had in the next Parliament - we

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have ruled it out in this coalition agreement - there is a question

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mark about whether it is right that Peter Stringfellow or Alan Sugar

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have available to them free bus passes subsidised by normal workers

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paying taxes. What about people who are not hugely wealthy, but are

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better off - doctors, senior teachers, police officers? I start

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at the top. It seems to me, as a matter of principle, not right that

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when we are taking housing benefit away from some people, we are not

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asking Alan Sugar and Peter Stringfellow - I don't know whether

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they receive those benefits - we are not saying that other taxpayers

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are not going to subsidise those free benefits to you. Don Foster is

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not a millionaire and he says this coalition, now, not maybe some time

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in the future, should take money away from people like him? He is

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wrong. It is not going to happen during this Parliament. What I'm

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talking about is people who are very, very wealthy indeed, who

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receive through the generosity of millions of ordinary taxpayers in

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this country free bus passes, free TV licences, winter fuel support,

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winter payment support, even though they frankly don't need it. If, as

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seems unlikely, the Conservatives agree to your mansion tax, how many

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more billions of savings, cuts or tax rises, would you still have to

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find? Considerably more billions. A mansion tax... �14 billion in one

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year? A mansion tax is not going to fill the blackhole. This is the

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whole point. No single measure will when you are dealing with the

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enormity of this difficult task of filling the blackhole left to us by

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Gordon Brown and Ed Balls. I think what you are saying to party and

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country at this conference is, "We have grown up, we are being more

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candid with you." Isn't the honest thing to say, "It won't come from

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mansions and it won't come from oligarchs and it won't come from

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millionaires. Ladies and gentlemen, it is tough, but it will come from

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you"? You are missing a point. In polls, as in life, your values are

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reflected in where you start. When you have a difficult decision,

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where do you start? Who do you first ask to make a sacrifice? You

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are right, there is a difference between myself and my Conservative

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colleagues in Government, for reasons that you will need to ask

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them, they don't want to ask people who live in mansions worth �5

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million to pay a 1% levy on the value of mansions over �2 million.

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Personally, I think there are millions of people in this country

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who can barely imagine what it means to live in a mansion worth �2

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million. It is worth that the Liberal Democrats are saying that

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as we move to this debate, we are saying we will start by asking them

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to make the first sacrifice. Nick Clegg talking to Nick Robinson. Mr

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Clegg's close colleague, David Laws, is saying there is no point in

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cutting the benefit of rich pensioners because it would not

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raise much cash. Ever fancied running a country? Be careful what

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you wish for! Yesterday, Vince Cable managed to convince the party

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that they were right to tackle the deficit. Today, Danny Alexander

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brought home just how tough that was going to be. Thanks to the

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Liberal Democrats taxes are getting fairer. Our tough budget

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negotiations mean that next year 24 million people will benefit from

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the largest-ever increase in the tax-free amount. The income tax cut

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was by far the most important measure in the Budget and the

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working people of this country will have over �3 billion more of their

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own money to spend next year as a result. A cleaner working full-time

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on the minimum wage will see their tax bill halved thanks to the

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Liberal Democrats. APPLAUSE Very soon, very soon no-one will pay

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income tax at all until they are earning more than �10,000, thanks

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to the Liberal Democrats. APPLAUSE We promised it in our manifesto. We

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campaigned for it and we had the courage to go into coalition to

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deliver it. At the next election, we will promise to raise that

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figure yet further to �12,500 so that you don't pay any income tax

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until you are earning more than a full-time salary on the minimum

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wage. APPLAUSE Despite all the difficulties, and challenges in the

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years that lie ahead, in the last two years we have resecured for

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this country a very precious commodity - credibility. No-one now

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doubts that Britain is a nation that can pay its way. We have

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rebuilt the confidence in this nation's ability to pay its way in

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the world. We can now put that credibility to work for the British

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people. There could not be a worse time to argue that we should

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abandon our plan. APPLAUSE As we overwhelmingly agreed in this hall

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yesterday, we won't do it. It is the foundation for everything else.

