Amanda Holden Who Do You Think You Are?


Amanda Holden

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LineFromTo

Yeah. No, I really like that.

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Actor and presenter Amanda Holden is a well-known face on stage and TV,

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most famous for her role as a judge on Britain's Got Talent.

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She lives in West London with her husband, Chris,

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and their two daughters, Hollie and Lexie.

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But, growing up, her own family life wasn't so settled.

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When I was, I think, four or five, my parents divorced.

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My father was in the Navy, so I didn't see him,

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and I lost contact with his side of the family.

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The only thing I know about my paternal grandfather was that he

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was a male nurse, which, in itself, was fairly unique.

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That and the sad fact that he committed suicide.

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I'd love to find out about the kind of man he was

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before it all went so dark for him.

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Amanda also wants to investigate a family rumour

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-on her mother's side.

-My middle name is Louise,

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and my great-grandfather was called Louis.

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And I think there were lots of Louis before that.

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And my grandmother has always said,

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"Oh, it's because we're French, dear.

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"We're French." I would love it to be true.

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My mum and stepfather came to live in Cornwall about 15 years ago,

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and it's where all our ancestors are from.

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But I think the thing that really interests me is this rumour

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of a whole French side of the family.

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I would love to find a French connection.

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Amanda's mother, Judy,

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has been doing some research into their family's history.

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-Mum!

-Hello.

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I was standing by watching for that car.

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Now, that is me as a French person.

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That's right. Yeah.

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-I was obsessed with dressing up as French...

-I know you were.

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But it's stereotypical French.

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I don't think I've ever seen a person in a stripy T-shirt

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-with onions around his neck.

-And you won by winking at the judge.

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Winking at the judge.

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Which is a good tip for anybody that comes on Britain's Got Talent.

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-And you've never looked back, have you?

-No.

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Amanda knows that the name Louis

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crops up a lot in her mother's family.

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So this Louis, who is my great-grandfather,

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and your grandfather, that's Louis.

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And that was Nanny's dad.

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-Yeah.

-And wasn't he a brilliant swimmer?

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Oh, yes. He was.

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Actually, I've got...

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He won a trophy in 1913 for long distance swimming in Cornwall.

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Here. It says... What does it say? Can you read it?

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Yes. Let me just put it into the light.

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"Long distance swimmer, championship."

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-Oh, don't look in there.

-Why?

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-Because he's in there!

-What?!

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No, he is not!

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You are sick. Oh, my God.

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Judith! Let's put him over there.

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Anyway. Sorry, may he rest in peace.

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-So that's Nannie's dad.

-Yeah.

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He was a Louis.

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-That's right, yeah.

-And was his dad a Louis?

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-So how many greats?

-Hang on a minute.

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One, two, three, four...

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He was obviously the first Louis,

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because if you look further, that was the one that was born

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between Collin Thomas, who wasn't a Louis,

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-because...

-There was no Louis at that point.

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-He married this woman called Radegonde.

-A French woman.

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-Which we think...

-That's a funny name.

-I know.

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-Did you know what her surname was?

-No. No.

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-Radegonde?

-There's a census here, actually.

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Radegonde.

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This is the 1841 census.

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So, where are they?

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Gosh, how can you see? It's such spidery writing.

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OK, there.

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With one L. It should be two, because I've found out since...

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-Collin's got two Ls?

-All the Collins were spelt with two Ls.

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-OK.

-Mm. So he was a shoemaker.

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This makes sense to me, because I love shoes.

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-It's genetic!

-He could have made you them, couldn't he?

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Loads of shoes! And he was 50 in 1841... Oh, I'm rubbish at maths.

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So that's about 17... 90-ish.

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-That he was born?

-Yeah.

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And on the next one, 1871.

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If we look down...

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-Oh, there we are.

-Spelt right.

-Spelt properly, yes.

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Collin Thomas, Radegonde, wife.

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But, look, you look across, where born...

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-Bordeaux.

-Oh, my God.

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I knew we were French.

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Yeah, I know.

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And from a wine region!

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And we made shoes! This is two really good mixes.

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This is going very well.

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It would be brilliant if you could find something out.

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What, sort of... My family history is shoes and wine!

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-Yes!

-Brilliant!

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Collin Thomas is Amanda's five times great-grandfather.

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But how did her Cornish ancestor

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come to marry a French woman from Bordeaux?

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Hello.

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So, I'm going to press the South West, which is Cornwall,

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Collin - two Ls...

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..Thomas.

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-Search.

-Amanda has decided to start

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by looking at old local newspaper records.

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OK, so that means...

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OK. Two mentions here.

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The general quarter...

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Now there's Fs there. Are they Ss?

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Sessions?

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"The following prisoners were found guilty.

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"Stephen somebody and Collin Thomas

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"for felonies to be imprisoned for 12 months."

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What felonies?

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Collin Thomas!

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Oh, my God, so he's gone to prison for 12 months.

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My mum is not going to be happy with that.

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My nan is going to be even less happy with that.

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Exeter.

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So that court is in Exeter.

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So I need to go to Exeter.

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Wow!

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Amanda's come to Exeter Castle,

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the site of the city's courtrooms in January 1806,

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when Collin Thomas was put on trial.

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She's meeting historian, Professor Peter King.

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-Hi, Pete. I'm Amanda. Nice to meet you.

-Hi.

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So, Peter, yesterday I found out that my fifth great-grandfather,

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Collin Thomas, went to prison.

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Or something. It said 12 months for felonies.

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And I have to say, I was completely shocked, but

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my gut instinct, just straightaway, said no.

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No way. He's an innocent man.

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Innocent man. What has he done?

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OK, was he innocent? That's the question.

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-Yes!

-We're going to have to go back a bit.

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A felony means it's a crime that you get tried in a Jury Court for,

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so it's a major crime.

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To do that, I need to take you back to a couple of documents that were

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several years before 1806 when he ended up in court.

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So I'm going to start you off with a document here...

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-Oh, my goodness.

-..which is an apprentice indenture.

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Have a look and you'll just... The story will begin to reveal itself.

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-Between Deborah Thomas of the borough of Truro.

-There's his mum.

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So that's his mum, and Andrew Stevens of the borough of Truro,

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aforesaid coordinator...

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-Coordinator?

-Cordwainer.

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Cordwainer? What's a cordwainer?

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Cordwainer is a shoemaker.

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Yes! Collin was a shoemaker.

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It's an apprenticeship for...

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And if you read on a bit you'll find out how long he's committed to it.

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OK. To serve from the date hereof for the term of seven years. Wow!

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To be fully complete and ended.

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So he can't go away at all without his master's permission.

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Oh, this is interesting.

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Look. Alehouses he shall not frequent.

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-No.

-He's not allowed in the pub, basically.

-No pub.

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And now I've completely lost my place.

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-So his secrets keep...

-And all lawful commands...

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-In other words, he's under the hammer.

-OK.

-At all times.

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At all times, readily do and obey.

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-I mean, it sounds very strict.

-You're bound in.

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Your master feeds you and, effectively,

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you are in his household,

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and under his control for the rest of your seven years.

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The master would be able to correct him, ie, punish him,

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corporal punishment.

