11/03/2018 MOTD2 Extra

Hello and welcome to Match of the

Day to extra on BBC Two, five Live,

the BBC sport website, app and on

the iPlayer. Joining the art,

Arsenal and England defender Martin

Keown, former Manchester City

defender and Carlisle manager Keith

Curle and Chief sports writer of the

Daily Mirror Andy Dunne. You can get

in touch across social media and

text us as well. These are the

subjects we will be discussing the

next 45 minutes, obviously the

scenes at the London Stadium with

pitch invasions and fans protesting

as West Ham lost 3-0 at home to

Burnley. We will talk about I'm

Every Woman beating Liverpool with

two goals from Marcus Rashford.

Mauricio Pellegrino questioned the

spirit of south London after they

lost at Newcastle and they are just

a point above the relegation zone

and we will have the team news from

the Emirates as well from the first

game with Arsenal at home to

Watford. The back pages dominated by

events at West Ham, Anarchy is the

headline in the Sunday Mirror. The

Mail on Sunday has hammers day of

shame. They say games to be played

behind closed doors.

behind closed doors. -- could be

played. We will hear from Mark Noble

shortly but what are your views on

what happened?

With what happened

yesterday, what was sad about it in

a way, was that it was predictable.

If we have heard one word about the

atmosphere at the London Stadium it

has been toxic, that is the word we

keep hearing. I think it is the

culmination of a combination of

things that has led to this which

had its roots, whatever the owners

say, in the stadium move. However

they dress it up it was a piece of

commercial opportunism. Bit of.

Fine, you go to the stadium and it's

not a football stadium -- that's

fine. To overcome those things and

get over those things and put those

to the back of the minds of

supporters you need a winning team

that is exciting and challenging in

the top half of the league and they

don't have that. Throw in the fact,

and I am sure this is only a minor

part in the week they announced they

made a profit of £43 million, and it

is a cocktail of things that leads

to the unrest. As to what happened,

there are logistical things that

need addressing the stewarding, the

FA will look into it, it is alarming

how easily they got onto the pitch

and how they could surround the

directors box, all of these things

need to be addressed. Going back to

it, it has been brewing for a long

time.

time.

On the football perspective,

teeth, they were 1-0 down when the

first pitch invasions

first pitch invasions happened --

Keith. Before we come back to the

club as a whole, can you put part of

the blame of the defeat on the pitch

invasions and everybody losing

concentration?

I think it is about

distractions, what is going on in

the stadium, if it affects you as a

player and manager and coach and it

will, especially with the pitch

invasion. Can it get used as an

excuse? I don't think so. As a

manager, distractions go on every

day in football and you have to keep

your focus. I think David Moyes, he

said for periods within the game he

was pleased with their performance.

But obviously conceding three goals,

he will not be happy and the

distractions are difficult.

Would

you have been worried for your

personal safety if you had been on

that pitch as a player?

No, it was

not enough...

It only takes one.

It

does and I can understand Mark Noble

reacting the way he did but I would

say this to West Ham fans, when you

went there as a player, Upton Park

was very different, but they were

the 12th man. That dislike of the

opposition, it is now being pumped

to their own club and it's a

disaster waiting to happen. It does

not reflect very well on the Premier

League how they are able to get such

easy access to the pitch, that is

ridiculous and they should be in a

lot of trouble for that in this day

and age, it's not right they can do

that. It's not the best place to

watch football, we know that, but

this is turning the gun on

themselves. The team is trying to

play in that toxic atmosphere and

they capitulated. It had to be the

fans that affected them on the day.

But if you are so dissatisfied as

groups of fans, and that all sorts

of different groups of fans in this

protest as well, but if you're

dissatisfied as a group, with the

ownership, the way the club is run,

with what has happened, then moving

and everything else, is it worth, to

use your phrase turning the gun on

yourself, to try to get a different

ownership?

They feel it is but it

could end up with them being

relegated. All of the other teams

down there will have the support,

generally people are behind you.

Stay in the Premier League, sort out

the problems, I think David Moyes is

done a good job to be honest, until

recently when it has gone bad for

him. But let them play and get on

with it and be united. They are

divided at the moment.

