Episode 20 Sunday Morning Live


Episode 20

Is there a 'witch hunt' over harassment? Sean Fletcher and Emma Barnett discuss. Plus Naomie Harris talks about a new scheme for the homeless and Benjamin Zephaniah on Tai Chi.


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Transcript


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Welcome to Sunday Morning Live.

I'm Sean Fletcher.

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On today's programme, a senior

cabinet minister resigns and other

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MPs are under investigation.

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But are we taking sexual

harassment seriously enough?

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Celebrities gather to launch

a new scheme to provide

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meals for the homeless -

James Bond movie star Naomie Harris

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tells us why it's needed.

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The idea of not having a roof over

your head, not having a warm meal in

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your stomach, I just think in a

country as advanced as Britain

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nobody should have two suffer that.

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And poet Benjamin Zephaniah

reveals why he's been

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studying Tai Chi in China.

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You are not a body that has a spirit

or a soul. You are a soul that has a

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body.

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All that coming up.

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And Emma Barnett is here ready

to sample your views.

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Morning, Emma.

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Morning, Sean.

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We want you to be

part of our debates.

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You can contact us by

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don't forget to use

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Or email us at

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However you choose to get in touch,

please don't forget

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to include your name so I can get

hear your views on the items

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in the programme.

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Martin Luther rocked the church

establishment 500 years ago -

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and we'll be discussing

whether there needs

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to be a new Reformation.

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And we meet a young painter,

paralysed from the neck

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down after an accident,

who has become an

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inspiration to others.

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Now any opportunity that comes to

me, I just say yes.

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At least I can say I tried it.

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First, it started in Hollywood,

but now the sexual harassment focus

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has shifted to the House of Commons.

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Defence Secretary Sir

Michael Fallon, one

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of the most senor members

of the Government, has resigned.

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And MPs from both Labour

and the Conservative parties

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are under investigation over alleged

inappropriate behavior,

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which they deny.

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Tomorrow, the Prime Minister meets

opposition leaders to discuss

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the introduction of a new grievance

procedure for Parliamentary

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staff and MPs.

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One backbencher said the scandal

was turning into a witch hunt.

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But Labour MP Harriet Harman

responded that "it

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isn't a witch hunt,

it's long overdue".

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A short time ago on the Andrew Marr

show, Home Secretary Amber Rudd was

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adamant they needed to be radical

changes in the way harassment is

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dealt with.

What we have seen is the

abuse of power, in particular, and

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the widespread cultural change that

needs to take place as we recognise

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that. We will be recognising that.

We are going to be making changes

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and it has to be -- it has to stop.

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Joining us now to

give their views are

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Sophie Walker, the leader

of the Women's Equality Party.

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India Willoughby is a TV presenter.

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Naomi Firsht is a journalist.

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And Musa Okwonga

is a poet and writer.

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Sophie, are you surprised by the

amount of revelations we have had?

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No, not at all. This country voted

last year to take back control.

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Women are taking back control now of

their bodies. They are refusing the

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idea that this was ever acceptable.

It wasn't acceptable 15 years ago,

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it is not acceptable now. And this

classic diversion into a discussion

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about witch witch-hunt and hysteria

is just that. It is a diversion from

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the fact that men know where to draw

the line. And they are not harassing

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anybody who can fire them. They are

not harassing anybody in positions

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of authority. That also reveals that

what this is about is a major

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imbalance of power between men and

women.

People say it is a witchhunt

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because it is trial by Twitter,

trial by the Internet, before people

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can give their side of the story?

No, what is happening is we are

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using words we have had for

centuries whenever women challenge

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the idea that popular powerful or

even ordinary men could also be

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harassers and sexual abusers. They

say they are mad, they are liars,

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this Be happening. When you look at

the specifics of these cases, these

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are people who have reported, and in

most cases been told it is dealt

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with, it has been dismissed, be

careful about your careers or be

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careful what will happen to you

next... We have seen these women

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being taken apart in the media. The

idea that these are women who are

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looking for attention or somehow

victimising themselves given the way

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that they are greeted is folly.

Naomi, Harriet Harman says it is

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long overdue. Men will clean up

their act, they will sort themselves

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out and this sort of behaviour won't

happen?

There is a bit of a trial by

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Twitter going on. That is quite apt.

This is becoming a bit hysterical.

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We are seeing more panic. What

worries me is that we are seeing

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this conflation of very serious

allegations. These need to be dealt

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with very seriously. We are also

seeing allegations of someone

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touching someone's knee. Somebody

sending a text message that is at

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worst sexually flirtatious. That is

not sexual harassment. We should not

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be lumping these things together.

That denigrate serious crime like

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rate. -- rape. It criminalises

innocent behaviour. Like flirty text

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messages, which is not sexual

harassment. We need to draw the

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line.

Criminalising normal

behaviour?

This isn't so much as a

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witchhunt than the tip of an

iceberg. It is a great opportunity

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to have this conversation not just

in Hollywood in Westminster but in

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relation to our own industry, spoken

word.

As a man do you fear you are

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being lumped in with this?

No, I

don't feel that. Unsolicited

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advances, sexual harassment are all

branches of the century. They exist

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on a continuum. Word-macro happens

when power is wielded a woman to the

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nth degree. -- rape.

I don't think

you can say a 30 text messages on

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the same level as a rape allegation.

You might get a flirty text message,

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somebody groping you on the tube,

summary asking you out to dinner to

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discuss a promotion. More than

likely you will get all of those,

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this is about the two minute of the

fact. When we say that this is OK,

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we also say that the stuff at the

other end is OK. And frankly, we are

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living in a country where 11 rapes

are reported an hour, one in four

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women have experience of domestic

abuse. 50% or more of women have

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experienced sexual harassment at

work. We have to call this what it

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is. Violence against women and girls

and it happens every layer of our

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society.

India, Ruth Davidson said

it is time to clear out the stables

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with some pretty big shovels.

It is

the same problem. If you get men and

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women in close proximity, there will

always be flirting, affairs and

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confusion over what signals are

given. Who would be a man at the

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moment? Certainly not me. There is

an arrogance of biology at play

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here. At the end of the day men are,

or male species throughout biology,

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are the predators, women are seen

often as the more submissive side.

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That is putting people in a box,

isn't it?

I think it is true.

I'm

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not a predator.

Maybe not a predator

but the dominant species. I think it

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is blown out of context. Nobody in

this panel will approve the likes of

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Harvey Weinstein what he has been up

two. But when we are talking about

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somebody touching somebody's need

ten years ago and they lose their

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job, what are we going to do? Are we

going to prosecute people for

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bear-baiting?

He was forcing himself

on people. He wasn't touching

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people's needs. -- knees. It was a

deeply cynical move.

We're not going

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into that.

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I'm joined now by the former

Tory MP Edwina Currie.

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Good morning.

Hello, Emma.

There has

been a picture painted throughout

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the week of Westminster, people in

late-night bar is hanging out, far

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from home. Why does there seem to be

so much six and flirting in the

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Palace of Westminster?