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It is the foundation for jobs and prosperity in the future. APPLAUSE

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Last autumn, we were faced with a worsening forecast from the

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independent office of budget responsibility. Rather than add

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more cuts now, we decided to take another two years to do the job.

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That was right. The pragmatic response to things getting worse.

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But fellow Liberal Democrats, that decision has consequences, too. It

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means we are now committed to further deficit reduction into the

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next Parliament. Let me be clear. I will not sacrifice this party's

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independence by binding us to detailed spending plans deep into

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the next Parliament. APPLAUSE there is one thing we must do. We

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have to set a detailed budget for Government for the years 2015/16.

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We will be in Government for the first five weeks of it at least.

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APPLAUSE That means setting out specific plans for the �16 billion

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of savings that are needed in that year. It also means setting out how

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we, as Liberal Democrats, would make the further tough choices

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needed beyond that. Nick and I will negotiate hard to get this right,

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to make choices that are shaped by our liberal values and driven by

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our Liberal Democrat priorities. We will simply not allow the books to

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be balanced in a way that hits the poorest hardest. APPLAUSE But at

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�220 billion, welfare is one-third of all public spending. Despite our

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painful reforms, it is still rising. We will have to look at it. But

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that cannot, must not, and will not be the only place we look. We

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insist that the difficult choices must be fairly shared, that those

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who can afford more must contribute more. APPLAUSE At our conference

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two years ago I announced an extra �900 million and told you by the

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end of the Parliament it would deliver �7 billion a year in

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revenues. Last year, I reported back that we were on track for an

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additional �2 billion and this year, I can announce that we are on track

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to raise an additional �4 billion. Fairer taxes, in tough times, it

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means everyone playing by the same rule book and everyone paying their

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fair share. The vast majority of taxpayers in this wealth bracket do

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pay their fair share. We have this message to the small minority of

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wealthy people who don't play by the rules. We are coming to get you

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and you will pay your fair share. APPLAUSE In the summer I shut down

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the scandalous situation where thousands of public sector workers

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were being paid in a way that potentially allowed them to pay too

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little tax. Rules are now in place to stop that happening. Based on

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the simple principle that if you are being paid public money, you

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should pay your taxes. But it cannot be right that similar rules

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don't apply to companies doing business with the Government, too.

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If you want to work for us, you should play by our rules.

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Taxpayers' money should not be funding tax dodgers. So I have... I

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have tasked HMRC and the Cabinet Office to come up with a workable

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solution to this problem and we will set out more details later

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this year. And we need to get wealthy individuals to pay a fairer

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share, too. In this country, we tax work, effort, income too highly.

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And unearned wealthy far too little. You can move your money offshore,

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but you can't move your mansion. That is why we want a mansion tax.

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It is simple. It is fair. It is unavoidable. An extra levy on high-

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value property would get more money from those who can afford it. It

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would ensure that the burden of the next round of deficit reduction is

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shared more fairly. We will continue to argue for it within

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Government. APPLAUSE Danny Alexander speaking earlier today.

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We are all in it together! Not that you would know, the green and proud

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of it Liberal Democrats were in the same Government as a lot of

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Conservatives when it comes to climate change. Andrew Neil spoke

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to Ed Davey. At the weekend, you talked about

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"the Tory Tea Party tendency which didn't want to spend money on green

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power". Who were you thinking of? Well, there is a number of people

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on the Conservative backbenches who never believed that climate change

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is an issue, have always opposed the green agenda and I believe we

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need to stand up to that. The Prime Minister made it very clear by

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making sure that when he was opposition leader that the

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Conservative Party voted for the Climate Change Act and indeed,

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George Osborne campaigned when he was running the election campaign

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on a slogan of "vote plue, go green" and this will -- "vote blue,

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go green" and this will be the greenest Government ever. It is not

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just Conservative backbenchers, is it, your own Energy Minister is

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part of the Tea Party tendency when it comes to green issues, isn't he?

