20/04/2013 Welsh Liberal Democrats Conference

be flocking to Cardiff, but the Welsh Liberal Democrats are in the

capital for the spring conference. Welcome to coverage of the Welsh

Liberal Democrats conference in Cardiff. They are meeting down the

road at the Holland House Hotel, and the conference kicked off this

morning and the second half is already under way. They are

discussing the health service at the moment. Let me bring in my main

pundit, Kevin Ratcliffe -- Vaughan Roderick. Let us concentrate on this

conference, we have had to already this season if you like, no main

elections for a couple of years but the European ones next year. What is

the main challenge for the Liberal Democrats going into this? I think

there is a feeling after Easter that the political cycle has picked up

speed a little bit, that we are in the very early days of the campaign

leading up to the next general election. The Liberal Democrats have

a difficult balancing act to do. They want to take credit for a lot

of things they have done as a part of a coalition Government in

Westminster, while at the same time keeping their distance or increasing

the distance between them and the conservative half of the coalition.

Then you have the situation in Cardiff Bay, with the Welsh Liberal

Democrats a lot of issues are dissolved issues -- devolved issues,

and you have the the situation where Kirsty Williams will be wanting to

punch above her weight. We know that Ed Davey, energy Minister Nick Clegg

the Deputy Prime Minister have been this morning. We will be hearing

from them later. When the Lib Dems have their conference they are happy

to attack the Conservatives, forgetting perhaps that the

Conservatives will be watching it. They like to try and reassert their

own identity. I think there is an agreement that is allowed to an

extent, because we see attacks on the Liberal Democrats at

Conservative conferences, so all politicians in the coalition are

grown ups, they know there is an element of playing to the gallery.

The difficulty does come at times where those ministers are bound to

defend things that sometimes they do not like very much. That is a

difficult thing for them to do. Three years after the coalition was

formed, the Liberal Democrats who hated the idea of coalition with the

Conservatives by and large have left. Some of them have been

replaced by new blood coming in, but the people who are really -- were

really annoyed with the coalition are no longer in the party, by and

large. Let us get down to the conference. And our political

editor. Hello.Vaughan has been setting out the main topics for

discussion. You have heard from Nick Clegg, seen the delegates milling

around. Lib Dems love the conference, don't they? They do. I

heard you discussing there, this is their opportunity to reassert what

they are about, an opportunity for Kirsty Williams to remind those of

what might have not happened if they weren't in Government. I keep asking

you to stand firm, but things are not going half as badly as the

papers and media are telling you they are. Look at Eastleigh, look at

things we are picking up. So the message is shifting to we can win.

It is looking ahead to the next part of the political cycle, not

particularly the local election in Anglesey and not particularly the

European election, but looking towards the general election and the

Assembly election. A pretty feisty attack on the Conservatives and

Labour, would suggest that he is looking ahead to around 2015, as

opposed to a year later and the Assembly election. What kind of

response did Nick Clegg get? We hear murmurings every now and again that

he is under pressure as the leader. How did the audience react? A couple

of interesting things, it started slow and just sort of picked up. The

audience were neck and they went with him and they enjoyed his

attacks on the Conservatives. The first round of applause is around,

we are not going to allow this Government to lurch to the right.

Labour have no idea of the way forward, they enjoyed that as well.

We have always known that Nick Clegg likes Kirsty Williams, he likes what

she is doing in Wales. He thinks she is good at leading a distinct party

in Wales, and yet not hitting too hard against the coalition

Government, which isn't always easy. He clearly thinks -- they clearly

think she is going down well in Wales as a leader. So there is quite

a burden on her shoulders, this is Kirsty's party, and so this growing

responsibility on her, you sensed between now and the general and

Assembly elections. She is working with Paddy Ashdown on reform, she is

the vice-chair, which is a fine, I think, that the UK party thinks she

is doing well. -- which is a sign. We might get a taste from her later

on of what she plans to say. I heard Christine Humphreys speaking

earlier, she was being asked about how she expects the party will do in

that 2015 election. She suggested that their priority would be to hold

what they have got. Even that is going to be a challenge, isn't it?

Yes, it is, so when we hear Nick Clegg saying we are winning, the

truth is, as you heard Christine Humphreys saying, that the job is

going to be to fight those headlines when it comes to 2015 and hold onto

what they have got. I think they would regard that as winning, after

where have been over the past few years. Ask them about Anglesey, as

them about European elections, and they are pretty cagey about what

winning means in that sense. Do they feel beleaguered, being Lib Dems?

think there is that sense for every party at every conference, but that

these sorts of conferences, it is the old guard that come, the very

faithful and loyal. I suppose there is that slight sense of huddling

together, so no surprise from Nick Clegg, the message was that that is

not going to be enough, you are going to have to believe , we have

to fight and build up from where we are. Ed Davey has said -- there were

about two dozen people at most who were there to listen to Ed Davey.

They had expected some protesters outside. Until yesterday we

understood Nick Clegg was speaking this afternoon, then there was this

change to his speaking much earlier this morning, and the protesters did

not get that message, so they arrived after he had gone. But

again, not that many, considering the Deputy Prime Minister was here,

considering the strength of feeling, they were feeling, not a lot of

protests outside in the end. We will speak to you later and see how you

sum up the afternoon 's action. In the meantime, let us go over to

the conference hall, where there is a debate on the health service,

question and answer session, Tina Donnelly of the Royal College of

the. They are saying that that nursing

level is unsafe. So they have no sad, sorry about that, we will do

something else, we will do something about it. But in doing something

about it, they have reduced the beds, because they have not got the

finances to actually man or person those birds to do it. And this is

continually happening. I come from Ceredigion and this hospital is

right on my doorstep. There is going to be a further reduction of beds in

my hospital because of that. Another �52 million of savings has to be

made, plus whatever was overspent last year, because they cannot

manage the budget. I am anxious to make sure... I am nearly finished.

