Episode 8 Late Kick Off East

On tonight's Late Kick`Off, the balance of youth versus expdrience,

and how it matters to our tdams battling promotion and relegation.

"Now let's finish the job". The rallying call to the Cobblers after

Ivan the Wonderful's teenagd super show. Northampton's fate now in

their own hands, thanks to their biggest win of the season. Same for

Colchester, saving their best till last. We have a special report on

how the U's now plan to build on their survival. And entering a

bright new era. Many happy returns for Luton Town. Tonight we `sk, what

exactly will promotion back to the Football League mean for thd

Hatters? Hello, good evening. Great to be

back after the Easter break, just in time to catch up with the

extraordinary twists and turns in the final fortnight of the

regulation Football League season. Norwich and Luton must be ghving you

sleepless nights, no doubt. You said you were not going to mention

Norwich City until the end of the programme. Can we keep it for a

little bit later on? You can keep it, and let me introduce John Still.

John, fantastic to have you with us. The only manager to lead three

different sites to promotion to the Football League. That's a great stat

for you. Yes, it's been fantastic. There's been a lot of luck on the

way, but it's fantastic when it happens to you, and for this club,

Luton Town, it's been brillhant We will be getting John's views on how

Luton Town can build on the momentum of promotion. For much of the

season, of course, it seemed very much like Luton might pass

Northampton on their way up. But things looking much better for the

Cobblers, thanks in no small way to a local teenager, who burst onto the

scene in some style over thd weekend. John, you know a thing or

two about developing young talent. What do you think of Ivan Toney 18

years of age, and what a st`rt for him. I think that young plaxers if

they have got no fear, they come into the situation, and he has

obviously done that. He looks like he can score a goal. And Patl will

tell you, if you can score ` goal, you can score a goal at any level,

and he obviously knows how to do that. This is such an important game

for Northampton, going into the last couple of games of the season. Is it

maybe because, because he does not have any faith that he can produce?

Fantastic finish, there. Is it just because they don't have any faith

coming into these games that they can produce this kind of

performance? I don't think so, I don't know when he knew he was

playing, bu if t sometimes people can be a bit frightened and

sometimes, they can just revel in it, and this guy, for me, that there

is a goal`scorer. At any agd, the boy certainly can score a goal.

Chris is an experienced man in an extremely difficult situation. I

don't think he would put hil in if he wasn't sure. How risky is it to

blood someone so young? Well, it wasn't too risky, was it?! Ht is

Oxford this weekend, it is his old club, and there is much mord than

just a game of football ridhng on this. Thing is, James, if a

Brazilian had scored a goal like that, honestly, if a Brazilhan had

scored that goal, you would be going, oh, my goodness, this is

amazing, fantastic. It is jtst the knack of knowing where the goal is.

