06/02/2016 Welsh Liberal Democrats Conference

Three months and counting until the Assembly election,

but are the Welsh Liberal Democrats up for the fight?

Well, just as the Six Nations rugby tournament gets under way,

so too do the Welsh spring political conferences.

With all eyes on the Assembly elections in May, the Liberal

And over the coming weeks we'll bring you live coverage

of the Labour, Conservatives, Ukip and Plaid Cymru

The Welsh Lib Dems are gathering in Cardiff and you too can join

Joining us to guide us through the gameplan this afternoon is our Welsh

Good afternoon Vaughan. The Welsh Lib Dems. Where are they? Well, this

is a crucial election for them. You can say that about any election with

any party I guess, but this really is crunch time. They've lost all

their parliamentary seats in Wales, two out of the three, so they only

have one MP left. The local government base has been shadow nerd

large parts of Wales. The thing that's been keeping the party going

is this Assembly group. Now, they are in real danger of a near wipeout

in the Assembly elections. Not in some ways through any fault of their

own. They could score same number of votes in 2011 and not win less

seats, because of the electoral mathematics and what the effect of

Ukip's growth in Wales has on the threshold you require to reach the

seats. So it is a real crunch time for the party. A bad result in May

would mean they could drift down into minor party status and any

rebuilding would take them far longer. And they were given a

beating last May. 13 points down in Wales. But to what extent can we

translate that directly to the Assembly election? Election? They

would argue you in the media were predicting gloom and doom in 2011

and it didn't happen, we held on to five, and don't do it this time.

We'll be fighting on our record in the Assembly. The Welsh Lib Dems,ty

don't think we were predicting gloom and doom. A few hundred votes in a

few regions would have seen them reduce to three AMs in the last

election. They had the luck of the draw, the exception being South

Wales East. The difference this time they could get the same number of

votes in 2016 and they got in 2011 and it would be nowhere near enough

to reach the threshold in the regions. If we get the sort of

performance that everyone is suggesting that we are going to see

from Ukip in Wales. The polls are suggesting, and we all know what

happened with the polls last year, so let's not place too much weight

on them. But they suggest that Ukip are running 15-16% in Wales. That's

three times what the Liberal Democrats are getting. That is a

very bad place to be in. There's a way out of it for the Lib Dems, I

think, which is by concentrating #207b constituencies. Think, which

is by concentrating #207b constituencies. Think, which is by

concentrating constituencies. Think, which is by

think, constituencies. Think, which is by

concentrating -- concentrating on the constituencies. They have an

outside chance of taking Montgomeryshire and Cardiff central

and that would be enough to maintain credibility. Even if they failed in

that, it would at least deliver them one seat, Brecon and Radnorshire and

Montgomeryshire, that's how on edge they are. Jokingly somebody

described this as the Welsh Liberal Democrat memorial conference, but

this is a party that's been around 150 years. They've been in worse

places than this and survived. We've got two hours to analyse every

aspect of the party. Thank you for now. We'll hear the speeches as

well. Our eyes and ears at the conference

at Cardiff Metropolitan University Prynhawn da Arwyn. We've heard a few

speech this is morning and they seem in buoyant mood given the scenario

that Vaughan painted there. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you there.

I'm just outside... Oh, how are they? In good spirits, but they are

on the front foot. Find me a politician who would say anything

else and I will give you ?10. We are outside main hallway. Kirsty

Williams has been giving her speech. I've been chatting to the delegates.

We heard the analysis from Vaughan, perhaps a total wipeout in Wales.

I'll speak to two candidates from the party who will respectfully

disagree with that. I had a chat to Tim Farron about the fightback for

the 2020 general election, and what he thinks of the chances for the

party in Wales. I will at he thinks of the chances for the party in

Wales. I will give you a clue - he is quite positive. All that to come.

We recorded that earlier. That's later in the programme. Thank you

Arwyn. In terms of numbers, how many are there, do you think? We were

sort of trying to estimate there might be around 100, at the most

150. Not the best-attended conference, but I'm sure what they

are saying is what they lack in numbers they more than make up for

in enthusiasm. Thank you Arwyn. We'll be back and forth to Arwyn

throughout the afternoon. We've got two leader speeches

for you this afternoon and they're both from before

when we came on air. We're going to hear the speech

of the Welsh leader, But first we'll hear

from the party's UK leader, He was introduced by the former

leader of the party in Wales, We've learnt already this

conference, and I'm indebted to them for telling us some things about Tim

Farron, that he always wears Doc Martens and that also Eluned also

wears Doc Martens. I didn't know that fact. Tim once said when he

goes to the Cenotaph he will polish his Doc Martens. I think one of the

things we've learnt also about Tim is that he will focus on some very

key issues, and brought to the public's attention some key very

issues. You will know that he has dealt with the refugee crisis in a

very particular way, which I think given the way we are as a party has

demonstrated something about our true values. He is passionate about

housing, and housing is something which this party will, and has, and

will continue to feature very proudly in what it says. He is

passionate about climate change and has made a play for that issue and

for our party. So he has got some very clear message which is he has

been transmitting. There've been some public opinion polls about

party leaders. The key strength, the biggest vote that Tim has got, is

where he has said that he stands up for ordinary people. That is our

party leader, stand up for ordinary people. But I must tell you a little

bit about his earlier life. One of his early friends said this about

him very recently. This is someone who has known him since he was a

young man. Tim has always been full of confidence and self belief. Plus

he is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet. Ladies and

gentlemen, the man who has sprung like a coal, ready to jump into the

fray to defend our country, Tim Farron!

APPLAUSE. DWHITE Farron!

APPLAUSE. -- frung like a coil. -- sprung like a coil.

APPLAUSE. Thank you Mike. That was from my keyboard player and I've got

the Docs on. I didn't want to disappoint anybody. It been a great

week to be a Liberal Democrat, thank to Marco Rubio in the Iowa caucuses

we know that coming third is as good as winning.

LAUGHTER. An awful lot has changed since the last time I was with you,

but but might have spotted I snuck into Cardiff about 48 hours ago and

had a brilliant morning speaking to members, canvassing with Leonard

Parrott and team in ad-Oms town, in our doctor Martins. We had four

canvas peoples out. Our record in Cardiff Central is outstanding and

many people are returning to the Liberal Democrats, but not just

returning to the Liberal Democrats but doing so with enthusiasm.

Enthusiasm. Eluned and her team are fantastic, but those voters will not

come to choose the Liberal alternative unless we work even

harder and meet every single one of them. For five years it has felt

like the old adage, where you work you win, had ceased to apply. Can I

tell you from my own experience, from by-elections up and down the

UK, from Launceston to Brecon, to Wrexham and Inverness, where you

work you win works again. It is not rocket science, but it is a science.

It is like that scene in Independence Day, where the

Americans suss out,000 defend the Americans. The guy on the Morse code

machine says, we've worked out how to defeat them, now tell the rest of

the world. Carwyn Jones, after taking Wales for granted for 17

years, we know how to take you down. Welsh Liberal Democrats will fight

you for every vote and every seat, because Wales deserves better.

APPLAUSE. But plenty has happened since I addressed the Welsh

conference last year. We've seen the Tories forced to abandon their cuts

to working tax credits because of the votes of Liberal Democrat peers

like Mike and Jenny. And we've seen parts of Britain hit by the most

devastating floods, with the highest levels of rainfall ever recorded in

the United Kingdom. We've seen the refugee crisis worsen, with fellow

human beings forced to live in the most appalling conditions, as

politicians in Britain and in France stand by, wringing their hands,

explaining how difficult it is and making excuses. Excuses. We have

seen the Prime Minister return from his renegotiations in Europe, eager

to begin a charm offensive to persuade us of what we already knew,

we are better off in Europe. APPLAUSE. But nowhere is David

Cameron's failure of leadership more apparent than in the current refugee

crisis. He talks about the huge financial contribution Britain is

making to tackle the problem in Syria. It is true. Britain is

doubling its contribution to ?2.3 billion. But that is all money

destined for far off shore. More crucially, far from the shores of

Calais or Dunkirk. Lesbos or Lampedusa. His aim is to keep the

refugee problem away from us, out of sight and out of mind, to stop more

people coming, but the truth is more people are coming, a post war record

of 190,000 refugees entered Europe in 2014. A record that was broken

five times over when 1 million entered in 2015. 1 million desperate

people fleeing to our Continent. In 2016 we predict 3 million men, women

and children fleeing war and persecution to a Continent where

Britain is a leading power, a dominant culture, a political giant,

led by a man who is letting them down and as he betrays British

values he let's us all down. APPLAUSE. We need to remember who we

are talking about. Stalin once famously said, didn't he, one death

is a tragedy it is, 1 million is a statistic. Let's focus on the

tragedy. Terrified, destitute broken people making harrowing

life-threatening journeys that none of us can imagine. On the beach at

Lesbos I met a carpenter and a nursery teacher and their little

daughters of five and three. They had sung to shows girls and told

them stories for hours and hours to distract them from the horror and

terror of the journey over the sea to Europe. They love their children

as much as I love mine. Yet they risked their daughters' lives

because the bigger the risk, the bigger risk was to stay where they

were and not to flee. 94% of those entering Europe this way are

refugees by any objective standard. They flee war. A persecution and

death. They seek peace, security and life. How dare we look for excuses

when we should provide solutions. I repeat my call to the Prime

Minister, show some leadership. Show some backbone. Accept the 3,000

children that I and Save the Children have been pressing for.