That is the whole area, because I think we have a huge area here,

because if it is not addressed we are going to end up a third World

country. One of the comments is that we have called for clear red

transparent statistic, so that the general public and indeed our

politicians can scrutinise the safety of their local health boards

more effectively. It is not just about the numbers of the workforce,

it is also about the number of birds and the number of activity, which is

if the activity goes up, if the acuity of illness goes up, the same

number of nurses are trying to do far more with less time. So that is

an important time you make about analysing this to take sticks for

safety and transparency. That is very much your experience from the

frontline? The majority of my time I spend representing nurses, and they

keep coming to me with their concerns. And yes, it is a constant

concern, because they cannot give the concerned that they want to

give. It takes a little bit of time to just say good morning to people,

to say how are you, or whatever. And that is the time we do not have. I

do not know what the answer is, if you had 1000 more beds I am sure you

could fill 1000 more beds. Not enough attention has been given to

the fact that the population has become older and more ill and more

complex, and we are still working on figures, and it has gone out of my

mind, the funding... But the demographics have changed

completely, and we cannot be working under that system, we need more

money for the people of Wales. They deserve it. I do not disagree with

the point on reform of the Barnett formula. The international evidence

says there is a direct correlation between staffing numbers and patient

outcome. There are a number of countries where there is legislation

with regard to this fact, and it is proven that the better of the ratio

is the better the outcome for the patients. With the help of the RCN I

have a private members Bill which will look to create statutory

nursing levels in Welsh hospitals. But France's report said this should

happen. We ask a question about this to the health minister on Wednesday,

and I was vaguely encouraged. I have a lot of time for him. He did not

rule it out. He made the point about making sure there was the

appropriate skill mix, and that the number of nurses on the boards had

to reflect the needs of the patient on the ward. Our patients are

generally older, with complex needs. We are not going to go Mac -- they

are not just coming in with a chest infection, they are coming in with

underlying diabetes or dementia, so they are very complex patience. But

I believe there is merit in having a statutory underpinning to the number

of people we have on our boards. That is not a cost to the NHS,

because what we have at the moment is spiralling numbers of

remittances. If you cared for people well the first time and got it right

the first time, and sent them home when they were ready to be sent

home, you would not have this constant readmittance. We are in a

desperate attempt to save money in the short-term. Actually we are

creating costs in the systems. What the real tragedy is, is that the

Welsh Government had the resources to do this, seven, eight, nine, ten

years ago when there was more public money in the system. There is going

to be a time when you are going to have to run up to track system where

you move from the traditional way to the new system. They have squandered

that opportunity, and for me that is the real tragedy. It will make it

even harder now to reconfigure services, because of that lack of

resources. You can wreak on reconfigure services if you give

them confidence in the new services. We closed a community hospital in my

constituency this year. It did not appear in the media, because we have

spent time in the community to come up with an alternative system that

works in conjunction with local Government, and with the district

nursing staff to provide care. But if we had had these conversations a

decade ago, there might have been a stronger position now.

Perhaps we will take, here we are. Going to have to fight it out.

was a taste of the Conference, let us go and speak to our reporter

James Williams, he will be with us throughout the afternoon with a

selection of guests. Over to you James.

Thank you Carl. Well, it is the afternoon session of the first day

of the Welsh Liberal Democrat Spring Conference, it started this morning

and we had a speech from the party's leader Nick Clegg, in it he stressed

the importance to Wales of more power for the Welsh Assembly, saying

that devolution was a central tenet of liberalism. You adroo degree with

him? Absolutely, one of the wonderful things about the Liberal

Party, going back 100 years we were the original party of Home Rule.

Moving forward into the future for the National Assembly for Wales eyou

have to understand what powers we need, to be able to shape people's

lives in Wales, the power model we have add the moment, it is creaky,

it is not working very well. That is why we pushed for the Silk

Commission to look at these issues in more detail and look at the

financial issues. Of course he said he, he thinks a fairer society in

Wales would require more powers, but he is part of a UK Government that

the submission to the Silk Commission said there is no need for

radical change, he is saying one thing and the realty is nothing is

going to change. The coalition put forward their view as a partnership,

but as a party, the Liberal Democrats are very much of the view

that devolution Hughes is about fairness, it is about delivering

power, at a local as level as possible, to make sure people are

able to influence and to change thing, and our democracy works in a

really, appropriate way. Before we had devolution, there was a feeling

in Wales that Westminster was divorced from us, we were, you know,

we were a long away way from the heart of power. That feeling is no

longer so strong, there are places where Wales is's powers are too

clipped. We need to make sure that people feel the National Assembly

for Wales can deliver. The theme of the Conference and the Liberal

Democrats nationally is stronger economy, fairer society. Absolutely.

How are the Welsh Liberal Democrats delivering that as a party of

opposition in the Welsh Assembly? One of the first things I would say

is that even in opposition we are able to deliver a pupil premium for

children in schools in Wales, so that those children from poorer

backgrounds, you know, their schools have a little extra funding to help

them, and make sure they don't fall behind, because we know that

children who fall behind in school, if they are behind by the time they

are aged seven, they will never catch up. We know there is a

difference in the attainment levels of children from poorer background

than children from middle class backgrounds. We have to stop that.

If we want our society to be fair, we have to make sure every single

child has an appropriate opportunity to learn, to grow, to develop as a

human being and go out into the world and earn a living and

contribute not only to our economy, but to our society.

Thank you. Now, turn to Peter Black, the assembly member for South Wales

west. Nick Clegg was very, was heaping

praise on Kirstie William's performance, as he tends to do when

he comes down to Welsh Liberal Democrat conference, she is going to

be talking about later how tomorrow afternoon, when she closes

conference easterly where the Liberal Democrats kept hold of power

was a turning point for the party. Do you see it like that? Absolutely,

what we demonstrated to people was we can go into a very important

by-election, and defend the seat, despite the fact that as party, we

are not doing well in the poll, we are under criticism for some of the

things we have to put in place in Government. We held the seat

comfortably, with a outstanding campaign, and I think we have shown

in Wales the resilience of Welsh Liberal Democrats and I hope we will

take forward the lessons of easterly so we will continue to show that

resilience and build on it. mentioned resilience there, is that

the best you can hope for, to maintain your ground, when it comes

to the next election? I don't think so, we have maintained or ground and

shown that resilience, but by the time it comes to the next election I

hope we would see green shoots in the economy, we will have a good

story to tell to people about how we have taken 1.1 million people in

Wales, with have taken tens of thousands of people out of tax in

Wales, we have helped pensioners with better pensions, we have helped

people with childcare and tax credit, measures we have put in

place, showing we can manage the economy but do so in a fair way, if

that gets through, I would expect us to do better at the next general

election. The narrative seems to be don't trust the Labour Party on the

economy, we can be trusted and we can deliver a fair society, with

different from the Conservatives, but, looking at the economy

specifically, which is going to be the main issue at the next general

election, the results speak for themselves, Fitch rating agency just

last night downgrading the UK outlook for the coming year, it

doesn't look good. It already difficult. The economy takes time to

turn round. It is not the sort of thing you can turn round overnight.

A lot of people experts internationally have recognised we

are doing the right thing in, terms of making sure be cut the deficit.

We are having to make difficult decisions is and obviously that is

impacting in terms of the polls and in terms of the results of elections

but I expect in the next couple of years we will start to see the

results and see the economy picking up. I hope by the time it comes to

the next election, people will be able to see that the policies we

have had to follow, because of the situation we inherited, because of

the mess Labour created in the years before we got into power, that

people, that work is starting to bear fruit.

