19/03/2017 MOTD2 Extra

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Mark Chapman and guests discuss Saturday's matches and preview Sunday's Premier League fixtures, including Manchester City's clash with top-four rivals Liverpool.

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Good afternoon and welcome to Match of the Day two Extra. We are on BBC


Two, on five live and on the BBC Sport website. With me this


afternoon, former Wales and Liverpool striker Dean Saunders,


Chief football writer for the Times, Henry Winter, and the Match of the


Day commentator Steve Gibson. You can get in touch on Twitter or by


text. On the following subjects, we will be asking if it is when and not


if for Arsene Wenger. Chelsea close in on the title, are they everything


Arsenal are not? And two more goals for Romelu Lukaku, but how much


longer will he be an Everton player? Most of the papers focusing on


Arsenal, aside from the Ireland England game. The Daily mail


Romelu Lukaku's feature at Everton comes down to a question of respect,


they say. There is an early kick-off in the Premier League this


lunchtime, it is at the Riverside Stadium and it got under way about


15 minutes ago, Middlesbrough against Manchester United. Ian


Brown. It is still 0-0, but both teams have had good chances. Marcus


Rashford was through on goal keeper Victor Valdes but it was a fairly


tame effort and the keeper was able to save lay down to his left. We're


promised a more enterprising Middlesbrough under Steve Agnew and


we've seen signs of that. Gaston Ramirez with a shot at the edge of


the penalty area which was turned away at full stretch by David de


Gea. Stewart Downing, recalled straightaway by Middlesbrough after


the departure of Aitor Karanka, Man United with seven changes but knows


Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Paul Pogba and Henrikh Mkhitaryan is only on the


bench. No Wayne Rooney in the match day squad. Let's start with Arsenal


and Arsene Wenger after their 3-1 defeat at West Brom yesterday. We


will talk about the performance in just a moment, but this is what


Wenger had to say in the press conference when he was asked about


his future. If you announce a decision on your future do you think


that will change the attitude of the fans who are protesting? I don't


know. Don't worry, I know what I will do in the future. So you will


soon know, very soon. Is the uncertainty the main problem here?


Those interviews he does, he seems to have been doing them for years


and they always seem to be the same. He doesn't say much and he just bats


back every question. But I think the pace is gathering and people want to


see a James. He's been a great manager over the years and I


certainly don't feel comfortable sitting here criticising Arsene


Wenger, but it has come to the point where... Why not? Well, looking at


it from the outside, when I try to look to see what is going wrong, I


think there is a bit of a blame culture and that is what happens


with footballers, they never blame themselves. Within the squad, in the


dressing room, when you're not getting results, the front players


and say there's no service, the midfield players say the back four


is too deep, the back four say they are having to go deep because there


is no pressure on the ball. They sit in their corners and start blaming


each other. Then I think there is a lack of discipline in the camp. When


you look at the way they played against Bayern Munich when they went


3-1 down, people not their jobs. Yesterday against West Brom, zonal


marking. I looked at both the goals they conceded and there were at


least eight players not doing their jobs properly. I have had zonal


marking with my teams and you have to spend hours and hours correcting


players. They have to move a yard. When its man marking, it's quite


simple. You marking and nine, you mark number ten. You don't have to


spend hours doing it. But when it is zonal marking that certain things


that kangaroo. It looked to me as if they just said, you two Mark and you


four just do what you want. If there is a blame culture, which I think a


lot of people would agree with, certainly when watching the players


and how they performed yesterday, is he responsible for allowing the


blame culture to develop, would you say, Henry? He's been there 21


years. It's not as if he had developed someone else --


inheritedsomeone else's players. You could see it in Lee Dickson's tweets


yesterday. Everyone knows and they have seen it in previous reasons how


Craig Dawson attacks corners. And no one was picking him up. It was


embarrassing. When Dawson got his second, three West Brom players...