Take our fair share of the desperate looking to us for help. Do the right

thing, do the British thing. Do it now.

APPLAUSE. The Prime Minister 's lack of

leadership on Europe and the refugee crisis is just another demonstration

of how the Tories are out of touch with the challenges facing Britain.

And if Calais is a long way from London in the Prime Minister 's

mind, I golly, Cardiff is even further. So too, by the way, if

Kendall, at the heart of my patch and if you'll permit me for a moment

to reflect on the recent flooding, how it shows a Government out of

touch with the reality of peoples lives, I experience the floods

first-hand. You never think it's going to happen to you and then it

does. Abandoning our car as the river burst across the fields and

the road, grabbing the kids and wading through the water to get to

safety, all brought home how devastating in dangerous flooding

can be. We were luckier than most, losing your car is nothing compared

to losing your home and your businesses. Thousands of Cumbrians

did. Unless you've seen first-hand, it's hard for people to understand

the scale of the devastation. The cost of the impact of the floods

this winter is likely to be almost ?6 billion, just think about it for

a moment. That is three times the size of the entire Foreign

Commonwealth Office budget. Yet what has the reaction been? First of all,

he and his spin doctors had to settle the big question. Should he

appear in his own hunter Wellington boots or buy a pair from Asda and

look like a man of the people? Seriously, there had a lengthy

debate in number ten because we still have our sources, so we know

this. LAUGHTER

APPLAUSE Some of the Tories were quite nice.

Yes, along with other ministers, the PM has visited and said all the

right things but what have the Government actually done? They

refused to provide the funding for over 90% of the damage full survey

have cut the environment Department by 15%, dragged their feet over

reopening key roads, reminded us in the lakes in the Dales and Cumbria

of something you know only too well, in Brecon and Radnor and Ceredigion,

Montgomeryshire, no part of Britain is more taken for granted and more

ignored by Conservatives than rural Britain.

APPLAUSE And it is not just in the North of

England that flooding matters. I know here in Wales you also had

serious flooding issues and experts are concerned that without further

investment you could see more of the sorts of scenes we have witnessed

this winter. But it's not just on flooding the Tories are so out of

touch. They are slashing support for low-income families, encouraging the

selling off of social homes and making it even harder for young

people to get on in life, restricting housing benefit for

anyone under 21. David Cameron and his Government have no idea how hard

it is for people who don't enjoy the sort of income that they do. They

simply don't realise that people in Britain today are choosing between

meals for themselves and meals for their kids. They are choosing

between heating and clothes for the kids. For school. I said earlier,

our Lib Dem votes in parliament has stop the cuts to working tax credit,

yes, but George Osborne is now sneaking those cuts through through

Universal Credit, that's up to 164,000 hard-working low income

Welsh people who will find themselves ?1000 a year worse off as

a consequence. If you are too ill to work they will cut your employment

support allowance, too, by ?30 a week. That might buy you one Hunter

welly, not to, but for some people it's a difference between living and

just about existing. With all this money they are saving in those cuts,

you'd think they might be investing with that money in Britain's future.

You might think they'd be looking at the flooding which has occurred,

listen to the scientists who say that much of it is likely to be a

consequence of El Nino, climate change, and doing something else

about it. There are certainly doing something. They have decided to cut

out all of the green stuff which gives our chance of a cleaner

future. We fought to place green valleys at the heart of Government,

Chris Huhne and Ed Davey led a quiet revolution in Whitehall, and showed

it was possible to be economically literate and green at the same time.

In five years, we tripled renewable energy, set up the green deal,

helping people to enslave their homes and lower their energy costs,

we started the green investment bank, the first of its kind in the

world. We planted over 1 million trees and blocked plans to sell off

forests. We made a ?500 million investment in low emission vehicles.

And we finally got the 5p tax on plastic bags in England something

you let the way on five years previously. Since the general

election, has been undone by the Tories. Listen to this and realise

how little they care about our future. Cuts to subsidies for solar

have seen the solar industry halved in size almost overnight. Up to

19,000 British job losses. They have cut subsidies for onshore wind which

is the cheapest form of renewable energy, abolished the rules on zero

carbon homes, scrapped the green deal, cut the renewable heat

incentive by ?700 million, scrapped the ?1 billion carbon capture and

storage projects, reduced tax breaks for electric cars, and removed the

Climate Change Levy exemption, renewable energy businesses

increasing their costs. Climate change is the biggest earthly threat

facing humankind. But there are no headlines to be doing the right

thing, tackling the fact for our children's sake, where are the boats

in that? Why worry about the long-term when you concern

yourselves with shallow cynical politics and you know exactly how

little regard the Tories have for a sustainable future with the latest

dithering over the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon.

APPLAUSE Let me make it absolutely dead

cliff. The Swansea Bay tidal lagoon has to go ahead. It will provide

hundreds of jobs and supply energy for 120 years, three times as long

as a nuclear power plant, it will be at a madness for the Government to

pull further investment from the renewable sector which generate

economic growth and jobs. We've been a world leader in this field and

maintained that status, it's now in jeopardy. It's a litmus test for

this Conservative Government of Westminster for some do UK about

this agenda or was it all for show? For five years, we fought sceptical

Tories to ensure the coalition was the greenest Government ever and in

the last six months, this progress has been unravelled at an alarming

pace. Those huskies that David Cameron shot ages ago when the

usefulness had run their course, they will be turning in their

graves. We should spare a thought for Amber Rudd who David Cameron

told, those dogs have gone off to live on a farm in Devon. It is

shameful. It is shameful that the work in coalition that we began to

deliver this is being unpacked. But should be leading the world in the

green economy and setting an example to other nations at the UN talks in

Paris. So, the Tories got just 37% of the vote with a tiny majority of

12 investments. As a result, they are under immense pressure shortly.

Well, that should be the case, instead, they act with a swaggering

sense of invalidity and we have laboured to blame for that. Labour

make me genuinely angry, not because they've been taken over by the kind

of people that used to try and sell newspapers outside the students

union, not because they have a Socialist leader, but because they

now have the most useless opposition in the history of British politics.

APPLAUSE -- they are.

The Tories are getting away with cutting Universal Credit for the

hardest working, poorest paid people. Scrapping the green deal,

dehumanising the refugees we should be helping because they are not

being held to account. What an outrage. Labour have left the field

of play. Lib Dems now fill that space.

APPLAUSE Labour seem now only to want to talk

about themselves to themselves, not about the people to the people.

I say let's speak to the people about the people, to Britain about

Britain, a better Britain, but whilst Labour might be a joke in

Westminster, in England, Scotland, they are no joke in Wales. Jeremy

Corbyn needs to understand that, in this part of the UK, his party are

still in Government and his legacy to the people of Wales is one of

failure. Take health is just one of those. Under Labour, Welsh patients

have longer waiting times for ambulances, A, heart operations,

that is truly shocking when you think that Wales is governed by a

party that has spent over 60 years pretending that the NHS is entirely

their idea. It wasn't, by the way. Bevan was a liberal, Lloyd George

was a liberal, Aneurin Bevan stood on his shoulder. Just saying.

APPLAUSE But Labour have an insurance plan.

