06/03/2013 Daily Politics

Morning, folks, welcome to the Daily Morning, folks, welcome to the Daily

Politics. The Chancellor loses his Politics. The Chancellor loses his

Politics. The Chancellor loses his Politics. The Chancellor loses his

battle in Brussels against a cap on battle in Brussels against a cap on

battle in Brussels against a cap on bankers' bonuses. The European Union

bankers' bonuses. The European Union bankers' bonuses. The European Union

bankers' bonuses. The European Union will tell the City how they should

will tell the City how they should reward their staff.

reward their staff. reward their staff.

reward their staff. "They say cut back, we say fight

"They say cut back, we say fight "They say cut back, we say fight

back" - the National union of back" - the National union of

back" - the National union of ministers is in full voice, railing

ministers is in full voice, railing ministers is in full voice, railing

against threatened cuts to their against threatened cuts to their

against threatened cuts to their departments, but who will prevail in

Cabinet? Cabinet?

Cabinet? Cabinet?

Don't keep calm and carry on - the Don't keep calm and carry on - the

Don't keep calm and carry on - the work and pensions secretary admits

work and pensions secretary admits work and pensions secretary admits

that the benefits system is in that the benefits system is in

that the benefits system is in crisis over the expected surge in

crisis over the expected surge in immigrants from Bulgaria and

Romania. Romania.

Romania. And they did integrate to listing

And they did integrate to listing And they did integrate to listing

And they did integrate to listing for Preston bus station? We will ask

for Preston bus station? We will ask for Preston bus station? We will ask

for Preston bus station? We will ask the man who can save it from the

wrecker's ball. wrecker's ball.

wrecker's ball. wrecker's ball.

All that in the next 90 minutes of All that in the next 90 minutes of

All that in the next 90 minutes of public service podcasting at its

public service podcasting at its public service podcasting at its

finest, including, at no extra cost, finest, including, at no extra cost,

finest, including, at no extra cost, Prime Minister's Questions, live at

Prime Minister's Questions, live at Prime Minister's Questions, live at

mid-day, of course. Joining us, mid-day, of course. Joining us,

mid-day, of course. Joining us, culture Minister Ed Vaizey and a

culture Minister Ed Vaizey and a culture Minister Ed Vaizey and a

woman who has been making the woman who has been making the

woman who has been making the running on the food contamination

running on the food contamination running on the food contamination

running on the food contamination scandal, never one to look a gift

scandal, never one to look a gift scandal, never one to look a gift

scandal, never one to look a gift horse in the mouth. It is shadow

horse in the mouth. It is shadow environment secretary, Mary Creagh.

environment secretary, Mary Creagh. environment secretary, Mary Creagh.

First this morning, the Chancellor First this morning, the Chancellor

First this morning, the Chancellor First this morning, the Chancellor

First this morning, the Chancellor has not made a hue and cry about his

has not made a hue and cry about his has not made a hue and cry about his

opposition to a cap on anchors' opposition to a cap on anchors'

opposition to a cap on anchors' bonuses, because it is not exactly

bonuses, because it is not exactly bonuses, because it is not exactly

eight pillar rallying cry. But he eight pillar rallying cry. But he

eight pillar rallying cry. But he did go to Brussels yesterday hoping

did go to Brussels yesterday hoping did go to Brussels yesterday hoping

did go to Brussels yesterday hoping to win concessions from the EU. He

to win concessions from the EU. He to win concessions from the EU. He

came back pretty much empty handed, came back pretty much empty handed,

came back pretty much empty handed, came back pretty much empty handed,

came back pretty much empty handed, on the right end of a 26 to one

on the right end of a 26 to one on the right end of a 26 to one

on the right end of a 26 to one vote. Bonuses in the City of London

vote. Bonuses in the City of London vote. Bonuses in the City of London

vote. Bonuses in the City of London look like they will be limited to no

look like they will be limited to no look like they will be limited to no

look like they will be limited to no more than the basic salary of the

more than the basic salary of the more than the basic salary of the

banker, although they could be banker, although they could be

banker, although they could be banker, although they could be

double that if you get the approval double that if you get the approval

double that if you get the approval of three quarters of a bank's

of three quarters of a bank's of three quarters of a bank's

shareholders. The Mayor of London, shareholders. The Mayor of London,

shareholders. The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, has given his

Boris Johnson, has given his Boris Johnson, has given his

Boris Johnson, has given his reaction. I wonder what it will be.

reaction. I wonder what it will be. reaction. I wonder what it will be.

reaction. I wonder what it will be. reaction. I wonder what it will be.

I don't think it is the end of the I don't think it is the end of the

I don't think it is the end of the story. We will make sure the

story. We will make sure the story. We will make sure the

negotiations continue and try to negotiations continue and try to

negotiations continue and try to ameliorate the proposal to make sure

ameliorate the proposal to make sure ameliorate the proposal to make sure

ameliorate the proposal to make sure it is not damaging to the interests

it is not damaging to the interests it is not damaging to the interests

it is not damaging to the interests of London. If it were to have the

of London. If it were to have the of London. If it were to have the

effect that they propose, the most effect that they propose, the most

effect that they propose, the most effect that they propose, the most

it could achieve is not so much to it could achieve is not so much to

it could achieve is not so much to damage the interests of the greatest

damage the interests of the greatest damage the interests of the greatest

financial centre in Europe, i.e. financial centre in Europe, i.e.

financial centre in Europe, i.e. London, but the whole of Europe.

London, but the whole of Europe. London, but the whole of Europe.

Ed Vaizey, these are sensible Ed Vaizey, these are sensible

Ed Vaizey, these are sensible proposals that will curb the

proposals that will curb the proposals that will curb the

excesses of bankers' bonuses. excesses of bankers' bonuses.

excesses of bankers' bonuses. the politics of this, it is

the politics of this, it is the politics of this, it is

difficult to defend bankers. I difficult to defend bankers. I

difficult to defend bankers. I remember having to defend the

remember having to defend the remember having to defend the

bonuses at the Royal Bank of bonuses at the Royal Bank of

bonuses at the Royal Bank of Scotland last year. It is not

Scotland last year. It is not Scotland last year. It is not

popular, but George Osborne is doing popular, but George Osborne is doing

popular, but George Osborne is doing popular, but George Osborne is doing

the right thing. The City is an the right thing. The City is an

the right thing. The City is an important part of our economy. But

important part of our economy. But important part of our economy. But

important part of our economy. But he is also pointing out flaws in the

he is also pointing out flaws in the he is also pointing out flaws in the

argument. If you cap bonuses, the argument. If you cap bonuses, the

argument. If you cap bonuses, the way bankers are remunerated will

way bankers are remunerated will simply transferred to their

simply transferred to their simply transferred to their

simply transferred to their salaries. It is easier to claw back

salaries. It is easier to claw back salaries. It is easier to claw back

salaries. It is easier to claw back bonuses when times are tough and we

bonuses when times are tough and we bonuses when times are tough and we

bonuses when times are tough and we feel the City should take a bigger

feel the City should take a bigger feel the City should take a bigger

contribution. Boris Johnson is also contribution. Boris Johnson is also

contribution. Boris Johnson is also contribution. Boris Johnson is also

making a point at the City is making a point at the City is

making a point at the City is important for the UK economy, as

important for the UK economy, as important for the UK economy, as

part of the European single market, part of the European single market,

part of the European single market, part of the European single market,

it is important that Europe also has it is important that Europe also has

it is important that Europe also has a strong financial centre. But he

a strong financial centre. But he a strong financial centre. But he

a strong financial centre. But he lost the argument. He fought for the

lost the argument. He fought for the lost the argument. He fought for the

lost the argument. He fought for the City of London and for Europe. We

City of London and for Europe. We City of London and for Europe. We

don't want business going to America don't want business going to America

don't want business going to America don't want business going to America

and Asia. But he lost the argument and Asia. But he lost the argument

and Asia. But he lost the argument in response to questions about a

in response to questions about a in response to questions about a

legal challenge to the cap. The legal challenge to the cap. The

finance commissioner said, good finance commissioner said, good

finance commissioner said, good finance commissioner said, good

finance commissioner said, good luck. It is game up. And that is as

luck. It is game up. And that is as luck. It is game up. And that is as

luck. It is game up. And that is as a result of having no friends in the

a result of having no friends in the a result of having no friends in the

a result of having no friends in the EU. 26 to one. I think we are

EU. 26 to one. I think we are EU. 26 to one. I think we are

gaining influence in London. The gaining influence in London. The

gaining influence in London. The prime minister has spoken out. I

prime minister has spoken out. I prime minister has spoken out. I

know we will be talking about know we will be talking about

know we will be talking about immigration and the impact on the

immigration and the impact on the immigration and the impact on the

benefit system later will stop benefit system later will stop

benefit system later will stop benefit system later will stop

Germany has now woken up to that Germany has now woken up to that

Germany has now woken up to that Germany has now woken up to that

issue. We have lots of allies in issue. We have lots of allies in

issue. We have lots of allies in Europe. Mary Creagh, what will you

Europe. Mary Creagh, what will you Europe. Mary Creagh, what will you

do to Labour's bankers' bonus tax? do to Labour's bankers' bonus tax?

do to Labour's bankers' bonus tax? do to Labour's bankers' bonus tax?