It's very sad with Arsene Wenger but we are certainly moving into the


endgame now. When you write, there was curiosity. Then there was


admiration with the invincible team. Now he has been overtaken by other


coaches who rotates more to keep their squad is fresh. Now the


emotion is pity and that is the most worrying thing. You can see pity in


supporters and former players who have always backed him, like Thierry


Henry. When you have a distinguished manager being pitied, it's only a


matter of time. It's all down to Stan Kroenke now do actually


appreciate this is his club, he's got to take direction of it and put


Wenger alt. His misery. If this is the end, I think it's a lamentable


end for Wenger. I feel sad about it. There have been more successful


managers, obviously, Sir Alex Ferguson had a greater impact on Man


United than Wenger had at Arsenal, great though his impact has been.


There's been more charismatic managers. But I think Wenger has


been the most influential manager on English football, because he changed


English football in a way that other more successful and perhaps more


charismatic managers didn't. He started bringing in -year-old


-- 15-year-old Spaniards and French players, so not always great for the


English team. But he did have a big impact. And for it to end in this


way, and it does appear in will end in a bad way with Arsenal failing to


Cala vie for the top four, is really sad. When he inherited the back four


at Arsenal, Martin Keown, Tony Adams, Lee Dickson, Nigel


Winterburn, Steve Bould, their characters were their biggest


strengths and they would sort out the marking. They would take control


and responsible at the. I don't think they've got any of those kind


of players now. Yesterday, you're playing against West Brom. You know


Gareth McAuley, Craig Dawson, Jonny Evans score from corners. You know


they're going to be coming in. You've got five players stood on the


six yard box jumping off two feet with those players, six foot five,


coming in and getting a running jump. You've got two players who are


allocated to block those runs. And the players he put to block them


were Aaron Ramsey blocking McAuley, mismatched... Oxlade-Chamberlain,


mismatched against Jonny Evans. And I saw Sanchez there at one point as


well. The wrong players marking the wrong type of defenders. Those


little things make Arsenal easy to beat. Olivier Giroud should have


started in a physical game like that, as much for his physical


attacking qualities but also his defensive qualities. Does Arsene


Wenger think that way? I think he just thinks we can beat you, they


can beat everybody. But sometimes you just have to say, let's be hard


to beat, lads, and we can win. He could have been talking about


Arsenal, if you think you're going to turn up and not fight, you're


going to lose. He could have been talking about Arsenal. Alan Shearer


was asked about whether the players are currently playing for Arsene


Wenger. There's been a lot of chat from the media and pundits about


Arsene Wenger's future. There hasn't been a lot spoken about his players.


His players spoke today during that game. Judging by that performance


and recent performances, they don't want in in that job. Arsene Wenger


would have looked at his players today and ask for a reaction. Said,


come on guys, I've been criticised and hammered from pillar to post,


give me something today. They lacked heart, they lacked fight, they


lacked direction. Every player other than Sanchez I thought was pretty


embarrassing. Christian says," Wenger is keeping quiet because the


Manuel Pellegrini debacle, City were dreadful after that broke". Another


said he is keeping it quiet to minimise the already high media


attention. Another says if he is ready to clear out the dead wood and


by world-class players, he should stay. If he is going to go, Steve


Wilson, why can't he just come out and say yes, I'm going at the end of


the season? History said that's not a good idea and you can go right


back to Sir Alex Ferguson's first retirement announcement and also


Manuel Pellegrini, when we knew he was leaving, performances did. I


think that is human nature. Having said that, it does sound like


Wenger's announcement is going to come before the end of the season,


depending on what your definition of the word soon is. Arsene Wenger is


right, remember Jack Nicklaus saying never play yourself, -- never blame


yourself, baby equipment, the conditions... The players in that


team are just looking after themselves. There is no one who


sacrifices themselves to do a defensive job. They don't have any


players like that in the team. There aren't many players like that around


now, are there? Well, there are. It is recruitment. Why hasn't he signed


a Patrick Vieira type character to organise the team for you? They


haven't got anybody who was on the pitch at the manager's right arm


saying, you do something here, 3-1 down against Bayern Munich with the


risk of going 5-1 down and the fullbacks are still going forward.


