Wladimir Klitschko, World Heavyweight Boxing Champion, 2006 - 2015 Extra Time

Now on BBC News, Extra Time.

Welcome to Extra Time.

In April 2017, heavyweight boxing

regained much of its credibility

with a pulsating fight

between Britain's Anthony Joshua

and Ukraine's Wladimir

Klitschko in London.

Both men were knocked down

as the fight went first one way,

and then the other, before

a decisive 11th round ended

in Joshua's victory.

A rematch would have

surely grossed as much -

if not more - than the first fight's

$30 million purse,

but more recently the defeated

Klitschko has announced his

retirement.

But comebacks often prove

irresistible in boxing.

So is Klitschko really

finished in the ring

and if so, what's next?

Wladimir Klitschko welcome to Extra

Time. Wembley stadium, the opponent

British Anthony Joshua the

heavyweight title on the line. Can

you recapture now the kind of

atmosphere that prevailed in the

stadium?

It was my first time being

back in London after the fight. --

this is. The first thing that

probably was kind of impressive to

me, my passport at Customs and I was

asked, well, we don't really need to

look at your passport, can we shake

your hand? A lot of people watched

it. Millions around the world. It

was a very important night in the

life of AJ and myself. We were

dedicated to the sport and our

performance. I was absolutely

obsessed to become third time world

champion and I did everything to

make that happen. I really had a

good position.

He did have an

opportunity, specifically toward the

end of the fifth, you had him on the

floor after years of being flawed.

You must have thought victory was in

reach. He said afterwards that you

rose to your feet after being

knocked down like The Terminator. He

saw in you still the ambition, the

determination.

On both sides. He

probably didn't think I would get up

and I didn't think he was going to

get up but, certainly, Joshua was

born as a champion that night, even

if the result was not what I was

expecting and I would have ended it

in a different way, I mean, I could

change the end result now, I

wouldn't because even if I lost, I

wanted so much.

That is an

extraordinary thing to say. Why do

you say such a thing? I understand

the mutual respect but still to say

that it was better that you lost

that one is an amazing thing.

It

would have been great for my ego to

wind but another side is being

involved in championship fights and

winning a lot but to experience -

which I did not really understand

that night directly - but to

experience winning so much by

losing, even I feel...

The crowd at

Wembley did appreciate you. You were

applauded. You are held in great

affection in Britain and are suppose

part of that is the fact that that

particular fight did ring a kind of

respectability back to the

heavyweight division, the absence of

trash talking, the mutual respect,

and the fact that it was the most

extraordinarily competitive fight.

I

will turn around and ask you, what

did you think I did for the

heavyweight division?

You provided

drama, comeback.

It is hard to judge

myself. It can do much better. You

as a journalist or they as fans

probably can describe it better.

What some people like about it was

that it was a complete departure

from what you had previously been

criticised for, jab and grab Dick in

boxing and this suddenly was a

really open fight in which, frankly,

either side could have won.

It is

going to be... It does not matter

what you do you are going to get

criticised.

Yes, did that criticism

hurt you?

It helped me, it pieced me

off. Each time that make because it

was unfair? Before that, it 11- 12

years ago, when I lost almost two

fights in a row against Brewster and

Anderson, I was written off, I was

the one that was a loser from both.

Even if I was OK before, suddenly I

was not OK any more and I was

tremendously criticised, terribly

criticised, I'm sorry. It was giving

me a lot of wind in the sales and I

was so pumped up because I was not

belonging where I was and so I

changed everything, I team, my

schedule, my attitude to work out,

are just dedicated my sport...

It

was a kind of motivation?

And taking

it as a compliment. Criticism gives

me energy. Something that I want to

prove is different.

Do not want to

take you back to a necessarily

totally dark place but the 11th

round when you were on the canvas

three times, what is it like then

from a physical and mental level to

be on the end of such a ferocious

onslaught? Few viewers to this

programme would have experienced

that.

Well, I do not want to discuss

about how I felt because, when you

our dedicated to the cause and you

are not getting that, are you happy

about it? No, you are not. You just

observe that an you are taking it as

it is and I have learnt in the

past...

How'd you take the physical

pain?

There is no physical pain to

the fight. Even if you feel physical

pain, that's the fear leaving your

body.

That is how you deal with it

effectively?

Yes it is the fear

leaving my body. It takes a lot of

different experiences that I have

collected... Anyway, the 11th round,

and get a comeback to what I was

telling you, as a fighter, you are

so emotionally attached to the goal

of winning the fight and if it is

not happening, it was insane. Of

course, I was emotionally upset but

then, suddenly, things turned around

and... ISIL a lot of my good points

because it now I was on the other

side. Suddenly I understood the

circle of life. --I saw. I have seen

my family members passing away, my

family members being born, it is the

circle of light and at some point,

even if you are experienced and you

know you can handle it, you can do

it, you are experienced, it tells

you you have everything under

control and then you understand, it

is probably the time you have to

pass the torch and I was so

fortunate that I passed the torch to

Anthony Joshua.