That was

probably a more accurate picture 40

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years ago, or 30 years ago when I

first went in there as a young

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member of Parliament. Not least

because in those days there were

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only 23 women members of Parliament.

I don't recognise that picture now.

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I have to say there is a script

flying around, and we have heard a

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bit of it already, but says there

are two species of humanity. One is

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men, one is women, and the men are

automatically predators and the

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women are automatically victims. I

don't buy into that. It is not a

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version of the House of Commons I

recognise and it is not a

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description of the House of Commons

to date. Most of the people in there

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are young. Most of the people in

there, most of the MPs, have come in

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since 2010. There are very few older

and experienced MPs. And I really

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felt for the Cabinet Minister,

Michael Fallon, who resigned this

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week on the basis of a complete

scrap of rumour. It was absolute

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nonsense. It was supposed to have

taken place in 2002. There was

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another bid in the paper today, took

place in 2003. The journalist

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concerned said he attempted to kiss

her at the end of a lunch. Was this

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in public? The moment you start to

examine some of the allegations that

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have resulted in good men resigning,

being put under pressure to resign,

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they vanish into the air. It is not

all sunshine. There isn't an

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iceberg.

Not all of them do. You are

not a current MP. It has been said

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by political correspondents that

there is a generational divide,

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actually, with some of the older

members of parliament being the ones

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coming on this sort of scrutiny. You

cannot sit there and deny that all

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of the allegations coming from

researchers who have at the moment

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no system in place, the Prime

Minister has said this, to report

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their MPs, you cannot deny all of

their experiences?

With due respect,

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I can give -- do also to things if

you give me a moment. The list that

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came out this week, more than 40

members of Parliament, many of those

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allegations are ancient, going back

not ten years but 15 years or more.

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Some of those are consensual.

Consent comes into a lot of this.

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Some of these are not MPs at all.

The rape allegation, which is

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serious, was about somebody who is

not an MP but is a party activist in

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the Labour Party. You have to treat

the serious allegations seriously.

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As the Prime Minister has set

herself, go to the police. You don't

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go to the press. If it is serious,

go to the police. Journalists can

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publish any rumour about anybody as

long as they don't name them. That

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is what has been going on.

That is

your take on it.

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Thank you. Edwina says there is no

iceberg. Good men shouldn't be

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losing their jobs based on rumours?

The word good is a dangerous word.

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Bit flirtatious.

I work in the

spoken word community. My friends

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have been overwhelmed with stories

of rape, in some cases of child

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grooming by people are -- active in

the artistic community. Really this

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to me is a grave problem. And I

reject the idea...

You are talking

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about as if that is a major issue in

your demographic. Are you telling me

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that among artistic people there is

a massive problem?

My point being

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that this issue exists across

industries. It exists in the legal

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world. I was a corporate lawyer by

training. I have a good friend who

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lost her job through six

discrimination. It is a broad issue.

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It is a structural problem.

I'm

really worried about the rhetoric I

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am hearing about women, the

suggestion that all women are

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victims or going to be victims. I

have been working in various

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industries a decade now. This is not

my experience of work. This is not

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my experience of the women I know.

Why would you call them hysterical?

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I'm calling what is happening now

hysteria. I don't buy this idea that

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all women are potential victims of

sexual harassment.

Who said that?

We

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have to understand the context. I

think it is really important to note

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that a parliament were sexual

harassment claims this big, is the

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same Parliament that has been

cutting funding to domestic violence

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refuges, pushing through austerity

policies that are making women

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disproportionately poorer and

hurting them disproportionately,

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that has not been dealing with the

on affordability of childcare and a

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total lack of social care. And all

of these things are part of the same

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continuum, which is failing to

understand the huge power imbalance

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between men and women that we have

to tackle if we are to end this.

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Let's see what men and women are

saying at home.

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Yes, Natalie says it is all about

people learning to behave properly

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with respect. All of my female

friends have been grabbed and groped

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at work. We are finally seeing it as

a part of society we don't have to

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put up with. Becky says men are

starting to see what women ever to

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live with for years. But now

hopefully men see what we deal with

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and can help to stop it. But Paula

says there needs to be a sense of

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balance. I worry that some good men,

and they do exist, would be caught

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up in this when they have done

nothing wrong. Debbie says it is an

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absolute witchhunt. My son is

worried if these tortures somebody's

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arm he will be labelled a crazed six

pest. Some men should be called out

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but not -- but most don't.

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Interesting, looking to the future,

in ten years' time when we have this

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conversation, Sophie, will this be

seen as a watershed moment question

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mark

for me, certainly, I hope this

is the point where people realise

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the UK feminist political not a

niche issue but fundamental to way

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we do politics.

I'm worried about

the effect this is going to have on

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men and women's relationships in the

workplace. I mean, let's not forget

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that people date their colleagues

and marry their colleagues, people

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flirt at work and they enjoy banter.

This kind of topic always lends

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itself to ending up with more

regulation and I feel like we will

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end up in a place where any

interaction between men and women in

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the workplace is going to be

regarded as suspicious and that's

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not a workplace I want to work in.

In ten years' time, I'm going to get

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you together and see who is right!

Thank you.

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Poet and performer Benjamin

Zephaniah once described himself

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as an angry young man.

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Now he says he's an angry old man,

riled about the injustices

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in society that he still sees.

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There is an epic in my ear, though

the novel in my navel, there is a

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classic here somewhere.

You knew at

quite an early age that he wanted to

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be a poet, about eight, is that

right?

Yes, I always knew I wanted

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to be a poet, even before I knew

what that was.

Where did it come

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from? Orange maggot it was about the

love of words. I did not even know

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the word poem or poet, I just knew I

loved the way that words rhymed,

I'm

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love the way word could have a

different rhythm or meaning

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depending on how you said it. Be

nice to your turkey this Christmas.

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Don't eat it, keep it alive, it

could be your mate and not on your

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plate, said, yellow, Turkey, man,

I'm on your side. There was a period

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when I was... I got in trouble with

the law and all that kind of thing

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so poetry really did save me. I've

got lots of friends who are turkeys

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and all of them fear Christmas day

and they said, Ben, man, I want to

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enjoy it. It is a Jamaican turkey!

When you were growing up, your mum

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was a Christian, was it an important

part of your life? Width very

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important, we were in church all the

time. They were churches with very

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charismatic preachers.

I think they

were poetic.

You grew up with your

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Christian background and then you

move to raster Ferrari. What

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prompted that? -- you moved to Dan

Bunn.

You can be political and

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spiritual at the same time, Christie

de started me on the path and

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Rastafari continued that and I've

got to a place now where I believe

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in God without religion, God before

religion, if you like. I just

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believe that God manifests her

through nature and through

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meditation, we can get close to God.

Actually, we don't get close to God,

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we become one with God.

Talk to me a

bit about meditation because I know

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that is important to you, tai chi,

you spend a lot of time in China.

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Tell me about where the interest has

come from.

It slows you down. It

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calms you down. When you are so

relaxed because you have to be

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really relaxed when you are doing

tai chi, there is something about

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the consciousness that you have that

makes you realise that you are not a

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body that has a spirit or soul, you

are a soul that has a body.