It Patrick Vieira were on the pitch, he would have said, you two stay


back and let's lose 3-1. Up until yesterday the players looked to have


got off a bit scot-free and that all the blame has been aimed at Arsene


Wenger and all the anger aimed at him. If you flip it with the


Leicester situation, the last few weeks under Ranieri all the blame


was aimed at the players rather than the manager. I think there has been


a fair of blame to the players. Granit Xhaka, ?29 million for a


defensive midfield player who can't tackle and keeps getting suspended.


It comes back to recruitment. Arsene Wenger is meticulous on recruitment,


almost to the point of delaying and missing out on individual because he


wants to check them over and over again. But he's just recruited


badly. 15 years ago, Wenger would have been in and got those Monaco


players we saw play so well the other night against Manchester City.


Those are the sort of players Wenger would have got at source before


people really knew about them. So he is taking his eye off the transfer


market. ?42 million... Mesut Ozil, I would get him in the room and said


we're playing Bayern Munich, I paid 40 Duminy amounts for you and I'm


seriously considering leaving you out. How can that be possible? Can


you do that in this day and age? I know the point you're trying to


make... Ozil is all right with the ball but when you play against a


team better than you and you got to dig in and say that get a result in


Bayern Munich against their players who are as good as ours, can he do


the other side? But Arsene Wenger doesn't like confrontation. The


strong dressing rooms that you played in, there would be managers


and players who would tell you if you weren't doing your job. That


doesn't happen. But maybe there isn't the right mix of people around


Arsene Wenger. But then he is responsible for that! Why is Patrick


Vieira developing his career at Manchester City whereas Patrick


Vieira's heart, obviously as a player, was at Arsenal. He wanted to


stay in London, they could have developed him, but Arsene Wenger


doesn't like challenge. Patrick Vieira had pride in his own


performance. Patrick Vieira lined up before the game and said, you're not


going to get the better of me today. There's not enough of them in the


team. West Brom fans will be saying, there were two teams in the game


yesterday and we actually won! Let us focus on them. The man who's got


their second goal yesterday was Hal Robson-Kanu, 75 seconds after coming


on. He joins us now. Good afternoon, thanks for joining us a


hi guys, all right. Was it a complete performance? It was a good


performance and I think in the end we deserved it. We outwork them and


in the end we had better quality in key moments of the game. I know this


is a bit odd when talking about Arsenal, but pre-match, did you feel


they were there for the taking? Well, I think obviously everyone


knows they have been going through a difficult patch. But we try and


prepare for each game well so we can give our best and that is what we


did on the day. You joined West Brom in the summer. Can you tell us what


kind of club you found when you join and what Tony Pulis is like to work


with and what qualities he brings out of you? Yeah, obviously I wanted


to join a stable club and a club that was progressing. That's what I


found. It's a small group in terms of numbers but everyone is together


and everyone is working hard and fighting for the same cause. That is


what the manager instils and we've been able to apply it going into


games and that is why we've had the level of success we've had this


season so far. How frustrating to be having to work in tiny little


patches of games? You been getting 15, 20 minutes here and there.


You're still working to get that starting place in Tony Pulis's team.


I want to play games, every professional player wants to play


games but it is about focusing on working hard in training. Showing


the manager that I am ready and what I can bring to the team. I've done


that. As you have seen, gradually I am playing more and more game time.


And hopefully as the game 's progress, we will see a bit more of


that, too. Everyone talks about West Brom's was great and the set pieces


yesterday but there is creativity in that team which we saw at times


yesterday. Do you get credit for that? To be honest, we don't pay too


much attention, we just focus on our strengths. But we have good quality


in the group throughout the pitch. In some games this season, we have


shown that. Obviously, with one game it's not easy to win games at that


level and you have to work hard. And you also need quality. Can you hold


on one second because there is a game going on in the Premier League


and there has been a goal at the Riverside, Ian Brown with the


details. It had been coming and on the half-hour it is 1-0 to


Manchester United. Set up by Ashley Young were playing as a left


wing-back for United. It was a gorgeous cross delivered to the far


post. Marouane Fellaini rising high do guided inside the near post for


his first Premier League goal of the season. Hal Robson-Kanu is with us


having scored the second against West Brom for Arsenal yesterday on


Match of the Day 2 Extra. Dean wants to bring it back to Wales. Forget


West Brom for a minute! Are you fit for next week? Yes, I am fully fit.


