Episode 8 Scrum V

Battered, be run and brood. No tries, no line breaks -- beaten.

Six Nations champions are humbled by Argentina. As step backwards.

One game down and three to go. We will have to dust ourselves off

fine comeback better. Good evening. Welcome to Scrum V and it was a

desperately disappointing day for Wales yesterday. Robert Jones and

Shane Howarth are here to assess Shane Howarth are here to assess

the damage. First, we look back at the match.

COMMENTATOR: Again, the devil from the fly-half. And that is-Wales. --

high. It was a clumsy tackle, more than anything. That was well-struck.

First blood to the Pumas. Felipe the Welsh and they won the penalty.

It should be three straightforward points. But we know the

Argentinians come to scrummage. It is meat and drink to them. That was

confident from Leigh Halfpenny. The scoreline is level. The forward

pack rumbling up to the 22. Very deep. Bury easy for the defensive

line to come up. The drop goal from Sanchez. Nicolas Sanchez. The

Argentine defence holding firm. They have any injury on the left.

Wales have to go wide. That is very disappointing for Argentina. And

indeed for rugby fans. After 13 minutes, Felipe Contepomi takes a

bow. And it is another clean strike from Leigh Halfpenny. He is in the

They came through the middle, which was OK. Juan Jose Imhoff had plenty

of pace. And a knock-on. Unfortunately for Argentina. But

good hands. Created the space. Juan Jose Imhoff. He lost control on the

ground. A disappointing end to a turbulent week. And fortunate. He

just catches their head on the chin. Leigh Halfpenny to move them back

Argentina, going back to basics with their forward. Wales are not

committing any men. That was absolutely superb. And look at this

on the counter-attack. That was a great tackle. By Gonzalo Camacho.

Using the touchline as the extra a clean pair of heels. This is

danger for the Welsh. A great tackle. What a tackle. The tackle

had to be made. And another injury. Jones is going off. Very slow.

Matthew Rees trying to inject advantage for Wales, so it is a

has not looked like missing this goal again. And it is two 4 Sanchez.

for the try. Fabulous from Juan Jose Imhoff. And Argentina break

the deadlock. That was no surprise. Fernandez Lobbe was straight in

there. Juan Jose Imhoff, great support play, off the right foot.

The Welsh are starting to fall off tackles. They are getting over the

Fernandez Lobbe. The Welsh defence splintering. A penalty is coming

it is a try in a corner. What a biggish if he has got that over. --

finish. That is a great finish. Much more bite and devil to the

Argentinian back play, now. They look likely to score again, not

Wales. Composed in possession as well. And that was inside the Welsh

Another penalty for Argentina. is a hammer blow for Wales, it is

good. And suddenly, the gap is Argentina's slowing the ball down.

for it. Coming back from a high tackle. They wanted a quick ball.

Another good play. Isolated. They got off the floor before anyone

else. What an opportunity with three men waiting outside in,

Robert McCusker. We weren't allowed to do them this afternoon. Also, we

could have been more accurate. We knew it would be an arm wrestle and

we lost out. But our skills under pressure were not good enough and

Argentina scored two tries, good offloads and well done to them.

It's is important for us playing in Cardiff against an excellent team

like Wales. I think we played well. We have a lot of experience in the

Rugby Championship and the main aim was to continue that, learning and

growing up. I think today it was a big step forward. I am happy.

disappointed. They alluded to the fact we did not do the basics well.

We found it difficult to get my game going. We will have to come

back and have a good luck at the video. -- good luck. We will have

to pick ourselves up. It is not the best start. New work hard -- you

work hard in training and put things right. Now we are one game

down and three to go, we have to dust ourselves off and come back

better men. The players will be fine at getting themselves back up.

It is a massive challenge but it will be something we look forward

to. It will be a test of character D Some scathing criticism from the

press and fans, aimed a t the team yesterday. One national newspaper

calling it a calamity. I would not call it that. It was a

disappointing performance. I think we are so used to these players,

when they represent Wales and put on the Welsh Jersey, they are

different players. There is energy and desire. That, I think, was

missing yesterday. Argentina were impressive. You have to take your

hat off to them and dominated the game from start to finish. I think

most Welsh fans were expecting Argentina to win - were you?

fear of being shot, I talked to a couple of people on the morning of

the game and I thought Argentina would win. On the back of - I am

not sure how much credit was given to them. Even now n the aftermath

it is about how bad Wales were, not about how good Argentina was. Rugby

championship has served them well, apart from a test against the All

Blacks, they had a thumping. I am not sure how much respect was given

to these players. I am not saying so much by the Welsh team, but by

the public and press. Looking at the stats in Wales - a telling one,

one is that Wales only got into the Argentina 22 twice in the game.

