Episode 5 Late Kick Off East

Poor facilities, too expensive, and then there's the parents. Just what

can we do about the state of grass-roots football?

Tonight, the ugly truth about our beautiful game, the huge threat to

football at grass-roots level. Grass-roots football's in massive

danger of folding in five to ten years. There's massive, massive, big

problems out there. We've a special report on the threat to the game and

what's being done to tackle the crisis. Also on the programme,

comedy goals, but no laughing matter for Cobblers fans. Just six games

and counting to save their Football League lives. And, we reflect on an

historic day for Peterborough United. Could their cup final

victory at Wembley prove the springboard for promotion?

Hello, good evening. Yes, another packed programme tonight, and as

always, Paul McVeigh will cast an analytical eye over our teams. And

we welcome Shaun Turner, the Chief Executive of Norfolk's County FA,

with plenty of insight into the grass-roots debate which is coming

later in the programme. But we start tonight with a moment to savour for

Peterborough United fans, celebrating their first cup final

victory at Wembley, the Football League Trophy against Chesterfield.

Jonathan Park was there as well, and he joined 25,000 happy fans on an

historic day for Posh. In days like today, the formbook

goes out the window, so the fact that we're inconsistent is

completely irrelevant today. It's one day, it's a 90-minute season for

us. We're going to batter Chesterfield all over the place.

League Two? They might as well be Conference today. It's Mothers' Day

today, isn't it? It is Mothers' Day. What a treat, what better place to

be? And look at the weather. It's gorgeous. No matter what level you

play at, your dream is as a young boy, you want to be at Wembley, in

any capacity. The Johnstone's Paint Trophy might be unfashionable, but

for 35,000 Peterborough and Chesterfield fans, it was well worth

the journey. Posh, from League One, started the clear favourites against

the Spireites, from the league below. Two former Wolves team-mates,

hungry for success. Ferguson's team tore out of the blocks, and got the

dream start every Posh fan wanted. And then the rebound turned in, and

Posh take the lead. Into the box, chance to cross. It's towards that

back post, oh, and it's over the bar. Horrible miss by Morsy. Posh

prepare to take this corner from the right, in towards Brisley, with the

header. 2-0, Posh! Brisley rises highest and heads Posh into a

two-goal lead. Morsy might go all the way. It's on

his left foot now. Gets the ball over, and Chesterfield pull one

back. Morsy made it. Little flare-up there. Oh, Joe Newell's been sent

off. It's a red card for Newell. Newell and Morsy clashed. He goes

down. Penalty, surely. It is. Assombalonga scores. He has it in

his hands, and he lifts the Football League Trophy. Peterborough United,

2014 champions, their first national cup competition victory. They are

loving it. No matter what happens now in our

careers, no-one's going to take this away from us. It's done, set in

stone, and you're right, there's far better players and managers than

myself and my players who are never going to get the chance of coming

here. It is the FA Cup for the two lower leagues, and we took it as

serious as anything else. How was it for you? Brilliant. As long as we

can kick on now and go into the play-off, come back here in a

fortnight, or three weeks, whatever it is, brilliant. One great thing,

we've never lost at Wembley. Back here again at the end of May? Yeah,

hopefully, that'd be the big one. I think we come back here in the

play-offs, we go 25,000 here, for sure, so that's very exciting. It's

there. I'd love for most of them to come on Wednesday night. It's only

for a fiver if you have a ticket from here, come. But we'll fight

that battle. The more success and the more trophies, the more days

like this we can do, the fans will come.

You can't get enough of it, can you? Jonathan Park there reporting. Let's

hope that proves the catalyst for promotion at London Road. Plenty

more action still to come, but next, our special report into the state of

the grass-roots game here in the UK. The number of people playing is

dropping at an alarming rate. So much so that Sport England has just

announced it's cutting the level of funding it provides. We'll discuss

the picture here in the East shortly with Paul and with Shaun. But first,

Kevin Kilbane on the crisis facing grass-roots football.

Unbelievably, football is no longer the top participant sport in this

country. More people nowadays prefer to run, swim or cycle.

Player numbers are in decline, and in many places, facilities are

shocking. Junior football still has the ongoing issue of overaggressive

parents, and many still question the way we coach our kids. Make no

mistake, the grass-roots game is in big trouble. Enjoy that game, boys?

