17/12/2017 MOTD2 Extra

Hello and welcome to Match

of the Day 2 Extra -

we're on BBC Two, 5 live,

the BBC Sport website and app,

as well as the iPlayer.

Joining me today -

Premier League winner

Chris Sutton, Sue Smith -

who played over 90 times for England

- and Sunday Times Football

Correspondent Jonathan Northcroft.

As ever, we want to hear

from you, using #bbcfootball on

social media -

or you can text us on 85058.

Here's what's coming up.

Manchester City win a record 16th

consecutive Premier League game,

thrashing Spurs 4-1.

The pressure grows on Mark Hughes

as Stoke were beaten 3-0 at home

by West Ham.

And we'll be

at the Hawthorns where second-bottom

West Brom face

Manchester United at 2:15pm.

The Mirror - We Are De Champions -

with Pep Guardiola hailing

the performance of Kevin De Bruyne;

it also says Luiz out,

Evans in - with Chelsea set to sell

David Luiz to Juventus

and Manchester United reportedly

interested in bringing Jonny Evans

back to Old Trafford.

The Sun - Point of No Rooturn -

I love reading out these headlines

on a Sunday lunchtime!

Wayne Rooney ruling out

a dramatic England World Cup return.

The Observer - Hughes defiant

in face of Stoke fans' fury.

Will come on to Mark Hughes and

Stoke in a little while. All three

of you, Chris first, tell me

something different about Manchester

City after yesterday.

It's extremely

difficult.

That's partly why I went

to you first.

I don't think there

has never been a season where a team

has struck so much fear into all the

opposition. We say that the league

is over but effectively it

absolutely is. We are in

mid-December, and it's never been

like this before. I think the other

teams just simply don't know how to

play against Manchester City.

The

fear is a point I want to expand on

but I don't want to let you two off

the hook. Soup, is there something

different?

We have spoken about

their attacking qualities and how

good they are at going forward and

their movement and interchanging

positions but what I'm really

impressed about is how good they are

defensively, the fact they win the

ball back so quickly after losing

it. You can see, De Bruyne will go

and then some body else will go, and

it's the knock-on effect. They

didn't let Spurs out yesterday,

didn't let them have a good ball

through for Harry Kane yesterday and

it's so important that you have that

workrate off the ball as well as the

quality they have on it. I don't

know if that's different.

It's not

spoken about enough. So that's all

right. Now you could be in trouble.

I agree with Sue, they played in a

slightly different way yesterday,

the new Spurs would try and play

them at their own game. If you look

at the stats it shows you Spurs are

the only team that run as much as

City, City waited for that and they

did the pressing of Spurs' defence

and played it a bit longer and

absolutely devastated them. They

were using new players. You forgot

at times that Mangala was on the

pitch and Fabian Delph was at

left-back and Gundogan was making

his second start of the season

scoring his first goal of the year.

It's like a machine that's working

so well that even the spare parts

are good.

The goalkeeper is a

difference as well. That has been

talked about.

But again, not as

much.

Last season when they

permitted games, Bravo, the only

shot they had on target, they have

that confidence in him and they can

see games through.

Let's expand on

the fear then. Let me start with

you, Sue. Do you think that's

affecting teams as soon as they step

on the pitch to play them?

Undoubtedly. I think

psychologically, I think Man City go

out and believe they can beat

everybody and I think when you go

onto the pitch, I've done it when I

played for England against Germany,

Germany used to win World Cups,

European Championships and you'd go

out and before you even stepped on

the pitch you were beaten, defeated,

they have that psychological edge.

Did you not try stuff then? As a

team or as an individual when you

play Germany that you would have

done if you'd played France, or...

Frans are good now but I mean,

whoever.

You'd go out there with a

game plan and how you could beat

them but as soon as you go a goal

down. -- France. As a player you

think to yourself how are we going

to respond? These are the world

champions, the European champions.

Man City have that fear they can

still in most teams that they face.

There was a moment yesterday, Kieran

Trippier, we showed on Match of the

Day, he tries a risky pass, City

pressing him so hard and he tries a

risky ball and he puts his head in

his hands in the middle of the game.

You don't see a grown-up footballer

doing that. That is how much it

affected them mentally and the fact

Harry Kane goes around fouling and

should be sent off and Dele Alli the

same. That's again how Spurs got

disintegrated.

