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Welcome to this edition of Extra Time from Ireland. We are at the | :00:00. | :00:19. | |
County Carlow base of champion trainer Willie Mullins, the man | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
whose dominance of the sport has reached seldom seen levels. He sent | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
out eight winners at last year's Cheltenham Festival, the Olympics of | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
jump racing. Although high-profile casualties have hit his hopes for | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
the 2016 edition he is set to field a formidable team. Stay tuned as we | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
endeavour to find out if he can improve on that impressive 2015 | :00:43. | :00:43. | |
tally. Willie Mullins, welcome to this | :00:44. | :01:14. | |
special edition of Extra Time from your stables here south of Dublin. | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
The 2016 Giazzon festival is almost here. Last year you won eight of the | :01:20. | :01:28. | |
27 races. -- Cheltenham. What would constitute a successful festival | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
this time? It would great to get aid. Last year was fantastic for us. | :01:33. | :01:41. | |
We have a big team -- eight. If we have championship races, that will | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
make it worthwhile. It is hard to know. Once it starts, if we can get | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
a winner on the first day it relaxes everyone and then hopefully after | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
that we will be lucky enough to get a couple more over the four days we | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
would be pleased. I have looked at your Star Wars is this money despite | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
the bad weather. Where do your biggest hopes like over the next | :02:02. | :02:12. | |
days -- star horses. I am match and Du Vin steps into that scenario. -- | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
lie. Putting your biggest hope on a novice chaser... He has done nothing | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
wrong in his career so far. He must be one of the best chances. What is | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
it about Du Vin that excites you? I think you have said this is | :02:34. | :02:35. | |
potentially the best horse you have had. Every time he works for us at | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
home, he works so well. When he goes to the racetrack he has done the | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
same. Looking at his size and scope, he is a huge horse, over 17 | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
hands, and yet he is like a horse that is about a hand smaller, a 16 | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
hand horse. He has great use of himself, considering how big he is. | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
Most people don't like buying the courses because they are too gangly | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
but he is a huge athlete. -- courses. He is able to carry his | :03:06. | :03:12. | |
frame so easily -- horses. He takes jumps as if they are not there. He | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
is just a natural. And he has huge ability. The Cheltenham Gold cup is | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
seen as the feature event, the blue ribbon of steeplechasing. This time | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
around it is one of the races to have eluded you but this time you | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
are going in with a strong hand. The three horses are Jack Adam, Don Poly | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
and one other. How optimistic are you that one of them can win this | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
for you? Jack Adam, as a six-year-old last year, came second, | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
beaten by a very good horse. He came back this year in the John Dawkins, | :03:47. | :03:53. | |
he put in a huge performance to win over two and a half miles. Looking | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
at that speed he showed, and we know he has the stamina to stay the trip, | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
that is a big plus for him going into the race. Don Poly has raced | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
twice at Cheltenham. He has won twice. He loves going up that hill. | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
I think the extra trip he will encounter in the three miles will be | :04:15. | :04:22. | |
right up his street. Vature has won twice at Cheltenham and has been | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
very impressive. Left-handed, up and down hills, undulating, I think it | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
suits him very well. So, his March form is always about a stone better | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
than his winter form, so going into the festival, if he can reproduce | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
what he has done over the last few years, that put him in with a | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
winning chance. Looking at the Cheltenham Festival as a whole, it | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
has evolved quite a bit in the last 20 or 30 years in your period as a | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
racehorse trainer. How much importance to you place on these | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
four days? Does it define your season essentially? It is great to | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
have an event like chop them for national racing. It puts it right up | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
there for this week, the whole year, between press, radio, newspaper, all | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
of the social media. It gets top billing. It is very, very important. | :05:08. | :05:17. | |
It is important for us because we can use it as a PR tool to get | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
people interested in having a horse and maybe having a horse good enough | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
to go to chop them, and having a successful Cheltenham is very | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
important -- Cheltenham. There are other things in racing, like the | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
championship, when big races at home, and... At it is right up | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
there. It has to be. Many people mightn't be a way but you rode | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
winners as well at Cheltenham, including as a jockey. We will leave | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
that bind. I lucky enough to have ridden two national hunt race | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
winners. -- behind. And tell us what that feeling is like write into the | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
winners division at Cheltenham, particularly on a horse who was an | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
