17/01/2016 MOTD2 Extra

Good afternoon, welcome to Match of the Day 2 Extra on BBC Two,

Joining me today - Everton midfielder

Leon Osman; John Cross, the chief football writer

at the Daily Mirror and former Huddersfield boss Chris Powell.

Use the hashtag #bbcfootball on social media, or text 85058

On the following subjects, with Leicester back on top of the Premier

League despite only drawing with bottom club Aston Villa. Manchester

City hot on their heels after beating Crystal Palace. Newcastle

out of the bottom three thanks to new signing Jonjo Shelvey. And there

was a controversial finale at Stamford Bridge as Chelsea drew with

Everton. Roberto Martinez features alongside

Stuart Broad on most of the back 'Robbed' say the Sunday Mirror

with Martinez branding Mike Jones as "diabolical" for allowing

John Terry's 98th minute equaliser - you can also see Arsene Wenger

claiming he gets more abuse off The Independent on Sunday say that

David De Gea is still a target for Real Madrid despite

their transfer ban. And the Sun on Sunday suggest

that Mourinho thinks that the Manchester United job

is his for the taking. We are going to start with Everton's

draw at Chelsea, which Leon Osman cannot wait to talk about. Before we

hear from him let's hear from both managers starting with Roberto

Martinez. What is your reaction to the end of

that game? It is anger, pure anger, you cannot

describe it in any other way, there are two macro aspects, one is the

performance we had, and we were part of an exciting game of football

between two teams that produced an incredible performance, once we got

the 2-goal lead it became a little bit too open, but Chelsea have the

quality to get back into the game. Sometimes it's in your favour and

other times it is damaging. But to be honest it was offside because

Oscar touched the ball and although John did it technically perfect it

was offside, to be honest. Is not down to answer of opinion, or

a decision from referees, it's a clear-cut offside that should have

been spotted and then to make it even worse is it was 50 seconds well

over the time. It's just something that is not good enough. We played

on Wednesday, the demands on the players are huge. When you are

producing levels of performances that go accordingly with being the

best league in world football, trouble breathing referee today and

the structure of Howard the scoreline ended up is unacceptable

and is very hurtful for everyone connected to our football club.

Of all the days to be booked to do this show, Leon Osman.

Of all the days to be booked to do this show, Leon Let's stay away from

the controversial end at the moment. The mood on the way home when you

were on the train was what? Disappointment, to have gone to

Stamford Bridge and read the game twice, and to come away with a draw

through no fault of our own really, was upsetting. It was a

disappointing journey was upsetting. It was a

What positives can you take from it? I think the way we played and the

way we took it to Chelsea and we went toe to toe with them and we

were deservedly in front on more than one occasion. So, the way we

played in the game is certainly a positive.

Chris Powell, when you see another manager in a post match interview

like that, Roberto Martinez first of all, there was obviously a lot of

anger. Do you think part of the anger was at letting the lead slip

twice being 2-0 up and then 3-2 up? We will come onto the ending in a

minute but part of the anger must have been at his own team, maybe?

A touch of it, of course club because they were in such a good

position away from home at last season's champions. I'm sure at 2-0

up he is thinking we are in a great position, second-half, maybe only

half an hour to go, but then Chelsea got two in two minutes. And then all

of a sudden the emotions change. Are we going to hang on? Are Chelsea

going to make a great comeback? Then they scored in the 90th minute, and

every manager would feel it is kind to be their day. At 98 minutes, when

I spoke to Leon Osman off air, he said it was seven or eight minutes

you feel that the anger shifted to the referee and the assistant

referee. And yet, when we look at the amount

of time added on its always a minimum of whatever number goes on

that board. Funes Mori, at gone into the Everton fans to celebrate for a

minute or so, John Cross. I'm just putting the other view. I think the

referee allowed it to be known that he added on the extra minute, if you

like, for the celebration, to take in the celebration and I think that

is probably fair. What happens when you do get the stoppage during the

stoppage time you have to add on something. Where I feel sorry for

Roberto Martinez and where I think Everton have been let down is it is

a clear offside, it's not marginal, it's very clear and I do think the

officials have really let Everton down. It is no consolation to Leon

Osman that they are great to watch, terrific to watch and frankly you

need better officialdom than that. Do you think some of his anger

afterwards was aimed at your failure to hold onto another lead?