We will come unto

Spurs in it. Off air, Chris, we were

talking about the two goals they

scored against Manchester United

last weekend which came from set

pieces. One of the goals against

Swansea came from David Silva

getting on the end of the cross. The

first goal last night that Gundogan

scored again from a set piece, and

you wonder whether teams are

thinking, they have not passed

through us, they haven't scored,

they have only got a corner, and

maybe switch off.

I think that's a

really good point. Because they are

so worried about City playing

through them, that when it comes to

a set piece people don't associate

Manchester City with big strapping

centre halves and centre forwards.

It just shows you how effective they

are in absolutely every area.

Guardiola said after the game

yesterday, about Kevin De Bruyne,

you can't imagine how good he plays

with the ball. He runs like a player

in the Conference, as in he runs and

runs and never stops, not a

criticism of his running style. De

Bruyne is a good example to every

young player. Is at the same thing

to me on Wednesday night about David

Silva, he called David Silva an

animal and wanted to focus on his

work ethic and workrate. So the

argument being, why can't all

Premier League teams work as hard as

De Bruyne and David Silva?

That's

the example they are setting out to

every young boy and girl out there

that want to play football at the

highest level, look at those two

players, absolutely fantastic going

forward. But it's what they do off

the ball, the will and desire to win

the ball back quickly for their

team. They are team players as well

as having the individual brilliance

that can win a game on its own.

Harold says many cynics but I've got

to say as an Everton fan not only

City are unstoppable but the

football they play is beautiful to

watch, sometimes the best thing is

to sit back and admire. Kirsty,

Leeds, Forest and Liverpool played

better football than City do now. I

don't want to pretend football

started in 92 because I started

watching in the 60s. Charlie, this

is becoming hysterical, clearly City

are nowhere near eclipsing many of

the Premier League rates. They are

doing well and playing attractive

football but even if they go on as

suspected to win the Premier League

this would be twice in a few years,

United have a much better record

than this. Another one, whose

Twitter name I can't read out

because I think it's rude, but you

will know who you are: I will just

call you Lord rocket. The perennial

BBC/ Manchester City love in

continuous, every day there is a new

article telling us how Man City are

the greatest team of all-time. This

despite fact they've not won

anything for a couple of years, yes,

there are good but with their money

there is no surprise. That debate,

Jonathan, will go on all season, in

fact until Guardiola leaves City.

Because we can't compare City to the

current teams they are so far ahead

of the rest that that is what left

with. I'm on board with a lot of

that, I do think we rush to say they

are the best ever to quickly. You

only have to think of Arsenal and

United between 98 - 2004 to think of

a couple of teams that might have

beaten Man City. But here and now no

team has ever had a first half of

the season like they have had and

that we can save.

Krhin mention the

point we have, do you feel the

majority of teams going against City

are showing them too much is done in

respect. Could teams catch Man City

out in the New Year and figure out

how to handle them? -- Krhin.

Teams

are trying to figure out how to

handle them but they can't get

anywhere near them at times. Spurs

were trying to do the right thing

yesterday and some teams have done

different things against them, the

United derby when United try to sit

back and defend and that didn't stop

them. Teams have gone and tried to

attack them and they find a way to

win and that's the sign of a good

team, whether it is from a set

piece, playing through the third is,

they can mix the game up and that's

why they are so good and so far

ahead at the moment.

On to Spurs,

Chris Sutton, if you'd been on the

end of either the Harry Kane tackle

or at the Dele Alli tackle would you

have been disappointed to see them

both get yellow and not read?

Yes,

of course. There were both red cards

and people will say Harry Kane is

not that type of player. It doesn't

matter. Dele Alli this season has

been a massive disappointment.

Especially in the league, I don't

think he's turned up. He's had all

this kerfuffle about changing agents

and this, that and the other and I

don't know if it's affected him but

he needs to get back to what he does

best and that's performing on the

pitch and that's the biggest

difference wife Spurs are not

performing, they are a bit of a

one-man team.

He's still a young lad

and do you expect you'll have a bit

of a dip that age?

He is still a

young lad and you do have dips but

you can't take away from that, he

was so effective for Spurs last

season and he's gone missing this

season.