Irish banker. That is right. It was tremendous. For any jockey riding a | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
winner at Cheltenham, going up the straight, if you are like the enough | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
and you are winning easy enough to enjoy it, -- lucky enough. My tongue | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
was hanging out from exhaustion trying to ride him. Once you pull up | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
and the roar is starting in the stands, and then the walk back | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
down... Not the tunnel but the passageway where the horses walk | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
back down and around and into the parade ring, you just don't want it | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
to end. It's a fantastic feeling. I envy jockeys nowadays who are lucky | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
enough to experience that. We touched on your family involvement | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
in racing there. It is a great pedigree you have. Your father was a | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
successful trainer for 50 years plus. Obviously your son Patrick is | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
a champion amateur rider. Was raising a certainty from day one for | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
you? -- racing. I don't know. I always like horses. I tried other | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
things. I had no interest. I didn't really like going to school. I think | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
horses probably were the place I was going to end up. So, you know, a | :07:16. | :07:24. | |
sort of... People were telling me... It always came back to | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
horses. Tell us about the transition from jockey to trainer. Was it | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
pretty seamless? Did you always feel a career in the training ranks was | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
for you? Yes. Once I decided racing was it rather than going into | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
another branch of horses, and I wasn't sure whether I would enjoy | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
it, but it is a natural progression, and then once I got | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
into training, you know, I didn't think there was anything going to be | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
as good as riding horses, but actually that trainer winner at | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
Cheltenham especially gives you huge satisfaction. Much more than I had | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
anticipated. Tell us about the early days. I heard a story that perhaps | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
you can put more flesh on the bones of when you got your trainer's | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
licence. Was there a club inspection when you needed six horses. I went | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
for a dual license. You had to have four forces. I had six to start. -- | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
horses. I think I had for riding out and I needed to Matt Moore and one | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
was a broodmare down the field and one mightn't have just been alive at | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
the time but we still have the passport. So, the day that | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
inspection was, obviously they were away galloping someone else, but | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
everyone has to start somewhere and I am sure the inspector, Stephen | :08:49. | :08:57. | |
Quirke, who was a train himself, he knows, you know, people have to get | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
started, and maybe you overlook certain things like our schooling | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
grounds. And I said to Stephen, we are way down over that field and | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
looking at your shoes, I'm not sure we will go down the course, looking | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
down there. And Stephen looked at me, winked and said, that's fine, | :09:14. | :09:24. | |
Willie. So, we got on from there and, you know, everyone needs to | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
start from somewhere and we were lucky enough to get our few winners | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
in the first year and it progressed from there. The obvious question is, | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
from those humble beginnings, just how have you managed to build your | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
current strength of forces to what it is today at about 150 in training | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
at a given time? Yes. A lot of disappointment. A lot of money lost. | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
At that time you put your own money in. You know, we least horses, we | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
bought cheap horses, we sold them on. Were there times when you | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
thought maybe you were doing the wrong thing going into this? No. It | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
wasn't like that. I always look forward. It was more work. It was | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
what I was going to do. I couldn't contemplate not doing it and going | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
working somewhere else. It never entered my head and I thought, maybe | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
that's... That's part of it, that you actually... I was just looking | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
forward... You know, would you be able to be champion trainer, could | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
you be good enough trainer to have you know maybe 30 or 40 horses and | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
that's what we were looking at that time. That was probably the biggest | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
hunt trainer in Ireland. One or two hunt trainers might have had more. | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
You know, so, I always look at it like this was going to work. | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
Training horses, that's the way... It was just getting the right | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
horses, getting the right... You know it always looked a lot simpler | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
than it worked out. You probably just don't realise the | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
disappointment. When you buy horses, they are bad and you've got to go | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
out and borrow more money. It is tough. But it's what I was brought | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
up with, so I knew where to turn, where to go if things went wrong | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
like they do all the time. We've got an insight into the running of a | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
