Browse content similar to 21/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Morning, folks, and welcome to the Daily Politics. Today's top story: | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
Fighting continues in Gaza. Israeli war-planes and naval forces | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
hit dozens more targets overnight while Hamas continued to launch | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
missiles against Israel. There is still talk of an Egyptian-brokered | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
ceasefire. And the Americans are encouraging it. But it hasn't | :00:54. | :01:01. | |
happened yet. And it will not be helped by the fact that within the | :01:01. | :01:07. | |
last hour a bus has been blown up in Tel Aviv. The Church of England | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
Synod is now in crisis session after failing to pass a motion to | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
allow women to become Bishops. Should Parliament now step in to | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
force compliance with equality legislation? MPs are back at | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
Westminster after their short break, and that means Prime Minister's | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
Questions! Hoorah! It's the highlight of our political week! | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
We'll find out what Ed's got in store for Dave in half an hour's | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
time. And after that, should fat people pay more than fit people for | :01:32. | :01:40. | |
their healthcare? Former Apprentice Katie Hopkins says they should. | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
Frankly, if you don't care about your health or body, as a taxpayer | :01:45. | :01:54. | |
funding the NHS, Nauta wife. -- nor do I. All that in the next hour or | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
so, and much, much more. And joining us throughout is Defence | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
Secretary Philip Hammond and Shadow Attorney General Emily Thornberry. | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
Welcome to you both. But first, a senior Bishop was on the radio this | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
morning insisting that the Church had not 'committed suicide' over | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
its failure to allow women to become Bishops. An interesting way | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
of putting it, suggesting perhaps that he doesn't exactly think it's | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
a great leap forward either. The outgoing Archbishop of Canterbury, | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
Rowan Williams devoted much of the last decade to trying to persuade | :02:23. | :02:33. | |
the Church to accept the move. This morning he expressed his sadness. | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
whatever the motivations for voting yesterday, whatever the theological | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
principle on which people acted and spoke, the fact remains that a | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
great deal of this discussion is not intelligible to allow wider | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
society. Worse than that, it seems that we are wilfully blind to some | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
of the trains and priorities of that wider society -- the trends. | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
We have some explaining to do. We have, as a result of yesterday, | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
undoubtedly lost a measure of credibility. Do you agree with | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
that? The Church of England has lost a measure of credibility? | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
think the Church faces some difficult challenges ahead. It is | :03:14. | :03:23. | |
not just on the ordination of women, but a series of big divisive issues | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
which the Church has to resolve and heal. It has to find a way forward. | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
Otherwise it will find itself marginalised. It will find members | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
of the church with strong views on one side or other of the arguments. | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
Increasingly, they will be attracted to splinter groups, so it | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
is essential that the Church of England finds a way of recovering | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
the middle ground and becoming a mainstream of Anglican thought in | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
this country. So you were disappointed by the result? It is | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
disappointed the Church was in crisis. You must have a view. | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
Downing Street are disappointed. think this is a matter for the | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
Church. It's not for me to say they should have decided one way or | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
another. But this is clearly not going to go away. This debate will | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
continue, and it will continue to damage the church, and that is bad | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
for society, whether one is a member of the Church of England or | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
not. Philip Hammond says it is it not for him to say, but this is a | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
critical issue. The church itself says, or Rowan Williams does, that | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
it was wilfully blind to the trend of modern society. Do you agree? | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
I think it is terribly sad. The majority of people in the Church of | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
England one there to be women bishops. I got a message from my | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
local church saying they had messed up and that they would try and fix | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
it. I think people feel very sad about this. A tiny minority have | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
seized the agenda and of forcing their views on the majority of the | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
Church of England, and listening to Rowan Williams speaking, you can | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
sense his sadness, and I feel it as well. You say, Philip Hammond, it's | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
not for you to decide in that sense, but what do you think it has JUN to | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
the moral authority of the Church? Rowan Williams does not hold back | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
when it comes to commenting on political issues. Do you think they | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
have lost some moral authority because of this? I think they have. | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
The main thing that undermines the moral authority of an organisation | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
like the Church is when it doesn't have a clear, defined view that all | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
its members can get behind. When there is an ongoing debate in any | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
organisation, the same is true of a political party. If there is an | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
ongoing debate about what an organisation stands for it is | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
difficult to project a moral authority to those outside. I think | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
it is clear what the Church of England stands for. The question is | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
who should be the senior people preaching it in the church. Most | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
people supported it. And also the main tenants of the Church, they | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
all agree with those, it is a question of should women be bishops | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
or not, and that is a question for the Church to resolve, but the | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
irony is the majority of the Church wanted it but a minority have | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
managed to take the agenda. thought the interesting thing was | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
perhaps a lesson for politicians. It was the House of Laity that was | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
more conservative with a small c than the bishops all clergy. We | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
sometimes sense that in Parliament as well. Politicians are willing to | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
move in a certain direction but have a sense that the Community, | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
the electorate they represent, is less keen to move on things. What | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
can Parliament do? And should it do anything? There was a suggestion | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
from Chris Bryant to stop appointing bishops, or Frank Field | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
threatened to introduce a motion from the church to be removed from | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
equality legislation. Should Parliament be doing this? I don't | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
think the Church as a real problem, but it is a problem for them to | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
resolve. Then we have all been in organisations that have been faced | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
with an impassive about how they go forward over the difficult issue. | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
They will resolve it in time. It may take time, but they will | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
resolve it. We have to support them to do that but we should not try | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
and intervened and impose a solution. The Church of England is | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
a strange vehicle. It is the established church, so if the | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
Church of England leadership wants assistance from Parliament, we | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
should listen, but we have to wait and see how they will resolve this. | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
Clearly this will not do. Thank you both. The bloodshed continues in | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
both Israel and Gaza. This morning there was an explosion on a bus in | :07:42. | :07:52. | |
Tel Aviv. At least 10 people have been hurt but perhaps not seriously. | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
Arab Media Reporting as much as the Western media that it was a | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
terrorist attack. No one yet claiming that they did it. | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
Overnight, Israeli jets attacked dozens of targets inside Gaza | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
itself. Rockets are still being launched from there into Israel. | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
The UN Secretary General, Ban Ki- Moon and US Secretary of State, | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Hillary Clinton, are out there trying to help the Egyptians broker | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
a ceasefire. But there is no sign of one yet. Jo has the background. | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
The killing in Gaza and in Israel has dominated the headlines and the | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
television screens over the last week. The latest flare-up of | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
violence started in September. Palestinian militant groups in Gaza | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
increased cross-border rocket fire and Israel responded with air | :08:32. | :08:39. | |
strikes. Israel says it holds the Hamas movement, which runs Gaza, | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
responsible for all attacks emanating from there, even if it is | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
other militant groups carrying them out. The violence escalated on 10th | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
November after Palestinian militants fired an anti-tank | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
missile at an Israeli jeep patrolling the Israel-Gaza border. | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
On 14 November 2012, Israeli intelligence carried out a targeted | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
air strike in Gaza City, killing a Hamas military commander as part of | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
a wider series of air strikes. For the first time Palestinian | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
militants have been able to reach as far as Tel Aviv, using Iranian- | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
made missiles. The Israelis have responded deploying interceptor | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
missiles and stepping up air strikes in what they are calling | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
Operation Pillar of Defence. In the last week, the conflict has cost | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
the lives of at least 138 Palestinians and five Israelis. The | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
world now waits to see whether peace talks in Cairo will produce a | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
ceasefire or whether Israel will initiate a ground invasion. Let's | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
speak to the BBC's Gaza Correspondent. We have had those | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
reports of the bomb attack on the bus in Tel Aviv. What will this do | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
to chances of a ceasefire? It could be again changer. It's not just | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
report, it has been confirmed. In the last 15 minutes we have had a | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
massive response from Israel. I was on the roof of the office when | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
seven or eight missiles piled into an area about a kilometre from | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
where I'm sitting now. Huge explosions, massive plumes of smoke | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
mushrooming into the sky. We understand they hit an area which | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
is actually a football and athletics stadium, about one | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
kilometre from where we are. So an immediate response from Israel to | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
the bus bomb. Hamas has claimed responsibility and it has been | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
broadcasting statements from the mosques saying that it managed to | :10:30. | :10:37. | |
get one of the operatives to throw a bomb on to the bus. We heard the | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
sound of celebratory gunfire in Gaza when it happened. Things feel | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
like they could escalate dramatically. So no, violence is | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
escalating. What about the chances of diplomacy in terms of Egypt | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
being a key to a ceasefire? I think you are right, Egypt is the key. We | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