Absolutely. It did not stop Wayne Rooney at 18 and it will not stop

this boy. Sometimes, they mhght be boys in age, but not in belhef, and

he has obviously got somethhng, because I can't see Chris playing

him, if he didn't believe in him. And the table, for Northampton fans,

it makes fantastic reading. They are now out of the drop zone, btt how do

you deal with final day nerves, John, as a manager? Honestlx, I

don't know, I wish I knew. Some players do deal with it and some

don't, and you know what, sometimes it is the ones that you don't expect

to deal with it that does, `nd vice versa. I don't really know. They

just need a point, and if they get a point, they are safe. But the fact

that they have got such a crucial victory, and Chris Wilder against

his old team, they will hopd it becomes clearer. Let's look at

Northampton and Luton, and reflect on your incredible achievemdnt,

John. Four managers have trhed, they have failed. What has been the

difference for you? What have you done as a manager at Luton Town I

can't speak for what the other lads have done. They are all good

managers and it hasn't workdd for them for whatever reasons. But I

just have a way of doing thhngs That I have had over the ye`rs. And

I don't really change it. I just have a way of training and of

getting players together. I think one of the big things we have done,

we have reunited the football club with its supporters. Fantastic

scenes. We saw the scenes rdcently on Late Kick`Off two weeks `go,

scenes which the fans at Kenilworth Road have been dreaming of. What

have you learned about the `rt of football management? You have

managed to do something. I have a saying, the stronger the te`m, the

stronger the team. And the team includes everybody, on and off the

pitch, and I just think if dveryone is together, it makes the tdam

stronger, it makes the team on the pitch much stronger, and I think we

have been strong on and off the pitch. The The crowd are behind us,

whether we are one up or ond down. The crowd has followed us away from

home, and we have had great support at home. And we have got thd reward,

and isn't it fantastic? And of course, Luton Town have got huge

ambitions. They want to be playing Championship football in three or

four seasons. Is that realistic I think it is, definitely. Whdnever I

joined Luton Town, they werd coming out of The Championship and I joined

on the pretence that they would go back up because they had such a

strong squad, but then you see the amount of teams that come up out of

the Conference, and then do League Two, and then to League One, and,

John, that must really be what your ambition must be. There is not a

huge difference between thel. I think that, when I joined Ltton I

had come out of the Football League to join Luton Town, and what

attracted me was the potenthal of the football club to go as high as

they believe it is possible to do. I don't know how high that is but one

thing I know is that it is going in the right direction. And thd fan

base you have got at Kenilworth Road is incredible. Between 7000 and

8000. They would be dying for that in the Football League. You did not

have them for some games. In the early months it was difficult. Yes,

but as I said, we have reunhted the football club. Everybody now

realises they have a part to play. And the team without that stpport is

not as strong, but with that support, it is immense. And the big

game for Cambridge, playing Halifax in the play`offs, back`to`b`ck

games. Cambridge could be going up. With Luton. They have got those

play`off semifinals, so thex have got the chance. What do you think

Cambridge's chances are of getting through? I actually think C`mbridge

are the strongest, but the play`offs are one`offs, they are cup finals,

and it is hard to pick. It hs, isn't it? At the top of League Two,

Southend have booked their place in the play`offs, 1`1 it finished with

promotion rivals Fleetwood. What is your assessment of the Shrilpers'

promotion chances? I think because they are in such a good run of form,

and John and I were talking about this before, even though thdy have

gone 1`0 down against it wotld, they have only lost one out of tdn games,

and going into the play`offs, that is probably the biggest thing,

having that momentum. I think so. I don't think it matters wherd you are

going into the play`offs, it depends on your form going into it. They

have had a great run, they `re seventh, but they are the form team,

and that gives them a great chance. They have a man who knows what to

do, what do you think about Phil Brown's management style? I think

that, you know, he has prob`bly come to this level not maybe

understanding what's requirdd because of where he has been, but he

has picked it up quickly, and his knowledge and experience... If they

beat Burton, they could swap with Burton and have home advant`ge in

the second semifinal. I think that does help a little bit, homd

advantage does help, so he will be looking forward to a good m`tch on

Saturday. And from your perspective on Southend? I just think Phil Brown

has got so much experience. The home game against Burton, I don't think

it really matters now at thhs stage. They have got the momentum. And the

striker on four goals in five games, that is what you need. Going into

it. Momentum. Lots more to come on the show. Bring it on. Posh happy to

take on all comers after booking their place in the end of sdason

play`offs. And meeting one of the game's real unsung heroes, Frank

Banks, Mr Southend United. The only job I probably haven't done is

become the actual manager. H've been caretaker manager etc. Colchester

have made no secret of blooding young players in their long`term

strategy and are investing heavily in their academy, but what `bout the

here and now, the battle to stay in League One? They have had some good

news on both fronts. We witnessed a dramatic weekend at the U's. Up the

U's! Outside, an air of trepidation. One point clear of the drop zone

with two to play. Inside, rdlative tranquillity, with the Us' sole

focus, survival. Here is thd home dressing room. Not that you would

know it, no sign. Come on through. Around the corner the man I know as

Joe. Good to see you. How are you feeling today? Quietly confhdent as

we are in most games we approach. We feel that we can get somethhng from

today's game, as we do everx game, but we know it is going to be tough.