Possibly, but to have gone two goals up and to have been pegged back by

Chelsea the way we were, but then we found a bit extra away at Stamford

Bridge, we found the extra goal which should have turned out to be

the winning goal. To then lose it by unofficial's mistake is

disappointing that Mac and official's mistake. When you score a

goal through Funes Mori that you think is the winner away you are

going to go and some great with your fans as we did.

This has happened before, without making you feel even worse, it

happened before at Bournemouth this season as well.

It did and we were punished on that occasion as well. But yesterday, I'd

be interested to know after John Terry scored, he went and submitted

with the fans, I'd be interested to know if that time was added on

because the referee blew up as soon as the kick-off took place after

that goal. If he's going to do it for one goal he's got to do before

both. One thing that was quite good was the way Hiddink reacted

afterwards because was quite refreshing. He knows they got out of

jail, but he's admitted it was offside and it shouldn't have

happened and we should have lost 3-2. But he has a point, his

unbeaten run carries on. But Chelsea are in a bad place. As they sit here

now they are in a bad place, they are in a relegation fight. It seems

strange to say it but they are. I can't believe where they are in the

table, Chelsea, as defending champions. It has happened a few

years ago but I can't think of it in recent times. When you look at the

quality in the Chelsea dressing room it's just incredible. We all thought

Mourinho may be the problem they have moved on from him and Hiddink

is therefore stuff John Terry post match talked about the spirit and

how they dug it out and it was tribute to their spirit, but I'm not

sure there is much consolation after losing four home points, first

against West Brom and then against Everton for stop it really doesn't

do Chelsea any favours and Chelsea look in a really bad place at the

moment. Would you like to play against them

at the moment, if you compare them to the side you faced last season,

which is nigh on the same in terms of personnel. What is the difference

when you play them, if anything? I don't know, it's difficult. What I

would say overall, from the results, they seem easier to score goals

against. They've conceded five goals in their last two home games, and

that was unheard of last season. They were very tight defensively and

scored quite a few goals on the counterattack. At the minute they

have had to score five goals in the last two games just to draw them.

Do you think there is not humid that when you get off to a bad start, or

you spend the first five or six games of the season not been

perceived to be the all-powerful team you were the season before that

sides since that and go for it a little bit more against you? And,

therefore, it is sort of a snowball effect in some ways?

There has been a snowball effect with Chelsea from pre-season, which

not many of us looked into, but there certainly was with their

shortened pre-season. They didn't win a game in pre-season. And then

they went on to have the incident versus Swansea, and Hazard's injury,

and we all know what went on there. It just carried on and carried on,

and it has almost been a sideshow, so teams have said they are not in

the place they should be and we can get something at Stamford Bridge,

which used to be such a fortress over the last six or seven years.

Now, as Leon Osman said you feel you can get results and score goals

against them now. That is a positive for the league,

not just Chelsea being ineffective, it's other teams in the league

thinking, let's give it a go. Yes and I think it is fantastic, and

across the board teams have seen big teams looking vulnerable, Norwich

going to Manchester United a couple of weeks back, it's incredible, you

just can't believe that. Chelsea have succumbed to some teams you

really would expect them to, obviously it's a different case in

point, but Chelsea look vulnerable. It's interesting that one of the

first things Hiddink has done is bring back John Obi Mikel to try and

ensure up the midfield, and yet it really hasn't solved all of the

problems. They are looking a little bit more stable. They are still so

vulnerable to goals and they are receding far too many goals.

One final thing from an Everton perspective. When you are prone to

letting leads go, does that affect you psychologically, do you think,

as a team in the heat of battle when you are ahead going into the last

ten minutes, do you think it is only human nature if you are on a certain

run, to think, crikey, we might let this slip in the last ten?

