Episode 8 Late Kick Off North East and Cumbria

On tonight's Late Kick Off, a tough defender tackling his biggest

challenge... Life after football. There was a point when I was really

low. I could not find a way out. Marvin's mission. Top scorer Emnes

aiming for the big time with Boro. It is enough to play in the

championship. And I would like to try something else.

Plus reaction from a bad-tempered Derby.

Welcome to another Late Kick Off. No Danny Mills tonight. But Micky

Gray is back. And the day after the Tyne-Wear Derby, we are joined by a

man who is black and white through and through. Apart from a couple of

I think I am delighted to welcome the former Newcastle and Sunderland

midfielder Lee Clark. But maybe not after that little dance at the

start. We will talk about the Derby match in a minute. You have to help

me with something. Settle an argument. Mickey came to see you

last season down at Huddersfield. Did a little bit of training while

he was filming. He thinks he is fit as a lapdog. I think he has gone to

seed, Lee. Come on, who is right? knew and played alongside him. I

knew him in his heyday. Off air, he kept pestering me, give us a yell.

I think he has shown a bit too much time on the golf course since he

has stopped playing. Your actual words on the day were, he used to

be more supple. Is that a subtle way of saying his legs have gone?

That is the nice way, I think. think you are absolutely right.

The biggest crowd at any sporting event in Britain this weekend was

at yesterday's Tyne-Wear Derby. Nicholas Bendtner put the visitors

ahead, before the scourge of Sunderland, Shola Ameboi, grabbed

an injury-time equaliser for Newcastle. You can catch the

highlights on Match Of The Day 2, which will be on the iPlayer from

Wednesday. Here is some reaction to a bad-tempered 1-1 draw.

I was a little bit disappointed with us first half. We got wrapped

up in what seemed to be a game plan by Sunderland to unsettle us. Put

the attack in. Lee Cattermole set the scene for the game. I thought

it was ugly, if I am honest. Outstanding in the first half.

Having said this, we had a great chance in the second half to make

it 2-0. That would have been a long way back for Newcastle at that time.

One or two Newcastle players were quite lucky, especially. One of

their midfielders, I don't know how he managed to stay on the pitch for

the full 90 minutes. There was a lot of pressure on us

getting a result. The manager obviously understood that at half-

time. He mentioned that. He asked us to go out there and give

everything we had. It was strong, passionate,

vitriolic. It was all the things that you expect from a Derby of

this nature. In actual fact, during the course of the game, I was

actually enjoying it. We had words on the side. You know,

he is passionate for his team. I am passionate about my team. And it

spills over. It will not be carried on. We are two experienced

professionals. It will be dead and buried tonight as far as I am

concerned. By the way, Newcastle and

Sunderland fans, Shirt of Hurt is once again part of Sport Relief. If

you can stomach running a mile in the opposition's kit to raise money

for charity, then go to the BBC Sport Relief website. Lee, I think

we will stay clear of you and shirt swaps. For the purposes of this

programme, we will talk about the match. Eight yellows, two reds.

Ugly kick fest or maybe an example of a brilliantly passionate Derby?

I think that is harsh. I think that some players got some silly yellow

cards. Today's climate as well. With the challenges, you can

warrant yellow cards. You can only do certain things. But I have to

say, overall, there is no fan from either club that can be

disappointed with the commitment or passion of character of any player

on that pitch. The one marked during the game, obsessing on the

yellow card. That could have cost his team getting something from the

game. It could have cost something from the game. But it will cost in

terms of the three-match ban he has got. We will have a look at how it

fits into the UK derbies in terms of, well, let us be honest,

What is going through the players, Micky? What are you feeling as you

are out there? It must be impossible to isolate yourself from

the frenzy that is coming from the terraces. It is like Lee was saying.

When you go out on the pitch, you are playing in a big Derby game. It

is very fiery. Lee Cattermole set the standard straight away in the

first 40 seconds. And it was very fiery right throughout the game.