Training is very intense that West Brom. Obviously, I am featuring in


pretty much every game. That I have been there since. Training as well,


the intensity has been good and I will be fighting fit. Has it been


more intense than anywhere else you have been?


It's their work ethic which the manager instils in the group and the


players. It is paying dividends. What targets are you setting


yourselves for the rest of the season, bearing in mind Tony Pulis


always tells us about the 40 point mark and you are past that now, in


private has he said your targets for the rest of the season? No targets


have been said. But he said he doesn't want anyone to take their


foot off the gas. He wants us to maintain that momentum. Now we at


that 40 point mark, he once asked to work even harder and that is what we


did yesterday and we can do it for the rest of the season. Thank you


for coming on, enjoy your afternoon. Cheers, thank you. Hal Robson-Kanu


on Match of the Day 2 Extra. I mean this as an economist to West Brom, I


am not trying to get players out of that club elsewhere, but do you


think there are several players at West Brom that other clubs could


well have looked at to do a job for them? Of course. But they have been


expertly coached by a manager who, year after year, his attention to


detail is so impressive. I am a big fan of Tony Pulis. I really feel he


Brondby doesn't get the credit he deserved. He doesn't, does he. -- he


probably doesn't get. It was "Pulis out" at the top of this season and


he's done it again. We talked about Arsenal and he is the opposite. He


would have spent five days on them corners and getting West Brom in the


right spot. Players running into the right spaces at the right time.


That's the difference. Sam Allardyce is the same. The opposite. Crystal


Palace won yesterday without having a shot on goal. Arsenal could do


with a bit of that in the game. West Bromwich Albion at eight in the


Premier League. I think I am right that if they finished eighth, it


would be their highest top-flight finish since 1981. That is


extraordinary. They aren't just a set piece team, they have some good


footballers in this team. They have some of the best left foot in the


league. Coming back to the defensive point, their teams above them, you


old team, Liverpool, they could have done with Best at -- Ben Foster,


they have been terrific. Look at the wage bill. Look at the facilities,


pretty good if you go to the training ground. Tony Pulis does


wonders. It was 1000 games early in the season. The nominal and he


deserves respect. Lots of social media on Arsenal. He arrives late,


he stays late, who would replace him? Steve says that he is there to


appease the fans, he has no input in the team. Lack of defence. Trevor


says, he needs to go, he offers nothing. Arsenal have conceded 16 in


their last four, what is he doing? Get in contact with us. From Arsenal


and West Brom to the leaders, 13 points clear at the top of the Gary


Cahill's late winner at Stoke. You know you have to face a very


strong team. For this reason, it was a physical game. You must be


prepared to fight. During the game. I am pleased. I am very glad for my


players because they showed me great commitment to always stay in the


game with their heads. Now it's important to continue.


You mentioned it in the Arsenal chat. They are sort of everything


that Arsenal at. Yes, they are. I know this has been talked to death,


but I was at the game they lost 3-0 to Arsenal. In September. The change


in Chelsea happened with the formation change but it happened


almost instantaneously. Which is extraordinary. They didn't seem to


need any kind of preparation time. They went from looking like Chelsea


of last season, pretty ordinary, with a lot of the kind of problems


which Arsenal are experiencing this season, into runaway title winners.