have been told there will not be any ceasefire finalised until we | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
hear the Egyptian President announced it. We thought it was | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
close last night but it did not come. Then we had a massive Israeli | :11:07. | :11:16. | |
attack overnight in Gaza with more than 100 hits. Israeli navy shells | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
pounded Gaza for much of the late evening yesterday, and then there | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
were more airstrikes overnight. When this all started and Hamas's | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
top military commander was killed a week ago, Hamas said it might | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
respond not just with rocket. Today it seems to have proved that it is | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
able to do that, and you cannot stress how much the issue of bomb | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
attacks on buses in Israel's biggest metropolis has on the | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
Israeli Psyche. It could go if two ways. Israel may escalate its | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
operation, and it does seem to have hit back quickly, or you could say | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
that this is Hamas try to put pressure on Israel to say they need | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
take us seriously and get a deal done. Thank you very much. Philip | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
Hammond, what role has the British government played in trying to | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
bring about the ceasefire? We are encouraging both sides to engage in | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
a process of achieving a ceasefire so we can stop the bloodshed and, | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
of course, it is a bit of a plaintive cry, but the age-old cry | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
for progress towards 82 states solution, which is the only way of | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
revolving -- resolving the problem in the long term. We know the | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
Secretary General is out there, and Hillary Clinton is out there, one | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
of her final acts as secretary and that in the illustration. Who do we | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
have help -- helping? We don't have anyone in the ground in Gaza, but | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
clearly we have diplomats on the ground. We do not have anyone else | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
I'm aware of, but the Foreign Secretary has made it clear that we | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
will encourage this process and encourage the Egyptians to act as | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
brokers, as it were. Your correspondent talked about the | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
symbolic significance of attacks on buses in Tel Aviv and, and the fact | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
of this attack this morning will make it almost impossible for the | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
Israeli leadership to engage in the ceasefire process. Whoever has done | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
this has deliberately made it much harder to achieve a ceasefire today. | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
We will see if that is how it pans out. Does the British government | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
have a view on what the shape of a ceasefire should be? That is beyond | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
the literal meaning of the words. Hamas should stop firing rockets | :13:47. | :13:54. | |
into Israel. Israel should step back from any plans, ground attack. | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
But do we have anything beyond the literal meaning? Then we need to | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
get back to the Middle East peace process. We have a new American | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
President. We have to take this opportunity again to reintegrate | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
this process. The ceasefire will have to be fleshed out by more than | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
that. It will require more commitments from the Israelis and | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
further commitments from Hamas. Does the Labour Party have an idea | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
of what the ceasefire should be shaped as? It is really important | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
that the rocket stop being fired from Gaza. That is really | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
important.Favour, I understand that, but how it should be shaped be on | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
that? The Israelis won the shelling to stop, and Hamas and all the | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
people in Gaza won the gates opened, and if they can be opened and trade | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
and aid can going, we can close the tunnels, and then there will be | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
some way of being able to do something. The Israelis invaded a | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
few years ago in order to stop the rocket attacks. Clearly did not | :14:55. | :15:05. | |
:15:05. | :15:06. | ||
work and it has continued. There Right. But if the Israelis are to | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
be asked to stop the blockade, which is what you are suggesting, | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
what will Hamas give in return? They need to stop the shelling. | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
That is not enough for Israel. Stopping the shelling will mean, | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
the rockets, will mean that Israel will stop the shelling and call off | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
the ground invasion. But Israel is not going to agree to taking away | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
the blockade unless they get something watertight in return. | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
What should that be? They are closing the gates and everything is | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
coming through the tunnels. The stuff coming through the tunnels, | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
that's not coming through at all. I heard a couple of giraffes came | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
through the tunnels a couple of weeks ago. With respect, I've asked | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
the Secretary of State and I haven't had an answer from him | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
either, what should Israel demand or insist on return if the blockade | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
is to be lifted either in total or partially? If the blockade is | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
lifted, Toda or partially, then things will go through the gates | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
and Israelis will be able to monitor what goes through. In what | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
way? Because they go through the gates. You can't get anything | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
through by sea. If the blockade is lifted, but Gaza Strip could take | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
anything it wanted by sea. I ask again, because it's an important | :16:20. | :16:27. | |
matter, the ceasefire is more than just a seizing of firing, but the | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
quid pro quo be? It has to be that the fighting stops, that people | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
calm, and we have to have... In the end, there has to be a political | :16:36. | :16:46. | |
:16:46. | :16:47. | ||
solution. Nothing has happened but two years. Be Israel, interesting | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
words from the Secretary of State about the impact this terraced bus | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
bomb may have, if Israel does decide that in its view there is no | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
terms of the ground attack, in your view, would that be illegal under | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
international law? I think that you can defend yourself but you have to | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
do it in a proportion that way. History has shown us that if there | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
is a ground attack, that hundreds of people died. That isn't what I | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
ask you. I'm answering the question but you need to listen. | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
listening and I don't hear an answer. As a Shadow Attorney | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
General, do you believe they ground-attack would be illegal | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
under international law? Your shadow Foreign Secretary has said | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
that Israel should act in accordance with international law, | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
so therefore would a ground attack be illegal under international law? | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
A only if it was deemed and international law to be | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
proportionate. History has shown us that when they had a ground attack | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
before, hundreds of civilians died. The question then is, is that | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
proportion it? Let me bring in Manuel Hassassian, he has been | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
listening to this, he is the Palestinian ambassador to the UK, | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
and also the former adviser to be former Israeli minister in Gaza, | :18:07. | :18:16. | |
deal messing. Does the Palestinian Authority, based on the West Bank, | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
do you have any authority at all in the Gaza Strip over Hamas? | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
given the split that has taken place since 2007, the Palestinian | :18:27. | :18:34. | |
National Authority does not have any control on the security of Gaza, | :18:34. | :18:43. | |
it is in the hands of Hamas. What is your attitude towards... I know | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
you condemn the Israeli attacks on Gaza, but can I ask you, and you | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
obviously don't want a ground attack either, but what is your | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
attitude towards the Hamas rocket attacks on Israel? Actually, we | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
have to understand that these rocket attacks came as a result of | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
air strikes, as a result of the blockade, as a result of | :19:05. | :19:13. | |
humiliating the Palestinians. what is your attitude towards it? | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
All of the killings, these were instigated... What is your attitude | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
towards the rocket strikes, do you support Hamas in sending rockets | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
into Israel or don't you? There is no support or not support. This is | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
a situation where Palestinians of being killed, innocent Palestinians. | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
We want total cessation of this violence. We need this truce to | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
work out in order to salvage the situation and get the Israelis back | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
on the negotiating table. Israel has obviously done a lot more | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
damage to Gaza man Hamas has managed to do to Israel, so why | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
don't you agree to a ceasefire now? The Israeli government was explicit | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
in saying why it would... Going back to give the discussion you've | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
had, I think it's unfortunate that the Palestinian ambassador birds | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
not condemned by a ring of rockets towards civilians. I think it | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
should be noted that Israel is doing everything in its power to | :20:11. | :20:20. | |
:20:21. | :20:22. | ||
avoid civilian casualties. To the question... Everything... Hamas is | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
launching rockets every day on civilians. The term at | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
proportionate retaliation by Israel, only yesterday one missile that had | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
90 kilograms of explosives, hit an apartment building it one of | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
Israel's biggest metropolis that. What is proportionate to this? | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties. Both sides can come on | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
and you can trade these facts from your point of view. I'm trying to | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
get a better understanding of what you are now prepared to do. If a | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
ceasefire can be negotiated by Egypt with the help of the | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
Americans and it stops the firing, what is the next stage? Hamas will | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
want the blockade lifted, never mind the attacks on Gaza. What | :21:09. | :21:16. | |
would Israel require in return for lifting the blockade? There are two | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
things essential for not only the end of this cycle of violence but | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
the Prevention of the next cycle of violence. One thing is, be complete | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
cessation of firing from the Gaza Strip towards Israel. We have not | :21:31. | :21:38. | |
initiated it. 120 missiles were fired towards Israel before that. | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
And an end to the firing of shelling towards Israel. The second | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
thing would be to create a mechanism that would prevent or at | :21:48. | :21:56. | |
least minimise the rearmament of Hamas on the border between Egypt | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
and Gaza. If there would be a mechanism, but now the Egyptians | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
are respectfully trying to sort it out. If there would be a mechanism | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
that would stop the rearmament of missiles to Gaza... This would end | :22:11. | :22:18. | |
this violence and prevent further ones. Mr ambassador, is the PAC, | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
are you prepared to help in the context of a ceasefire, are you | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
prepared to help stopping further Rockets getting into Gaza? We are | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
ready to help, and we are ready to stop the violence if Israel end its | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
occupation. What do you mean by occupation? Your Israeli guest has | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