They know that if they get into trouble in the elections in May they

can rely on nationalists to prop them up. I was on question Time with

Leanne Wood a couple of weeks ago and she was very nice but there is

absolute in no point whatsoever in voting for her. She's made it

totally clear that if no party has a majority, she will only do a deal

with Labour. So if you vote Labour, you get Labour. If you vote Plaid

Cymru, you get Labour. You want to make a difference, you vote for the

Welsh Liberal Democrats. APPLAUSE

Weather on the NHS, education or the economy, Labour has failed to

deliver and expect Wales to fall behind the rest of the UK and that

is why I am so proud of Kirsty and the team here in the Welsh Liberal

Democrat group and the Assembly. Kirsty has the talent, tenacity and

vision to energise our supporters and to challenge the stable status

quo. I don't know if you realise this, within Wales, but throughout

the UK, Kirsty is clearly and unanimously recognised as the

standout leader in Welsh politics. We are very, very proud of her and

some leaders like David Cameron and Carwyn Jones are all talk and no

action, that is certainly not the case with Kirsty for the powder I

know that? Because what she is already done. I saw Kirsty

spearheaded the campaign in Wales to stop regional pay. She and the party

he campaigned tirelessly to get ministers to intervene, the Welsh

party to be promoted to the Federal conference and one, and Westminster

backed down. That was a real victory for Kirsty, real action, not just

words, but Kirsty and the Welsh Liberal Democrats delivering for the

people of Wales and then continuing the fight for devolution, the Silk

Commission only came into being because Kirsty was relentless in

insisting it had to be part of the coalition agreement from the Silk

Commission is come the further devolution of tax powers and energy

powers, all real achievements. Real action, not just words, Kirsty and

the Welsh Liberal Democrats are seen over and over again delivering for

the people of Wales. If only Jenny was still our Minister in the bus

office to keep the Tories feed to the fire over the Welsh bill. Kirsty

's action does not stop there. A couple of days ago, her nurses built

past its penultimate stage, the first time anywhere in the UK

hospitals were required to ensure safe staffing levels of nurses. If

you want to see a party committed to the NHS in Wales, as the rest of the

UK, it is the Liberal Democrats. Now, as much of a fan of hours

Kirsty, she couldn't achieve all that alone. So let me say now thank

you to Peter Black, Eluned Parrott, William Powell, Richard Roberts for

all you're doing for the Welsh Liberal Democrats and you are the

reason there was a Welsh Liberal Democrats, you're the reason there

are thousands more apprentices, and you are the reason there is a young

person's bus pass, what you have achieved with your small team is

vital. I wish you every success in the forthcoming elections. And I'm

also massively proud of my mate, Mark. There you are. He speaks for

Wales with a passionate voice in the House of Commons and stands up for

Wales but of all the other Welsh ministers put together. You need to

increase your numbers in Westminster in 2020, but we will come to that in

time. APPLAUSE

So, thank you. I said I was out on the doorsteps

with Eluned earlier in the week but Liz Evans, Jane Dodds, Veronica,

they're all campaigning incredibly well to join Kirsty. Kirsty already

has two more women in a group of five than I have in my group of

eight, wouldn't it be absolutely fantastic to see Liz, Jane and

Veronica join her? I need them there, you need them there in Wales.

Wales needs them there. APPLAUSE

Almost 106 years ago, David Lloyd George made a speech at Queen 's

Hall in London. He reflected on how tenants have

been turned out of their houses by the Tory landlords in 1868 for

having failed to vote Liberal and let Liberal MPs for Supply George

said how that challenge the ruling classes broke the spirit of the

mountains, the genie of freedom. Well, friends, today, we need to

challenge Labour's arrogant sense of entitlement to rule. They act like

they are the landlords of Wales, that you have no right to even

consider voting any other way. We will not have that. We need to wake

the spirit again today, we have a proud tradition of liberalism in

Wales, standing up for our communities for over 150 years, we

need to give voice to those communities in 2016. Many will stand

for the National Assembly from other parties in May so they can hold

office and their titles but liberals stand to make a difference. Between

now and May the 5th, I need you to wake and that liberal spirit on

every doorstep, encouraging given, Cardiff Central, Montgomery, Brecon

and Radnor and across this nation and take advantage of the fact that

people are desperate for something authentic and true, to challenge

those who presume to rule as, at who fail us. In Kirsty, you have the

standout leader in Welsh politics and I am looking at the stand out

team punching above your weight, you deserve victory but you will not get

it by accident, only by fighting with passion, beliefs, discipline

and energy, so get out there, get on the doorstep, rain, wind and maybe

even shine, victory is there to be won. I need you to win Wales needs

you to win. Thank you. APPLAUSE

They loved it in the hall, did they love it beyond? We'll find out in

the election. Tim Farron there, after that drubbing in May. With 10

MPs is he finding it difficult to be heard? It is very difficult, in

Prime Minister's Questions, where traditionally the Liberal leader

receives two questions, now those questions gets those. He is called

the same number of times as Plaid Cymru tore SNP leader. They don't

get the attention they used to get on television, radio programmes or

the press. He has all sorts of disadvantages. On top of that he is

facing a set of elections you would think would normally be the start of

a new cycle of elections. The general election is over, that's the

end of one cycle but the start of another. I don't think these feel

like this. The Scottish, the Welsh election, the London Mayoral

election, they feel to me like the election election obvious the last

cycle. This is where this group of bodies is going to catch one what's

already happened in Westminster more than likely. The new electoral cycle

starts with next year's local elections. I think this is going be

a painful couple of months for the Liberal Democrats, for Tim Farron.

Part of what he has to do is minimise the damage and maintain

morale. I think this is a nasty little period that will be

confronting them. It is only after that they can begin on a proper

rebuilding process. I suppose he was elected before Jeremy Corbyn, and

that clears the pitch for the Liberal Democrats and their

positioning. There are people within the Liberal Democrats who will say

if we had known it was going to be Jeremy Corbyn who won the Labour

leadership we might not have supported Tim Farron but the other

candidate, Norman Lamb. They thought they were getting a new Charles

Kennedy, someone to the left of the Labour Party, someone who is an

attractive and warm personality as far as the public are concerned. If

you are trying to find space to the left of Jeremy Corbyn you are

somewhere around the international Marxist group or the Workers' Party.

Is Tim Farron the sort of person who can carve out a space in the centre

for the Liberal Democrats? That's not instinctively where he is. It is

quite a difficult position. But in Wales is that space there for the

party in Wales, when you look at Welsh Labour as opposed to Jeremy

Corbyn's Labour? I'm not sure the voters differentiate in that way.

There is in the Assembly election an opportunity to try and fight a

change campaign. Labour have been in power, depending on how you look at

it it is either 16 years since the foundation of the Assembly or 19

years since 1997, when they took over the Wales Office. By all rules

of politics that should make this election in Wales a change election.

An election where the voters feel that it is time for a change. The

trouble is that you've got more than one party competing for that change

vote. The vagary obvious the Welsh electoral system make it very

difficult for any one of those parties to break clear. So if you

are voting for change in Wales would you vote for the Conservatives,

would you vote for Plaid Cymru, would you vote for Ukip? All of e-I

suspect are more likely than a vote for the Liberal Democrats. They've

set they are happy to hitch to any other party, is that attract

incentive. The alternative is to say we are not talking to so and so.

That's why they try and avoid talking to those things. You have to

wait and see the numbers. Thank you Vaughan. Plenty more to talk about.

Let's go over to the conference centre and our political

I've got two candidates with me. I will start with you Veronica first

of all. How do you think the conference has gone so far? I think

it's been really positive. It seems only two minutes ago since we were

at our last conference, in the autumn in Swansea. People have been

campaigning through the winter months and coming back with stories

that are really positive. Got a bit of a spring this their step, which

is great. When you are thinking about that spring in their step that

might be surprising given last year and the problems. Have you been

surprised at how the party's been able to bounce back? Absolutely. In

my region we've nearly doubled our membership since then. All these new

people coming in, they've always supported us in the past but never

put pen to paper and said yes, I want to be a member. That's given us

a new impetus that we didn't have before. It is good to have new

blood, because it makes you think again how do you things and the way

you do things. They have fresh ideas. That's really beneficial. Liz

Evans, it is one thing to have new blood and members but the real

difficulty is getting people to return this their thousands. How

does the party begin to rebuild? We are a resilient bunch. We just keep

coming back. But there's a need for us in Welsh politics. That's clear

when we are on the doorstep. A lot of us have been on the doorstep for

months and the support is clearly there. I see that in Ceredigion and

talking to candidates in Wales they are seeing it as well. I was

listening this morning to Tim Farron saying that Wales is the beating

heart of liberalism, yet the general election last year and the European

elections 2014, Wales has a lower share the vote than England and

Scotland. People seem to be turning away from the Liberal Democrats, in

Wales. Why is that? I don't know, to be honest with you. We lost our way

didn't we, and we were punished last year severely for the coalition. We

were very lucky in Ceredigion to return Mark Williams but we lost

Roger and Jenny in Cardiff. But we have to put that behind us now.

There's a need for the Liberal Democrats in Welsh politics. We have

to keep knocking on those doors. What is clear, I think a lot of

people, it is like be careful what you wish for isn't it, we look now

at the Government we've got in Westminster and clearly the

coalition Government wasn't that bad, as far as getting our policies

across. You talk about the coalition, the Government in

Westminster, what about the Government in Cardiff Bay. We've

heard attacks on their record on delivery. What do you think will be

the main challenges for you now to try and get that message across on

the doorstep? I think we've got a clear opportunity with the NHS and

with Kirsty's Safer Nursing Levels Bill. People are beginning to

realise that we have stood still on the NHS. It has got worse here in

Wales, where they might look, I'm not saying everything is perfect in

England, it is not, but they expect more. They feel as if this is the

home of the NHS and yet things aren't happening that should be

happening. And yet they can see that we as a party are doing something.

