03/11/2013 Scrum V Sunday

Beware the Springboks are here, and have laid the gauntlet down.

We try not to talk too much about it, I would rather walk the walk and

talk the talk, you know. We will have all the weekend's rugby

action, as the battle for Pro12 supremacy rages on.

And we remember one of the most remarkable achievements in Welsh

rugby history. All of New Zealand know about

Newport, because they beat the all Blacks.

Good evening and welcome to Scrum V. Jonathan Davies, Hugh Bennett and

Shawn Hartley are all here to discuss the heartbreaking defeats

against South Africa into a hopefully famous win next weekend.

We will also have all the action and analysis from the Pro12, and we will

begin with the Scarlets against Ulster.

Ulster arrived at a blustery pitch on a six-game winning streak.

Phil John War the skipper's armband for the Scarlets.

Was it forward? I think so.

This is one he can kick with his eyes closed, straight and true, no

problem. That is a great break from Josh

Turnbull up to the 22. Gareth Owen, one pass will do it for the

Scarlets. The Ulster cover is a bit bare on

that far side. It is a penalty.

Penalty given, Steven Shingler is still going. They will come back for

the penalty, though. Steven Shingler gives it a fair old

whack. That is the best thing to do in the wind, no problem, 3-3.

Now, can the Scarlets finally get over the line this time?

They had success earlier with the old rolling maul.

Ulster crumble and the Scarlets have got the first try.

Thomas with a little dink through. Inside for Turnbull and this is a

good chance for the Scarlets. Can Gareth Davies find support?

It is a penalty, this could be a yellow card, it has to be.

It was on David McIlwaine. No problem, and the Scarlets are up

to 14. He was grabbed -- cropped then,

wasn't he? He was cropped by Roger Wilson, that will be worth a yellow.

Ulster are a man down, remember, now they have a chance to drive it.

As long as they have monitored, the referee will be happy.

The arm was out. Rob McCusker, the water boy, really

cheering his forwards on. And he has nailed it. A great kick

by Aled Thomas. To Amanda the players outstanding,

and you cannot ask for more than that when you are playing against a

quality team like Ulster. We got everything and controlled everything

really welcome and we more than deserved result.

Yes, Simon rightly lavishing praise on his players after escaping from

jail last week against Zerbre that was significant.

Yes, you would expect them to finish in the top four. They are toughing

it out, really. The Scarlets forwards this year have really

surprised everyone. The set pieces have been good with them. It is just

a question of playing the game and the right areas and toughing it out

and getting the result and getting off the field for a cup of tea or

something! Yes, dreadful conditions across the

UK and Ireland this weekend. The bread at ice played a part

yesterday, but we have seen in the last few weeks the Scarlets'

forwards asserting themselves in a way that is very untypical.

Yes, we all know that the Scarlets can play an open and expansive title

of ten, but this particular squad has to learn.

Last night it was about the conditions and the forward play, and

conditions dictated the style of play.

Temani was named as a big player on the night, but it ironically was the

old player, Phil John, who had a great game. He was the captain on

the night and had a big, big game. It wasn't just in the loose. Watch

the Scarlets, they had this one out style of play, playing around the

corner. The gap Gareth Davies, looking for the short side playing

against the grain the other way. That was very effective on the night

with people like Jake Ball, who is coming to the fore. With the new

scrum laws, they have been imposing themselves against the likes of John

Afoa. We are starting to see driving more from the Scarlets, something

they don't have a reputation for. This example as early on and leads

to some points and ultimately manifests itself in them getting

themselves over the line for the score. It is a great forward effort

and a lot of credit to those boys and the coaches.

Martyn Williams said a few weeks back that Phil John's form had put

him on selection at the grand old age of 32. Are these guys benefiting

from the new laws? Yes, Phil has reacted to the

captaincy well, but my argued it would be that he is a veteran of the

scrum and the laws suit him. The older guys love to play the new laws

and he is there in the action now. You can see the knock-on effect on

the rest of his game. Because they have changed the laws on the scrum

he has confidence in the scrum. He has been a good player, but this

year he has been brilliant. The scrum has been very aggressive from

the Scarlets. It is bringing back the art of

scrummaging. Some of the players playing

professional rugby are used more to the kit and Jess, whereas he

relishes the technical aspect. All of those skills from ten years ago

he can bring back into the game! He has added a few more years into his

career. Let's turn our attention to the big

one, the South Africans have arrived in Cardiff this afternoon ahead of

next Saturday's big Test. Last month they came agonisingly close to the

rugby championship beating New Zealand but fell at the final

hurdle. Next week they will look to take out their frustrations on Wales

for sure. When the Springboks come to town, we

all know what to expect - bullying, brutality and pain.