They brought

in David Moyes to stay in the

Premier League and he has a proven

record, nine years in the top ten at

Everton. A proven Premier League

manager. They're giving him a short

contract and I don't think that has

helped. If he wants to attract

players in the transfer windows and

things like that, big-money signings

aren't going to come to a club that

has a manager in place for six

months.

This is the point, the

stadium move to be sold to fans

because they did not want to move.

You have to sell it to them as it's

not just this great opportunity that

we can't turn down to move into a

massive stadium for what amounts to

a peppercorn rent, you had to sell

it to them. The way it was sold to

them was that the move would

facilitate a team that was not in a

survival battle and would go to the

next level and be able to attract

the big players. And it happened,

they could not even keep Dimitri

Payet will stop it is symptomatic.

You're not attracting top players or

they're not going for them and are

not spending that amount of money.

If the fans feel they have been sold

that idea, that this is what the

move will do, moving to the next

level, they are now West Ham London

as it is in the badge, bigger and

better.

The playing side is so very

different to now, it is so intense

at Upton Park and the football was

so quick. They had a good season in

the last one and did well but the

transition to the new home, it's not

their home, it doesn't feel like it.

There is so much space. They can

lose by a lot of goals when it goes

wrong for them and it seems the

wheels come off. They have not bound

a way to play the right football on

that pitch -- found a way.

From the

perspective of the fans, it is not

just the experience of watching the

game in the stadium, it is

everything else that builds up to

watching it. It is going to the pub

you always go to, the cafe, walking

down the same roads, and if you walk

to a game at the London Stadium, it

is the most soulless experience you

could possibly have. I said last

week I loved going to West Ham, when

I'd said that I meant I used to love

going to Upton Park because the buzz

was amazing but it is soulless going

to the London Stadium.

We played at

Upton Park, and the experience as a

player started going through the

roads on the coach. It was an

intimidating place to go to and the

crowd were that close.

You could

smell the pie and mash and see the

guys in the pubs.

There is no

getting away from the fact that a

winning team would mask a lot of

problems, you might complain that

much if the teams were turning big

teams over. The walk back through

the shopping centre would not be too

bad, you might pop into a popular

retail store! That would mask a lot

but I understand what you're saying.

It is almost a lesson that other

clubs could look at. The automatic

thing is that we must move stadiums,

Everton are in this situation. I

think it slightly different, I don't

know if Everton fans see that,

Goodison Park, with the same

affection that West Ham fans saw

Upton Park, maybe they do. But they

have to be very careful of what

you're moving to.

John says West Ham

fans should be embarrassed about

behaviour, it is appalling, many

teams have gone through worse times

and I hope they go down. James says

that for people to call our fans a

disgrace they don't understand the

context of what has been happening

at West Ham, it has been building a

long time to the light from the

board the lack of investment and

planning in the team, the traditions

of what was a family event club have

been taken away, today we have

reached the limit. This was Mark

Noble.

The atmosphere was horrible.

Obviously we had fans running on the

pitch. To be honest, we know a lot

of it isn't aimed at the players. It

is other reasons. But we have to be

men enough to be able to play in

that atmosphere. It's hard, don't

get me wrong, especially when you've

got 50, 60,000 hip and a big

percentage of them are not happy

with how the club is -- 60,000 here.

The players take the brunt of it.

Listen, they are true, honest,

passionate bunch of people, I know

that, I've played in front of them

for 15 years. I'm hoping to date

that they've had that outburst,

hopefully, because all that matters

really is staying in the Premier

League for us.

There are all sorts

of things you feel the need managing

at West Ham, one of them is the

relationship between fans and the

club and that is no different to any

manager or club in any community.

Definitely.

But the manager and

players have to play a part.

When I

first went to Carlisle at a manager

there were banners everywhere, board

of the board, they wanted new

investment, but I was made aware of

that with the owners and the

chairman in the interviews -- bored

of the board. I had to communicate

to the supporters and get the

message and the focus from the

directors box onto the pitch. We

were in a relegation fight on the

back end of a relegation.

Everybody's talking about the owners

after the games and investment. I

did a lot of work in the local

media, getting the focus back on to

the football.

Was it a long process?

We won the first three games, and

after that people were walking away

from Brunton Park talking about

surviving. But we lost the next

couple and there is soon a bit of

unrest and negativity and people are

talking again about the ownership

and that they were letting me down.

