07/03/2013 Daily Politics


07/03/2013

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn with the latest political news and interviews. They are joined by immigration minister Mark Harper and former home secretary Alan Johnson.


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Daily Politics. David Cameron wants Daily Politics. David Cameron wants

:00:41.:00:43.

Daily Politics. David Cameron wants Daily Politics. David Cameron wants

:00:43.:00:44.

Daily Politics. David Cameron wants to stick to plan a. He thinks it is

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to stick to plan a. He thinks it is to stick to plan a. He thinks it is

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beginning to work and the economy beginning to work and the economy

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beginning to work and the economy beginning to work and the economy

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will pick up, honest. If only his will pick up, honest. If only his

:00:50.:00:50.

coalition partner, Business coalition partner, Business

:00:50.:00:51.

coalition partner, Business Secretary Vince Cable for the same.

:00:51.:00:52.

Secretary Vince Cable for the same. Secretary Vince Cable for the same.

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Secretary Vince Cable for the same. He appears to be demanding plan B

:00:54.:00:57.

He appears to be demanding plan B He appears to be demanding plan B

:00:57.:00:57.

Ashmore investment in industry, paid Ashmore investment in industry, paid

:00:57.:01:01.

for by more borrowing. for by more borrowing.

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for by more borrowing. Labour try to seize the immigration

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Labour try to seize the immigration Labour try to seize the immigration

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initiative. We have trawled the Home initiative. We have trawled the Home

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initiative. We have trawled the Home Secretary's speech for a major

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Secretary's speech for a major Secretary's speech for a major

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announcement, but we have yet to announcement, but we have yet to

:01:07.:01:09.

find anything new. find anything new.

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find anything new. It is a bread-and-butter issue and

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It is a bread-and-butter issue and It is a bread-and-butter issue and

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all the political parties appear to all the political parties appear to

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all the political parties appear to all the political parties appear to

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want a slice of the action. We will want a slice of the action. We will

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want a slice of the action. We will want a slice of the action. We will

:01:17.:01:20.

be talking about the 10p tax rate. be talking about the 10p tax rate.

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be talking about the 10p tax rate. And forget London, Paris, Milan. If

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And forget London, Paris, Milan. If And forget London, Paris, Milan. If

:01:23.:01:23.

And forget London, Paris, Milan. If you want a glimpse of next season's

:01:24.:01:25.

you want a glimpse of next season's you want a glimpse of next season's

:01:25.:01:26.

coat could sure, come to coat could sure, come to

:01:26.:01:27.

coat could sure, come to Westminster. We will be talking

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Westminster. We will be talking Westminster. We will be talking

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Westminster. We will be talking about the highs and lows of the

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political catwalk. political catwalk.

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political catwalk. political catwalk.

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All that in the next hour, and with All that in the next hour, and with

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All that in the next hour, and with us for the duration, former Home

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us for the duration, former Home Secretary, former health secretary,

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Secretary, former health secretary, Secretary, former health secretary,

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former Work and Pensions Secretary, former Work and Pensions Secretary,

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former Work and Pensions Secretary, former trade and industry secretary,

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former trade and industry secretary, former trade and industry secretary,

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former education secretary and he former education secretary and he

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former education secretary and he former education secretary and he

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even bag is the job as former Shadow even bag is the job as former Shadow

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even bag is the job as former Shadow Chancellor. No wonder an opponent

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Chancellor. No wonder an opponent Chancellor. No wonder an opponent

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Chancellor. No wonder an opponent was so high! You were doing it all.

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was so high! You were doing it all. was so high! You were doing it all.