Nick Clegg mentioned in his speech as he did in the party's national

Spring Conference a couple of months ago, that you are the party of

change, you are not the party of protest you once were, but is there

a disconnect between what is party the grass roots is feeling and what

the party leaders and politicians are feeling? No, we are not just the

party of change, we are a party of Government. You talk to the people

who have come here, we have had a good turn out, a lot of people, very

enthusiastic about the party, desperate to get out there on the

doorsteps and sell the message, the grass roots are behind what we are

doing in coalition, because they can see the benefit, they can see people

getting lower tax bill, pensioners getting a better deal, the

improvements put in place in terms of Chile care, they can see the

Liberal Democrats making a difference in Government, even

though we have a small part of that Government, with just over 50 MPs.

I want to ask you a quick question about the new scheme that the Welsh

Government has dropped. That was a key plank of the budget. They have

dropped that now, which is a disappointment, something you wanted

to see introduced, does that mean it will be difficult for you to deal a

budget deal in the future? It is going to give us pause for thought.

It was part of a budget deal, we in good faith ex --s expected them to

deliver on it. Has taken 14 month to get where they are, they drop it for

the launch, questions have to be asked about why it wasn't in place

earlier, why they haven't given it the priority which felt it deserved

and why it was they dropped it, seemingly because they haven't got

partners and builders are saying we are prepared to go ahead with it. I

hope they will rescue something from the Ashes in terms of a new buy

scheme over the next few months but certainly next we sit down with the

Labour Government we will look long and hard and saying you are

promising this now, what guarantees have we got you will deliver, if you

can't deliver we won't do a deal. Thank you. Back to you.

Thank you James. We have heard not least from our two guests there, the

big speech was from the leader of the UK party, the Deputy Prime

Minister Nick Clegg, he was introduced by Christine Humphreys,

the President of the Welsh Liberal Democrats.

It has been a whole year since we last met here. In Cardiff.

And in the meantime, we have received the excellent news that our

leader, Kirsty Williams, has been voted ITV's assembly member of the

year. APPLAUSE

I have to say, that was no surprise to any of us.

All you have to do is watch First Ministers questions. Each week. To

know that we have by far the strongest leader.

Take the Tory leader. Yes, take him, please.

Andrew RT Davis, who seems to think that shouting words, any old words,

is the right approach. Then there is Leanne Wood. The Plaid

Cymru leader, who thinks she's standing up for Wales.

By throwing the First Minister questions, just like Bates. Asking

what he thinks about the UK Government. I have a little message

for Leanne, Leanne, dear, you are the leader of the second largest

opposition party in the assembly. Your job is to hold the First

Minister to account. Not to play the stooge, in some

little double act, designed to lay all of Wales' woes at the foot of

the coalition. And let in Carwyn Jones off the

Hook. That isn't standing up for Wales at all. So let us be honest,

neither the Tory lead or the Plaid leader troubles the First Minister

very much at all. Yet when Kirstie stands up, he knows there is trouble

brewing. Have you seen how all of a sudden he

starts fibbing -- flicking through his binder, looking for answers that

aren't even there. Week in and week out, Kirstie gets the better of the

first minister and think he secretly shows, knows it, she is a fantastic

leader and her award was thoroughly deserved.

APPLAUSE Now, as always, there is a great

programme ahead of us this weekend. We have a number of interesting

debates, spread across the weekend. And remember, conference, this is

important to us, because we are the only major party that has proper,

open debates in our conferences. We are the only party whereverry

member has a stake in what our policy priorities will be.

What Liberal Democrats have achieved in Government hasn't just been

plucked out of thin air. For example, only this month, thanks to

the Liberal Democrats, over one million Welsh workers have seen

their income tax cut once again. While over 100,000 of the lowest

paid workers won't be paying a penny of income tax at all.

All as a result of a motion put forward in a federal party

conference by a Liberal Democrat member, Elizabeth Dukes. Quite an

achievement, I think you will agree. And last year, of course, our own

member led the debate and won on the issue of regional pay. It just goes

to show, that our party members can shape and influence the party's

direction. And now we are in Government, we

don't just influence our party's direction, and policies, we

influence coalition Government direction too.

So this weekend, we are also having a wide range of fringe events, and I

advice you to pop in, and sample those.

And of course, we have lots of training available. I can see many

new faces here today, and a warm welcome to all of you who are

attending the Conference for the first time. I know you will gain

from the training session, but these aren't just for new members. Even

for seasoned campaigners, dare I say the old stagers. There are always

skills we can improve. Innovative ways to win elections.

You could learn skills that you could put into operation in our o

campaign in Anglesey, you wouldn't expect me to miss this opportunity

to mention our elections in Anglesey, Anglesey is the only

County in Wales to have local Government elections this year.

And I know how much your help would be appreciate appreciated by all the

north Wales team there. If you think you could be of help in

any way, please let me know, or Aled, or David, or Damian.

You, every one of you in the hall, although you may be quite a few

miles away from Anglesey, pick up the phone, we are on Connect.

This weekend we will also have the chance to hear from our team in

Westminster. Alongside Nick, we have Danny, Ed and Vince. It is good to

have so many of our ministers here. Neither Labour nor conservative

members get such frequent access to their frontbench teams. Since 2011,

Nick has visited Wales no fewer than 13 times. Compare this to Gordon

Brown, who as prime minister visited Wales on just one location. And even

then, he did not have the courtesy to visit the National Assembly. In

13 years of being in power, never once did a Labour minister from the

Treasury Department come and face questions from the Assembly 's

finance committee. Something that Danny Alexander did a matter of

months after being in Government. So no longer in Wales do we have to put

up with being the forgotten region of the UK. It is always good to hear

what is going on with our team in Westminster, and yes, of course

sometimes we have issues that we want to raise with them. But we are

in coalition, and we realise that we cannot always have our own way. But

do you know what, when you think of it, I think we have achieved huge

amounts in coalition. Raising the tax threshold, creating a fairer

state pension, ending child detention, scrapping ID cards,

progress on equal marriage, the green investment bank, and the list

goes on. And let us not forget every single day we are successfully

fighting to stop the Tory Right Wing from working the coalition 's tale.