My job as the manager was to go out

and say no, the football department

will take care of results. I had to

make sure I did not get involved in

politics because that was ongoing

and they are still ongoing in some

departments. But it is about

communicating. The stakeholders, the

owners, the manager communicating

with the supporters and not getting

involved too much in the politics.

And by the way, Rangers have just

gone 2-1 up in the Old Firm. That is

at Ibrox, almost half an hour gone.

The communication at West Ham is a

problem as well.

It is, it could be,

it can be a positive or negative. If

you are getting a running commentary

from your owners, like you do on

social media...

And their family

members.

Do you commend them for

saying, it is good that supporters

can have that direct interaction

with the owners? If you are at

Manchester United or Chelsea or

whatever, you don't have Roman

Abramovich tweeting. And some fans

will like it. But when it's going

wrong and David Sullivan says, I

think it was in the case of Slaven

Bilic, I offered him Renato Sanches

and Krychowiak, it's a bit much

information.

There is no at times.

And what type of players and by --

there is no decorum at times. But if

it goes well they will be held up as

owners communicating with France.

Their next home game is against

Southampton.

And Manchester United

they play as well. They have to get

together at the club, communication

is important. These supporters have

to get behind them and put the

energy behind the team.

The message

has to come out the club, this year

is about survival and they that by

getting results. With supporters

coming on the pitch, no matter what

happens, that cannot happen.

The

irony of the situation will be, with

fans chanting to sack the board, who

does that? The board can't sack

themselves.

The interesting thing on

that, we had this discussion a

couple of times, like when people

say to sack the manager, you don't

then go, who do you want to come in?

That is even harder when you're

looking at ownership competitive

managers.

managers.

Presumably the chain of

events would be that Sullivan and

gold get so fed up that they put the

club up for sale but the irony of

that, assuming they stay in the

Premier League, they would end up

making an awful lot of money. If

they sold the club. If they said

we've had enough. I am not sure the

fans would be too bothered, if the

majority want them out but that

would be the irony, that moving into

this stadium going forward the club

is worth more money than it was.

Should they stay away from the home

games, the owners?

We had it with my chairman at

Carlisle and a couple of the owners,

it went a bit low profile but the

chairman was 81 years old, a

chairman for 57 years and seen the

good times and badges. He comes to

every single home game and away game

and he travels miles. His and

passion for the club is

unquestionable. And you get a small

minority of people turning around,

shouting, sack the board! He is a

brave man because he will turn up

because of his principles and what

he wants for the club and sometimes

you go through transitional periods

where you have to stick together as

a football club. He doesn't ever

push me out as well.

If they went,

and the club was sold, the

commercial opportunities and

opportunism he spoke about would get

even worse, would it?

even worse, would it?

No, it would,

in a way, they have capitalised on

it. I think it would be valued now

going forward, I don't think

someone, given, they would see it as

a good investment. But it wouldn't

be the sort of investment it was, it

has turned out to be for these guys

and that is the problem. A lot of --

fans can profess about having the

club at Hearts and they might well

do, who we to say they have not? But

from a business and commercial and

opportunistic and financial sense,

it is a great deal for them.

How do

you think West Ham will be punished?

On this occasion, and would have

thought a suspended fine and a

suspended part ground closure, a

foreclosure will not happen. And

they will be asked to explain what

went wrong with stewarding. I think

a suspended fine and may be part

ground closure.

Is this different

what happened at West Ham, is this

different to the pitch invasion at

the end of Wigan and Manchester City

at the end of the FA Cup?

Well, yes.

Why? We would going on to celebrate

an incredible result.

But players

safety was more compromised, you

could argue, at Wigan rather than

West Ham.

You could argue, but from

time to time over the years, we have

seen supporters coming onto the

pitch because of a joyous occasion

and they were celebrating that. You

are hoping, OK, there was an

incident with Aguero and that was

unfortunate. This is different, it

is fans wanting to vent their anger

and it is almost like a symbolism of

how bad the club is at the moment

and how divided it is and that is a

huge noise they are making. They

decided to do this because they have

not been listened to by the owners.

I wonder what you can have one rule

for one pitch invasion and another

for another?

Like Mike said, at the

end of the season, and of Cup games,

people get overenthusiastic. But I

think the easy way is, you are not

allowed on the pitch.

They are not

doing that during the FA Cup.