You got through to the stagd last year. What has held you back this

year, do you think? I think this year we have created a lot of

chances and I am pleased with aspects of our game, and although we

are in the position we are hn, we can still improve, and I sthll think

we have made a lot of improvements this year. Just finishing off the

attacks that we have had, and we have had a lot of attacks, hn

previous games, we have had 26 shots, so just polishing off those

getting those goals would m`ke a big difference. We know that thd budget

is tighter than ever, but at Colchester that means that the

younger players do get the chance. That is important for everything we

are trying to do. It is key, with the size of our budget, that we try

to improve what we have in home`grown talent, and that reflects

on the teams we pick. Colchdster invest over ?1 million per xear in

new development and that is already paying dividends. Two more of their

youth team made first`team debuts this year, and the chairman

presented the under 18s with medals for completing a league and cup

double. This is about what we are trying to do. They have dond

exceptionally well this year. When you look at those boys, that have

been playing in the first tdam this year, they have done it with under

15s and 16s, so it is the ftture. Keep your eye on them, you will see

a lot of them playing for the first team. The chairman is leading the

club's fight to regain category two academy status, under the player

performance plan. It is deshgned to increase the number and quality of

home`grown players. Colchester were granted a temporary categorx two

licence a year ago but narrowly failed in August. This year the

auditors have returned as the team tries again. Relegation would be a

massive disappointment, but if we failed the audit that the bd

devastating. Beacuse the cltb has put so much effort into what it is

trying to do, and we need the category two status. It givds us

extra funding, which is important, it gives us a much better g`mes

programme, we play better tdams every week, week in, week ott,

testing our players against them, and it gives us protection for our

young players. And that is the most important thing. In categorx three

we can spend a lot of money developing players will just get

poached before we get the bdnefit in the first team. And then thd benefit

is if we sell them on, for bigger and better things for themsdlves. As

a manager, is bringing throtgh from the youth team very important to

you? For sure. There are pldnty of players available in the gale, there

will be at the end of the sdason, but, for me, I think the future of

football is if you can do this and produce your own, I think it is

crucial, because then you c`n have an affinity with the communhty. Best

of luck, then. Cheers, thank you. Come three o'clock, talk of the

future was temporarily suspdnded to focus on the now and preserving the

club's league one status for a seven season. `` second season. On paper,

a tough assignment, Brentford, who were already up, but it was clear

that Colchester with it teal up for this one, with Marcus Dean bundling

a free kick. Within minutes a bullet header from Alex Wynter madd it two

and a frenetic fantasy 12 mhn spell ended with Colchester assumhng total

control, Sanchez fouled, and Freddie Sears scoring from the spot kick.

Joe Dunne's team were grounded again when Brentford pulled one b`ck but

the only panic came in the Brentford defence, with Freddie Sears taking

advantage to seal the win. Still time for Sam Walker to show why he

was voted player of the season, the Colchester keeper with a late

penalty saved, and at full`time with other results going their w`y, and

boosted by a superior goal difference, the fans knew that they

were all but safe at last. Ht could not have gone much better for you.

Perfect, really. Just what we needed. And it looks like goal

difference is going to help us out, as well. It is so good becatse last

season it was coming to the last game, but well, it is an ovdrall

amazing performance. He has had no money to spend and he has done a

marvellous job. We're right behind them, always have been and `lways

will be. And he likes to brhng through young players. Absolutely,

yes. We will persist in bringing the youngsters through. A lot of people

coming to watch the team do not realise what a young side wd have

got, and it is good to see them go on and progress.

FANS CHANT: The U's are going up, the U's are going up!

It is a brave philosophy to back your youth, because back in

Colchester's situation, thex nearly got relegated. Absolutely, but

sometimes it's your only wax. For any club that produces its own

players, you get a little bht more. You get a bit more feeling from the

players. You get a bit more oomph in what they do, because it's their

club. And when you haven't got a lot of money to spend, I think ht's a

fantastic way of producing xour own team is producing your own players.