We still want to have a bankers' We still want to have a bankers'

We still want to have a bankers' bonus tax. It is extraordinary that

bonus tax. It is extraordinary that bonus tax. It is extraordinary that

bonus tax. It is extraordinary that we have a tax cut for people on

we have a tax cut for people on we have a tax cut for people on

incomes of over �1 million. That incomes of over �1 million. That

incomes of over �1 million. That incomes of over �1 million. That

will be a large number of bankers will be a large number of bankers

will be a large number of bankers who have received their bonus this

who have received their bonus this who have received their bonus this

who have received their bonus this year. We want to see that money

year. We want to see that money year. We want to see that money

going into guaranteeing a job for going into guaranteeing a job for

going into guaranteeing a job for going into guaranteeing a job for

every young person who has been out every young person who has been out

every young person who has been out every young person who has been out

every young person who has been out of work for a year. But you will not

of work for a year. But you will not of work for a year. But you will not

of work for a year. But you will not have enough money to spend your --

have enough money to spend your -- have enough money to spend your --

fund your spending commitments. fund your spending commitments.

fund your spending commitments. fund your spending commitments.

will have to look at what levels will have to look at what levels

will have to look at what levels will have to look at what levels

these bonuses come in. But we are these bonuses come in. But we are

these bonuses come in. But we are talking about people earning perhaps

talking about people earning perhaps talking about people earning perhaps

talking about people earning perhaps up to 400 thousand pounds a year,

up to 400 thousand pounds a year, getting potentially double their

getting potentially double their getting potentially double their

salary. These are fantastic sums of salary. These are fantastic sums of

salary. These are fantastic sums of salary. These are fantastic sums of

money. I was in Wakefield last week money. I was in Wakefield last week

money. I was in Wakefield last week and had three people breaking down

and had three people breaking down and had three people breaking down

and had three people breaking down in tears because of the bedroom tax.

in tears because of the bedroom tax. in tears because of the bedroom tax.

These people live in a different These people live in a different

These people live in a different These people live in a different

world to the reality of what people world to the reality of what people

world to the reality of what people world to the reality of what people

who are squeezed our feeling in the who are squeezed our feeling in the

who are squeezed our feeling in the who are squeezed our feeling in the

country. Many of the public will be country. Many of the public will be

country. Many of the public will be country. Many of the public will be

country. Many of the public will be on your side. At let me come back to

on your side. At let me come back to on your side. At let me come back to

the spending commitments of labour. the spending commitments of labour.

the spending commitments of labour. the spending commitments of labour.

You will not be able to fulfil You will not be able to fulfil

You will not be able to fulfil those, because you would get less

those, because you would get less those, because you would get less

those, because you would get less money in power from a bankers' bonus

money in power from a bankers' bonus money in power from a bankers' bonus

money in power from a bankers' bonus tax if they were not getting the

tax if they were not getting the tax if they were not getting the

tax if they were not getting the bonuses. I am not clear on when this

bonuses. I am not clear on when this bonuses. I am not clear on when this

bonuses. I am not clear on when this change comes in. 2014? We will have

change comes in. 2014? We will have change comes in. 2014? We will have

to put that into our spending to put that into our spending

to put that into our spending commitments. We think it is a

commitments. We think it is a commitments. We think it is a

sensible way forward. We have record sensible way forward. We have record

fines from LIBOR fixing, fines from LIBOR fixing,

money-laundering. The anchors have money-laundering. The anchors have

money-laundering. The anchors have not understood the damage they have

not understood the damage they have not understood the damage they have

not understood the damage they have caused to the economy. Ed is right,

caused to the economy. Ed is right, caused to the economy. Ed is right,

caused to the economy. Ed is right, the City of London is an important

the City of London is an important the City of London is an important

global player, but all this talk global player, but all this talk

global player, but all this talk global player, but all this talk

about them moving to New York or about them moving to New York or

about them moving to New York or about them moving to New York or

Switzerland, we had that in 2008 and Switzerland, we had that in 2008 and

Switzerland, we had that in 2008 and Switzerland, we had that in 2008 and

it has not moved -- it has not it has not moved -- it has not

it has not moved -- it has not happened. That has always been the

happened. That has always been the happened. That has always been the

happened. That has always been the line that anchors fall back on, but

line that anchors fall back on, but line that anchors fall back on, but

line that anchors fall back on, but there was not much evidence of a

there was not much evidence of a there was not much evidence of a

mass move -Nancy is. -- financiers. mass move -Nancy is. -- financiers.

mass move -Nancy is. -- financiers. mass move -Nancy is. -- financiers.

Some people did move out, but it is Some people did move out, but it is

Some people did move out, but it is important that you don't continually

important that you don't continually important that you don't continually

attack the City of London. People attack the City of London. People

attack the City of London. People are obviously outraged by what went

are obviously outraged by what went are obviously outraged by what went

are obviously outraged by what went on and the salaries that bankers get

on and the salaries that bankers get on and the salaries that bankers get

paid. But they contribute an paid. But they contribute an

paid. But they contribute an enormous amount in taxes as well,

enormous amount in taxes as well, enormous amount in taxes as well,

enormous amount in taxes as well, and they act as a magnet for

and they act as a magnet for and they act as a magnet for

business. What does George Osborne business. What does George Osborne

business. What does George Osborne business. What does George Osborne

do now? It is going to happen. From do now? It is going to happen. From

do now? It is going to happen. From do now? It is going to happen. From

2014, there will be a cap. 2014, there will be a cap.

2014, there will be a cap. 2014, there will be a cap.

should not be so defeatist. We will should not be so defeatist. We will

should not be so defeatist. We will negotiate with Europe and continue

negotiate with Europe and continue negotiate with Europe and continue

negotiate with Europe and continue to make the case. We have a welfare

to make the case. We have a welfare to make the case. We have a welfare

to make the case. We have a welfare cap but not a bankers' bonus cap,

cap but not a bankers' bonus cap, cap but not a bankers' bonus cap,

that is extraordinary. It is that is extraordinary. It is

that is extraordinary. It is important to make sure we continue

important to make sure we continue important to make sure we continue

important to make sure we continue to see investment in the City of

to see investment in the City of to see investment in the City of

London so that they don't go London so that they don't go

London so that they don't go elsewhere. Mary Creagh, what would

elsewhere. Mary Creagh, what would elsewhere. Mary Creagh, what would

you do if bankers' basic salaries you do if bankers' basic salaries

you do if bankers' basic salaries you do if bankers' basic salaries

shot up? There would be nothing to shot up? There would be nothing to

shot up? There would be nothing to stop that. The bankers' salaries did

stop that. The bankers' salaries did stop that. The bankers' salaries did

stop that. The bankers' salaries did increase. We saw basic pay in the

increase. We saw basic pay in the increase. We saw basic pay in the

City rising. That also contributes City rising. That also contributes

City rising. That also contributes City rising. That also contributes

City rising. That also contributes to the tax take. We need to create a

to the tax take. We need to create a to the tax take. We need to create a

system where the bankers are system where the bankers are

system where the bankers are incentivised. We want to turn these

incentivised. We want to turn these incentivised. We want to turn these

big state-owned banks around. We big state-owned banks around. We

big state-owned banks around. We big state-owned banks around. We

want to get them lending. But when want to get them lending. But when

want to get them lending. But when you are talking about people earning

you are talking about people earning you are talking about people earning

you are talking about people earning half �1 million a year and �1

half �1 million a year and �1 half �1 million a year and �1

million in their bonus, this is million in their bonus, this is

million in their bonus, this is fantasy land for the people I

fantasy land for the people I fantasy land for the people I

represent in Wakefield. Even if they represent in Wakefield. Even if they

represent in Wakefield. Even if they have contributed to turning around a

have contributed to turning around a have contributed to turning around a

back? For example, people who have back? For example, people who have

back? For example, people who have helped earn huge profits for an

helped earn huge profits for an helped earn huge profits for an

individual bank that does then start individual bank that does then start

individual bank that does then start to lend? We have seen losses

to lend? We have seen losses to lend? We have seen losses

reported at Royal Bank of Scotland reported at Royal Bank of Scotland

reported at Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds. We don't see these