forgotten that almost 1100 people have been injured and more than 140 | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
innocent Palestinians have been killed. The infrastructure in Gaza | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
is being destroyed, journalists of being attacked. I understand that | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
but I'm trying to move on from that. I'd be grateful if you could answer | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
my question. What would you be prepared to do to stop the further | :23:01. | :23:10. | |
rocket attacks getting into the Gaza Strip? Israel should stop its | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
F-16s and Apaches in hitting innocent civilians and targets that | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
have nothing to do with Hamas or the rockets. What's the answer to | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
my question? We want to end its violence as soon as possible | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
because we have higher stakes than the Israelis. All of these | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
casualties or what, being under siege, and a blockade and being | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
humiliated? Enough is enough. had enough, too, we've run out of | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
time. When you listen to both of them, you realise how difficult it | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
is. There is no attempt even to engage on the issues that need to | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
be engaged on. You and I are just agreeing what many much greater | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
statesman than as have discovered over the years. That this is one of | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
the great intractable problems of our age. How to get this Middle | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
East peace process, the two state solution which almost everybody | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
agrees is an obvious way to go forward, how to turn that into a | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
reality. The two states solution has been overtaken by the fact that | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
the Palestinians are now deeply divided into the West Bank, | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
represented by the ambassador from the Palestinian Authority, and | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
Hamas... Hamas and the Palestinian authorities hate each other as much | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
as they hate the Israelis. This is a very complex situation and there | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
are other actors waiting in the wings. I'm sorry, I know that you | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
are not going to like this but in the end there is no military | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
solution. The fact that nothing has happened but two years just means | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
we've screwed the lid down on a boiling pot and it is bound to keep | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
erupting like this. The only solution in the end is for there to | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
be a settlement. Without that, this problem will always continue. | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
move on. In about 10 minutes it will be time for Prime Minister's | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
Questions. Now that MPs are back at Westminster after a week off, to | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
recharge their batteries, they really needed their batteries | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
recharged. They'd been back all of five weeks! It's a tough job, isn't | :25:12. | :25:20. | |
it? Yes. Ministers don't get the break. Soon after that, the Prime | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
Minister will be jetting off to Brussels to take part in | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
negotiations over the EU budget. He will need to recharge his batteries | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
for that one! With any country able to veto the deal, he'd better look | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
forward to quite a few late nights sessions as they try and hammer out | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
a deal. Which bit of kit should he really be taking with him? | :25:42. | :25:52. | |
Obviously it's a Daily Politics mug full of coffee. To get him through | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
all of these all my tears, that would help. But if you don't win | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
one, I'm afraid you can't take one. We will remind him now to enter, | :26:01. | :26:11. | |
:26:11. | :26:23. | ||
this is how you do it. First, when # But things ain't quite that | :26:23. | :26:33. | |
:26:33. | :26:45. | ||
There was no doubt in my mind that we will win the Cold War. Why do | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
you say that? I think the general opinion in the world is turning in | :26:50. | :27:00. | |
:27:00. | :27:03. | ||
# You're So vain, you probably think this song is about to. -- | :27:03. | :27:13. | |
:27:13. | :27:19. | ||
# People. All-day the Israelis have been | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
pouring enforcement into the Golan Heights, where the original Syrian | :27:22. | :27:32. | |
:27:32. | :27:36. | ||
a strike is more than matched by To be in with a chance of winning, | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
send your answer to our special quiz e-mail address. You can see | :27:43. | :27:52. | |
the full terms and conditions on Let's take a look at Big Ben. It's | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
nearly made date. Prime Minister's questions in a moment. Nick | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
Robinson is with us now. A couple of weeks since PMQs. I can't make | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
up my mind what I think they will go one. An obvious one would be to | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
do the Budget, Ed Miliband talked about it. Although not obvious in | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
the sense that both frontbenchers say they think the same thing about | :28:12. | :28:18. | |
the Budget, so perhaps it wouldn't get anywhere. Another possibility, | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
will the Leader of the opposition want to talk about what you've been | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
talking about, Gaza? Not just because from time to time the | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
leader of the opposition wants to say, this is the most important | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
thing that's happening in the world, we should talk about it, but the | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
Palestinian cause is very close to the hearts of many people in the | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
Labour Party. I remember that Tony Blair got into more trouble, almost, | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
by backing Israel during the Lebanon more war and he had bad | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
back in America over the Iraq war. There was more anger when he was | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
seen to give the green light to the bombing of they've moved. There | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
will be many people in the Labour Party who are very uncomfortable | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
about what's happening in Gaza. It may be that Ed Miliband chooses to | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
voice that. And that set of borrowing figures out for October. | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
The government now borrowing more money last month that it did in | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
20th October 11. That is assuming that these figures that came out | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
for the first time are accurate. I can't tell you how many discussions | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
we've had in this studio based on figures that turned out not to be | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
right. Particularly on growth. Borrowing forecasts have always | :29:22. | :29:30. | |
been dreadful. The Treasury has a terrible record of the forecast. I | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
don't know, you might think there would be that in the run-up to that | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
important Autumn Statement. It's one of those days where there's no | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
obvious news story for Ed Miliband. But there are a lot of markers he | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
could put down. Finally, I predicted it last time I was on but | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
I was wrong, all leaders of the opposition have a final mark if | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
it's a quiet day, try and get this one running. There may be something | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
on a cause dear to his heart, health, for example. You couldn't | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
rely out energy prices. difficulty is rhetorically David | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
Cameron would say to him, I've done what I said I would do. Labour and | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
others are deeply sceptical about whether the words will mean what | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
they say in practice. But it's not easy to prove it. Essentially, at | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
this stage it is one man's word against another. It's not until BCB | :30:24. | :30:34. | |
:30:34. | :30:34. | ||
energy bills. That is the first time we will know. Europe forms the | :30:34. | :30:44. | |
:30:44. | :30:51. | ||
A whole House will wish to join me in sending our sympathies to the | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
family of Captain Waugh to Barry. He was described as a fantastic and | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
engaging soldier -- wall to Barry. Our nation must never forgive -- | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
forget his service or sacrifice. This morning I had meetings with | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
ministerial colleagues and others and in addition to my duties in the | :31:07. | :31:14. | |
house I will have more the meetings later today. Can I join the Prime | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
Minister in paying tribute to captain Barry and all of our | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
soldiers working in Afghanistan. In Stoke-on-Trent, libraries are | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
closing, teachers are being laid off and youth clubs are shutting | :31:24. | :31:32. | |
their doors. Given that public funds are so precious, Mr Speaker, | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
does the Prime Minister think it was a good use of taxpayers' money | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
to waste �100 million on the farcical police and crime | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
Commissioner elections in November? I think it is good that right | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
across the country we are now going to have local law and order | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
champions who will stand up for the public and make sure we get a good | :31:54. | :32:00. | |
deal from the police. I have noticed that Labour have two | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
criticisms aren't Police and Crime Commissioners, on the one hand week | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
spent too much money, and on the other we didn't spend enough money | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
promoting it. I'm prepared to accept one criticism all the other, | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
but not both. The British government borrowed from investors | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
a record low levels saving taxpayers millions of pounds this | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
week. Does he see this as more evidence that the economic plans | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
are working? My Honourable Friend makes a good point that because of | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
the fact we have a credible plan to get on top of debt and deficit and | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
show how we will pay away in the world, we have record low interest | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
rates which were described by the Shadow Chancellor as the key test | :32:41. | :32:50. | |
of economic credibility. Mr Speaker, can I start by joining the Prime | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
Minister in paying tribute to Captain Barry. He showed the utmost | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
courage and bravery, and all our thoughts and condolences are with | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
his family and friends. Can I also express my deep sorrow about the | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
loss of life and suffering in Israel and Gaza in recent days, | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
including the latest appalling terrorist attack on a bus in Tel | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
Aviv. Mr Speaker, there is widespread support on all sides of | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
the house for an immediate and durable ceasefire being agreed in | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
Israel and Gaza. So will the Prime Minister set out, in his view, what | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
are the remaining barriers to the ceasefire agreement now been | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
reached? First of all, can I say how much I agree with the Right | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
Honourable Gentleman about the appalling news of the terrorist | :33:34. | :33:41. | |
attack on a bus in Tel Aviv. Can I also express our deep concern at | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
the intolerable situation for people in southern Israel and the | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
grave loss of life in Gaza. He asked specifically what more we can | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
do to help bring the ceasefire about. I think that all of us, | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
right across the European Union, including America and beyond, need | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
to be putting pressure both on the Israeli Prime Minister than all of | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
those that have contacts with Hamas to de escalate, to stop the | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
fighting, to stop the bombing, and that is what I have done. I spoke | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
twice to the Israeli Prime Minister over the weekend, wants to the | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
President of Israel and my Right Honourable Friend the Foreign | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
Secretary is working hard on this to persuade both sides that we need | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
a ceasefire. Then beyond that, we need proper discussions about the | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
future of Israel and Palestine. Speaker, I agree with the Prime | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
Minister, and he is right to say that any such ceasefire deal can | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
only be turned into permanent peace if there are meaningful | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