I read

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you started writing poetry because

you did not like poetry.

Yes.

What

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did you mean by that?

What I meant

was, there was a lot of poetry I was

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getting at school that I just did

not identify with, you know. Some of

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it was great poetry but it was the

way it was presented to me, and it

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was, you know, there's no other way

of putting this, it was dead white

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men. I wanted to create poetry that

was different from that. Here, the

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past and future meet. This is no

ordinary street. Goodness gracious,

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lo and behold, the greatness of the

Soul Road.

You said you were an

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angry young man. Are you still

angry?

Yes, I suppose I'm an angry

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old man, now, still angry. I'm

surprised I'm still so angry. I

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thought... There are so many issues

I thought would have been dealt with

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by now. If you look at what people

are talking about right now as we

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speak, the kind of abuse against

women in the workplace, wherever it

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is, in politics, in the arts or

whatever, if you'd had asked me like

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20 years ago, would we be here now,

I would say absolutely not, there

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was a big feminist movement in the

70s, we were going to deal with

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this. I just can't believe we are

back here. I cannot believe we are

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talking about race almost every day

in the media and we talk about

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dividing into religious groups and

nationalistic groups and all this

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kind of thing. I thought the world

was coming together. I really

0:20:420:20:45

thought we were just going to have a

lovefest now. Black is not the

0:20:450:20:49

problem. Mother country, get it

right, and just for the record, some

0:20:490:20:53

of my best friends are white.

Back

in 2003, you rejected an OBE. Can

0:20:530:21:01

you tell me about that?

I don't

really like talking about it because

0:21:010:21:05

I always say it is something I

didn't do, I didn't take it, order

0:21:050:21:10

of the British Empire, as soon as

you stop reading my poetry, you will

0:21:100:21:13

see that I'm against empire. How can

I say that I'm against slavery and

0:21:130:21:20

the link to Empire and then attach

it to my name? The day I should have

0:21:200:21:24

got my OBE, I was in a book shop in

east London talking to children.

0:21:240:21:28

That is where my heart is. Oh, no,

bless myself, clever Trevor's scored

0:21:280:21:34

a goal, so he runs up the pitch and

wriggles his botty...

Are you

0:21:340:21:45

searching for stroke charity or is

that something you have achieved?

I

0:21:450:21:49

have -- searching for spirituality.

I'm not searching any more. In the

0:21:490:21:53

80s I used to go to Jerusalem and

Jordan, all these places of

0:21:530:21:56

pilgrimage, to try to find myself

and all that kind of stuff. Now I

0:21:560:22:00

can find myself wherever I am. I'm

not on a spiritual quest any more.

0:22:000:22:08

What I really want now is... I look

at the world and I just want to make

0:22:080:22:16

the world a better place.

That

sounds good to me.

I tried.

Perhaps

0:22:160:22:21

we could end with a line of your

poetry that you think reflects where

0:22:210:22:24

you are at right now. Your attitude.

A line of poetry? Thunder makes me

0:22:240:22:33

wonder, lightning makes me like, the

world's a mess but there is hope,

0:22:330:22:39

that is why I write.

0:22:390:22:44

Benjamin Zephaniah.

0:22:440:22:46

Still to come on Sunday

Morning Live...

0:22:460:22:48

the Muslim community action

group and how you can

0:22:480:22:50

qualify to join them.

0:22:500:22:53

You don't need to have a beard to be

part of Bearded Broz or be a Muslim,

0:22:530:22:58

we are just a scheme for people who

thought we wanted to do something

0:22:580:23:00

for our community.

0:23:000:23:03

Have you walked past a homeless

person on the street recently

0:23:050:23:08

and wondered whether you should

give them money?

0:23:080:23:10

That's a dilemma we'll

be discussing shortly.

0:23:100:23:11

First, let's hear about a scheme

launched this week in London

0:23:110:23:15

to direct people sleeping rough

to a place where they

0:23:150:23:17

can get a hot meal.

0:23:170:23:18

Comedians Lee Mack and Sean Lock

were at the launch event

0:23:180:23:21

to offer their backing,

along with actress Naomie Harris,

0:23:210:23:23

star of the James Bond films

and Pirates of the Caribbean.

0:23:230:23:26

I went along too,

in a supporting role.

0:23:260:23:29

Earlier this week, a group of

well-known celebrities gathered in

0:23:330:23:36

central London to help launch a new

website called NextMeal with the aim

0:23:360:23:42

of helping the capital's homeless

find the nearest place to get some

0:23:420:23:45

hot food.

Normally, I get applause

when I walk out.

APPLAUSE

0:23:450:23:53

Movie star Naomie Harris, best known

for playing Miss Moneypenny in the

0:23:530:23:57

latest James Bond films, was at the

launch.

For me, the idea of not

0:23:570:24:02

having a roof over your head, not

having a warm meal in your stomach,

0:24:020:24:05

you know, I just think they're

rather think that in a country as

0:24:050:24:10

advanced as Britain, nobody should

have to suffer that.

The website is

0:24:100:24:17

the brainchild of Martin Stone, who

runs a soup kitchen at his church in

0:24:170:24:20

Muswell Hill. What exactly does the

website do?

It holds data on all the

0:24:200:24:29

provision for, you know, soup

kitchens, advice and support, in

0:24:290:24:32

London, so it tells you what

provision is there, what is open now

0:24:320:24:36

and it will help you at the instant

of your need.

Comedian Sean Lock is

0:24:360:24:41

one of Martin's neighbours and got

involved after he was approached to

0:24:410:24:44

help in Martin's soup kitchen.

I

obviously said, I will come up and

0:24:440:24:49

help out at some point. I didn't

mean it, obviously. I want to say at

0:24:490:24:54

this point, I'm not a good person, I

don't do lots of good charity work.

0:24:540:24:58

People knock on my door for

charities and I always have the same

0:24:580:25:01

excuse, I'm putting my kids to bed,

I does go, sorry, I'm putting my

0:25:010:25:05

kids to bed, even if it's 10:30am on

Saturday. I'm not one of the world's

0:25:050:25:10

roll your sleeves up, go out and do

good in the world. I mean to but I

0:25:100:25:15

never quite get round to it. I

always find a reason not to do it

0:25:150:25:18

but I went up there and did it.

Did

washing up?

Yes, washing up,

0:25:180:25:24

serving, collecting plate, chatting

to some of the homeless people who

0:25:240:25:26

go to the soup kitchen. My approach

was, "I've done that", like a

0:25:260:25:30

parachute jump. But I thought I

could not do this anyway but Martin

0:25:300:25:34

said there was another way to help,

he'd created this website, NextMeal,

0:25:340:25:38

based in London at the moment and a

lot of people said, what? Homeless

0:25:380:25:44

people have phones? Yes, they do. I

got involved with being to help out

0:25:440:25:49

in that way rather than the standard

of my washing-up.

And I'd see the

0:25:490:25:52

standard of his washing-up.

It's

pretty poor.

Fellow comedian Lee

0:25:520:25:56

Mack is on board.

I come here as

pretty much the Newby amongst

0:25:560:26:00

everyone because we first met when I

was on a James Bond film with you.