It has been a fantastic... You will have interviewed him, Steve. If you


talk to him, he is utterly charming. But he has that cold stare in his


eyes that you actually... It puts ice in your veins meeting him. From


your perspective and a player's perspective, you will fear and


respect him. Everyone sees the emotion on the touchline. There is a


very calculated and intelligent Italian tactician. A very good man


manager. Look at how he handled Diego Costa. Diego Costa, all the


Chinese talk, one or two issues on the pitch, he's got him focused. He


is channelling his aggression in the right way. He took a kicking


yesterday, Costa. I thought yesterday, the first time in quite a


long time that at times we saw a bit of the old Costa back, the


frustration and getting annoyed. Which, often, this season, certainly


in Chelsea games I've seen we haven't seen. But he's kept a lid on


it this season. Look around this team. Coming back to the


counterpoint to Arsenal, they are individuals and they are taking


individual responsibility. Gary Cahill came up to score the winner


after a mistake at the penalty. They are leaders. The game against West


Ham, they were getting battered at Davit Luis stood up to the tried and


Moses stood up. Responsibility takers -- and David Luis. I like


watching him. He comes on the TV and talks like a tactical genius with a


stare in his eyes. He stands on the side of the pitch as if he wants to


have a fight with you and everybody around him. And he celebrates like


it's his first game of football ever! And he is like one of the


supporters. Must be brilliant to play for. When you speak to him you


can't imagine him hanging from the roof of the dugout when they score


but he does. Coming off the pitch, celebrating with the supporters.


There is an example of a manager seeing what's wrong. The Arsenal


game you were talking about, he was almost crying when he was


interviewed after the game and they got beat 3-0. It -- you could see,


I'm not playing like that any more. Kante and Matic in front and you


three get on with it. It properly doesn't say anything to Hazard Pedro


or Costa, just get on with it. Solid platform, good goalkeeper. He


switched during the game. Ten minutes into the second half. In 35


minutes he made the decision he had seen enough and that was the way


ahead. He has used very few players this season. And he has stuck to the


same group. Next season, when they have Champions League football, I


think he is on record, they will have to bring in a good group this


summer. And then he has a bigger squad to manage and it is how he


does that. They have this thing at Chelsea, Cobham, do you cross the


road? They have the Academy on one side, the first team on the other


and it is almost a symbolic thing, when you cross the road. That means


you are ready to go from the academy. Fantastic academy. You see


it, the age groups, they have good players coming through. I am sure


coming classic Chelsea fashion, they will go out and buy weather. Maybe


another midfielder, maybe a defender. But I hope some of the


kids they are developing, I know we says with every Chelsea manager, but


Conte has indicated... He said he was 17 when he got a chance as a


young player. I hope we see a Loftus-Cheek stepping up and playing


more regularly in the first team. They have taken on Nathan Ake, back


from Bournemouth. And not played him. Which is really frustrating. As


Nathan Ake's development. It looks like Christiansen is coming back


from Germany to bolster the three-man defence. Both sides. Get


them from over the road and Europe. It makes you wonder if these


academies will ever work. How do you get a game for man city as a young


player? They go and buy somebody. They buy somebody for 40 million.


That is the insecurity of modern management.


You say insecurity of modern management but as a manager, you


should have one eye on the future and one eye on the near future. Get


results right now. But running the club properly, you should have one


eye on what is coming in the next five years. But now managers are


saying, I will not be here. Most managers might not even get to the


near future let alone the future. They say, I will not waste any more


of my time on the Academy, watching and 18 games and other 23 games


because I will not be here. If you want to know how good Nathan Ake is,


have a look at Bournemouth in the six weeks after he left. City have


unliveable. You are doing this came later. What kind of City are you


expecting -- city - Liverpool. Under pressure City. It does seem to defy


all logic. But when you look at Pellegrini last year, we were


talking about when the decision was made in February, it was announced


the Guardiola was coming. City won a cup. Qualify for the Champions


League. Semifinalists in the Champions League. It is possible but


what you might fall short of all three of those achievements if you


call them achievements. They were not enough to keep Pellegrini in a


job. The club has been fashionable Guardiola over a number of years. He


was supposed to be the last piece in the jigsaw. Here they are, in a


mess, potentially. They have Liverpool, the international break,


two huge games, Arsenal and Chelsea, coming up after that with the


Manchester derby to be rearranged. These are all games that City might


lose. He's managed in different countries. I've played in different


countries. And for big clubs. Sometimes, before you even get the


game, the opposition have given up. Doesn't happen in the Premier


League. The bottom team in the Premier League can beat you at any


point if you are not right. They are trying to play up from the back.