They could not get a foot-hold? They would not. They really set the

tone from the outset. Their ain't to chase well, form great kicks and

you have one of the smallest men in the Argentinean back line.

Immediately Wales were under pressure. Again, a similar

circumstance, second half. The ball goes long. It is beautifully

weighted. The drive and the energy that was miss from the Welsh side

was evidence in Argentina. They pinched the ball. Immediately they

are on the attack. That was the contrast - they got on

the front foot and Wales, more often than not, were on the back

foot. Wales's main strike runners are so used to seeing crossing the

line, were mollifyed. Evidence that Argentina had done their homework.

Back-line players, they were analysed. An example here from the

line-out. You have Jamie Roberts and George North, both here in

potentially ball-carrying situations. The number of

Argentinean players here that nullifyed that was fantastic. You

have the line and then all the momentum is with Argentina. A quick

ball being delivered. It's all about leg speed, leg drive, players

behind him. A beautifully worked move.

The second half, in Wales, does not get any better. They read the

get any better. They read the situation. It is three or four

yards behind where they started and that was constant throughout the

game. The area, which we have spoken about was won hands down by

Argentina. The defensive work was fantastic. Credit needs to be given

to Argentina, they were superior in virtually every facet of the game

and taking their chances when they came their way. Through attack, by

nominating collision, the first example here - this try. Most

blind-side wingers would develop back and not be used.

Imhoff is there. A beautiful offload there. There's him off

there. As I said, a lot of wingers and, whatever level -- in whatever

level of rugby, would have dropped back. He doesn't. He senses a break.

That is the different with them. I will talk more about it later. We

have known them for this, we have known them for the drive, drive.

The old Argentina would have tried to batter it over. It is a

different breed. I don't think there was respect, as I talked

there was respect, as I talked influence there. They keep it alive.

A lovely ball out, in what was a good finish from Camacho.

Good on ar gin Tina and they are doing a heck of a job. How much

influence? You have not seen them off-load, you have not seen them

dominate the collisions. In attack they are starting to play with

flare. They are going the right way. For those of yo who did not know

Graham Henry was helping out in a consultancy role. A lot of stick

this week over selection issues, over when he was picking players on

reputation rather than form. A lot of criticism after the game now as

well. Did he get selection right? think he felt this was his best

side going into the game. There might have been a question mark

with Phillips. They felt when they come into the

environment that they have set up within the Welsh camp, these

players lift their game. When they put on the Welsh skrersy, as I said

yerl -- jersey, as I said earlier, their form came in the

international game yesterday. That is a big disappointment. There are

players who are playing well. We have to consider that and take that

on board. It is not just about reputation any more. It is about

players who are firing and performing and this week there was

a selection delem ma. -- dilemma. Scotland got under way with the

toughest opening assignment - New Zealand were the visitors, to

from Visser. Visser will score for Scotland.

Through goes Carter. A lovely dive for Israel Dagg.

Once more, they come, on to Smith Blacks take it once again.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 90 seconds

This time it is Cory Jane who gets minutes after the final whistle. I

asked if the All Blacks were as good as that score line suggested.

I thought the All Blacks were magnificent. Their basic skills and

they are so clinical when opportunities arise, that you

cannot, you know, give them a second. You have to pressurise them

all the time. Scotland did that, at long phases

of play and they scored a couple of nice tries. They forced some errors

out of them. The All Blacks will get better and they will be very,

very difficult to beat, without a shadow of a doubt they are the best

side in the world, by a long way at the moment. It will take a very,

very good side to beat them because they are strong all over the pitch.

Moving on to Wales, and the dust has settled - 24 hours on, what are

your thoughts? There was not a spark there. They were very

lethargibg. They are a better side than they showed yesterday. They

did not have many ball-carriers there. They did not go forward.

