Episode 6 Late Kick Off North East and Cumbria

On tonight's Late Kick Off: It WASN'T acceptable in the '80s -

but is fake now the way forward? $YELLOW If we have a standard

generic pitch throughout football, there ain't going to be any point

going to away games. Quinn's gone - but is O'Neill

heading back to Wembley with the Black Cats?

And Hartlepool were flying high on Saturday - could Carlisle match

them tonight? Hello, welcome to another Late Kick

Off. Danny Mills is back. And joining us tonight is another

former Middlesbrough and England defender, now the Under 18s coach

at the Riverside, Colin Cooper. Does another exciting era beckon at

the Borough Academy? I mean, we finished that game - I've let my

allegiance go in there - Borough finished the game with a Graduates

against Sunderland the other week... Well, I think it's the way forward.

You know, the money that's not in football any more, I think you've

got to keep developing, and we've had a good reputation over the

years, and hopefully we can continue.

Yeah. Did Gordon Strachan's prevalence for signing men in

kilts... Did that cause any lasting damage? Cos morale must have been a

bit low when all these established pros were being brought in.

Well, when I was young, one of the reasons I signed for Middlesbrough

was that there was always a pathway. That pathway stopped briefly, but

thankfully it's open again now. This is the way forward, isn't it?

I was at Southampton at the weekend, spoke to Nigel Adkins, their

manager - they are trying to get a team that is at least half home-

produced. It's got to make a sense in the current financial climate.

Oh, definitely. But Colin's right - players need a bit of light at the

end of the tunnel, they need to see their dream is possible. And I

think that's even happening at the likes of Man City - one or two

Academy lads have been in and around the first team on the bench,

just to give them a little relief, and a bit of hope.

Do you worry about the fall away? Do you worry about the fact that

you'll have a hell of a lot of players that are unfortunately not

going to make it? Well, that is the sad part about

football, you know, Dave Parnaby who runs the Academy has that job

to do every year, the yes and no one, and it's an awful thing, but I

think when you bring players in at 16, there is a point we have to say,

this isn't the way to go. But hopefully I think we give them

enough belief, enough tools to go and have a career, even if it's not

at Middlesbrough, have a career somewhere else.

Well, that's the whole point - to try and hone them up to have at

least some sort of career. If you are of a certain age, you will

remember those horrible plastic pitches at clubs like Preston,

Oldham, Luton and QPR in the 1980s. Well, since they ripped up the

Astroturf at Deepdale in the 1993- 1994 season, English football has

been a grass-only game. But last Thursday ,the Football League

announced plans to canvas opinion about the possible return of

artificial pitches. And, as Andrew Hartley reports, technology has

# It was acceptable in the '80s... Actually, they were hated by most

people in the 1980s, but plastic pitches aren't what they once were.

Northern League side Durham City are the highest placed team in the

English football pyramid to play on one of the new-style artificial

pitches. It's state of the art, with grass-like fibres. Durham's

manager is the former Sunderland player Richard Ord.

I would rather play on grass, but this is fantastic, because we have

never had a game called of all season. It gets played off seven

days a week throughout the year. I prefer this rather than playing

on some of the other pitches where you get bobbly surfaces, and cannot

get your touch right most of the time.

Some of the games we've seen this year have far surpassed anything in

the Premier League. The tempo, the passing, the speed of the game's

been absolutely brilliant, so as a The Durham City pitch began life

here in Cumbria. The company's one of Britain's leading manufacturers

of artificial grass, and has just been awarded the contract to

install a training pitch for the The technology is much different

from the '80s - the '80s carpet was very much like you would find in

your sitting room. The grass itself is a very hard-wearing polyethylene

fibre, which is stitched into a polypropylene backing. It's then

sealed in with a latex covering on the back. I think they should

embrace the technology - there's a lot of successful examples of

pitches, not just in football, but in other sports out there. Hockey

is now being played on an artificial surface since the mid-

seventies, other sports are just slow to catch up. People are afraid

of it, because they are not used to The winter weather has played havoc

with the Football League fixtures recently. Last weekend,

Middlesbrough's game at Ipswich was abandoned, 20 other matches

postponed. The positives of synthetic turf for clubs without

undersoil heating, are clear - many games would not have been called

off, saving money, and a fixture pile-up. Plus, there are other

financial benefits, which is why Accrington Stanley are leading the

call for change. Instead of just using it once or

twice a week, you can use it seven days a week. We could have the

youth team on it, the community team, and you just -- you do not

just bring in money through the rental, but you have a halt though

more of people coming in and using the football club.