The expectation was so high

because he was so good last season,

so sometimes you come into the

second or third season and you have

to try and fulfil it and he hasn't

been able to. There has been lots of

change at Spurs, the formation,

three at the back, they played four

at the back, that will affect some

of the attacking players.

He was

calculated, he knew what he was

doing, it was a disgraceful

challenge. He has shown more signs

of that this season than last

season. He is playing as a

frustrated player. Something isn't

right.

I think that's exactly right,

how he couldn't make an impact in

the game.

Dele Alli summed up

Tottenham's mallows, he kicked the

Manchester City players as often as

he kicked the ball.

It is a good

line. I thought Foderingham did more

in ten minutes and Dele Alli

creatively and Elliot Lee has played

against Man United, Arsenal and City

in his last three big games and done

absolutely nothing, which is a real

worry -- Dele Alli has played

against. It does below what he is

being touted as what he is worth.

He's not scoring and isn't making

much impact.

Last season I think he

seemed to play with a really clear

head and read the game superbly

well. In that No 10 role he doesn't

seem to know what he's doing in

situations. He's been very, very

average and that must be a worry for

Spurs.

I think teams know they can

wind him up so they are playing on

it, they know he has a bad tackle in

him. He's playing in a free role and

its finding that identity and what

he's good at.

Then just sent in a

tweet that we put on screen. If you

were listening on radio you will not

have seen it and these three were

looking at each other so hopefully

they haven't seen it either. Then W

made the point that Spurs are a

one-man team and who do you think

the one man he suggested?

Toby

Alderweireld.

Were you looking at

the screen?

No, one of my best

friends is a Spurs fan and he said

he is great. Alderweireld's

importance is there clearly.

Going

forward Harry Kane has carried

Spurs, you can't get away from that.

I take the point about Eriksen but

the fact Dele Alli is not performing

is a massive concern. Alderweireld

has been good but I don't think

Spurs seem as watertight the season.

Isn't it as much with Alderweireld,

as well as his defensive strengths,

it's his ability to distribute the

ball from either in a back two or a

back three, either fizzing it into

midfield to get them going, or the

long crossfield balls of which

arguably there is nobody better out

in the Premier League.

He has the

ability to do that and his

leadership at the back as well, you

will miss a player like that, no

doubt. Looking at last season you

could name the Spurs starting XI and

this season it's been difficult to

do through injury, players going,

bringing in players. That's going to

disrupt a team like Spurs.

Lemmy

read some more tweets. Jamie saying,

they didn't read the headline out

about Harry Kane and Dele Alli

stamping on Man City players -- let

me read out. We have discussed it

now so hopefully that's all right.

Any of discussing Harry Kane and

Dele Alli's terrible fouls, nothing

said or done because they are Spurs

players and English. I've read those

out now and said with they should

have been sent off. Any concern

about Eric Dier? Is the suffering

from sometimes being a midfield and

sometimes being in a back three?

Does he not know whether he's coming

or going a bit?

That's part of it, I

think. I spoke to him recently. He

can do both but I think he prefers

midfield but Pochettino was telling

him he can be the best centre-half

in England. I actually think he's

done all right until yesterday. He

had a very poor game. He is at least

taking responsibility and showing

leadership on the pitch, which is

not enough of the rest of them are

doing.

I don't think that's an

excuse, playing various positions.

You did.

Jack of all trades. Last

season he was adaptable and doing

well. I just think he has lost a bit

of form and there is a bit of doubt

creeping into his mind and he needs

to get their confidence back.

Is it

easy from one game to another?

If

you are a good player, Mark, it is

easy.

I'll set them up, you just

knock them through the covers for

four.

The bottom line that Spurs is

there are too many individuals in

that team who aren't performing at

the level at which they did last

season, simple as that.

Johnny, I've

said before and I will say it again,

Dele Alli is horribly overrated, let

against another game in which he's

done nothing and his fiery

temperament is nothing to rave

about, it makes him a liability and

distracts Hepton. When is he going

to mature? Kate says, without

Wanyama Tottenham are a different

team -- distracts him. Let's turn

our attention is to Stoke, beaten

3-0 at home by West Ham yesterday.

The pressure is growing on Mark

Hughes.

