Episode 1 General Assembly

Hello, it is May, we are on the Mound in Edinburgh.

It must be the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland.

It is an historic Assembly this year and it all kicked off yesterday.

For the first time ever, the Archbishop of Canterbury

We have welcomed an archbishop before as a guest speaker.

Now with the new agreement in place between the Church of Scotland

and Church of England, they are working

The retiring Moderator took part in Lambeth

A report on what Justin Welby says next Sunday.

Tonight, we will be reporting on yesterday's debates

and previewing what is coming up this week.

A new report on the people who are no longer in church

People spoke about having questions they needed to ask,

doubts they needed to explore, but not finding an environment

in the congregation where they could really do that.

And a look at the work of one small part of Cross-reach, the Church's

social welfare department, which is one of the biggest

providers of social care in Scotland.

It has grown tenfold and has been tremendous.

We have seen huge differences in people.

From the outset of formal business, contemporary issues loomed large,

none more so than the refugee crisis, to which according

to the Council of Assembly report, the response from individuals and

Others have set out on journeys across Europe fuelled by despair.

They have been driven from their homes.

Sometimes even well-planned budgets take second place to human need.

Aware of the plight of millions, the Council established a refugee

project and through generous partnering by some councils has

sought to enable the Church to take a leading role amongst faith groups

in Scotland as our nation responds to this continent-wide challenge.

We were given exclusive access to an English-language class

for Syrian new Scots families who arrived just

It's organised by the Aberdeenshire Partner Refugee Group,

of which Aberdeen Mosque and a couple of Church of Scotland

Today we have a film crew here, so we will say welcome.

As a Christian, I have been very aware of the plight

I took the opportunity to get involved through the Aberdeenshire

Refugee Partner Group to represent the Presbytery of Gordon.

I cannot describe in words how delighted I was from people who came

My congregation have since been involved in working to welcome

Everything from preparing welcome packs and welcome cards

by our families, so that every family coming into their home felt

I like living in Scotland, but, I don't like the weather.

As they were arriving early in the year and the temperatures

were perhaps not what they were used to.

It is a transition through language but also through culture.

A very different experience from many of our other new Scots

new Scots in the country, who have come from Eastern

where they have had a connection with a northern European culture.

But the difference of coming from an Arabic speaking culture

to the north-east of Scotland is really quite dramatic.

We've also been raising funds to enable them as a group

to be able to go and see other parts of Scotland.

Yes, of course I do miss home so much.

I do miss my house, my street where I have grown up.

I miss everything there, even though I feel now this country

The families that have come to Aberdeenshire have come

from settlements bordering around Syria.

They have been resettled through the Syrian VPR process

because they have a particular vulnerability.

Families have been split up, with some of them

We do have from our immediate family three sons living in Lebanon,

one daughter is still in Aleppo, and another daughter in Turkey.

And we came here with only one child.

Because of the situation in Syria, plus I do have special needs son,

In Lebanon there was no care for him but on the other hand,

in Scotland, he is getting lots of care and attention.

That vulnerability can include a number of things from medical

Some of our families we have fought with terminal illnesses and others

have been victims of violence or even torture in some cases.

In the past, we were scared when we were in Syria.

During the war we were afraid of getting killed, bombed,

They are having a child, a son living in the United Arab

Emirates and he is ill with a disease, haemophilia,

and they feel like the regulation here does not allow them

Even for myself, I am not allowed to go to the United Arab Emirates

to see him or to Lebanon to meet him there.

Her daughter's son is ill, they miss each other so much

so she wonders if there is any way she can bring her daughter here.

The need for family is more acute when facing serious illness.

My ultimate hope, one of them at least, is to come

here because of my critical medical situation, because being elderly

here, I would like them all to be here, or if not all,

at least one of my sons to be here to help me.

How do they access our health systems, if somebody is ill at home

at two o'clock in the morning, how can they phone NHS 24

Some of the basic things we take for granted are incredibly difficult

They are very capable people, resilient people, but they just

need our support to overcome the barriers associated

Indeed, we did miss our beloved country and the soil of our country

is so precious, so we miss it so much.

It is a full house at the General Assembly and it

certainly does not seem like a church in decline,

yet we continuously read press reports of falling

So what happens to people who no longer go to church?

Tomorrow sees the launch of this book, the Invisible Church,

the relaunch actually - the first edition sold out.

It is the result of four years' work by Steve Aisthorpe.

After spending years abroad in mission he came home and noticed

that a lot of his friends were no longer in church,

despite the fact that they lived locally.

So he set about some serious research asking - why?

So yes, it was here, Easter 2007, our congregation gathered together

for Easter Sunday morning as they had done for

What happened on a Sunday morning did not seem to be inspiring

and equipping them for living as Christians in the rest

of the week, so one person spoke about how they were prayed

for annually in their congregation, because they were involved

But how they actually spent most of their week teaching children,

not children of church families, just all of the children

from the community, and yet the church had never,

had never really got behind them in that.

What we now know through the research we've been

doing is many of those people, about two thirds,

would say their faith is still really important to them.

So yes they've drifted away from the congregation.