Even as a party in opposition, we are still managing to make

improvements. One of the things that stuck me is this focus I've heard

about, getting the basics right. Relentlessly focusing on the public

service delivery. Does that mean that in the past you think you have

spent too much time talking about the constitution, voter reform

rather than the bread and butter issues? I think if you get those

things right, the constitution, the voter reform right, it is much

easier to make the other changes. Have you not got them right in the

past? So maybe, I still think that's really important. I'm one of those

really sad people that joined the Liberal? Party, as it was, because

of proportional representation. That's in my psyche, it is about

fairness. We are a party that absolutely believes in fairness,

whether it is to do with voting or access to NHS or to have a fair

education for everybody. We met in a school yesterday in Cardiff and we

were discussing the plan to cap infant class sizes at 25 pupils. You

said something that was interesting, that is not necessarily going to fly

in an area like Ceredigion where it is rural schools. Large class sizes

aren't a problem. How will you get that message across? It is very

different in Ceredigion and rural Wales. The situation doesn't play.

In Cardiff they make an application. Some of the schools are 30-plus

children. My point is in Ceredigion where that doesn't really apply it

is not going be a great vote winner for you, is it? No, and it is

something I possibly won't be pinpointing as much. Where we have

benefited from is Kirsty's deal with the Welsh Government regarding the

pupil premium. People say that's a huge success, I see that as a

Governor of two schools. It is horses for courses. Certain policies

will not fit for rural Wales. But the bigger challenge, they will do.

The threat, as somebody standing on the list, the threat you are

expecting from Ukip. I guess they are not necessarily going to be the

same voters going for Ukip but you may lose out because people are

giving their second votes to Ukip. Is that a problem? Ukip are there,

you can't ignore them. All of a sudden the party that didn't believe

in the National Assembly, would rather have a Welsh grand committee

of MPs rather than a national assembly, suddenly see this as an

opportunity to get people elected, not because they believe in the

institution but it gives them a platform. In the general election a

lot of people voted for Ukip, but they can see that do they really

want them running our health service here in Wales? Do they really want

them running our education system. Do they really want people

parachuted from England, economic migrants like Mark Reckless, coming

to Wales to take jobs off people here? Tim Farron was calling them a

bunch of English nationalists. Isn't that disrespectful for the tens of

thousands of voters who voted for them in the last election? They came

close to being the main party two years ago. People see Ukip and see

them as an alternative, because Farage is very clever at getting his

point across. He isn't a politician. But he is a politician. Anybody who

stands for office and gains office is a politician. This idea, that

they are different from everyone else. You ask people about some of

the policies and they don't actually believe in those policies but they

might have voted for Ukip. They fell for the dream. I think that dream is

beginning to disappear now and they'll see them for what they are.

They don't have the best interests of Wales at heart. Thank you both

very much. These two claiming they would have the best interests of

Wales at heart, and Ukip would have a different view. Back to you in the

studio, Bethan. Thank you Arwyn. We've heard from the party's UK

leader, now let's hear the speech of the Welsh leader,

Kirsty Williams. She spoke just before we came

on air, and was introduced by the party's only

Welsh MP, Mark Williams. We all know that Kirsty has been a

superb Assembly Member for Brecon and Radnorshire, since the inception

of the National Assembly, working closely with the late and

much-missed Richard Livesey and our party President, Roger Williams. I

know how tirelessly she works on behalf of Brecon and Radnorshire,

not least because in a previous life I was a constituents of Kirsty and

Roger Williams in Brecon and Radnorshire. Every week in my office

in the House of Commons we would tune in to First Minister's

Questions in the National Assembly. There's a predictability, a happy

and necessary predictability about the lambasting Kirsty Williams gives

our First Minister. I was at college with Carwyn Jones many years ago.

Kirsty is far more effective in the National Assembly than any of us

were in those student days in Aberystwyth many years ago. I say

necessary because if you work with the challenges of Labour's running

of the NHS in Wales, and we do in Ceredigion in our hospital and in

our services is, you know how important the messages that Kirsty

Williams on Labour failing our NHS. She is unquestionably one of the

greatest communicators of her age. Anybody listening to Any Questions

would know that. My spies tell me even the Tories were reeling in the

audience at Kirsty Williams' performance. Ladies and gentlemen,

all elections are challenges. We all know that in this party. All

elections are challenges, but I feel confident in this coming election

that not only as Tim said this morning we have a strong and

experienced team to put forward to the people of Wales. Not only do we

have the message to put forward to Wales. But by God we've got the best

leader to put to the people of Wales. Ladies and gentlemen, Kirsty

Williams, AM. APPLAUSE.

Thank you, Mark. Conference, I had a dream... OK, you may have heard that

one before but, as we head into our fifth set of elections since the

start of the Assembly, I think back to the time it was first

established. I was excited, enthusiastic, full of hope, we had a

dream, liberals have been fighting the home rule for over 100 years and

this was our chance. You know, I made my first media appearance

during the run-up to the 97 referendum, I had the midnight

shift, being interrogated by Andrew Neil. Sure, I was nervous, of course

I was, I couldn't quite believe that I was sitting there on the sofa next

to these professional politicians allowed only ever seen on

television. But what overrode my nerves that night was the

excitement, the excitement because we were on the cusp of achieving all

that we had hoped for. We had campaigned over 100 years for this

moment. For Welsh devolution to bring power closer to the people.

Nearly two decades later, though, ask yourself has that happened? You

know, the Welsh Government was meant to understand Wales' needs better

than Whitehall bureaucrats or politicians in Westminster, meant to

deliver Welsh solutions to our problems, meant to deliver for

Wales, don't get me wrong, culture, sport, the arts, you name it, Wales

punches well above its weight. We have so much to be proud of and so

much to offer. But the truth is, the truth is that creating the Welsh

Government hasn't delivered for people. It certainly hasn't

delivered the high quality public services that people deserve and

expect. I ask you, put up your hand if you can think of one single

Labour policy that they are taking into this Assembly election. Go on,

anybody, just one. Just one? No. There's nothing. This Government is

tired, it has nothing to offer and it is bankrupt of ideas. And Wales

now has the dubious honour of having the longest surviving Government in

Europe. Well, that is unless you want to count the leader of Belarus.

In office for 17 years, and leading for none of them. Conference, let me

be clear, the passion I felt on that night of the referendum has never

died. I still have that dream, I still believe, I still have that

hope. And I still know that Wales can achieve that dream. But I say to

people. Don't blame devolution because the Welsh Government hasn't

delivered. Don't blame devolution for the fact that people's voices

remain ignored. Don't blame devolution for 16 years of failing

standards. Blame Welsh Labour. APPLAUSE

In creating the Welsh Government, we were promised a new politics, in

touch with our communities, a politics in which Wales took

responsibility for its own decisions, but above all else, we

were promised letter outcomes yet this Government fails to even get

the basics right. You know, it may come as a shock to politicians but

people don't expect the world. Believe it or not, they don't want

Government on their back day in, day out. They just want their taxes

spent on good public services that these services are failing to meet

our needs. And in the up-and-coming elections, we Welsh Liberal

Democrats will show our vision of a future for the Welsh Parliament that

finally gives people what they want. Now it was said we have to do little

things. It is the little things that add up to make a big difference. It

is the nurse, the nurse who gives that extra bit of care and attention

to a frail, elderly person. Making them feel like they really matter.

That adds up to excellent health care for all patients. It is the

teacher who goes out of her way to help a child read. Multiply that

across Wales, but adds up to great schools for all our pupils and

parents. The housing officer working with the homeless, going that extra

mile to ensure that everyone can have a roof over their head adds up

to a country that cares about all its citizens. For too long, Labour

has settled for second best. Well, I won't. We won't. We will take Wales

forward to a better future, a small country that dares to think big,

hopeful, optimistic, pioneering, full of belief in Wales' future.