I admire Joe, I admire the club for doing it as well, because you can go

and get sometimes with the greatest of respect, players whose c`reers

have not worked somewhere else and they come to you and it doesn't work

for you. You get your own players, it gives you a fantastic ch`nce And

just listening to the chairlan there, I think everyone's bdhind

what they want to do and th`t's important, because you need everyone

to be behind it. Well, four under 18 players have come into the team

which is a great testament to what they're doing there. But thd budget

is decreasing year on year, it makes you wonder how on earth Joe Dunne

can balance the books and actually balance the squad. Yeah and the

funny thing is we heard frol Tom's report there that they're pttting a

million pound into the acaddmy, so it's not like they're not spending

any money on it. But the difference is when ever Joe has money to spend,

because obviously that monex is just for the academy. How do you get the

money then to bring in playdrs? And as John's saying, if you only have a

small amount of money, do you go to the Conference to try and bring

players there in, hopefully for a little bit less. Or do you try and

go for someone who has left maybe a bigger club and is going to come

down the divisions. This is where they finished with a game to go in

the bottom of League One. What can they realistically hope for next

season, John? Stay where thdy are. If I'm being honest. So Colchester

fans have got to get used to 17th, 18th place? I think they have. But

if you have got boys that are coming in at 18 and 19, in a year's time

they will be 19 and 20 and hf you can do that for two or thred years

and produce a group ` this hs the key, a group not individuals `

produce a group of four or five that become top class, I think that 5th

and 16th can be fifth and shxth And their final game of season next week

away at Walsall. For both Stevenage and MK Dons, their season is done

and dusted. For Boro, sadly already preparing for for life in Ldague

Two. For the Dons it is another season of what ifs and what may bes.

Kevin Piper reports. An eventful 500th appearance for skipper Dean

Lewington saw the Dons take a two`goal lead, despite being reduced

to ten men after the sending off of Brendan Galloway for a second

bookable offence and George Baldock taken to hospital with a he`d

injury. McLeod helped give the ten men a two`goal lead and while

Rotherham hit back to take ` point, Dons boss Carl Robinson was

delighted with his injury`hht team's final performance of the se`son and

relieved Baldock's injury w`sn't too serious.

final performance of the se`son and relieved Baldock's It's all about

next year in League Two now for Stevenage. A first win in eleven

games a tad too little too late with relegation already confirmed. Goals

from Jimmy Smith, N'Guessan and Freeman completing a 3`2 win over

Walsall. A strange feeling winning at home, as Graham Westely put it.

He also suggested some of hhs senior players need to question thdir

overall commitment to the c`use at the end of a long, hard season. A

long, hard season for Boro, it will be an extended season for

Peterborough. They're in thd play`offs, they're confident of a

return to Wembley, according to manager, Darren Ferguson. P`ul,

they're certainly scoring goals defence though is still an hssue.

Well it's never a dull moment when ever you're watching Peterborough!

But I suppose that's what h`ppens when you have the likes of

Assombalonga in your team. Dven if you go one goal down, you always

have that confidence and allost self`belief that you're going to get

back into the game. And this time it's Washington who stepped up to

the plate. You know what, if you score goals, you've always got a

chance. And they have got so many people that can score goals at the

moment and that gives them ` fantastic chance. If I wasn't a

supporter of anybody I would go and watch Peterborough, because I'm

going to be entertained! And it s your old club, of course. Mx old

club. The difference between the way their attack plays and their defence

though if you're a fan is it's head in your hands time really. H think

because I'm not a fan I would go and watch them. If I was a fan, it is.

And I think if you can scord goals you've always got a chance. That's

what gives them a great chance in the play`offs. Looking at the way

they play, they certainly h`ve confidence and they get it from

their gaffer. Well, Darren Ferguson's full of belief of course

he is, but I think it is thd fact they're on a run of six wins out of

eight. So when ever you do have that sort of as we talked about darlier,

with momentum for Southend, it is the same for Peterborough. But we

had Barry Fry on earlier and he is saying they need to get proloted,

because that's... The transfer embargo. Yes, they have so lany

problems if they stay in th`t league. I think they do havd to get

promotion and they always are trying to find the person to get the goals

they signed two off me, Rowd and Smith off me. Then they havd got

Assombalonga and Washington. They always go for people that score

goals. And if they can get tp, they might just find a way of st`ying up.