Yeah. Good. Played very well. Kenny Saunders is the manager of Woolton

FC, which has 62 junior teams. He's launched a campaign to save

grass-roots football. Grass-roots football's in massive danger of

folding within the next five or ten years. There's massive, massive, big

problems out there. Right from funding to grass-roots coaching to

the parents, respect campaigns, there's many, many issues out there

at the moment. Although Woolton have addressed the issue of pushy parents

on the touchline, not everybody else has. That's a yellow card, ref! Card

him! He's an animal, give him a yellow card! You're an animal! He

deserves a card! We're only human beings, same as

anybody else. It's very hard for young referees coming through today,

the abuse they get off the line, it's not worth carrying on. We get a

few of them who are hot-headed on the pitch, same as the parents on

the line. Ellis Cashmore is a professor of culture, media and

sport. There's almost a shame inflicted on young people, you see

their parents berating them, chastising them, you shouldn't have

done this, or, here are the reasons why you lost. A postmortem on every

game. Pete Ackerley is the FA's top man in

charge of development. Constantly shouting instruction is

counterproductive. We do want that noise and support, we want that to

be there. A parent wouldn't shout at their child during a piano lesson,

black key, white key, black key, white key. So what we're trying to

work out is a right level of support for those young people. Noisy

parents are simply adding to the pressures we already heap on

youngsters. Children should be allowed to develop their skills in a

competition-free environment, where they can experiment, where they can

be creative, where they can express themselves. All the time enjoying

themselves while they acquire new skills. Then we'll produce better

rounded players, freed of the unnecessary pressures of

competition. Another key issue is the way we coach our kids. When I

was a lad, we had the crazy situation where we were asked to

play on full-sized pitches. No wonder we have a long-ball culture.

And there's always been an issue about the standard of coaching. But

the FA insist that's all changing. What we're doing now is providing

the right level of coaching for the right coach in the right environment

to make sure the coaching they receive is the right thing for that

young player's development. Coaching badges, it's extreme, the money

they're charging grass-roots volunteers. They're being priced

out. We need to have better coaches, we need more coaches, more qualified

coaches. It's a ten-year journey, and I believe we're well on the way

to delivering a world-class coaching system, and I feel within ten years

we'll be seeing the fruits of that labour. While the culture of the

grass-roots game may be changing, there is still one huge cloud on the

horizon. Funding. With council cutbacks and even Sport England

cutting its financial support, amateur clubs need to know who's

going to help them survive. We've got to get the Premier League, the

Football League, we've got to get governments, we've got to get

councils, everyone who's responsible for grass-roots football and can

improve grass-roots football, we need them round the table, and we

need them now. So, what's the picture in this

region? In Norfolk, the number of teams has fallen by 5% compared with

the last season. In Suffolk, it's fallen by 10% in three seasons. In

Cambridgeshire, men's football is also slightly declining, but the

number of female teams has increased, and disabled

participation is on the rise. Paul McVeigh is joined in the studio

tonight by Shaun Turner from the Norfolk County FA. Shaun, your

numbers are down. What is the reality, though, with grass-roots

football? Is it really as bad as everyone says it is? I think there

are dangers in the 11-a-side traditional adult game, we are

seeing a decline this season, but actually, youth football across the

country, and especially in Norfolk, is actually growing. So, there are

some issues that need to be addressed. But actually, it's the

11-a-side game where we're now struggling. That's what I was going

to ask. What is the problem? You're saying the youngsters are

flourishing, but why are the adults struggling to keep on playing? It is

a different culture now, a different lifestyle, people have to work a lot

longer, so spare time is not necessarily available, like when

shots were not open on Sundays, football is on six or seven nights a

week, so there are numerous things that are affecting it in terms of

the traditional game, which we are concerned about. A lot of people are

talking about the quality of facilities, are they that bad? Are

we edit soft? We have been spoiled rotten, ten or 20 years ago, people

played on pitches in all weathers. Yes, but you could also leave your

back door unlocked! We are in a different world now. Councils are

very wary of injuries and lawsuits and so on, it is a different

culture. These new pictures will play it a difficult part in the

future, but they will not be the all and end all. We are trying to work

with our local authorities to see if we can get some improved standards

of pitches. We are trying to work with parish councils, and with

private providers, to increase the standards, but it will not be a

short-term fix in terms of facilities, due to the numbers.

Women's football, nobody is talking about it, but their numbers are

shooting up. Whenever you see the professional women's football, and

all of the other age groups, and at and about, you see girls playing

football. It is a really big boost. If the women's is going well, it is

always going to be give and take. There is millions going in, if we

talk about the football foundation, in this region alone, 1500 projects

across the East over the past decade, billions of pounds. It is a

huge amount when you spread it across one region, and crowds of

over ?50 million. That is the positive element of the story that

people do not say. Definitely. There are a lot of positives, this shows

the vast numbers of facilities we have to deal with, and it is a

numbers game. It is not as bleak as people make out, but there is a lot

more that can be done. We need better facilities in 2014. Our fans

Forum had some interesting points to make about this, here is their take

on what should be done to support the local game.