and Lloyds. We don't see these and Lloyds. We don't see these

profits, they are still state profits, they are still state

liabilities. The government is liabilities. The government is

liabilities. The government is paying down the deficit the banks

paying down the deficit the banks paying down the deficit the banks

paying down the deficit the banks left us on the backs of the poor,

left us on the backs of the poor, left us on the backs of the poor,

left us on the backs of the poor, and they are going back to Brussels

and they are going back to Brussels and they are going back to Brussels

and they are going back to Brussels to say that a cap on their

to say that a cap on their to say that a cap on their

remuneration is wrong. People will remuneration is wrong. People will

remuneration is wrong. People will find that very strange. You are

find that very strange. You are find that very strange. You are

defending the indefensible? It is an defending the indefensible? It is an

defending the indefensible? It is an defending the indefensible? It is an

emotive issue, but you have to take emotive issue, but you have to take

emotive issue, but you have to take emotive issue, but you have to take

the heat out of this and import -- the heat out of this and import --

the heat out of this and import -- understand that this is a very

understand that this is a very understand that this is a very

important industry. The taxes the important industry. The taxes the

important industry. The taxes the banks generate up paper welfare.

banks generate up paper welfare. banks generate up paper welfare.

banks generate up paper welfare. Labour had a tax on the rich for

Labour had a tax on the rich for Labour had a tax on the rich for

most the entire length of its most the entire length of its

most the entire length of its government. I will not take lessons

government. I will not take lessons government. I will not take lessons

government. I will not take lessons from Labour on how you tax the rich.

from Labour on how you tax the rich. from Labour on how you tax the rich.

from Labour on how you tax the rich. We take much more from a tax on

We take much more from a tax on We take much more from a tax on

bankers' bonuses and labour of the bankers' bonuses and labour of the

bankers' bonuses and labour of the dead. But funding the City is

dead. But funding the City is dead. But funding the City is

important. It generates wealth for important. It generates wealth for

important. It generates wealth for important. It generates wealth for

Europe, and if we continue to attack Europe, and if we continue to attack

Europe, and if we continue to attack the City, the business will go

the City, the business will go the City, the business will go

elsewhere. Allowing people to earn elsewhere. Allowing people to earn

elsewhere. Allowing people to earn elsewhere. Allowing people to earn

half �1 million is not an attack on half �1 million is not an attack on

half �1 million is not an attack on half �1 million is not an attack on

City workers. We are joined now by City workers. We are joined now by

City workers. We are joined now by Allister Heath, editor of City AM.

Allister Heath, editor of City AM. Allister Heath, editor of City AM.

Allister Heath, editor of City AM. What is the reaction in the City to

What is the reaction in the City to What is the reaction in the City to

What is the reaction in the City to be bankers' bonus cap? It will be a

be bankers' bonus cap? It will be a be bankers' bonus cap? It will be a

be bankers' bonus cap? It will be a live cap. That is the main view,

live cap. That is the main view, live cap. That is the main view,

live cap. That is the main view, because it will not bring down pay

because it will not bring down pay because it will not bring down pay

in total. It will change the in total. It will change the

in total. It will change the in total. It will change the

composition of day and move it more composition of day and move it more

composition of day and move it more composition of day and move it more

towards base pay, which will go up, towards base pay, which will go up,

towards base pay, which will go up, and reduce bonuses. That will make

and reduce bonuses. That will make and reduce bonuses. That will make

banks riskier and reduce the banks riskier and reduce the

banks riskier and reduce the connection between people who work

connection between people who work connection between people who work

hard and their reward. At the hard and their reward. At the

hard and their reward. At the moment, banks can reduce their costs

moment, banks can reduce their costs moment, banks can reduce their costs

in downturns by reducing bonuses if in downturns by reducing bonuses if

in downturns by reducing bonuses if in downturns by reducing bonuses if

there is a recession. Under the new there is a recession. Under the new

there is a recession. Under the new system, they would have to fire

system, they would have to fire system, they would have to fire

system, they would have to fire thousands. There is also a lot of

thousands. There is also a lot of thousands. There is also a lot of

thousands. There is also a lot of talk in the City that the cap might

talk in the City that the cap might talk in the City that the cap might

talk in the City that the cap might apply to far more far -- firms than

apply to far more far -- firms than apply to far more far -- firms than

just banks. There is speculation just banks. There is speculation

just banks. There is speculation just banks. There is speculation

that it might apply to 2700 firms that it might apply to 2700 firms

that it might apply to 2700 firms which are currently covered by FSA

which are currently covered by FSA which are currently covered by FSA

compensation rules full top this is compensation rules full top this is

compensation rules full top this is a far-reaching change and one which

a far-reaching change and one which a far-reaching change and one which

will not achieve its impending -- will not achieve its impending --

will not achieve its impending -- intended aim to make the system

intended aim to make the system intended aim to make the system

fairer will stop instead, it will fairer will stop instead, it will

fairer will stop instead, it will make the system riskier and risk

make the system riskier and risk make the system riskier and risk

driving business out of London. If driving business out of London. If

driving business out of London. If driving business out of London. If

you are a global firm, you have an you are a global firm, you have an

you are a global firm, you have an incentive to move to locations like

incentive to move to locations like incentive to move to locations like

incentive to move to locations like New York. If you are based in the

New York. If you are based in the New York. If you are based in the

European Union, you have an European Union, you have an

European Union, you have an incentive to move your entire firm

incentive to move your entire firm incentive to move your entire firm

incentive to move your entire firm outside full up there are a lot of

outside full up there are a lot of disadvantages. Ultimately, it will

disadvantages. Ultimately, it will disadvantages. Ultimately, it will

disadvantages. Ultimately, it will not bring down pay and will make pay

not bring down pay and will make pay not bring down pay and will make pay

riskier. At the moment, bonuses are riskier. At the moment, bonuses are

riskier. At the moment, bonuses are almost always deferred and partly

almost always deferred and partly almost always deferred and partly

almost always deferred and partly paid in equity and so on. With a

paid in equity and so on. With a paid in equity and so on. With a

cap, cash will be paid immediately, cap, cash will be paid immediately,

cap, cash will be paid immediately, which means all these attempts to

which means all these attempts to which means all these attempts to

try underlying performance with pay try underlying performance with pay

will be dilutive. will be dilutive.

will be dilutive. The prime minister has launched a

The prime minister has launched a charm offensive with his

charm offensive with his backbenchers after the humiliation

backbenchers after the humiliation backbenchers after the humiliation

of taking third place in last of taking third place in last

of taking third place in last week's Eastleigh by-election. It is

week's Eastleigh by-election. It is week's Eastleigh by-election. It is

drawn and chicken sandwiches at drawn and chicken sandwiches at

drawn and chicken sandwiches at number ten, with no horsemeat. David

number ten, with no horsemeat. David number ten, with no horsemeat. David

Cameron himself has been doing Cameron himself has been doing

Cameron himself has been doing impressions of William Hague. But it

impressions of William Hague. But it impressions of William Hague. But it

has not just been backbenchers has not just been backbenchers

has not just been backbenchers sounding off. Ministers are also

sounding off. Ministers are also sounding off. Ministers are also

lobbying ahead of this summer's lobbying ahead of this summer's

lobbying ahead of this summer's spending review. It is providing an

spending review. It is providing an interesting spec to call.

interesting spec to call. interesting spec to call.