0:26:000:26:05

LAUGHTER

The scheme is also aimed at the

0:26:050:26:07

wider public and could offer an

alternative way they can help when

0:26:070:26:11

encountering someone who is sleeping

rough.

I am the person, really, that

0:26:110:26:15

the campaign is aimed at. I have

done the three things you could do,

0:26:150:26:19

give money, don't give money, or you

give money and then wonder if you've

0:26:190:26:23

done the right thing. When Sean

mentioned it, I wondered what the

0:26:230:26:27

correct thing was, what you are

supposed to do and coming here

0:26:270:26:30

today, I realised it is not that

black and white. It is not yes you

0:26:300:26:35

should or shouldn't give. It is the

third option if you choose to take

0:26:350:26:38

it, which is to say, "This will get

you a hot meal".

I think it's very

0:26:380:26:43

hard to walk past someone who is

asking if the money and seems to be

0:26:430:26:47

in need but the wonderful thing

about helping in the soup kitchen

0:26:470:26:49

that I learned was in fact, there

are many places like that in London.

0:26:490:26:54

There's no need for anyone in London

to ever go without a meal. Breakfast

0:26:540:26:58

is being served all the time, lunch

and dinner. You can have three

0:26:580:27:03

meals, hot meals in a day in London

at any time.

To publicise the

0:27:030:27:09

website, Londoners are encouraged to

hand out special information cards

0:27:090:27:11

to the homeless.

Even if you just

tell people there is a place called

0:27:110:27:17

NextMeal, a website, it is fairly

civil to remember.

And the other way

0:27:170:27:21

to do it is produced them by magic

and that is why I'm a light

0:27:210:27:25

entertainer.

You can actually do it!

You make these judgments, you start

0:27:250:27:30

making these judgments and you look

at the person, maybe not as a

0:27:300:27:33

person, you look at somebody and

think, is it a scam or is it

0:27:330:27:38

genuine? If it is genuine, do they

need the money for drugs or alcohol?

0:27:380:27:41

You went to this sort of labyrinth

of moral choices. What it does is...

0:27:410:27:48

I don't know the right word to use,

people who are not homeless, walking

0:27:480:27:52

past, it lets them know about this

huge network of volunteers, of

0:27:520:27:57

charities, not just charities, just

people providing free food to

0:27:570:28:00

homeless people in London.

0:28:000:28:02

The launch of the new

project, NextMeal.

0:28:020:28:06

Let's discuss the broader

problems presented by people

0:28:060:28:08

sleeping rough now.

How should we help the homeless?

0:28:080:28:11

Joining me now are Matt Broomfield,

a writer and activist.

0:28:110:28:13

Jon Kuhrt, Chief Executive

of the West London Mission charity.

0:28:130:28:16

And Poppy Noor, a journalist

who used to be homeless.

0:28:160:28:23

Matt, starting with you. We have

heard about the dilemma in the film

0:28:230:28:27

that people face when I pass

somebody who is homeless. Do you

0:28:270:28:30

give or not? What do you say?

As Lee

Mack said, it is not a black and

0:28:300:28:34

white issue but the message we are

handed from the government and media

0:28:340:28:38

is often that we must not give, we

must create a hostile environment

0:28:380:28:41

for homeless people on the street,

such that they feel the only option

0:28:410:28:45

they can follow is to go elsewhere

for help but in fact, I think, the

0:28:450:28:49

reasons people on the streets are

much more complicated and structural

0:28:490:28:52

than simply the fact somebody might

give them 50p as they sit outside

0:28:520:28:55

Tesco. You could as easily kill

someone by walking past and not

0:28:550:29:00

giving them money as you could by

giving them money, in that sense,

0:29:000:29:03

and it is important to tackle these

issues on a wider scale and at the

0:29:030:29:07

same time, to take people seriously,

when they say they need money, to

0:29:070:29:11

believe them and give them the kind

of dignity and respect they deserve

0:29:110:29:14

of handing them what they ask for.

So you say give money?

Yet, I think

0:29:140:29:19

so. Have a conversation.

80% of

people, it is estimated in London,

0:29:190:29:24

who are on the streets, have an

addiction of some sort. People will

0:29:240:29:28

think you are just giving money to

feed the addiction.

I think it is

0:29:280:29:33

facile and almost quite cruel to say

that the way an addiction is fed is

0:29:330:29:37

by either somebody handing that

money or someone asking for it and

0:29:370:29:40

taking it. As we know, the causes

and drivers of addiction are much

0:29:400:29:45

more structural and long-term and at

that point when someone is on the

0:29:450:29:48

street and asking for money, you

know they are going to get it

0:29:480:29:50

somehow, whether they are begging

for hours into the night or whether

0:29:500:29:53

they are committing crime, doing

dangerous sex work. They will get

0:29:530:29:57

the money.

People think the money is

leading the addiction in helping to

0:29:570:30:00

keep them in that state.

I don't

think that is true. The way to help

0:30:000:30:05

someone with an addiction is not,

you know, if someone in your family

0:30:050:30:10

had an addiction, you wouldn't just

cut them off. You would offer them

0:30:100:30:14

support.

Would you give them money

to feed the addiction?

I don't like

0:30:140:30:19

the language of feeding the

addiction, the addiction is fed by

0:30:190:30:23

the poverty and their surroundings.

The thing is, social injustice is a

0:30:230:30:28

huge problem and that is what is

driving the rising numbers of

0:30:280:30:31

homeless people. But I just think

that the actual addiction is that

0:30:310:30:35

people face are fed by mindless, or

people seeking to be compassionate

0:30:350:30:43

but it's not being effective and we

should be kind and seeking to come

0:30:430:30:49

alongside people. That is what the

mission is all about, trying to help

0:30:490:30:52

people come off the streets but the

people who work on the front line,

0:30:520:30:56

I've been working with homeless

people for over 20 years, and Matt

0:30:560:30:59

is just wrong, that actually, the

addictions are fed by people handing

0:30:590:31:04

over cash and it gets in the way of

helping those people come off the

0:31:040:31:09

streets. Being on the street is so

dangerous.

0:31:090:31:13

Once you give the money, it is their

money.

Is all about understanding

0:31:170:31:22

the terribly warping effects

addiction has. It has affected my

0:31:220:31:28

family as well. Matt said if a

member of your family was affected.

0:31:280:31:33

My cousin was struggling with heroin

addiction for 20 years. It did him

0:31:330:31:37

no good to have money, the money

that he scrounged off people, did

0:31:370:31:46

him no good. That caused damage. He

died this Christmas. It was the

0:31:460:31:52

terrible reality that so many people

face. The tragic reality is that

0:31:520:31:55

people are struggling through a

whole range of issues and we have to

0:31:550:32:00

focus on how we help them to come

off the streets.

It is a very

0:32:000:32:03

complex picture, isn't it? Not all

people who beg are homeless and vice

0:32:030:32:08

versa. It is more complicated.

Yes,

first of all I would ask how you

0:32:080:32:14

find out that 80% of people begging

on the street are addicted to drugs.