If you want to get in touch, let's

know. Arsenal versus Amrit of the

first game this Sunday afternoon,

John Watson has the team news. --

versus Sunderland.

Six changes for Arsenal following

the AC Milan game on Sunday. Niles

replacing chambers, holding in the

middle replacing Koscielny.

middle replacing Koscielny. And

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang replacing

well back. Ramsey and Wilts may have

been left out with Arsene Wenger's

mind on the second leg against AC

Milan on Thursday. Ramires plays at

right back for Watford. A new face

on the bench, Jerome Sinclair, a

young English striker who Watford

signed from Liverpool.

1:30pm kick-off at the Emirates,

Martin, Keith and Andy in the

studio. Do you think Arsene Wenger

is prioritising the rope a league?

100%. Understandably so? Of course,

that is how he works at holding onto

his job, is that bigger problem. The

AC Milan was quite refreshing to see

them play, he talked about being

pragmatic but he was returning to

his philosophy because he played

Ramsey and Wilshere together

honourably for only the second time

in five years. And that was only --

a very attacking performance and

they rekindled their confidence

overnight. A lot of changes today,

Troy Deeney was a player in the

dugout after their last win, the

players, saying they did not

players, saying they did not have

any cojones.. Interesting to see

that rings true. I would be looking

for him going into today.

I don't

doubt that for one minute. Would you

be using that to inspire your team

if an opponent said that against you

earlier?

Yes. It would be a

newspaper cutting on the changing

room wall. You use anything as a

manager and coach to give your team

extra spark. Going back to Arsenal

with the win midweek. He needed a

win in any competition. How he has

handled the media, the press, the

negative press he has been getting.

I watch his interviews and he is a

man under pressure. How you has

handled it and himself under

pressure is excellent. As a manager,

I have a lot of respect and a lot of

time for him.

When you study his

interviews, what you like about

them, in the sense that he does not

rise to anything? It is the same

demeanour?

Yes, he has a level of

consistency about him. Some of the

questions from the media and the

reporters, you think, that is

naughty. I get it, my local press,

some questions, I am like, I don't

like that. And I usually go off on a

tangent and give an answer about

eight minutes long and don't reply

to the question. Keith, meet Martin!

But how he has handled the press and

the situation, a lot of credit to

him.

As a former player, it is very

difficult to talk about coach macro

because he is probably the best

manager I have ever worked for and

there has been a decline, without

doubt, but obviously, you are loyal

to him, but you have a

responsibility to say what you see.

And things have not gone as he would

have liked. But the way he handles

those questions, he just remains

remarkably consistent because that

his out he is, remarkably stable.

The team is not performing the ship,

but he will see it as a lifeline,

the Europa League, because he is a

survivor. He survives and it would

not surprise me if he got through

and Atletico Madrid will probably

have something to say about that and

he has not got past Milan but that

is what he's clinging to. Today is

not a sideshow but he is the team,

he has made changes because of

Milan.

Keith is saying about the

curveball questions and how he

handles those, he has been doing

this for over two decades. Just as a

sideline to the relationship the

press have with him, I cannot

remember him ever dodging the

question or an interview, ever

dodging a press conference and not

turning up for a press conference,

ever banning an individual

journalist. We know managers who

have banned journalists, every other

week. He has never banned individual

journalists. But he has never

developed any relationships with

journalists. You would get managers

who have their favourites

journalists. So it is very

intriguing. He is not beholden to

anyone. He maintains that sort of

detachment from us and I think

that... Really important, don't you

think? It is important. But you then

get, if a manager does have certain

relationships with certain

journalists, we would like to think

we would not be influenced by that.

But we could not sit here and say,

we are not going to look on the

positive side of things if we have a

good relationship with that manager.

This week, he said something very

interesting, that he does not take

anything personal. It is not a

personal attack on me, it is an

attack on my performances and my

results. He separates himself almost

so he can step back. If you take

things personally, you react to

them.

Is that just because of the

results or because of the fact every

time he picks up a newspaper or he

watches people on television or the

radio, they are calling for him

basically to be sacked, basically.

We all have to live with that.

At no

point, he has questioned whether he

has still got it any more, he still

believes in himself, he has to do

that first. He keeps himself stable.

The first hour of the day is for

him, he exercises and focuses for

the day and the rest of the day is

for everyone else and he has to be

in the position as a manager, it is

something I have never done, you

understand it.