I'd love to say no but you'd have to say history says maybe it does. It

is something you need to get out of you, it is something you need to

make sure doesn't happen, but if it has happened on more than one

occasion, you know, you are going to be feeling that until you start

putting it right with results. Do you think that it means not

altering your style in the whole 90 minutes, but maybe as you're getting

closer to the end, getting tighter to try and see it out?

That can depend on how the game goes. If you are comfortable in the

lead you can carry on doing what you are doing. But, you know, if you are

winning by one goal it's more difficult. The saying goes, if a

manager makes a substitution to go a bit more negative and you concede a

goal people complain you have brought it on yourself. That is why

football is such a good game, I suppose.

We must move on to Manchester City who beat Crystal Palace 4-0 at the

Etihad yesterday. You were there, was it as comfortable as the

scoreline suggests? Not for the first 15 minutes, Crystal Palace

should have scored in the first couple of minutes. A good save by

Joe Hart but Delaney should have finished it and then it would have

been interesting to see the reaction of Manchester City, because Everton

I felt were worthy of their point on Wednesday, and I'm sure City were

looking at six points from the two games, they only got one on

Wednesday, so they were desperate to get three. But as the game went on

the quality of Aguero and Silva, it shone through in the end. But it was

a mistake by Hennessey, who sadly has had a bit of a bad week, and in

the end it was just a matter of how many. It was tough for Palace. It

was a strange game. In the first half the mistake by Hennessey, and

then deflected second goal. But then the other goals, the two they

virtually walked in were very good team goals. Absolutely, Manchester

City either draw all lose, or they win, not by one goal, it is four,

five. It is quite strange. It's an amazing season, we keep saying that,

and they are still in with a fantastic chance to win the league.

But I do still feel it's going to be Arsenal's, but City are still in it.

I think City have the ability in the second half of the season to go on

an incredible run, simply because the first half of the season, for

City, even though they are still in the title next you would have to

describe them as being inconsistent because of the talent within the

squad. I just feel, rather like Chelsea, they are vulnerable

defensively and they do give teams opportunities and chances. But the

difference they have is the attacking quality. It is so good.

Personally, I wasn't so sure about Fabian Delph, he had a very good

game yesterday, but maybe he's the sort of tigerish midfielder they

need because defensively and in midfield they can look vulnerable,

but moving forward sometimes there from six is absolutely awesome.

Aguero's linkup with the Silva's goal, having done all of the hard

work, he's on a hat-trick and he squares it for Silva, that shows you

not only the class of Aguero as a goal-scorer but he's a team player

and the best striker in the league by far for me.

I thought Fabian Delph's post match interview was interesting, he said

he knew how it would work when he arrived at Manchester City and he

said that when he gets his opportunity, and they are being

rotated, it's up to him to make sure that he delivers a fantastic

performance to give his manager some serious questions. I think with all

of the speculation that there is on the Pellegrini, one of the plus

points of it is that for a squad that is rotated quite a lot, there

are never really any real murmurings of discontent coming out of the City

squad. No, that's right, and talking about

Fabian Schar, when he goes to a big club like Manchester City he knows

he will have to work for his opportunity there is that much

quality there and he has to take his chance -- Fabian Delph. Heat of his

opportunity and was Man of the Match and that is all you can do. -- he

took his opportunity. What are they like to play against,

bearing in mind you are playing them 27 times in the space of a few days!

? Difficult, they have some

outstanding attacking players that are difficult to contain, especially

at the Etihad, it was really difficult the other night to keep a

clean sheet. But it is possible, and if you can try and get that goal

they can be beaten, because they are slightly vulnerable defensively. But

they are a quality team, and if you make me pick I would say they will

win the title. Do you admire how he appears to keep

the squad happy, two right-backs, two left-backs, four central

midfield players, three or four that can play behind the Middle ten,

there are no murmurings that appear to come out. They know they will get

games, they are in all the competitions. In the running for all

four. They know they will get games but we haven't mentioned one player,

Kompany. Otamendi yesterday was very good. I can see them improving and

having a really good relationship when Kompany comes back.