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Welcome, Alan Johnson. Good to see Welcome, Alan Johnson. Good to see

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Welcome, Alan Johnson. Good to see Welcome, Alan Johnson. Good to see

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you in daylight. You are on again you in daylight. You are on again

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you in daylight. You are on again later tonight. If you have forgotten

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later tonight. If you have forgotten later tonight. If you have forgotten

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what a talented education secretary what a talented education secretary

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what a talented education secretary what a talented education secretary

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Alan was, take a look at him in Alan was, take a look at him in

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Alan was, take a look at him in Alan was, take a look at him in

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action. # P's taking us to the zoo action. # P's taking us to the zoo

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action. # P's taking us to the zoo action. # P's taking us to the zoo

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tomorrow, we are going to stay all tomorrow, we are going to stay all

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tomorrow, we are going to stay all tomorrow, we are going to stay all

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tomorrow, we are going to stay all day. # we are going to the zoo, zoo,

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day. # we are going to the zoo, zoo, day. # we are going to the zoo, zoo,

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day. # we are going to the zoo, zoo, zoo. # how about you, you, you? You

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zoo. # how about you, you, you? You zoo. # how about you, you, you? You

:02:52.:02:52.

zoo. # how about you, you, you? You are a great audience. That was part

:02:53.:02:58.

are a great audience. That was part are a great audience. That was part

:02:58.:02:58.

are a great audience. That was part of my deputy leadership. I just did

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of my deputy leadership. I just did of my deputy leadership. I just did

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of my deputy leadership. I just did that once in Hull. You are obviously

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that once in Hull. You are obviously that once in Hull. You are obviously

:03:05.:03:05.

multitalented. But can you answer multitalented. But can you answer

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multitalented. But can you answer these questions is? Lots of talk

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these questions is? Lots of talk these questions is? Lots of talk

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about the NHS Chief Executive, Sir about the NHS Chief Executive, Sir

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about the NHS Chief Executive, Sir David Nicholson. Why are you backing

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David Nicholson. Why are you backing David Nicholson. Why are you backing

:03:14.:03:14.

David Nicholson. Why are you backing him and not calling for him to step

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him and not calling for him to step him and not calling for him to step

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down? Firstly because there was a down? Firstly because there was a

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down? Firstly because there was a public enquiry which took three

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public enquiry which took three public enquiry which took three

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years, produced 2-macro volumes and years, produced 2-macro volumes and

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years, produced 2-macro volumes and years, produced 2-macro volumes and

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not only did not say that David not only did not say that David

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Nicholson was responsible, but Nicholson was responsible, but

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Nicholson was responsible, but having examined all the conspiracy

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having examined all the conspiracy having examined all the conspiracy

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having examined all the conspiracy theories, had him in the dock for 11

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theories, had him in the dock for 11 theories, had him in the dock for 11

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theories, had him in the dock for 11 theories, had him in the dock for 11

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hours in front of a QC, it said it hours in front of a QC, it said it

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hours in front of a QC, it said it would be wrong to scapegoat anyone

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would be wrong to scapegoat anyone would be wrong to scapegoat anyone

:03:36.:03:39.

over what happened at Stafford. He over what happened at Stafford. He

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over what happened at Stafford. He said there were wider lessons for

:03:43.:03:44.

said there were wider lessons for said there were wider lessons for

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said there were wider lessons for the NHS. I was Home Secretary at the

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the NHS. I was Home Secretary at the the NHS. I was Home Secretary at the

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time and what happened there was time and what happened there was

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time and what happened there was time and what happened there was

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incredible and it was not what was incredible and it was not what was

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incredible and it was not what was happening in the NHS generally.

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happening in the NHS generally. happening in the NHS generally.

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what about the families of the what about the families of the

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what about the families of the victims who suffered during that

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victims who suffered during that victims who suffered during that

:04:00.:04:01.

time? Is there no accountability at time? Is there no accountability at

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time? Is there no accountability at the top? If you oversee an

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the top? If you oversee an the top? If you oversee an

:04:04.:04:05.

organisation that is to blame, organisation that is to blame,

:04:05.:04:07.

organisation that is to blame, whether the individuals are, for the

:04:07.:04:07.

whether the individuals are, for the whether the individuals are, for the

:04:07.:04:09.

deaths of hundreds, surely you take deaths of hundreds, surely you take

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deaths of hundreds, surely you take deaths of hundreds, surely you take

:04:10.:04:12.