Argentina won the contact area. We had a few opportunities out wide,

but the running, the depth was wrong and we didn't bring form to

the game. Once Jamie Roberts went off, we had no goes forward. It was

a standstill. We have to improve a lot by next week, but because of

this defeat, the pressure is on Wales because the Sam moians now

will be really -- Samoans now will be really looking forward to it.

lot on Twitter about Wales's performance yesterday. Were you

surprised not just at the defeat, but the manner of the defeat?

I was. I felt once the momentum went to Argentina and finishing by

both wingers, we did not look threatening. We have looked

threatening in previous seasons. Yesterday, as I said, I don't know

what happened. You know, we just were very, very

flat. We needed to pick up the game. Pick the tempo up. They will look

to exploit our weaknesses in defeat as well. We have to pick the tempo

That was not the All Blacks first 15. Steve Henson has made it clear

the boys have two games before they have the top side. He will bring

his top side against Wales. Make no mistake about that. A change for

Italy - probably 13 changes. Rob, looking at that then - how big is

the gulf between New Zealand and the rest? I think they are

seriously at the moment heads and shoulders above. The depth they are

is incredible, as we have witnessed today. You can bring mid-field

players in who have the same skill, sector and ability as your top

players. Dan Carter is so relaxed. To me, the best fly-half in the

world, probably the best rugby player in the world. They just have

so much about them - up front, behind. They are better than any

side in the world by some distance. They become renowned as the

greatest half-back pairing Wales has ever produced. It is 45 years

to the day they first pulled on the red Jersey and played together.

Barry and John were on the losing side that day. As we all know it

was the start of a beautiful would be a miracle if he could!

Edwards. Can he get there. Barry John has scored. Images like those

are etched on the minds of all Welsh rugby fans. The skill and

strength of Gareth Edwards, the grace of Barry John - an

irresistible combination. Scrum V reunited the maestro and the king.

Our paths really crossed in that trial. I remember we had been

chosen to play opposite one and other. I must tell everybody, it

was a very tumble paraise. It had been pelting down with rain

another trial in Swansea. And it was well documented. If you

remember, I was concerned about my passing and I rang due and asked if

there was a chance of a run-out. Again, and weather, every time we

met it was awful and it was on that Sunday. We were out there and I was

slipping and sliding. After ten minutes, I said I will catch it.

Against New Zealand in 1967. Brian Lochore was the captain of the

wonderful side. Our I remember sharing a room. Breakfast in the

morning. Toast and you would have become of tea. Toast and honey.

was on the marmalade and coffee! Preparation is so different, isn't

it? Right down to Edwards, the Welsh scrum-half. Day did Watkins

had left to go to Salford. -- David. Our path was clear. I chipped in.

He has not thanked me. What do you remember? Terrible. People play now,

they would not know what it is all about. You used to run out to the

pitch and then would be puddles. They would be the colour of the

rainbow, because that is where the petrol dropped from their tractors,

trying to flatten it out. If you had a mouthful, you were in trouble.

COMMENTATOR: This is Gareth Edwards. He plays for Cardiff. He has given

the 15 rounds. It was a great drive by the Welsh forwards. They are

almost up to the line. Edward sat in John. The drop goal. It could be

there. -- Edwards out to John. couple of kicks. I missed a couple

of kicks. And he was not even taking kicks in those days. Norman

kicked a penalty. It is their! you remember the Welsh front row?

Denzil, Norman and Brian Thomas. They played him at prop because

they wanted a big front row. I think that front row showed the

expertise. You cannot just be big and strong, you have to have the

expertise. Today we are more aware of it. I am not qualified to talk

about that, or tackling. A couple of lovely straight backs in a row.

Brian Thomas. 16 stones and a bit against 17 stones and a bit. Almost

up to the line. Jones, just beaten by the role of the ball. And the

drop goal. Has he made it? It is over, all right. Eight -- eight-

three with nine minutes of the second half gone. The game fell

apart. One moment. The All Blacks had a penalty. We went there. We

messed it up. -- we were there. remember the huge disappointment of

not beating New Zealand. We have known for many years had difficult

they are. What I cannot believe, it is 45 years since that occasion.