They all get games and Delph knows primarily he will get Premier League

games, the odd cup game. They have a site that plays in the Champions

League and they have now progressed. They have made some progression with

regards to the Champions League, the last 16. That is important, knowing

there are a lot of games coming up. Knowing you will be playing in a

good proportion of them. To keep a player interested. It is important

your manager tells you that. In the build-up to those five games, you

will play in these ones. A lot of players will want to miss games,

here and there, so they are at a most sharp fall when they are in. If

a player plays every minute of a game, they might become tired. But

if you save you will play this game, missed that one because I need you,

players will be happy to sit out a game here and there. Because they

know they will be in for a big game and feel at their best. Contact us

this afternoon. Leon Osman, Chris Powell and John Cross in the studio.

Leaders, Leicester, opportunity missed yesterday? Must be seen as

that. We need to start looking at it like that. For all the positivity,

if you are saying they are in a race for the title or Mac top four, a

point at the bottom of the table. If it was a city Mac or Arsenal, missed

opportunity? They take the lead and Mahrez misses a penalty, poor

penalty, second poor penalty in a row. It has to be seen as an

opportunity gone. Villa have the worst home record in the Premier

League and Leicester have the best way. Therefore, a clash that you

thought had away win written all over it. Lester Nygaard Arsenal

played today. They are in a 3-way title fight at Leicester play

Arsenal. Man City also involved. I think Leicester played well. But

that result in the week, I wonder how much that victory at Tottenham

took out of them. Even though their form remains good, I wonder about

four months levels, just going down a bit recently. I wonder whether

fatigue is beginning to set in. I just feel that with Leicester, their

resilience is wonderful. I really believe they will finish in the top

four. Whether they can sustain the title challenge is another matter. I

think it has to be seen as two points dropped. When people talk

about it being two points dropped and form dipping, they have played

Everton, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs around the festive period. I

would argue the point that before the Spurs game they would have

looked at the two away games and said if they got four points they

would have been happy. Absolutely. Three points at Spurs. I am sure the

fans will think we will get six but I am sure Ronnie Henry would have

said if we draw at Spurs we will win away at Villa Park -- granny eyrie.

We have been through a good period. It has been the other way round.

Like John said, they were in a position to get the second goal

which would have made them win the game but they missed it. I think

they will be quietly happy. They will be disappointed they haven't at

Spurs and they couldn't win at Villa as well. Four points from two games,

on paper, he would have taken that. Yet Aston Villa have taken four out

of six and yet still remained nine adrift. Of safety. It highlights how

difficult it will be for them to get out of it even if they put together

a good run. Not just the points differentiation, the traffic of the

fixtures. As everyone picks up, as they inevitably do in the second

half of the season because you know what is at stake, Villa look adrift.