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He told BBC News in 2009 that renewable energy needs to pass the

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twin test of environmental and economic sustainability and wind

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:14:23.:14:25.

power fails on both accounts. He is Not at all. I worked with John

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before, and got on with him incredibly well. I am delighted

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that he is in my department. We are already working on a range of

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issues. When he and others who studied renewables, they will see

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that they can be cost-effective and important for preventing a reliance

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on carbon in our economy. But what you stand for and what you believe

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cannot be the same as Mr Hayes saying wind power fails on both

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accounts. You don't agree with that. He said it. The he said it in 2009.

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I am sure he will look at the evidence now. Meaning he didn't

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look before? I don't know whether he looked before. When you are a

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minister, you look at an awful lot, and the evidence is clear. How is

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your secret plot to get the Lib Dem leadership coming on? It is so

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secret that I have not heard about it. So I am delighted to have yet

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another opportunity to deny that story. So you have not also gone on

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a special new diet because you ate too many pies in the pie factory?

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was in the pie factory many years ago. I take that sort of story with

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a pinch of salt and a large glass of Rioja. Bat will not work for the

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diet! Maybe we should both -- we should both go on a diet, Andrew.

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maybe you should also be standing the leadership. Would you consider

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being Lib Dem leader? We have the best Liberal Democrat leader we

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have ever had. I am immensely proud of him. Better than Lloyd George?

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Well, he was a Liberal leader. We have a Liberal Democrat leader.

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Nick Clegg would measure up well to Lord George -- Lloyd George. He has

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been our most successful leader for decades, and he is doing an

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incredibly brilliant -- difficult job brilliantly. This leadership

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talk that you and others in the media love to focus on, it is just

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not kicking off here in the conference. There is not a single

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MP any of you lot have found who is against Nick Clegg's the leadership.

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We are a united party. You should be asking the other parties about

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how much they are united. We will, don't worry. If Mr Clegg is doing

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such a brilliant job, why do the polls show him as the least popular

:17:07.:17:13.

party leader since Michael Foot? well, both Nick and the Liberal

:17:13.:17:18.

Democrats are not doing well in the polls. That is self-evident. But

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some polls show us doing better, and you tend not to report those.

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An ICM poll put us on 80% this week. People are selective in the

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evidence they use. The es Liberal Democrats may be

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lagging behind in the polls, but for some parties, life is much

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tougher, like the Scottish Liberal Democrats. Michael Moore, the

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Secretary of State for Scotland and Willie Rennie were both on the

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platform today. Willie Rennie was out to pick a fight. Last year in

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Scotland, people were writing us off. Perhaps even some of our

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supporters right here wondered how a group of five MSPs cut by two-

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thirds in the elections could make an impact on the Scottish political

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scene. Although our opponents will always to write us, I can tell you

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that they are privately fizzing in that the Liberal Democrats will

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just not disappear. Well, I am not actually sorry to disappoint them.

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As history shows, we have a bit more staying power than that. We

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will make the Liberal case. Unlike Alex Salmond, who does not. He

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likes to court the rich and powerful. The cosy relationship

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that he has fostered with those with vested interests runs counter

:18:44.:18:50.

to the values that Scotland holds dear. He was asked to write a

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column in the first edition of the new Sun on Sunday. In it, he said

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that News International was not the only company involved in phone

:19:02.:19:09.

hacking. It is a familiar argument that many mothers used when

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defending their errant son. He was not the only one that did it. There

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were others as well. Alex Salmond's defence of Rupert Murdoch's empire

:19:20.:19:26.

revealed a politician who was prepared to do anything to get the

:19:26.:19:30.

support of the media, even if it meant betraying the phone hacking

:19:30.:19:37.

victims. We saw the same in the summer. The Dalai Lama came to

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Scotland, and we learnt that the Chinese government was going around,

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telling everybody not to meet him. People in Scotland didn't listen to

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them for bow to the pressure. Except for one man, the First

:19:55.:19:59.