the rap is Mac no, I don't think the rap is Mac no, I don't think

:04:12.:04:16.

the rap is Mac no, I don't think the rap is Mac no, I don't think

:04:16.:04:17.

that is the case. We had three that is the case. We had three

:04:17.:04:17.

that is the case. We had three enquiries, but the families wanted a

:04:17.:04:19.

enquiries, but the families wanted a enquiries, but the families wanted a

:04:19.:04:23.

full public enquiry under the public full public enquiry under the public

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full public enquiry under the public enquiries act. We can't just spend

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enquiries act. We can't just spend enquiries act. We can't just spend

:04:26.:04:26.

enquiries act. We can't just spend the money on that and then ignore it

:04:26.:04:27.

the money on that and then ignore it the money on that and then ignore it

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the money on that and then ignore it or have a trial by media. For the

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or have a trial by media. For the or have a trial by media. For the

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families, people keep talking about families, people keep talking about

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families, people keep talking about the number of avoidable deaths. What

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the number of avoidable deaths. What the number of avoidable deaths. What

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the number of avoidable deaths. What David Nicholson helped me to do was

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David Nicholson helped me to do was David Nicholson helped me to do was

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David Nicholson helped me to do was to ensure that every family that was

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to ensure that every family that was to ensure that every family that was

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worried about what happened to their worried about what happened to their

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worried about what happened to their loved one had an individual session

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loved one had an individual session loved one had an individual session

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with a clinician. 200 families took with a clinician. 200 families took

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with a clinician. 200 families took with a clinician. 200 families took

:04:58.:04:59.

part in that. You bandy about this part in that. You bandy about this

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part in that. You bandy about this part in that. You bandy about this

:05:00.:05:03.

figure as if they were killed by the figure as if they were killed by the

:05:03.:05:04.

figure as if they were killed by the figure as if they were killed by the

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NHS, but the mortality ratio is a NHS, but the mortality ratio is a

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NHS, but the mortality ratio is a statistic that denotes a whole

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statistic that denotes a whole statistic that denotes a whole

:05:07.:05:08.

series of thing. It suggests that series of thing. It suggests that

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series of thing. It suggests that there are problems, but does not

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there are problems, but does not there are problems, but does not

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suggest that all those people died suggest that all those people died

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suggest that all those people died unnecessarily. So it was important

:05:14.:05:15.

unnecessarily. So it was important unnecessarily. So it was important

:05:15.:05:16.

unnecessarily. So it was important for the families to have access to

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for the families to have access to for the families to have access to

:05:16.:05:18.

the case notes of every bejewelled. the case notes of every bejewelled.

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the case notes of every bejewelled. the case notes of every bejewelled.

:05:21.:05:22.

Has your party become lazy as far as Has your party become lazy as far as

:05:22.:05:23.

Has your party become lazy as far as the next election is concerned, as

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the next election is concerned, as the next election is concerned, as

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the next election is concerned, as your colleague Jim Murphy has had?

:05:27.:05:27.

your colleague Jim Murphy has had? your colleague Jim Murphy has had?

:05:27.:05:29.

your colleague Jim Murphy has had? think what Jim is saying is right,

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think what Jim is saying is right, think what Jim is saying is right,

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that we must not be complacent. that we must not be complacent.

:05:33.:05:34.

that we must not be complacent. that we must not be complacent.

:05:34.:05:36.

There is a school of thought that it There is a school of thought that it

:05:36.:05:37.

There is a school of thought that it would be impossible for Cameron to

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would be impossible for Cameron to would be impossible for Cameron to

:05:38.:05:40.

win the next general election, given win the next general election, given

:05:40.:05:41.

win the next general election, given that every sitting by Minister never

:05:41.:05:43.

that every sitting by Minister never that every sitting by Minister never

:05:43.:05:44.

increases their vote at the next increases their vote at the next

:05:44.:05:45.

increases their vote at the next election. That did not do that,

:05:45.:05:47.

election. That did not do that, election. That did not do that,

:05:47.:05:48.

election. That did not do that, Blair did not do that, and Cameron

:05:48.:05:50.