Look at Leicester. Incredible at all last season in a similar position

but slightly better off. -- incredible battle. One of the most

remarkable games last season under Nigel Pearson in Premier League

history. This one, history tells us it cannot be done. It was a risk

going in with Remi Garde and I am not sure it is paying off. They

would argue that longer term goals will. And he will bring through

good, young players. I can see them being able to overcome the volume of

teams. Stoke- Arsenal, 4pm kick off with commentary on five live and

highlights on Match of the Day 2 later. From a tactical perspective,

Arsenal during the week at Liverpool, Liverpool cause them

problems. They could argue they had a false nine role. If Stoke don't do

something similar with Bojan in the false nine, can they cause than that

amount of problems? Can it be that simple? It can be, the beauty of

Stoke this year, they play such good football, so fluid, I'm sure they

are missing Shaqiri. They can cause problems. Arsenal can

look at that and wonder how they can combat it. Arsenal are such a great

side going forward. It will be a terrific game because over the

years, Stoke and the way they played, the way Tony Pulis set up

the side, Arsenal couldn't handle it. But now it is a game that they

will relish. I feel it will be an open game and Stoke, with the way

Mark Hughes has changed... He has kept a corps of English plays with

Shawcross, British players. Whelan and Walters. Married with Arnautovic

and Bojan, superb mix at Stoke. One of the stories that is quite

underrated. How do you combat the false nine? Why does it appear so

confusing for centre halves if they don't have somebody who is up there

against them for 90 minutes? They don't want to go in areas that they

are not used to going into. Having a false number nine, if the

centre-half feels he has to go in, the clever teams will, all of a

sudden, their movement and passing and combination play, they will get

someone into those areas. What tends to happen, the centre-back stays,

doesn't want to come out, the full is number nine pick up the ball in

good areas that they can damage opposing offenders. You have tried

that, hasn't made Smith done that role? We have tried it with Stoke at

Liverpool. Putting the two outside players right up in between the

full-back and centre-half. Basically keep a back four outback to mark two

players and you get a tactical advantage by overloading the numbers

in the middle of the park. That is where the initial... Positive comes

from. If they want to try and put another man into midfield, usually

centre-half, that is where the problems come. It is a good little

tackle advantage. A lot of teams try to use it. Walters will be able to

do that Shaqiri role. Absolutely, if the centre-half steps out, that is

his bread-and-butter, where Walters wants to be. The second centre-half

steps out and then he will be in. Stoke are a great team, physical but

attractive football. Mark Hughes has done a great job. This was strength

against beautiful football and now both play beautiful football.

Arsenal will outplay them. You know Arsene Wenger very well, John, what

are his personal feelings when he goes to Stoke? Jamie Murphy says he

deserves all the abuse he gets at the Britannia whingeing about other

teams playing but he never knows when Vieri used to get sent off

every game. Might be exaggerating slightly but I will produce point to

John. Fair point, I was amused to see him in the papers saying that he

gets a worse reception from Stoke fan than Tottenham fans in the north

London derby. My am not sure. Maybe he is talking about

London derby. My am not sure. Maybe the next game. Stoke fans

London derby. My am not sure. Maybe completely besmirched their club?

Arsenal fans will say that is because Aaron Ramsey broke his leg.

But Stoke fans will say, I'm on, you have consistently and constantly had

a go at our club -- hang on. And this is our club that we love, we

will have a go. Whenever I go to Stoke, it is a passionate

atmosphere. It is cold and windy. Expect that today. It represents

everything, almost, that Arsenal don't like in the physical approach.

It has changed since then but White remains Arsenal is because we

feelings against Arsene Wenger. I understand because what he said of

the Shawcross tackle and Ramsay saying he meant it but I can't

believe that he would. And the rugby tackle, rugby football. Under Tony

Pulis. Tony Pulis is well within his rights to play how he wants.

Ridiculous. Arsenal players play in a certain way and it is within the

rules and so is Stoke. Stoke have evolved but the hangover is still

there. The antipathy and anger towards Arsene Wenger is still

there. That is why it is such an interesting game. But the football

has evolved. All the jobs, the managers that have emerged this

season, Mark Hughes is right up there. He has brought in fantastic

players, they play a different way. They will almost be looking to make

a statement against Arsenal and their record is appalling. You

genuinely wonder how much it all affects Arsenal. They haven't won at

the Britannia since 2010. I wonder whether Stoke are more up for this

as a club, not just a group of players, then any other fixture?

Possibly. You always enjoy beating big teams

when they come to town. The fans feel that. When they come. You know

when a team doesn't fancy coming to your place it is even more exciting.

I am sure the players will be more enthusiastic about that game than

others. But it is during games when things start to go against you or

for you coming you still know no matter how much it is going, they

still don't fancy it so we could be 2-0 down but they don't fancy this,

we can turn this around. It is that type of mental thing as much as

anything. They have beaten both Manchester club this year. Chelsea.

They like the big teams coming to town. Pressure is on Arsenal today,

for sure. Arsenal took Spurs. Given that they were beaten by Leicester

during the week, Chris, and then went 1-0 down at home to Sunderland,

I am sure there were quite a lot of people thinking Spurs, who we go

again. Just the moment at the start of the week when you think they

could make a title challenge. Yesterday was very important. When

you are talking to a Spurs fan since a boy... Here we go again! LAUGHTER

It was a real disappointment. Against a good Leicester side having

a terrific season, as we all know. You just felt that it was

Sunderland, Defoe coming back, played for Spurs in two different

spells, here we go again. He is going to score. Van Aanholt. But the

response was quick and immediate, which was important, I felt, not

only for the crowd but the players. Second half, they were fantastic.