The Tory party, that wants to scrap the human rights act, and to

introduce regional pay. Nick and his team have kept the coalition

Government firmly on the centre ground, and that is something we can

all be proud of. Conference, it is now my great honour to introduce to

you and to welcome on your behalf the Deputy Prime Minister, and the

Thank you very much. That's a very warm introduction. Thank you,

everybody. Thank you. Thank you for that very warm introduction. It is

lovely to be here again. Next season there will be two Welsh football

teams in the Premier league, well, three if you can't Gareth bail. So

congratulations to Cardiff city who will join Swansea in the premiership

after decades in the lower divisions. It is proof that we

English can never rest on our laurels. Just when we think we have

got rid of Craig Bellamy, he forces his way back into the limelight a

bit like Lambert opaque! -- lame Margaret Thatcher. I am not here to

talk about her politics or her policies. Many of which had a

devastating effect on communities here in Wales. Indeed they motivated

many of us in this room to get into politics in the first place. But I

will say this. Whatever you think of Margaret Thatcher, no one can deny

that is the first and only female British Prime Minister, she broke

the highest glass ceiling in Britain. She was not the first

strong woman to succeed in British politics, I suspect many of you to

your inspiration from Shirley Williams, I certainly don't. But

Margaret Thatcher was the first to reach the very top. And our party

still has a long way to go. We are working hard to do better across the

party, more female councillors, more film Assembly members, more female

MEPs and MPs. But today I pay special tribute to the Welsh Liberal

Democrats for leading the way. Every time I come here, I heap praise on

Kirsty Williams for her leadership, her determination and her uncanny

knack of getting exactly she wants. But in this week of all weeks, I

want to praise Kirsty for another reason. For being such a fantastic

role model for young women across Wales. I will be girls watching the

television seeing Kirsty running rings around her opponents and

taking Carwyn Jones to task at first Minister's questions, thinking, I

want to be like Kirsty. What she always says is being there, being a

strong leader, shows other women can do the same. When I see Kirsty all

Eluned Roberts or any number of you, I know we have a generation of

inspiration inspirational woman coming through the ranks. This party

is to mail, and that needs to change. We need more Liberal

Democrat role models for black, Asian, disabled, and for young gay

men and women too. Some challenge for you is in every selection

committee that use it on, with every candidate you support and vote you

cast, is to consider how you can help us change our party for the

better. We must be a more diverse party, and we will be a better party

for it. Liberal Democrats believe that everyone should have the same

opportunity to get on in life. That would make society fairer. But to

build a fairer society we need a stronger economy, so we have the

jobs and opportunities you need to get on in life. A stronger economy,

a fairer society, enabling everyone to get on in life. You may have

heard me use those words before. Get used to them, conference. Get used

to saying them, because that is the message I need you to deliver across

the country. Explain it to people every and each day, from now, for

the next two years and beyond. Tell them that only the Liberal Democrats

have the values and ideas to build a better future. That only we can

deliver the stronger economy and fairer society that Wales and all of

Great Britain needs. It is a message that resonates with people because

it is true. Look at what we are doing to build a stronger economy. A

million new jobs in the private sector, a million apprenticeships

started, a deficit cut by a third so far and above all taxes cut for the

vast majority of working people, including more than 1 million Welsh

workers. And look at what we are doing to build a fairer society.

Equal marriage, ending child detention, the pupil premium. I have

always believed that the best way to give children the best chance to

fulfil their potential and get on in life is to stop them falling behind

when they are still young enough for it to make all the difference. That

is what the pupil premium does. It is a policy I first wrote about more

than a decade ago, and one of the things I am most proud to have

delivered in England. It is a sign of Kirsty 's leadership and your

determination that we have been able to deliver a pupil premium for Wales

to. It is hard enough to deliver your policies as a partner in a

coalition Government, so to deliver them in opposition takes a

remarkable degree of talent, conviction and persuasiveness.

Kirsty has shown, and it is what all of you have shown as well. As

Liberal Democrats we know that a fairer society for Wales means more

power for Wales as well. That is why we pushed for the silk commission,

and why we want appropriate debate about how to devolve more power to

Wales. This is something we can only do together, together as nations,

together as governments and together as Liberal Democrats. Devolution has

always been and remains a basic tenet of our party. It is key to the

sort of liberalism that I believe in. We make compromises daily in

Government. But I want you to be sure of one thing, our commitment to

devolution, indeed my commitment to more power to Wales, is as strong as

it ever was. Building a new stronger economy, it is not easy. I do not

pretend it is all sunny uplands from here. Britain 's economic recovery

has proved more challenging than everyone imagined. The crash in

2008, deeper and more profound than we knew. Globally, things are still

precarious. Look at what has happened in Cyprus to see the danger

that looms when markets question the ability of governments to live

within their means. Countries around the world face the same hard truth.

We must all pay the piper in the end. I want to make one thing clear.

We will not flinch on the deficit. But to be unflinching is not to be

unthinking. And the idea that the choice is between a cruel and

unbending plan and unethical plan B is simply not the case. Balancing

the books is a judgement, not a science. Our plan has always allowed

for room for manoeuvre. When economic circumstances around us

deteriorate and UK growth forecasts suffered, voices on the right call

for us to respond by cutting further and faster. But instead we took the

pragmatic choice to extend the deficit and debt reduction

timetable. Far from being rigid and dogmatic, we chose to meet our

deficit and debt targets on a slower timetable. By international

comparison, we are proceeding at a sensible pace. The fiscal

contraction this year and next is less than under President Obama 's

deficit reduction plans, and indeed less than France and Spain's plans

as well. It is simply not true, as our critics on the left pretend,

that we are slashing and burning the state. Did you know that at the end

of this Parliament, public spending will be 43% of GDP grows back that

is higher than at any point between 1995 and when Labour let the banks

crash in 2008. While reducing the deficit is essential, it remains of

course a means to an end. That end is a stronger economy, with

lasting, sustainable growth. Sound public finances are one piece of the

jigsaw, but so are better skills, and more competitive tax regime for

business. All of which we are delivering. In recent weeks and

months many on the Conservative backbenches have called for the

Government to lurch to the right. Whether it is Liam Fox David Davis,

demanding further cuts on Europe or human rights. The direction of the

Conservative party has been the subject of much discussion in the

wake of Margaret Thatcher's death. Let me be absolutely clear, there

will be no lurch to the right by this Government, not while I am at

As Christine pointed out, Conservative backbenchers can huff

and puff as much as they like, but the Liberal Democrats will keep this

coalition Government firmly anchored in the centre ground. The

Conservatives are not the only party in the shadow of former leader. This

week Tony Blair issued a warning to Ed Miliband that the Labour Party is

not behaving as a credible party of Government. Under Edmund Abad and Ed

balls, Labour has retreated into the comfort zone of opposition, with no

apologies and no idea of what to do next. Ed Miliband and Ed balls have

learned nothing. They took our economy to the brink with their

reckless spending, reckless borrowing and reckless debt, and now

they have told us that they would do it all over again. Of course, they

have come up with one new idea, the mansion tax, and that is our idea.