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Occasionally there are cases in the 18th century when apprentices

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are beaten to death. So let's just work out how old he is,

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first of all, when he gets here.

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Well, yesterday, on the 1841 census, he was 50.

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So that means he was born in 1790.

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-1790, yes.

-So this is 1800.

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-So he's ten.

-He's only ten...

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That's the same age as Lexie, my daughter.

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I still feel like it's not going to...

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-I think he's still a good person.

-Right, OK.

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I kind of have a suspicion now what I think...

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Let's have a look and see what might have happened to him.

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-What's that?

-This is interesting, here.

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This is the Royal Marine descriptive register

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of people that they recruited.

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Recruits like Collin were tempted into the Royal Marines

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with the promise of the King's shilling,

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a cash bounty which they received on joining up.

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-There he is.

-You've got him.

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-Double L, Collin.

-Yeah.

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Collin Thomas, 20th of September, 1805.

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OK, so he was 17.

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Oh... No.

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Hang on. In 1805...

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-He's not even 16.

-Oh, God. He was 15.

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-He's 15.

-He's 15, yeah. So he's saying he was 17.

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The really important bit is this here.

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-OK, D...

-That means discharged.

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Discharged... Claimed?

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-Claimed an apprentice.

-Yeah.

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Claimed an apprentice.

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So the master has come back.

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Andrew Stevens?

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Mm. Because the seven years are not yet up, and claimed him back.

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So he's there a couple of months.

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He gets a couple of months in the Marines.

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So now we're going to have a look at the calendar of prisoners.

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So this is the January session.

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January 1806.

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It was in the newspaper, yeah.

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Now, Collin Thomas.

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Oh, my gosh. It says aged 17.

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-Which he isn't.

-Which he's not.

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-Mm.

-Charged with unlawfully having knowingly...

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By false pretences.

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..obtained the sum of £11 and 11 shillings.

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-11 guineas, in other words.

-Yeah.

-So this is...

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-So he stole somebody's money?

-His signing up money.

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Oh, it's signing up money.

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-Yep.

-To the Marines?

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Yep. And it's a lot of money.

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It's the equivalent of 22 weeks of a labourer's wage.

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In modern terms, at the very least, £5,000, £6,000, £7,000.

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Oh, my gosh.

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More than he'll ever have thought he'd ever have in his hand before.

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-In his life, probably.

-At the age of 15.

-Yes.

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So that's why he ended up here.

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And he would have gone down to the cells first of all,

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awaiting his chance to come up in court and defend himself.

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So do the cells still exist?

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There are some of them there, yeah.

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Scary.

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So these are the cells, which are now a men's toilets.

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Which is grim, anyway.

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I mean, I can't help but think... I mean, he was only 15.

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This has now, obviously, got electricity,

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so it must have been virtually dark.

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You wouldn't be able to see anything down here, I wouldn't have thought.

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The cells where Collin was held as he awaited trial were still in use

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until 2003, when the Crown Court moved.

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So depressing.

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And spooky. It feels like I can feel something down here.

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It's freezing cold.

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Crime and punishment expert, Professor Barry Godfrey,

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-is waiting for Amanda.

-Nice to meet you.

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Welcome to the Exeter courtroom. An amazing place, isn't it?

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Gosh, yeah. It's massive.

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That's where the judges would have sat,

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resplendent in their scarlet robes.

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-Literally looking down on Collin.

-On 15-year-old Collin.

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He's 15, but he's an adult in the eyes of the law.

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-Really?

-So this is where Collin would have stood 200 years ago,

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just exactly where you're standing now.

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-Poor Collin.

-And this is the document that we have that describes

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what happened on that occasion.

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Oh, gosh. So there's his name.

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Collin Thomas. OK.

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So you can see here, this is what he's charged with.

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Well knowing himself, the said Collin Thomas to be an apprentice,

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and as such, not an eligible or proper person to enlist to serve

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our said...

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-Lord.

-..Lord the King as a private soldier, but being...

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Oh, my gosh!

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Look at that! Being an evil, disposed person.

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-Evil?

-Yeah.

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Well, he's taken the money, but he's not going to provide the service.

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Yes, but he tried. They came to get him back.

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He tried. He wanted to serve. But he's not free to serve.

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He belongs to his master.

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And why...? I mean, the thing that I keep wanting to ask is,

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it said that he'd served almost five and a half years

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of his apprenticeship. He only had to do seven.

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-Yep.

-So what person in their right mind...?

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Somebody who's very miserable, somebody who's being ill treated.

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-OK.

-Maybe somebody who wants to go off with a swashbuckling hero

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-and serve the King.

-So adventure?

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-Maybe adventure.

-And that's why he lied about his age.

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Well, we can see here, actually, in another document,

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-what does happen to him.

-OK. Ah, here we go.

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Collin Thomas, God, this writing!

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Convicted of a felony.

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-Let him be imprisoned in Bridewell, is that?

-That's it.

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For the space of 12 months and kept to hard labour.

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Bridewell is another name for a house of correction.

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He's there to have his behaviour corrected.

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-Right.

-And the hard labour really is hard labour.

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-And what would that be?

-So, in Exeter Bridewell,

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it would have been stripping bark.

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So that's used in the tanning process,

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-where the hide is dipped in urine...

-Oh!

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-So he would have been in pretty miserable...

-Smelly, awful...

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Wet, smelly, yeah, unhealthy conditions.

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-That is not good.

-No.

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So what happens to him afterwards? In 1807?

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We don't know what happened to him when he came out.

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Like lots of people, we just lose track of Collin.

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No record survives of Collin being released from prison,

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but Barry has found another document.

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So this is in French.

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-Uh-huh.

-Gosh!

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Why didn't I listen very much in my French...?

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Ah, here we go. That's basically English.

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Acte de mariage. Marriage. Act of marriage.

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Absolutely. Something a little bit more pleasant for Collin.

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So how much longer after he left prison is this?

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This is about ten years.

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-Ten years!

-Ten years we lose track of Collin, then he turns up here.

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And, look, hang on.

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Is that just because it's on the marriage certificate

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that it says "Thomas Colin" there, not "Collin Thomas"?

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The name's reversed.

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It may be because that's the way the French did it at the time.

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-Right.

-It may be that he's changed his name to escape his past.

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-I'm going with that one.

-It could be that.

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Because, look, I know that her name is Rad-e-GOOD.

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-Or however you say it.

-Rad-e-GOND.

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-Rad-e-GOND.

-Rad-e-GOND.

-Wow.

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Her name's the right way around.

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That's right. So it may be that he's done that just to throw people off

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the scent, so he can put his past behind him.

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And that must be her surname.

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Charbonnel, which was what eluded my mum.

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This is the point she got completely stuck.

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We also know where they married as well.

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Oh, my God, where?

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That's really tricky to read.

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A... Is that an A or a C?

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That's A. In Caudrot.

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-Caudrot?

-Yeah.

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-Your accent's a bit better than mine.

-Caudrot.

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Yeah. That's a nice village south-east of Bordeaux.

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-That is even better.

-Yep.

0:17:410:17:43

It's a new beginning for Collin.

0:17:450:17:46

-Yes.

-A marriage, a new land, and as a free man.

0:17:460:17:49

I absolutely love France.

