21/10/2011 Scrum V

After seven weeks, seven games, one red card, one nation brought to its

feet, whale sperm that world Cup adventure has come to an end.

Australia were a step too far, but is this end just a beginning for

Warren Gatland's young guns? There is something special happening. We

have got to take it that there is something special happened. To have

that experience, it will stand them in a great place.

Good evening, welcome to the final Scrum V special. Wales lose to

Australia, but it has been a roller-coaster.

Yes, at our expert panel will be reviewing all of Wales' World Cup

campaign, and we will hear the views of this man. We will hear

from our man in New Zealand as well. Welcome to Auckland, we will

reflect on the match last night, the tournament as a whole, and we

look ahead to the final tomorrow. That is all in the company of the

man who played for Wales and the All Blacks.

Please welcome our special guest, Tommy Bowe, Gareth Edwards, Matthew

Welcome. Great to see you, Ireland beat Australia, but it was one game

too far. That was one of the main highlights of our tournament,

beating the Aussies. The Welsh have had a fantastic tournament. They

played a lot of rugby. They made a few areas, they might have been

tired, compared to a lot of the new fellas. Disappointing, but

everybody should be proud. We have talked about the physicality, what

happened to the attacking or Welsh side? We saw more errors today than

we have seen in most of the tournament. Also, the set piece

scrum was under pressure. You have got to give credit to the

Australians, they attacked us in the scrum, they closed Jamie

Roberts down. That is credit to the way they defended. Australia were

desperate to win, equally so to Wales. Given the disappointment of

losing in the semi-final, how difficult was it for those boys to

pick themselves up? Very difficult. Losing to France last weekend,

bearing down to 14 men for the duration of the game, the boys gave

it their all. People do not realise how a group -- how tough the group

was, and that will have an effect. That was proven this morning. There

were some tired boys out there. Australia made eight changes, they

freshened things up. It was called the Bronze Final, but it felt like

an anti-climax. Yes come up when you have lost, we can see that, but

at the time, Wales wanted to win, they wanted a tangible return. It

should not detract from what they have achieved. We should still look

to them as he rose, they have done very well. The difference of having

to win and wanting to win might have been the difference, and it

was those small mistakes that cost us dearly. We saw more of it today

than we have seen in the last month. They were small margins, but you

have got to make the most of your kicking opportunities, and you

cannot keep turning the ball over. We saw that this morning. We have

got plenty to talk about. Gareth This was disappointed.

disappointing. The crux of things, when you play against the best

teams, you need specialist players playing in specialist positions. I

will not point the finger at individuals, I am speaking about

the collective, we were found out as regards the strength in depth.

We have got to talk about kicks. Two games ago, there was no problem

with converting our opportunities. When you play against the best

teams in the world, you have got to take advantage of every opportunity.

Everybody is disappointed with the game. But as coaches, we are

stressing, let's not let this one game overshadow of the good work

that has taken place before tonight and before last week. The youth

coming through in the system and in the squad, they are overpowering

the elder statesman, who are carrying more baggage than the

younger members. They have shown their true colours. I am sure that

has come across to the public in Wales and to you as broadcasters.

There is a calmness about things, there is a result, a confidence

that is slowly building up. We have not been successful on this

occasion, and perhaps it is a mark of a team that they are

disappointed that they came fourth when they know they could have come

third quite easily, or been second, and they are experiencing this so

early in their career. It could be the next World Cup or the World Cup

after that, or the one after that. To have that experience, it stands

Welsh rugby in a great place. Those of the thoughts of the coach,

these are the statistics. I was disappointed with the result

today, we are missing too many kicks. We all saw it. Quite

impressive, the figures. Nothing wrong with the scrum and line-out,

but they were not putting the The territory is disappointing.

Let's look at the combined statistics for the tournament, very

healthy. Warren Gatland will be pleased with that. Compare that

with the Six Nations! We have got things to build on. These were in

the top three. George North has made a great name for himself. Mike

Phillips, again, back to his old form. Toby Faletau, one of the men

of the tournament. Outstanding contribution. Luke Charteris was

there as well. Superb, despite a day.