But a great game as well. Over the last four or five derbies, I do not

think Sunderland have really competed. They certainly did on

Sunday. It was a real good game. And we saw people coming together

off the pitch. There was the Sunderland fitness coach and the

Newcastle goalkeeper. And the two managers had that square up. Are we

supposed to condemn this or do we quite like this? Is this all part

of it? Because the cameras move in and the fans go crazy. We are

talking about them now. We are talking about the players and then

we are talking about two unbelievably experienced managers.

They have worked at the highest level for a long time. The passion

was running through them. I think that is great. In terms of the

people employing them and the supporters from their clubs seeing

that. These lads are not from the area, but they have shown their

hearts on their sleeve. They are ready to win for their club. I

think that both, over the course of after the game and press releases,

had said that they were maybe a bit over-zealous. And apologies for

that. But that is what the games do to you. It is about winning. I said

before the game when I was talking about it. It is not about

performances, it is about getting the result. And Martin O'Neill left

without, I think he got straight on the coach. We were speaking off air.

Lee, just before, about going into managers dressing rooms at the end

of the game for a drink. It is etiquette. Yes. I think quite a lot

of people do it. But it is not something that happens every week.

When you go to certain grounds, you may not see eye to eye with the

manager. I think Lee has had a couple of spats himself with

managers. Maybe the last thing you want to do is go and be in the

manager's dressing room at the end of the game. I get it. I understand.

If you have anything to say about the Derby or anything else that

takes your fancy, you can tweet and we are also on Facebook. The e-mail

address is [email protected]. And do not forget, Late Kick Off is on the

iPlayer all week. Still to come... The weekend's Football League

action. And marvellous Marvin, Boro's Dutch diamond, on finding

his feet at Boro. In recent years, football has made

huge strides in areas such as physical conditioning, diet and

nutrition. But this season, mental health has become a major concern.

A number of footballers have admitted to suffering from

depression. For many, it is caused by coming to terms with life after

their playing days are over. And from personal experience, former

Newcastle defender, Steve Howey, understands why it is such a

problem. In an exclusive interview, he has been speaking to Katie

Gornall. One day when you wake up, you just

think, what is the point of getting out of bed? There was a point when

I was really low. I could not find a way out.

The boy from Sunderland who became a legend in Newcastle.

The camaraderie that we had with the lads then. The way that we

played football. The ideas of how to win games. It was just

absolutely fantastic. I don't think, at that time, you get to grasp how

good a time it was. He was the defensive rock behind Kevin

Keegan's entertainers. An England international who later played for

Manchester City, Leicester and Bolton.

So how much of a struggle was it, when you had had those highs at

Newcastle United, to adapt to life after football? It is a huge shock

coming out of football. I think you do not realise how much you are

going to miss it. Because you are with the boys every day, you have

the huge highs of match days. And the huge lows of defeat as well.

But nothing prepares you at all for finishing football. I think,

initially, you have time on your own and you decide to play golf.

And you do that for a period of time. Eventually, it sinks in where

it does not give you the satisfaction that you feel you need.

You are used to that high and everything you could possibly want

to make you happy. Nothing then can supersede that. So you tend to find,

where you feel not part of it any more. Disjointed. And not really

contributing the way you thought that you were at the past.

All the sudden, you find yourself getting into the routine of getting

into bad habits. I think, personally, it is very easy of

getting into that mould of bad habits. It is so hard to get out of.

Before you realise it, you are thinking, what have I done here for

the last amount of weeks and months? I have done absolutely

nothing. I have not done anything which has contributed to the family

or contributed to my self-worth. Before you know it, you are in a

spot. You are looking at yourself and just thinking, this is going to

go two ways here. You are looking at something where, talk to

somebody, get some help. Or there is the other route. And we all know

what that one is. Thankfully, I did have people around us sort of

wanting us to get better. It is up to you then. You have to make the

choice. I was lucky enough with the infrastructure I had around me

helped me after I had got to the point where I said, enough is

enough. I need help. And I think that is... In some ways, that for

me is the best decision and best choice I have ever made.

Steve's life is back on track. I have kids that I absolutely adore.

And, for me, it was all about them. As well as, it was all about my

parents as well. I did not want them to have to suffer any more.