interesting spec to call. They call them the National union of

They call them the National union of They call them the National union of

ministers, saying no to further cuts ministers, saying no to further cuts

ministers, saying no to further cuts in their departmental budgets in the

in their departmental budgets in the in their departmental budgets in the

next standing round which is due next standing round which is due

next standing round which is due this summer. George Osborne is said

this summer. George Osborne is said this summer. George Osborne is said

this summer. George Osborne is said to want �10 billion of further cuts

to want �10 billion of further cuts to want �10 billion of further cuts

in 2015. The ministers say they in 2015. The ministers say they

in 2015. The ministers say they can't do it. The most outspoken

can't do it. The most outspoken can't do it. The most outspoken

can't do it. The most outspoken member is Philip Hammond, who told a

member is Philip Hammond, who told a newspaper that his defence

newspaper that his defence newspaper that his defence

Department can't take any more cuts Department can't take any more cuts

Department can't take any more cuts without a significant impact on

without a significant impact on without a significant impact on

military capability. Then there is military capability. Then there is

military capability. Then there is Theresa May. She is already trying

Theresa May. She is already trying Theresa May. She is already trying

Theresa May. She is already trying to cut the Home Office budget by

to cut the Home Office budget by to cut the Home Office budget by

23%. She has faced discontent from 23%. She has faced discontent from

23%. She has faced discontent from 23%. She has faced discontent from

the police and is reported to be the police and is reported to be

the police and is reported to be opposing further cuts. Eric Pickles

opposing further cuts. Eric Pickles opposing further cuts. Eric Pickles

at communities and local government at communities and local government

at communities and local government at communities and local government

is also said to be furious about is also said to be furious about

is also said to be furious about threatened cuts to his budget. And

threatened cuts to his budget. And threatened cuts to his budget. And

there is the shop steward, Vince there is the shop steward, Vince

there is the shop steward, Vince Cable. He wants more investment in

Cable. He wants more investment in Cable. He wants more investment in

his business defilement, not less. his business defilement, not less.

his business defilement, not less. This wrangling happens at every

This wrangling happens at every This wrangling happens at every

spending round, but this year the spending round, but this year the

spending round, but this year the haggling is more public than usual.

haggling is more public than usual. haggling is more public than usual.

Let's speak to Philip Oppenheim, who Let's speak to Philip Oppenheim, who

Let's speak to Philip Oppenheim, who Let's speak to Philip Oppenheim, who

as a Treasury minister has in all as a Treasury minister has in all

as a Treasury minister has in all this from the inside. How much

this from the inside. How much this from the inside. How much

pressure is the Treasury put under pressure is the Treasury put under

pressure is the Treasury put under by ministerial colleagues? In a

by ministerial colleagues? In a by ministerial colleagues? In a

normal period of government when normal period of government when

discipline reigns, the lobbying discipline reigns, the lobbying

discipline reigns, the lobbying discipline reigns, the lobbying

tends to be secretary of state to tends to be secretary of state to

tends to be secretary of state to secretary of state or secretary of

secretary of state or secretary of secretary of state or secretary of

state to the chancellor of the state to the chancellor of the

state to the chancellor of the extra. When discipline breaks down,

extra. When discipline breaks down, extra. When discipline breaks down,

extra. When discipline breaks down, which has always gone on, it tends

which has always gone on, it tends which has always gone on, it tends

to be most successful when the to be most successful when the

to be most successful when the minister doing the lobbying has got

minister doing the lobbying has got minister doing the lobbying has got

the public sympathy and has prepared the public sympathy and has prepared

the public sympathy and has prepared the public sympathy and has prepared

the ground by making sure the media the ground by making sure the media

the ground by making sure the media the ground by making sure the media

are well briefed. How do you resist are well briefed. How do you resist

are well briefed. How do you resist are well briefed. How do you resist

over chores? It depends. If there is over chores? It depends. If there is

over chores? It depends. If there is over chores? It depends. If there is

over chores? It depends. If there is a head of steam behind it, it can be

a head of steam behind it, it can be a head of steam behind it, it can be

difficult to resist, especially when difficult to resist, especially when

difficult to resist, especially when the government is relatively weak,

the government is relatively weak, the government is relatively weak,

the government is relatively weak, the government is relatively weak,

as it was in 1997 when I was a as it was in 1997 when I was a

as it was in 1997 when I was a Treasury minister. But it is not

Treasury minister. But it is not Treasury minister. But it is not

just ministry to ministry briefing. just ministry to ministry briefing.

There are also industry There are also industry

There are also industry representatives, and there and there

representatives, and there and there representatives, and there and there

is a more insidious briefing where is a more insidious briefing where

the financial services industry the financial services industry

the financial services industry the financial services industry

tends to get its way at budget time. tends to get its way at budget time.

tends to get its way at budget time. tends to get its way at budget time.

His ring fencing of good idea? His ring fencing of good idea?

His ring fencing of good idea? His ring fencing of good idea?

can be, but it is ethical to can be, but it is ethical to

can be, but it is ethical to enforce. What about Philip Hammond

enforce. What about Philip Hammond enforce. What about Philip Hammond

and Theresa May's chances? Philip and Theresa May's chances? Philip

and Theresa May's chances? Philip Hammond probably has a better case,

Hammond probably has a better case, Hammond probably has a better case,

partly because the public are partly because the public are

partly because the public are partly because the public are

sympathetic to his cause and he has sympathetic to his cause and he has

sympathetic to his cause and he has prepared the ground with the media.

prepared the ground with the media. prepared the ground with the media.

So Theresa May can forget her So Theresa May can forget her

So Theresa May can forget her chances? Don't take my word for

chances? Don't take my word for chances? Don't take my word for

We are joined by Stephen Williams We are joined by Stephen Williams

We are joined by Stephen Williams who has been observing all this.

who has been observing all this. cutting expenditure so far. We are

cutting expenditure so far. We are cutting expenditure so far. We are

looking for the next round. What looking for the next round. What

looking for the next round. What comes next in order to balance our

comes next in order to balance our comes next in order to balance our

books. The problem is we have books. The problem is we have

protected the National Health protected the National Health

protected the National Health Service and education which is two

Service and education which is two Service and education which is two

huge departments which means other huge departments which means other

huge departments which means other departments have taken cuts and I

departments have taken cuts and I can understand why Cabinet

can understand why Cabinet can understand why Cabinet

Ministers in those departments are Ministers in those departments are

Ministers in those departments are are fretting about what is coming

are fretting about what is coming down the line.

down the line. down the line.

down the line. When I spoke to Vince Cable, he

When I spoke to Vince Cable, he When I spoke to Vince Cable, he

didn't seem keen on the ring- didn't seem keen on the ring-

didn't seem keen on the ring- fencing. What about you? The way

fencing. What about you? The way fencing. What about you? The way

the Government sets its budget and the Government sets its budget and

the Government sets its budget and the Government sets its budget and

sets its taxes would be peculiar to sets its taxes would be peculiar to

sets its taxes would be peculiar to most people who worked in business

most people who worked in business most people who worked in business

which is the background I had which is the background I had

which is the background I had which is the background I had

before I became an MP. You should before I became an MP. You should

before I became an MP. You should before I became an MP. You should

start from the basics and say what start from the basics and say what

start from the basics and say what start from the basics and say what

does the Government need to do? We does the Government need to do? We

does the Government need to do? We need to balance the nation's books.

need to balance the nation's books. need to balance the nation's books.

Maybe have a five year Budget, Maybe have a five year Budget,

Maybe have a five year Budget, across Government and then have

across Government and then have annual negotiations within that

annual negotiations within that annual negotiations within that

overall picture. What are you man overall picture. What are you man

overall picture. What are you man ufrg for? -- manoeuvring for?

ufrg for? -- manoeuvring for? ufrg for? -- manoeuvring for?

we make these decisions, that we we make these decisions, that we

we make these decisions, that we don't balance the books on the

don't balance the books on the don't balance the books on the

don't balance the books on the backs of the poor, that's why we

backs of the poor, that's why we backs of the poor, that's why we

have resisted further demands for have resisted further demands for

have resisted further demands for welfare cuts from our coalition

welfare cuts from our coalition welfare cuts from our coalition

partners and certainly, we will not partners and certainly, we will not

partners and certainly, we will not agree to further welfare cuts

agree to further welfare cuts agree to further welfare cuts

agree to further welfare cuts unless there are more taxes on the

unless there are more taxes on the unless there are more taxes on the

wealthiest in society. We are wealthiest in society. We are

wealthiest in society. We are wealthiest in society. We are

pushing for the the mansion tax and pushing for the the mansion tax and

pushing for the the mansion tax and will not allow cutting housing

will not allow cutting housing will not allow cutting housing

will not allow cutting housing benefit for the under 25s which is

benefit for the under 25s which is benefit for the under 25s which is

an idea some coalition colleagues an idea some coalition colleagues

are keen on. are keen on.