Blair did not do that, and Cameron Blair did not do that, and Cameron

:05:50.:05:51.

has to make up five percentage has to make up five percentage

:05:51.:05:52.

has to make up five percentage has to make up five percentage

:05:52.:05:54.

points. But what about the sense of points. But what about the sense of

:05:54.:05:54.

points. But what about the sense of entitlement Jim Murphy is talking

:05:55.:05:56.

entitlement Jim Murphy is talking entitlement Jim Murphy is talking

:05:56.:05:57.

about? Is the party complacent in about? Is the party complacent in

:05:57.:05:58.

about? Is the party complacent in about? Is the party complacent in

:05:58.:05:58.

areas of the country where they feel areas of the country where they feel

:05:58.:05:59.

areas of the country where they feel areas of the country where they feel

:05:59.:06:02.

they don't have to make an effort? they don't have to make an effort?

:06:02.:06:03.

they don't have to make an effort? they don't have to make an effort?

:06:03.:06:05.

hope not. I go round the country a hope not. I go round the country a

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hope not. I go round the country a lot. I have a meeting tomorrow

:06:06.:06:07.

lot. I have a meeting tomorrow lot. I have a meeting tomorrow

:06:07.:06:08.

lot. I have a meeting tomorrow evening in Norfolk. I don't get a

:06:08.:06:12.

evening in Norfolk. I don't get a evening in Norfolk. I don't get a

:06:12.:06:13.

evening in Norfolk. I don't get a sense of complacency, I get a sense

:06:13.:06:14.

sense of complacency, I get a sense sense of complacency, I get a sense

:06:14.:06:18.

sense of complacency, I get a sense that we are more a party of

:06:18.:06:20.

that we are more a party of that we are more a party of

:06:20.:06:20.

that we are more a party of government than we were in 1979. We

:06:20.:06:21.

government than we were in 1979. We government than we were in 1979. We

:06:21.:06:24.

are not tearing ourselves to are not tearing ourselves to

:06:24.:06:25.

pieces, we have ministerial pieces, we have ministerial

:06:25.:06:26.

pieces, we have ministerial pieces, we have ministerial

:06:26.:06:27.

experience and want to get back into experience and want to get back into

:06:27.:06:29.

experience and want to get back into government as soon as possible.

:06:29.:06:30.

government as soon as possible. government as soon as possible.

:06:30.:06:32.

government as soon as possible. government as soon as possible.

:06:32.:06:34.

you want to get back in? I am not you want to get back in? I am not

:06:34.:06:37.

you want to get back in? I am not straining at the leash. I am

:06:37.:06:38.

straining at the leash. I am straining at the leash. I am

:06:38.:06:40.

enjoying life on the backbenches. enjoying life on the backbenches.

:06:40.:06:40.

enjoying life on the backbenches. enjoying life on the backbenches.

:06:40.:06:44.

There aren't any jobs left for you There aren't any jobs left for you

:06:44.:06:44.

There aren't any jobs left for you There aren't any jobs left for you

:06:44.:06:47.

to do! And on the This Week benches. to do! And on the This Week benches.

:06:47.:06:47.

to do! And on the This Week benches. Is the one nation message getting

:06:48.:06:49.

Is the one nation message getting Is the one nation message getting

:06:49.:06:59.

through? It was a brilliant speech, through? It was a brilliant speech,

:06:59.:07:00.

through? It was a brilliant speech, through? It was a brilliant speech,

:07:00.:07:02.

and the idea to say, there are 197 and the idea to say, there are 197

:07:02.:07:03.

and the idea to say, there are 197 and the idea to say, there are 197

:07:03.:07:04.

seat is we need to win outside seat is we need to win outside

:07:04.:07:05.

seat is we need to win outside seat is we need to win outside

:07:05.:07:06.

London and we behold ten of them, London and we behold ten of them,

:07:06.:07:07.