Warren Gatland had to shuffle his back row. They looked entirely

different without Sam Warburton. Was it a mistake not to take a

replacement seven in the squad? do not think so. Ilott has been

made of that, but your back row is almost always as good as your front

five. Toby is at his most effective carrying. If you play him at No. 8,

he has the freedom to play with the back three, but I thought Ryan

Jones had one of his best games today. The competition has come

through them now. They are not old men, they have got another World

Cup in them. Within the squad, the amount of competitiveness breeds

into the game. If you have got a competitive squad, if you have got

a competitive team. Fattish a rink. It would have been nice to have

seen to be with the ball in his hand, but we will never know.

was going on with the slower ball? The Australian defence was

outstanding, the players have brought in that energy, they have

got speed, and because this havoc. -- they caused this havoc. We

missed Sam Warburton massively in terms of the contact area. Again,

with Adam out of the scrum, Paul has had experience at tight head,

but his preferred position is loose head. We came unstuck. You cannot

fault Australia for their great defence. When you come up against a

class act, you know you're in for again. It is all about balance and

being on the front foot. So much pressure coming from the Aussies.

We did not look like we had a great difference, but it makes the

difference for the back row. There is nothing better than going

forward. That is what made it difficult for Wales. Jamie was

getting nailed in midfield. We could not get the ball back quickly

so that our backs could work at it. It sounds easy, but once they had

the bit between their teeth, they were difficult to shake off.

statistics are brittle, Wales lost by one point, one. And three points.

When you get chances to kick at goal, you have got to take them.

course. That has never been a problem in Wales. The past couple

of games, people have pointed the finger is, and at this level, you

have to take your chances, and that is going to come down to goal-

kicking, which is disappointing. Wales showed the quality they have,

they scored some great tries, their defence was at standing, it is

disappointing it has come down to a few small errors and missed kicks.

The boffins have been at work, Stephen Jones leads the way as far

as the goalkicker stats are concerned. 87% success rate. James

Hook slotted 53%. They would have been working with those players.

You either pick somebody for their goal-kicking... Maybe you make a

compromise and you pick somebody for goal-kicking at this level.

That success rate is not good enough. We know James Hook is a

good kicker, but under pressure in that environment, you need players,

Jonny Wilkinson, Neil Jenkins, Ronan O'Gara, they are the

difference. The team have been outstanding in every aspect, they

have been competitive in every area, the only area that has let them

down is the cakes. I want to go to New Zealand. We built this game up,

but in the end, it was a damp squib. Interesting to hear a good talking

about the cakes, because last night, kicking was dominating the topic of

conversation. We have two guests this morning, Shane Howarth and

Paul Race. The kicks, in the end, was that the difference? Definitely.

The last three matches, they missed 10 out of 17. You lose games by a

couple of points, that is what has cost them. Is it the ruthless

streak that the southern-hemisphere has? You cannot put that down to

the kicking. James Hook was struggling a little bit. The Welsh

went away from the formula that got them to the quarter-finals. That is

the more important point. They went away from the game that got them to

the quarter-finals. Was that partly because they were without Adam

Jones and Sam Warburton, specialist positions? Last night, they played

too narrow, they played Australia into the 15, but we have seen them

go wide, and that is when they have been at their best. It was not

until the last minute, when Leigh Halfpenny scored, but they had gone

wide. Before that, it was easy for the Australians to defend, because

the Welsh try to play of the middle. Australia, the try Mason's

champions -- each way Nations champions, they should not be

underestimated. The defeat gets narrower, but they need to get

wider. Turnovers were a bit of a problem. It is a great shame,

because up until the France game, Wales had played some of the best

rugby of the tournament. They were sharper tactically, they buried

their game astutely, and it is a shame that the sending off and the

injury of Rhys Priestland seems to have cost them. Rhys Priestland

suddenly so sorely missed in a match, the younger guard have come

through, and they used at some of the older guard.

-- but they took over from some of Did Wales run out of steam today?

think key features were missing today. First was the scrum. Jones

was sorely missed. Robinson has been very effective. And with Sam

Warburton, the contact area has been another feature of the game,

and also they have been able to generate speed. He has been in to

man -- instrumental in doing that. Your players have had a fabulous

World Cup. I am very proud of these guys. They started the journey

towards the end of last season and a finishing the season in the Welsh

squad. It means a lot to them to play for Wales and I am so proud to

them demonstrating skills they have on that stage. Are you ready to put

the phone down on some clubs after your players? I will have to keep

people away now! And the some good guys. Thank you, Darren Edwards!

Great to see years. 24 years after they met in the first final of the

Rugby World Cup, France and New Zealand meet again on Sunday.

From the New Zealand perspective, only one set of faces has mattered.