We get brought up playing a hard, physical game. You need to be tough

when it counts. Guys go into the game with a mindset like that. They

are relying on you to step up your game, not just from a tactical and

technical point of view, but from a physical one.

You generate that confidence when you put the Springboks shirt over

your head. It is almost a bullet-proof feeling when you put

the green and gold over your head. Especially against the northern

hemisphere sides, we do approach the game with a lot of confidence.

But despite their unshakeable self belief, the Springboks, who have

been training in Johannesburg this week, have more than a little

respect for the next opponents. The thing that makes Wales such a

difficult team to play is there are no witnesses there. They are a very

balanced side. They have lot of good forwards, a lot of big backs, speed

and skill. It is difficult to get a game plan going against them and

they have a good kicking game, as well.

They have won the Six Nations twice in a row. They were the dominant

team. We are tapping very well and we know what is coming and the boys

will be up for it. Whales are very physical, they have

a very big pack. They have big wings, centres, you know, so it will

be tough. The conditions, it will be raining, hopefully the roof will be

closed at the stadium, but it will be physical.

It doesn't matter what happened with the Lions. We believe we have grown

as a team and this is a totally different challenge, different

mindset in the way that you play. But they are a quality side, and we

respect them. It will be a huge battle.

The manager has been in charge for 21 games and are slowly putting his

mark on the squad. South Africa's reputation as 1-dimensional bashers

and kickers is receding. In the recent championship they scored more

points per game and made more metres than any opponents. They are the

most incisive, making more clean breaks per match than anyone else.

Marry this with a more disciplined approach and we're looking at an

altogether more sophisticated Africa.

The old game plan has changed in the last couple of years. The manager

came in in 2012 with his own set of ideas and principles. We have been

stereotyped as a conservative playing side, kicking at the right

times and playing for territory. If an opportunity comes around South

Africa will take the opportunity now.

You can definitely see the way it has changing the way we approach the

game. There has been a lot more attacking intent even from deep in

our own half. We have been scoring tries, especially against the all

Blacks. It is looking well for South Africa in terms of the overall

approach to them. Ultimately, it is the physicality

that remains the calling card. Whales have their hard men of their

own right now, who are every bit as fierce.

These guys are enforcers in their own right, but this will be the

first chance a lot of the Springbok players will have had against them.

The first game away is at the home of Welsh rugby against a strong

side, so you have to perform. The guys have to live up to it. We

try not to talk too much about it, you -- we would rather walk the walk

and talk the talk. You are not scared of Alan Jones

then two we will see! Alun-Wyn Jones, he has become known

as the enforcer but doesn't like that tag. Are you scared of him?

I don't want to give too many cliches, but he is a natural leader

of men and has the right to do so, as well. When he is in that role he

is not afraid of putting the cat amongst the pigeons. If he thinks

something is right for the team he will do it and wants the team to

follow in. That is where he ends his respect. Anyone can say they are a

leader of men, but they follow him. He is the right guy, maybe not

captain on the field, but he is a leader of the guys and they will

follow him. He is in that position because he has earned the right to

be there. He is an intelligent bloke, an

intelligent player. When he was made captain against

Australia everyone was surprised. But they didn't know him. I thought

he was a natural captain. He has been brilliant the last couple of

years. Though he has not had the captain behind his name tag, he has

been as much an influence as any of the captains.

Knowing Alun-Wyn Jones personally, there is no one that will do that

extra bit of analysis more. He gets respect, and when I say he

is a natural leader of men, guys will naturally want to follow him.

Let's bring this back to the box, we talked earlier about the narrow

defeats in the last four times Wales have played them, losing by no fewer

than five points. The last time was in the World Cup, 17-16 was the

score, we could have beaten them but for a kick.

Tell us about their brutality, the fact they are allegedly the toughest

team to play against. Is that how you find them?

Definitely. The guys even talk about it on the video themselves, they

pride themselves on being big, physical men. They know that and

elected to use it. It is not just physical, but mental. They like to

go out and they are individuals in the squad. Look at the inclusion of

some of the players. You will see them when they come out before the

game, they are sticking their chests out, but during the game they are

doing all the niggling things trying to wind people up.