are keen on. If the Conservatives agreed to some

If the Conservatives agreed to some If the Conservatives agreed to some

If the Conservatives agreed to some extra tax or levy on The Well off,

extra tax or levy on The Well off, extra tax or levy on The Well off,

what welfare cuts would you agree what welfare cuts would you agree

what welfare cuts would you agree what welfare cuts would you agree

to? We can open negotiations on how to? We can open negotiations on how

to? We can open negotiations on how to? We can open negotiations on how

we can reform the welfare budget. I we can reform the welfare budget. I

we can reform the welfare budget. I thought you should look at the

thought you should look at the thought you should look at the

thought you should look at the welfare Budget in terms of what it

welfare Budget in terms of what it welfare Budget in terms of what it

is designed to achieve. You should is designed to achieve. You should

is designed to achieve. You should look at is the welfare budget

look at is the welfare budget look at is the welfare budget

working? What's it doing to the working? What's it doing to the

working? What's it doing to the housing market? You should look at

housing market? You should look at housing market? You should look at

housing benefits and changes from housing benefits and changes from

housing benefits and changes from that, rather than trimming the

that, rather than trimming the that, rather than trimming the

budget and then worrying about the budget and then worrying about the

budget and then worrying about the things that result from that and

things that result from that and picking up the pieces.

picking up the pieces. picking up the pieces.

picking up the pieces. I am still not quite clear on what

I am still not quite clear on what I am still not quite clear on what

I am still not quite clear on what you would agree to. How does it

you would agree to. How does it you would agree to. How does it

you would agree to. How does it help the poor if you put extra tax

help the poor if you put extra tax help the poor if you put extra tax

help the poor if you put extra tax on the rich and cut the benefits of

on the rich and cut the benefits of on the rich and cut the benefits of

on the rich and cut the benefits of the poor? What I said our starting

the poor? What I said our starting the poor? What I said our starting

the poor? What I said our starting point as a Government should not be

point as a Government should not be point as a Government should not be

point as a Government should not be that we are going to balance the

that we are going to balance the that we are going to balance the

nation's books by making the nation's books by making the

nation's books by making the poorest in society pay a

poorest in society pay a poorest in society pay a

disproportionate share of the cost disproportionate share of the cost

disproportionate share of the cost of balancing the books. We should

of balancing the books. We should of balancing the books. We should

start off with the rich nest start off with the rich nest

start off with the rich nest society. Those with the broadest

society. Those with the broadest society. Those with the broadest

society. Those with the broadest shoulders. Then you will go and get

shoulders. Then you will go and get shoulders. Then you will go and get

some from the poor, correct? Perhaps so.

Perhaps so. Perhaps so.

I don't understand the logic of I don't understand the logic of

I don't understand the logic of I don't understand the logic of

that. It is all right to hurt the that. It is all right to hurt the

that. It is all right to hurt the poor as long as you are hurting the

poor as long as you are hurting the poor as long as you are hurting the

rich? Well, that's your position? rich? Well, that's your position?

rich? Well, that's your position? rich? Well, that's your position?

It is never all right to hurt the It is never all right to hurt the

It is never all right to hurt the poor, but there is scope for

poor, but there is scope for poor, but there is scope for

further reform of the welfare further reform of the welfare

further reform of the welfare budget. We have made changes

budget. We have made changes budget. We have made changes

budget. We have made changes already and they need to be bedded

already and they need to be bedded already and they need to be bedded

already and they need to be bedded in. There are things we could, a

in. There are things we could, a in. There are things we could, a

levy on properties over �1 million levy on properties over �1 million

levy on properties over �1 million is a good place to start.

is a good place to start. is a good place to start.

is a good place to start. I don't think we support a mansion

I don't think we support a mansion I don't think we support a mansion

I don't think we support a mansion tax. I don't think it was in the

tax. I don't think it was in the tax. I don't think it was in the

coalition agreement that we were coalition agreement that we were

coalition agreement that we were coalition agreement that we were

going to have a mansion tax. If going to have a mansion tax. If

going to have a mansion tax. If going to have a mansion tax. If

they are going to put forward a new they are going to put forward a new

they are going to put forward a new policy for the next coalition.

policy for the next coalition. policy for the next coalition.

policy for the next coalition. Where will you get the cuts from?

Where will you get the cuts from? Where will you get the cuts from?

Where will you get the cuts from? Where will you get the cuts from?

You look at DCMS and you look at a You look at DCMS and you look at a

You look at DCMS and you look at a model department which reduced its

model department which reduced its model department which reduced its

model department which reduced its spending and we are moving out of

spending and we are moving out of the enormous building.

the enormous building. the enormous building.

This is the Department of Culture, This is the Department of Culture,

media and sport. media and sport.

media and sport. I didn't think it needed an

I didn't think it needed an introduction. We reduced our

overheads. overheads.

overheads. overheads.

I think Francis Maude is the untold I think Francis Maude is the untold

I think Francis Maude is the untold story. When we came into Government,

story. When we came into Government, story. When we came into Government,

story. When we came into Government, we didn't know who our top ten

we didn't know who our top ten we didn't know who our top ten

suppliers were. Francis saved �5 suppliers were. Francis saved �5

suppliers were. Francis saved �5 billion without breaking a sweat.

billion without breaking a sweat. billion without breaking a sweat.

Not in your department. What's your Not in your department. What's your

Not in your department. What's your department's budget? It is a few

billion quid. billion quid.

billion quid. billion quid.

That's a saving of a couple of That's a saving of a couple of

billion straight awasmt nobody billion straight awasmt nobody

billion straight awasmt nobody would -- away. Nobody would notice

would -- away. Nobody would notice would -- away. Nobody would notice

if your department disappeared? if your department disappeared?

if your department disappeared? minute you read a leaflet where

minute you read a leaflet where minute you read a leaflet where

minute you read a leaflet where somebody is setting out how we will

somebody is setting out how we will somebody is setting out how we will

save money. Clearly, you are save money. Clearly, you are

save money. Clearly, you are dealing with someone who is

economically illiterate. economically illiterate.

economically illiterate. A Government minister is calling

A Government minister is calling A Government minister is calling

the Institute of Economic affairs the Institute of Economic affairs

the Institute of Economic affairs illiterate For a few hundred

illiterate For a few hundred illiterate For a few hundred

million you get the world's best million you get the world's best

million you get the world's best museums and the world's best arts

museums and the world's best arts museums and the world's best arts

organisations. You get for a tiny organisations. You get for a tiny

department, delivering a world- department, delivering a world-

class Olympics delivering broadband class Olympics delivering broadband

class Olympics delivering broadband class Olympics delivering broadband

class Olympics delivering broadband though?. Is it thanks to you that I

though?. Is it thanks to you that I though?. Is it thanks to you that I

though?. Is it thanks to you that I have got broadband? Is it thanks to

have got broadband? Is it thanks to have got broadband? Is it thanks to

have got broadband? Is it thanks to you that I have got broadband? I

you that I have got broadband? I you that I have got broadband? I

you that I have got broadband? I thought it was thanks to Al Gore.

thought it was thanks to Al Gore. thought it was thanks to Al Gore.

thought it was thanks to Al Gore. He did invent the internet, you are

right. right.

right. right.

I think it is interesting we have I think it is interesting we have

I think it is interesting we have got Theresa May and Philip Hammond,

got Theresa May and Philip Hammond, got Theresa May and Philip Hammond,

got Theresa May and Philip Hammond, David Cameron seems to have a kind

David Cameron seems to have a kind of leadership, pretend leadership

of leadership, pretend leadership of leadership, pretend leadership

challenge almost every other week. challenge almost every other week.

challenge almost every other week. There is a suggestion they maybe

There is a suggestion they maybe working working together.

working working together. working working together.

working working together. Who? Theresa May and Philip Ham ond.

Who? Theresa May and Philip Ham ond. Who? Theresa May and Philip Ham ond.

Who? Theresa May and Philip Ham ond. Who -- -- Hammond. Who knows. Well,

Who -- -- Hammond. Who knows. Well, Who -- -- Hammond. Who knows. Well,

Who -- -- Hammond. Who knows. Well, what we have said is we have got,

what we have said is we have got, what we have said is we have got,

what we have said is we have got, you know, I mean George Osborne has

you know, I mean George Osborne has you know, I mean George Osborne has

you know, I mean George Osborne has got a Budget coming up and if it

got a Budget coming up and if it got a Budget coming up and if it

got a Budget coming up and if it goes off OK, there will be sobs of

goes off OK, there will be sobs of goes off OK, there will be sobs of

relief across Government. Given the relief across Government. Given the

relief across Government. Given the leaks from the Liberal Democrats of

leaks from the Liberal Democrats of leaks from the Liberal Democrats of

leaks from the Liberal Democrats of last year's Budget. It con be any

last year's Budget. It con be any last year's Budget. It con be any

worse, the pasty pasty tax, the worse, the pasty pasty tax, the

worse, the pasty pasty tax, the worse, the pasty pasty tax, the

granny tax. I am having my little granny tax. I am having my little

granny tax. I am having my little granny tax. I am having my little

say which is I think on the big say which is I think on the big

say which is I think on the big issues Ed Miliband is showing a

issues Ed Miliband is showing a mass massive leadership challenge

mass massive leadership challenge mass massive leadership challenge

mass massive leadership challenge to the Government and we will be

to the Government and we will be to the Government and we will be

talking about that after PMQs. talking about that after PMQs.

talking about that after PMQs. talking about that after PMQs.