The circle of life,

this is deeply philosophical was

make it is deeply realistic and the

truth.

It is what it is. I do not

complain about it. Of course, my ego

is like wrinkled because they did

not achieve what I wanted but I have

achieved so much by losing.

Let's

talk about your retirement.

Why, why did you decide to retire?

Because it was under my terms.

It was perfect timing and you only

can and could understand it only

when the time is going to pass.

Right at the moment,

when I was making these decisions,

it was the most difficult decision

in my life, I didn't know what kind

of impact it is going to have

on my life, on myself,

on my ego and everything else,

but today, after a couple more

months passed, I would say

that it was the right decision.

Are you absolutely

ruling out a comeback?

Absolutely no chance of coming back?

Listen...

Because boxing is full

of people that have said...

Never say never, right?

Never say never.

And... (CROSSTALK).

So there's some doubt in your mind?

No, no.

Like, right now, I'm

speaking of right now,

I'm totally happy

where I am and what I am.

But right now it's November

2017, and in January,

February, 2018, you

could change your mind.

That's right and I am 41 and maybe,

George Foreman made and he was

45, maybe I'll wake up

in a few years and say,

I've still got it and I

feel like coming back.

But, honestly speaking,

I wish to myself that

I will never come back.

I wish.

So I don't know...

I don't know what should happen

that I come back

but I don't know.

I have been there, I've done

that, I have seen it.

Have you given all that

you have to give to boxing?

As a fighter, the answer

is positive, yes, I gave it all.

It is not just the money is that

brings boxes back, not having a

purpose to their daily routine. Have

you done that?

I have tremendous

replacement. I am very happy. Just

ten days, I believe, after Wembley,

I was standing at an event, S 80

event, an annual convention. And

there were 20,000 people and are

represented together with one of

those CEO is for innovation and we

were talking about synergy and

challenge management. Challenge

management is something that I have

created as a method. It is

intellectual property in this case

and I am having it together as a

study course, a certified study

course. Self-management et cetera.

We are going third year and we have

built the centre of confidence and I

was standing there and performing

something that I was talking about

it and performing not with my fists.

It was awesome. I was just thinking,

well, I am actually having my arena

and my fight to announce these and

it was exciting. I had a general and

in my blood but I did not wear

gloves.

So this is replacing boxing

but I wanted to talk to about

challenge management. It is set in a

rather elevated language, it deals

with dealing with challenges in

corporate or personal arena

challenge changes...

It is not

rocket science. The world is

changing. If you just think about

ten years ago, you took a list of

the top ten best performer companies

and capitalisation of those

companies that oil, gas, steel, coal

companies. Any trading company but

now that you have IT companies. A

trillion for Apple, you have

Microsoft...

Klitschko

boxer bring to business?

Is this is

everything. Your job is a business

as well. We are getting paid for it.

We are enjoying it, what you want to

do out of your life and that is the

main goal. Everything else is a

production of your activity,

financial production, finances this

case. So I'm very curious man. I

have always been and I'm enjoying

myself to get into the fields which

are unknown and people, we are in

the society thinking with

stereotypes. If you an actor, you

must be dumb. If you're a

journalist, you must be a liar. A

politician can be bought.

Stereotypes, that is what this

society thinks. And that I think

about my brother, speaking of him,

who would have thought that he would

become a politician and now the Mera

of the city of Kiev, the capital

city of the U -- of Ukraine.

It is

pretty amazing. If he could

summarise the goal, the aim of

challenge management in one

sentence, how would you do that?

Well, in one sentence, it is a study

over six months, actually, but to

make it short, it's not about

challenges... Sorry, not about

problems in life, it is challenges.

Attitudes you have as a human.

Digitalisation was created by human

for human to solve certain issues.

The most challenging thing in our

life, also in our interview, we are

under temperature, so the more

information we get, the more we

spread out and get it over to the

viewers, the better it is.

Let me

take you back to your operations as

a promoter and in marketing and that

is part of your world at the moment.

Are you interested for example in

promoting UFC, mixed martial arts

boxing? Would you be interested in

promoting another McGregor-

Mayweather style fight.

Would that

be your thing? I think about the

fight, it was great. Nobody thought

it was going to work but it did

work. It was also criticised. Of

course, it was. You get criticised

as soon as you move on but I think

it was OK. Listen, it was not like a

boxing match. Not the high level.