But our League One sides are not so sure. I still feel that football is

again that should be played on grass. I am a traditionalist. I

feel that we are making the game more and more sterile, the next

thing will be indoor pitches and this sort of thing. I just think we

should stick to the grass, it is part of the game, you go away

somewhere and think, is their pitch good or bad, so you have to adapt

to their pitch. If we have a generic football pitch throughout

football, there will be no point in going to away games. We are all on

the same level. For somebody as ordinary a player

as me, I played on one of the first pictures ever at QPR, I ended up

tackling fresh air, the ball was bouncing so much. It would be a

disaster. Players do not like it, managers do not like it, more

experienced and international players would say it affects ankles

and joints, so it would not be a step forward as far as are

unconcerned. Rugby has already died in. Gosforth

led the way in Union, no Super League new boys Widnes have a so-

called iPitch, its which so far has been met with a mixed response.

If you use the right fibre, burn marks should be avoided. Not only

because of the carpet, but -- but because of what is underneath the

carpet. They may be a shock pad, and the low that, a base of stone,

then maybe at a further base -- a further shock pad beneath it.

At Durham City, they 0.2 experiments that proved their pitch

is not any more dangerous than grass.

The only thing with the artificial surface, is that it is a lot faster,

and insurance plays a big part. Muscle soreness and stiffness, the

players complain about. There is no injuries. You do get a few odd

little Burns, but you can get grass burns, so when it has got rain

macro on it it is perfect. When we have had heavy weather, it

-- on grass you would go all over on your ankles, but this is a plain

flat surface. Before plastic pitches come to the

League, there would need to be a vote in favour at an AGM of all 72

clubs, perhaps in two years' time. A lot of the clubs pushing for it

other clubs that claim would be on there as well. I just think the

Danny, soap and -- no games get called off, no bobbles, and its

beat -- it speeds the match up? Nonsense! I understand it is a

fantastic tool for learning on, it is brilliant for kids, but playing

at the highest level it is certainly not. Professionals do not

like it, the ball does not roll the same, but has the same, a bit like

golf, when you see players take a defect, they take a big chunk of

grass. You cannot do that on Astroturf. But the world progresses,

we do not have men in ruffles and tights any more! Life goes on, we

have the technology, why not apply it in football? Particularly lower

down when the struggle so much to get a game on? I understand the

point, and I think the debate is, you do not get games called off -

fine. But quick and easy, artificial pitch? Artificial game.

That much of a difference? It is a great teaching told... We have

teams, Serie A teams in Italy use it, it is used in France,

Switzerland, Belgium, in Scotland, they have already introduced it...

It is a massive advantage for the home team, because it plays

completely different to grass. The ball does not roll the same, it is

harder. It affects your knees more. So you end up with more knee-

ligament damage, cartage damage, because used -- you twist your foot,

and your foot stays planted. If you go and watch a game or play on it,

it is a completely different game, for kids it is perfect, up to the

age of 16. This is the latest we see is the latest generation.

must have had previous experience of plastic pitches - in terms of

soft tissue... I played in Luton, as Danny said, massive thing for

the home team. You know the consistency, you get used to it.

You see some of the Games in the lower leagues, Durham City, you see

some of them players, throwing themselves in front of balls, slide

tackles. There is no knowing what it does to your skin. It rips it.

am tempted to get you to rip your trousers off and test it! You are

right, some of the injuries look horrific. Slabs of meat... It is

bad enough pre-season when you are playing on dry pitches, but when

you slide on this, like the Rugby League lads, you end up with a grey

is that simply does not heal for three or four months. Sometimes a

patch that sort of size, and it does not heal because every week

you are training, you get infections... So would it have to

be blanket Colin, would everybody have to adopt it in terms

offenders? I understand the financial implications for clubs in

League One... Harry Redknapp said this week that they struggled at

Stevenage because the pitch was rubbish. It is a cliche, but the

pitch is a great leveller. If a Premier League side go to an away

game and the pitch is terrible, the advantage of being better, more

skilful, goes out the window. So yes, for kids learning their skills,

you have consistency. But at the very top level, artificial pitches

are not anywhere near a good enough for me to play week in, week out.