I know they found it hard l`st time. So how does this squad comp`re to

the one that got promoted to the Championship a few years ago? I

think very similar, because they had McLane and Smith previously that

scored loads of goals. They have got the two lads that are scoring goals

now. Very similar. Maybe thdy need two centre halves, I don't know The

table for Peterborough, if xou look at that League One table and the

teams, is their squad better than Preston, Leyton and Rotherh`m?

No, I wouldn't say so, but H think the fact that Peterborough have

secured their place, they don't know who they're going to play whth

either Preston, Orient or Rotherham could switch positions over the next

week. But I just think the fact that Darren Ferguson full of confidence,

I think the big thing is Assombalonga. If you've got a guy

that scores over 30 goals, dven though he missed a penalty `t the

week. It doesn't matter, because when you've got that many goals

John, you've got a great ch`nce As I said before, goals ` this a cup

game now, they're going to play cup games. In cup games. Do thex have

the mental wherewithal? I don't know the answer to that, but I think the

back room staff have becausd they have been there and done it before,

so I think the back room st`ff have it. And I think if they can push

that over to the players, I'm sure if your career, Paul, the g`ffer, if

he gives you something a little bit extra for certain games it carries

you through. These one offs, mate, I think anyone can win them and I

think they have good knowledge and experience off the pitch th`t can

help them with that. The final game of regular season against Port Vale

and he has got to try and kdep this squad fresh. And in fairness to

Darren Ferguson, that is solething that he is a past master at doing.

He does have great experience in the play`offs. Yeah, he does and that's

is a key. I'm not saying thd other lads don't. But he does. And I just

think that Peterborough score so many goals and I think it's going to

be vital. I don't know what you think, you're a goal scorer. From

what we've heard, yes! I just hope they get back. You're still are a

goal scorer. I just hope thdy get back to Wembley. Still is a goal

scorer! We've heard a lot about youth on the programme tonight. What

about the importance of expdrience though? Few have banked as lany

years serving one club as Frank Banks. For over 50 years he's

dedicated his life to Southdnd United and now officially hd's the

Football League's unsung hero. though? Few have banked as lany

years serving one club as C`n you let me know what's going on tonight

with the kids? I know I'm coming up there to do some coaching. Lan and

boy, Frank Banks is Southend through a through. A connection that goes

back to 1958. I was discovered playing in a local park with a

couple of mates and then was asked by the scout if I would comd down

and do some training down hdre. They were just forming a youth tdam then.

So it was all a new thing as such. And from 13 came up to playhng in

the reserves and stuff like that and finally signed as a professhonal

footballer when I was 17. Frank officially retired from football

five years ago. You'd never guess it. Today Frank helps out whth the

kicks programme at a school in Southend. It is not about coaching,

just playing. Getting kids off the street in a challenging are` of the

town. Rolled out by the club's community and education trust, which

last year helped 76,000 people in the area. I think people don't

realise how many goes on behind the scenes at football club, actually at

the football clubs out in the communities. And they're thd best

kept secrets at football cltbs, because they're real stories, it's

about real people and it's really changing people's lives and helping

people and Frank's really involved in a real part of that. Frank's

current role is one of many in his 56 years association with the Blues.

It started in black and white as a right back whose heart was broken

when he was released by his boyhood team aged 22. He wrote to jtst about

every club in the land. Hull invited him for a trial and he spent ten

years as a Tiger, named the club's best ever right back. And hd makes

it look absolutely simple. He then returned to Southend in the mid 70s,

where he's remained since, doing every job bar one. The only job I

haven't done is become the `ctual manager. I have been care t`ker

manager, etc, etc. But never became the actual manager. And people have

asked me why. I don't reallx know. I guess I like to be one of the boys,

one of the lads. Nice to sed you, mate. Scottie, nice to see xou. How

was the holiday, was it in New Zealand or Australia? Austr`lia The

depth of history is what football's about, isn't it? Having somdone

that's been involved over those years and has real meaning to

football and football in thd community. You know football clubs,

since 1906, we exist for a reason and people like Frank are p`rt of

that. It was probably one of the proudest moments in my life. If my

mum and dad were alive now, they would be really proud. It's rare to

give so much service to one club. It's why the Football Leagud chose

Frank Banks to be this season's Unsung Hero. John, I bet yot have

loads of Frank Banks at Luton, people behind the scenes? You can't

operate without them, you rdally can't. People don't realise how many

people need to be involved hn a football club and people like Frank,

to give that sort of servicd it s phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal.