0:17:590:18:01

I mean...

0:18:010:18:03

It's the most... This region is particularly gorgeous.

0:18:030:18:07

I'm so curious to find out how Collin ended up here.

0:18:070:18:12

How did a little shoemaker -

0:18:120:18:16

just out of prison, as well - how did he get to Bordeaux?

0:18:160:18:20

Amanda has come to the city of Bordeaux,

0:18:300:18:33

the centre of France's famous winemaking region.

0:18:330:18:36

Hello. I'm Amanda.

0:18:380:18:39

I'm Carol Duvall. Welcome to Bordeaux.

0:18:390:18:42

Thank you.

0:18:420:18:43

Historian Carol Duvall has been researching Collin's time in France.

0:18:430:18:48

So I suppose the question is, how did Collin get here?

0:18:510:18:55

He got here because he was in Wellington's Peninsular Army.

0:18:550:18:58

-Oh, my God.

-Yes.

0:18:590:19:01

Well, you know what Wellington said about his army?

0:19:010:19:04

The scum of the earth!

0:19:040:19:05

And therefore, you know, he would welcome ex-prisoners.

0:19:060:19:11

And a year before he joined up, the Peninsular War had started.

0:19:110:19:16

Napoleon, of course, had declared himself emperor by this time

0:19:160:19:18

and he's extending his empire.

0:19:180:19:20

I mean, his plan is to rule the whole of Europe.

0:19:200:19:23

So after he left prison he joined up again?

0:19:230:19:27

-This is a muster.

-So where is he?

0:19:270:19:29

Where is he? Ah, Collin, Thomas.

0:19:290:19:32

Collin's name is on a register of soldiers serving in the Army

0:19:330:19:37

on the 25th of September, 1807.

0:19:370:19:40

-He joined the 51st light infantry.

-OK.

0:19:410:19:45

That was a very good regiment.

0:19:450:19:49

And this gives you some idea of what he would have looked like

0:19:490:19:52

-in his uniform.

-Oh, my gosh!

0:19:520:19:54

Mind you, when we talk about what he did for seven years,

0:19:540:19:59

-he wouldn't have looked like that all the time.

-No.

0:19:590:20:01

They got new uniforms, in theory, once a year.

0:20:010:20:03

-By the end of the year...

-Oh, it would have been really grotty!

0:20:030:20:06

-There was lice...

-Ugh!

0:20:060:20:09

It was just pretty horrendous, in fact.

0:20:090:20:11

-Oh, my gosh.

-He was in the 51st,

0:20:110:20:14

which means that he took part in some really quite dramatic events.

0:20:140:20:18

For seven years from 1807, the Peninsular War pitched the forces of

0:20:190:20:25

Britain, Spain and Portugal against Napoleon's French army.

0:20:250:20:28

Collin went first to the Iberian Peninsula,

0:20:300:20:33

fighting his way up through Spain, as the Duke of Wellington

0:20:330:20:37

battled Napoleon's forces, driving them back into France.

0:20:370:20:40

By the time Wellington reached Bordeaux in 1814, the

0:20:420:20:46

local population, who were sympathetic to Britain, had turned

0:20:460:20:49

against Napoleon, and welcomed Wellington's army into the city.

0:20:490:20:55

So, on the 12th of March, the seventh division...

0:20:550:20:58

-OK.

-..which is the division that Collin is in,

0:20:580:21:01

march into Bordeaux.

0:21:010:21:03

They have cheers.

0:21:030:21:05

He will have seen people actually throwing flowers and blowing kisses.

0:21:050:21:10

-That would have been around here somewhere?

-All round here, yes.

0:21:100:21:13

That's right. So his particular Brigade of the seventh division

0:21:130:21:18

are sent upstream - so that's up that way somewhere -

0:21:180:21:21

to a string of villages, and there they are billeted.

0:21:210:21:24

And now we move on to May 1814.

0:21:240:21:28

At this point, this regiment, the 51st, were about to set sail

0:21:280:21:32

-back to England, because, of course, the war was over.

-Where is he?

0:21:320:21:36

Collin. Oh, there's lots of Thomases.

0:21:360:21:38

-Yes, yes.

-OK, Thomas... Collin Thomas.

0:21:380:21:43

25th of May...

0:21:430:21:44

..deserted. No!

0:21:470:21:48

-Yes.

-Deserted?

0:21:480:21:50

Yes. He must have deserted for a very good reason.

0:21:500:21:53

-He's coming up to seven years' service.

-Yes.

0:21:530:21:56

He would have got a pension.

0:21:560:21:57

The Army gave pensions for seven years' service.

0:21:570:21:59

He doesn't like to do things that are seven years.

0:21:590:22:01

His apprenticeship was seven years, and he finished that early as well.

0:22:010:22:04

-The seven year itch.

-It's interesting when you look at where

0:22:040:22:08

the headquarters of the 51st was at this point.

0:22:080:22:12

It was at a little village called Caudrot.

0:22:120:22:16

-OK. This makes sense now.

-And to throw up your pension...

0:22:160:22:20

-It must be for love.

-A very strong inducement, yes.

-Yes.

0:22:210:22:24

-It's not fear.

-No.

-We know he's been through all this.

0:22:240:22:28

-He's coped with it.

-Yes.

-As far as we know he was never in trouble,

0:22:280:22:32

no regimental court-martial, or anything like that.

0:22:320:22:34

-So he was a good soldier.

-So he deserted for love.

0:22:340:22:38

-Which I love.

-I'm such a romantic.

0:22:390:22:43

That's incredible.

0:22:430:22:44

I just think what a gorgeous man to follow his heart,

0:22:440:22:48

but to be that tough and that strong.

0:22:480:22:49

He's also lucky he has a trade, doesn't he?

0:22:490:22:51

Yes, a cordwainer.

0:22:510:22:53

A skill that will be acceptable wherever he settles.

0:22:530:22:57

Always get a trade, that's what my nan says.

0:22:570:22:59

-Absolutely.

-This is our family.

0:22:590:23:01

-I talked about the scum of the earth.

-Yes.

0:23:020:23:04

-Wellington said that.

-Yes.

0:23:040:23:06

But he also said, "See what fine fellows we've made of them."

0:23:060:23:12

The best army, most military historians agree,

0:23:120:23:15

the best army we ever put in the field was the Peninsular Army

0:23:150:23:19

at the end of the Peninsular War.

0:23:190:23:22

That is incredible. I don't know why I'm welling up.

0:23:220:23:24

-I just feel so proud.

-It's a lovely story.

0:23:240:23:27

He joined as a lad. I suspect he left as a man.

0:23:300:23:33

He left as a man. A lovely, gorgeous man.

0:23:330:23:36

So we're going upriver,

0:24:010:24:04

and I think we're doing the same journey that Collin will have done

0:24:040:24:08

from Bordeaux to Caudrot.

0:24:080:24:10

And so... Which is why it's fascinating for me, because

0:24:100:24:13

I'm looking all around, thinking the landscape's exactly the same.

0:24:130:24:16

So he will have seen these trees, that chateaux.

0:24:160:24:21

I'm literally seeing what he's seen.

0:24:210:24:23

It's incredible.