In fact, Ed balls took another idea from us just last week. He did a

call in on LBC radio. When I do it it is called call Clegg. I think his

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 980 seconds

dynamic performance from Nick Clegg. This is not a huge conference, Welsh

Liberal Democrats conferences have never been that big. They have a

core of activists that worked very hard. They do not have the sort of

occasional members that the other parties tend to have who turn up to

see the party leader. That is not the way the body operates. But Nick

Clegg I think, remember he was addressing the party first thing in

the morning, it was a calm and reasoned appeal. We are at the start

of this part of the electoral cycle, the foothills of the

Himalayas of the 2015 election, and he is making sure everyone has their

backpacks on and has their walking shoes on, and starting out on that

campaign. But it is not yet the hammer and tongs to stage. But he

has made clear we want to win, we want due to make sure you can win.

That is a tough sell. He cannot say, let us hold onto as many seats

as we can the Liberal Democrats -- it is fair to say there are two

different election is going on, there are the elections in seats

where they may challenge the Conservatives. If anything they have

helped the Conservatives in power, that might make Conservatives

amenable to voting for them. The real problems are in seats like Nick

Clegg's own seat in Sheffield where labour is the challenge. Those are

the seats they will find it tough to hold. Let us go back to the

conference venue, where James Williams is there.

Thank you. We are here -- we heard the speech that Nick Clegg made, and

here to listen was Mark Williams, MP for Kennedy Gillan. What did you

make of the speech. - Ceredigion. Did you think Nick Clegg has

stabilised the Liberal Democrats? has not only stabilised the Liberal

Democrats, but the messages are really strong and beginning to

resonate with people out there. I point to the Eastleigh by-election,

the local election results. The party always knew it had a big job

to sell the messages of the coalition. That was what Nick

Clegg's speech was all about this morning, and I think we are doing

that increasingly successfully. you think the things that you are

pushing on coalition, of the messages are getting through?

takes a while. Coalition Government is new to the UK, it is not unique

to Wales. I think as the junior partner in a coalition, it does take

time. Taking all those people out of the tax regime, work and pensions,

it takes time to get that message through. There is still work to do,

we are not resting on our laurels. We need to continue pushing those

causes, but it is a challenge. will you be able to distinguish

yourself some Conservatives? Policies such as the ones on tax and

pensions, I have spent my political life fighting the Conservative

party. People must ask themselves, would we have seen those policies

without the Liberal Democrat engagement in Government. Would we

have been talking about regional pay in Wales? That was another

achievement. They are the issues that we well I think increasingly

seek clarity between ourselves and the Tory party. I am not a

conservative, Mr Cameron might say we are all Thatcherites now, but not

many people here today would describe themselves as such. So you

will push the fairness of the coalition, but how will you divorce

yourself from the economic record? The economic record means many, many

more private-sector jobs, and announcements in the budget a couple

of weeks ago to try and boost things there. There are huge difficulties,

but I signed up to the coalition on the basis that we would be reducing

the deficit. It is down by a third, that is significant. By 2015 it will

be reduced that much further. Vince cable has often said if you do not

get progressive -- you do not get aggressive politics on the back of

bankruptcy. You have had to move the goalposts for whatever reason. Will

people by that now? I think you in the media have explained brilliantly

the challenges of Europe, the challenges in the Eurozone, which

have hampered some of our plans. People understand that is well

beyond the control of the UK Government. It has been more

challenging, but progress has been made and I look forward to

continuing progress. That is not to say there are not issues we have

concerns about. I now turn to the lead candidate for the Liberal

Democrats in the European elections next year. Alec, both Nick Clegg and

Kirsty Williams will point out that the Eastleigh was a turning point

for the party. Does it feel that way for you? It does as well -- it does

actually. I think we are in a robust position in Kerry Daykin, and what

happened in Eastleigh strikes accordingly. Where you get a Liberal

Democrat MP NUC how they work is good constituency MPs, they are

quite hard to get rid of, and that is what we are saying. The president

compared some of the members like cockroaches and locusts because you

survive nuclear war! I think there is a serious point there. A lot of

people joined the Liberal Democrats when it was not something that was

going to naturally lead to power. I joined in 1976, and you hear Paddy

Ashdown talking about the time when in his leadership it was barely

measurable. Most activists are committed to what the party stands

for. And are going to go on through thick and thin and be quite hard to

discourage when it comes to it. will that play in the European

elections? Well, one thing is we have a distinctive line on Europe,

and people who have voted for us in European elections in the past are

likely to go on to, because we are saying that countries need to

cooperate on big issues like global warming or climate change. Those

things can only be done internationally. People will support

us for that kind of thing. UKIP are saying it does not work, let us get

out of it, Plaid Cymru are in a way saying the same thing about the

United Kingdom, and we are saying, let us reform this. UKIP and Plaid

Cymru have seats in Wales, you do not. How will you change the?

were within distance last time, a few thousand votes. It is a

proportional election, which is quite interesting. People can vote

for the party they support, and the seats will be divided up

proportionally unfairly on that basis. Some will go up, some don't.

We can speculate on that, we can do is push our case that being engaged

in Europe is important, but it needs reform just as the United Kingdom

needs reform and Wales needs reform. We will make our argument, they will

make bears, and let us see what happens. -- they will make their

arguments. Back to you. As we heard earlier, the parties are

in election mode. The voters of Anglesey go to the polls. A year

behind the rest of Wales. You can tell us why there are elections in

Anglesey this year. They were postponed from last year because of

Government 's problems on the council. What the Government decided

to do was to postpone the elections to redraw the boundaries, and rather

than a proportional election we were hearing about there, but Anglesey is

being given is a large dose of first past the post, big wards, three

members each, and those members were by and large likely be drawn from

political parties, because what happened is that you had a lot of

small single members wards very often represented by independents

who were very often the only candidate standing. The Government

is trying to politicise Anglesey if you like, and the first stage was

postponing the elections, the second stage is holding the elections with

these new wards. All the political parties have piled into Anglesey's

local Government in a way that is incomparable with anything we have

seen in the past. Because they think they can get something out of it?

think partly they think it is their duty to do it, and realistically can

any party win an overall majority? That are just 30 councillors on the

new council. Plaid Cymru think they can. We shall see. But there are a

large number of Conservatives and Labour standing, and a large number

of UKIP standing, so they will be very interesting elections to watch.

We heard from -- we heard from Christine Humphrey earlier.

Let us hear what Labour, the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru have

to say about those elections on Anglesey.

The whole culture of Anglesey has been based on independent

councillors. I think the solution is better party politics instead of

personalities. We have seen Rose between personalities, and not

focusing on what people want. For the first time we will have a

manifesto and a proper programme which includes jobs, education and

issues that are important to the people of Anglesey. Anglesey

politics have always been about the island, there is a strong feeling

the need to get it right this time because the local authority has been

badly performing for such a long period of time, and I think a strong

group of Conservatives candidates will be able to offer the people are

different viewpoint in terms of how they should move forward. We need to

make Anglesey proud again after this long, turbulent difficult period. We

need to have a council that has disciplined, and therefore the

commissioners will feel confident about leaving the island to the

local councillors. More needs to be done in creating jobs and so on and

making sure that the councillors drive forward a programme to make

sure that the services that the people of Anglesey need can be

properly run. Mark Williams had a question and

answer session earlier, and one question was about the Silk

Commission, set up by the UK Government to look at the future of

devolution. A question about the Silk Commission.