Bad news for lines meant to. If you have any sports injuries to show us,

keep it clean please! You can Still to come: A rare Monday night

away trip for Carlisle. Could they repeat their finest hour with

another win against Brentford? Niall Quinn's 11 and a half years

stay in Sunderland is over. He arrived in 1996 as a player and

departed in 2002. He returned in 2006 temporarily as manager, then

became chairman. He has been in international development for the

majority of the season. -- this season. Ellis Short, the owner, in

a glowing tribute, said his work was done in this area. Surprise,

for me. Like you say, he is part of the furniture at Sunderland. It's a

real surprise. If that's coming from Ellis Short, maybe his work is

done. Hopefully by his own choice. He's got family and business

interests in Ireland outside football. If that is the case,

fantastic. Go home, relax and enjoy yourself. He has done a fantastic

job for Sunderland Football Club, let's not forget that. I suppose if

we're looking at his legacy, we will look to their darkest hour

when they'd stumbled out of the Premier League with a record low

points and he brought Roy Keane in. And started the root and branch

that has established Sunderland now as a Premier League team. Well, he

did fantastic as a player. He had that incredible partnership with

Kevin Phillips. He's still playing. And then he obviously went away,

came back, and he was a great front man for the club. He had passion. I

think the fact that he knew about football, he knew about business

and managed to put the two together. He said he didn't know about

business. He said in his pay-off that he didn't really have any

formal education, no business experience. He's now gone away to

look after his own business interests. I think he's had enough.

He knows enough about business and football. In a boardroom, talking

about football to a chairman and giving them a basic understanding

of what footballers are like and managers, it would have been

invaluable. And he has done a fantastic job. He hasn't quite been

in the limelight in the last couple of seasons. He's had more of a

back-seat role, if you like. But he's done a fantastic job and I

think everyone wishes him all the best. Massive charisma as well, of

course. Wonderful guy and I think the world of him. You rightly said,

bringing Roy Keane back and getting the whole thing going again after

that horrible Premier League season. But good luck to him. He's a

fantastic and I wish him all best. He feels he leaves the club in good

hands off the field and certainly on. A lot of Sunderland fans will

certainly agree having seen off Arsenal in the quarter-finals of

the FA Cup. Everton away in the next round. Are they potential

winners, do you think? They'll certainly have it on their radar

with a man like that. When you look at who's left in the draw, Chelsea

have a difficult game against Birmingham. Sunderland have to be

up there. Tottenham I presume will be one of the favourites. You

presume they're going to get through against Stevenage in the

replay. But after that, normally it's one of the big four. I think

it's only happened twice in the last 20 years that a team outside

the top four... Sunderland have an out and out I must win attitude.

But they have their work cut out. Martin O'Neill has done a fantastic

and job and they have to be in the top three or four favourites.

only problem is they haven't won at Goodison since 1998 which was

eventually on a penalty shoot-out. Not beaten Everton at all since

2001. And David Moyes has never lost to Sunderland in 14 games as

Everton boss. Well, as somebody from a family Sunderland background,

there always has to be a first time, so this might just be the one.

are all pledging our allegiances somehow tonight. Some of us more by

accident than others. We should say congratulations to James McClean

claim for getting his first call-up to the Ireland squad. Hartlepool

are back in League One's top 10 after that 3-0 win over Notts

County. Neale Cooper absolute they gave them the hairdryer after the

1-0 defeat to Preston last week. -- absolutely. To such an extent he

said he was exhausted. He learned under the grand master, Sir Alex

Ferguson. Have you ever been on the receiving end of the hairdryer?

you having a laugh? Hairdryer? What would I want with one of them!

set that up for you, didn't I? Have you ever been absolutely beasted by

a manager? Once or twice, maybe a lot more than that. You need it

sometimes. Do you? Of course you do. You have to be careful what players

you do it to. Some players react really badly. But as a player

sometimes you need a kick up the backside. That is what you've got

to have. I think Arsenal probably deserved one last midweek. They

didn't perform against Sunderland and now they're out of the Cup. So

it does work. But is there a place in the modern game with the brittle

personalities? You're dealing with 18 year-olds and you ask them to

make a cup of tea and they cry. Like Danny said, you have to pick

your targets. There are people who you can give the hairdryer to. Some

you have got to put your arm around. But it definitely worked. They won

3-0 and Martin Allen lost his job after the game, so whatever worked,

it worked. Whatever Neil did, it worked. You have been reading my

next link! Brentford's Griffin Park is a regular in football trivia

quizzes. Do you know why? That's what Google is for, surely! I know.