0:24:230:24:25

Caudrot sits on the banks of the Garrone River,

0:24:270:24:30

40 miles upstream from Bordeaux.

0:24:300:24:33

Collin came here in the spring of 1814.

0:24:330:24:36

Amanda has arranged to meet historian, Dr Gregory Chaput.

0:24:380:24:42

-Bonjour.

-Bonjour.

0:24:440:24:46

-Hello. I'm Gregory.

-Hello, Gregory, I'm Amanda.

0:24:460:24:48

So this is Caudrot.

0:24:480:24:50

Yeah, it is. You're actually on the Port of Caudrot.

0:24:500:24:53

-Right.

-Which was the Port of Caudrot in the early 19th century,

0:24:530:24:57

that would have been a very bustling place.

0:24:570:25:00

I've got postcards. You can see the river,

0:25:000:25:02

full of boats and barges on which the goods were loaded.

0:25:020:25:05

-The landscape's absolutely just unchanged.

-Yeah, you can see.

0:25:050:25:08

-Even the Cedar tree there, look, and the house, everything.

-Exactly.

0:25:080:25:12

It's the same thing. As you know, from Bordeaux,

0:25:120:25:14

-this place was quite anti-Napoleon.

-Mm-hm.

0:25:140:25:17

So the local people would welcome the British troops.

0:25:170:25:21

And there would be fraternisation,

0:25:210:25:23

-and I've got here a very interesting document.

-Mm-hm.

0:25:230:25:26

So this was written by Lieutenant William Hare,

0:25:260:25:29

who was in the same regiment as Collin.

0:25:290:25:31

It's like a grid.

0:25:310:25:32

Yeah, it is. Actually, it's written in two directions.

0:25:320:25:35

-Why?

-He wanted to use all paper, actually, so he didn't want to...

0:25:350:25:40

Waste a tiny inch of space.

0:25:400:25:42

-Exactly.

-Oh, my goodness.

0:25:420:25:44

"If I remain long in this country, and withstand seduction..."

0:25:440:25:52

Yeah. It's underlined.

0:25:520:25:54

"..it will be wonderful,

0:25:550:25:59

"for I never saw such women in my life."

0:25:590:26:05

-He's writing this to his wife?

-Exactly.

0:26:050:26:07

"At a party the other night, a handsome friend of mine

0:26:100:26:17

"was there when one of the daughters

0:26:170:26:21

"of the house gave him privately the key to her bedroom,

0:26:210:26:29

"into which he found the way."

0:26:290:26:32

Gosh, wouldn't that be amazing if that was Collin?

0:26:320:26:35

Well, it could have been, actually, yeah.

0:26:350:26:37

-So they were beautiful women.

-Exactly.

-And quite naughty!

0:26:370:26:41

You see, I know I've inherited that as well from Radegonde.

0:26:410:26:46

-That shows they got along very well.

-I love that, yes!

0:26:460:26:49

So that's what you mean by fraternisation.

0:26:490:26:51

-That's a polite word for... We won't say.

-Exactly.

0:26:510:26:54

-So Collin...

-Collin was having a fabulous time.

0:26:560:26:59

I have to say, I think he blinking deserved it.

0:26:590:27:01

Because he's been through so much.

0:27:010:27:03

-He's fought so many battles.

-That's true.

0:27:030:27:07

The key to somebody's room is the very least he could expect.

0:27:070:27:10

-And a barrel of wine.

-Right, that's true!

0:27:100:27:13

If you want we could go up the street here to have a look at

0:27:140:27:18

-Radegonde's family house?

-Really?

-Yes.

0:27:180:27:22

Oh, my God! Really?

0:27:220:27:25

Collin, he wasn't an ordinary man, I think we've established that.

0:27:340:27:37

But he was a private, he was a shoemaker, so that's quite humble.

0:27:370:27:40

So I would imagine she had quite humble beginnings.

0:27:400:27:43

Well...

0:27:430:27:45

you're standing in front of it.

0:27:450:27:48

-That's the actual house.

-This house, number nine?

-Yep.

0:27:480:27:51

It's a good size.

0:27:550:27:58

The whole row of houses here, it was full of shops.

0:27:580:28:02

I've got here a picture showing the house,

0:28:020:28:05

-so you can see the balcony was not here.

-Yes.

0:28:050:28:07

And that was the actual look of the house and Radegonde and her father

0:28:130:28:17

Gerard Charbonnel...

0:28:170:28:19

-What was his name? Gerard?

-Gerard, yes. Charbonnel.

0:28:190:28:22

-Charbonnel.

-And her mother was Catherine Labrousse.

-Mm-hm.

0:28:220:28:25

This was the high street of Caudrot,

0:28:250:28:28

linking the market street to the port, where we've been.

0:28:280:28:31

And so Collin would not have had very far to come.

0:28:310:28:34

-Just literally a little walk up the hill for secret trysts.

-Exactly.

0:28:340:28:37

Because I can't imagine she was naughty.

0:28:370:28:39

She wouldn't have wanted to upset her parents.

0:28:390:28:41

So could this have been the house when Collin deserted,

0:28:410:28:46

that she could have possibly hidden him in?

0:28:460:28:50

Well, that could have been. We have no evidence for that.

0:28:500:28:53

But we know he was there. We know he met Radegonde.

0:28:530:28:56

We know they fell in love.

0:28:560:28:58

And we know they got married about 18 months later in early 1816.

0:28:580:29:03

So they got married in the mairie, which was the town hall.

0:29:030:29:06

-So not in the church?

-Well, the church afterwards.

-Right.

0:29:060:29:09

They had a service there afterwards, like a blessing, if you would.

0:29:090:29:12

So the church is not far away from here.

0:29:120:29:14

-We can have a look, if you want?

-I want.

-OK.

0:29:140:29:16

In France, marriage is always a civil ceremony,

0:29:250:29:27

performed by the Mayor.

0:29:270:29:29

In 1816, Radegonde and Collin would have followed this

0:29:300:29:34

by going to the church for a religious service.

0:29:340:29:36

So this is much grander than I thought.

0:29:430:29:46

I've got extra information about the marriage.

0:29:510:29:54

Actually, they've drawn up this prenup agreement.

0:29:560:30:00

What? A prenup?

0:30:000:30:02

-Well, it's a kind of prenup agreement, yes.

-In 1816?

0:30:020:30:05

-Yeah, in 1816.

-Is that usual?

0:30:050:30:08

Well, it wasn't usual, but I'd say that in the family of Radegonde,

0:30:080:30:13

it was quite usual. It was kind of...

0:30:130:30:15

Catherine Labrousse, her mother, did the same thing.

0:30:150:30:18

So it's like a pattern in the family.

0:30:180:30:21

I'm loving this - feisty women!

0:30:210:30:23

-Exactly. Maybe they wanted to be independent, or...

-Yeah.

0:30:230:30:26

-So you've got a translation here.

-Right.

0:30:260:30:29

So it says, "Under and before God, Mr Thomas Collins..."

0:30:290:30:33

I said this.

0:30:330:30:35

I said he must have turned his name round.

0:30:350:30:38

-Now we know, probably, why.

-Now I know for absolutely sure, and why.

0:30:380:30:42

Because he deserted, so he might have wanted to change his name,

0:30:420:30:46

and to hide a bit.