It seems to be dying, you hear of Leeds collapsing, people playing on

these nice pitches, if that dies, where will the new players come

from? I have played football abroad, in France, Belgium Holland,

and the facilities there are so much better than they are here. You go to

a nice ground, a clubhouse, you turn up expecting to lose heavily, and

you give them a good game, because they are at your level, but their

authorities pay for those facilities, and there is coaching as

well. It shows in product. Those countries have advanced

significantly. One of the things we need to consider, because there are

so many distractions for kids, so many other things they could be

doing, they do not want to commit, maybe we need to start getting some

of these coaches into schools and picking kids up from there. It seems

that that is the only place where kids have a dedicated time to play

football, but often they are taught by a PE teacher, who may have never

played football themselves, that alone coached. I must confess, I

thought this was going to all take pace with the advent of St George's

Park and all things good we've heard about it. Certainly, the amount of

money that's gone into St George's Park, I thought it was going to be

cascaded out so that regionally, locally, areas were going to be

improved by that, by the advent of coaching. Or, certainly, coaches for

the coaches and things like that. But, as yet, we've yet to see

anything of that. Well, Shaun, is it as bad as

everyone says it is? The lads there, they are worried that, frankly, our

facilities aren't anywhere near as good as the ones in Europe. I think

some of them aren't. I think that is a matter of fact. Again, we are

doing an incredible amount of work to try to improve the facilities at

a time when money is tight. So, we have the football foundation, but we

need partnership funding. And when there is cuts to public sector

funding and local authorities and private sector, it's very difficult

to get them one over the finish line. Is that the problem? It's not

statutory. It's almost like they can put it in through a discretionary

fund. The councils can actually put the money out. And that is not

happening. So, the whole infrastructure of football and the

grassroots, does that need to be modernised? Yeah, I think we always

struggle because we work with the volunteer sector. And when you work

with volunteers, you have to be respectful and careful at the same

time. But we need to modernise. We need to come into 2014 and embrace

technology, which the Football Association are trying to do. But

that, coupled with the recession we've gone through, there are so

many plates to try to spin. So, if there is one specific problem which

you want to try to tackle now, what is it? In terms of the 11-a-side

game, it is getting better facilities for people. So, the role

of parents we hear as well, the role of parents in youth football, is

that a problem, too? It's a problem in youth football because they are

living the dream through their children. And the FA Youth Review

which has taken place to try and make games at lower age groups

development will hopefully help that and that'll allow the kids to play

and be competitive and win games. But then move on to the following

week and not worry about league tables at such a young age, at

seven, eight, or nine. Have you ever had to ban any parents from coming

to games in Norfolk? We have had to... We have had to raise relevant

charges to certain unruly, excitable parents, shall we say. Very

diplomatic. Because that does happen. Because football is such a

passionate game. We know that. It is not, like Pete said, about playing

the piano. It's slightly different. For those who are worried about the

future, we've heard in the report that grassroots football will be

dead in a few years. Is that really going to be the case? No! No,

definitely not. There's always going to be the diehards that want to play

the game, from youth to adult. It might look a different game in ten

years time. You know, 11-a-side football might not be the main game

in the adult sector. It might be five-a-side, it might be

recreational football. But it won't die. Not a chance. Shaun, thanks

very much. Keep up the good work in Norfolk, too. What do you think,

then, of what you've heard this evening? Does it strike a chord with

your own club and experience? Are things that bad? If so, what do you

think the solution is? Get in touch, let us know via Twitter, or our

Facebook page. We will take on board all your comments and your stories

and share them next week. OK, lots more to come in the programme this

evening with deepening relegation problems, but it is not all doom and

gloom. Far from it. Ipswich Town's fighting spirit reaps rewards to

maintain their Premier League promotion push. It is an equaliser

for Ipswich Town! It is no more than they deserve.

Well, having kicked off with the grassroots, we thought we'd work our

way up the divisions this week, starting with League Two. And you

will recall our special feature on Northampton town's fight to stay in

the Football League a couple of weeks ago. Well, Saturday's 3-0

defeat to Bury means things are looking increasingly desperate for

the Cobblers. Paul, six games left. Is it as much of a mental thing now

than a practical one for the side? I think it could be, especially

because the Cobblers were only four points off Bury before this game.