They are still building. Trying to play out on the back. Managers work


it out. Started pressing them. I partly take that point but when


Manchester City went to the bottom team in the League 2 or three weeks


ago, Sunderland never looks they could beat Manchester City in all


seriousness. They don't. They should beat them. They are not surprise


results when teams turn Man City over. Especially playing Kolarov at


centre-half and use spread the whip of the pitch playing Total Football


and body run down the side of him -- the width of the pitch. Not


surprising when Vardy get in on goal. Chelsea don't do that. They


are tied. They are players in spaces. They don't leave themselves


exposed. Arsenal and man city are doing it. Ambushes all over the


Premier League means it is more competitive. It provides relentless


excitement. The flip side is that you have to give good managers time.


Take a player like Lallana. How much Adam Lallana improved? It was always


a 70 minute player. Not like weight of not running games. How much has


he improved under Jurgen Klopp? Give managers time and they will improve.


Look at Raheem Sterling. He has improved no end because of


Guardiola. It will take time. We have to be a bit more patient with


good managers. Both these managers... Not just looking at


today but looking ahead to the summer and next season, do both


these managers, and maybe it will happen more at City at Liverpool,


who knows, do they need to be back significantly by their boards and


owners in the summer transfer window? Because arguably, City could


do with at least two new full-backs and another centre-half. Liverpool,


at times, this season are having to play Lucas at centre-half and


although Miller has had a good season at left-back, is that what it


boils down to? I think I am right in saying that one of the papers, it


might have been yours, Henry, did a list of the most expensive centre


halves in the world ever. They just bought John Stones. I think I am


right in saying that quadrant of the right most expensive centre halves


belong to Manchester City -- watcher of the most expensive. Possibly


four. -- four of the most expensive. They are still playing Kolarov.


Still hoping that Kompany will be fit. That is not necessarily


Guardiola's fault he has. A lot of dead he needs to get rid of. -- he


has a lot. -- a lot of deadwood. The recruitment has been poor. He will


address that. Over a number of years it has been poor. Sensational, the


front five. He wants to play out from the full-backs. It is Kiki is


allowed. All of those full-backs are over 30. -- it is key that he is


allowed. It used to be that you had to defend first. Now they are


teaching, I think, young players how to play out from the back and they


have lost that bit of determination, defend first.


We want our English centre backs to be able to play like foreign centre


backs can, but it's gone too far. They've forgotten about the


findings. -- this forgotten about defending. When John Stones is in a


race against Falcao, you can't get beat one against one there. The


football comes second. At the moment we've got to be careful where not


going to far the opposite way. Playing it out of the back, where


would you play Emre Can? I think he is, well, he's obviously a central


midfielder but with a defensively minded older player next to him.


Everyone looks at Emre Can and thinks he's 28 or 29 because he's


quite physically imposing. He looks like he's in his late 20s. I think


he's actually just 22. This is a kid who is highly admired in Germany,


who was developing -- is developing under Jurgen Klopp. I think he needs


to be more consistent. He is a kid playing a difficult role. He spent a


lot of his German international career playing as a full-back,


actually. I like him, I think he's a good player. But I'm not sure that


Liverpool have an outstanding central midfielder. They have quite


a few good central midfielders. They are basically short of players.


Everyone likes Jurgen Klopp because everyone can see what he's trying to


do. They're going in the right direction. They would go second in


the league today if they win. He put a bench out the other day, Stuart,


Ben Woodburn, Divock Origi, Klaven, Alexander - Arnold. And Man United


put a bench out worth ?250 million. Until he can put out a bench as good


as that, he's not going to win the league. He needs some help from the


board. Robert Lee part of the thing of Liverpool moving out of Melwood


and moving the first team into the Huyton Academy area is that they're


going to try and get more through from the academy. Liverpool can't


compete with Man United and Man City financially at the moment, it's just


not going to happen. That is the late afternoon game. The middle


game, there are three, 1-0 at the Riverside at half-time at the


moment, but we've got Spurs against Southampton which you can hear on


five live later. I suppose the big question for Spurs is how they cope


without Harry Kane for however long it is going to be? Well, on the


evidence of the goal-scorers outside of that team, clearly Harry Kane,


quite rightly, gets an enormous amount of praise for his


goal-scoring but you look at the other people and song young men as


13 goals, Christian Eriksen has nine, Dele Alli has 15 or 16 goals.