They are getting close. We can see what Pochettino is trying to do with

young players emerging not only from the academy but Dele Alli. Superb

signing. With Chelsea being out of the picture this year, for me, this

is the year they can make the top four. They really can. Chelsea are

out of the picture, Leicester are in there. Manchester United are having

their troubles and so are Liverpool in a roundabout way. This is their

chance to make that step up. With the season be considered a failure

if they don't make the top four? -- would the season. As a supporter?

US. Because of the season they have had, only losing three games this

season -- yes. Only Leicester have lost less games. Personally, I would

think so. The feeling within the club... Is for position is theirs to

lose. I think you have got to seize the opportunity. Without doubt, the

opportunity is there for Tottenham. I like the way Pochettino is going

about his business, building from within. Interesting future.

Basically, the club is having to move into the new stadium. It will

be a period of transition. Yet what he is doing so cleverly is in

praising the youth setup, bringing through those young players and it

is working and paying dividends for them now. That is the truly

impressive part. Dele Alli, how can you improve on that? He needs to be

the signing of the season opinion. Spurs epitomises that,

good, young, vibrant third ball. He is terrific. Anfield, Liverpool

against Manchester United, 2pm kick off. Jonathan Pearce covering it for

Match of the Day 2 later on. Reverse fixture at Old Trafford was anaemic,

brightened up by two great goals, Benteke and Martial. Do you expect

to date to be more passionate? Well, the build-up to the game

certainly has been passionate, there have been interesting words from

both managers, Louis van Gaal has commented on Jurgen Klopp's

touchline theatrics and dramatics, racing up and down the touchline,

very much the style Martin O'Neill used at Leicester all those years

ago, you will remember. Jurgen Klopp will not be fazed at all by

Manchester United manager's comments about that saying it is too dramatic

and it is all for show, he'll do it again today. He's commentated Bell

commented on the spec elation about Louis van Gaal and said United

should not sack him. The players will not need manager comments to

stoke them up, it is a wild affair, Steven Gerrard got sent off 30

seconds into his last Liverpool-united game last season,

one of the most fierce rivalries in the world football, why I don't

think the Liverpool players as they played against Arsenal in the week,

they will stiffen up the midfield, we do not know the teams yet, it

will be interesting to see how they line up after the midweek games. But

it's very important for Manchester United, this. If they lose I think

it will be one defeat in nine, their worst record since the early days of

Sir Alex when he was under threat of his managerial job, and it could be

another step towards the exit Doug Ford Louis van Gaal, who was nudged

towards the exit door by Jurgen Klopp that buying Munich when his

Borussia Dortmund team beats buying Munich 3-1, six weeks before van

Gaal got the chop will stop in zones of the build-up to the game,

Manchester United manager slapping off a Liverpool manager, there is

news for you! Van Gaal's record against Liverpool

since he's been at United has been Van Gaal's record against Liverpool

quite good, one of the major positives probably of his rainfall

stop the performance at Anfield last season was probably the best

performance they put in. -- of his reign.

Wayne Rooney doesn't have a great record, Juan Mata was superb. Trying

to put that right, not convinced by the Liverpool centre-backs. They

always looked likely to concede a goal. If Manchester United score

first and then go very dour and defensive and determined I think it

will be a low scoring affair. That Liverpool can't afford that to

happen. Very, very important game this for both sides in terms of both

Champions League places. If Liverpool win Manchester United have

work to do to finish in the top four. If Liverpool lose they are out

of any contention for the top four, I think, on a bitterly cold day, but

always a joy to talk to you. LAUGHTER

You do look cold, John Peers, you look like you are about to go up

Everest, not commentate on football. Johnathan Pearce full of the joys of

winter! -- Johnathan Pearce. What managerial style do you prefer, a

manager who stays calm on the touchline and does not do anything,

or a manager who is ranting, raving, gesticulating and offering advice,

you personally, there is no right or wrong answer?