And, obviously, losing 3-0, now seven points behind them. So, that

is the problem. He was so close, and getting themselves back into the

game. This is the kind of luck you get when you're down in the bottom

of the league. A deflection. And in over the top of the goalkeeper. And

if you think that's bad, we will see something later on. But this is the

kind of thing where, you get a deflection, and here, the keeper, he

saved that. I used to play with him at Burnley. This is the one that

sums it up. That is a terrible backpass. But you can't... There is

no excuse. I am almost hiding behind the sofa whenever I see that. What

on earth was going through the player's mind? Well, first of all,

it's a bad backpass. He was trying to clear it, it's one of those ones

where you just think, you just want the ground to open up and swallow

you. So, one bad game. How serious an impact do you think that will

have? Well, I think because... They are only a couple of points off the

bottom, they still have a chance of getting out. They are only three

points of getting off Wigan and Portsmouth. And, of course, they

have got them in the next few weeks coming up. But it is tough. It is

really, really tough to try and get themselves out of the bottom two. At

the top end of the table, it's been a good week for Southend.

Back-to-back victories and right back in the play-off mix. Paul, what

do you think has changed for Phil Brown's side? Let's be honest,

February and March were pretty miserable months. Well, I think

they've had such a long run without scoring a goal... Sorry, without

winning a game can and because they did sign Jamar Loza on loan, and

they've also signed Jacob Murphy on loan from Norwich. So that is a

terrific two signs from two exciting young players. When you see this,

another header, off the crossbar, you think, is it too much? They had

one won last Monday. Are they going to get another, with back-to-back

wins? Well, you see Jacob Murphy, signed on loan. Lovely ball across,

a little bit of luck, and can you believe that is his first goal since

last October? So, whenever you get that, 13 games without winning, and

then winning two games in a row. Phil Brown has done so well to keep

his team going. And keeping the momentum going. And he's been using

loaning like a lot of the managers have, extremely cannily. That is one

way that is going to propel them. The next few weeks, critical for

him. He's got to try to keep that squad fresh and with as much impetus

as possible. Well, I think the momentum now,

because they weren't in the play-offs for so long, and they've

had two wins, they've got themselves back in, I don't think they're going

to catch Burton who are six points above them. But with York city's old

manager Nigel Worthington sitting there, he has had a very good run up

there with Oxford as well, so there are three teams on 59, the last six

games is absolutely crucial. Let's hear from the gaffer, Phil Brown.

He's got a clear message to his players and the Us' fans. Quite a

way to go. We've got six games, probably another four or five weeks

to play. We've got to make sure that that four or five weeks turns into

seven or eight weeks. And come 26th May, we are at the right place at

the right time. To League One where, again, it is edge of your seats

time. It is set to stay that way right until the end of the season.

Let's go to the Lamax. Stevenage manager Graham Westley

remains upbeat despite seeing his team slip to the bottom of League

Two after being held to a draw against Port Vale who took the lead

through Tom Pope. Boro hit back through substitute Peter Hartley on

the end of Luke Freeman's free kick. 1-1, five without a win now, but

Westley says battling point could be priceless come the end of the

season. Stevenage dropping to the foot of the table in part because of

Colchester's defeat at Notts County. The Us falling behind after just

five minutes. Roland Murray, the scorer. Always fine margins when

you're struggling, of course, and Colchester could do with the

footballing gods to start smiling on them sometime soon. Certainly on

this evidence. Strength, determination, and no little skill

from Dominic Rose setting up Freddie Sears, hitting the post. To make

matters worse, County grabbed a second in first half injury time.

All very close at the foot of League One. Colchester need that change in

fortune and they need it soon. Well, this is how the bottom of

League One looks. Grim reading for fans of Stevenage and Colchester.

Paul, it doesn't matter what Colchester try and do, they are not

getting any luck at the moment, are they?