All of the legitimate stuff, and off the ball stuff?

Exactly. Of course, they know their strengths, but it is about

controlling what we do. That's what will win the World Cup. We know they

will, you physically and when you up off the ball, but cogitate on your

role, make sure you are doing your things right.

As Michael concentrate on your role. They are going to run at us, they

have different dye mentions to the game but at the end of the day the

focus is one runners crossing the game line.

I am glad you brought that up, because we talked about how the game

has involved and they are perhaps a little more subtle and sophisticated

than they used to be, but ultimately their game has changed.

I spoke to Stephan blanch about how they are preparing. It is the first

stop on the tour, don't forget. They want the tour off and running. A lot

of the young guys are thinking about the World Cup. It will be a game of

attrition. Warren Gatland takes pride in his word being physically

fit and powerful so it will be a physical confrontation. I think the

Springboks will come the only way they know how. We have some footage

of them last autumn. It will be very direct from set pieces. They have

called JP Peterson back on the wing. Just defensively, they have this

sort of Greenwald that loses constant -- confidence, almost

arrogance. They will take you down. Louw for me as one of the players at

the heart of things. This is where they will push the scrum, they will

drive it and you can see that Louw is at the heart of everything. Very

direct, very physical and confrontational and it will be an

epic first match. You could have taken those clips

from any game in the last ten years. It is just the same. They will come

and they will bully you. You And you don't have to be nasty, but you

don't have to take a backward step. There are too many cameras now. But,

there have to be aggressive. They have got a couple of new players. If

the ball is slow, they will kick off it. They will not change their game,

but they are very direct. In the World Cup, we should be on them. I

think they are a better side now. Let us talk about Wales. The Welsh

15 Margie picks itself. A few positions are up for grabs. Would

you stand on that? It is a tough one. Dan Biggar is playing well. It

is very difficult. It comes down to whether you want to play the whole

scarlet in midfield. They all know each other. Whoever he picks, he's

picking from form. I thought Dan did exceptionally well last season. I

think he deserves a place. I would start with Dan. Maybe bring Rees on.

I think Dan should start, I think you are right. The big talking point

is probably with Alex Cuthbert out. Whoever we play, we are happy. We

will talk a lot about this on extra time. Let us go back to the Pro12.

The ospreys took on Munster. The highlight in a few moments. First,

the blues against Treviso. Robert Barbieri was making his 100th

appearance. The Cardiff Blues deprived of nine Welsh

internationals. They were led by Josh Navidi. He has gone straight

through the middle. Richard Smith arrives. Lewis Jones looks around.

He tried to get the pass away. The Blues have a penalty. Gareth Davies.

Like a banana, but safely. Good position for the Blues. Not the most

comfortable of scrums. Andries Pretorius as well. Edging forward

towards a Treviso try line. Lewis Jones waits patiently as the

forwards take it on. The scrum-half gets it. Kristian Dacey is over. Sam

Hobbs. That shows how strong the Windies.

Matt Berquist. Two Michele Campagnaro. A superb

Treviso try. Good-looking scrum for Treviso. Lewis Jones tries to drag

him back. He has just lost it at the last second. Good pressure. Back

comes Dafydd Hewitt. Lewis Jones to Dan Fish. Andries Pretorius is over

in the corner. That is a great try. Oh, that is very harsh. Tobias

Botes. Lovely running from Dan Fish. Lewis Jones waits. Sam Hobbs and

Josh Navidi together go over. It puts the Blues back ahead.

The wind was tough. What we managed was controlling the territory.

The ospreys travelled to Munster with confidence.

Good work by Lewis. They win a penalty. Matthew Morgan succeeds.

The ospreys are back into it. He is over by the post. Was that a

proper scrum? It was incomplete. I wonder what the decision will be

this time. It is not a try, much to the crowd's dismay.

Bishop again. Richard Fussell in support. That is a Munster try line

in the background. He is about to meet a short. What

will a decision be? Did they cross the line? Let us have another look.

I think there is a double movement there. Yes, the referee confirms

that. They move it up to the left. Possibly a late tackle the. Hanno

Dirksen. This is the substitute, JJ Hanrahan. That opens it up. We are

into the last few seconds of this game. Can the Ospreys salvage

something from it? A penalty kick is coming, I think. Matthew Morgan, in

what will be the last kick of the game. Can he kelly teen? Yes, he

can. Munster will stay top of the table.