0:32:140:32:18

There are a lot of different forms

of homelessness. People don't

0:32:180:32:23

necessarily sit in one place and

beg. They may travel back and forth

0:32:230:32:26

on bass -- on buses. It is not all

about people asking for money for

0:32:260:32:32

the next hit. You might be as in my

situation young and vulnerable and

0:32:320:32:36

you can't live at home any more.

There is a broader question. In

0:32:360:32:45

between somebody being homeless and

has not been given money, if there

0:32:450:32:48

aren't enough services, if the right

places for people to go, and

0:32:480:32:52

homelessness is rising massively and

there aren't enough places for

0:32:520:32:55

everybody, if we stopped giving to

everybody, not everybody will find a

0:32:550:32:59

bed that night. There is a question

about how we decide how people

0:32:590:33:02

should deal with their misery,

they're cold and discomfort, and how

0:33:020:33:06

they should live their lives in that

situation.

0:33:060:33:09

I'm joined now by someone

who once was homeless,

0:33:090:33:12

and is now a member of the House

of Lords - John Bird, founder

0:33:120:33:15

of The Big Issue magazine.

0:33:150:33:17

Good morning.

Good morning.

You have

written previously that people

0:33:170:33:23

should not give cash to those on the

street. Do you still have that view?

0:33:230:33:28

I have had all sorts of views. I

started by believing it was better

0:33:280:33:32

to give the people on the streets

because there wasn't enough revision

0:33:320:33:35

from all the organisations. I moved

on to changing my mind and saying

0:33:350:33:42

that actually it's not a good idea

to keep people on the streets. What

0:33:420:33:47

I think the real problem is the fact

that if you don't give the people on

0:33:470:33:51

the street, is the provision there

for them to get off the streets? My

0:33:510:33:57

argument, the reason I went into the

House of Lords, is to dismantle

0:33:570:34:00

poverty, to stop poverty from

happening, preventing property. --

0:34:000:34:07

poverty. All of the debates are

always around accepting the fact

0:34:070:34:10

that people should street -- Street

on the streets. And should be added

0:34:100:34:14

begging. I would go back to removing

people from the street and putting

0:34:140:34:21

them in a place of safety. As far as

my experience is concerned, most of

0:34:210:34:27

the people I know on the streets are

either having mental health problems

0:34:270:34:30

or will for as long as they are on

the streets. This is a national

0:34:300:34:35

health issue. This is not just

about, can we do this, can we do

0:34:350:34:40

that? It is a real big issue. The

big issue, what are we going to do

0:34:400:34:44

about those poor people who are

dying before us? What I want is the

0:34:440:34:50

government to put money into places

of safety. Not the old mental

0:34:500:34:54

institutions. When they close down

in 1985, the streets filled up

0:34:540:34:59

almost immediately. I want to extend

this argument. The A&E department

0:34:590:35:07

has moved to our streets. And I

really regret that.

In the meantime,

0:35:070:35:12

when people are walking past those

who are homeless, perhaps today,

0:35:120:35:16

what should they do? They are at

with your power.

I'm sorry, it is up

0:35:160:35:22

to you. I agree with the chap who

says it is not black and white. I

0:35:220:35:26

agree with him. This is not black

and white. You have to try to engage

0:35:260:35:32

with that person. I always talk to

homeless people. I give money to

0:35:320:35:37

homeless people when I can help

them. But the problem is, the reason

0:35:370:35:42

I started the big issue was because

I wanted to lift people out of

0:35:420:35:47

begging, because begging screws your

mind.

Thank you. You have been

0:35:470:35:51

getting in touch. Erin says if she

see someone on the street when she

0:35:510:36:01

is grabbing lunch, she doesn't

hesitate to pick some lunch up for

0:36:010:36:05

them. Human interaction, that goes a

long way. Stewart says there are

0:36:050:36:10

loads of empty buildings all over

the country, give the property

0:36:100:36:15

owners in a 100% business rape

relief that if they allow empty

0:36:150:36:18

buildings to be used as shelters.

Another one from Sara Ogilvie says

0:36:180:36:24

the problem is some of the homeless

are Thomas. They are beggars looking

0:36:240:36:27

for money to get going. Yes, the

genuine ones do need help, but who

0:36:270:36:32

is genuine and it was not? And other

wants to help people wants to help

0:36:320:36:41

themselves. You can get off the

streets with hard work and

0:36:410:36:44

determination. I know, I did it. Now

I want to help those who wanted.

0:36:440:36:51

Nathan says scrap foreign aid until

there is no more homelessness. We

0:36:510:36:54

seem to care about others than

helping are wrong. Why do we vote?

0:36:540:36:59

For our own downfall. Thank you.

One of the things John Bird

0:36:590:37:06

mentioned was that if we are told

not to directly give to someone who

0:37:060:37:08

is homeless, we should not give that

as an excuse not to give at all.

0:37:080:37:12

That is the problem, people say, it

is not my problem.

Absolutely. We

0:37:120:37:20

should be giving and we should be

involved in this issue. And we

0:37:200:37:23

should be angry about how rough

sleeping has increased in the last

0:37:230:37:26

five years. It is a scandal. And

giving time and thoughtfully

0:37:260:37:33

encouraging people to make use of

the services that are available.

0:37:330:37:37

There is a shortage of hostel beds,

there is a shortage of affordable

0:37:370:37:40

housing. There isn't a shortage of

food. As Naomie Harris said, there

0:37:400:37:47

are places where people can go. I

would urge people when engaging with

0:37:470:37:52

someone who is sleeping rough, there

is a phone number people can form

0:37:520:37:57

where the outreach services can be

connected, but also to go to the

0:37:570:38:03

churches, the Centre is available

locally, where they can start making

0:38:030:38:06

the steps to come off the streets.

Poppy, you were nodding during John

0:38:060:38:12

Bird's interview. You spend time on

the street yourself.

I haven't. I

0:38:120:38:17

lived in hostels. There are lots of

different types of homelessness.

0:38:170:38:21

That is why you have to judge had on

a case to case basis. -- judge it.

0:38:210:38:26

Not everybody will want the money

for drugs. There could be loads of

0:38:260:38:32

reasons why they are asking.

You can

either be the kind of person who

0:38:320:38:37

gets to the end of the week and

thinks, no -- good, nobody fooled me

0:38:370:38:46

today by being a fake homeless

person. Or maybe you say, maybe

0:38:460:38:51

somebody did trick me but I know

that I helped.

0:38:510:38:54

I am afraid we are out of time.

Thank you all very much.

0:38:540:38:57

Now to a group of unique

volunteer workers.

0:38:570:39:01

The Bearded Broz began as a group

of friends clearing up

0:39:010:39:04

rubbish in Birmingham.

0:39:040:39:05

Since then, with their hi-vis

waistcoats and high energy approach,

0:39:050:39:08

they've become a familiar

and welcome sight around

0:39:080:39:10

the West Midlands.

0:39:100:39:11

Despite the name, having a beard

isn't a criteria for entry -

0:39:110:39:14

so Mehreen Baig was able to spend

a day as an honorary Bro.