I've only ever had two managers and neither charged up the line when we

scored. I haven't got any comparison, really. But he's great

to watch, Jurgen Klopp. When you see him, as an Evertonian even, he's fun

to watch charging up the line. When you are playing, because when you

are out wide, you are closest to the manager, do you want to be left to

get on with your game, or do you appreciate advice?

I think most players will tell you they want to be left

the game. CHUCKLES

Rather than being played like Subbuteo players! It's up to the

manager and he is the one who determines that. As I say, Klopp has

been a lot of fun since he arrived both on the touchline and in

interviews. How much do you think about your

touchline behaviour? I think every manager does have

their own style and thinks about how do I react to certain events that

happened during the game. I always feel it's very emotional being a

manager and you have to do your best to keep that in check. I see no

reason why Jurgen running up and down the touchline, the fans like to

see that and they like to see the Passion and the belief you have in

your team, and UI with them. But, of course, you could have two totally

contrasting figures today in Liverpool and Manchester United --

you are with them. You are seen as the figurehead of the club, people

look at you and the figurehead of the club, people

and how you dress the figurehead of the club, people

important and managers look into the figurehead of the club, people

and you have to because all people always look at youth regardless of

the result, as the man who leads the team, who is at the front of the

football club and how you are perceived is seen around the country

and around the world. Did you sometimes go out into your

technical area and have a rant and gesticulating do whatever to show

your fans, whatever club you are at, that you care? If it's going badly

and it's not a great game, you are one or two down and the football

isn't great, did you do it sometimes to get everybody going?

Of course. Not only that but also to your players. Like a Leon said, you

are trying to impart knowledge and tactics to the player, and they want

to get on with the game, and want you to leave them alone, which is

fair enough, but sometimes you do it to spark a reaction from the team,

maybe from the crowd, but you do have to keep it in check, you do get

in trouble if you come out of your area, of course, which is a bone of

contention for every manager, you have the area and if you have a step

out of it you are told to get back into it by the fourth official. But

I do feel that emotionally sometimes it can get to you. You just have to

keep yourself in check sometimes. We had a discussion on Friday night

on 5 live sport about the obsession of managers being figureheads, as

Chris just mentioned John Cross. Nigel Pearson was one of the guests.

Do you think there is too much emphasis on the manager now? Our

discussion so far about this game has all been about van Gaal and

Klopp. Possibly. I just feel they have

become such figureheads. You are almost bordering into showbiz here

because they are. Where Klopp has been clever is he has bought into

that crowd and the Anfield atmosphere, he has embraced it and

used it. Yes, he used to do it at Dortmund, we know that, that's why

he became such a well renowned figure across Europe and fans were

desperate for him to come to the Premier League because they like

that and they like to see the visible passion. And by sheer

contrast, I was at Newcastle the other night, and van Gaal, during

one of the best games I've seen this season, when it swung every which

way, he stayed rooted to his seat. I just feel really there is probably

too much made about managers, but I do feel the managers can use it to

their advantage. I think Klopp is using it really Cleverley at the

moment whereas I don't think van Gaal is particularly popular. You

are looking at this from and Everton point of view, but do you think this

fixture needs more passion inserted into it? Gerrard was sent off last

season but the game earlier this season was very dull. Talking to the

fans from both sides, there wasn't even a pantomime villain to get

stuck into from either side, it was all just a bit flat and nice.

I think that is why we are talking about the managers. Traditionally,

Steven Gerrard, Gary Neville, we were talking about the players and

the way they would come together on the pitch and the tackles might fly

in and that seems to have gone in this era, especially the game at Old

Trafford earlier this season. I think that's why we talk about the

managers more and their styles rather than any fiery events on the

pitch. What is your prediction? Man United.

OK! LAUGHTER

Chris? 2-2. 2-2?