Perhaps we have picked something up. Whether we deserved it, I don't

know. Not much will be on display. Conditions played a part. A losing

bonus point. I think it will be precious. You have two pick-up point

anywhere. Particularly with Munster. Remember, the Ospreys have lost a

lot of players to the internationals. I would be thinking,

I don't fancy that fixture. It is a tough time for the Welsh region. If

you look at the other side, it is tricky. When I looked at the Blues

sheet, with all the youngsters, and then the Italians, there have

realised, you have to tough it out a little bit. The Blues will be happy

that they did have a young squad. They will be very happy. When you

played the way to a weakened side, what is the mentality of a younger

set of players? Do you just go thinking, damage limitation? It is a

time for younger guys to put their hands up and claim their position.

Maybe from a coach's point of view, you have to go there and try to pick

up that bonus point. Great credit to the guys on the team. Woman onto the

premiership now and a round-up. - - moving on.

They came from behind to secure a win.

Swansea were hoping for a win. Brian Thomas's yellow card proved too much

for the visitors. Newport got a much-needed win

yesterday, piling on the pressure from start to finish. One yellow

card and one red card further added to the misery for Bridgend.

Crisp and field scored the first here. Carmarthen's lead at the top

is further cemented. The back to the Pro12 and highlights

of fried 's game between dragons and Leinster.

The defending champions arrived at Rodney Parade without 17 of Irish

internationals. The Dragons made eight changes to

the team that lost to the Ospreys, with Lewis Evans captaining the

side. John Cooney was then placed back

under pressure and then taken by Richie Rees.

Dominic Ryan was the one who came down in a deep -- in a heap.

REFEREE: that was dangerous play and it's a yellow card.

But to be aggressive, not passive. John Cooney tries to do. Under.

There is an injured man, Leinster are a man short.

It could be what -- it could well be Aaron Dundon who led that charge.

Noel Reid - they are just starting to look a little bit more

threatening. The Dragons have not been able to do

numbers. Zane Kirchner, men outside, and Noel

Reid canters through. That is a very, very well worked try.

The crowd are celebrating, but it was early, because the whistle had

gone, clearly. Pressure from John Cooney, again it

is available. It has spilled out and the chance has gone on for Dragons.

Leinster only have to clear the decks, John Cooney does, and the

Dragons have gone mighty, mighty close.

The guys are very disappointed, they have worked hard I have thanked them

for their effort and that is all you can ask. It is up to you how well

you play, and unfortunately unforced errors was what did for us tonight,

which was unfortunate. Elsewhere this weekend, Glasgow got

back to winning ways with a hard-fought win over Connacht at the

sports ground, and it backing behind to beat Zebre at Murrayfield.

Sean, we were at Rodney Parade on Friday night, and the manager looked

pretty despondent there. Given what you said earlier about

internationals being away, would the Dragons have targeted when win

there? Definitely, their home form has been

very good. They have been rubbing their hands at the time of year they

have been playing Leinster, and really it was a run fault. Handling

errors were too high on the night. As Michael it was their own fault.

They were suckered into that yellow card for Adam Jones and the one

chance Leinster had, they took it. That is what the good teams do, even

in the autumn period. The pick-up points on the road and that is why

it is important to home form is good enough.

it is important to home form is There was a special dinner at muddy

parade during the week to celebrate one of the most remarkable

achievements in Welsh rugby. -- at Rodney Parade.

It is autumn in Wales, the time of year 20 come from a long way away to

give us a beating. There has been the odd highlight. Llanelli beat New

Zealand, though they hardly mention it. 50 years ago to the day,

somewhere near this very spot, John Uzzell dropped the goal that beat

Wilson Whinneray's All Blacks. Gathered in that room up there, the

class of 63 have come to celebrate that magical day.

For the first time ever, and All Blacks side have gone down to

Newport. Inspired by their captain, Brian

Price... 50 years, and it's my birthday. I

have every reason to remember my birthday. What I great present I had

in 1963. Fly half, David Watkins!

To be part of the side that was to play against them was incredible. Of

course, to win the game at the end of the day was sensational and has

always lived with me. Right centre, John Uzzell.

Don Clarke, Colin Meads, Wilson Whinneray, Kel Tremain... They were

full of stars. To play against the All Blacks was a dream, really.

It was a midweek game played on a Wednesday afternoon, and they

streamed down from the valleys to support their boys.

No room at Rodney Parade this afternoon.

I didn't go to work that day, that shows how important it was. I had

the day off to play in this match. Everything was focused on that day.