I think Vincent Janssen is still going to find himself on the bench,


however long Harry Kane is out for. They have goals in the team. If it


is a five or six week injury, for Harry Kane, then I think they can


probably get through it. I was at the match against Millwall when


Harry Kane went off early on and Vincent Janssen almost just sort of


rows out of his seat and then Son got the nod. A classic centre


forward who actually did very well against England at Wembley. But


Pochettino obviously doesn't trust him as the number-1 understudy for


Harry Kane. But then he did come on and he did break that duck and


finally score from open play. So I hope he gets a chance because


everyone you talk to at Spurs says he's a lad and works hard. Just one


thing on Southampton, being in thing as well with James Ward-Prowse and


they showed the clip of when he was 13 and he stood at Southampton's


training ground and said my first ambition is to play for Southampton


but my long-term future is to play for England. Then they got him back


there on his England call-up. It's interesting because he has been


highly admired. We can seek him on set pieces. He's got to start


showing that he can run games. There's definitely a captain in


their but he looks like he will be more moulded in the under 21 team.


Let's go to Middlesbrough first at half-time, Ian Brown. Middlesbrough


0- one Manchester United. Middlesbrough certainly more


progressive and playing higher up the page under Steve Agnew but


falling behind on the half-hour. Marvellous cross from Ashley Young


headed in by Marouane Fellaini at the far post. Marcus Rashford has


troubled Middlesbrough with his pace but his finishing as the North will


stop Middlesbrough's best effort came from Gaston Ramirez, saved by


David de Gea. Dundee against Celtic. This could have been a tidal


celebration but Aberdeen inconveniently beat Hearts yesterday


for Celtic, so it has been postponed for now. For the moment and even


game but Stuart Armstrong showing why he is in the Scotland squad,


with a dipping free kick that only just skimmed the crossbar. 0-0.


Let's talk about Romelu Lukaku. Everton beat Hull 4-0 yesterday,


maybe a slightly flattering scoreline for Ronald Koeman's died


after Hull were reduced to ten men, Tom Huddlestone being sent off. Lots


of discussion about whether Lukaku will stay or go. Mino Raiola, his


agent, had said earlier in the week he was 99.9% certain to stay and


then there was an interview with Lukaku when he said he was uncertain


about his future at Everton. Let's hear from Leon Osman, former Everton


midfielder. I know Rom, I played with him. I always try and find the


positive in it and try and think of exactly what he's done, but


regardless of any of that, his thoughts there should have been done


in-house. If he felt like that, he should have been going to speak to


the manager about it and expressing his concerns and doing it that way.


By coming out into the press and doing it publicly, it's not a good


message for the club, it makes it sound like things aren't quite going


right. It makes him feel like he's looking for a move away as well.


He's trying to stir the pot and look that way. That's the way it seems. I


know you're a former Liverpool striker but if Romelu Lukaku were


going to ask you for advice about what he should do, what would you


say to him? Keep your mouth shut! Number-1. All he's done is wind his


team-mates up, because all his team-mates will be thinking, who do


you think you are? We keep putting the ball through for you. I know


you're a good finisher but we keep supplying you with the ammunition.


All the supporters will be thinking, it's like getting divorced, for


Everton fans. He's their best player and he's come out and said he wants


to leave. They take that the heart. The manager is now under pressure


because he has got to answer questions about it. If he wants to


leave, just keep it to yourself and tell your agent to get on with it


and concentrate on your football. At I don't understand, now is not the


time to leave Everton. They are on the rise and they could catch


Arsenal. They've got a good manager. 50 grand a week, Henry. Well, I


understand it... It's interesting, you talk to people about Lukaku. He


is not driven solely by money. His agent might be. But he is thinking


about playing in the Champions League and I can understand that


from eight career perspective. They've got a wealthy person who has


come into the club, the new owner. You look at the players they have


wrought in, young and vibrant. They are actually creating chances for


him and at some point they're going to have a new stadium. It seems a


strange time to leave. You were there yesterday. I was there


yesterday and in fact the reaction to Lukaku from the fans I thought


was impressive, there was no negativity at all and obviously he


scored his two late goals and was a lot of love going on. But the future


of Everton has never been brighter, or not for a very long time. Not


only because of the new money which has come into the club which is very


important, but also because of the young players they have at the club.