My view is that we're better than

the form we are showing. We have to

get ourselves out of the situation.

Where in a difficult situation.

Myself since I've been here hasn't

been in. I don't intend to be

involved in a relegation battle.

It's not what we should be doing,

but I think the clarity of

understanding that actually we are

in one at the moment. We have to

recognise that and do something

about it.

You believe you're as good

as man as any to get Stoke out of

it.

Absolutely, I know this league

and the players aren't what they can

produce on good days. Today wasn't a

great day but we'll get a tune out

of them and will be better.

Do you

think they will get better? Is there

any evidence?

No, I don't. I think

defensively they've just been awful.

39 goals conceded, over at two per

game. Mark Hughes said he's never

been in a relegation battle before.

That absolutely doesn't matter. I

think the first three seasons he was

at Stoke, they finished ninth and

all they did yesterday is launched

it. West Ham outfought Stoke and I

think he's on the brink. I wonder

how long the board at Stoke will

give him because the fans have

turned. It's not 100 or 200, there

are thousands of fans who want him

out.

You can look at every comment

in one of two ways. Chris mentioned

it there. Not being involved in a

relegation battle. That can be a

positive or negative. Some clubs

look to relegation exposed to give

them up. Is that the positive or

negative?

It's a tough one to call.

I think he thinks or nose at the

moment, the board of the club are

backing him. Like Chris said, once

the fans started to turn, they

starts put more pressure, the game

West Brom is a must win. They have

to get the result there. Without

that, yes, he's in major trouble.

The defensive errors, simple

defensive errors. Marko Arnautovic's

goal, that's not just yesterday,

that's continuous throughout the

season.

39 goals they've conceded.

The most in the Premier League. One

clean sheet in their last 16 games.

And yesterday they were torn apart

on the break time and again. Mark

Hughes seemed to be saying that, I'm

not a relegation manager, the

players have to realise they're in a

relegation battle, as if it's their

fault, and attitude thing. He's got

to do more himself. They didn't look

as sharp and fit as West Ham

yesterday. They are soft at set

pieces. There are a few basics that

are wrong. He hasn't really found

players that you'd say, yes, he's a

first-team certainty. A lack of

clarity there.

They're not playing

good football and it's been a

hangover from last season, where

they performed poorly. The Stoke

board will be in a dilemma over when

is the best time to sack him. He's

been a good manager at Stoke in

terms of where they've finished

previously. Do they show him loyalty

and give him the next couple of

games, which, on paper, we would say

are probably winnable? But if you

sack him over the busy Christmas

schedule, it's tough to bring

another manager in. When is the

right time? They can't keep

conceding goals at the alarming rate

they are.

I don't think they've ever

sacked manager...

When they conceded

goals at this rate? They're in

trouble.

It's an identity thing.

Going to Stoke, you know it's a

tough game. Defensively they'd be

difficult to break down, but not any

more. It's easy. Teams go there and

think they'll score goals and I

think they need to get that identity

back.

But that's slightly odd.

They've got a goalkeeper who could

well be England's goalkeeper in the

World Cup. Ryan Shawcross has been a

stalwart for them. Bringing could

zoom in on loan was a good call.

They have Joe Allen and Darren

Fletcher in front of the back four.

That is a team... Stoke fans have

known how disastrous they've been,

but you look at that and think that

ought to be solid, shouldn't be

conceding 39 goals.

We talk about

West Ham and Palace but that's not

worse than their defences, which is

since they were organised have stop

conceding.

People talk about style

of football. Yesterday it was

launching.

Do you have any sympathy

for them yesterday in the fact that

they ended up having to chase

through arguably approver penalty

decision?

No, because I think...

LAUGHTER

Did I think that Manuel Lanzini went

down too easily? Absolutely. Do I

feel sorry for them for that? Yes.

But West Ham dominated the game. At

3-0, it could have been for more,

six or seven.

Two years of

disastrous transfer window, says

James, and a steady loss of better

players have led us to this. We said

we don't have the quality to stay in

the division. Also, January can't

come quick enough, we need to back

with the funds for the team roster.

Could spend a fortune. The wrong

type of player leaves us wears off.