0:39:140:39:24

Meet The Bearded Broz. They began as

Muslim volunteers who got together

0:39:250:39:31

in the summer to clear rubbish left

on the streets during the Birmingham

0:39:310:39:34

bin strike.

Ideally what you should

be doing is going to the tip.

Since

0:39:340:39:41

then, they have swelled in numbers

and taken on other projects like

0:39:410:39:47

tidying up city parks. And everyone

is welcome to join.

You don't need

0:39:470:39:52

to have a beard. You don't have to

be Muslim. We were just a scheme of

0:39:520:39:59

people who thought, let's do

something for our community. It is

0:39:590:40:02

not going to stop here.

One of the

schemes are helped to run is a food

0:40:020:40:07

bank for needy families. Imran, one

of the founders, is manning the

0:40:070:40:11

phones today.

Thanks, brother. God

bless. Bye-bye. What we have is a

0:40:110:40:20

refugee family, two children, a

three-year-old and 11-year-olds.

0:40:200:40:23

They haven't got any food. They have

been without money since September.

0:40:230:40:29

Social services have recommended we

help these people.

This must be

0:40:290:40:33

difficult because you are faced with

the stories on a regular basis?

0:40:330:40:37

Absolutely. It is heartbreaking. A

lot of our volunteers, a lot of

0:40:370:40:43

people are left in tears.

This is

where the food is kept? Sugar,

0:40:430:40:52

biscuits, pasta or writes.

The

family is mum and dad and two

0:40:520:40:59

children. They will get four these.

That would be sufficient for seven

0:40:590:41:02

to eight days. Rice pudding is

extremely good for kids.

Soup is

0:41:020:41:08

good. It is winter. It is cold. That

will warn them up.

Yeah. What you

0:41:080:41:15

see here now you will not see

tomorrow.

Some people so close to

0:41:150:41:22

home are having this for breakfast,

lunch and dinner every day. It

0:41:220:41:25

really highlights how grateful we

can be and it is quite unsettling.

0:41:250:41:30

It makes you think about all the

food you have wasted. All of the

0:41:300:41:34

food you have moaned about. I'm

sorry, I'm going to cry. Imran works

0:41:340:41:41

hard but feels it is a duty.

In

Muslim is not a Muslim if he goes to

0:41:410:41:48

bed satisfied while his neighbour

goes hungry.

Name-macro deliver

0:41:480:41:54

emergency passes around the city day

and night. -- The Bearded Broz. Have

0:41:540:41:59

you ever had people, where you have

turned up on the doorstep, and they

0:41:590:42:02

have seen that you are a Muslim and

they are quite nasty?

No. We have

0:42:020:42:07

gone to the door and their like, my

God, I didn't know Muslims like you

0:42:070:42:12

existed. I think people have a very

narrow minded tunnel vision of

0:42:120:42:17

Muslims. And I think this sort of

thing really brings it home to say,

0:42:170:42:21

hold on, not everybody is the same.

Inbee Park the team is going strong.

0:42:210:42:27

No time for a chat.

Surrey! I

thought I was running the show.

Some

0:42:270:42:32

volunteers joined The Bearded Broz.

Contacted him. I came out the next

0:42:320:42:38

day.

Imran has done a lot for us. We

are trying to give back and see what

0:42:380:42:46

-- what we can do to help.

It feels

great to be here to help Imran. At

0:42:460:42:51

the end of the day he helped me, so

off I can help him, all the better,

0:42:510:42:55

really.

I am trying really hard to

turn my life around. This gives me

0:42:550:43:01

out of trouble.

When I have been in

this situation people and help me.

0:43:010:43:06

It is nice to stop other people from

getting themselves in big trouble

0:43:060:43:10

and ending up on drugs.

Now read is

one of the founders of the group.

0:43:100:43:16

Within nine to five job, fitting in

volunteer work is a challenge.

I

0:43:160:43:21

say, I'm just popping out for a few

minutes. Then a clearer view

0:43:210:43:25

streets. It is like being Superman.

You put your high visibility jacket

0:43:250:43:30

on, you run round the corner, and

you do your work. It is not easy.

0:43:300:43:33

You guys have done really well.

Nature is natural and having rubbish

0:43:330:43:38

about is making it look untidy and

it is not very nice. People like us

0:43:380:43:43

need to clean it up.

We are the

decent people. Let's carry on

0:43:430:43:49

cleaning. There is plenty of litter

but it can hold hidden dangers.

You

0:43:490:43:54

have to be careful where you step on

what you pick up. You pick up a

0:43:540:43:59

crisp packet then there could be a

couple of needles in there.

0:43:590:44:05

Name-macro may be relatively small

but they are doing a big job by

0:44:050:44:10

pulling the community closer

together.

-- The Bearded Broz. I'm

0:44:100:44:13

really happy that other people are

coming to this and they are saying,

0:44:130:44:19

this is our community and we are

going to do something about it. As

0:44:190:44:22

you can see, it's across the board.

The community cohesion is there.

0:44:220:44:28

This is what I almost -- always

dreamt of and we have got it.

0:44:280:44:32

This week marked 500 years

since the German scholar and monk,

0:44:320:44:34

Martin Luther, started

the Reformation by hammering

0:44:340:44:36

95 theses to the door

of the Castle Church in Wittenberg.

0:44:360:44:42

Luther felt the Catholic Church had

moved away from the teaching of God

0:44:420:44:45

and was corrupt.

0:44:450:44:46

His actions set in motion the

formation of the Protestant Church.

0:44:460:44:49

On Tuesday, a group called the

Protestant Truth Society took out

0:44:490:44:52

a full page advert in

the Daily Telegraph saying that

0:44:520:44:55

Britain needs reformation today.

0:44:550:44:58

It suggested that, just

as in Luther's time,

0:44:580:45:01

today's society has turned away

from the teachings of the Bible.

0:45:010:45:05

So are they right -

do we need a new Reformation?

0:45:050:45:09

Here to discuss that

are Duncan Boyd, the Director

0:45:090:45:13

of the Protestant Truth Society,

who placed the advert

0:45:130:45:15

in the Telegraph.

0:45:150:45:16

Ariane Sherine, a comedian

and writer who was part

0:45:160:45:18

of the UK's first ever atheist

advertising campaign.

0:45:180:45:22

And Rabbi Jonathan Romain from

Maidenhead Synagogue is a writer

0:45:220:45:24

and interfaith campaigner.

0:45:240:45:31

Duncan, you are part of the society

that called for the new Reformation

0:45:310:45:35

this week. What is so wrong with

modern society that we need a

0:45:350:45:39

Reformation?

Well, we can see that

there are a lot of problems in

0:45:390:45:43

Britain today. We don't live in a

society which is without ethical

0:45:430:45:49

questions, without ethical problems.

People have many questions about

0:45:490:45:52

these things and the two other

debates that you've had on the

0:45:520:45:57

programme before on homelessness and

sexual harassment, raised ethical

0:45:570:46:02

questions so people have a question

about what is right and wrong. The

0:46:020:46:06

Protestant Reformation was important

because it said that the answer to

0:46:060:46:12

those questions are found in what

God says to us. There is an

0:46:120:46:18

objective standard of right and

wrong. That objective standard is

0:46:180:46:22

not set by us. It is set by God. If

you want to know what God says, what

0:46:220:46:29

the standard is, you need to read

his word.