0:30:460:30:47

"Here Radegonde Charbonnel, minor."

0:30:470:30:50

Minor? So was she underage?

0:30:510:30:54

She was under 21.

0:30:540:30:56

-That's what it means.

-I wonder if that's why they waited.

0:30:560:31:00

Because he landed at 1814, they got married in 1816.

0:31:000:31:04

You would think... They just waited.

0:31:040:31:06

Maybe.

0:31:060:31:08

"The future spouses declare that there was born out of wedlock

0:31:080:31:13

"a child of the feminine gender, to which they gave the name Catherine.

0:31:130:31:17

"Born last the 26th of October

0:31:170:31:20

"to legitimise, and legally recognise her."

0:31:200:31:23

It's true.

0:31:250:31:26

-Out of wedlock. So they didn't wait!

-No, they didn't wait.

0:31:260:31:29

-Oh, my God!

-So you've got the answer to your question.

0:31:290:31:32

-But I didn't know anything about her.

-Well, that's their first child.

0:31:330:31:37

-Remember the letter we read earlier about William Hare?

-Yes.

0:31:380:31:43

So maybe Radegonde gave the key to her bedroom to...

0:31:430:31:48

There was me thinking,

0:31:510:31:53

"They waited two years so they could get married and do it all right,

0:31:530:31:57

"the right way round." Although, you know, what is the right way round?

0:31:570:32:00

A baby is everything.

0:32:000:32:02

How amazing. Would the French have been a bit more relaxed about that?

0:32:020:32:06

I don't know. At the time, probably not.

0:32:060:32:09

So after that, they had Louis, as you know.

0:32:090:32:12

-In 1818.

-Mm-hm.

-And sometime before 1821 they moved back to England.

0:32:120:32:18

We know that because they had another child, another girl,

0:32:180:32:23

actually, born in Truro, in Cornwall, in 1821, Lisbeth.

0:32:230:32:28

And they had nine children.

0:32:280:32:30

-What?!

-In total.

0:32:300:32:31

-Nine?

-Nine, including Catherine, Louis, Lisbeth, and the others.

0:32:310:32:38

So they went back to England,

0:32:380:32:39

but there is a French line of your family staying here, obviously.

0:32:390:32:43

-Yes.

-Catherine Labrousse, for example.

0:32:430:32:45

So I've got another document here.

0:32:450:32:48

-So this is...

-Oh, I want to cry, I'm so happy.

0:32:500:32:53

-So this is a document from 1832.

-OK.

0:32:540:32:57

It's about Catherine Labrousse, who is Radegonde's mother.

0:32:580:33:02

So this document is actually listing a property.

0:33:020:33:05

It says that she has a vineyard.

0:33:050:33:08

What?!

0:33:080:33:09

It's true.

0:33:100:33:12

Oh, yes!

0:33:120:33:13

Une piece de terre en vigne. That's what it means.

0:33:130:33:16

Piece de terre en vigne.

0:33:160:33:17

-Where's that?

-And we actually have the name of it.

0:33:170:33:20

-It's named Castouret.

-Castouret.

0:33:200:33:25

In the commune of Caudrot.

0:33:250:33:28

Does it...? Is it...? Tell me it still exists!

0:33:280:33:31

-It actually still exists.

-Do they produce wine from it?

0:33:310:33:34

Well, they still produce wine in this area.

0:33:340:33:37

This is a modern map of Caudrot.

0:33:370:33:40

-Oh, my God.

-This is the centre of Caudrot.

0:33:400:33:44

And if you look about here...

0:33:440:33:48

-You can read...

-Oh, yes, Castouret.

0:33:480:33:50

Exactly. So that's the place.

0:33:500:33:52

And there's still a vineyard there.

0:33:520:33:54

So would she have gone there? Would she have worked there?

0:33:540:33:56

Well, her mother, Catherine Labrousse's mother was called Radegonde.

0:33:560:34:01

-Right.

-Radegonde Ballan.

0:34:010:34:03

Amanda has now discovered three generations of her maternal French

0:34:060:34:10

ancestors, back to her seven times great-grandmother, Radegonde Ballan.

0:34:100:34:15

The Ballans were a family of winemakers.

0:34:160:34:19

They had several vineyards in the area.

0:34:190:34:22

-Several?

-And one of them was Castouret.

0:34:230:34:25

Oh, I love you, Gregory!

0:34:250:34:28

-Oh, my God.

-So you could go there if you want.

0:34:280:34:30

-I'm so going there.

-Now we know where it is.

0:34:300:34:32

I'm going there. They were owners!

0:34:320:34:35

That's like a dream.

0:34:360:34:37

-That's...

-Oh, that's good.

0:34:370:34:38

So, Gregory said come and find Castouret vineyard,

0:34:470:34:51

so I'm literally at the fork here.

0:34:510:34:53

There's a road there, road there. It's got to be over here somewhere.

0:34:530:34:58

It's just incredible.

0:35:080:35:09

This legacy has been inherited or passed down through all the women

0:35:090:35:12

in the family. That's, in itself, unique.

0:35:120:35:16

Three generations of women.

0:35:160:35:17

I couldn't have asked for anything better.

0:35:190:35:22

My family used to own a vineyard. That's like heaven.

0:35:220:35:24

So this is it. Chateaux Castouret.

0:35:260:35:28

-WINE GLUGS

-I love that noise.

0:35:300:35:32

For Collin to end up here,

0:35:370:35:41

after so much...

0:35:410:35:44

I don't know, I think the thing I love about Collin the most is he was

0:35:440:35:46

a rule breaker. He was very instinctive.

0:35:460:35:49

He led with his heart.

0:35:490:35:51

He, kind of, didn't care if he got into trouble.

0:35:520:35:55

He did what he felt was right, against all the odds.

0:35:550:36:00

And it all turned out for him in the end.

0:36:000:36:02

Cheers.

0:36:040:36:06

It's actually delicious, you know.

0:36:090:36:12

Apparently it was a very good year, 2010.

0:36:120:36:14

Amanda's now returning to England to investigate

0:36:180:36:21

her paternal grandfather, Frank Holden.

0:36:210:36:24

On that side of the family, Amanda has less to go on.

0:36:260:36:29

After her parents divorced, Amanda lost touch with her father, Frank,

0:36:340:36:39

and never met her grandfather, Frank Holden senior,

0:36:390:36:42

who died in 1983, aged 71.

0:36:420:36:46

-Hello.

-How lovely to see you.

-How lovely to see you.

0:36:460:36:50

Amanda's arranged to meet her Uncle George, her father's brother.

0:36:500:36:54

George has brought Frank senior's photo albums with him.

0:36:550:36:58

-Oh, look at him there.

-He used to do the singing and dancing,

0:36:590:37:03

-and entertaining.

-Because I've always wondered where this...

0:37:030:37:06

-Theatrical.

-..theatre side of me has come from.

-Yeah.

0:37:060:37:09

And so it's obviously come from the Holden side.

0:37:090:37:11

The Holden family, both his brothers were entertainers.

0:37:110:37:15

All I know, very sadly, about Frank senior is that, you know,

0:37:150:37:22

I got a phone call from my mum to say that he'd taken his own life,

0:37:220:37:27

and that's just, you know... It's heartbreaking.