There has only been one colour and it has been everywhere, even if

some of them did not make it. The profile of the All Blacks has never

been higher. The fall from grace if they were to lose would be greater

than the previous five World Cups and they are up against the World

Cup nemesis. The Australians have a particular

grip. That was demonstrated in 1999. We've played France and athletic

park in Wellington and the score was 54-3 to the All Blacks and two

months later, there was a massive victory to France in a semi kind

will -- a semi-final of the World Cup, at so we know how difficult it

will be. New Zealand-born and the World Cup 24 years ago and beat

France. The fame and acclaim would be instantaneous in the 21st

century. In the last few weeks, he has not been able to play much but

has kept his performance high because he can play the game in his

head. New Zealand have a heart of week embrace the World Cup. Defeat

and another failure would be of apocalyptic proportions. Is we did

blow it, do not mention it -- if we did. The depressive quality would

be huge. So many people absolutely certain this weekend is ours. A do

not want to think about that. not sure, it is not the end of the

world. Some people feel that way. I do not want to go down that track,

to be honest. You have to suck it up and perform and do it. Were at

about the French? New Zealand has admired them for their dashing

style of play. Until now, the free abandon on the field is one thing,

off it, especially define your isolated coach, is another. This -

these players, according to one player, are not fit to lick the

boots of the players before them. But they could still provide a kick.

They have the ability to play outstanding rugby and they have

done that in the past. And they will have nothing to lose on

Saturday and they will play well. They may turn up in true French

fashion and, here we go! In New Zealand win on Sunday, expect to

hear the roar from Auckland in Wales. Sunday should be about one

set of faces and one country. After waiting 24 years, the stadium of 4

million is ready to celebrate. And give the 1999 and 2007, I

suppose if there is one team left the All Blacks fear, that is France.

This is a classic French try that shows you write them off at your

of thing they can do. Length of the field, what a try! And the one

brave series, both those test matches to win the series. -- and

Everything he said it is just right, Graham Henry. Everybody is saying

the French do not deserve to be here, but they do not care, they

are in the final. It is a worry when everyone is saying they are

the worst in the tournament, it is a worry for New Zealand. As much as

Graham Henry will be telling his troops what he said, the media will

be thinking the All Blacks will win against France.

You play against the French. Marc Lievremont has fallen out with his

players and they are in the Rugby World Cup final, how?

It is a puzzle to me. To lose two games, how they have got through to

the final is crazy. But they are the and the Northern hemisphere

team New Zealand were worry about. They have gone down and beaten them

on their home patch in the last couple of years. New Zealand

embarrassed them earlier in the tournament and I think they should

be worried. My head thinks New Zealand will win comfortably, but I

would love to go and see France Paul -- put on a real fight. I

would be upset if they were third tonight.

I was in Rome at the end of March when Italy did the reigning Grand

Slam champions France, they were a mess. And here they are in the

Rugby World Cup final. That is French rugby. The boys have covered

it. New Zealand are overwhelming favourites. We have always said

this is theirs to lose. Even if France play their best rugby they

have played all year, let alone in the last month, I still think New

Zealand have enough to beat them. But at their peril. And that is the

beauty of Sunday's game. Absolutely. Back to allow a man in

New Zealand. It is crunch time for Graham Henry. -- our man.

It's his. I will come on to the theories about the French. New

Zealand, we will talk about them first. How far away will Graham

Henry have to emigrate if it does not happen tomorrow? You will see

him back up in Wales', probably! -- Wales. There are probably over 3

million people from New Zealand watching knowing what they have in

store tomorrow night, and I believe given how much the All Blacks have

been bitten of the last few World Cups, they are different be focused.

I think that will stand them in good stead. New Zealand, everybody

will think it will be easy. That is not the way they look at it in the

All Blacks. We have spoken about this a lot, this French arguing

behind the scenes. But you have a theory. It has got to be a stunt.

To allow players to rant and rave about the coach and vice versa, it

is a queasy French tactic. -- crazy. There was an independent report we

New Zealand lost in 2007 and one finding was that the All Blacks on

never more vulnerable than when they're public is over-confident of

victory, and France are looking to tap into that that they are jokers

and they have no chance. But they are not when you look at them on

paper. They have played the Biarritz way so far, but they have

the capacity to play like to lose. And if they turn up on Sunday, it

will make a game for them. -- Toulouse. France side will turn --

you never know which French team is going to turn up.

You have to give me �5 for saying that!

I will pay you, do not worry. Bad is a warning, at no more, I do

not know which French team will turn up! -- that is.