presumptions of negotiations between the states about A2 state | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
solution. This weekend as shown us that there is neither piece or a | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
piece process. The reality is that the international community does | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
bear some responsibility for the abject failure of having those | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
meaningful negotiations nine years on from the promise of the road map | :34:57. | :35:04. | |
to peace. Can he set out to the House what steps beyond the hoped- | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
for ceasefire need to be taken to put pressure on both sides into | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
kneeing -- meaningful negotiation? First of all let me agreed that we | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
need we need a process put in place, and we need to do everything we can | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
to persuade Barack Obama that this should be a leading priority for | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
his presidential term. But I would make the point that whilst we all | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
want the process and we all want this piece, in the end, peace can | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
only come about by Israelis and Palestinians sitting down and | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
talking through the final status issues. They have to discuss | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
borders, Jerusalem, refugees. In the end, as Barack Obama is fond of | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
saying, and by the degree, we cannot wanted more than they wanted. | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
-- and I agree. We cannot want it more than they want it. We need | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
them to talk through these final- status issues. But Mr Speaker, that | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
is completely right, but we have to use every means at our disposal to | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
pressure sides into those negotiations because the reality is | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
that the confidence that they can be that state solution is dwindling | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
month by month. There will be an opportunity to support the course | :36:15. | :36:23. | |
of the 2up state solution later this month, recognising enhanced | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
Observer priority. We have supported this because we think it | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
will strengthen the moderate voices within the Palestinian to want to | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
pursue the path of politics and not violence. Can I urge the Prime | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
Minister to consider opting this position in the days ahead? First | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
of all, let me greet with the first part of what he said, that | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
confidence is dwindling -- let me agree. That is why there is such a | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
sense of urgency amongst the international community. This could | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
be the last chance for peace. The facts on the ground are changing. | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
It is so much in Israel's interest to push for the solution that we | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
should keep up the pressure. On the issue of a potential vote at the | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
United Nations, it is our view, and the Foreign Secretary said this out | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
yesterday, that the Palestinians should not take it to the un in the | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
short term and we have urged them not to do that. If we do that, we | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
have to consider the right way to vote. But in the end, we will not | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
solve this problem at the United Nations. This problem will be sold | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
by Israelis and Palestinians sitting down and negotiating and | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
there may be dangers from pushing it too early at the un in terms of | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
a cut-off of funds for the Palestinian Authority and all the | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
other consequences that could follow. So in the end, let's get | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
negotiations going rather than discussions at the United Nations. | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
A if the Prime Minister wants to send a clear message that Scotland | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
and England belong together. Should he not be doing his best to make | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
sure that the principal road from London to Edinburgh is a modern | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
dual-carriageway and doesn't become a country lane? My Right Honourable | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
Friend makes a very attractive spending bid for the Autumn | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
Statement, and whilst my Right Honourable Friend the Chancellor is | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
not here, I'm sure of the Treasury colleagues will have listened | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
closely. The Prime Minister claimed Universal Credit would bring about | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
the most fundamental and radical change to the welfare system since | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
it began. Given that the Government's propensity for | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
shambles, can he guarantee that the second phase of Universal Credit | :38:30. | :38:37. | |
will be implemented in 20th April 14 and not delayed? Universal | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
Credit is a good Reform and I thought it was welcomed across the | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
house because it was going to put in place proper work incentives for | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
people at all levels of income and it is also highly progressive in | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
channelling money to those who need it most. I can 10 look the | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
Honourable Lady that it is on time and long credit -- on budget and it | :38:55. | :39:04. | |
will have a pilot scheme starting Mr Speaker, the person responsible | :39:04. | :39:12. | |
for the murder of Bheki Edwards in my constituency has not been | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
brought to justice because incriminating evidence was excluded | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
as part of a court process. Would my Right Honourable Friend join our | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
calls for a thorough review of Code C of the Police and Criminal | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
evidence Act so terrible situations like this don't happen if in | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
future? Fire will look carefully at what my Honourable Friend has | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
raised and the specific case -- I will look carefully. And also the | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
Police and Criminal evidence Act. It is important that all | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
information that can be put in front of a court is put in front of | :39:44. | :39:54. | |
:39:54. | :39:55. | ||
a court so it can reach the correct Cuts in frontline police together | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
with cuts to police pensions and conditions of service has led to | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
96% of the police force believing that this government does not | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
support them. Does the Prime Minister think that is a problem, | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
and if so what will he do about it? This government strongly supports | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
the police service and what they do. These are people who go out every | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
day and put their lives on the line to keep the rest of us say. Frankly, | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
whoever was in government right now would have to be making cuts to | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
police budgets. But if we look at what is happening in policing, we | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
have seen a number of neighbourhood police going up. The percentage of | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
police on the front line has gone up and we see the number of police | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
in back-office roles going down. Crucially, crime is down and | :40:39. | :40:46. | |
satisfaction with the police is up. So people don't have to wade | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
through hundreds of bamboozling tariff plans, will Prime Minister | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
confirm that this Government will legislate to ensure people can | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
access the best deals, something the leader of opposition failed to | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
do as energy secretary? I am delighted to tell my honourable | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
friend that having stood at the Despatch Box and saying we wanted | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
to ensure that people got access to the lowest tariffs, that is exactly | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
what we have achieved. If there are colleagues opposite to have a doubt | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
about this, let me quote the Labour shadow energy minister who said | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
this about the change, it means some of the most expensive deals | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
would go, being able to reduce the number of tariffs will help people | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
get a clearer picture of what is happening, and that can only be a | :41:29. | :41:38. | |
good thing. That is the sort of endorsement that I welcome. | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
Speaker, the government promised that there should be no rationing | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
in the NHS on grounds of cost alone. Can the Prime Minister tell us | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
whether he has kept the promise? The promise we have kept is that we | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
have said we would increase NHS spending every year under this | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
government, and in England that is what is happening. In Wales, of | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
course, there is a massive cut in the NHS because it is run by Labour. | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
First of all, Mr Speaker, there are 7,000 fewer nurses in the NHS than | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
when he came to power. But I was asking a very specific question | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
about the promise made by the then Health Secretary, and I know you'd | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
sacked him and he is now leader of the house, but he promised a year | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
ago that there would be no rationing on the grounds of cost | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
alone. This is what the President of the Royal are pathologists -- | :42:32. | :42:39. | |
ophthalmologists said. He said this: primary care trusts are not | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
following a government guidelines. Half of health commissioners are | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
restricting access to cataract surgery. I don't think you should | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
ask for help, you got rid of him from the post. Can the Prime | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
Minister tell me why, for the first time in six years, the number of | :42:57. | :43:03. | |
cataract operations actually fell last year? What I can tell him is | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
that under this government the number of doctors is up, the number | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
of operations is up, waiting times are down, that is what is happening | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
because we took the responsible decision. He quotes Primary Care | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
trusts. Of course, we are abolishing Primary Care trusts and | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
putting that money in the frontline services. That is what is happening | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
under this government. They believe, he believes, that increasing | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
spending on the NHS is irresponsible. We think it is the | :43:30. | :43:37. | |
right thing to do. Mr Speaker, once again, he has no clue about the | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
detail. He has no idea what is actually happening on the ground. | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
Give him credit, Mr Speaker, he did make history this week. He has got | :43:46. | :43:56. | |
:43:56. | :43:58. | ||
his very own word in the Oxford English Omnishambles. He is basted | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
-- wasted millions of pounds on a top down reorganisation that nobody | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
wanted or voted for. Just like he wasted millions of pounds on Police | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
Commissioner elections. He doesn't listen, he's out of touch, and last | :44:11. | :44:18. | |
Thursday the people of Corby spoke for the country. Last Thursday the | :44:18. | :44:28. | |
:44:28. | :44:37. | ||
people of Humberside spoke of a There is more. Because the former | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, said this. This is not | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
just about the police. This is a referendum on everything this | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
Government has done - on health, education, the local authorities. | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
People took the first opportunity to kick him out. On the subject of | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
making history this week, I think the leader of the Labour Party made | :44:57. | :45:04. | |
some history this week. He told his conference he wanted to be Disraeli, | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
he told them he wanted to be Margaret Thatcher. He said on | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
Europe, he's more eurosceptic than Bill Cash. Then he went to the CBI | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
and said he loved Europe even more than Tony Blair. He has | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
impersonated more politicians than Rory Bremner. But this time the | :45:20. | :45:30. | |
:45:30. | :45:36. | ||
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does my right honourable friend, the Prime | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
Minister, agree with me that a free press is one of the cornerstones of | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