Ariane, if we were more

0:46:290:46:35

religious, we would be a better,

more moral society?

Absolutely not,

0:46:350:46:41

absolutely not, religious people

don't have a monopoly on morality.

0:46:410:46:43

We live in a beautiful country and

it is so ethnically diverse and

0:46:430:46:49

socially progressive. We are more

liberal than ever. We have equal

0:46:490:46:52

rights for gay people to marry and I

believe this is something that

0:46:520:46:57

Duncan wanted to put in his advert,

that gay people shouldn't be allowed

0:46:570:47:01

to get married and I think that is

wrong. He says there are ethical

0:47:010:47:04

debate and he's coming down on the

wrong side of all of the debates,

0:47:040:47:07

for gay rights, abortion and

euthanasia, to name but three.

0:47:070:47:11

Jonathan, is an established church a

good or bad thing?

Actually, I think

0:47:110:47:16

it does quite well in two centres.

Firstly, it is a source for ethics,

0:47:160:47:21

not the only one by any means but it

is able to hold up truth to power

0:47:210:47:25

and able to hold an ethical

scorecard, even to government and

0:47:250:47:29

secondly, it's a very good at every

now and then expressing a national

0:47:290:47:32

will. It may not capture everybody's

mood on a Sunday morning but for

0:47:320:47:36

those big occasions, it has got the

right tools, Thanksgiving, a

0:47:360:47:39

coronation aura when it -- or a

wedding, expressing morning at a

0:47:390:47:45

funeral. We are at age 's pointed

today where frankly, in some ways,

0:47:450:47:48

the church has failed because

churches are emptying and it has

0:47:480:47:52

lost the country due to have 100

years ago but on the other hand,

0:47:520:47:55

people still have religious

inclinations and asked the big

0:47:550:47:57

questions. Who am I? Where am I

going? What is it for? Perhaps

0:47:570:48:01

Duncan is right, we need a

Reformation but the church needs to

0:48:010:48:04

look in the mirror and say, "What

are the good things and where have

0:48:040:48:10

we gone wrong?" Maybe the problem

is, people believe in the ethics and

0:48:100:48:13

morality but not necessarily the

doctrine.

We were let Duncan picked

0:48:130:48:16

up on that. But first, let's see

what people are saying ten. Jed

0:48:160:48:23

says, Brittany direct mission but

not in terms of our superstitious

0:48:230:48:26

past, we need to develop the new

enlightenment that is happening

0:48:260:48:29

naturally". Karen says, "Anything

that cap present the teachings of

0:48:290:48:33

the Bible in a modern, non-fusty way

can only be a good thing. If we can

0:48:330:48:37

no learn and live good lives from

the Bible 's word, surely we will

0:48:370:48:41

benefit?"

Duncan, what are you worried about

0:48:410:48:44

if we don't have a Reformation now?

Wright I think British society would

0:48:440:48:48

cover much more ugly place. People

will become more selfish.

I'm

0:48:480:48:52

agreeing with Jonathan that the

heart of the Christian faith is the

0:48:520:48:56

Christian gospel, so the heart of it

is a theological truth, Jesus Christ

0:48:560:49:00

was God incarnate. If you wish to

come to know the God who made you,

0:49:000:49:04

you need to repent of your sins and

put your faith in Jesus Christ, it

0:49:040:49:10

is called theological truth but I

think also the Ten Commandments, I

0:49:100:49:13

think are of abiding, universal

authority. The Ten Commandments are

0:49:130:49:18

regression of two other

commandments, when Christ was asked

0:49:180:49:20

by a Pharisee, what are the most

important commandments, he quoted

0:49:200:49:24

from Leviticus and Deuteronomy and

from Deuteronomy is, "You shall love

0:49:240:49:28

the Lord your God with all your

heart, all your mind, all your soul

0:49:280:49:32

and all your strength", and the

quote from Leviticus 19 is commie

0:49:320:49:36

"You shall love your neighbour as

yourself". If we all adhere to those

0:49:360:49:40

standards, we will have a better

society.

Ariane, you are shaking

0:49:400:49:44

head and if you had a Reformation, I

suppose you would get rid of

0:49:440:49:48

religion?

I think everyone has the

right to believe what they want but

0:49:480:49:51

these are problematic ideas, the

idea of sin, you believe in original

0:49:510:49:54

sin.

I do.

I have a six-year-old

daughter, she's wonderful, she's

0:49:540:50:00

never seen me on TV before so hello,

Lily, she's the most innocent,

0:50:000:50:04

funny, sweet girl and of course she

is naughty but this idea that

0:50:040:50:07

children are born evil and people

are born evil, I mean, I spent my

0:50:070:50:11

childhood being told by my dad that

I was bad and wrong and disgusting

0:50:110:50:15

and revolting and eventually I ended

in a -- in an abusive religion

0:50:150:50:19

should because that is what happens

when you tell people they are

0:50:190:50:22

worthless, when people grow up

believing they are inherently bad

0:50:220:50:25

and I think that is morally

reprehensible and the idea that

0:50:250:50:28

Christians have amorality --

monopoly on morality, look at Donald

0:50:280:50:32

Trump and the majority of the Tory

party are Christian and they are not

0:50:320:50:35

improving people's lives.

You are

created in the image of God and so

0:50:350:50:39

is your daughter. That means she is

of infinite value. You're quite

0:50:390:50:45

right, I believe in the doctrine of

original sin but it teaches two

0:50:450:50:48

things, one is that we are created

beings, God made us, we did not make

0:50:480:50:53

ourselves.

God made us and that

means your daughter is of infinite

0:50:530:50:57

value in the eyes of God. That it is

also true that the Bible teaches

0:50:570:51:01

that we have a corrupt nature. We

have a balance towards sin. It is

0:51:010:51:06

not saying your daughter is

worthless, original sin does not

0:51:060:51:08

teach that.

Let's talk about

Ariane's daughter or theology too

0:51:080:51:14

much. Jonathan, are you optimistic

religion can thrive in the future,

0:51:140:51:17

when we have this conversation,

looking back, will it be very

0:51:170:51:22

different?

I think religion has a

curious opportunity at the moment,

0:51:220:51:26

precisely because local pubs,

village halls and community centres

0:51:260:51:28

are growing but churches and other

religious institutions are

0:51:280:51:31

wonderfully placed to offer a place

of community and I think that is

0:51:310:51:35

what people want, community and

camaraderie and fellowship with an

0:51:350:51:38

ethical base. They are not really

into doctrine which is why churches

0:51:380:51:41

are emptying. It is almost as if

people want to believe but find they

0:51:410:51:46

can't believe what is on offer so

maybe the church, if you don't mind

0:51:460:51:49

me saying so, as do sort of change

horses a bit and concentrate on the

0:51:490:51:53

community and play to its strengths,

not some of its weaknesses.

Thank

0:51:530:51:56

you for joining us.