That is what the Welsh Liberal Democrats will offer at this

election. APPLAUSE

I was struck recently when I read a speech by the Prime Minister of

Canada, a fellow liberal, who said, "Leadership should be focused on

extending the ladder of opportunity for everyone." Extending the ladder

of opportunity for everyone. Such wise words. Underpinned by the

reality that being in Government is about setting priorities. You know,

at home, like any mother, I'm constantly fighting to give my

children the best of opportunities, the ones I necessarily didn't have

growing up, always wanting more for them, striving for them to be the

best they can be. But the truth is I feel that passion for my country,

too. Always fighting for better, fighting for more, fighting for

Wales to reach its potential. And for Wales to reach that potential,

we must have the right priorities. Now, Labour's health minister in

what has begun to look like something of a vanity project, has

spent a large proportion of the last year battling to ban e-cigarettes in

public places contrary to scientific evidence. Now, while he's been doing

that, in the meantime, nearly 2000 people languished over 12 hours in

A departments, over 1000 desperately young people waited over

two months to access mental health services, 25,000 Welsh citizens

waited over eight months on a hospital waiting list. That is

appalling. The Government has lost its way. Welsh Labour, well, they

just let that happen to them. They are not setting priorities and they

have lost touch with what people really want. And the Minister's

crusade over e-cigarettes is a perfect example of. That A story

involving Nero comes to mind. They have forgotten that the's language

of priority, they've got so many that actually, there's none in

reality. In contrast, we are clear, and we are focused, and we are in

touch with what people want. Our plan starts with improving access to

GPs, something that all families rely on. 40% of people say it is

difficult to get to see their GP. And that is why we will introduce a

fully funded access to GP scheme ensuring people get the appointments

when they need them. Investing in primary care and virtual wards,

providing support in the community to people the most compact needs and

therefore stopping avoidable admissions to hospitals. By doing

this, we would guarantee people the best treatment in the right place at

the right time to meet their needs. And we would also tackle the

ever-growing crisis on mental health services. Conference, I've recently

been trying to help a lady whose ten-year-old daughter has been

really suffering. We have been working flat out, battling to get

this poor girl the therapy that she needs but no one is willing to fund

it. The council have acknowledged that her mum is at serious risk of

physical harm. Yet the council's advice to that mum? If her daughter

kicks off? Phone the police. They would rather she calls the police to

her ten-year-old daughter than actually give her the support that

they both need. Conference, it is wrong in this day and age that such

an illness is treated as secondary, less important, as not serious.

Well, we say no more. No more neglect, no more abandonment, no

more sweeping it under the carpet. One in four people will experience

mental ill-health and it is vital we fix this broken system. We will

enshrine equal care for mental and physical health into law a

conference, we have lead on this issue, the proud we will do what is

right. You may have already anticipated the

next bit. More nurses. On Wednesday, our more nurses Bill faces its final

hurdle on the way to becoming law, a Welsh Lib Dem achievement that you

all have played a part in. You know, under Labour, our NHS makes all the

headlines for all the wrong reasons. And I'm sick of that. But because of

us, Wales will make the right headlines, being the first country

not just in the UK, but in Europe with a legal duty of safe staffing

levels. And still more can be done. This is just the beginning. My bill

is currently for acute hospitals but we will go further in the next

Parliament. We will expend this power so the bill covers mental

health wards, maternity, children, the community wards, too. You know,

Plaid Cymru want another expensive NHS reorganisation. By centralising

hospital services to be run from Cardiff. You know, that is not what

people want. Just stand on the doorstep in Aberystwyth. They think

Bron Glace is hard enough being run from Carmarthen. Meanwhile, the

Tories and Ukip want to take money from front line health services to

fund more politicians to run our NHS. My goodness me, that is not

what people want. It is not want the start of the NHS once, it's not what

the NHS want, we need less politics in the NHS in Wales, not more.

APPLAUSE If you think it's hard to recruit

and retain medics in the service we currently have, then just look what

will happen if Plaid Cymru or of the Tories or Ukip get their hands on

the NHS. Those medics will be out of here quicker than you can say... I

won't say it. LAUGHTER

But we, we are clear. In a way that Labour are not. Who knows what they

want to do next? Better access to your GP, that mental health

services, more nurses to support our loved ones. We know what people

want, we have the right parities. A vote for the Welsh Lib Dems will be

a vote to put patients first. APPLAUSE

Now part of my job is to think about what the Wales of the future could

be, or to be. It may seem obvious that the impact of new technology is

all encompassing. Disruptive, a revolution on a greater scale than

that of the Industrial Revolution. We don't know how it will end, but

we do know that it is happening at breakneck speed. This revolution or

as I see it, the contemporary challenge, changes every aspect of

our lives. From shopping or paying bills, watching films, planning a

holiday, learning new skills or gaining qualification, complaining

about a pothole mag orange sending a birthday card to your friend, this a

la contemporary challenge includes future tests and changes to our

democracy, to our taxation, changes to the way we educate children, and

changes the environment for Welsh businesses. Of course, our

contemporary challenge also includes anticipating the skills and

competencies required of the workforce of the future. Which means

getting our education system right today.

My husband and I have three daughters. Like all parents we have

aspirations for them. We want them to have choices, to get on in life,

to be happy, to be intellectually curious, to be fulfilled in their

futures. That's why we want them taught in good schools by great

teachers. I don't want my daughters or anyone else's children to lose

out in the future because they're in a failing school or in a packed,

overcrowded classroom with a stressed-out teacher. How can you

learn well in that environment? How can we expect our teachers to do our

best, teaching our children if classrooms are bulging at the seams.

Do you know the average class size in Wales is higher than nearly all

other developed countries? Over 71,000 pupils in Wales are taught in

classes of 25 or more in the infant age group. And these class sizes are

growing. They are getting bigger. Parents calls for smaller classes

have been ignored for too long. Do you know what really makes a

parent's blood boil? When those in charge aren't listening and just

don't care. Is anyone else fed up of having a First Minister that has the

air of a man winging it? You know, he's already confessed that he took

his eye off the ball when it came to education in Wales. That could have

been a generation of young people written off because of his

Government's complacency. I challenged him on this in the

chamber just a few weeks ago. His answer to my question was to respond

by telling me that his children were doing really well, so he's happy.

LAUGHTER. Well, that's great for him. But what about everybody else's

children? At the start of the year over 40,000 children were taught in

an education authority placed in special measures. Call me cynical

but it is quite a coincidence that 100 days before an election every

single one of those has been taken out of special measures. But what

the Welsh Government cannot engineer is the findings from the recent

report showing that the number of schools viewed as unsatisfactory has

increased. Our children deserve better. Our teaching profession

deserves better. Our number one education pledge in this election

will be to deliver smaller class sizes for all children. We will work

to ensure that infant classes normally contain no more than 25

pupils. This will be a key signal that we are the party that are on

the side of pupils and parents. We won't stop there. We will extend our

pupil premium, a policy that we secured in budget negotiations. And

a policy that again, according to the report, is already achieving

more in closing the attainment gap than anything Labour manage inside

over a decade. APPLAUSE. K APPLAUSE. Anything

Labour managed in over a decade. APPLAUSE. The Welsh Liberal

Democrats, the party of ideas, making a difference with this policy

that fights the notion that if you're poor, well, that's how it is

always going to be. That combats that even in this day and age your

background decides your destiny. This policy that gives people a

chance and and opportunity. Be in no doubt, conference, we are the party

of education. And, of course, the Liberals believe in good education,

as that's what freed people to be the very best that we can be. In

1911 Rose said the woman worker needs bread, but she needs roses

too. Too. For nearly half a century she campaigned for better working

conditions for American win. She fought for the bread, the basic

human rights everyone should be entitled to. But she knew there must

be more. There must be roses. Not only should Welsh people be survive

ing with. They should be thriving. Wales was once a land full of

aspiration, and we can be that again. Allowing people to make

something of themselves. Lves. Ambition, aspiration, opportunity -

these words must be the foundation stone of a future Wales. Whether

people are on low or middle income tax they share the same desires to

see aspiration rewarded. There's a giant space in Welsh politics for a

party to champion social responsibility. Conference, I claim

that space for us. Home ownership rates amongst under 25s have halved

in just two decades. Labour appears to have a sneering attitude to the

idea of home ownership, as if it is some sort of Cass wish list. I don't

understand that. Who wouldn't want their own place to sleep safe at

night in, to start a family in, to have good times in, to grow old in,

to call home. We will build 20,000 extra houses to help people achieve

their dream of owning their own home. Properly investing in people

in the future. We will support our small businesses, which can be one

of the most powerful engines for social mobility. Wales is the only

part of the UK where SME confidence is falling. That's incredibly

depressing. But we can turn it around. Small businesses are the

lifeblood of our country. It is a cliche because it is true. Cease to

be amazed by people who've taken the risk of starting up on their own,

starting their own business, give being the it a go in a very

competitive world. But Welsh businesses need to be alone. We will

create a small business administration, bringing independent

advice and finance together. Giving growing businesses the best chance

of success. We'll empower councils to be flexible with business rates,

energying them to be flexible with business rates,

energying -- encouraging them to invest in economic development.

We'll campaign to slash VAT to help our tourism industry to thrive and

create jobs forever. We will fix our broken broadband and mobile phone

technologies. Wales needs a Government the business can trust in

and a Government that trusts in the good of business.

APPLAUSE. Because we Welsh Liberal Democrats

are ambitious for Wales I have a big ask of you. You know, as well as I,

we have to reinvent the way we do politics. People are sick to death

of politicians telling them what's best for them. Which is why in the

run-up to this election I plan to spend as much time as possible

listening to the widest and not necessarily the loudest range of

voices here in Wales. Welsh voices is. That's what I'll be listening to

and that is what I want to hear. To help me, and my colleagues do that,

I need your help. Conference, today I'm asking you to help me ask Wales.