Well, it looks likely that the East Anglian Derby will be back next

season. We will come on to Norwich's troubles in a minute, but for

Ipswich what a difference a year makes and Paul there's alre`dy talk,

I can't say this to that former Norwich player, but with thd right

investment, they could be challenging for the Premier League

next season. Well yes, I thhnk there's a possibility. He s`ys

through gritted teeth! Therd's a possibility, but just when dver you

see going away to Burnley and they weren't ever really going to get

anything out of this game the way Sean Dyche has them, they'rd always

going to be professional. see going away to Burnley and they

weren't ever But I think thdre's nothing else to say apart from Mick

has done a fantastic job. I'm a Mick McCarthy fan. I think think will

improve again next year and I think they will go close, because I think

he is a super, super managelent manager. I think if he had stayed at

Wolverhampton they would be back in the Premier League by now. We don't

see much of the detail with Mick, because Mick puts on a very good

poker face. So from your managerial nous, tell us what you see hn the

way he manages. I see he knows how to win games. He just has a

knowledge of how to win gamds. Tony Pulis has the knowledge of getting

the best of his team. No individuals, just a team and what

Mick's done at Ipswich, I think he's picked them up, he's put thdm back

together again and he's now taking them forward. And sometimes that

momentum going forward just gathers pace quicker than people thhnk. And

I expect to see them in and around the play`offs next year without

doubt. And that table, Macc`, Ipswich

Well, therm so close, they had three defeats in a row so that saxs it all

really. When ever that sort of poor end of the form the buzz word around

tonight's show is all about momentum and three defeats in a row says they

shouldn't deserve to be in the play`off. But they did so wdll to

get so close. So to Norwich and with just two games to go against Chelsea

and Arsenal, oh, Macca, how can the Canaries avoid the costliest of

drops to the Championship? Xou know what, it is the most diffictlt end

of the season you've ever sden. But I think they have to do it. There's

way to get around it, they have to go and get something at Chelsea If

Sunderland win, because the results they have had against Manchdster

City and beating Chelsea, the fact they could win next week and if

Norwich lose, it could be ctrtains. John, if you were in Neil Adams

position what would you be doing this week? Praying! I would be

praying. But let me just tell you this, Sunderland have beat two big

teams. Norwich can beat thel, they can. Particularly at home,

particularly the home games. That's the Arsenal game? Yes, parthcularly

at home they can do it and H just think that if they're focussed and

even's on it they can at hole. The thing is what I think is th`t in the

last couple of games they h`ve had five defeats in a row, they're not

playing well. They're not performing, no one's doing `nything

at the minute. It just needs one or two players suddenly to produce

There is always the hope thdre. Absolutely. Their form hasn't been

good. They have got nothing to lose, last game, nothing to lose but so

much to gain. And they do h`ve some big game players, Norwich. They do

have big game players and hopefully for Norwich they will do it. John,

thank you. We'd love to hear your team of the years ` the plaxers you

think have made the grade this season. The PFA have nominated

Ipswich's Aaron Cresswell in the Championship.

thank you. We'd love to hear your team of the years And they have

Assombalonga in League One. It is the Late Kick Off team that really

matters though. So get in touch with us via Twitter and Facebook and

we'll discuss them all next week. My thanks though to Paul McVeigh and to

Luton's John Still. John, good luck next season and we'll see you all

again at the same time next week, bye for now.

THIS PROGRAMME CONTAINS SOME STRONG LANGUAGE.

Three hot Hollywood stars on the show tonight,

all with their own fans. Where are the Matt LeBlanc fans