The transfer policy hasn't been

great from Stoke. Steve Claridge is

quite fond on 5 Live of comparing

Stoke and Southampton and saying,

look, I can't do this are the top of

my head, but something like the net

spend is 94 million more at Stoke

and Southampton, which is partly the

players that are brought in, but

also the fact that when the players

do come to Stoke, their resale

value, nine times out of ten, drops

off will stop

they are not thinking

good enough players. They're picking

players that lose their value.

They've got caught chasing this

middle ranking signings. You need to

spend 40 million to get the bona

fides top Premier League player now

otherwise you're going to be further

with your scouting. Throwing a bit

of money at the players in the

middle and have got average results.

They've regressed and he's been

there long enough, Mark Hughes. I

don't feel sorry for him in terms of

recruitment. There his choices.

I

wasn't feel sorry for him. Mark

says, we all know what will happen

at Stoke. Tony Pulis will end up

back in the dugout. Can you see that

happening, Sue?

Not at all. I know

there's been rumours about that but

I can't see that. I think they'll

give him a couple of games. The West

Brom game is massive for Mark Hughes

and Stoke and they need to get a win

but it's that performance, as well,

not just the winning games, they

need to perform and not just the

long ball.

If he goes, will they

look to a British manager or do you

think they will do something a bit

different and go down, say, the

whole route when they appointed

Marco Silva?

They'll go British all

day long. They like Sam Allardyce,

who isn't available. I'm told it

won't be Tony Pulis but clubs have

said that before and stating that

option. Let's see.

What would you

do?

What would I do? I think Mark

Hughes has to go, personally,

because of the nature of the goals

they are conceding and they need to

stop leaking goals, get someone in I

don't think they will go back to

clueless, so it's irrelevant what I

think, but I think they will go

British.

Impressive under David

Moyes so far, let's get a view on

the transformation.

You can see our workrate has got

since he came in. The boys' effort

is the way they've played football

has up to him and in the last couple

of weeks we got the result. How does

that happen? People watching will

see, how does it change? So

markedly? I'm not sure. I've been in

the game in a long time and I can't

give you the answer.

Chris Sutton,

you were saying earlier that one of

the first things every new manager

goes into a club, they criticise the

fitness of the players. Doesn't

matter which club, where it is, but

you can see a market difference in

West Ham under Moyes.

I find it

remarkable, the difference in the

players under David Moyes. You hear

talk about players having to run and

there is a difference. The likes of

Lanzini... They are working away

back. I like Slaven Bilic but you

have to question what on earth was

going on at West Ham under his watch

this season for the players to

actually work that much harder.

Hang

on a minute! Do you not have to

question the players as well?

Absolutely!

Where's your personal...

Are you saying you can't hold the

manager accountable? What would be a

worry for David Moyes further down

the line, this group of players are

working exceptionally hard for him

at present, but it's fundamentally

the same group of players who seem

to have downed tools under Slaven

Bilic. White I think what's David

Moyes has done is his comment,

organising team, nature that

defensively they're solid, difficult

to break down, then he's got those

key players playing.

From early on

in the season, unrecognisable. He's

a good manager, able to say the

right thing to the players, get them

playing, working harder. As a player

you have to have some responsibility

and say, no matter who I'm playing

for, I'm going to still work at that

intensity and that level.

David has

come in, knowing it might be his

last chance, and he's said that

himself. Alan Irvine, Stuart Pearce,

who he thought had retired, it's

like oceans 11. They've come in with

clarity and they're enjoying

themselves, they're not afraid to

tell the players, you're not going

to get picked. Managers don't do

that these days.

Sort of a last

chance saloon mentality with nothing

to lose?

Yes, they've only got six

month contracts. If the players

don't run, fine, they'll be gone in

six months. They've come in, gone

for it and the players have

responded to that.

Football fans

around the world would be gobsmacked

about this running thing. Most

people think it would be given when

you put your club shirt on, you'll

go out, give 100%, but clearly the

West Ham players want. David Moyes

has got them playing tactically.

When they play against better sides,

they stopped the long balls going in

to Peter Crouch and Mama Rivera

Diouf. They didn't want him in, and

he David Moyes, yesterday singing

his name on the way. Fair play to

David Moyes.

Do you think you get

money to spend in January?

I think

he well and I think that's one of

the attractions for the owners that

he is given a transfer budget. I

think you'll get a little bit.