What I'm proposing is a new type of political campaigning, pavement

politics for the 21st century. There is no doubt in the election campaign

later this year all the political parties will seek to use digital

technology as a marketing tool, pushing information out to defined

groups of voters. Well, I want to turn that on its head. I want us to

use the power of digital technology to show that we are different to the

other parties, because we are actively seeking people's views. Of

our fellow citizens, the people who we seek to serve, the people who we

work for. Just as once David Penhaligon inspired a generation of

campaigners with the mantra, if you have something to say, stick it on a

piece of paper and stuff it through a letter box, I'm asking in this

hall who can to ask your family, your friends, your neighbours,

people you work with, just one question. If they were the First

Minister what is the first thing they would change? Ideally film that

person you've asked, or take a photograph. Pose it on Facebook, on

Twitter or write it down and send it to me. But please don't forget, do

ask permission first. No doubt our opponents will try and sabotage our

initiative. Who knows, they may even copy it. I don't care about that. I

want to know what people think the number one priority is for the next

Government. There's no right or wrong answers to the question, but

listening is the way that we will do our politics.

APPLAUSE. Conference, you trusted me with the

leadership of this great party seven years ago. I didn't used to dye my

hair then! LAUGHTER. As I look around the hall

today, I see many friends. People that I have campaigned alongside of.

People who've helped this party through those years. May I thank you

for your hard work, energy and loyalty over those seven years? You

know as well I as I hasn't always been easy. I can't pretend I

temperature imagined we would end up in a coalition with the Tories in

Westminster. I can't pretend those five years were comfortable. I also

can't pretend that last May wasn't anything but brutal. But we're Welsh

Liberal Democrats and we have never taken the easy route other. For me,

growing up in Llanelli, becoming a Welsh Liberal Democrat certainty

wasn't the easy choice. For the easy route it would have joined Labour.

Nah, unthinkable. We are not here for the ministerial cars, for the

fame, not here to give our mates jobs, not here to rule because we

think it is owed to us. No, not us. We are here for people. The outside

others working on the inside, working to keep that Assembly

honest. Asking the tough questions, raising the issues that other people

would prefer us to ignore, the only party with the guts to give people

the power to recall their AMs if they abuse their position. And never

forget, the only party that voted against the unfair rise in Assembly

Members' pay, because it was the right thing to do.

APPLAUSE. But also remember we are not in that Assembly just to oppose

for opposition's sake. We are there to deliver too. We used our

influence in Cardiff Bay to secure millions of pounds of investment in

schools the length and breadth of our country. For young people who

need support to access training and higher education we secured a scheme

so they could travel for free and have better opportunities for life.

We've supported our environment by stopping work on a ?1 billion M4

relief road because we know public transport is the priority. We

accused 5,000 apprenticeships so people can learn the life skills to

secure a decent job. The list goes on and on. All achieved with just

five Assembly Members. All achieved because we listen and then we act. I

asked the people of Wales to judge us on our record at the Assembly,

trust us to be on your side, trust us to fight for you. Trust us to

stand up for your communities. A better Wales. That was my dream in

the 1997 referendum. And a better Wales is my dream now. And we can

fulfil it. Trust us, and we can achieve that dream together. Thank

you. APPLAUSE. Kirsty Williams addressing

the conference it is a lunch time. The longest serving leader but

probably facing her tough test election so far. What was it like

for you. It was a well constructed speech and

a well delivered speech. But it contained within it some of the

contradiction it's, maybe problems is a better word, that party faces

in this coming election. For instance you had an attack on Labour

that was saying that Labour was stale, that they hadn't achieved

anything, that all these problems were because of 17 years of lazy

Labour Government. And the average voter might say to that, well, why

then are you prepared to consider going into coalition with Labour and

maintaining Labour in power? And then we had a second section which

was about health, which was attacking what would happen if the

Conservatives or Plaid Cymru were responsible for the health service.

She said you watch how fast the doctors would leave if those

happened. Well, the voter again would say, so why are you willing to

consider going into power with those people? I think that's always the

trouble for a smaller party when this coalition questions comes up.

It is Trude for are Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives as well, but to a

lesser extent. The you are saying trust us and the voter response

could well be, why should I trust you unless you will tell me what

you're going to do? I think that may be the contradiction, the dilemma

the party faces. It is not a criticism of what they're doing

really, because I don't know what the answer to that dilemma is. I

think it is a really difficult problem in a proportional

representation system nor a party that can't credibly claim that it is

about to win a majority or about to become the largest party. We can put

that dilemma to Kirsty Williams shortly. But given their situation

both in the Assembly, in Westminster, in the polls, whether

we believe them or not, they seem to need a game changer. When you look

at the ideas that they are going to focus on public services is, more

nurses, smaller class sizes, this digital campaigning. Tell us what

you think. Is there something there that's really going to boost their

numbers? I think not. The message they have constructive is a changed

message and I have no doubt were changed message is the correct

message for the selection. But I think this is an election where they

are going to have to scrap it out on the ground. You know, I think it's

about identifying your vote, getting it out, particularly in those key

constituencies that we've already mentioned, Cardiff Central, and

cumree, perhaps Ceredigion, as well, hoping... I think, in my view, it is

probably easier that the Lib Dems took constituency seat in this year

's election than it is for them to win list seats, because of the

impact Ukip is going to have on the threshold. So, if I was them, I

would be pouring everything into those target seats under more less

letting the lists take care of themselves. Thank you very much, for

now. I'm pleased to say Kirsty Williams can join us now live from

the conference. Good afternoon. Are you worried you're facing wipe-out

as a party in these elections? Nice to talk to, Bethan, and I think you

remember we had a similar conversation in the run-up to the

last election where journalists were predicting wipe-out and became back

with five Assembly members, and they have been working very, very hard to

with five Assembly members, and they keep the Labour Government under

pressure for their failings, but we've also been using our influence

to deliver policies we've had in our manifesto, such as ensuring we put

more money into the education of our poorest children, so it's a

challenge but it's a challenge we are up for. You need to do better

than he did last time just to stand still, don't you? In terms of seat,

what are you predicting you will hold onto? I never predict the

outcome of elections. That is a fool 's game. My job is to articulate why

people should go out and vote for the Welsh Liberal Democrats in this

election. And also to remind them that, just because we have had 16-17

years of devolution which has not delivered for them, it doesn't have

to be that way. We can have a Welsh Government that ensures that when

people want to see a GP that I've had to wait three weeks. When their

child is an overcrowded classroom, it doesn't have to be that way. Just

because you're on a low wage, you always have to stay there. We can

fix the Welsh economy, improve the education system and deliver a

first-class health care system. We just need a different Government to

do it. You are talking about your dream and how it has been shattered

and how you don't want a continuation of a Labour Government.

Don't blame devolution, you said, blame Welsh Labour. Why would you as

a party contemplate putting them back in power? If you speak to

people on the streets like I do, people underestimate how cheesed off

many people are with the failure of Welsh Government to deliver for

them. It's my job to show those people that we have new ideas, fresh

ideas and energy that can make a difference to the lives... Sorry to

interrupt, but just to be clear, you're not saying you're going to

form a Government because a leap from five to more than 30 is huge,

even you would acknowledge that, wouldn't you? Bethan, we've been the

smallest group of the National Assembly of the past five years but

we have been able to put in extra resources for education... OK, we're

talking about a potential coalition. Dot. If we can do that with five,

imagine what we can do with more Assembly members. We are talking

about a potential coalition. Would you therefore, having just spent

your whole speech saying how terrible Welsh Labour is, still prop

them up as a Government? That question does not arrive at this

time. I don't believe another Labour administration that we have

witnessed over the last five years is the change Welsh people need and

devolution needs. So you would not go into partnership with them? We

will not fix our problems here and Wales if we have another five years

of Labour sitting back believing that they have got a God-given right

to run Wales because they are Labour. It doesn't have to be this

way. There can be an alternative and the Welsh Lib Dems want to be a part

of that alternative so we can give people devolution that delivers for

them, improve the education system, delivers a decent health care

service for them and a strong economy, which gives people the

dignity of a well-paid job and we will not get that if we have another

year of Labour sitting back believing it's a God-given right to

run that Assembly. But you'd still do a deal with them? I can't predict

what the electorate will do. All I can do is appeal to them to say to

them, it doesn't have to be this way. OK, let's look at the

alternative. Welsh Lib Dems have ideas and we would love the

opportunity to put them into practice. Potentially, let's say the

Conservatives are closer to form a Government. Would you back them up?

One minute you're saying I'm going to back the Labour Party next money

your say I'm going to back the Tories. What I'm going to do with

the Lib Dem Assembly members is to actually change things. Tell me

won't do either. What I'm going to do is use my influence to ensure

that we can ensure that if people want a GP appointment they can get

that appointment, when they go to hospital there will be more nurses

on the ward to care for them. When their youngsters want to buy their

first home they will be an affordable home available for them.