They've not drifted away from the Christian faith.

Dave Foster was an elder and regular Sunday attender,

but working abroad in oil and gas showed him there were other ways

I think today the Church seems to have largely settled down

and a lot of the activities, although they are very good,

focus inward on running quite a refined operation.

Whereas in the Bible, there was a big outward thrust.

People read the Bible and look at the churches and say, these

I see in the Bible a revolutionary people who took the message

and truth about Jesus and his life right across the Roman Empire

within decades, and they were just ordinary people that largely met

in homes, breaking bread together, praying together.

Colin Wilson runs a website, Christians Together,

and is a founder member of a coffee shop that is a point of contact

Colin has noticed what Steve says in his book -

people who don't fit in as conventional couples can

We have hosted what we call house groups, house churches.

In fact, for several of these, the group members comprised mainly

of women who either had no husband or had spouses

If you can imagine you are a believing wife

with an unbelieving husband, they may not want to leave

They may want to stay at home at the weekend but then maybe meet

I sense the house group thing, it helped me to realise Christian

faith is seven days a week, and not just Sunday morning

Steve's report also tackles the feelings

What often starts that journey is to do with doubts and questions.

We all have doubts and questions at different times.

People spoke about having questions they needed to ask,

doubts they needed to explore, but not finding an environment

in the congregation where they really could do that.

About 90% of people, just over 90%, said nobody had followed them up

from the church, so after they finally disengaged,

stopped attending the local congregation, nobody had

I think that was a cause of disappointment for some people.

The church likes to do things by consensus,

so it can take time, sometimes years,

For instance, it seems to have been talking about same-sex

It is seven years since the question of ministers in same-sex

Last year the Kirk agreed to allow congregations to call ministers

The Scottish Government last year introduced same-sex marriage.

So the Church has happened to consider the question

This has been discussed by presbyteries across the country.

And their decision in favour, by a narrow majority,

was brought to Assembly for final ratification.

There is not a single positive reference to homosexual acts

in the entire Bible and the teaching is clear that human sexual

relationships are to be between one man and one woman in marriage.

There are literally thousands of members and adherents who have

left the Church of Scotland over this matter.

Sometimes the members and adherents are virtually

And it has been particularly damaging in the Highlands

and Islands where I serve as a minister.

And not just those congregations which have divided or whatever,

even in my own congregation, about 40 people have left to join

the Free Church because they cannot understand why the General Assembly

of the Church of Scotland would act contrary to

It has damaged our ecumenical relationships.

It is a matter of great sadness to me that for the first time,

the Moderator of the Presbyterians church in Ireland is not at this

Assembly, because his Assembly decided that that was the only

action to take in response to the decision of last year.

We are not changing the position of the church on who may be married

It seems to be the case that our position is we do not

recognise same-sex marriage, unless you happen to be a minister.

This has been a slippery slope in the church from 2009,

when it was the situation of one minister.

And then it was those in civil partnerships.

And we have already had indication that the theological forum may bring

something next year to take the matter further.

I would urge the Assembly to stop the matter here, before we travel

The General Assembly the church has debated not just this matter, but

this over Chur many times. Professor McGowan has helpfully given us an

overview of those arguments this morning, but presbyteries have also

spoken and given their views, and members have had chance to debate

this on many occasions. I would hope therefore, Moderator, that the

assembly might this morning move to a vote quickly without rehearsing

the same old arguments again. The Christian faith is based on Jesus

Christ. Jesus Christ, the incarnate son of God. Jesus Christ endorsed

the old Testament teachings, including clear statements about

homosexuality. I'm sure those have all been debated before so I don't

propose to take the assembly's time repeating them. What I do want to

say is this. Anyone who votes in favour of homosexuality is, in

effect, voting against Jesus Christ. A vote against Jesus Christ is

incompatible with the Christian faith. I believe a number of people

were mistaken in the way they voted at the previous assembly. Saint

Peter denied Jesus Christ. He was forgiven, because he recognised his

error. We have time to do the same. I believe that anyone who has

previously voted in favour of this should reconsider. There's an

opportunity today to at least make a statement in favour of the Bible's

teaching. My message to this assembly this morning is to vote for

Jesus Christ, and vote against this resolution. Thank you. May I remind

the assembly that this over Chur is yet a further step in that agreement

to disagree. It does not, at this point calling question our

understanding of Christian marriage. It allows us to allow congregations

where they are clearly minded to take a decision that they feel is

right. We allow people to descend from what is still the view of the

church. What we have been discussing, as a church, is whether

it is possible for us, even in some small degree, to expand our

understanding of who and under what circumstances we might ordain to the

Ministry of sacrament. We have come to a conclusion after long and hard

discussions that we disagree and agree to disagree and make room for

liberty of opinion to congregations that all of us do not accept. I

would hope that we would put an end to this stage of the debate. And I

hope we would tidy up what we fail to tidy up last year and pass this

over Chur which has been approved by a majority of presbyteries. I hope

we can move on to other subjects. People will walk out of their doors

and will be jumping with joy and others will be angry and frustrated.