massive operation like this this morning. Lots and lots of staff | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
obviously. How do you run the yard? Are you a disciplinarian or do you | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
like to see things running smoothly without too much intervention from | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
yourself? I got a good piece of advice early on in my career. You | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
should run your business on the 3D principle, decide, delegate and | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
disappear. And I tend to do that. I like to be there in the mornings on | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
the gallop, I like to be there in the afternoon, I like to let my | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
headman and girls get on with the job. And I try not to interfere with | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
it. It gets done, probably not the way I want it done, but they do it | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
their way and they get over it and then I go around at night time just | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
having a look at the things, but... Basically, I have good people, I | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
give them free rein to work away and look after their own staff. And it | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
is... When you give people responsibility, it is tremendous how | :12:25. | :12:26. | |
they grow and they enjoy the responsibility. That works for me. | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
How exactly do you go about acquiring the calibre of staff you | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
seem to have here? Is it a chicken and egg scenario? Are people keen to | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
come here because of the status? That has been the bonus over the | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
last few years, yes. People want to work here. And you can get quality | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
people. But before that... You go back to the Celtic Tiger times and I | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
couldn't get anyone to work in the stable yard because there was so | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
much money to be made doing other jobs, you know, in the building | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
industry or in catering, you know, a lot of indoor jobs. It is a tough | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
life here. I just fell this morning riding out on a Monday morning. And | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
before everyone came here, our guys had been, first lot, you know, hail, | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
rain or snow they are here. They know that is the life. And now... | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
That's just the sort of ethos here that... The way we do it. People | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
come in, they learn and they pick it up. If we see people deviating from | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
that, it had better be very good, what they are trying to do, instead | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
of what we do. And we look at it and we will see, and then decide, no, | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
maybe leave that and do it our way, or maybe we will take on board what | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
you are saying. I think that Alaba staff it is fair to say expense to | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
your team of jockeys. Your number one is a household name, Ruby Walsh, | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
the most successful jockey at children of all time, considered one | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
of the best is not the best of all time over jumps. Give us an insight | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
into your relationship on him that met with him on a day-to-day basis. | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
However what is he? His experience of all tracks now in England a huge | :14:10. | :14:10. | |
benefit. How he knows all the opposition in | :14:11. | :14:25. | |
different races... When we talk about riding in a race with hurdles, | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
Ruby will know it inside out and know how it will pan out. We will go | :14:34. | :14:41. | |
through the merits of our horse and what might happen that would not | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
suit him, and we will try and... Have a plan to use the merits of the | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
horse to the best possible advantage. His knowledge means that | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
he is actually going to do it. He will tell me what he thinks, and | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
unless I think something totally different, we will probably do what | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
he says. All the other jockeys riding with him... And the staff, | :15:11. | :15:19. | |
riding with him every day, they pick up on that and the fact that he | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
knows all of that. They try and copy that, they look at everything around | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
them. It gives them confidence that they are able to learn from him just | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
walking around. When they ride in races, it gives them confidence. | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
What about the horses themselves? You have to be able to train them to | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
the best possible ability? What about the kind of forces we have | :15:50. | :15:57. | |
seen on the programme this morning? We have scouts, agents. We have to | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
very good agents. We have one in Ireland and one in France. They | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
spend all their time trying to source these horses. People with | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
those horses know they are like people. People used to ring me, but | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
I didn't have the time to do it. So they get it done, and when they have | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
picked out my sources, we discuss it and then we try and find a client. | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
Or, clients come to us and say that they want a horse. But those horses | :16:32. | :16:40. | |
are not around... You can't go in and buy them. I have a big budget. | :16:41. | :16:50. | |
We will come back within 24 hours with a horse. But sometimes you can | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
wait for months and months for the right horse. The French market has | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
become quite important? Are they perhaps more minded to sell their | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
horses? We find when we go to buy in France, they have a price standard. | :17:09. | :17:18. | |
With Irish forces, they are racing people. They want to race their | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