Tom Davies is an exceptional prospect. Dominic Calvert-Lewin


scored yesterday. The one I think is, I've only seen him play for


about an hour and I think it was against Bournemouth and he was in


station, was adamant look on. That weekend Gabriel Jesus made his


Manchester City debut and I didn't watch his debut live, but I watched


Lookman. Of the two on that day, Lookman looked the better player!


There is an example of why he's done the wrong thing because I've just


spent 30 seconds talking about him upsetting the fans and team-mates


and his manager when I should have spent 30 seconds saying how well


he's playing and how good his finishing has been. Because he is


playing out of his skin and he looks unstoppable, both feet, calm when he


finishes, brilliant. I think it's nine in six that he's scored now and


23 for the season, something like that. He's done it 34 years running,


scoring 20 plus. You don't have to say anything. If you're a striker, I


played in his position, if you're scoring goals, people come to you.


You just sit there and keep scoring and somebody knocks on your door.


And then you don't go around upsetting everyone. And often that


with Romelu Lukaku seems, we often find negatives when talking about


Romelu Lukaku, I don't mean us specifically but the media in


general, I can't think of a player where people talk more about what he


can't do rather than what he can do. I think there's a lot of celebration


of what he can do. We see it every time he picks the ball up. You've


only got a look at the goal-scoring stats, the consistency, the minutes


on the pitch. This whole thing about, as he upset the players? He's


a pretty popular as an around Finch farm and Goodison Park as well. He's


a very likeable individual and a lot of the interviews this week were on


the back of Kick It Out events. He does great work for them and Everton


do fantastic work in the community and he is a big part of that. He's a


fantastic individual. But if I'd heard what he said, I would say,


what are you doing? It's not his place. There's people who run the


club, you're just a player. There's people above you and above the


manager who decide what money we spend and who we get in. You can go


in the dressing room and open the door and say the manager, what are


we doing next year? Are we going to sign some good players and try and


win the league? You wanted to say that but you don't want him to come


out publicly. He did not -- it did not feel at Goodison yesterday as


though there was any change in the relationship between the and


supporters and the player or his team-mates and the player. I would


love him to stay at Everton, I would love him to stay at Everton. Your


team are playing great by the way, at the minute. Fantastic football.


At home, unbelievable. Unbelievable at home at the moment. You think


they will go the rest of the season unbeaten West to mark at home. They


could win all their remaining home games, even Chelsea at home. The one


game they conceded, against Bournemouth, they scored six.


They've scored 22 goals in those six games and let in three. At home,


they are about as tough as it gets. Do you think he would get a better


platform for his own skills anywhere else? If Diego Costa stays at


Chelsea and they play the same system and he goes to Chelsea, he is


just setting into the -- stepping into the shoes of Michy Batshuayi,


which at the moment doesn't look like a good place to be. Given the


length remaining on the contracts, they have also got Ross Barkley to


deal with at Everton. He is having a terrific season. That comes back to


great man management by Ronald Koeman. Human challenged Ross


Barkley and said, you've got so much skill, go and deliver it on a more


consistent basis. Berkeley is back in being the squad now, a good


reflection on Combe and's qualities. Crazy time to leave Everton. But


people are also talking about Ronald Koeman being attracted away. We're


not absolutely certain he is going to be the Everton manager at the end


of the season. That could be a factor. Combe and's career would


suggest he is the kind of manager who always has half an eye on the


next move. But despite all that, it was very positive at Goodison! I


enjoyed it and they are playing exceptionally well. Thank you very


much Steve and Henry and Dean. Steve dominating on Manchester City


Liverpool later when we will also show Spurs and Southampton and


Middlesbrough and Man United. Two commentaries on Five Live later this


afternoon. We will see you He believes himself to be


your equal.


Mark Chapman and guests discuss the talking points from Saturday's matches and preview Sunday's three Premier League fixtures, including Manchester City's clash with top-four rivals Liverpool.