It has a pub on every corner. That's old school for you. He is

absolutely right. It does have a pub on every corner. So, after

tonight's game down in west London, Carlisle fans were spoilt for

choice to either celebrate a win or drown their sorrows. You

commentator, BBC Cumbria's James commentator, BBC Cumbria's James

into the back of the net. -- good ball. Great ball end. Right to the

edge of the area. Brentford are 1-0 up. Carlisle have it now. Pong past

one man. Into the stands. From a tight angle, it is in the net.

Harder and low. The goalkeeper could not deal with it. After 32

coming in and it is in the back of the net for 3-0. Carlisle are in

big trouble now. He went -- the defender went for a back header and

got it very wrong. The very questionable. After 41 minutes, it

is three goals to nil. They could be space for the 4th. Good save.

Good save by Adam column. Dear me. Carlisle are in real trouble. What

a finish. Be done -- it didn't matter who was there as it was a

wonderful finish. Straight into the top corner. Beautiful finish.

Carlisle were worried about the men at the back post, but a man at the

front paws just bend it into the Almost a hat trick there. It has

some of that. I am not saying Carlisle are not trying, but it is

good to see someone come out and show what it means. That is full

time. They beat them here this time last year in the Johnstone's Paint

Trophy final. But tonight Carlisle have been mauled.

Not a good night for the Cumbrians. They have done Hartlepool no

Last week, Darlington earned a stay of execution until the end of April.

Darlington 1883 was formed so fans can buy shares. They're trying to

raise �750,000. 173,000 so far. They reckon 600,000 will be enough

to make the club viable for the future. What do you think? Well,

first of all, that they're still in business is the most important

thing. They have been through a really, really rough patch and, as

much as I think is he is probably enjoying it, I feel for Craig

Liddle. All hands to the pump. Youth team, first team, the whole

lot. I just hope that whoever gets hold of it, they get the money

together and have a bit of good fortune for the people of

Darlington. We want to see them back in the League if possible and

that's not going to happen if they can't raise the money. Creeping

ominously as well towards the relegation zone. Does it remind you

of 1986, of what happened with Middlesbrough's liquidation? Gates

locked, training on park pitches? Well, listen, the one thing it is

for the players, we might be smiling or whatever, but we were

scared. We weren't that scared, obviously! Well, indeed. Can we

just talk about co-ordination and knowing the words of the singalong

there! Never been a problem! think it's important, I really do.

That end shot was nearly 12 months after the beginning shot, which has

the scary part. -- was. I think I'd played a dozen games in the first

team. So, where's your football career? Them lads who are now

playing at Darlington, you hope that can be sorted out. So that

they get football careers. And hopefully back in the League as

quickly as possible. Great club. I would just like to see the people

of Darlington really get behind them. Different feel round

Middlesbrough this week and for the last week after that midweek win

over Forest, first since Boxing Day. Giving everyone a bit of a boost.

Three points from the previous 18. It is really tough for Tony at the

moment. Everybody knew that the squad wasn't massive and suffered a

few injuries and a few suspensions recently. So it has been a real

grind. But the performance against Forest, they were much better than

Forest on the night. They deserved the win. It should have been more

comfortable really than it was at the end of the game, but

Middlesbrough were much stronger than Forest. You just hope that

they can get another one at Millwall and then they can get back

into the play-off picture. And you never know. Is it the play-offs, do

you think? You pulled me up on it a few weeks ago. You still haven't

forgot it! It's tough. A young, small squad, you don't have

strength in depth. It was always going to have a tricky spell.

Hopefully they have now got out of that. They can now go on a decent

run to the end of the season. If they make the play-offs, as we all

know, the play-offs is a complete lottery. You have got three games

to get to the final and possibly get promotion. We have seen the

team from sixth sometimes do it. It can happen. But now they have to

start again and get a new lot of momentum going towards the end of

the season and let so that they do. Just a word about Barry Robson.

He's going to depart at the end of the season to the Vancouver

Whitecaps. Which means, at the age of 33, they're getting a higher

earner of the books, but he has been a major influence. Obviously,

the lads you mentioned before came down from Scotland, I'd like to say

I think Barry has been the biggest success of them all. He has that

epitome that Middlesbrough fan loves. -- fans. He wears his heart

on his sleeve and gives his lot. Hence one or two suspensions. By

I'll be sad to see him go. I think he's been one of the better players

of the last two years. And nice to see Rhys Williams been given an

extended contract. Which either means you're tying up the crown

jewels or you're going to get a good pay-off when he does go.

Fantastic. Got to keep the youngsters to keep going. Really

good to see you. Good luck with developing the new talent. Thanks