0:37:270:37:30

A lot of people were devastated.

0:37:300:37:32

I never met anybody who had a bad word to say against him.

0:37:320:37:35

Gosh, this is very precious.

0:37:370:37:38

They are getting a bit old and fragile, these.

0:37:380:37:40

No, it's just nice to have, isn't it?

0:37:400:37:42

Oh, wow. So this is, what year is this, do you know?

0:37:420:37:46

That will be about 1942.

0:37:460:37:48

-During the war.

-What did he do in the Army?

0:37:480:37:51

He was in the Royal Army Medical Corps.

0:37:510:37:52

He was a psychiatric nurse, he obviously...

0:37:520:37:55

With his nursing training

0:37:550:37:56

from before the war he was very well qualified.

0:37:560:37:59

-When it started, obviously, he was a nothing, a Private.

-Mm-hm.

0:37:590:38:03

He ended up as a regimental Sergeant Major,

0:38:030:38:04

which is the highest non-commissioned rank you can get,

0:38:040:38:07

so he really is pulling up through the ranks.

0:38:070:38:10

Gosh. He's very handsome.

0:38:120:38:15

He's like a movie star there.

0:38:160:38:17

Now, you see this person here, covered in oil...

0:38:190:38:24

-Is that oil, not blood?

-Oil and water.

0:38:240:38:27

-That's your grandad.

-What is he doing?

0:38:290:38:32

He was shipwrecked.

0:38:320:38:34

Really? Shipwrecked?

0:38:340:38:36

In the 1940s, was this?

0:38:360:38:38

Yes, 1940 exactly. June 1940.

0:38:380:38:41

What was the name of the ship he was on?

0:38:410:38:43

He was on the Lancastria.

0:38:430:38:45

-I've never heard of that.

-No, I don't suppose you have.

0:38:450:38:47

It was one of these things that was kept very quiet during the war.

0:38:470:38:50

-OK.

-He used to get quite emotional about it,

0:38:500:38:52

and that was unusual for my dad,

0:38:520:38:53

because he was a very calm and collected guy.

0:38:530:38:56

-But look at him. He's...

-He's dishing out a pot of tea.

0:38:560:38:58

Dishing out tea. He literally, just nearly drowned at that point,

0:38:580:39:01

and now he's giving tea to everybody.

0:39:010:39:02

He used to say to my brother and I, you know,

0:39:020:39:06

"You've never been in the Navy until you've been shipwrecked."

0:39:060:39:08

So I learned an awful lot about Frank senior then,

0:39:160:39:18

but I think the most poignant and interesting was the fact that

0:39:180:39:22

he was shipwrecked. So I think I need to find out, well,

0:39:220:39:25

go and find his army records, I suppose.

0:39:250:39:27

Look up the Lancastria.

0:39:270:39:30

Amanda has an appointment at the Aldershot headquarters

0:39:410:39:45

of the Royal Army Medical Corps, with their historian,

0:39:450:39:48

Captain Peter Starling.

0:39:480:39:49

So, Peter, I'm learning about my paternal grandfather, Frank Holden...

0:39:520:39:56

Senior. I know he was a nurse,

0:39:560:40:01

and I know he joined the Army.

0:40:010:40:04

And that's about it, really.

0:40:040:40:05

-Did you ever meet him, or...?

-I didn't know him, no.

0:40:050:40:08

I didn't know anything about him at all.

0:40:080:40:10

He was obviously a very exceptional psychiatric nurse.

0:40:100:40:13

"Dear Sir, I have pleasure in informing you that you

0:40:150:40:17

"qualified for the Campbell Clark medal and prize.

0:40:170:40:22

"Your medal is being engraved and will be forwarded

0:40:220:40:24

"with a cheque for three guineas

0:40:240:40:27

"in the near future."

0:40:270:40:29

This medal, which is awarded for the person gaining top marks

0:40:290:40:33

-in his examinations.

-Oh, wow. In the country?

0:40:330:40:36

Yes. He's going to be quite sought after.

0:40:360:40:38

See, this is what interests me, because I didn't know...

0:40:380:40:41

I thought that post-traumatic stress syndrome and, you know,

0:40:410:40:44

mental health care with the Army and all our armed forces

0:40:440:40:47

was a relatively new idea,

0:40:470:40:49

and that they just kind of told you to get on with it back then.

0:40:490:40:52

No, not by the time that we're looking at here,

0:40:520:40:55

approaching the Second World War.

0:40:550:40:58

It was after the First World War, really,

0:40:580:40:59

with all the soldiers suffering from shellshock that they realised that

0:40:590:41:04

this isn't cowardice. It's not a lack of moral fibre.

0:41:040:41:07

It's a hidden wound. And we needed male nurses, doctors,

0:41:070:41:12

who were trained to look after our psychiatric cases.

0:41:120:41:15

So he would have been snapped up?

0:41:150:41:16

He would have been snapped up.

0:41:160:41:18

-Now the war clouds are looming, aren't they?

-Yeah.

0:41:180:41:20

-Through the summer of 1939.

-Yes.

0:41:200:41:22

And eventually, Britain declares war on Germany.

0:41:220:41:25

-In September.

-And I don't know if you can read this, it says...

0:41:250:41:30

Mobilised. 1st of September, 1939.

0:41:300:41:34

And then underneath it?

0:41:350:41:37

-BEF?

-British Expeditionary Force.

0:41:370:41:39

Frank Holden was one of the first members of the

0:41:410:41:43

British Expeditionary Force sent to France in September 1939

0:41:430:41:47

to protect Western Europe from German invasion.

0:41:470:41:51

He joined a team of about 200 medics, known as a field ambulance.

0:41:550:42:00

On the 10th of May 1940, Germany invaded, unleashing blitzkrieg,

0:42:030:42:09

lightning war, quickly overwhelming Allied forces.

0:42:090:42:14

Nursing orderlies like Frank were the front line medics of their day,

0:42:140:42:18

and would have been in the thick of the action.

0:42:180:42:21

26th of May, 1940, is the crucial date.

0:42:210:42:24

The British Army is being pushed back by the Germans

0:42:240:42:28

towards the French coast at Dunkirk, and, as you know,

0:42:280:42:31

this big flotilla of ships goes over there and rescues the British Army.

0:42:310:42:34

-Yes. yes.

-But look at this date here.

0:42:340:42:35

That's the 26th of May 1940.

0:42:350:42:37

But if you look at Frank's date...

0:42:370:42:40

He doesn't leave France until the 20th of June.

0:42:400:42:43

-Oh, until June.

-Yes.

-So where was he?

0:42:430:42:46

Trapped south of Dunkirk, in St Nazaire.

0:42:460:42:51

There's thousands more British soldiers that are there

0:42:510:42:55

-in this little enclave.

-So he was left behind?

0:42:550:42:58

-He was left behind.

-So, I know that Frank was shipwrecked.

0:42:580:43:03

Could it have been a ship that was trying to get him home

0:43:030:43:06

that was actually shipwrecked? The Lancastria.

0:43:060:43:08

There's nothing in his record here that says he was on the Lancastria,

0:43:080:43:13

or that he was shipwrecked.