a true democracy, and that any attempt to muzzle newspapers, such | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
as the excellent Kent Messenger Group in my own constituency, | :45:50. | :45:57. | |
should be strenuously resisted? Honourable Friend makes an | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
important point. I joined him in my admiration for the Kent Messenger | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
Group and all they do. It is important because the problems we | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
have had in our newspaper industry have not really been about regional | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
and local titles that perform an incredibly important function in | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
our democratic system. I think we all have to wait for the Leveson | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
inquiry report and study that carefully and then respond to what | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
he said. Allow me to present a tale of two companies. The first is a | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
comic company in my constituency who pays seven people and pays | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
every penny of tax on time. Amazon UK brings in revenue of up to �4.5 | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
billion and yet last year paid less than �1 million in tax. Will the | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
Prime Minister follow the example of the French government, which has | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
issued a back claim for unpaid tax against Amazon, or will he allow us | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
to draw our own conclusions about whose side he is on? I think that | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
is an important point about making sure that companies make their | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
contributions and tax payments in our country. We have put an extra | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
�900 million specifically into the Inland Revenue to try and make sure | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
that we do probably get individuals and companies to pay their taxes. I | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
announced yesterday that one of the key priorities of the G8, which I | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
will be chairing from January, in County Fermanagh in Northern | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
Ireland in June next year, one of the priorities will be to make sure | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
we get proper international agreements so that companies pay | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
their taxes properly. Could I highlight to my right honourable | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
friend a free school which is opening in Wolverhampton this year? | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
This will be in one of the most deprived wards of Wolverhampton and | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
will provide a re-electable social mobility for young people. It is a | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
tangible advert for what this government is doing in terms of | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
education, and he's more than welcome to visit. That's a very | :47:53. | :47:59. | |
kind invitation. I held a recent meeting at Number 10 for all of the | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
78 free schools that have been established over the last two-and- | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
a-half years. We are making good progress. I want to see many | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
hundreds of free schools established between now and the | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
next election. Whereas the last government managed 200 academies in | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
13 years, we've done 2000 in two- and-a-half years. Academies, pre- | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
schools, we want to give this agenda the biggest possible boost | :48:21. | :48:28. | |
we can. Question number seven, closed question. I look forward to | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
visiting Scotland soon and will obviously look carefully at whether | :48:30. | :48:38. | |
I can visit the Honourable Gentleman's constituency. A few | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
months ago he came to my constituency and was going to give | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
me the opportunity of taking him around. One of the areas I was | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
going to take him to was the shipyard, where I had my | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
apprenticeship as do many years ago, he would probably have been in | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
short trousers. But outside the door of that shipyard on a Thursday | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
was a man called the tally man, who was a loan shark. He charged half a | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
crown, which is 12 and a half pence, a week per pound for the loan he | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
would give the shipyard worker. Today we are hearing all about... | :49:13. | :49:20. | |
Can we have a question? Now. question is, you hold one of the | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
great offices of the state, so does the Prime Minister. What is he | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
personally going to do to drive these sharks out of our economies? | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
I did enjoy my visit to true love. I may be offered to the Honourable | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
Gentleman then that I would happily share a platform with him to defend | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
our United Kingdom. For some reason the invitation got lost in the post. | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
I make the offer again. He makes a serious point about pay-day loans. | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
We have seen the OFT report, which is a preliminary report. I think we | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
do need to take action. That is why we are giving the Office of Fair | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
Trading a new power to suspend a consumer credit licence with | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
immediate effect where there is an urgent need to protect consumers. | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
The OFT report shows many companies are not sticking to the guidelines | :50:07. | :50:14. | |
set out and that is not acceptable. Has he seen the recent experience | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
study which showed that Milton Keynes is the area of the UK best | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
placed to lead economic growth, with forecasts of 3.1 % in the next | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
year? My Honourable Friend is a great spokesman for Milton Keynes | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
and has welcomed me them many times. It does have a successful economy | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
based largely on small and medium- sized enterprises. One of the | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
things we need to change in Milton Keynes and elsewhere is to get the | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
housing market moving again. I'm convinced that is an important part | :50:43. | :50:50. | |
of driving recovery in our economy. Many young apprentices receive very | :50:50. | :50:56. | |
low wages. The youngest only �2.60 per hour. So is it fair for the | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
Prime Minister to take away housing benefit from young people who | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
simply cannot live with their parents but are trying really hard | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
to build a future for themselves? This government strongly supports | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
the growth of apprenticeships. We've seen something like 1 million | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
new apprenticeships under this government. On the issue of housing | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
benefit, which I know is an important issue, I think where | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
there is a problem, and this is something that needs proper | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
attention, is we do seem to give some young people a choice today | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
which is if you are on jobseeker's allowance you can have access to | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
housing benefit, whereas if you are living at home and trying to work | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
you can't. We need to recognise that the signals we sent through | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
our welfare system are in many cases sending a negative signal to | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
young people. Is it still the Prime Minister's intention that this | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
should be the greenest government ever? Yes, it is. It is this | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
government that in record time has established a green investment bank | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
which is now in Edinburgh and starting to make loans. I'm sure | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
the Prime Minister agrees with me that a government spokesman | :52:04. | :52:06. | |
describing the children's Commissioner's report into child | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
abuse today as hysterical is extremely unhelpful. Victims of | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
abuse already find it difficult to come forward, including those who | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
were reduced by Cyril Smith in Rochdale. On that issue, will the | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
Prime Minister now help these victims by publishing all the | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
police files on that Smith and ensure a police investigation takes | :52:27. | :52:34. | |
place into all the allegations and into any cover-up? On the first. | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
Barbara, it's a very serious issue that is being examined. It is an | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
interim report that we need to study closely. It has some | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
extremely disturbing findings. We need to give every encouragement to | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
the commissioner, to make sure that the final version of the report is | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
produced. On the specific issue he raises, which is a very serious | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
allegation about a former member of this House, I understand that | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
Greater Manchester police have confirmed they will investigate any | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
allegations of sexual abuse involving the late Sir Cyril Smith, | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
that happened from 1974 onwards. I would say to all members of this | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
house, particularly in the light of what has happened in the last few | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
weeks, if anyone has information and facts, then take them to the | :53:18. | :53:27. | |
police. That is the way we should Businesses are helping to cut the | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
borrowing deficit by paying tax on their profits, but some | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
multinationals appear to be paying very low amounts of UK corporate | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
tax, like Starbucks and Amazon. I wonder if the Prime Minister could | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
tell the House whether he thinks this part of the tax code needs | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
investigating? I think it does. I've asked the Treasury to do that. | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
They are looking as hard as they can at what can be done. There are | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
clearly some things that one can do nationally. But because we live in | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
a competitive, global economy where companies can move capital around, | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
move their headquarters around, move money around, you do need | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
greater international agreements. We come to an important national | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
agreement with Switzerland, which is going to recover billions of | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
pounds in tax for our country, but we need to work hard, and that is | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
where the G8 can help, to make sure we get a fair share of tax from | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
companies, particularly given the fact that Britain is doing its part | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
to cut rates of tax down to the most competitive in the world. | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
Prime Minister quite rightly praised the wonderful work of | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
London's emergency services during the Olympics, Paralympics and Her | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
Majesty's Jubilee. Does he share with me the concern of the London | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
public that the numbers of fire stations that are threatened with | :54:43. | :54:48. | |
closure, in particular the one in Clapham old town in my constituency, | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
and would he joined the campaign to save it and would he also agree | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
that it's not right to choose a fire station to close it, simply | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
because it is on very expensive land? This is an issue for the | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
berne macro as well as for the government. I will look closely at | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
what she says. We all have to recognise that the most important | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
thing in terms of the emergency services is the time it takes for | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
them to get to an incident. While all of us as constituency MPs on | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
naturally focused on the bricks and mortar items of whether it is | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
ambulance stations or fire stations or indeed other facilities, what | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
really matters for our constituents is how quickly do the emergency | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
services get them and how good is the service when they do? Does my | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
right honourable friend share my deep disappointment, and I know | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
that of many on all sides, that yesterday the Church of England | :55:44. | :55:52. | |
failed to make proper provision for women bishops? A sad day for our | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
national Church and our national character, particularly given that | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