Do you see the proposals being implemented in this parliamentary

session? There are two dimensions to the Silk Commission. Part one talks

about the taxation and fiscal arrangements, and part two is about

the powers that we believe should be devolved to the National Assembly in

this great historic progression of powers that we have championed for

many years. The process currently is that they have reported on part one,

the partial capacity to vary income tax, talked about income streams

through devolving some of the smaller taxes, and we await their

government's response to that. Has assured us that we will have a

response to that report in the spring, it might not feel like it,

but summer is fast approaching, spring is fast ending, so we look

forward to the government's response to part one, and Paul silk is

currently taking evidence on part two. This party has achieved a great

deal. We were the party that created silk. We have responded to the

historic challenge and honoured commitments that we made in our

manifesto. We need a Wales Bill in this Parliament, whether it happens

in the Queen's speech in a few weeks time is a bit optimistic, but it

must happen in this Parliament. I want us as a party to be in a

position to go to the general election in 2015, to say that not

only did we make an important platitudes about devolution and

ensuring that our lead and his colleagues that make decisions on

our behalf to do with provision of services and the strategies we have

talked about, have the means of having the debate and the powers of

raising money as well. I want to go to that job elections saying those

We need to see what Paul sold all say or do Part Two. Devolution is

not a day event, but a process. It would be fair to say that this

party and his parliamentarian us, we both talked about this in

Parliament, are impatient and want to see a speedier approach.

This is a programme about the Welsh Liberal Democrats spring conference

so let us see some more of it. Earlier delegates discussed

introducing more public transport concessions for students and young

people. As a Liberal Democrats, conference, as Nick Clegg just

mentioned, we are a party that is committed to ensuring you can get

on in life whatever their social circumstances a background. The

same driving forces behind our motion here today. We are committed

to helping young people whatever they do win difficult economic

times to ensure everyone can get on in life and access further and

higher education and training and employment. I believe we need a

holistic approach to tackling youth unemployment here in Wales. As a

body of young people we are aware of the issues affecting young

people in Wales and we also understand the additional impact

around the geography. Last week I criticised the was government and

its inability to support young people on public transport as I

firmly believe that if we are to tackle youth unemployment we need

to ensure people can access and a four to access the things needed to

get on in life, if that is higher education, further education,

training, apprenticeships or whether it is work opportunities

that are available to young people in Wales. As a party we should be

leading the way in developing a consensus that we need to do more

to support young people in Wales. We cannot limit discussions of

youth unemployment to the number of apprenticeships on offer or the

number of people going on to higher-education. Earlier this week

a Cardiff private bath -- bus company launched a scheme to cut

fares for young people between 16 and 18, a policy similar to what we

are proposing here today. This company is showing that this policy

can be implemented across Wales and I believe that the Welsh government

and local authorities can work with bus companies to support young

people on public transport. Wales needs a public transport system

that connect every dot and every community and allows young people

to get on in life whatever their social circumstances. Conference, I

want a fair deal for young people and I believe this is a way of

tackling youth unemployment in a way to create a stronger economy

and society. Firstly, thank you very much for bringing this motion

today because I think there is a group of people in our society who

have less of a voice than others and that his young people. We need

to make sure that wherever possible you are bringing forward ideas that

we can discuss and take forward to other places. I do welcome the

principle of this motion. A picket is an idea that his very well

thought out and I applaud you for the work that you have done towards

it. It makes me ask myself some questions about what do we do with

public transport and how do we spend the money that we use of

public transport here? One of the things I thought about it is, why

do we find all the persons bus passes? One of the fundamental

reasons we do that is because in the long term it saves us money, in

is that people are kept low bar for longer and it saves social services

money and committee chance for money and so there is, not only a

fairness issue here, and a social issue here, but there is an

economic imperative as well which makes it a wise investment.

Actually doing something for young people has that same potential

because when we look at the problems that led him people --

young people, particularly in rural Wales, experience in travelling to

things like a apprenticeships and work placements and job interviews

and school and higher education, we see the fact that the lack of

access to public transport and the cost of public transport acts as a

real financial barrier and an economic disincentive to go out and

work. That is something that we need to take seriously and consider

when we look at the financing of these kinds of proposals. We did do

some work in my office looking at the facts and figures and

statistics here and it is interesting to look at the older

person's bus pass as a comparison to what it might cost to introduce

something like this. We found that 630,000 people in Wales aged over

60 have a pass and that is only 82.5% of those who are eligible for

a pass. One of the things we want to look at is whether there was a

potential for using the none take up as a funding mechanism. Actually

the funding does take account of the fact that at the moment there

is a lack of take up their for people who are perhaps too frail to

use it or who are still working so we will need to look at other ways

of doing that but it is worth considering. There are around

190,016 to 18-year-old student who would qualify for a pass under the

proposals that you make. Looking at the figures in terms of the

administration costs, not including the transport costs, we would

estimate it would cost �500,000 a year to administer the passes so it

is a substantial amount of money but not an impossible amount of

money so we need to understand how we would go about paying for that.

We need to think about that very carefully. If you want to develop

this policy further I would welcome the opportunity to work with you to

further bring these ideas to fruition and for that reason I

think it is important to note that the motion calls the policy -- for

the policy commission to work is a but look for the answers and to

develop this as a policy and with that in mind I would like to rescue

all too supported wholeheartedly because it is wholehearted -- well-

thought-out. It is not looking for pie-in-the-sky, it is looking for

our support to help make it happen. Thank you very much. There is more

of a flavour of the Conference for you. Let us find that what they are

saying in the coffee room for and the other rooms around the

conference. James's with Lord German. Thank you very much. I am

joined by Lord German, the former leader of the Welsh Liberal

Democrats, of course. You are now a member of the House of Lords, how

is the change of pace from your time in the Assembly, how why

you're enjoying it? It is very enjoyable because you do the same

things as you do in the National Assembly but differently. Of course

the larger number of people means that you look at things in a

different way and sometimes you have to shout louder to get your

voice heard, whereas with only 60 members of the National Assembly

you can always be her. To the difference between the Welsh

Assembly is that you were pushing for more powers there but you are

rare breed of Lords who wants to see the House abolished and that

one will happen in this Parliament. No, my chance to have myself

abolished has a past and I would have voted for it, I would like to

see the House of Lords directly- elected. I think we need to have

that sort of democratic base to read but we are stuck with what we

have got at the moment for the foreseeable for your job. In a way,

do you think it was the best thing for the Liberal Democrats? In the

sense that it falls due to draw the dividing lines between yourselves

and your Coalition partners? certainly wasn't the best thing for

us in the terms of our political stance and standing, what it did do,

I think, was strengthen the resolve of people in the Liberal Democrats

in Parliament to know how to operate within a Coalition, to know

when to say, no, we don't agree with you on that point but we know

that we have to work together to bring clarity to the relationship

between ourselves and the Conservatives. That is certainly a

dividing line between the way that we operated, rather than anything

that means the Coalition would collapse. It will not collapse, it

will continue, but we are being clearer about our position within a.