Now, personally and professionally, everything is going really, really

well. I have a great job. I have a great personal life now and things

are going from strength to strength. We have heard recently from Dean

Windass. He has been speaking very openly about the struggles he has

had with depression. What was your reaction when you heard about how a

friend had been going through that? I have supported him since. And he

is very low. He has also realised that he does need some help.

Thankfully, he is going to get that. After the death last year of Gary

Speed, the Professional Footballers' Association sent a

guide book to 50,000 ex-footballers with advice on mental health.

Personally, I think that, in football, which is still very much

an alpha male sport. These are young guys who are trained to the

absolute peak of physical perfection. They are expected to

perform all the time absolutely brilliantly and to show no cracks.

When those cracks or injuries are on the inside, or if they are

distressed emotionally or psychologically, it is not really

okay for them to express that a lot of the time. I think, when players

stop playing, there is just a huge void. Come mid-thirties, late

thirties, that is it. Game over. I guess nothing else can give players

the buzz that actually playing the game for real can give. And I think

that Steve's case is probably very common. I think we need to step up

some sort of action plan where we have something for players in

football, as well as out of Has it shock due to hear him

talking like that and is a typical of a lot of people at his age that

had come out of the game? shocked me hugely to see that

footage because I grew up with him. And he was a great lad, full of

life, a very, very good player. I have grown up with him and it was a

huge shock to the system, are seeing that. But is a typical, are

there lots out there? I would imagine, if they haven't anything

else to do. I was the manager when Dean's story broke so I was close

to that situation as well from the other side. Looking at Steve's

situation, Withdean having to do with the implications of his family

because I have was the manager of his football club where his son is

learning his trade. It must take at change of mind said Shirley,

because footballers liars obviously reached a peak in their early

thirties and then start to go down. How on earth do you replace that

bars, that camaraderie, that constant contact with team-mates

that you are seeing a close and personal all the time? You're

having such an laugh and that gets taken away. Nobody prepares you for

that. Then what you behind you is a strong family, it is so important.

I know Steve very well and it is shocking to see that, the way he is.

Now I think he is coming out the other side and is doing ever so

well but there are players out there who need to make that call.

We have had these high profile cases like the German keeper and

Dale Roberts and it has put a lot of focus on it. Would it not be

seen with players who are still actively as something that could be

exploited. Maybe the days of banter are gone but if it sneaked out,

then the opposition players have got a stick to beat you with, is it

a taboo subject? We can't let it be that situation because we have to

do with that here and now. We got to prepare the players for it.