42 out of 44 diocese had voted overwhelmingly in support of women | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
bishops. And it's not the consequence of the Bolt, not the | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
danger of the Church of England being in some disestablishment, but | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
simply does interest. I think my right honourable friend speaks with | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
great expertise and knowledge. On a personal basis, I'm a strong | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
supporter of women bishops and I'm very sad about the way it went | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
yesterday. I'm particularly sad for the Archbishop of Canterbury, | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
because he saw this as a major campaign that he wanted to achieve | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
at the end of his excellent tenure of that office. It's important for | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
the Church of England to be a modern church in touch with society, | :56:37. | :56:43. | |
as it is today, and this was a key step they needed to take. The Prime | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
Minister promised that his start-up loan scheme would provide 2500 | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
loans to young entrepreneurs to get their business ideas off the ground. | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
Only 43 loans have been granted. Why hasn't he delivered on his | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
promise? The start-up loans Initiative is a very strong one. I | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
want to look at putting more resources into it because I think | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
there is a major demand for it. At the same time, there is the | :57:09. | :57:10. | |
Enterprise Allowance Scheme that originally was only available after | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
people had been unemployed for three months. Under this government | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
is going to be available from the first day of being unemployed. | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
Looking back to the 1980s, many people used the scheme to start up | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
their first business, their first rung on the ladder. Those are the | :57:25. | :57:33. | |
sorts of people we want to help. Angela Watkinson. Would the Prime | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
Minister join me in congratulating Draper's Academy in the most | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
deprived ward in my constituency, sponsored by the Drapers Company | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
and Queen Mary College London, in only its second year it has become | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
the fastest improving school in the whole country and is a wonderful | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
example of the government's academy scheme. I certainly join her. I | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
think one of the strengths of the Academy programme is getting | :57:58. | :58:04. | |
sponsors like the Drapers Company, like businesses and other | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
organisations to get behind the school and help change the culture | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
and help improve it. That is why last week we set a new target for | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
academies taking over failing primary schools. We think academies | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
shouldn't be restricted to secondary schools. We want to see | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
sponsored academies taking over primary schools where results | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
aren't good enough. Everyone can focus on there are schools in some | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
inner-city areas that because of effective Academy sponsors are | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
doing better than schools in some of the leafy suburbs. We could use | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
this change to drive at aspiration and achievement across our | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
education system. Following his answer to the Honourable Member for | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
Banbury, given that the Church of England is the established Church, | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
would he consider what this Parliament can do to ensure that | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
the overwhelming will of members of the Church of England and of this | :58:54. | :59:01. | |
country is respected? I will look carefully at what he says. But what | :59:01. | :59:07. | |
I would say is the Church has its own processes and elections, hard | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
for some of us to understand. We have to respect individual | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
institutions and the decisions they make. But it doesn't mean we should | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
hold back and saying what we think. I'm clear that time is right for | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
women bishops, it was right many years ago. They need to get on with | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
it and get with the programme. But you do have to respect the | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
individual institutions and the way they work, while giving them a shop | :59:29. | :59:38. | |
abroad. A cut in this country's EU budget rebate, which was agreed to | :59:38. | :59:44. | |
buy the last Labour government, is now costing taxpayers �2 billion | :59:44. | :59:49. | |
every single year. Will the Prime Minister please confirm that in the | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
forthcoming budget negotiations, he will not agree to any further | :59:54. | :00:00. | |
reduction in this rebate? I can certainly give that assurance. The | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher is an incredibly important | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
part of Britain's position in Europe, and making sure we get a | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
fair deal. It is extraordinary that the last government gave away | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
almost half of that rebate. We've never heard one word of apology or | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
regret for the fact that however hard we fight in Europe, and we are | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
fighting incredibly hard this week for a good deal, they cut away our | :00:25. | :00:34. | |
feet by giving away half the rebate. Could I congratulate the Prime | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
Minister on his very wise decision to bring the G8 summit to County | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
Fermanagh? Could I confirm to the Prime Minister that the enthusiasm | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
with which that decision has been received with in the manner, but | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
could I ask him that he believes it would be possible to bring further | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
prestigious events to Northern Ireland in future? I will look at | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
that. I believed it really is the right decision for the G8 to be | :01:00. | :01:08. | |
based in Northern Ireland in June. What was interesting yesterday, | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
standing with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister in | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
Northern Ireland, talking about the situation, something that would be | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
unthinkable 20 years ago, to have that sort of event with so many | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
world leaders coming to Northern Ireland. I think it will be a great | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
adverse -- advertisement for Northern Ireland and for everything | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
that people in Northern Ireland at -- can achieve. Does the Prime | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
Minister agree that the UK' retention of its triple-A status | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
when France lost its this week, shows that the UK retains the | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
confidence of international markets because of the difficult but | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
necessary decisions that we are taking? That's a good. Barbara, | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
which is because we have set out a clear plan, we are able to have low | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
interest rates, able to have international confidence, which is | :01:56. | :02:06. | |
:02:06. | :02:08. | ||
the absolute of the proper growth A rather subdued Prime Minister's | :02:08. | :02:16. | |
Questions to date. -- today. Ed Miliband divided his six questions | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
he is allowed. He divided them into two. The first part was on the | :02:21. | :02:29. | |
situation in Gaza. There is largely frontbench consensus on that. Then | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
he came back and ask some questions on the NHS, which Martha -- rather | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
surprised us in the studio. It is not an issue which is on the agenda | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
this week. Dog that didn't bark until the question at the very end | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
was the upcoming Brussels summit on the European budget and prisoners | :02:49. | :02:59. | |
:02:59. | :03:09. | ||
There seems to be more inquiries about what happened then than there | :03:09. | :03:18. | |
is today. There wasn't really a clear threat will way through the | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
Israeli Palestinians. Mr Cameron must wish he should go on a foreign | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
trip every Wednesday after his awful performance at the Despatch | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
Box, says one commentator. Mr Miliband wrong-footed the Prime | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
Minister with clever questions on the Palestinian issue. Never buy | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
Roberto beneath -- never mind Roberto Di Matteo, Ed Miliband is | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
not worthy of leading his team. So much ammo he could have fired, but | :03:43. | :03:50. | |
he came up with wishy-washy questions. A feeble performance. Jo | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
Moore in the Netherlands says David Cameron is grabbing at straws when | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
he has to refer to John Prescott failure to win in Humberside. | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
Surely an average of 50% of people voting does not give the Prime | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
Minister any right to boast, after all it was his brainchild to have | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
the elections. Martin Bristow from Wolverhampton. How does Labour get | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
away with the charge that they would be spending less on the NHS | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
than the government is now? David Cameron annihilated Ed Miliband. Mr | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
Austin in London says David Cameron said there would be lower bills for | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
consumers, but experts say there is likely to be a levelling process | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
that will result in this -- new, so-called low tariff costing more | :04:30. | :04:38. | |
than the current one. This is the risk, as some people see it. Before | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
I bring in the panel, let me show you the latest pictures from Gaza. | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
They were taken within the last hour or so. A series of explosions. | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
The level of violence there does not really appear to be coming down | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
on either side. Very serious explosions in the centre of an | :04:58. | :05:06. | |
urban area in Gaza. Still no word yet on any ceasefire, as these | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
pictures clearly illustrate. And if you're just joining us there has | :05:10. | :05:18. | |
been a terrorist attack on a bus in Tel Aviv this morning. About 17 | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
people injured, but it seems none seemed to have two serious injuries, | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
fortunately. No fatalities, anyway. It is strange to go on the NHS in a | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
way, given that we have a Brussels budget that will dominate the news. | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
As you saw, David Cameron was prepared to tease Ed Miliband with | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
the elaborate joke about whether he is Disraeli or Margaret Thatcher. | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
That is because Ed Miliband went to the CBI and said he would stand up | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
for Britain staying in Europe, but a couple of weeks ago he voted with | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
the hardline Euro-sceptics in the Conservative Party to embarrass and | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
defeat the government on the EU budget. You can make a case that | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
both are consistent, but the reason he did not go was because he knew | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
that David Cameron would be waiting for him on that. Therefore he has | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
taken a study done by the Royal College of ophthalmologists and | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
said that there was evidence that the first Labour had made about the | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
NHS budgets has a real impact. In other words, people are being | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
denied operations they ought to have, cataract operations. | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
Sometimes in Prime Minister's Questions, viewers don't see this | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
way, but they are about putting down markers, not just getting a | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
victory on the day all raising morale. They are about putting a | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
marker down, asking a question to refer back to. And you can put | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
something on the agenda as well. It may not ignite, but it could be a | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
slow burner. One Gaza, some of the things were the same, but there was | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
a difference. Ed Miliband was saying that Labour would support | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
the Palestinian Authority, going into the United Nations and | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
applying for statehood. Remember the Palestinians are not officially | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
recognised as a state. This would be seen by Israel as a deeply | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