I think Liverpool. Between the three of you you have satisfied everybody

and annoyed everybody! We will talk about the transfers, we are in the

middle of the transfer window, back to one of the games yesterday and

Jonjo Shelvey, who had a very good game for Newcastle. We can hear from

him first and then we will discuss his impact, after the game he spoke

to Conor McNamara. From what you've seen of your new

team-mates in your first game and a few training sessions, is there

enough quality in the squad to be far away from the renegade and zone?

I'm very shocked that this team is in and around it. -- relegation

zone. Considering the players that are in the dressing room. It's a

pleasure to play with them, they know where your pass is going to go.

I feel straight at home and that is a credit to the players and the

staff they have got here. He's shocked the club have found

themselves in the situation they are in. John Cross, surprised Swansea

sold him to direct relegation rival? Very shocked and ?412 million. It

was a good amount to get for Swansea.

Is a good piece of business from a financial point of view but

potentially it's a huge own goal -- and for ?12 million. His career had

come to an end at Swansea for one season and -- reason or another. He

wanted to play regularly and stake a claim for 2016, being on

wanted to play regularly and stake a of the squad, I'm sure he

wanted to play regularly and stake a His passing range, the wonderful

crossfield pass for young His passing range, the wonderful

the build-up to the Wijnaldum's goal was just showcasing what Shelvey is

capable of doing -- Janmaat. Newcastle must be delighted with

that bit of business. Cars, it has impact on arrival, it has

strengthened them and Swansea are in the bottom three.

That is what we were told he was bought for, the range of passing,

which a lot of people have said they have not had their Cincy Yohan

Cabaye. For him to start in after 15 minutes

and contribute to setting up two goals, it seems they were right in

saying so -- since Yohan Cabaye. If Newcastle stay up and Swansea go

down, 12 million is not the worst bit of business. But if it doesn't

turn out that way than 12 million seems a good feed.

Some interesting transfer seems a good feed.

on the south coast. Southampton went about getting Charlie Austin in a

very quiet, understated way, it wasn't all over the papers and

yesterday morning in the papers they had signed Charlie Austin. Someone

is in the Telegraph said it is proof of the recruitment department, the

manager and the owner all going in the same direction. Very clever

business because it was under the radar, it came out yesterday and

everyone was so shocked, ?4 million. Not great from QPR's point of view,

especially with the bid Lester made in the summer, 13 million. --

Leicester City. 13 million and they sold him for four. Not great

business but terrific for Southampton. They have a proven

goal-scorer in the Premier League and Championship. He will score

goals for them. Southampton have a good mix, they've still got players

that have come through like Ward-Prowse and they've added

Charlie Austin to supplement what they have already got in Graziano

Pelle and Shane Long and they will get stronger, for sure.

When Bournemouth came in last season, and I was there when they

beat Bolton and were guaranteed promotion, there were lots of

Championship fans saying, hang on, it is not plucky little Bournemouth

but they have money behind them and then there was discussion. But

they've splashed the cash in this transfer window. Benik Afobe, those

Grabban and Juan Iturbe on loan from Roma.

It's incredible, they've done a great deal of business, and you are

right, they have serious money behind them. The one thing I think

Eddie Howe is doing really well is looking at their squad it is so

English -based, 90% are English players. And I like the fact he's

obviously taken a bit of a gamble on Benik Afobe, because it's lots of

money for a player who we are still unsure whether he will score goals

in the Premier League. Grabban is a huge gamble because it didn't really

work for him elsewhere. I like the fact he's gone for home-grown

talent. For the dressing room harmony and what they can do on the

pitch. You could argue that Benik Afobe,

that like Dele Alli, has some games under his belt in the lower leagues,

so he's a bit more expedience than people may be my give him credit

for. John, Chris and Leon thank you for your company. We have two games

on Sunday, Stoke against Arsenal on 5 live at 4:15pm, full commentary of

that, and we will have highlights of that and Liverpool-Manchester United

on Match of the Day 2 at 10:30pm on BBC One.

MUSIC: (They Long To Be) Close To You by The Carpenters