Ultimately you cannot play on for ever and it is not the man in the

street who retires when he is 65. For footballers, it is 34. We got

to get them to do with it and educate them. I know everyone is

trying different schemes to educate players to go into college or do

journalism. It is tough because are you in the coaching game or the

management game? There are only so many jobs. The there are lots of

people very well qualified to be a coach or manager and haven't had a

job for a long time. It has been a revelation as to why so many of you

go into management and some people stick to really tough jobs. If

somebody had come to you, a team- mate and said, I like this, how

would you have dealt with it? wouldn't have come to me! When you

see these players, for them to come out and the first person to go and

see is the merger and said, I need to speak to somebody. I don't think

it would come from another player. Again, the P F A B need to do

something about it when the players are still playing and give them the

opportunity to make the call. you struggle? No, I think I was

pretty fortunate. I was doing radio and this kind of stuff and I really

enjoyed that. So this is an acceptable alternative? It is the

days you're not doing anything, it must be very tough and some days

you do find it hard but you just got to keep smiling. You suddenly

find yourself in this position, are suddenly, from 24/7 well? I have

come through it now. We saw each other a couple of weeks ago and it

wasn't the best period for us but now I am focused on the next

chapter and the next position I take. I'm energised and ready for

it but as you say, to go from 24/7 to nothing, I'm just asking

somebody to ring me up to me to my phone keeps ringing go. I am going

to treat your phone number of people will be ringing you all the

time! The first of all this is that three days after you get the sack,

you get nominated the Football League's managerial achievement of

the Year award for 43 regular league games without defeat. You

don't need to say anything, I think I have said her it all. Holland

beat England at Wembley last week and there's a young Dutchman who

has been enjoying himself on these shores all season. Marvin Emnes is

Middlesbrough's top scorer. His goal at Portsmouth on Saturday

taking his tally to 15. But at one point, it looked like he had no

future at the Riverside when former manager Gordon Strachan didn't even

give him a squad number. He was a real talent, a real

special talent. You were born in Rotterdam, quite a tough city, what

do you early years like? It is OK if you were from their good it is

dangerous and if you get yourself The manager who signed you was

Gareth Southgate, was there anything about him that impressed

you that made you think, this is the right guy to play for? Before I

signed, I had a chat with Gareth circuit. He told me a little bit

about Middlesbrough go go and how things were going on here. I had a

good feeling about it. I thought I would give it a try. Gareth

Southgate loses his job and you have a new manager in the shape of

Gordon Strachan. Is it fair to say it didn't work out? No, it didn't

work out at all. A different manager, different rules and

different things. It was a hard time for me again because I was not

involved in his squad. There were always things going on in your head

You went to Swansea on loan and it just took off there, you had a

great time? Swansea is a great club. The manager is great and the

players are great so I had a good feeling again. It didn't last too

long, you spell at Swansea. You had a new manager at Mott Middlesbrough

and he was keen to get you back? Yes, I heard I had to come back and

I thought, I am going to try out again. An emotionally attached

player, he needs to be feeling good. We are coming up to that stage of

the season where the table is starting to take ship, where can

this team go? The Premier League. If we keep winning games, obviously

there is a chance for us to go up. Go that's what we want to do. It is

time to go up a flower and play for something else.

Tell me this, how can one manager, Gordon Strachan, not a route that

player at all, though not include him at all and the next manager

comes in and puts him at the central plank of his team. It makes

no sense. As long is not a personal opinion, he is just making an

opinion about the player and what he does on the pitch. Tony said

that he is an emotional guy and a confident guy so you have to treat

him... This is the management game now. It is about treating the

individual. He found the net at the weekend. Points that could mean

nothing if a Portsmouth goes bust. Their record would be expunged and

The Championship tucked into chaos. Just when they seem to be her topic

of the Pearce, back they come again with a victory. Still a tough place

to go to. It certainly is. I have had a couple of beatings there

myself as a player. He is a good player and a really do like him. He

is very direct, he gets goals and it was a good result for

Middlesbrough at the weekend. They are getting themselves back up

there. He has to really nice feet on him and he knows whether back of

the lettuce. The only thing that might be concerning his the

disciplinary record, a 6 Yellow Red cards and four in the last six

games. Something they will have to watch. They don't have the biggest

squad in the world as well. Coalisland Hartlepool also both in

action. I'm assuming that you feel at the top five in League One is

taken care of but to do either of these two stand a possibility of

making it into the play-offs? think they do, I think can have a

very good chance. What they have to do is get more When's away from

home. A have not lost at home since 10th September. The they got a

chance. Hartlepool are on a run as well. Why are Caroline so bad away,

what is in their mind set? I'm not too sure, to be honest. This will

play the same game are planned as at home. I have seen them on

numerous occasions and they're very good and they have option in the

diamond and they do it very well. I think Greg will be looking to get a

few more winds away from home, will keep the home form going and there

were other good chance. Not bad when you are up against MK Dons who

are right up there. A very good performance. I saw a few headers at

the weekend. A good performance from them and they're starting to

climb up that League again where they wear at the beginning of the

season. They could be in with a chance if you are there or

thereabouts. Was your assessment? Yes, a strong side. We went up

there and got as 0-0 draw. They were tough to beat at home but they

have got to get winds as well. But they need to have around but they

have some tough fixtures. Have you had any little Smith's have

anything? Not too much, obviously go they have had our advisers and

people talk to them. They get the right job and we will go and do it.

Good will obviously pick up a little bit, there will be staff

that will come up but we knew we to the summer? I don't know, for me it