I just ask that when we walk out of those doors, we work together. We

have to work together as a body in Christ and we have to get on. When

we come to the boat, before we actually vote, I would ask the

committee to dismiss from your mind what seems to be some serious

emotional arguments that are being employed. Emotional guns are being

held to the head in this vote. Reference has been made to members

and ministers and congregations that have left the church over this. Then

it has been mentioned after that we will lose more again if we go down a

certain route with regard to this boat. We have been spoken of as

possibly voting against Christ if we vote in favour of this motion. That

is no help to anybody. And it does no good in the eyes of the church to

the others around the world. It does no help to the men, sisters, women

and brothers who wrestle with issues regard to their sexuality. There is

no grace in that whatsoever and this is the first time I have ever spoken

at an assembly and I am profoundly disturbed that some of the language

that has been used and I would ask you to dismiss that and reflectively

exercise your vote when it comes to it. Number 143999. Number two

against. 215. The over Chur is carried. -- the over Chur. That

debate was not about people marrying the same sex, it was about

appointing ministers who have had a civil marriage according to the law

of the land. What the Church believes about marriage we will hear

a the assembly next year. Here is a taste of what is to come. What the

theological fora might do in the report it brings next year he show

the range of current discussions and analogies and the ways in which

marriage itself is being absorbed. I will give you an example. The

marriage between a person who has a living spouse and the marriage of a

person who has a living spouse to someone else is not actually

considered a marriage in the Roman Catholic Church. With us, it is.

Because we accept that there may be a valid marriage between two people

where one of them, or both, have spouses who are still alive. But

that simple illustration shows you that already in the Christian

communities there are different definitions of marriage. And in the

report which we will bring next year, we will explore some of these.

Tomorrow the social care Council reports. It employs over 1000

members of staff and is one of the largest providers of social care in

Scotland and faces a broad section of needs via Cross reach. This is

threshold in Glasgow which is a base day centre for caring for people

with learning difficulties. A few decades ago people with learning

disabilities would have been confined to an institution, but

since the last half of the 20th century, the policy has changed and

care is now in the community. Susan McGregor manages the care provided.

I always felt that I had a heart for some thing I wanted to do and I

wanted to do something for the church and I did not just want to be

a minister or anything like that, and I felt I was drawn to this type

of work. How are you? All right? I had never worked with people with

learning disabilities before, so my biggest fear was what if they don't

like me, maybe everything hinges on that I have to do things right for

them because it is their life and I just felt when I came into this kind

of work that it was the right thing to do. There are times when it's

really difficult. There are times when you face really difficult, hard

times with people. You lose people that you become attached to. And you

couldn't do this if it wasn't a vocation. It has to be a vocation.

The care provided here is entirely focused on giving service users

independence and choice. Rather than what happened in the past when the

service providers would have decided what was on offer. And it works.

Giving people choice gives them confidence to be more independent.

This service changes everyday. It started that we had a very small

service but since the introduction of the support, the groups and

community groups in the day service has grown tenfold. And it has been

tremendous because we see huge differences in people. People are

much more confident at using public services and more confident in who

they are as people that they have a in society. Which is really

important, because before they would have been in the background, but now

they have a voice and that has been one of the biggest changes is that

people have a voice and they feel they have a right to be here and

have something to say. Part of going out into the community and going

into the group is that there are people who lose their us passes and

then they go to football and different places, and that has been

really great, because for people who never used a bus pass, they have

gone home and showing people that they can do it, which is tremendous.

The care provided here is entirely focused on giving service users

independence and choice. Rather than what happened in the past when the

service providers would have decided what was on offer. And it works.

Giving people choice gives them confidence to be more independent.

We had to think about how we might support people with a smaller

budget, so we looked at being able to give people the basic needs and

social needs, and how we might do that so the social groups, the bus

trips and variety of ways of giving that. Although the hours were less

on the budget was less, the focus was more on what we provided to

people and the outcomes could achieve through the use of those

hours. The service users seem happy with the changes. I enjoy coming

here. You meet a lot of new faces. All the staff are brilliant. I have

done a lot of charity work and volunteering. I do the healthy

eating group. I am more independent now and I'm doing a lot more things

for myself now. But of course, the cuts have meant less money to pay

staff salaries. How has the team reacted? Because we are part of a

Christian group, it is fantastic and everybody apart from one or two

people losing their jobs, everybody dropped their hours pro rata so

nobody had to make the choice and it was such a humbling experience and

the tremendous team and I'm very fortunate to work with such a great

team. I'm extremely proud of the start but there are the limits to

how they can make sacrifices and what we want to do is work

cooperatively and flexibly with local authorities to see if we can

find joint solutions to the funding crisis. We are aware that local

authorities face funding issues and we believe as a voluntary

organisation we have the flexibility and creativity and imagination to

come up with solutions that will serve the people of Scotland who

need our services. Nothing is easy. So, we'll harmony if not unity

maintain over the weekend? Join us next week and find out -- we'll

harmony. The animals are in

for the long haul, as the Highlands are on

the cusp of winter. for a live debate tackling the

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EU Referendum issues that will have the biggest effect

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