This isn't about the Budget, is it? This isn't about the Budget, is it?

This isn't about the Budget, is it? This is about the Spending Review.

This is about the Spending Review. This is about the Spending Review.

To mark our viewers cards, my To mark our viewers cards, my

To mark our viewers cards, my understanding is that the current

understanding is that the current understanding is that the current

understanding is that the current spending takes us up to the end of

spending takes us up to the end of spending takes us up to the end of

the fiscal year 2015 and because the fiscal year 2015 and because

the fiscal year 2015 and because the fiscal year 2015 and because

the next year goes into for a month the next year goes into for a month

the next year goes into for a month the next year goes into for a month

or two before, when the election is, or two before, when the election is,

or two before, when the election is, that the Spending Review has to

that the Spending Review has to that the Spending Review has to

that the Spending Review has to look at what spending will be in

look at what spending will be in look at what spending will be in

2015/16. That's all we are talking 2015/16. That's all we are talking

2015/16. That's all we are talking 2015/16. That's all we are talking

about, isn't it? It is not a three about, isn't it? It is not a three

about, isn't it? It is not a three about, isn't it? It is not a three

or a five year Spending Review, it or a five year Spending Review, it

or a five year Spending Review, it or a five year Spending Review, it

is an extra year? We are going to is an extra year? We are going to

is an extra year? We are going to have to agree the spending envelope.

have to agree the spending envelope. have to agree the spending envelope.

have to agree the spending envelope. It will be hard to agree on detail

It will be hard to agree on detail It will be hard to agree on detail

It will be hard to agree on detail because that should be a subject of

debate. debate.

debate. Why don't you roll existing

Why don't you roll existing Why don't you roll existing

spending forward for a month until spending forward for a month until

spending forward for a month until you have an election? Possibly, the

you have an election? Possibly, the Treasury might do that.

Treasury might do that. Treasury might do that.

Treasury might do that. Oh, you have been thinking. I have.

Oh, you have been thinking. I have. Oh, you have been thinking. I have.

Oh, you have been thinking. I have. It is bonkers that we pay some

It is bonkers that we pay some universal benefits to rich

universal benefits to rich universal benefits to rich

pensioners. Why should the Duke of pensioners. Why should the Duke of

pensioners. Why should the Duke of pensioners. Why should the Duke of

bu fort, the richest man in Greater bu fort, the richest man in Greater

bu fort, the richest man in Greater Bristol get the winter fuel

Bristol get the winter fuel Bristol get the winter fuel

allowance? That's the only reason... allowance? That's the only reason...

allowance? That's the only reason... allowance? That's the only reason...

Ed Vaizey The issue that neither of Ed Vaizey The issue that neither of

Ed Vaizey The issue that neither of you, with the economy flat lining,

you, with the economy flat lining, you, with the economy flat lining,

you, with the economy flat lining, neither of you are able to pay down

neither of you are able to pay down neither of you are able to pay down

the debt. You are borrowing more the debt. You are borrowing more

the debt. You are borrowing more than you predicted because whatever

than you predicted because whatever than you predicted because whatever

than you predicted because whatever you have done has not worked. The

you have done has not worked. The you have done has not worked. The

you have done has not worked. The debt is growing and the deficit is

debt is growing and the deficit is debt is growing and the deficit is

increasing and... The deficit is increasing and... The deficit is

increasing and... The deficit is increasing and... The deficit is

not increasing, but the debt is. not increasing, but the debt is.

not increasing, but the debt is. not increasing, but the debt is.

is on track to be at the moment. is on track to be at the moment.

is on track to be at the moment. is on track to be at the moment.

What you are doing is borrowing to What you are doing is borrowing to

What you are doing is borrowing to What you are doing is borrowing to

keep people on benefits and on the keep people on benefits and on the

keep people on benefits and on the keep people on benefits and on the

dole. We want to see borrowing to dole. We want to see borrowing to

dole. We want to see borrowing to dole. We want to see borrowing to

keep people, but it is because of keep people, but it is because of

under employment and part-time under employment and part-time

under employment and part-time employment and people saying they

employment and people saying they employment and people saying they

are self-employed. People will do are self-employed. People will do

are self-employed. People will do anything not to say they are

anything not to say they are anything not to say they are

anything not to say they are unemployed. We have run out of time.

unemployed. We have run out of time. unemployed. We have run out of time.

unemployed. We have run out of time. I am sorry, I know you were, but

I am sorry, I know you were, but I am sorry, I know you were, but

I am sorry, I know you were, but you were a slow starter if I may

say so. say so.

say so. say so.

Thank you. Now Jo, it is time to Thank you. Now Jo, it is time to

get entertaining. Debrett's have get entertaining. Debrett's have

get entertaining. Debrett's have issued new guidelines for those too

issued new guidelines for those too issued new guidelines for those too

issued new guidelines for those too issued new guidelines for those too

biz yu too busy to rustle up a meal, biz yu too busy to rustle up a meal,

biz yu too busy to rustle up a meal, biz yu too busy to rustle up a meal,

it is acceptable to serve them a it is acceptable to serve them a

it is acceptable to serve them a take take keep away -- takeaway.

take take keep away -- takeaway. take take keep away -- takeaway.

take take keep away -- takeaway. We don't have a takeaway for you,

We don't have a takeaway for you, We don't have a takeaway for you,

but we have something for sought but we have something for sought

but we have something for sought after, we have the Daily Politics

mug! mug!

mug! According to Debrett's it should be

According to Debrett's it should be According to Debrett's it should be

According to Debrett's it should be a cup and saucer and we should be

a cup and saucer and we should be a cup and saucer and we should be

holding the handle of the teacup holding the handle of the teacup

holding the handle of the teacup between the thumb and forefinger

between the thumb and forefinger between the thumb and forefinger

and no little finger, Jo. and no little finger, Jo.

and no little finger, Jo. Thank you for that etiquette.

Thank you for that etiquette. Thank you for that etiquette.

Thank you for that etiquette. Someone has to be posh amongst us!

Someone has to be posh amongst us! Someone has to be posh amongst us!

Someone has to be posh amongst us! If you want to get your hands on

If you want to get your hands on If you want to get your hands on

If you want to get your hands on one of the mugs, that is. You have

one of the mugs, that is. You have one of the mugs, that is. You have

to enter our competition. First, to enter our competition. First,

to enter our competition. First, to enter our competition. First,

let's see if you can remember when # I want to rock with you

# I want to rock with you # All night

# All night # All night

# All night # I'm going to rock the night away

# Don't stop me, I'm having such a good time

good time good time

# I'm having a ball # I'm having a ball

# I'm having a ball # Don't stop me now

# Don't stop me now # Don't stop me now

# Don't stop me now # Don't stop me now

# # If you want to have a good time, # # If you want to have a good time,

# # If you want to have a good time, just give me a call

just give me a call just give me a call

# Don't stop me now # Don't stop me now

# Don't stop me now # Don't stop me now

# Don't stop me now # Don't stop me now

# Don't stop me now # I'm having a good time, I don't

# I'm having a good time, I don't # I'm having a good time, I don't

I think that over the longer term I think that over the longer term

I think that over the longer term I think that over the longer term

this will be seen to have been a And to be in with a chance of

And to be in with a chance of And to be in with a chance of

winning a Daily Politics mug, send winning a Daily Politics mug, send

winning a Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz

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The Year on our website. The Year on our website.

The Year on our website. The Year on our website.

Nobody will do that! Nobody will do Nobody will do that! Nobody will do

that! People might. that! People might.

We have read them. We have read them.

We have read them. We have read them.