0:43:130:43:14

-There's no clue. If you didn't know, you just wouldn't know.

-No.

0:43:140:43:17

It looks like I'm going to have to go back to France!

0:43:170:43:19

-I think so.

-Brittany.

0:43:190:43:20

I think if you go to Brittany you might find, hopefully,

0:43:200:43:23

something else about him.

0:43:230:43:25

So I'm heading towards St Nazaire to find out more about my grandfather,

0:43:400:43:44

and his efforts to escape the Germans.

0:43:440:43:48

I'm basically following the same route,

0:43:490:43:52

on almost the same mode of travel.

0:43:520:43:54

Amanda has discovered that her grandfather was stranded in France

0:44:020:44:05

after the evacuation of Dunkirk,

0:44:050:44:08

and ended up in St Nazaire,

0:44:080:44:11

450 miles further south along the Brittany coast.

0:44:110:44:14

Amanda is in the port of St Nazaire to find out more about the ship,

0:44:320:44:36

the Lancastria,

0:44:360:44:37

which she knows her grandfather was on when he was shipwrecked.

0:44:370:44:41

She's meeting historian, Jonathan Fenby.

0:44:430:44:45

So these are the docks, the quayside...

0:44:470:44:49

-OK.

-..of St Nazaire.

0:44:490:44:51

This is what it would have looked like, so it was a very, very...

0:44:520:44:56

-Had been a very lively place.

-Mm.

0:44:560:44:58

Quite certainly. And these are men marching down the quayside,

0:44:580:45:03

trying to get onto a lot of small boats which were moored here.

0:45:030:45:08

Because the big boats, which had come in the rescue flotilla,

0:45:080:45:11

including the Lancastria, were anchored four miles or so out there.

0:45:110:45:15

It's very wide, the Loire estuary at this point, but it's very shallow,

0:45:150:45:19

-so they couldn't get close in.

-Right.

0:45:190:45:22

They had to all be ferried out in much smaller boats.

0:45:220:45:24

30,000 service personnel descended on St Nazaire from all over France.

0:45:260:45:32

Everyone was desperate to find a way out,

0:45:340:45:37

before German forces attacked.

0:45:370:45:38

And when the men were here, they were looking...

0:45:410:45:43

They all wanted to go out to the Lancastria.

0:45:430:45:45

-They all thought it was the safest place to be.

-Mm.

0:45:450:45:48

One said, "It's as solid as the Strand Palace Hotel."

0:45:480:45:51

Before the war,

0:45:560:45:57

the Lancastria had been a luxury transatlantic cruise liner.

0:45:570:46:02

In 1940, she was requisitioned as a troopship.

0:46:020:46:06

Jonathan is taking Amanda to where her grandfather and thousands

0:46:080:46:12

of others were queueing up to embark on the 17th of June, 1940.

0:46:120:46:17

You can see here British troops, when crossing the bridge,

0:46:180:46:22

and the ships were waiting for them down here.

0:46:220:46:23

The smaller ships waiting here to take them out to the Lancastria.

0:46:230:46:28

-There's absolutely hundreds of them.

-Hundreds and hundreds.

0:46:280:46:30

Coming round and getting onto the Highlander, which was a destroyer,

0:46:300:46:34

which was one of the ships which is here.

0:46:340:46:37

And we have these photographs because a member of the crew of the

0:46:370:46:41

Highlander was a very keen amateur photographer called Clements.

0:46:410:46:44

He exchanged a pair of socks for a roll of film in St Nazaire,

0:46:440:46:49

and he took these photographs,

0:46:490:46:51

but we don't know how many got onto the Lancastria.

0:46:510:46:54

What was the normal capacity?

0:46:540:46:55

Well, the normal capacity would have been 2,500.

0:46:550:46:58

The captain reckoned they could take 4,000.

0:46:580:47:01

He was told, take as many as arrive, basically.

0:47:010:47:04

The stewards counted them in with a little clicker, but they

0:47:040:47:08

were overheard to say, "We stopped counting when it reached 6,000."

0:47:080:47:12

And some people think it may have been 8,000-9,000.

0:47:120:47:14

-Gosh! So it was absolutely rammed.

-Absolutely rammed.

0:47:140:47:18

Frank Holden was one of the thousands who were taken out

0:47:180:47:21

to the Lancastria and crammed into the ship's holds and on deck.

0:47:210:47:25

Finally, the captain decided the ship could take no more.

0:47:260:47:29

The last load from the destroyer, Highlander, was turned away.

0:47:310:47:36

The ship could have left earlier, but, first of all,

0:47:360:47:38

the French had not wanted it to leave,

0:47:380:47:40

and then the captain made excuses not to go, not to go.

0:47:400:47:43

He wanted an escort. He was afraid of submarines.

0:47:430:47:46

-Mm.

-And so on. It was really a sitting duck.

0:47:460:47:48

At 3:43pm, the ship's air raid siren began to wail.

0:47:520:47:58

And then a German plane dived down onto the Lancastria,

0:47:580:48:03

unleashed four bombs, three of which went straight into the holds.

0:48:030:48:07

One of which, according to some accounts, went down the funnel.

0:48:070:48:10

It blew up, and the whole ship turned into an inferno.

0:48:100:48:14

Oh, my God!

0:48:140:48:15

Many of those who lost their lives

0:48:220:48:24

were trapped in the holds of the ship.

0:48:240:48:27

-A lot of people were killed instantly.

-Yes.

-For instance,

0:48:290:48:31

the RAF crew who were in, ground crew, who were in the holds,

0:48:310:48:34

they were all blown up. There were fires all over the place.

0:48:340:48:38

One man said, "If there was a hell, this was it."

0:48:380:48:41

-This was it.

-This was it.

0:48:410:48:42

Those who made it onto the upturned hull,

0:48:460:48:49

or struggled in the water, were easy targets for the German planes,

0:48:490:48:53

which machine gunned survivors.

0:48:530:48:55

Just 24 minutes after the first bomb hit, the Lancastria sank.

0:48:580:49:03

The sinking of the Lancastria remains the single worst disaster

0:49:060:49:10

in Britain's maritime history.

0:49:100:49:12

More people lost their lives than on the Titanic and Lusitania

0:49:130:49:17

put together.

0:49:170:49:18

I just can't imagine what it was like for Frank,

0:49:180:49:22

and all those thousands of people.

0:49:220:49:24

I mean, it must have been absolutely terrifying.

0:49:240:49:27

76 years later,

0:49:300:49:31

there is only a small number of survivors still left alive.

0:49:310:49:36

Along with the military,

0:49:380:49:39

British families and civilians were also being evacuated.

0:49:390:49:45

The youngest person aboard the Lancastria was Jacqueline Tanner,

0:49:450:49:49

who was travelling with her mother and father.

0:49:490:49:51

She was two years old in June 1940.

0:49:510:49:53

-Hello, I'm Amanda.

-Hello, Amanda. I'm Jacqueline.

0:49:560:49:58

-Lovely to meet you.

-And you.

0:49:580:50:00

I'm going to take you out to the wreck site...

0:50:000:50:03

-How exciting.

-..where the Lancastria went down.