No, they're not. They have no wins in three. They can see themselves

slowly falling down to that bottom four. Then, of course, when you see

Notts County, getting themselves back out of it, who were rock bottom

a few weeks ago. And now Stevenage have taken their place. The only

thing for Stevenage, they do have that game in hand. So if they win

that game in hand, it does take them back up over that 40 point mark. So,

it is, of course, it is going to be very difficult for them. And key

games, of course, Boro hosting leaders Wolves. Colchester, they

travel to Peterborough. And those matches aside, I wonder if there is

anything in agreement that these two sides have? They are both at the

bottom, are they playing in a certain style which means they are

there, or is that luck of results? I think that it's got to come down to

the strikeforce and scoring the goals. When you see the action and

the footage, there is occasionally, it'll hit the bar, hit the post, a

bit unlucky. But whenever you see Peterborough and Colchester, that

is... That is such a massive game after winning the JPT on Sunday. And

then, of course, Colchester United going down the other end. For me, I

can see Peterborough are going to be in a good run of form. They've got

to get back on the horse, Posh. Massive game for them. How easy is

it to focus on the league after winning at Wembley? Interestingly,

when I was at Luton Town, and we won the JPT, we got relegated in the

same season. Obviously, that's not going to happen to Peterborough.

What I'm saying is it can suddenly take your eye off the ball and when

you've been concentrating on that cup run and then suddenly now they

need to get back into the league. But the league is crucial, and they

need to get themselves back on. And, as we can see at the top of the

table, victory for Posh and that game in hand could be crucial. And

it could ready affect MK Dons' chances as well of extending their

season. They are desperate, of course, to make the latter stages.

They had a huge crowd at Stadium MK. 20,000.

This is the kind of scene which Pete Winkleman has been craving for. But

the gulf in class, I'm afraid, told the difference. Well, it's probably

because Wolves took over 9,000 away fans. Because they are doing so well

up at the top of the league, it just shows you that if MK Dons do ever

make it to the Championship, just what that stadium could look like.

This is what it's all about. Odelusi goes in for that challenge. He gets

the ball. So I am very surprised the referee gave a second yellow,

obviously, red card. And that was the turning point. You know, Wolves

have gone and put the ball to their backs. Massive melee. Literally,

everyone is throwing their body in front of it, trying to stop that

ball coming in. Eventually, the ball comes into the box for Macdonald.

And young McAlinden with this... Well, it is just a heart breaker for

MK Dons. Whenever McAlinden... I know he is and Northern Irish lad,

but I can't say I am happy for him to score that goal. He's always

happy. Let's take us on to the Championship now. A couple of weeks

ago, you'll remember we were saying Ipswich have conceded more points

after leading games than any other team in the country. Some 28 in all.

Tonight, we can reveal Ipswich are also top when it comes to rescuing

points from losing positions. A total of 18 gained thanks to Town's

battling spirit, the latest coming at Portman Road against Nottingham

Forest. Danny Fox has the first corner kick

of the game for Nottingham Forest. Swings towards the far post and into

the net. It is 1-0. Another shocker of a start for Ipswich Town. It is

Danny Collins, the former loan player here, who heads it into the

net inside four minutes. Creswell, left footed. There might

be a chance for Murphy, it was point-blank, it was a good stop.

Corner kick taken short. And it is headed in! It is an equaliser for

Ipswich Town. And it is no more than they deserve. It is Daryl Murphy

with his 11th of the season. It is Ipswich Town one, Nottingham Forest

one. Well, Shaun, you take a keen

interest at Portman Road. What do you think of the last few months of

the campaign? I think they've got a fantastic chance of making the

play-offs. You know, young Murphy is on fire at the moment. It is a great

opportunity. And with the stats about their resilience, it's superb.

Well, they are only two points off the play-off place. And getting that

draw against Forest at the weekend, it is a good point. And it's fine.

And it's also the fact they've had a good run of form. They've had two

wins and a draw in the last three games. And that is the kind of run

of form you need to get that momentum, taking themselves out of

the play-offs back into the top six. games. And that is the kind of run

of form you need to Could you put your finger on what McCarthy has

done? One thing out of all the others. Well, I think it's just the

solidity he gives and the confidence he brings. He has been there and

done it. The only thing is I would love to say Ipswich should get

promoted, but, you know. Come on, man, get it out of yourself. Good

luck to them. I suppose, looking from that perspective, Shaun, just a

quick one from you, can they make the play- off? Yes, most definitely.

I think they've hit a good run of form. Why not? And then it is a

lottery. So, why not? Shaun, thanks very much for your company. We

enjoyed reading your reactions, actually, to the Mick McCarthy

interview. And the focus on Ipswich last week. Please keep those

thoughts coming in via Twitter or Facebook. Particularly your stories

concerning the grassroots game where you live. We will share some of them

next week's programme. But that is it for another week. My thanks to

Shaun Turner from Norfolk County FA, and Paul McVeigh alongside me. Thank

you very much for watching, we will see you all again next week. That is

all from us for now on Late Kick Off. Goodbye for now.