horses. It is hard to buy a top-class horse in Ireland. They can | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
be bought privately right after a race, or else go to a sale. There | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
are quite a few sales that have sprung up in the last few years. It | :17:38. | :17:46. | |
is a different market. I'm sure you've heard it said that one | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
person's dominance is not necessarily good for the sport. How | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
do you feel when people say that? Is it a compliment? I suppose it is. We | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
can do nothing, only enjoy it at the moment. The nature of sport and | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
life, it is psychical. We are at the top at the moment, we may not be in | :18:08. | :18:21. | |
a few is' time. How much do you enjoy it on a day to day basis? I | :18:22. | :18:33. | |
pace myself. -- cyclical. I go to the bar and look at the talent, and | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
we wonder... Ourselves and our staff, we look at what would be in | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
each current, and you think any trainer would love to have that. I | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
said to my son, don't think this is normal. This is not normal. This is | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
extraordinary. We are lucky enough to be in this position, but I don't | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
know how long we can keep it going for. How far into the future do you | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
look? Do you see yourself doing this for a long time to come? Yes. People | :19:09. | :19:17. | |
look at retiring when they reach a certain age, I never envisaged that. | :19:18. | :19:27. | |
It's's what I do, what I enjoy. It is one of those jobs in sport where | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
you are able to have a longer career, not like an athlete like a | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
footballer? Some trainers get better as they get older. Some people think | :19:38. | :19:45. | |
that the experience you get from training helps you as you get older. | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
You probably get more confident, too. The issue of doping is becoming | :19:53. | :20:02. | |
quite high profile. How much of a threat to think it is to the sport | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
at the moment? Do you think it is adequately policed? I think they are | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
investing a lot of money in it. It is adequately policed, we have had | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
very few cases. The few we have had have been dealt with. However, we | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
have spent more money to try and keep up with the different types of | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
stuff that are supposed to be used... I don't know. I think what | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
has gone on in the last few years has been dealt with. There are two | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
different kinds of doping. When I hear of a horse being doped, I | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
assume it is to go slow. We always worry about that, especially coming | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
up to a big festival. We tell the staff to be on the lookout for | :20:55. | :21:02. | |
strange people around. I know that they think it's a bit crazy. I | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
remember going back to the 1980s, there was a doping gang around | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
England and Ireland. We didn't suspect at that time, but now we | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
would know what to look for. It makes it a bit harder. Every year, | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
there is some wiseguy who would think, we will try and do that and | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
gain an edge. Then there is doping to make horses go faster, be | :21:29. | :21:37. | |
stronger and such. You are on the lookout for people using steroids | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
and things like that. I think it is the same in every sport. I think we | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
have as good a handle on it in racing as any other sport. In recent | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
years, it seems you have been keen to campaign your horses | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
internationally? You were very close to winning the Melbourne Cup. How | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
much do you enjoy that aspect of the sport? Are you keen to add the | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
Melbourne Cup to your CV? Absently. Dumping can transfer over to the | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
flight. Sometimes we take some of the fight to go jumping, sometimes | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
the other way around. If we are lucky enough to win the Melbourne | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
Cup or to compete in those types of races... You can go to Hong Kong or | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
Japan as well. You have had success in Japan? Yes, I have. The prize | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
money is huge in those kinds of events. Irish people should... We | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
are good to travel, generally. I am sure we could, people could do more. | :22:50. | :22:58. | |
Returning to the theme of the Cheltenham Festival, how much do you | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
change things in the run-up to that every year? You have said in the | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
past that training courses is about fuel for you, does that manifest | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
itself at this time of year? I think so. We try to keep a routine. | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
Getting back to what you said about changing for the festival, we try to | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
look at what we think went wrong in the previous year and think about | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
how we can get past it this year. If I was able to grant you one wish for | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
Cheltenham this year? What would it be? I think a nice first day to get | :23:32. | :23:41. | |
on the board. When the first one goes in, it is like someone letting | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
the air out of the tyres. A great relief. I think it settles everyone | :23:46. | :23:54. | |
down. If you are going into the second or third day looking for a | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
winner, we would be hair out at that stage. Good luck at the Cheltenham | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
Festival and thank you very much for joining us. | :24:04. | :24:27. | |
Given the amount of rain which many of us have seen | :24:28. | :24:31. |