0:51:560:51:58

In 2009, 17-year-old

Henry Fraser was enjoying life.

0:51:580:52:01

He loved sport and was

a promising rugby player.

0:52:010:52:03

But an accident in Portugal

while on holiday with friends

0:52:030:52:08

changed everything, leaving him

paralysed from the neck down

0:52:080:52:11

and facing challenges

he could never have imagined.

0:52:110:52:15

Wendy Robbins went to meet Henry

to find out how he rebuilt his life

0:52:150:52:20

Eight years ago, everything in Henry

Fraser's life changed. An accident

0:52:280:52:33

left him paralysed from the neck

down. But that hasn't stopped him

0:52:330:52:37

from pursuing new goals and dreams.

Hi, Henry. How are you? VERY good,

0:52:370:52:48

thank you, how are you? Very well,

lovely colours. The injury that left

0:52:480:52:53

Henry paralysed was caused by a

split-second of bad luck while on

0:52:530:52:56

holiday with friends in Portugal.

I

woke up late, down to the beach,

0:52:560:53:00

very hot day, me and two other guys

went to run to the water to cool

0:53:000:53:06

down. I ran to what I thought was a

good depth and I dived forward but

0:53:060:53:13

where I dived, the sea bed was very

undulating and I dived in and banged

0:53:130:53:17

my head straight into the sea bed. I

opened my eyes to be looking down

0:53:170:53:25

and my arms were just dangling in

front of me, not able to move at

0:53:250:53:29

all. After that point, I thought

that was it for me. Two of my mates

0:53:290:53:34

dragged me onto the beach and from

then on, kind of, everything

0:53:340:53:38

changed.

His mum Francesco remembers

vividly the day she found out about

0:53:380:53:47

the severity of her son's injury.

I

remember the time, I got a call at

0:53:470:53:53

5:30am from one of the parents and

as soon as you hear it is one of the

0:53:530:53:58

parents of the boys your son is away

with, immediately just get that

0:53:580:54:02

feeling much your whole body just...

Is aware that something is not

0:54:020:54:07

right. He told us Henry had had an

accident. We just booked the next

0:54:070:54:13

flight out.

You must have been

terrified.

It's really weird. You

0:54:130:54:17

just go into motion, you just go

into the process. Once we got to

0:54:170:54:23

hospital and then found the

intensive care unit, we were waiting

0:54:230:54:26

and waiting and then the surgeon

comes in and he immediately told us

0:54:260:54:31

our son was quadriplegic and would

be for the rest of his life. So my

0:54:310:54:35

instant reaction was to scream and

he basically said, "Mrs Fraser, your

0:54:350:54:40

son needs you now more than ever, so

have control", and I did. OK.

Two

0:54:400:54:50

months after the accident, Henry

caught sight of his own reflection

0:54:500:54:54

for the first time.

I looked at it

and said, "That's not me". I had

0:54:540:55:00

lost four stone. I just lost it. I

was just crying, staring at the

0:55:000:55:07

ceiling, then kind of just thought,

"Well, there's no point in being

0:55:070:55:13

sad, it has happened, I may as well

just get on with it". From that day,

0:55:130:55:17

my mindset completely changed, from

that day, I could focus on what I

0:55:170:55:22

needed to focus on and avoid

anything negative or pointless or

0:55:220:55:25

anything that would not help me

progress.

Henry is determined to

0:55:250:55:29

make the most of the very few

movements he is capable of, using

0:55:290:55:34

the only working muscles he has at

the back of his neck and it is those

0:55:340:55:38

same neck muscles which now allow

him to express himself so

0:55:380:55:42

creatively. How did it start? What

made you think, "I'm going to put a

0:55:420:55:47

paintbrush in my mouth and paint

like that"?

It all started because I

0:55:470:55:52

had a sore on my back so I was stuck

in bed for a few weeks and was

0:55:520:55:56

getting really bored, and thought I

would find something to draw with,

0:55:560:55:59

something different to do. It

started that way, kind of, very

0:55:590:56:04

basic drawings, and then when I was

well enough to get out of bed, I

0:56:040:56:08

came downstairs and was using

pencils, and a few months after

0:56:080:56:12

that, I was given this easel so I

could use paint and paint brushes.

0:56:120:56:16

What do you get out of painting in

this way?

It kind of gives me a

0:56:160:56:21

freedom and an independence, I can

sit here without needing anyone to

0:56:210:56:26

come in and check on me and if I

need help -- I don't need help with

0:56:260:56:36

paint or changing brushes, sometimes

I can sit for hours in my own world,

0:56:360:56:39

doing what I want, what I love. That

is really why I love it and enjoy

0:56:390:56:44

doing it.

Life today couldn't be

more different from Henry's teenage

0:56:440:56:49

years in so many ways.

Before my

accident, I was very physically

0:56:490:56:54

strong but mentally weak, I used to

say. I turned down so many

0:56:540:56:58

opportunities I was given. I was too

scared to do them and I was too

0:56:580:57:01

scared of failing. Now any

opportunity that comes to me, I will

0:57:010:57:06

say yes, and if I fail, it doesn't

matter, at least I can say I tried.

0:57:060:57:11

Now he has a full life, juggling his

two passions, motivational speaking

0:57:110:57:15

and his art. You are an inspiration

now to so many other people but what

0:57:150:57:21

inspires you? What makes your life

meaningful?

I get to wake up and do

0:57:210:57:25

a job, and jobs that I really love

and really enjoyed and when I look

0:57:250:57:31

at my life in that way, I consider

myself very lucky. Honestly, I'm

0:57:310:57:34

never down about my situation. I

like trying to push myself now,

0:57:340:57:40

whether it be during physio or with

art. It has given me that joy, that

0:57:400:57:45

love for creating a painting and

drawing. If I hadn't had the

0:57:450:57:49

accident when I was going through

school, I would have given up art.

0:57:490:57:53

It has given me a gift because I

have been given some incredible

0:57:530:57:58

opportunity through my art. I had my

first ever public exhibition last

0:57:580:58:03

summer. The Times commissioned me to

do a piece for their front cover for

0:58:030:58:06

the Rugby World Cup two years ago.

I've met some incredible people

0:58:060:58:09

through it as well. It has kind of

taken over and given me so much.

0:58:090:58:15

Henry Fraser, an inspiration.

0:58:230:58:26

That's all from us for this week.

0:58:260:58:27

And for this series

of Sunday Morning Live.

0:58:270:58:29

We hope you've enjoyed

it as much as we have.

0:58:290:58:32

Many thanks to all our guests

today and throughout

0:58:320:58:34

the series, and you at home

for all of your contributions.

0:58:340:58:37

For the last time this year,

it's goodbye from everyone

0:58:370:58:39

here in the studio, and the whole

Sunday Morning Live team.

0:58:390:58:42

Goodbye.

0:58:420:58:44

Is there a 'witch hunt' over harassment? Sean Fletcher and Emma Barnett lead debate. Plus James Bond actress Naomie Harris on why she is helping to launch a new scheme for the homeless, and poet Benjamin Zephaniah on why Tai Chi has given him inner peace.