Where has the time gone? Very quickly. It is amazing, when you

look back that you think it is that period of time. Five years and it

will be half-a-century! Shall we meet after five years' time? At

least we are still here. It is Grey memories. We can catch up with

the rest of the action. Ireland kicking off their series against

South Africa, but we start with the inside. Sharples trying to spin to

the line and he scores. Charlie Sharples get sit down for the first

try of the game. No time for the line-out, says the referee. And

straight in. For England to close out the first half. England getting

closer, making headway. Johnson flops over the line. For his first

down. Another try for Charlie Sharples and England hit 40 points.

He gets it in. In at the corner, passed the half-century. The second

row. Penalty advantage, island. Numbers advantage of the site they

Sexton. An early tackle. He came in like a flying missile. I think he

was already heading for the sin-bin and had to go back on to receive it.

Is he held up? A try is awarded. Back to Wales and things are not

going to get easier. Samoa next, who are a team intent on revenge.

They are on a high after their match against Canada. Our cameras

were up on a spying mission in north Wales.

It is a world first. Something that has not been done. To have her

double-header, full International. Joe Lydon has been working hard

with the International Rugby Board and trying to find people

supportive of the global game and as you have seen, the under 20 is

working with Conway Borough Council, getting a massive crowd together

and made love rugby here. There are If it was not for this opportunity,

I would not get my hand on these players until the Six Nations. --

hands. That is a long way to go at this level and also coaching, get

your hands on the players. In its is important that Samoa, Canada,

and others get their least this many Test matches a year. We played

USA and there were vice presidents of Russia involved in the changing-

rooms. Players at the right level, for five, making all the difference.

Ultimately, the USA were better. I hope we are better next week

against Canada. I have a week of preparation which I am positive

about. I had trek has taught us how they are helping these nations

become more competitive ahead of the World Cup. It gave us an

opportunity to check out the next opposition for Wales, and as we

know, these boys have caused more know, these boys have caused more

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 90 seconds

debutante. What an evening. They played it differently to what we

thought and gave the ball a lot of width. They had a scrambling about

but I thought we tried from the first whistle to the last and never

gave in. What we found with his squad is that not any two players

play in the same team so there are different styles and we want to

keep it simple. They got off to a good start. There is a big

challenge next Friday night. believe we can do it. Every time we

play well. The boys are excited to play in one of the biggest stadiums

in the world. They are the top team and they won the Grand Slam and

they have been up then, in the World Cup they got into the semi-

final. They have a depth in the team. It makes the challenge more

team. It makes the challenge more exciting.

Shane Howarth, you are a good friend. He was confident of Friday

night. I suggest after yesterday he will be rubbing his -- hands with

the. Quietly confident. I was involved in a game in 1999 and he

was involved in 1991. He is not unaware of how to beat Wales.

has done it twice and in Cardiff. will sit on the fence. Because they

will kill me whatever way ago. I am not in a great position. Maybe

experience will come in. You heard him say it is a big occasion the

Samoa, playing at the Millennium Stadium. If they can handle it and

stay composed, they have a chance of winning the game. You would lean

towards the big match temperament of Wales. I am on the fence. Some

injury news. It is not confirmed, the condition of Jamie Roberts and

Alun Wyn Jones, but they are likely to miss the Samoa game. Jonathan

Davies is thought to be in contention. This game has taken on

more significance than a week ago. There is a six day turnaround, does

Rob Howley have to pick the best side? He thought he'd picked the

best side for the Argentina game. He has to do it now, no matter what.

This is not about warm up games. This is about winning the match. He

has to put the best side on the field. What the best ideas remains

to be seen. He has to take regional form and club form into account and

look at those coming back from injuries. Ryan Jones might be

available. There is quality potentially coming back. If he

looks at regional form, there has been demands for the likes of

Justin Tipuric to start and others. Should you pick them? It his way

you played Justin Tipuric. Sam Warburton is the captain. Ryan

Jones will come into the frame. Toby Faletau played well yesterday.

Jones is on top of his game. You have to find a place. What goes

through a coach's mind when selecting a team, do you look at

reputation and big game temperaments, or is it those

performing best? Form is huge. The regions are not going as well in

the Heineken Cup. Form comes into it. What he has to be careful of,

Rob Howley, because there will be browbeating, they cannot go out and

think they will take them on that physically because that is what

Samoa wants. You have to be more creative. You need creativity to

beat sides like Argentina and Samoa. There is no more folding within 60