This is what the fans think. All the way from New Zealand, give

it up! Pet is less than 36 hours to go, how are you feeling? -- there

is. Tense, nervous, tight. All of those things. Perfectly relaxed and

ready to take on them, even though we are not playing Wales. Is the

whole country feeling that way? speak for all off them everywhere

and there are more living outside the country can hear. But we all

know for certain there are only two teams in this tournament. They

might be blamed the French, but we would prefer to be playing Wales. -

- they might be playing. Can you even contemplate losing? No more

than anybody else. And he started this world -- and we started this

World Cup talking about Dan Carter, now it is about Piru Weepu.

would give him the best support we can. He fills out the short quite

well at the back! Toby Faletau has been nominated for Rugby World Cup

tournament player. I gave him the boot. Outstanding for... They have

embraced him as a Welshman and from the Pacific islands, I would like

to present him with this small token of our rugby appreciation.

Outstanding work. I am sure he would love that. We have loved a

He is a top man. That is the Rugby World Cup Final, but he would make

the team of the tournament? -- who would.

It is an absolute pleasure to be asked to pick the team of the

tournament. Let me share why. A lot of red-shirts and deservedly so.

What a centre partnership. He would defend against those two. -- he

would defend against those two? What a set of backs. But they lead

a pack -- they need a pack in front to deliver quality Boll -- ball. No

team can represent this tournament without Adam Jones. Luke Charteris

has been phenomenal. And we have two more Welshmen, Toby Faletau,

and Warburtons. That is the perfect pack. They have impressed everyone

and I am sure most people would agree with the team I have selected.

Find out what the panel thinks. I could not see... Starting with you,

Matthew. Sam Warburton. That is a tight call. He has been struggling

with injury and has not been able to train, but he has fronted up on

the game days. Sam Warburton has just come on the black and has led

Wales really well in this campaign. And will be there for many more

years. Kingsley has his coach's head on and discerning, what is he

doing? Castrogiovanni, Adam Jones. Castrogiovanni has been outstanding.

This is a bit red and black! I would agree with Luke Charteris. I

do not know how you can leave David Pocock out of the team. What about

his scrum-half? I agree with that. I think he has stood up. I think

Mike deserves a place. Rhys Priestland, when he played. Not

many disagreements elsewhere. But Castrogiovanni certainly. I know

from my experience he scored four tries from scrum, two turnover

scrums. I he came off against you and the game changed. And think in

the past playing against him, if you let him get on top of you, they

are a very difficult team to beat. But we really went after him. He

came off after 35 minutes, which was a -- which was a huge bonus for

Two right-wingers. I should be in there! It is a strong side, it is

very Welsh, obviously! He did not put his boy in there! Can I ask a

scrum half what you think of the joys? There is only one guy. As

well as Piri Weepu played... He has been one of the outstanding scrum-

halves of the tournament, but Mike Phillips every time. I would have

thought you would have had a tough job, putting Lloyd in! I am going

to agree! Happy birthday! Time to catch up with Eddie Butler. His

Here we are, it is what we always wanted, to go to Eden Park at the

end of October, for a final. Not the one we wanted, but still, here

we go. The missed drop goal, but how we Schalke the Rugby World!

Then, what a good second half in the next game. Nigel Irvine's

should never have been given eight game with Wales in that group.

Still, Namibia, all I remember, the mountain coming out and George

North running like a loon. Then, Fiji, what happened to them? The

teams that did not turn up. Fiji, England! Then, Ireland in the

quarter-final. It was supposed to be the dream ticket. They beat

Australia, we lost to South Africa, one of us was bound to go through.

But it was not so. Two bright sides, and one had to go out. And then,

there was France, I still find it hard to talk about it. Too much has

been said about referees, too many referees in general. Why not have a

competition about referees? Whatever happened to the unseen,

unheard referee? There was another Finn, the missed a drop goal. We

missed one against South Africa, and against France, it went away as

well. Here we are, back at Eden Park. We are disappointed not to be

here for the Grand Final, and that says a lot about what Wales have

done. The boys have been absolutely magnificent. One more time! Eden

Park, we can say goodbye to wit. Fourth at the World Cup. It is

still pretty good. We need Adam Jones, but we knew that before we

came. We need Sam Warburton. We sort of knew that. We need Rhys

Priestland, goodness me! We did not know that! What they find he has

been! Without him, we do not block the same at all. George North ran

his heart out and he was sensational. Shane Williams

finished with a try. It was probably a forward pass! But it was

courageous to the end, inventive to the end, we ran out of steam, we

ran out of players, but all in all, that was a good World Cup.