Do you lead and do

you listen and maybe when, it is it

more of a bubble in Carlisle? Or do

you not look at the local paper or

listen to the radio?

If we won, I

look at the paper. If we have lost,

I stay awake and I don't switch the

radio on or go to the club's

website, I stay away from

negativity.

Is that hard to do as a

manager?

Yes. Because we lose games.

The thing I do as a manager, I

protect my players. If we have

negative results, it is all about me

and I have said it in the local

press. When we are winning, I share

the success with everybody involved

in the club that helps us get

results, I share that. When we lose,

blame me. If you go two goals down,

I want to be the focal point. If

there is any disgruntlement in the

crowd, focus it on me. I need my

players to perform. The environment

they are playing in now is not

conducive to players going out and

expressing themselves.

Have you

always done that in your managerial

career or have you learned to

experience to do that? And how

mentally difficult is that?

I was

lucky, I worked with Neil Warnock.

He is a character, he goes into the

grounds and before a ball has been

kicked, he is getting abuse. But he

enjoys it. The abuse from the way

supporters, not his own! One thing I

picked up from him was if things are

not going well for your team, make

sure you are the focal point because

you need your players to turn

results round and the only way to

get results is if your players

perform.

Then you stood out in the

technical area and getting stick and

abuse from your own fans and you are

2-0 down. Then you are wanting, you

are trying to concentrate on what is

in front of you and maybe make

changes.

I don't listen to anybody.

Visually, I am the focal point. Some

managers, a goal goes against them

and they go further back in the

dugout, you want to shield yourself.

You have got to be the shield for

the players. Go even further out.

Invariably, I don't listen to the

supporters.

As a player, you want to

play for a manager that is

protecting you. You never heard so

Alex Ferguson having a go at his

players publicly. You do not hear

Wenger. In 21 years, I never

remember the Crewe on having a go at

his players, so you give extra for

those type of managers.

You mean in

private and public?

Particularly in

public because it becomes an us and

then situation and you need to be

together and a manager has to take

that responsibility, and went

manager steps forward to do that,

you try that bit harder for that

manager.

But if you go back to Andy

saying he is not sleeping, if you

are in private and away from the

public criticism, do you sit with a

Cup of tea and wonder what you are

doing?

No, I have got belief in the

players I signed because since I

have been there, I have got one

player from the old regime, but the

players I brought in at Carlisle, I

have put them in and for a reason.

Sleepless nights when you get

beaten, the worst time is the drive

home after the game. I live in

Sheffield so the drive back from

Carlisle, I relive all the way, so I

get three hours to get that out of

my system and I going and I don't

speak to the kids or the girlfriend

and it is one of those. It doesn't

come out until I am back in training

on Monday and then I let the result

go. Does it affect you? Yes, of

does. I needed to change my own

personal balance. I needed a level

of consistency as an individual

because I had it as an assistant

manager and I went back to QPR with

migratory and I wanted to go again

and be a manager and work on my own.

And to do that, I knew that I needed

to be different so I gave up

drinking and I have a level of

consistency about me and it has

helped me as an individual to deal

so I don't get too high if we win

again. I don't get as low as I did

when I had had a drink before.

If

you look at what they are doing in

the Premier League and I have spoken

to other managers about this, if you

are right at the top in the Premier

League, especially with European

competitions, you could do six press

conferences a week at least.

Probably more talking to the media

post match and pre-match.

These

young managers, young and

impressionable young men, they need

to be stable. He has to live his

life as he expects the players to

lead Bears and why not? That is

always what Wenger taught me the

most and I still stick to things in

my life taught to me by him because

he has created that habit and

behaviour with people because he

does it from a stable base and it

sounds like he is doing the same at

Carlisle. They respect you more for

that. If you are not stable, you are

erratic with your decision making

and what you say and not consistent

in your behaviour and it is very

difficult to play-by-play who is not

consistent and rants and raves and

he is calm the next day.

But when everybody wants a piece of

you, 17, 18 hours a day!

I must say

I enjoyed the press Conference we

have at Carlisle. It's not the

Premier League, but I've never

refused the press. We'd been on some

bad runs when you're thinking, I

don't want to do them. The press

officer will drag me out of the

office and say it has to be done. I

get on well with my local press,

Mike Sherman hates them! -- my

chairman hate them! But I've got a

duty to the team and the

supporters...