Minister. He submitted to pressure from the Chinese in a way that I am

:19:59.:20:09.
:20:09.:20:11.

so proud that our deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, did not. It

:20:11.:20:18.

actually seems that if you have got �1 billion or a billion people, the

:20:18.:20:24.

First Minister will do whatever you want. We have shaped a fairer

:20:24.:20:28.

country, a fairness dividend delivered by Liberal Democrats for

:20:28.:20:37.

all of Scotland and all of the UK. And in making these changes, we

:20:37.:20:41.

will also strengthen Scotland within the UK. There are those in

:20:41.:20:45.

the Scottish National Party who see devolution as a stepping stone to

:20:45.:20:50.

independence. But they are wrong. Devolution is about strengthening

:20:50.:20:55.

Scotland within the UK. Independence is about taking

:20:55.:21:01.

Scotland out of it. So I, we, stand up for devolution and against

:21:01.:21:11.
:21:11.:21:12.

independence. And when referendum day comes, Liberal Democrats will

:21:12.:21:18.

be at the forefront of the campaign to keep our UK family together. Of

:21:18.:21:22.

course, the issue of independence cannot be resolved until a

:21:22.:21:26.

referendum agreement is reached between Scotland's two governments.

:21:26.:21:30.

I have said from the outset that any referendum must be legal, fair

:21:30.:21:36.

and decisive. It should be made in Scotland for the people of Scotland.

:21:36.:21:42.

But a referendum run from the Scottish parliament, fulfilling the

:21:42.:21:45.

SNP's election pledge, could only happen if we could reach an

:21:45.:21:50.

agreement on devolving power. As Liberal Democrats, it is not in our

:21:50.:21:53.

nature to be nationalists. We believe in a fair society where

:21:53.:21:59.

what unites us is stronger than what divides us, whether nations of

:21:59.:22:03.

our country come together and invest in good times and bad in our

:22:03.:22:08.

common goals and interests. Let's sort out the process and move on to

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the argument. Let's get the referendum started, and let's show

:22:12.:22:16.

the people of this country that Liberal Democrats in government's

:22:16.:22:22.

stand for a fairer Scotland and a stronger United Kingdom. Michael

:22:22.:22:25.

Moore there. Vince Cable told his party yesterday that we were

:22:25.:22:29.

heading for yet another hung parliament. So, with the Lib Dems

:22:29.:22:33.

prefer to cuddle up with Labour after 2015? Adam Fleming took his

:22:33.:22:38.

mood box out to try to find out. Today, we are asking Liberal

:22:38.:22:41.

Democrat delegates who they would like to share power with at the

:22:41.:22:45.

next -- if the next election results in a hung parliament. Do

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they want to be in a coalition with the Tories or Labour? For got to be

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Labour. We have already been in collision with the Tories, and it

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is sensible that we are in coalition with Labour next.

:22:59.:23:03.

have come for the Tories. Yes, because Labour screwed up the

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country so much last time. Certainly not the Tories. Earth I

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guess I will put it in Labour being the least worst of the other two.

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Very optimistic. I don't trust either of them as far as I can

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throw them. Then act it out eloquently with the ball. What

:23:24.:23:30.

would be your ideal coalition arrangement? Greens. A green-Lib

:23:30.:23:40.

Dem minority government. Wouldn't that be about 57 MPs? Why not?

:23:40.:23:43.

would you rather be in coalition with at the next election if it is

:23:43.:23:53.
:23:53.:23:54.

a hung parliament? What message are you trying to send with that?

:23:54.:24:03.

not about coalitions after 2015, it is about being in power after 2015.

:24:03.:24:09.

It is going pretty slowly this time. Vince, do you want to do the balls

:24:09.:24:13.

this year? You did it last year. I will lend some money to your

:24:13.:24:20.

business bank. I will give you a tenner if you take one of my balls.

:24:20.:24:26.