I actually remember quite a lot about it. Funny about New

Zealanders, we remember the losses more than the wins.

History told us that there were no easy games in Wales.

This is it, the famous war dance, the Hakka.

We just did not fire a shot on the day and were well beaten. We were

probably a bit underprepared for what was going to hit us. The Welsh

passion and the way they play the game.

And through come the new port forwards, there is one of the props,

David Jones. Dai Watkins cut a few keepers even

in the muddy conditions. As only he could do. -- cut a few capers.

Right then into the 25... His job was to put the ball down the

diagonal, meeting Don Clarke run towards the touchline, and David

steps to it for all of 15 minutes! After 15 minutes he set off on his

own 22. Here goes Watkins on the outside

break! Of course, now we were running

forward and the All Blacks had to turn, it meant that we won the rock.

Bob Prosser took the ball, ran with it and threw it out to me.

The next thing I looked, years stepping inside, what is he doing? !

And I had just dropped the ball, it was just instant.

Everybody was anticipating, is it going over or not two everyone for

that split second stood and watched this poll wobbling its way towards

the crossbar. It wasn't until I heard the crowd I

realised the ball had gone over. He had probably cleared it by about

six inches. Instead of me going across and

giving it a rocket for not putting Dennis in the corner, I had to slap

him on the back and say well done! All of New Zealand know about

Newport, because they beat the All Blacks.

A magnificent achievement from Newport, and if you want to see more

of that there is an extended version of that feature online.

Jonathan, where does that rank in the annals of history?

It is up there with the best. Even in Llanelli?

To beat the All Blacks, right, all international players have tried.

Whenever anyone beats the All Blacks, they have a celebration.

That is how special it is, because it is very rare.

Still talking about it 50 years on, and rightly so.

We haven't got the All Blacks for Wales this autumn, South Africa next

as we mentioned earlier. We have a few moments to talk about selection

headaches, one which will be giving Warren Gatland some sleepless nights

is Gethin Jenkins, probably the man in possession. Your old colleague,

Paul James, possibly a better scrummage option?

Yes, Gethin Jenkins is Warren Gatland's number one. We talked

earlier about Warren rewarding players for what he'd -- they do.

Paul has to play out of his skin in bat so he can be there. Especially

with the power of South Africa. -- play out of his game in Bath. I have

watched Paul this year, and I think the loose-heads are in a fitting

more so than the tape heads and he is taking advantage.

He is a good tackler, so I think Paul would be my choice.

The bench have been important. Gethin Jenkins on the bench, he

comes on and is a world-class player.

The good thing is, both guys are on form, both deserve to be there, so

if one comes on, it'll just strengthen the team.

It is the same with the fullback, Cuthbert is out. You try someone

like Walker, or Williams, someone who is playing well?

He has played on the wing a lot of times for Wales.

There are only two specialist wingers in this squad.

They have to put width on it, that is what they have to do, move and

spread the side about. The All Blacks captain said even in

the championship this year they are massive, but if you move about they

do blow-up about ten minutes into the half. It will catch up to you,

if you are about to size it will catch up to you. Wales have to play

the basics well, they have to move well, and I think outside the number

13 channel, the fullback has to hit lines and ask questions of the South

African midfielder. It will be very interesting.

One thing we have not picked up on, the timing of the season. For them

it is the end of the season, for our guys it is the middle. There will be

a couple more niggles in their team, they will be tired, they are looking

to get these games out of the way to have their time. We have to exploit

that and start strong as we have done in the past, we did it in 2010.

Are the battle hardened or tired? Yes! They are battle hardened, you

have to watch it. You see these boys in training and it takes its toll.

Sam was saying he has felt the best since the World Cup.

We have a second row, Ian Evans has not played for a while, he must be

fresh. They are second best in the world,

and they will take some beating. If we play well we can beat them.

We have to leave it there, but we will continue this debate in earnest

on Scrum V extra time, which starts as soon as this programme finishes.

Make sure you tune in for more rugby chat and next Saturday all eyes will

be focused on the Cathedral of Welsh rugby. Good night.

It is that time again. Every year we come. A pilgrimage. Because, in this

earth, we believe. In this errors, our dreams are harvested. We are of

this land. Wherever we sit, we are behind them.

And on this soil, side-by-side they stand, rooted like giant trees.

And the earth beneath these men vibrate to the rhythm of the beating

heart of a land and people ready to unite. Around this piece of our

earth.