I've got a good friend

a Carlisle fan who are bullied you

didn't beat Wycombe Wanderers! --

who can't believe.

We were cruising

and the next thing we got beat 4-3.

Do you do the press straight after?

Straight after, five minutes later

do UCD press? That is when we like

to see managers. There was this

thing about ten years ago that

managers would have an hour to cool

off. By then they were all sensible!

You want them coming in and you want

the emotions.

I'm slightly lucky

because of the location. The local

paper and radio are Carlisle fans as

well. But they have a job to do as

well. In your mind you're thinking

you're flying high and I can say

this and that and it all changes in

two minutes. Ten minutes later I

have to speak to the press. And they

open with, what happened there?

Celtic have equalised at Ibrox on

the stroke of half-time through

Mousa Dembele. Let's talk about

Manchester United against Liverpool

at Old Trafford yesterday. Jose

Mourinho said afterwards after the

two goals from Marcus Rashford, he

said he spoke with Gareth Southgate,

he said it does not matter if he

plays or not, he trusts the kid and

the kid goes to the World Cup so he

didn't need to impress. Gareth

Southgate was at Old Trafford

yesterday. Was Rashford the story?

One of them. And he was the story

when we picked up the team sheet. No

matter what Gareth has said to Jose,

he had not started since Boxing Day.

And a variety of reasons he is the

story come including this idea that

when Jose came, how would the

younger players develop? Does he

trust them? The kids who have come

through the Academy? We've been

looking at it, he bought Sanchez,

Rashford has played plenty of

football this season, and you get

the team sheet and he is playing and

he does what he does. From an

England point of view, I think it's

right, he was always going to go.

Mainly because he has the pace as a

surprise element and Gareth

Southgate isn't blessed with a whole

lot of options up front when you've

ticked off Harry Kane and Jamie

Vardy. The rest is much as we will

see when the squad is announced on

Thursday for the friendlies against

Holland and Italy. On a lot of

levels it was the story. And from a

united point of view, can he get him

in to start more often?

I think what

he did do yesterday underlined how

good he is. He has been out for a

long time. He is a special talent,

no doubt, and I like it that

Southgate has said he will play

because he has too. We assume Kane

down the middle, Sterling on the

right and Rashford on the left, that

is an effective front three. I think

he is well balanced and looked after

in the club and has not lost any of

his confidence. Maybe he was trying

a bit too hard, just majority, there

seem to be more composure yesterday,

the finishes were outstanding. He

has to play now. Martial injured and

Sanchez loss of form is the only

reason he played.

He also has to get

used to the fact that in some games,

like yesterday, it sounds strange,

but apart from the two goals he was

playing as a second left-back a lot

of the time, covering the runs at

Alexander-Arnold rather than the

other way round. He scored from

those two, what United saw as the

weakness, the flick on and that

danger but apart from that, he will

have to have a lot of defensive

discipline under any Jose Mourinho

team.

But he is still learning and

lung and developing -- the young and

developing.

Young players come in

and out of possession, you get the

flair players and matchwinners, out

possession you have a job,

especially at Man United with Jose

Mourinho. It is having that

understanding and mentality and

maturity to do it naturally as well

and it does not come naturally to

young players, chasing people back.

They always want to go that way. You

have to be in position.

And we can't

say he is going to be tired, we want

people who are fresh in the team. He

has been well looked after. Martial

has been used. But he is a huge

talent. You can see them coming

along very rarely come at the top

players, and I think he's in that

category.

This is a leading question

because it is obviously in the

discussion of Manchester United and

Liverpool but if you pick an England

left-back at the moment who is it?

Good question, I would always go for

Rose because I think Pochettino has

decided this season that he is the

one who stepped out of line and does

not want to sort out his contract.

Like Kyle Walker last year. It is

not his ability, he should be

playing, and Pochettino has that his

nose off to spite his face.

He has

got Ben Davies as well.

I think

small mistakes.

small mistakes. I think on that side

there are issues but that is the

decision for the manager. I commend

him for that because he wants the

loyalty and the Spurs players to

stick together and anybody who shows

signs of going is not going to play

and that is what has happened to

Danny Rose.

Danny Rose. But yesterday Ashley

Young played exceptionally well. It

is interesting how a player so old

can go to full-back and do it so

well. Salah was in his pocket.