Is it a tricky one? Well, have a look. Who is your preferred

:24:26.:24:31.

coalition partner? Can I have two balls? I would hurl the ball at

:24:31.:24:38.

both of them. Put one in each. scrupulously impartial. Who is your

:24:38.:24:48.

preferred coalition partner next time? Go away. As a minister, you

:24:48.:24:55.

have to juggle many balls. might say that, I couldn't possibly

:24:55.:25:05.
:25:05.:25:05.

comment. Yes, Minister. We don't have a preferred coalition partner,

:25:05.:25:10.

as you know, so I will put it back. That was exhausting, getting this

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many balls. But the majority have gone in that direction, towards

:25:14.:25:22.

Labour. I just like getting MPs to Sables, basically. I know. Balls,

:25:22.:25:26.

balls, balls. Adam Fleming. A back in the conference hall,

:25:26.:25:31.

George Osborne's plans for regional public sector pay were held up,

:25:31.:25:34.

chewed over and comprehensively spat out by the Liberal Democrats

:25:34.:25:39.

when the time came to vote. To me, fairness means spreading our wealth

:25:39.:25:44.

more widely. It is unfair and a liberal to suck money out of those

:25:44.:25:51.

poorest communities. Regional pay would do that. So instinctively, as

:25:51.:25:55.

Liberal Democrats, we must know that regional pay is wrong. But

:25:55.:26:00.

apparently, George Osborne does not. He wants to allow government

:26:00.:26:03.

departments to depress public sector salaries in regions across

:26:03.:26:09.

the UK, to open the possibility of postcode pay. The motion we are

:26:09.:26:14.

discussing today a poses the expansion of regional pay.

:26:14.:26:17.

private and that sector workers in our most deprived regions are

:26:17.:26:23.

paying tax so that the taxpayer employed workers in other regions

:26:23.:26:27.

can enjoy a lifestyle they can't. That is not simply unfair, that is

:26:28.:26:34.

absolutely unjust. But we are not only tea party of fairness, we are

:26:34.:26:38.

the party of localism. And to deny local public sector commission has

:26:38.:26:43.

the right to negotiate local rates of pay flies in the face of our

:26:43.:26:46.

policy on local democracy, accountability and the

:26:46.:26:51.

decentralisation of power to the regions. I understand the emotion,

:26:51.:26:55.

the idea that we will cut wages. If I believe regional pay would do

:26:55.:27:00.

that, I would be as angry and emotional as the proposals are.

:27:01.:27:05.

However, the time has come for us to recognise that as a party that

:27:05.:27:11.

supports localism, if we intend to promote regional diversity, we must

:27:11.:27:16.

also allow our local government units to adapt to the local

:27:16.:27:22.

conditions. We already struggled to attract into areas like mine people

:27:22.:27:29.

to come and fill posts in hospitals, teachers and other public-sector

:27:29.:27:32.

workers. If they thought the cost of coming to North Devon was that

:27:32.:27:36.

they would see their wage cuts, they simply would not come.

:27:36.:27:42.

contrast, our workers will go elsewhere, where they will get

:27:42.:27:45.

higher pay and face lower cost. We have been asking ourselves this

:27:45.:27:50.

week, what can we do to make a difference in government? We have

:27:50.:27:54.

been told me about fairness. We can start right here, right now, by

:27:54.:27:58.

taking a stand against this and making it clear to our colleagues

:27:58.:28:04.

in the coalition that up with this we will not put. That is it for

:28:04.:28:08.

tonight. Tomorrow on the conference floor, we will hear from the

:28:08.:28:11.

business minister and the main event, the deputy prime minister,

:28:11.:28:16.

Nick Clegg. It is a big moment. No one imagines he can turn around his

:28:16.:28:20.

or his party's fortunes with a single speech, but this party is

:28:20.:28:25.

still behind him, but the most part. But they want and need a good

:28:25.:28:28.

performance from their leader. And he will not be making any more

:28:28.:28:32.

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