There will be well-paid jobs for Welsh workers. We have been able to

achieve many things over the last five years with just five Assembly

members, nobody in the Cabinet. We have won the power of our given. If

we can do that with five members can imagine what we could do with the

ideas we have and what family members. You got your fingers burned

in Westminster, with a coalition. You didn't enjoy that period seeing

David Cameron and Nick Clegg being shoulder to shoulder. You know

Electric could do some good to say, if you don't fret, don't worry, we

will not back a potential Tory Government in Wales. Why not say

that and be honest and just come out say that? I am being truthfully

honest, my priorities are getting Welsh Lib Dems are elected. And

ensuring we can use that influence to deliver on the policies that we

think will fix what's wrong with devolution at the moment. That is my

job. What happens after the election I can assure the people of Wales I

will be relentless in trying to ensure we have a health service that

treats people properly, a strong economy and an education system that

make sure our kids are equipped for the future challenges of their life.

So you won't rule out Ukip? Would you ever do a deal that involved

Ukip? I'm not quite sure what Ukip bring to the debate in the Assembly.

The only policies I've heard them say if they want to bring extra

politicians into running the health service. I think that's what the

health service needs like a hole in the head. I simply don't know what

that party once. Then shipping in candidates are used to be MPs in

parts of the south-east of England, I really don't believe they

understand the true needs of the people of Wales and I don't think

they play a positive contribution in the Assembly. Is that a no? As I

said, I have little idea what they think they're going to achieve in

Wales. It seems to me they spend their time arguing about whether

they should have local Welsh candidates or ship in people have

been kicked out of Westminster for all sorts of reasons and tried to

parachute them into Wales. I have no idea what else they hope to achieve.

Just on policy, you want smaller class sizes, which implies more

teachers. You want more nurses, these are not cheap policies, are

they? Will we get full costings and where the money would come from

before the election? You know me, my party always publishes a fully

costed manifesto before each Assembly election. We want to be

credible. We want to make sure were not promising things back on to be

delivered. We know for instance that the policy on smaller class sizes,

the cost of delivering that, we will create a special grant to be used to

employ more teachers, or if a school is to be made ergo, there will be

money available for that and people can trust us. When we work in

Government before, we had a policy that did just that. We delivered on

that. We have a track record and will have fully costed plans. With

nurses, we do know that by relying on agency nurses like about NHS

does, that's a really expensive way of manning the wards, and creating

an environment where nurses want to have full-time positions, actually

in the medium to long-term, it will make the NHS more sustainable and be

better for the taxpayer and will deliver sustainable hospital

services, too. We heard about getting people to tell you basically

what they would do if they were First Minister digitally. If you

were First Minister, what would be the first thing you would do on your

first day in office? Oh my goodness me. I would scrap the Assembly

members pay rise which I think it's outrageous. I would then look to

ensure that week raided an authority that could help small businesses

thrive, to give people job opportunities. I would extend the

law to ensure we have saved numbers of nurses and hospital wards. It

would be impossible to decide what to do first because there's so much

in Wales but needs to be fixed. That will make devolution possible and we

could live up to the 1997 promises. Welsh Lib Dems are up for the

challenge and we have got those ideas and would relish the

opportunity to put them into practice. Kirsty Williams, thank you

very much for your time this afternoon light at the conference

there. The South Wales Central

AM, Eluned Parrott, She accused the Welsh Government

of lacking urgency over helping the steel industry and said that

Wales needed a distinctive economic The tragedy of Labour is 17 years of

failure is that so many people have been left behind. Behind every job

loss headline a family faces an uncertain future and individuals are

forced abruptly to rebuild their lives from scratch. It makes me

furious to watch a Government that has, at times, scratched around for

somebody else to blame. On steel, I've watched the warning signs are

that industry in trouble not for months but for years. I've stood up

in the chamber and ask the Minister to do something about it, to cut

business rates on heavy machinery, demand the highest standards in our

procurement policy, make sure no imports are ever used in our

Government contracts. This is not abstract but to protect livelihoods

and communities. I've heard back time and time again we'll think

about it. And yes, I know the Welsh Government can't do everything. But

since when was that an excuse to do nothing? 17 years since the Welsh

Assembly was founded, is the Welsh economy in a better place? Is it?

For 17 years, Labour have been the largest party, that's been 17 years

of managed in Ayrshire. In the good years, while the rest of the UK

economy grew, Wales was left behind and in the badgers, Wales has been

hit hardest by a recession. The productivity gap between the UK and

Wales is 30% and the gap is growing, not closing. Welsh workers on

average paid 80% of the UK average and why? Because there was a

structural problem the Welsh economy that nobody is trying to tackle. And

that is this. The Welsh economy is characterised by a huge number of

micro-businesses at the one end of the scale and at the other, by big

multinational companies with branch operations here. We lack the

stronger medium sized businesses that are the key to a sustainable

economy. And put simply, that means Wales can't whether the mildest of

storms. When times are tough, the smallest businesses lack the deep

pockets they would need to tide them over. And those shallow rooted

multinationals cut back their branches in Wales to protect that

global dream. Without a class of middle sized businesses, our economy

falters and the reality is that there are no short-term answers to

these problems. To properly close that productivity gap and close it

for good, we need a plan to build sustainable growth, through

resolving that structural problem. We need to end a kind of chocolate

box politics which offers a shiny new name with the same hackneyed old

ideas and whether Labour or Plaid Cymru have been the driving seat,

all they've done is reinvent the wheel. The wheels fell off sometime

ago folks. The Lib Dems alone are calling for a new direction, a

long-time internationalist economic plan which fixes the foundations,

brings balanced growth to our economy and allows our deeply rooted

industry is of enterprise to grow and develop. So what of the

Conservatives? Well, we are used to them telling us about the party of

business but that does not actually make it true. The Conservatives want

to take us back to 1976, by recreating the WDA, lock stock and

barrel. To be fair, but left a throwback than many of the other

policy areas, but it achieved them, it's not what we need now. In its

heyday of course the WDA did bring jobs as many of Wales' traditional

industries died but recreating it now will just reinforce the weakness

at the heart of our economy. We need to change it fundamentally for ever.

There is a well trodden truism in British politics that if you create

the right conditions, and economy will grow by itself. It's a concept

that was a core of Thatcherism and held fast by Tony Blair and Gordon

Brown. But it never worked for Wales. And it never will. It is

simply not enough to copy what everyone else is doing when you are

already this far behind. If you're only ever aping what your friends

are doing at the other end of the M4, you can only ever hoped at the

very best to do is keep pace, you will never close the gap and we're

not even doing that very well. We will never bridge of the economic

divide unless we choose to do something different. Only the Welsh

Lib Dems recognise that to change Wales' fate, we must change.

Time for another speech from this morning.

Peter Black is the AM for South Wales West and told

the conference that May's elections were a big challenge

but they have a manifesto to deal with it.

Devolution did make great promises back in 1999, that it would be

different. Different. That Cardiff would understand this better than

London did. But too much of Wales from rural Powys and Ceredigion, to

urban Swansea, Newport and wrecks ham, even parts of Cardiff feel left

behind by Cardiff by and Welsh Labour. The main challenges facing

the Welsh Government will be building effective and

people-centred public services, such as the NHS during budget pressures.

Growing our economy for the benefit of all and giving everyone in

society the opportunity to get on in life for themselves and their

families. We can only do this and Wales can only reach its potential

if we make the most of our country's strengths. Our culture, our

resources, and, most of all, our people. We need good governance by a

Government that values transparency and scrutiny, accountability and

local empowerment. In the Assembly Welsh Liberal Democrats have driven

this forward in recent years, scoring major victories for

liberalism and social mobility. In budget deals we've introduced a

pupil premium, the youth concessionary first scheme, the

intermediate care fund and Help to Buy, and the 5,000 apprenticeships.

Apprenticeships. On subjects as important and diverse as the economy

and health, further and higher education, the environment and

energy, local government and democratic reform. As our fightback

last summer we spoke to over 100 members, many of them only having

joined up since May, talking about the policies and campaigns we wanted

to push forward in the run-up to May 2016. We've engaged with members

online, with policy surveys and local events, and engaged with the

third sector, talking to charities and experts, many of whom join us

here today. This motion builds on the manifesto motion we debated at

Swansea conference last year, passed unanimously and unamended, a ringing

endorsement of our plan going forward. Our policy committee have

debated these issues at great length and brought them to you today. In

this party it is the members who make policy. We don't dictate it

from the centre like Labour, the Conservatives and Ukip. We form our

policies by talking to people, learning and listening. We have our

policies now in this motion and in the manifesto. Now what we need to

do is go out and spread these to the people of Wales. Knock on doors,

make phone calls, talk to people. The only way people will know of our

ideas is to make Wales a better place for us all is if we go out

there and tell them. We have the policies and we have the ideas which

can actually make devolution a success once more. Conference, are I

commend this motion to you and ask you to support it and to give us

your wholehearted endorsement, because these are the policies that

will make a difference to Wales, to our communities, for our neighbours

and our friends and everybody else living this this country. It will

make a difference to our public services is, because we can deliver,

the Welsh Liberal Democrats have a track record of delivering, and we

will deliver again in the next Assembly. Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE. Vaughan, they talk about delivering

all the time, but to deliver real policies, as we were talking to

Kirsty Williams, there they would have to form a coalition.