Sometimes it is easier to keep

playing in front of you will stop he

did not look out of place.

What is

remarkable about Ashley Young,

considering he's a converted

full-back and not a natural, out of

all of them he's the best defender.

Out of all of the contenders?

Danny

Rose, Ryan Bertrand, Ashley Young, I

think he is the most accomplished

defender yet what we would call the

least natural full-back. The one I

would start is the best defender.

England have been undone so many

times by taking full-backs who can

attack and that has become the

modern vogue. I want the best

defender, who is going to see that

somebody is in trouble. Remember the

goal against Italy, it was going to

go over the head of Cahill and the

full-back can see it and is not

covering. I want the equivalent of

Ashley Cole whose first priority is

to cover his centre-backs, track the

runs like Dybala for Juventus, the

best defender for a change, not the

one who can run at Kyle Walker speed

and about 60 yards in 60 seconds --

in six seconds and cross it.

We're

waiting to see what system he will

play, if he plays three at the back

or five and who are the central

defenders. What has happened to

them? Harry Maguire looks the best

and was not even playing for England

this time last year. Cahill not

playing, Stones...

playing, Stones...

Maguire and

Tarkowski are the ones playing

readily and well.

I've got to say, I

saw him at Sheffield United, if

someone said he was an England

content and international, at the

time I would have disagreed. I

thought he lacked pace and mobility.

Can handle the ball and step in. I

was worried he could never catch up

play but here's a footballing brain.

So do you think he is reading the

game better than he was when you had

him at Sheffield United?

I never had

Harry, but is reading is excellent,

he does not get caught out and does

not get involved in races. Going

back to my era people used to say

that Steve Bruce lacked pace but he

never got involved in races.

Never

got an England cap.

You have written

today about the problems with the

England defence.

With John Stones in

particular. This shows how

international football can change

but three or four months ago at the

last England get-together John

Stones came into one of the press

conferences and we thought he would

be named England captain but he

wasn't at it happened. Within the

camp it was clear that Southgate

regards him at the feud of his

central defence.

Does it matter he's

not playing readily?

If it does.

Because in his case he has to be a

confidence player -- yes, it does.

Did he look confident against Basel

the other night? Against Wigan when

he played?

We are saying City are

one of the best teams we have seen,

and as with Rashford it is a

difficult situation. Can we just

discovered people because they're

not playing? In an ideal situation

you want him to be playing.

But will

he be worried that he can't get

ahead of, with respect, Otamendi,

Laporte and Kompany? We are saying

he is one of the best centre halves

in the world.

He clearly isn't

because he is behind. He is fourth,

fifth in line at his own club. There

is the goalkeeping situation, a

whole catalogue of problems for

Gareth Southgate to work through.

The fund three is pretty simple but

the back of the team is a problem --

at the front three.

I want to end

with Jan Vertonghen who is in a lot

of the papers, Spurs against

Bournemouth later this afternoon, he

talks in his interview about how he

think it is more important, trophies

are more special if you grow as a

team together and eventually win one

rather than going and joining a club

and immediately winning a trophy.

Does it make sense?

It makes sense

from a player 's point of view. The

unity within a changing room, when

you get the dynamics, the

characters, and that bond, there is

nothing better than being successful

and winning a trophy rather than

being a team that goes out and buys

marquee signings to win them.

It

means a whole lot more, there is no

doubt...

To win a trophy with your

mates.

I found myself in the

situation, 98 and 99, Manchester

United winning everything and you go

barren years, losing the cup final

to Liverpool, and in 2002 you win

again and I could tell you now it

tastes really good. You look around

the group and you think, we did that

together, fellas. You didn't just

turn up midway through. He's right,

they should stick together, those

Tottenham players, and I feel is

quite a special group and I feel

they're unlucky. The minute things

cost you at the top level. The

Champions League, you have to learn

the hard way.

Bournemouth against

Spurs is 4pm, Arsenal against

Watford before that, both games on

five Live this afternoon. Nathan

says, insightful stuff from Keith

Curle, the application and

professionalism he has shown at

Carlisle has been exceptional.

Apologies to Southampton fans, we

have not had time to talk about your

club. I would imagine that is a

relief at the moment! Thank you, see

you on Match of the Day to later.