It is coming up to midday. Let's It is coming up to midday. Let's

It is coming up to midday. Let's It is coming up to midday. Let's

look at Big Ben. Who needs to look at Big Ben. Who needs to

look at Big Ben. Who needs to consult the small print for that?

consult the small print for that? consult the small print for that?

consult the small print for that? When we see that clock, we see that

When we see that clock, we see that When we see that clock, we see that

Prime Minister's Questions is on Prime Minister's Questions is on

Prime Minister's Questions is on Prime Minister's Questions is on

its way and it means that Nick its way and it means that Nick

its way and it means that Nick Robinson is not travelling with the

Robinson is not travelling with the Robinson is not travelling with the

Robinson is not travelling with the the Prime Minister and is in the

the Prime Minister and is in the the Prime Minister and is in the

the Prime Minister and is in the studio. I I thought I would read

studio. I I thought I would read studio. I I thought I would read

those terms and conditions. those terms and conditions.

those terms and conditions. viewing figures are doing well.

viewing figures are doing well. viewing figures are doing well.

viewing figures are doing well. They are up. Record viewers. We are

They are up. Record viewers. We are They are up. Record viewers. We are

They are up. Record viewers. We are up to three, I think! The first

up to three, I think! The first up to three, I think! The first

PMQs after Eastleigh, how does Mr PMQs after Eastleigh, how does Mr

PMQs after Eastleigh, how does Mr PMQs after Eastleigh, how does Mr

Miliband play it? It is the first Miliband play it? It is the first

Miliband play it? It is the first Miliband play it? It is the first

after Eastleigh, but we are in the after Eastleigh, but we are in the

after Eastleigh, but we are in the after Eastleigh, but we are in the

run-up to the to the Budget. With run-up to the to the Budget. With

run-up to the to the Budget. With this row going on about bankers

this row going on about bankers bonuses, that's a possibility

bonuses, that's a possibility bonuses, that's a possibility

because what we have seen Ed because what we have seen Ed

because what we have seen Ed because what we have seen Ed

Miliband do week in and week out is Miliband do week in and week out is

Miliband do week in and week out is Miliband do week in and week out is

try and compare what he says is a try and compare what he says is a

try and compare what he says is a give away to millionaires with

give away to millionaires with give away to millionaires with

whatever is in the news, things whatever is in the news, things

whatever is in the news, things like what Labour call the bedroom

like what Labour call the bedroom like what Labour call the bedroom

tax and the Government don't call tax and the Government don't call

tax and the Government don't call tax and the Government don't call

it that. He will look for thor it that. He will look for thor

it that. He will look for thor theme -- another theme about whose

theme -- another theme about whose theme -- another theme about whose

theme -- another theme about whose side are you really on? The the NHS

side are you really on? The the NHS side are you really on? The the NHS

has been around, but that's my has been around, but that's my

has been around, but that's my has been around, but that's my

instinct that he wants to invest in instinct that he wants to invest in

instinct that he wants to invest in instinct that he wants to invest in

a story about the economy ahead of a story about the economy ahead of

a story about the economy ahead of a story about the economy ahead of

the Budget and ahead also of the the Budget and ahead also of the

the Budget and ahead also of the the Budget and ahead also of the

day in which the cut in the top day in which the cut in the top

day in which the cut in the top day in which the cut in the top

rate of tax comes on 1st April. rate of tax comes on 1st April.

rate of tax comes on 1st April. rate of tax comes on 1st April.

rate of tax comes on 1st April. It goes down from 50 to 45 We have

It goes down from 50 to 45 We have It goes down from 50 to 45 We have

been talking about it, but it been talking about it, but it

been talking about it, but it hasn't happened! It happens then.

hasn't happened! It happens then. hasn't happened! It happens then.

hasn't happened! It happens then. must check what I have been paying!

LAUGHTER LAUGHTER

Yes, Andrew. Yes. LAUGHTER

LAUGHTER LAUGHTER

LAUGHTER It is the same in the Cayman

Islands! Islands!

It stayed the same. It stayed the same.

It stayed the same. It stayed the same.

I think that's where I last saw you. I think that's where I last saw you.

I think that's where I last saw you. We have been surprised that the

We have been surprised that the internal Tory reaction after

internal Tory reaction after internal Tory reaction after

Eastleigh wasn't that volcanic, it Eastleigh wasn't that volcanic, it

Eastleigh wasn't that volcanic, it Eastleigh wasn't that volcanic, it

was muted, but I was told over the was muted, but I was told over the

was muted, but I was told over the weekend that's because they are

weekend that's because they are weekend that's because they are

waiting to see what the Chancellor waiting to see what the Chancellor

waiting to see what the Chancellor waiting to see what the Chancellor

may may deliver in the Budget and may may deliver in the Budget and

may may deliver in the Budget and if the Budget Budget disappoints...

if the Budget Budget disappoints... if the Budget Budget disappoints...

if the Budget Budget disappoints... You can go into the House of

You can go into the House of You can go into the House of

Commons without some Tory MPs who Commons without some Tory MPs who

are disaffected with Cameron are disaffected with Cameron

are disaffected with Cameron are disaffected with Cameron

because they had a job and lost it because they had a job and lost it

because they had a job and lost it because of the coalition and never

because of the coalition and never because of the coalition and never

because of the coalition and never got a job because the coalition and

got a job because the coalition and got a job because the coalition and

got a job because the coalition and look at the polls of the economy.

look at the polls of the economy. look at the polls of the economy.

These people will sit round and These people will sit round and

These people will sit round and These people will sit round and

tell you why next week is the tell you why next week is the

tell you why next week is the tell you why next week is the

moment there will be a revolt. I am moment there will be a revolt. I am

moment there will be a revolt. I am a sceptic about this. The

a sceptic about this. The a sceptic about this. The

suggestion that a moment will come suggestion that a moment will come

suggestion that a moment will come at which they either remove the

at which they either remove the at which they either remove the

at which they either remove the party leader and I have said what

party leader and I have said what party leader and I have said what

party leader and I have said what do you think Nick Clegg will sit

do you think Nick Clegg will sit do you think Nick Clegg will sit

do you think Nick Clegg will sit there while you have an eight week

there while you have an eight week there while you have an eight week

there while you have an eight week debate about who should be the next

debate about who should be the next debate about who should be the next

Prime Minister and you think that Prime Minister and you think that

Prime Minister and you think that Prime Minister and you think that

Nick Clegg will sit there and allow Nick Clegg will sit there and allow

Nick Clegg will sit there and allow you, the Conservative Party, to

you, the Conservative Party, to you, the Conservative Party, to

have an argument argument about who have an argument argument about who

have an argument argument about who have an argument argument about who

your Prime Minister is. It is a your Prime Minister is. It is a

your Prime Minister is. It is a your Prime Minister is. It is a

sign of the level of anger that sign of the level of anger that

sign of the level of anger that normally sensible people will sit

normally sensible people will sit normally sensible people will sit

normally sensible people will sit with you at lengths and talk about

with you at lengths and talk about with you at lengths and talk about

with you at lengths and talk about -- length and talk to you about

-- length and talk to you about -- length and talk to you about

changing their Prime Minister. changing their Prime Minister.

changing their Prime Minister. Come ron leads the Conservatives

Come ron leads the Conservatives Come ron leads the Conservatives

into the next election and secondly, into the next election and secondly,

into the next election and secondly, into the next election and secondly,

if as a result of that election, Mr if as a result of that election, Mr

Miliband forms a majority Miliband forms a majority

Miliband forms a majority Government, Mr Cameron will be gone

Government, Mr Cameron will be gone in 60 seconds.

in 60 seconds. in 60 seconds.

in 60 seconds. in 60 seconds.

I am with you on that and it is I am with you on that and it is

I am with you on that and it is unlikely that George Osborne will

unlikely that George Osborne will unlikely that George Osborne will

not be chancellor by the next not be chancellor by the next

not be chancellor by the next election. It is possible, of course,

election. It is possible, of course, election. It is possible, of course,

something that we can't predict something that we can't predict

something that we can't predict something that we can't predict

will happen, but the plan would be will happen, but the plan would be

will happen, but the plan would be will happen, but the plan would be

he stays and Cameron stays and the he stays and Cameron stays and the

he stays and Cameron stays and the central economic strategy stays and

central economic strategy stays and central economic strategy stays and

is unchanged and the Prime Minister is unchanged and the Prime Minister

is unchanged and the Prime Minister is unchanged and the Prime Minister

has got a big speech on the economy has got a big speech on the economy

has got a big speech on the economy has got a big speech on the economy

tomorrow. It is unusual for him to tomorrow. It is unusual for him to

tomorrow. It is unusual for him to tomorrow. It is unusual for him to

speak about the economy at all at speak about the economy at all at

speak about the economy at all at speak about the economy at all at

length and ahead of the Budget and length and ahead of the Budget and

length and ahead of the Budget and length and ahead of the Budget and

suggests to me he wants if you like suggests to me he wants if you like

suggests to me he wants if you like to insull insulate his chance and

to insull insulate his chance and says we stand together.

says we stand together. says we stand together.

says we stand together. The risk for the Chancellor is that

The risk for the Chancellor is that The risk for the Chancellor is that

The risk for the Chancellor is that he becomes a proxy for Mr Cameron,

he becomes a proxy for Mr Cameron, he becomes a proxy for Mr Cameron,

he becomes a proxy for Mr Cameron, you say say "we better not beat up

you say say "we better not beat up you say say "we better not beat up

you say say "we better not beat up on the leader. So let's get rid of

on the leader. So let's get rid of on the leader. So let's get rid of

Mr Osbourne." Take gay marriage, Mr Osbourne." Take gay marriage,

Mr Osbourne." Take gay marriage, George Osborne is blamed for coming

George Osborne is blamed for coming up with that idea.

up with that idea. up with that idea.