Just maybe a little idea of how to

handle your hands and be in the

ring. McGregor was super disciplined

in this fight and Mayweather did his

thing. I think it was exciting.

People have satisfaction, they paid

a lot of money to watch it on

pay-per-view. Eventually, these

events made a tremendous amount of

money. It was good. Genuinely for

the sport, it was good. It shows

that are UFC fighter can be

disciplined.

I was really impressed

with it. Would you be happy to

promote an event like that?

I would

not excluded. As I said, the world

is very fast. Innovations, even this

hybrid between MMA and boxing.

I am

wondering whether a contest like

that, with an MMA fighter...

Am I

going to involve myself?

Would you

get back into the ring?

My ambitions

are satisfied. When two men fight, a

third wins. It you know, I just, I

am just going to enjoy myself,

continue to enjoy myself as someone

that is more in the background than

the foreground. And you probably

want to get a direct answer, yes or

no. I do not see myself in the ring

as a fighter. If that is going to

change, listen, maybe in five years

I'm going to change my mind and

break a performance record. I don't

know, is going to be in five years.

Never say never. But also this

saying, if you are 50, if you think

you are 20, you have lost 30 years

of real life. As the now, I am

totally at peace with my decision

and being not involved directly as

an athlete in the ring.

When we met

before, we talked a little bit about

the alphabet soup of the various

world boxing organisations. That

would be something that you could

attach yourself to, the campaign to

get a unified world boxing

authority. Frankly, it's been in a

mess for decades.

I wish and have a

dream that boxing is going to get

more transparent, more open. There

is one important thing I want to

mention. Only one thing counts in

boxing. Fans and athletes.

Promoters, managers, broadcasters --

broadcasters, sanctioning bodies,

everyone has its own interest but

what are the interests of bands and

athletes? It is the court. Without

them, the sport cannot exist. I

think when everyone thinks about

themselves and they are tearing the

sport apart, what do the fans think

about it? Getting myself to the

sport and trying to achieve goals, I

did achieve something but I don't

have the security. My health

insurance or life insurance or the

chance to get any education. It's

not fair. The pension, it is not

there. Look at the National Football

League in the US. If you perform

well, you get the pension. As an

actor, you have actors green guilt.

It's a union that gives you certain

protection for the time when you're

not going to do well but he did

perform before. You dedicated

yourself to the industry. It's

something that boxing is missing. It

not fair. I think it's very

important to change it. I'd think

there is only one way to do it,

digitalisation. You had to

digitalise the sport. What does that

mean? Digitalisation helps to

prevent diseases, prevent

corruption, prevent bureaucracy,

make it more transparent. Give

security because at the end of the

day, speaking about finances, boxing

is the most financially lucrative

sport in world, period. And just to

have athletes struggling when they

dedicate their life and being thrown

literally on the street because they

started 14 as I did and they retire

at 30, or 41 like myself. It was

very important to think about it and

that's what I want to talk about in

my study course. Today, we box.

Tomorrow we do maybe, I don't know,

we're politicians. Tomorrow, we

become lawyers or entrepreneurs, you

name it.

Let me just conclude by

asking you a little bit about your

home country, Ukraine. You've

mentioned that Vitaly is the mayor

of here, he is a full-time

politician. Is anything you could

do, is there any role that you could

play as the spokesman of your

country in calming the political

scene there? How do you feel about

the current situation in Ukraine?

Constitutionally, Ukraine remains

difficult, because we have a

geopolitical and economic crisis.

Even though we handle it, we are

optimists. I am sure that

eventually, peace will come to the

country. The question is, when is it

going to happen? Every day, there

are people getting killed.

In the

east of the country.

So why are

you...? Because it's a circle of

light. We were talking about it in

the century before, Circle of life.

If we look in history, it's always

been like that and there will be

times for war and times for peace

and as soon as the weapons and the

ceasefire really will procure, the

economy will shoot like a rocket in

the sky. It's very sad to observe

and see that we have something

because Ukraine geopolitically and

geographically is in Europe, we have

a lot of challenges, we are young.

We have sort of democracy which

needs to be developed and done

better. We still had to fight

corruption. It is one of the

diseases, like cancer in the body,

it needs to be taken out. And you

know, one of the ways,

digitalisation, you can laugh about

it but look at this, Paradise

papers. Boom, some of your

countrymen are involved. That showed

up. Thanks to digitalisation. Things

are difficult. It's obvious, it's

more transparent and I think it's

one of the ways and I want to put an

accent on it one more time.

Wladimir

Klitschko, thank you so much for

joining us on Extra Time.

Thank you.