0:50:030:50:06

The ship's sonar reveals the first sign of the Lancastria,

0:50:200:50:23

sitting upright on the seabed below them.

0:50:230:50:26

As you can see on the screen, this is the bow of the wreck,

0:50:270:50:31

and this is the rear.

0:50:310:50:33

It's 20 metres deep.

0:50:330:50:35

So is it lying on its bottom?

0:50:360:50:39

Yes, it's about ten metres high.

0:50:390:50:42

So is this the deck we're looking at?

0:50:420:50:44

Yes, this is... This part is the first deck.

0:50:440:50:48

A buoy marks the spot where the Lancastria sank.

0:50:530:50:56

Jacqueline's mother and father managed to get into a lifeboat,

0:50:590:51:02

but it capsized,

0:51:020:51:04

throwing them and their two-year-old daughter into the water.

0:51:040:51:07

Mother looked across at my father and said, "What do we do"?

0:51:080:51:12

And he went, "Swim".

0:51:120:51:15

And luckily, they were both very good swimmers.

0:51:150:51:18

-Yes.

-And they started swimming.

0:51:180:51:21

-And what about you?

-Well, I was being held, apparently,

0:51:210:51:26

in my father's teeth.

0:51:260:51:28

One of the other survivors wrote an account

0:51:280:51:30

of how he rescued Jacqueline.

0:51:300:51:32

"A lifeboat was quite near, and I swam towards it."

0:51:330:51:36

"Suddenly, a woman's agonised cry rang out.

0:51:360:51:39

"Baby here! Baby here."

0:51:390:51:41

-Is this your mother?

-Yes.

0:51:410:51:43

"As an echo, I heard the small voice of a child repeating, 'Baby, baby'."

0:51:440:51:50

-That's me.

-Oh, Jacqueline, that's you.

0:51:500:51:53

"I looked over to see a man and a woman, swimming along,

0:51:530:51:55

"holding up, out of the sea, a tiny mite, a little girl.

0:51:550:51:59

"And I realised it was the same woman who had nearly landed

0:51:590:52:02

"on top of me when the lifeboat tipped up.

0:52:020:52:05

"The sight of this man plodding along in grim silence,

0:52:050:52:08

"and the mother who cried out only for the safety of her child

0:52:080:52:11

"warmed my heart, and I struggled on beside them.

0:52:110:52:14

"Suddenly, I found a piece of wood,

0:52:150:52:17

"not a very large piece,

0:52:170:52:18

"but it would do fine to put the baby on, I thought.

0:52:180:52:21

"And, swimming over, we pushed it under the baby.

0:52:210:52:23

"She looked quite comfortable,

0:52:250:52:26

"and I now felt that I must get away from those cries of distress,

0:52:260:52:30

"and I swam away."

0:52:300:52:32

Do you know who that was?

0:52:320:52:34

-No.

-You never knew who that was?

0:52:340:52:36

No, I didn't, no.

0:52:360:52:37

He saved your life.

0:52:370:52:39

He did. Well, he helped save my life.

0:52:390:52:41

And Mother and Father then were three hours in the water,

0:52:410:52:47

and then they were eventually picked up, and we were being transferred

0:52:470:52:53

-to the Highlander, which had...

-Aha!

0:52:530:52:56

-The Highlander, I have a picture here...

-You do?

0:52:560:53:00

..because my grandfather, Frank, there he is.

0:53:000:53:04

-So this is on the Highlander?

-This is on the Highlander,

0:53:060:53:08

-and he's covered in oil, like you must have been.

-Mm.

0:53:080:53:12

And he's wrapped in a blanket, other people are wrapped in a blanket,

0:53:120:53:16

-And he's... This is the thing that...

-Pouring tea!

0:53:160:53:18

He's pouring tea! A good old British cup of tea.

0:53:180:53:21

He must have been on the shame ship as you.

0:53:210:53:23

He must have been. And he was a lucky one as well.

0:53:230:53:25

He survived.

0:53:250:53:27

4,000 men, women and children are known to have lost their lives,

0:53:530:53:58

but the figure is thought to be much higher, as there was no

0:53:580:54:01

accurate count of the thousands crowded on board the Lancastria.

0:54:010:54:06

I think you and my grandfather were extremely lucky to get out of there.

0:54:140:54:18

-Oh, yes.

-But the thing I don't really understand, Jacqueline,

0:54:180:54:22

is that this is a bigger disaster than the Titanic,

0:54:220:54:26

and yet I've never heard of it.

0:54:260:54:28

At the time, when this happened, of course,

0:54:280:54:30

it was too big a disaster to publish. We have here a book.

0:54:300:54:37

There's a piece on there you might like to read.

0:54:370:54:40

OK. So this is Winston Churchill's...

0:54:400:54:43

-Winston Churchill's...

-..diary.

0:54:430:54:45

"One frightful incident occurred on the 17th at St Nazaire.

0:54:450:54:49

"The 20,000 tonne liner, the Lancastria,

0:54:490:54:53

"with 5,000 men on board, was bombed and set on fire

0:54:530:54:57

"just as she was about to leave. When this news came to me in the

0:54:570:55:00

"quiet cabinet room during the afternoon, I forbade its publication..."

0:55:000:55:05

Ah, here we go. "..saying, 'the newspapers have got quite enough

0:55:050:55:08

" 'disaster for today, at least.' I had intended to release the news

0:55:080:55:13

"a few days later, but events crowded upon us so black

0:55:130:55:17

"and so quickly that I forgot to lift the ban."

0:55:170:55:21

I can see that it was done for morale, for the people in Britain,

0:55:210:55:25

but now it needs recognition.

0:55:250:55:28

Yes, it did need recognition.

0:55:280:55:30

-There he is.

-And there he is.

0:55:300:55:32

Isn't it amazing that you both survived a massive disaster, and...

0:55:320:55:37

And he was not very old?

0:55:370:55:38

He wasn't very old, you were tiny.

0:55:380:55:40

I just like to think that he may have seen you,

0:55:400:55:42

-because it must have been...

-Well, he probably did.

0:55:420:55:44

A little tot like you.

0:55:440:55:46

It's a small world, in some ways.

0:55:460:55:49

Isn't it? It's taken a long time for us to find out

0:55:490:55:53

that we've got something in common.

0:55:530:55:55

HMT Lancastria.

0:56:050:56:08

Opposite this place lies the wreck of the troopship Lancastria.

0:56:080:56:12

Learning about Frank's story has just been incredible for me.

0:56:140:56:20

He was a survivor. He was one of the lucky ones

0:56:210:56:24

from this disaster, and I hope that this story

0:56:240:56:30

will keep the memory alive of those 4,000 who didn't make it back home.

0:56:300:56:36

It's odd that I never got to meet him,

0:56:370:56:39

because that goes against what I feel about him now,

0:56:390:56:42

what I've learned about him.

0:56:420:56:43

I think the sad irony is that,

0:56:460:56:49

you know, my grandfather took his own life in his 70s.

0:56:490:56:53

He looked after so many mentally ill people,

0:56:530:56:55

endured so much during the war, but wasn't able to save himself.

0:56:550:57:01

Maybe all the trauma he witnessed,

0:57:030:57:06

and everybody else's problems were too much for him to bear.

0:57:060:57:11

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