provocative act and it would be likely to be vetoed by the United | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
States. Up until now, the British government have not so they are | :07:13. | :07:23. | |
against, they said they would not if I were you. What they are asking | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
for is enhanced observer status. The Palestinians themselves have a | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
problem with the state because of it is the P A that go there, it | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
won't include Hamas and Gaza. And what about the boundaries of the | :07:36. | :07:43. | |
state? What about the 400,000 settlements. The underlying thought | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
was they should get President Obama involved, but not the slightest | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
sign he wants to get involved, not least advised by his outgoing | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She won't be there long, but she | :07:56. | :08:04. | |
realised when her husband was president, Sheikh found no deal was | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
done -- she put in at a lot of work and found no deal was done. We will | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
put all this energy in and you get nowhere. There is a huge symbolism | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
that has not dawned on London that this is the first president who, | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
after winning an election or getting re-elected, chose to go to | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
south-east Asia. Because this is the Pacific President, that is the | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
whole thrust of the second term, the sources in Washington Tel-Me | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
will be to face to the Pacific. He visited Thailand, Cambodia and | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
Burma. And Burma, for special reasons, but all three have borders | :08:40. | :08:48. | |
with China. There was a huge announcement, largely ignored here | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
in London, that the Secretary of State for Defence in the Pentagon | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
has announced that from now on 60% of US naval assets and will be in | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
the Pacific. 40% will be elsewhere, including the Atlantic, instead of | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
50/50. Whether we like it or not, this is a superpower Batty's | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
repositioning its focus. -- Batty's repositioning. I think that's right. | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
The US has responded to the strategic challenge posed by China, | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
and the fact, whether we like it or not, that the Loat -- most likely | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
flashpoint for any confrontation involving China and its neighbours | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
in the coming decades is likely to be in the South China Sea where | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
there are scores of disputed islands and areas. I think we | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
should be positive about this. The fact that the US is willing to rise | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
to this strategic challenge is something that NATO should | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
celebrate. It means we in European NATO have to do more in our own | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
defence and near abroad, which includes North Africa and the | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
Middle East. We would not be able to respond to the strategic | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
challenge posed by China if China had chosen not to do that. This is | :10:05. | :10:12. | |
a sensible division of labour, as it were, among the NATO alliance. I | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
do not know if this is being discussed at the MoD, but if it | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
looks as though Gaza is not containable. In other words, it is | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
drawing in and possibly over spilling into the Syrian conflict, | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
then it becomes a strategic threat to the United States. In no longer | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
stays as another flashpoint in this long-running regional problem, it | :10:32. | :10:40. | |
becomes something more serious. have to see the Israeli and Gaza | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
problem in the context of a wider Middle East. There is the | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
continuing stand-off with a ramp, the chaos in Syria -- Iran, and the | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
chaos in Syria. I think that the United States will believe it | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
always has a sufficient strategic leverage with his rare to prevent | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
Israel from doing something -- Israel to prevent them from doing | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
something that leads to a strategic disadvantage. It does have pretty | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
strong leaders in terms of Israel. It I hear what you say. I think | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
there are a lot of people, a lot of European friends of America who | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
wish the Americans would focus on the Israel and Palestine conflict | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
again. I hear what you say about Barack Obama having other things to | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
do, but we should be saying loud and clear, please get involved in | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
this and usual authority. He shows no inclination to do so. | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
understand that, but isn't European of friends need to tell him. Today | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
-- today, he gets only 10% of imported oil from the Middle East, | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
the US. By the time Barack Obama leaves the White House he will get | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
no oil from the Middle East. It changes America's geopolitical | :11:51. | :12:01. | |
focus. The Attorney General has refused to intervene in the case of | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
an SAS soldier jailed for 18 months for possessing a pistol he said was | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
given to him as a "gift" after service in Iraq. Last night, | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
Sergeant Danny Nightingale's wife handed in a petition to Downing | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
Street. Her husband pleaded guilty to the offence, but claims he | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
suffered medical problems affecting his memory, and didn't remember | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
having the weapon. Our Defence Correspondent, Jonathan Beale, | :12:17. | :12:26. | |
joins us. The thank you for coming onto the programme. Where does the | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
sergeants case now rest as we speak today? As I understand it, this | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
afternoon his wife and his lawyers will be lodging the appeal at the | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
High Court. They want the sentence quashed, and they want him out on | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
bail. They say he was essentially forced to plead guilty in this | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
incident, and let's look at the mitigating circumstances, which did | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
come up in his court martial, which is the first of all he did not pack | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
the weapon. It was given to him as a gift while he was serving Iraq. | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
He had to go back early from Iraq to organise the funeral of two of | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
his comrades. He was then locked up at a secure location. That said, he | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
was then it moved around and ended up in military accommodation that | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
was outside of the line, in other words not a secure location, not | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
just this 9 mm pistol, but also it more than 300 rounds of ammunition | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
double found in a container under his bed. -- that were found. He | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
said he suffered memory loss and he was on a gruelling charity marathon | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
run in Brazil in 2009 where he fell into a coma and he has suffered | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
memory loss. He said he forgot he had begun. But clearly the evidence | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
is fairly damning, and there is a prohibited weapon found which was | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
not in a secure location. That said, the Defence Secretary clearly feels | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
the heat of a growing public campaign for his release. I think | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
there are some in uniform he would ask the question if this was the | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
right way to go about justice. In other words, should this man who | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
has given so many years' loyal service to the British Army, who | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
has been a key seven for the SAS, should he have got a custodial | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
sentence -- key servant. He could have got five years. If you or me | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
had a gun in our cupboard and ammunition under the bed, we would | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
have been looking at a sentence longer than five years. There is | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
mitigating circumstances and they were looked at, but there are still | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
people who question whether he should have been locked up. | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
Jonathan, thank you very much. You mentioned the defence secretary and | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
he sits here now. You asked the Attorney General to review the | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
conviction. Why? We also share a sense of frustration in the case. I | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
have no power to intervene. The service prosecution authorities | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
Independent as is the judicial system. But there is a test which | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
has to be applied before a prosecution is brought, whether in | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
a military court or civil court, about whether it is in the public | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
interest. And particularly in the case of a service prosecution, in | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
the interest of the service, for the prosecution to be brought. I | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
wanted to be sure in my own mind that that test had been properly | :15:19. | :15:26. | |
applied. I take that test to be contextual. Given that plenty of | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
people have popped up, ex-military men, and said they had done | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
something similar in the past, I wanted to be sure that the context | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
of military service and what goes on, whether it was right or wrong, | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
what actually goes on in practice. Whether that had been taken into | :15:42. | :15:52. | |
:15:52. | :15:54. | ||
account. Did you get the Did you get that reassurance? | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
wrote back to me to say it was not appropriate for him even to review | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
the application of that test because we were yesterday, and we | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
are still this morning, within the appeal period. We all know it is | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
very likely that an appeal will be lodged. So the case is in some | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
case... Were you disappointed by the response of the Attorney | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
General? I'd hoped I would get some reassurance one way or the other, | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
but I understand that the Attorney General has responsibilities within | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
the judicial process. He obviously has to take them seriously. | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
were you concerned or even surprised that the Attorney General | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
issued a press release, went public on your inquiry within minutes of | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
telling you he would intervene. It was an instant response. He clearly | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
felt it was necessary for him to state publicly that he was not | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
getting involved in a process that was still potentially before the | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
courts. I understand that the Attorney General has two hats. He's | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
a politician and a member of the cabinet, but he's also a senior | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
officer within the judicial structure. He clearly felt it was | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
necessary to do that. The team knew that when you wrote to him, but you | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
were still hoping for some progress on what you clearly regard as a | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
vital issue. To be clear, I wasn't expecting the Attorney General to | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
make a public response. I was asking for private advice and | :17:22. | :17:29. | |
guidance on this particular matter. Where we are now... Did you ask him | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
publicly or privately? Did you tell the press that you were going to | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
get in touch with the Attorney General? And I didn't make any | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
secret of that fact. So the public knew he'd been asked and he just | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
answered publicly. The issue now is we hear from Jonathan that an | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
appeal will be lodged this afternoon. There's huge public | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
interest in this case. It would be in the public interest if this | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
appeal for expedited, so we get an answer through the proper judicial | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
mechanism as quickly as possible. Was your request of the Attorney | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
General partly motivated by what you felt was dismay in the armed | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