Interesting that all options are on the table. It is a dilemma isn't it,

if you are in the position of a party that can't claim that it is

going to form a Government either a majority or alt least lead a

minority Government or a coalition. If you start losing things out, as

Leanne Wood has done did, you would get the attacks she has received

from the Liberal Democrats. Vote Plaid Cymru, get Labour, as Tim

Farron said earlier. But if you say nothing, people will say, why should

I buy a pig in a poke? You say you are going to concentrate on these

policies, but who are you going to negotiate with? Which of those

policies are you prepared to drop? Which are you going to insist on

keeping? And what are your personal ambitions in terms of ministries? It

is incredibly difficult. I don't think there is an easy answer for

the political parties. I'll don't blame Kirsty Williams for trying to

keep all her options open. Although it does surprise me she didn't close

the Ukip option down. I would have thought for a party which at its

heart has... We heard that passionate defence from Tim Farron

earlier about the treatment of refugees, about Calais, about

Ostend, Syria. Can you really imagine a party with that at its

heart and soul seriously willing to do a deal with Ukip? I find it very

difficult to understand why she wasn't prepared to close that one

down. Any coalition deal, we are looking into the future now, could

be against an EU referendum. That could be the backdrop to this,

another extra dimension. That's true, but it is important to

remember that the formation of a Government in Cardiff Bay is very

different from the formation of a Government in Westminster. In

Westminster, to form a Government you have to get the support of 50%

plus 1 of MPs. So you have to build a coalition quickly. Now, in Wales,

that's not the ways. You elect a First Minister with a plurality of

AMs. In other words, the personal who gets the most votes. Even if it

is only 20 out of 60 becomes First Minister. So you can have a longer

process where deals are discussed and done. I suspect what you might

well get, because if the euro referendum is in June you might well

get the election of a First Minister in May with the real discussions

about Government formation taking place after that referendum was out

of the way, once the temperature was beginning to cool down a bit

politically, and once it was clear what sort of Europe and United

Kingdom Wales is going to be a part of. If you talk about an alternative

to a Labour Government in Wales, we are talking about the so-called

rainbow coalition aren't we? We know that Plaid Cymru wouldn't be part of

that, so we are talking about what's left, the Conservatives, Ukip

potentially, and the Liberal Democrats, would that be a runner?

Well, it is highly unlikely that would get to 30 votes. I cannot

imagine a coalition Government that includes Ukip and the Liberal

Democrats any more that I could imagine Ukip and Plaid Cymru

incidentally. There are many more forms of government in the Assembly

system than perhaps the Westminster system throws up. For instance, say

you had a minority Labour Government, something very unlikely

to do deals with either Ukip or the Conservatives. If they didn't have

Plaid Cymru and the the Lib Dems to play off you could get a minority

Labour Government, could govern quite effectively by doing a deal on

the budget last year. Alex Salmond managed to govern like that in

Scotland. He only had one more MSP than the Labour Party did, yet he

was able to pick out deals with the Conservatives and the Liberal

Democrats on individual votes and he survived the full term as a minority

Government. You mustn't assume as you assume at Westminster that a

Government that doesn't have a majority is necessarily unstable. In

a devolved institution that's not necessarily the case. Thank you

Vaughan. Let's go back to Arwyn Jones, at the Conference Centre.

Centre. A few guests I think. You've been talking to the federal leader

haven't you? Yes. Just to clarify one thing, I said earlier on there

were around 150 delegates here. I'm reliably informeded that 150 is the

official number, but on top of that another 100 or so are milling behind

me, representing charities and organisations. One of those is a

giant red squirrel. I don't know if they count that in the official

figures. Earlier this morning I spoke to Tim Farron, the UK leader

of the Liberal Democrats. It is nearly seven months since he was

elected as leader last July. When he was elected in his speech he said,

after those disappointing sets of results until the general election,

the fightback starts now. So when I met with him earlier I asked how

that fightback was going. We make no assumptions, you have to deal with

the world in which you are in, you have an incredibly arrogant

Conservative Government, only a majority of 12 across Westminster,

and yet with what appears to be an unvulnerable position. And a Labour

Party in Wales which by all independentage assess has let Wales

down. We are lacking serious opposition. A situation in

Westminster where nice though Jeremy Corbyn is, he has vacated serious

politics. And in Wales if you our by-election wins in Brecon and

Wrexham show that the Liberal Democrats are fighting back. Under

Kirsty Williams we have a standout leader in Wales. At a Westminster

level, how difficult is it for you to make your voice heard and more

importantly to be relevant in a parliamentary situation? If you are

one of those people obsessed with playing the Westminster game and

breathing the air in the Westminster bubble, it will be pretty hard. But

I've always taken the view that the most important people in the United

Kingdom are a long way from that world in Westminster. If you spend

your time with them and finding out what they think and fighting on the

ground, you will see we've made significant progress. The only way

you can measure this in any real way, the ballot box. The Liberal

Democrats have gained more votes than any other party and more seats

than in Brecon and Wrexham. It is not rats fer tick progress but it is

progress. What your gut feeling telling you about the performance of

the party? It is 0-0. All the pollsters and journalists who made

predictions about our performance five years ago in the Welsh Assembly

and about the general election full stop last May have loads of egg on

their faces. I'm not going to join that crew. You've got to look to the

future. Wales has an option to choose in a liberal force led by

Wales' most outstanding a leader, Kirsty Williams, that's achieved

tonnes in opposition in five years. The pupil premium, ?200 million for

the poorest people in Wales. Because the Liberal Democrats made it

happen. The free bus pass for young travel ers. The extra

apprenticeships, more nurses the, all because of what the Liberal

Democrats have done in opposition with five members. Give us more and

we could do more. You've done that with your five members. Do you think

you will have five, or will you have more, or fewer? What is your gut

instinct telling So come bloke to Cumbria comes to Cardiff and tell

you how many members we are going to have in no, that's up to the people

of Wales. We have the most effective opposition in Wales in Kirsty

Williams, of whom I'm massively proud and Wales is proud. It is a

largely failed Labour administration. Plaid Cymru have

said we will prop up the administration if you vote for us.

The Tories damaging Westminster from Westminster and the English

nationalists who call themselves Ukip have a Liberal of that's spiky,

independent, stands up for the people of Wales, brilliantly led by

Kirsty. Would wouldn't you vote for #24e78 In 2014, in Wales your share

of the vote was lower than in England and Scotland. People don't

see you as that relevant. If you spend all your time looking behind,

you fall over. Since that election, we've provided the only honest

opposition to the Tories on Westminster on tax credits, the

refugees, on cuts to the green energy. We know the threat to the

tidal lagoon in Swansea Bay by the Tories. Whatever size we are in

Westminster, size we are in Wales, in Cardiff Bay, it is the size of

party you've got and the passion to take on the administration and stand

up for the people of Wales that counts. Looking back, I'm not going

to do that. Looking forward is what I want to do. Looking forward we are

told for the Assembly campaign it will be back to basics. It will be

let's have smaller class size, more nurses, more help for businesses.

What's main priority going to be for the Lib Dems?ty only ask because you

are not expecting to form a majority Government. You are part of a small

group who can effect policy from the Government. What will you be saying

we are definitely not going to row back on that one? Kirsty's

leadership has been centred aroundton services that people in

Wales experience this their daily lives, the quality of education. The

pupil premium, an immense achievement. That didn't happen by

any other reason than Kirsty Williams and the Liberal Democrats

made it happen. Going forward with that is vital. Supporting young

people and accessing is services is across the country, the free bus

pass, and more apprenticeships. What will be... It is making sure protect

the wins. We are keen to make sure that we cap class sizes at 25 per

class. When we say things like that, when we talk about protecting green

energy, the building more football homes, protecting plural communities

and our farmers, reducing class sizes to no more than #25rks when we

that you can trust us. In the last five years in opposition Kirsty has

delivered those already. When Kirsty says she will do things, she will.

If you talk to teachers it has a massive impact on the quality of the

outcome of education. The ability of teachers and teaching assistants to

support gifted pupils, with special educational needs, health problems,

slipping behind, to make sure they don't coast is hugely aided by the

fact you have a class of a manageable size, so there's loads of

evidence in the UK and Europe of class sizes of significant

importance and as making that a priority, the people of Wales know

we mean it and we will deliver it because we said we'd make it a

priority and we delivered at an opposition is that if we say we'll

do it now, we will deliver it. Finally, just after the huge defeat

of last year, how important is it that that has avoided a game in

Wales, and you don't see huge rerun of that in this year 's Assembly

elections? So much is good about Wales and the UK, and it's based