Get

in touch with us, use the hashtag

bbcfootball. The first game this

afternoon is West Brom against

Manchester United at 2:15pm.

Here we are at the Hawthorns.

Miserable day here for the visitors

Manchester United, but the mood at

West Bromwich Albion is much

improved after that midweek draw at

Anfield. The former Albion man,

Kevin, he's with us. We're hearing

good things about the impact Alan

Pardew is having on the club.

Yes,

not on the pitch only way you can

see the results, performances have

improved, but around the training

ground, you feel the club, I

wouldn't say needed a change, but

when a new manager comes in, he

brings a different spark and dynamic

to the training ground and the

players have responded to that.

Bearing the bottom three after

yesterday and in the three matches

in which Alan Pardew have had, they

haven't scored. They've only

conceded one. It said 2-edged sword.

You look at David Moyes with the

balance he's got now at West Ham.

Initially, keep those clean sheets,

click... Give it nice and tight, and

once you get those clean sheets,

built from it. I'm sure Alan Pardew

is saying that to the team, not

scoring goals but at the other end

when you're in the relegation

dogfight, you can become more

expansive as a confidence grows. I'd

have thought that is the message

from Alan Pardew.

The Manchester

United, they need to win to close

the gap on Manchester City. It's not

what they're about.

Watching City

again yesterday, the standard almost

is now getting better and better.

United have to try to live with

that. That is the problem they're

getting and we worry stock Wood

spoke about West Brom. They have to

get a response. Got to try to keep

pace as much as they can because it

looks as if it is moving away from

them, the way City are playing.

One

of the must have of the January

transfer window. The return to

Manchester United this morning. He

went to city in the transfer window.

One thing we can say for sure is

that if he does move he'll cost a

lot more than the 6 million West

Brom paid.

Most definitely and what

he is he worth to West Brom which

are not given the fact is, that

position therein, we talk about

clean sheets, they'd rather have

Jonny Evans playing for them. Of

course he'll want to play at a

better level, play at teams where it

will be challenging. What a piece of

business it's been for West Brom.

Selling for a considerable amount.

20 very much. Should be an

interesting encounter and you can

watch West Brom against Manchester

United tonight on much of the day

to.

Thank you to Steve and Kevin. Let's

deal with Jonny Evans. Howieson Zaha

stirs Jose Mourinho want at

Manchester United? I know that

Bailly is injured but they have

still got a fair few.

Yes, they

have. A decent players to bring in

but do you think... He's been there

before... Would they want him to

come back? I don't know, I think

that's quite a difficult one.

Is he

better than what they've got?

That's

what I was going to say, is a good

enough?

I'm not so sure he is. You

know, he is a good Premier League

player but if you are West Brom,

come on, they will not let him go.

They might not have a choice if they

get offered a lot of money.

So you

think they would risk getting

relegated and letting him go? Come

on, that's just not going to happen.

The problem for United is their two

best centre halves, Bailly and Jones

are injured, as he better than the

other three? He probably is. He has

character which Mourinho likes but

take Chris's point, from West Brom's

pointed view he must stay if they

want to stay up.

If there is a

political point with Mourinho and

Evans, he's been critical of

previous regimes at Manchester

United because they have sold

players who have gone through the

ranks, Evans being one, Welbeck

being another, is it a political

point?

That would add a bit of spice

to it from Jose 's pointed view. He

is Machiavellian but I don't think

he would sign a player just to make

a point.

You just wonder if it is a

short-term rather than a long-term

solution, so whether that's the

injuries and are they bringing him

for that reason?

85058,

#bbcfootball, to put a point to us.

You might make Chris sclaff

depending on your point.

You are

doing a good job.

It's taken me

about two years to get a smile out

of you. You've written about Alan

Pardew in the Sunday Times -- you

might make Chris Laff. He talks

about he doesn't like to be a

manager who tries to snuff out the

game will stop do you think they

will go for it at home to Manchester

United more than they did at Anfield

on Wednesday night which was an

important point?

Yes, I think they

will. He sees himself as a gambler

and a manager who wins big games, he

has a healthy self regard, Alan, and

I think he feels he will be capable

of winning. I think he could be

capable. He does have on paper the

players to play the type of

counterattacking football he wants,

it's just whether they are good

enough. He has strikers that don't

score, for example, good

characteristics but they don't

score. That's what we will be

finding out.