Are we seeing you separating ourselves already, two years away

from the next general election, starting to separate and showed

clear dividing lines? I don't think so. The experience we have had here

in Wales of Coalition is that you actually intend to complete the job

that you set out to do and you lay out that programme and you follow

it through. At the same time you start to lay out what you would do

in the future, after the next Jemma Lowe election, and you will hear

more for the Liberal Democrats would like to do after the next

general election as these months roll on, in the next two years.

Clarity is needed about where we would go so that we can say, we

have come together in this partnership to do this job and we

will see the job through but where we will go from there on is our

view and then the people of the country can have a vote upon it.

you think the party nationally has got a flavour for Coalition now and,

should there be a situation in the next general election that the

numbers do not add up for one party or another, would you be happy to

go into Coalition with the Labour Party? Is that actually the best

thing for the party? I don't suggest for one minute that we

should choose to might be a Coalition partner in advance, of an

election. It is the people of the country who choose how they want to

see their parliament elected and what the make-up of the tears.

Politicians like us have got to make the best of it. We shouldn't

be frightened of coalitions. We shouldn't be frightened of the fact

that it can't make brave decisions. This Parliament has taken some of

the toughest decisions that this country have thinner many decades

and as a Coalition I think that has been more competent at doing that

than a single party with its individual ideological positions,

arguing underneath the car was. I suspect that if it were to happen

again we know better now how to operate within it and also how to

negotiate the Coalition agreement. It seems from the opinion polls

that it is yourself that have suffered the most from being in a

Coalition compared to the Conservatives. I think we have

turned a corner. I think that was true in the first part of the

Coalition. People do tend to hammer the smaller party in a Coalition

but I suspect, and I think Eastleigh was another put --

turning point for us, we won a by- election in a most difficult of

circumstances and we are winning local government elections...

held the seat. We won it even though we held at. It was buried

difficult and I can't think of aware circumstance. We're winning

local council elections across the country and people are beginning to

recognise that when the crunch comes to it, when the chips are

down, it is the two questions, which party do you think can

deliver a fair and balanced economy and get the jobs back into our

economy, and secondly which one is going to produce a fairer society

to live in? Those are the two issues that we are focusing upon

now where some way down the track we are doing some of the job and we

want to see more of that done and that is what we layout post 2015.

With regard to the issue of fairness, I wanted talk to quickly

about the Welfare Reform Bill. It has detractors say that it is the

death of the welfare state and you have been doing a lot of work

Colleter the House of Lords, how does that message that you're

trying to deliver fairness and yet you are making swingeing cuts to

the welfare state. How does that tally up? For when you look at the

percentage of the cut, it may be huge numbers but it is not huge in

terms of the percentage of the bunch of. If you let think about

the whole budget for the National Assembly of Wales, �15.4 billion a

year, the budget in Wales for welfare, the state budget is a �13

billion a year and the gap is narrowing. Clearly, when you

exclude health and schools from a budget it is bound to take the hit.

If you are trying to put the economy back on track again,

excluding pensioners, in terms of the percentage, the spending Wells

is not as great as people made out. Thank you very much for your time.

Let us pick up on one of the themes are raised by Lord German there. He

had to do the same thing when he was in government with Labour, the

idea of disengagement, the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives

going their own separate ways ahead of an election. When do you think

we will see that? There are some people who think that maybe the

Liberal Democrats will leave the government just before the election

is called and leave a caretaker Conservative government in charge.

I don't see that happening. There are no indications that that is

going to happen. The problem they have got is, simply put, that

wherever you look a, anywhere in the world, normally, more often

than not the junior party in a Coalition does badly in the

following general election. It is because they cannot appeal to the

tactical votes from the people who were excluded from the Coalition.

That is the case around the world so what This fairer economy,

stronger economy, fairer society, how many times have we heard that

quez-mack they are trying to get words associated with their brand,

but it won't be easy. So when the coalition said they

would be together for five years, they will be? I think so, unless

some extreme factor comes in that we cannot foresee. It does not appear

that would be the case. I think one of the problems the Liberal

Democrats will face is this one. Lord German said you cannot make

decisions about coalitions in advance, but I think people will be

asking, well, if we are looking at another hung parliament, do you

believe, as you said last time, but the party with the largest number of

seats has a moral right to lead the Government, or do you take yourself

and abrogate onto yourself the power of kingmakers are Queen makers in

Parliament, that is assuming the Lib Dems hold the balance of power.

can put that to Kirsty Williams shortly. One morning session was

held by Ed Davey, the energy Secretary. This is about my fourth I

think Welsh Liberal Democrat conference I remember going as our

party economic's adviser to Fishguard and talking there, so it

is great to be back here in Cardiff. It is a privilege to beard the

Secretary of State for energy, and a liberal Democrat one, making sure we

are driving forward policies we have campaigned for an developed over

many years. We have some very clear objectives, obviously to keep the

lights on, to keep bills affordable, but obviously also to

make sure we can meet our climate change objectives. Said like that it

seems very simple. But it is a huge, huge challenge. We have to attract

this decade alone �110 billion of investment. It is the largest

infrastructure investment in the whole of the UK, it is nearly 50% of

the UK's infrastructure needs in the next decade. That is partly because

20% of our power is going off-line, but also because we are preparing

for the low carbon energy that we need. It is a huge challenge for

every part of the United Kingdom, and we need Wales to play a big role

in that. When you look forward beyond 20 ten to 2050, the demand

for electricity is going to be huge. Because it is not just in

decarbonising the power generation that we have now, taking out coal

and so on, it is also about electrifying transport, whether it

is the railways, to south Wales, or elsewhere in the UK. Whether it is

caused becoming electric cars. Whether it is moving away from gas

heating to electric heating. The demand for electricity is going to

grow and grow and we meet to make sure that is clean electricity. --

we need to make sure. It is such a huge and pressing need, we cannot

delay these decisions. They have been delayed for far too long. But

it is a huge opportunity, and the debate around this area sometimes

has been hijacked by those climate change deniers and those who are

saying this is all too expensive. We have to make the argument for green

growth. There are hundreds of thousands of green jobs that can be

created if we get this right. I think that makes it one of the most

exciting economic opportunities as well as an environmental imperative.