Let's go live to New Zealand. The performance of the Welsh team has

galvanised this country, the whole country was united last week, but

all we are here rig here is that the New Zealanders have got behind

Wales as well. Yes, they have almost become the

unofficial adopted team, because of the way they have played the game.

Respect has been a really big word, that Wales have not had from New

Zealand in the past. I think they have it now. Warren Gatland was

quiet until after the semi-final, which helped! He has had a prickly

one at New Zealand as before. The way they played. Also, the way they

conducted themselves. After the semi-final, 4 million people did

not agree with the referee. That was a measure of the young boy.

Listening to Sam Warburton speak, sea and the respect that other

players have got, it will stand him in good stead. It was unfortunate

they could not get across the line. With the way they have played and

conducted themselves... Warren Gatland had a lot to say,

particularly looking forward, but he might start pensioning off some

of the older players before the Six Nations. But that is a big risk,

because the props, T he -- he does not have many options. There are

some old players for New Zealand and Argentina. For Wales, there is

a small pool. You freshen up, but you want to keep players for as

long as they have got something. Consistency is key, we have seen

what they can do here, they cannot let this drop now. A lot of players

will still be there in 2015. This experience will do them well. You

look at the All Blacks, they have kept this side through the

tournament. It has got them to the final. You cannot take away World

Cup experience. It is a young side, and I would hate to think how good

they will be in 2015. Who would have thought, Wales make the final

weekend, and whatever happens, what a position for them to be in and to

The boys have just been talking about Warren Gatland, what next?

Four years ago, when Welsh rugby was in disarray, it was to this man

they turned for salvation. Roger Lewis scarlet the group. Warren

Gatland was on top of his wish-list. In the blink of an eye, he turned

18 crashed into one that would sweep all before them at the next

Six Nations. 18 of Grand Slam winners. As expectations were

raised, performances slumped. They finished fourth for the next three

years. Many questioned the wisdom of extending his contract for

another four years. How that confidence has been repaid. He has

an unshakeable faith in his ability and in the players he picks. He has

never shied from making controversial calls. Rhys

Priestland was third choice before the World Cup. An injury to Stephen

Jones gave him a chance, and he took it. The campaign has made

Warren Gatland a target, but he has moved quickly to dispel any rumours.

He is signed until the next World Cup, and he intends to stay. He has

called this tournament a watershed, a journey to the next one starts

now. I had a chat with him after the

England home game, and there was a remarkable confidence about him. He

was talking about the younger players, how they have galvanised

the older players. Have you been surprised how well they have done?

Yes. I thought the quarter-finals were realistic. Ireland beating

Australia turn the tournament around. I thought Ireland would be

too experienced. To perform as we have done, Warren Gatland deserves

a massive amount of credit. 75% of the jobless election. -- the job

his selection. A lot of coaches her on the side of experience, he has

given young men chances. They have stepped up. The other coaches are

there to work on the defence and the tactics. He has done a

fantastic job, nobody can question that. The other person who should

take credit is Roger Lewis. The union did criticism for offering

Warren Gatland a four-year deal before a World Cup. It was a smart

piece of business. A calculated risk, well done. He was the man he

wanted for the next four years, but also, I think they should be credit

to the regions, because they have not come out of a spaceship. They

have come up through the academies. We knew that Sam Warburton would be

special a few years ago, the way he was practising with the senior

players. Everybody has contributed, and we should be very proud. There

is a campaign on Twitter to save Sean, because his contract is

running out. How important is he? Very important. He has Porton a

structure which works well. -- porter in a structure. If you want

to win trophies, defence will be key to that. That was shown in 2008.

The defence has been outstanding debt. He works well with Warren

Gatland, and it is important to keep them together. We would have

preferred it if you were wearing the red of Wales. You were injured.

Did you get a sense that they were on to something special? Definitely.

I went to the camps in Poland, you could see it building. I was

disappointed to drop out of the squad in August, but we had three

tough games against England and Argentina, and you could see that

the boys were on the verge of something special. The biggest

thing, the youngsters have done a great job. Her blue they will be

there for many years, and we will only use a couple of players --

only lose a couple of players. played against them, we talked

about how fit they look. A lot of the boys in previous years, they

would have played against Ireland in the past, but this year, the

defence was exceptional, they all stood up to the plate. Going

forward, it will be exciting for Welsh rugby, it will be good for

the regions, they will be coming back, they will be focusing on the