Let me start with you,

Chris. Do you think it is a squad,

the West Brom squad, that's quite

similar, as in having the players to

play in the position is that he had

at Crystal Palace, but are not as

good as the players at Crystal

Palace? Which is what Jonathan is

sort of alluding to.

I take

Jonathan's point. I think it's

extremely difficult at this stage of

the season to go in to a team low on

confidence and totally change the

characteristics and the way this

team plays. It's going to be slowly

slowly. There has not been an

instant impact. But to change West

Brom into an open attacking force, I

don't think it's going to happen

overnight. That's why it's a little

bit risky him coming out on saying

he's going to play this brand of

football. They haven't scored in

three games. It might change today

but then it may well work in

Manchester United's favour if they

do.

They have the players to allow

them to be a little bit more of an

attacking threat than they have.

Yes

and I was going to say they've had a

slight improvement if not getting

the goals, they are able to play

through the third switch is

completely different to the old

style of getting the ball at the

back and hoofing it forward. They

are trying to play the style of

football but it's going to take time

for him to instil his style and

philosophy. As a player, that's not

going to happen overnight. I think

in time maybe that will happen.

Whether he will do that today, I'm

not too sure.

In fairness to Tony

Pulis he was trying to change things

a little bit, he had something

worked really well but he wanted to

try and provide a little bit more in

the entertainment stakes and it just

hasn't worked. Look at Oliver Berg

and some of those signings, they

just haven't really come off --

Oliver Burke. Pardew has to see if

these players are good enough to

provide a bit more.

United will win

comfortably today, they have too

much class for West Brom who are not

on form. It is a classic Manchester

United destabilisation tactic, the

alleged interest in Evans just

before they play West Brom. Do you

like that point?

Yes, that was good.

That brought a smile to your face as

well. We have spoken about West Brom

and West Ham, let's Drogba Crystal

Palace because under Roy Hodgson

they have improved markedly, they

won 3-0 at Leicester, unbeaten in

seven, on their best run in the top

flight since 1990, Sue Smith, has it

surprised you? -- let's talk about

Crystal Palace.

I think so, when he

came in they had no points and no

goals, yes, they have the players,

so we looked at an experienced

manager coming and if you could get

a tune out of some of those players

they could take the step but I

didn't think it would happen maybe

so quickly. I thought yesterday they

were brilliant. I thought Wilfried

Zaha was a different player. I spoke

about the man management with David

Moyes, that's something Roy Hodgson

does very well. Benteke was the

villain after missing that penalty,

and rightly so. He came back and

that's probably the best game I've

seen him play this season. The fact

that he scored which was a bonus, he

set up Wilfried Zaha. Even his

hold-up play was better, it wasn't

pinging off him which it has done in

the past so his overall game was

very good. You've got to give credit

to Roy Hodgson for that.

I think he

is a fantastic coach. I mean, you

know, there has been criticism of

him. As a manager, is he a strong

character? No, but he knows how to

set the team at and the job he has

done in such a short space of time

has been brilliant. They've got that

attacking threat in Wilfried Zaha.

He is a difference maker for Palace.

But defensively they look more solid

and stable.

You two as former

players, can you both see evidence

of an actual proper... When we

talked about Stoke and their defence

and maybe there isn't as much

evidence of coaching, can you see

evidence of what he has done on the

training pitch when you are watching

Palace play?

I played under Roy at

Blackburn for a season the first

session we did was defensively you

are not going to concede a goal by a

long ball, actually setting players

out, pretty basic stuff. And then

moving further forward throughout

the weeks. A lot of 11 versus 11

function stuff, he went pie in the

sky earlier in the season but

they've gone back to basics with Roy

and a coach they can trust. His

remit was to keep them up. They

didn't score goals early in the

season but it was about getting

Wilfried Zaha fit.

The interesting

point on that, Sue, the only time

Leicester looked like they were

going to, or gave an attacking

threat, was they tried the ball over

the top to release Vardy but apart

from that there was a disconnect

between Leicester's midfield and

Vardy.