But we have to put it in a human context and talk about the issues

people are facing, so we have to talk about bills, and helping people

in fuel poverty who are struggling with the cost of living. What are we

going to do to make sure that energy retail markets are as competitive as

possible? I am keen to make sure that we are leading the debate. I am

also keen that we move from just talking about paying for energy to

how we save energy. We have to help people in all elements of that. When

you move to the saving bit, the energy company obligations, the

support for energy in business is critical to our message and I am

keen to hear Heather Green Deal is going anywhere else. I in Scotland

last week, some good things, some not so promising things. I want to

see what the situation here is like. There are an awful lot of people

focusing on the generating side, whether it is onshore wind, offshore

wind, whether it is tidal opportunities, biomass, all the

different multiple types of green clean energy we can have. I am a

complete enthusiast for renewable energy. We should make no apologies

for that. But I don't think it is renewable energy at any price, we

have to make sure it is cost competitive, and I believe it can

and will be. A lot of our policies are designed to make sure we do have

cost competitive clean, green energy. We also have to make sure

that we take people with us, and I know in Wales and other parts of the

country there is a backlash against certain forms of renewable energy,

and the grid networks that are required for it and other energy

sources. So we need to reach out, we should not be imposing things on

people without proper debate and in particular trying to make sure that

our policies ensure that communities can benefit from these developments

as well both in terms of the direct element but also from the supply

chain and the jobs that can come from this green revolution. There

are, particularly on nuclear. I like to think the way we are going about

it is changing the debate, because I am focusing on the cost, to make

sure that nuclear is not as expensive as it was in the past. It

is shocking, this year 69% of my department's budget, about �3

billion, is being spent on decommissioning costs for nuclear

electricity generated in the past. We cannot allow that ever to happen

again. I am being absolutely robust in taking forward the coalition

agreement that there will be no public subsidy, nuclear will have to

be cost competitive in this generation. But I would urge people

not to completely reject nuclear, because the scale of the challenge

we have is massive. And climate change is pressing and extremely

alarming, so having different low carbon options on the table is

something that I think we have to contemplate. One of my final points

on generating is the exciting prospect for community energy. We

will be publishing a strategy in the autumn. I think the Liberal

Democrats should be in the forefront of arguing for community energy, not

just to change the dialogue that people have with energy supply, not

just to be part of the green energy debate, but I think it can be a

great win for all sorts of aspects of local communities, whether

economic development, social capital or whether it is helping people with

their bills. So community energy is something we should be talking a lot

about. I am really excited to be here in Wales to look at all your

fantastic opportunities, whether it is the tidal lagoon, the economic

benefits that Liberal Democrats want, and other parties have been

too slow on. So I know that you will see this opportunity as a way we can

build a stronger economy and a fairer society here in Wales. Thank

you very much. That was Ed Davey. Time to speak to

Kirsty Williams, the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. Good

afternoon, Kirsty Williams. Hello there. These occasions, your party

love a conference, what sort of mood are you finding delegates in? It has

been a pretty tough time for your party. As I am sure you can hear, it

is very lively down here at the conference, we have had some

excellent debates. This is still a party which lets its members to

contribute to debates and to policy-making is, so everybody is in

a very good move. We are buoyed up by the easterly wind, -- easterly

wind. It it is a bit of a red herring, that when in Eastleigh.

Don't you think you are putting too much store on that by-election win?

It is the first time a party in Government have been able to hold a

seat in a by-election for over 20 years, and I am sure you would be

the first to have had something to say if we did not hold on. The party

is in fine fettle, it has been a difficult couple of years for the

party, but that easterly wind demonstrates that when people hear a

message about a stronger economy and tackling the budget deficit and the

economic mess left us by the previous Government, we are doing

that in a way that is fair. 1 million taxpayers are getting a tax

cut here in Wales, 130,000 taken out of paying tax altogether. When

people hear that message, they respond positively to it. So that is

the message you will be going into the next election on. You are the

vice-chair of the general election campaign. A reporter was asking your

predecessor whether he would favour a coalition with Labour next time.

Are those the sorts of discussions you are having in that group with

Paddy Ashdown? No, they are not. What we are discussing in those

meetings with Paddy is putting forward a strong message from the

Liberal Democrats in that election, but if the public wants a strong

economy, we know that Labour governments have repeatedly left

this country bankrupt. The Liberal Democrats are prepared to make those

tough and difficult choices. But if you want a fair society it cannot be

left to the Tories. They only look after their own. If you want a

strong economy and a fairer society so that everyone in life can get on,

only the Liberal Democrats can do that and it will be a vote for the

Liberal Democrats that will deliver it. As to what happens after that

election, it is quite clear we will not put narrow party political

interest before the wider needs of the country. On that point, if you

are faced with a situation as you were last time of the Conservatives

on labour, and you hold the balance of power, do you think that you are

duty bound to let the party with the most seats have a crack at governing

and support them, or would you rather do what you think is best for

your party in the country? We will do what we did at the last election,

where we will not put narrow party political interest to the

forefront. We warn act in the nation's best interests. -- we will

act. You are no fan of the coalition, are you? The reality is,

no overall party won the election, the party leader had said quite

clearly before the election he would seek first to work with the party

with the bigger number of seats, and we are using our influence within

that coalition Government to implement Liberal Democrat policies.

Two ways, the personal tax threshold to �10,000, that means 130,000

people in Wales not paying income tax at all and a further million

Welsh people not... We have heard that message from you. We will have

a manifesto and we will seek to use whatever influence the British

public gives this party to implement those ideas. That is what we have

done in Westminster, and it is what I do in the Welsh Assembly to try

and influence the Welsh Labour Government. For instance,

introducing people premium soul are very people get a start in their

education. We use the influence we have to deliver on Liberal Democrat

policies. 1-macro that is one success you have claimed, the people

premium. We heard Peter Black talking about the new scheme which

the Welsh Government have scrapped. It was part of the scheme that

bought your support for the budget. He was suggesting that trust has

been eroded, and next time you sit down with Carwyn Jones you might not

trust that he will deliver on what he says he will do.

I am not disappointed for the Liberal Democrats, who I am

disappointed for other thousands of first-time buyers that believe that

scheme would help them owned their first home. They have been let down

by a Welsh Government that has dithered and not find a way of

delivering bad idea. It is clear to me that the Welsh Labour Party do

not have a great many ideas. When they take on our ideas, they have

demonstrated they are not very good at implementing them. That is a real

shame for the Welsh people. We could have had a scheme up and running

that could have helped those people buy their first homes. Because of

the inability of the Labour Government to get these things

organised, those chances have now been taken away, and it is a real

disappointment. But an even bigger disappointment to those people who