The bedroom tax is ill thought out The bedroom tax is ill thought out

The bedroom tax is ill thought out and unfair. Thousands will have no

and unfair. Thousands will have no and unfair. Thousands will have no

and unfair. Thousands will have no choice but to cut back further on

choice but to cut back further on choice but to cut back further on

food and expenses. Will the prime food and expenses. Will the prime

food and expenses. Will the prime Minister drop this callous policy?

Minister drop this callous policy? Minister drop this callous policy?

Minister drop this callous policy? Let's be clear that this is not a

Let's be clear that this is not a Let's be clear that this is not a

Let's be clear that this is not a tax. Let me explain to the Labour

tax. Let me explain to the Labour tax. Let me explain to the Labour

tax. Let me explain to the Labour Party. A tax is when you earn some

Party. A tax is when you earn some Party. A tax is when you earn some

money, the government takes some of money, the government takes some of

money, the government takes some of money, the government takes some of

that money away from you. After they that money away from you. After they

that money away from you. After they tax. Only Labour could call a

tax. Only Labour could call a tax. Only Labour could call a

benefit reform a tax increase. benefit reform a tax increase.

benefit reform a tax increase. Pensioners are exempt. People with

Pensioners are exempt. People with Pensioners are exempt. People with

disabled children are exempt. People disabled children are exempt. People

disabled children are exempt. People who need round-the-clock care are

who need round-the-clock care are who need round-the-clock care are

exempt. Those categories are all exempt. Those categories are all

exempt. Those categories are all exempt. Those categories are all

exempt, but there is a basic issue exempt, but there is a basic issue

exempt, but there is a basic issue exempt, but there is a basic issue

of fairness. How can it be fair that of fairness. How can it be fair that

of fairness. How can it be fair that people on housing benefit in private

people on housing benefit in private people on housing benefit in private

rented accommodation do not get a rented accommodation do not get a

rented accommodation do not get a spare room subsidy, whereas people

spare room subsidy, whereas people spare room subsidy, whereas people

spare room subsidy, whereas people in social housing do? We are putting

in social housing do? We are putting that right. Figures published

that right. Figures published that right. Figures published

yesterday showed that over the last yesterday showed that over the last

yesterday showed that over the last 20 years, there has been 137%

20 years, there has been 137% 20 years, there has been 137%

increase in the number of deaths increase in the number of deaths

increase in the number of deaths linked to our timers disease. Does

linked to our timers disease. Does linked to our timers disease. Does

the prime minister agreed that to the prime minister agreed that to

the prime minister agreed that to stop this awful condition from

stop this awful condition from stop this awful condition from

affecting more people, we need to affecting more people, we need to

affecting more people, we need to invest more in preventing this

invest more in preventing this invest more in preventing this

disease and in research? Will he disease and in research? Will he

disease and in research? Will he outlined to the house what the

outlined to the house what the outlined to the house what the

government is doing to help support government is doing to help support

government is doing to help support those with dementia and those who

those with dementia and those who those with dementia and those who

those with dementia and those who care for them? This is of concern to

care for them? This is of concern to care for them? This is of concern to

care for them? This is of concern to everyone in this house and in this

everyone in this house and in this everyone in this house and in this

country. No one knows when a country. No one knows when a

country. No one knows when a relative could be afflicted by this

relative could be afflicted by this relative could be afflicted by this

condition. The point she makes is condition. The point she makes is

condition. The point she makes is condition. The point she makes is

right. This is a disease, and we right. This is a disease, and we

right. This is a disease, and we right. This is a disease, and we

should think about it as a disease should think about it as a disease

should think about it as a disease should think about it as a disease

in the wake we try and treat cancer in the wake we try and treat cancer

in the wake we try and treat cancer in the wake we try and treat cancer

or heart disease or strokes. That is or heart disease or strokes. That is

or heart disease or strokes. That is why the government is increasing the

why the government is increasing the why the government is increasing the

money going into medical research so money going into medical research so

money going into medical research so money going into medical research so

that we can try and -- prevent that we can try and -- prevent

that we can try and -- prevent dementia in more cases. But there

dementia in more cases. But there dementia in more cases. But there

dementia in more cases. But there are many things to do in terms of

are many things to do in terms of are many things to do in terms of

improving care in care homes and improving care in care homes and

improving care in care homes and hospitals and making sure we have

hospitals and making sure we have dementia friendly communities so

dementia friendly communities so dementia friendly communities so

dementia friendly communities so that we learn about how to help

that we learn about how to help that we learn about how to help

people with dementia lead productive people with dementia lead productive

people with dementia lead productive people with dementia lead productive

lives. Ed Miliband. I would like to lives. Ed Miliband. I would like to

lives. Ed Miliband. I would like to ask the prime Minister about an

ask the prime Minister about an ask the prime Minister about an

individual case that has been raised individual case that has been raised

individual case that has been raised individual case that has been raised

with me. John works in East London with me. John works in East London

with me. John works in East London and is worried about what is

and is worried about what is and is worried about what is

happening to his living standards. happening to his living standards.

happening to his living standards. happening to his living standards.

His salary is �1 million, and he is His salary is �1 million, and he is

His salary is �1 million, and he is worried that under proposed EU

worried that under proposed EU worried that under proposed EU

regulations, his bonus may be capped regulations, his bonus may be capped

regulations, his bonus may be capped regulations, his bonus may be capped

at just �2 million. Can the prime at just �2 million. Can the prime

at just �2 million. Can the prime at just �2 million. Can the prime

Minister tell us what he will do for Minister tell us what he will do for

Minister tell us what he will do for Minister tell us what he will do for

John? What I would say to John and John? What I would say to John and

John? What I would say to John and John? What I would say to John and

everyone like him is that under this everyone like him is that under this

everyone like him is that under this government, bonuses are one quarter

government, bonuses are one quarter government, bonuses are one quarter

government, bonuses are one quarter government, bonuses are one quarter

of what they were when he was in the of what they were when he was in the

of what they were when he was in the of what they were when he was in the

Treasury. I will take lots of leg is Treasury. I will take lots of leg is

Treasury. I will take lots of leg is Treasury. I will take lots of leg is

from lots of people, but I don't from lots of people, but I don't

from lots of people, but I don't from lots of people, but I don't

have to listen to the croupier in have to listen to the croupier in

have to listen to the croupier in have to listen to the croupier in

the casino when it all went bust. the casino when it all went bust.

the casino when it all went bust. Mister Speaker, I know the prime

Mister Speaker, I know the prime Mister Speaker, I know the prime

Minister doesn't want to deal with Minister doesn't want to deal with

Minister doesn't want to deal with Minister doesn't want to deal with

the fact, but he sent his Chancellor the fact, but he sent his Chancellor

the fact, but he sent his Chancellor to Europe yesterday to argue against

to Europe yesterday to argue against to Europe yesterday to argue against

the bonus tax. He says, presumably the bonus tax. He says, presumably

the bonus tax. He says, presumably the bonus tax. He says, presumably

because he thinks it would be bad because he thinks it would be bad

because he thinks it would be bad because he thinks it would be bad

for the City of London. But who led for the City of London. But who led

for the City of London. But who led the negotiations on the bonus cap?

the negotiations on the bonus cap? the negotiations on the bonus cap?

the negotiations on the bonus cap? It was a Conservative member of the

It was a Conservative member of the It was a Conservative member of the

European Parliament. She said, we European Parliament. She said, we

European Parliament. She said, we European Parliament. She said, we

have managed to produce a deal that have managed to produce a deal that

have managed to produce a deal that will strike the right balance for

will strike the right balance for will strike the right balance for

the majority of bankers who take the majority of bankers who take

the majority of bankers who take responsible decisions. Why are the

responsible decisions. Why are the responsible decisions. Why are the

prime minister and Chancellor the prime minister and Chancellor the

prime minister and Chancellor the prime minister and Chancellor the

only people who think it is a only people who think it is a