Considering Leicester came

into the game on the back of some

good form, it made it an even better

result for Palace, and they do look

organised, you can see the shape, so

that doesn't happen again overnight,

that is a coach who goes in and

works with his players and sets them

up, tells them what he wants. It

sounds really basic but sometimes

that can get missed and he's done

that well.

Have a lot of us had our

opinions early in the season ramped

back down our throats on Hodgson,

Allardyce, Moyes, maybe Pardew,

Claude Puel as well? Robert Syms the

Premier League and had a fantastic

start.

Yes, because I think we like

a bit of novelty in the media. The

fact that the clubs go for the same

old names drew the criticism of a

lack of imagination. And maybe it

has been a lack of imagination but

these guys know what they are doing.

If you think how precarious football

management is, and Roy Hodgson has

had a 40 year career in it, you've

got to be pretty decent at what you

do to survive that long in a

precarious job and the same applies

to the others.

I suppose what it

does at, and Mark makes the point

here, does your panel think Pulis,

Allardyce, Hughes, Moyes, Pardew

merry-go-round will ever end? When

will managers outside the top Flybe

given a chance? As it is working at

the moment that is a problem for the

younger ones -- top flight, be given

a chance?

The younger managers can

learn from those experienced

managers, go and work with them, go

and see how they set up their teens,

how they get these results.

Sean

Dyche has got everything those other

guys have got, that's the one that

puzzles me -- set up their teams.

Other managers there would be a risk

but not with Sean Dyche.

It is the

issue with the owners, it's not

these old guys, if you call these

guys old.

Experience.

Yes.

Getting

the jobs. It's the owners' mindset,

are they willing to risk on a

younger coach with all of the money

at stake, it's about staying in the

Premier League. That's why they go

for tried and trusted.

85058 and

#bbcfootball. We have an anonymous

one here that says, have you any

idea how frustrating it is to see an

animated David Moyes on the

touchline at West Ham. As a

Sunderland fan I think we should

demand a refund. Tony, how much of

the upturn in form for Palace, West

Ham and West Brom is from the dead

cat bounce effect from sacking

manager? I presume that just means

any change in manager might give you

a bounce, might do.

Yes, it might do

sometimes you see it happens

straightaway and sometimes it takes

that bit more time. But they have

had an impact and that has to be

down to the managing style, how they

manage the players, how they get the

best out of the players. It's

sometimes about getting the best

players, the players that can win a

game on their own, take the game by

the scruff of the neck, get them

playing. If you are scoring goals it

will lift the rest of the team. And

organising, which we have spoken

about on a couple of occasions in

this.

Hearts just scored in the

early game in the Scottish

Premiership so it's Hearts 1-0

Celtic after 25 minutes at

Tynecastle. Are you all right,

Chris?

I'm totally impartial.

Unbeaten in five, good young

players, but could Celtic's run be

coming to an end?

I wasn't saying

you were impartial but you had your

eyes on it.

It was a good goal.

Competitive league that!

I know it

is, don't accuse me of being

anti-Scottish football, you do that

with enough people as it is. Let's

just finished. Bournemouth against

Liverpool, 4:30pm, you have written

an article on Mo Salah today. Jurgen

Klopp said he needs persuading from

his scouts to sign him because he

doubted his physicality.

Yes, said

he looked at him and wondered if he

was too skinny, was the word Klopp

used I think he might mean small. In

2013-14 they went for him and

watched 15 other wingers, kept

scouting him and didn't see anybody

as good as Mo Salah so they kept on

Klopp, deserve a lot of credit for

that, but so does he, of course,

because what he has done with Mo

Salah has been fantastic setting him

up to play.

You can't judge all

players on height, can you?

You are

looking at me!

LAUGHTER

You were just next along the line to

ask the question too, Sue. Don't you

get influenced by him, honestly!

You've got to give Klopp credit for

the fact that he came out and said

we have too praised the scouts for

bringing him in. You wondered where

he would fit in because you looked

at the other forward players but

he's been the first name of the team

sheet, the influence he has had,

he's been absolutely outstanding for

Liverpool.

His team-mates scored 40

goals last season playing with Mo

Salah. If that stat doesn't get you

scouted I don't know what will.

Thanks to Chris, Sue and Jonathan.

Bournemouth v Liverpool

is live on 5 live.

Highlights on Match of the Day two

is on BBC Two tonight.