services about what has happened to Sergeant Nightingale? The question | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
has been raised with me by members of the armed forces, whether the | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
public interest test had been properly applied by the service | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
prosecution authority. That is why I sought the Attorney General's | :18:27. | :18:34. | |
advice on that matter. Where are you on this? It's an absolute | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
offence to own or to be in possession of a firearm and not to | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
have it decommissioned. The rules are that you get five years unless | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
there are exceptional circumstances, whether a civilian or member of the | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
armed forces. We have very strong rules in this country because we | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
don't hat -- want to have weapons on the street. The armed forces | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
have always known it's an absolute no-no that to have weapons that you | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
haven't deactivated. I have sympathy for this gentleman but he | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
had a weapon that haven't been deactivated, that he'd moved to | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
several places. He had bullets under his bed. The place he was | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
living in was not secure. Neither the bullets nor the weapon had been | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
deactivated. Are you aware of the special circumstances his lawyer | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
pleaded? I am. I understand he has had difficulty since that marathon | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
but he was still a serving officer, so he was sufficiently sound to be | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
able to be serving in the SAS. Clearly one needs to... In the end, | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
this is a matter for the courts to decide. I have to say I think | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
yesterday you made a grave mistake because you had asked the Attorney | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
General to look again at a case where a decision had already been | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
made. He had pleaded guilty, he'd been convicted, he'd been sentenced. | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
You know as well as I do that since the glorious Revolution, since | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
James the second, there has been a separation between the executive | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
and the courts. If we allow governments to intervene in the | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
courts and say, we don't like that, have another sentence, this guy | :20:04. | :20:11. | |
should be let off, you are undermining our entire system. I | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
think it's posturing. Emily is a lawyer and is sounding exactly like | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
a lawyer. They do get tremendously pompous about protecting the | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
integrity... You did politics at university. What I was seeking from | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
the Attorney General was reassurance on a specific point. | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
Not asking him to review the sentence or conviction or the wider | :20:31. | :20:38. | |
case. I was asking him specifically whether in his view the service | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
interest test had been correctly applied. I did that after talking | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
to a number of people who'd raised issues with the, including taking | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
informal advice from a legally qualified people who thought that | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
that was an interesting question and appropriate question to ask. | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
I'm told on legal advice that the sergeant could be let out of | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
licence, pending the appeal. That of the services prosecution | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
authority should not be allowed to oppose the appeal. And that both of | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
these decisions are under the remit of the Attorney General. Would you | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
support him taking these decisions? On the first point, you talked | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
about him being in a military prison. The sentence he has been | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
given as one of Military Corrective Training. He could have been | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
sentenced to a prison term, which would have been served in a | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
civilian jail. So this is not a prison term. She should he be | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
allowed out on licence? In the normal course of events, after | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
quite a short period in that facility he will be allowed out, | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
initially for days and then for longer periods of time. It is not a | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
prison sentence. I and he's not been dismissed from the services. | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
It is a retraining programme. have to move on. | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
The nation's finances are broken and yet we are spending ever more | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
money and health care to treat avoidable diseases. Our NHS is | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
these -- based on need and not ability to pay. But if you eat too | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
much, smoke, drink and don't exercise, who should pick up the | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
tab when your body fails? Katie Hopkins thinks it's time for more | :22:17. | :22:27. | |
:22:27. | :22:34. | ||
Sit in any doctor's surgery, hospital waiting room, A&E | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
department and there's one thing you can be sure of. Crowds of | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
people. The old, the young, the rich, the poor, all seeking help | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
from the NHS. The National Health Service was created in 1948 to | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
bring free medical treatment for all. 70 years on, times have | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
changed yet the NHS still provides this service. We now live in a | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
country that offers ever greater amounts of toys. These choices | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
include how we live our lives and how we choose to look after a row | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
bodies. With strong emphasis on health education from an early age, | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
we are now better equipped than ever before to make the right | :23:16. | :23:26. | |
:23:26. | :23:34. | ||
choices on food, diet, exercise and Isn't it time we took | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
responsibility for our own actions? Isn't it time we paid a price for | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
the choices we make? The latest figures show a quarter of adults in | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
England are classified as obese. Around three in 10 boys and girls | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
are classified as either overweight or obese - 20 % of people say they | :23:55. | :24:01. | |
take walks of 20 minutes less than once a year or never! As a taxpayer, | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
I do not want to fund NHS treatment for people that refuse to take | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
exercise. If you choose to smoke, why should I help fund your lung | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
cancer treatment? If you choose to overheat, why should I pay for your | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
operations? NHS demand is overwhelming. It is time to limit | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
NHS provision. If you choose to kill yourselves through your own | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
actions, then you opt out of free medical treatment and you should | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
foot the bill for yourself. Frankly, if you don't care about your health | :24:33. | :24:43. | |
:24:43. | :24:46. | ||
or your body, then as a taxpayer Katie Hopkins has no doubt run to | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
the studio in Plymouth. Can you hear me? I can. How would the | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
alternative work? Who would decide who gets treated and who gets | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
turned away? I'd been overwhelmed by e-mails and texts from people | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
saying that it has been far too long that the taxpayer has been | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
supporting people's poor health choices. It is time that people | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
were made accountable for the choices that they make regarding | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
their health. Who would decide who gets that access to health care? | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
It's time we started to add a premium to people. If you choose to | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
eat yourself into obesity, you pay a premium. If you choose to smoke | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
yourself into lung cancer, you pay a premium. But who would decide who | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
is too fat to get free health care or who has smoked too much or drunk | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
too much - he would make the decision? Wherever the funding sits, | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
whether that was PCTs or whether it needs to be done centrally, the | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
funding decisions need to be made in order to make people accountable | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
for the choices they make. At the moment, we are allowing people to | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
take very poor decisions about their health and are expecting the | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
taxpayer to pick up the tab. That cannot continue while we have | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
queues and queues of people on waiting lists that deserve to be | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
treated. Should lifestyles choices affect your access to health care? | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
If there is a clinical basis for it then sometimes, but I think the | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
case that is being made here... If people's lifestyles choices have | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
led to them being in a condition where treatment is not going to | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
work for them or it's going to be higher risk then clearly there is | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
already a sense in which some of those lifestyles choices do affect | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
their health care treatment available. But should people who | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
drink too much and eat too much be forced to pay for it? We have a | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
system where there treatment is free at the point of need. That's a | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
decision we have made. We recognise that the National Health Service, | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
free at the point of need, is one of the cornerstones on which our | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
modern society is built. If you go down this route, where do you stop? | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
What about kids who don't do their homework, they don't get any help | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
with further education later on - where do we start with this | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
process? It is costing an awful lot of money. Do you think it would | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
have an effect if people who were drinking every Saturday night and | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
were a vast burden on all the emergency services, if they were | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
made to pay for their regular trip to the hospital, do you think it | :27:19. | :27:26. | |
would stop them drinking? Before I answer this, I declare an interest | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
in this. The point is, if you start saying, if you've eaten too much, | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
drunk too much or smoked too much, you should pay more for the | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
National Health Service, then how about if you have a wonky Jean and | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
nevertheless insist on having a child who the chances are we'll | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
have some sort of disability - should you pay more then? What if | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
you are jumping off cliffs and a bit of rubber - should you be | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
paying more then? In the end, the great benefit of the NHS is we are | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
all in it together and we pay equally and all get the benefit of | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
it. It's one of the great things about being British. Katie, you are | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
running every day to stave off that obesity. Should I pay for your | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
arthritis treatment later on? we are all in it together. We are | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
not all in it together. People who eat healthily are contributing to | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
their own personal health care. What about skiers and people who go | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
horse riding? They are very dangerous activities and cost a | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
fortune if you break your neck. can pick those examples but I'm | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
talking about people we district nurses are having to spend time | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
going into their homes because people can't get out of their homes | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
because of their obesity. Ambulances that cost �120,000 just | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
to move someone that is severely obese. We have to take action and | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
we have to stop people who are investing in their health from | :28:46. | :28:52. | |
queueing behind people who really don't care. We have no more time. | :28:52. | :29:02. | |
:29:02. | :29:11. | ||
The Guess The Year and so, that's Thank you to all of our guests | :29:11. | :29:18. | |
today. The news is starting over on BBC One. I will be back tomorrow at | :29:18. | :29:24. |