London and we behold ten of them, London and we behold ten of them,

:07:07.:07:08.

this one nation message must be part this one nation message must be part

:07:08.:07:11.

this one nation message must be part this one nation message must be part

:07:11.:07:12.

of this. It did not get through in of this. It did not get through in

:07:12.:07:13.

of this. It did not get through in Eastleigh. We were never going to

:07:13.:07:20.

Eastleigh. We were never going to Eastleigh. We were never going to

:07:20.:07:21.

win Eastleigh. Maybe not, but were win Eastleigh. Maybe not, but were

:07:21.:07:25.

win Eastleigh. Maybe not, but were they saying one nation Labour?

:07:25.:07:25.

they saying one nation Labour? they saying one nation Labour?

:07:25.:07:26.

they saying one nation Labour? were the only party to increase our

:07:26.:07:27.

were the only party to increase our were the only party to increase our

:07:27.:07:34.

were the only party to increase our share of the vote. By 0.2%! Should

:07:34.:07:38.

share of the vote. By 0.2%! Should share of the vote. By 0.2%! Should

:07:38.:07:40.

share of the vote. By 0.2%! Should Ed Balls go? It has been said that

:07:40.:07:41.

Ed Balls go? It has been said that Ed Balls go? It has been said that

:07:41.:07:42.

Ed Balls go? It has been said that he is too tainted by the past, and

:07:42.:07:43.

he is too tainted by the past, and he is too tainted by the past, and

:07:43.:07:45.

he is too tainted by the past, and that would help the poll ratings.

:07:45.:07:46.

that would help the poll ratings. that would help the poll ratings.

:07:46.:07:49.

that would help the poll ratings. would not go along with that. What

:07:49.:07:51.

would not go along with that. What would not go along with that. What

:07:51.:07:52.

Ed Balls said in the Bloomberg Ed Balls said in the Bloomberg

:07:52.:07:56.

Ed Balls said in the Bloomberg speech was right. I remember

:07:56.:07:57.

speech was right. I remember speech was right. I remember

:07:57.:07:59.

Geoffrey Howe, as that Japan's Mike Geoffrey Howe, as that Japan's Mike

:07:59.:07:59.

Geoffrey Howe, as that Japan's Mike Shadow Chancellor, was not popular

:07:59.:08:01.

Shadow Chancellor, was not popular either. Shadow Chancellor's don't

:08:01.:08:07.

either. Shadow Chancellor's don't either. Shadow Chancellor's don't

:08:07.:08:08.

either. Shadow Chancellor's don't have to be popular. So go now, come

:08:08.:08:10.

have to be popular. So go now, come have to be popular. So go now, come

:08:10.:08:14.

back in 2016? That would be ridiculous.

:08:14.:08:15.

ridiculous. ridiculous.

:08:15.:08:17.

ridiculous. I have been told. Now, time for our

:08:17.:08:19.

I have been told. Now, time for our I have been told. Now, time for our

:08:19.:08:20.

I have been told. Now, time for our daily quiz. It was the hot topic at

:08:20.:08:20.

daily quiz. It was the hot topic at Prime Minister's Questions

:08:21.:08:21.

Prime Minister's Questions Prime Minister's Questions

:08:21.:08:22.

Prime Minister's Questions yesterday, so let's find out if our

:08:22.:08:23.

yesterday, so let's find out if our yesterday, so let's find out if our

:08:23.:08:24.

guest was paying attention. Can you guest was paying attention. Can you

:08:24.:08:25.

guest was paying attention. Can you guest was paying attention. Can you

:08:25.:08:30.

tell us which of these is the odd tell us which of these is the odd

:08:30.:08:31.

tell us which of these is the odd tell us which of these is the odd

:08:31.:08:32.

one out? Is it the bedroom tax, the one out? Is it the bedroom tax, the

:08:32.:08:34.

one out? Is it the bedroom tax, the spare room subsidy, the study

:08:34.:08:36.

spare room subsidy, the study spare room subsidy, the study

:08:36.:08:36.

surcharge or social housing under surcharge or social housing under

:08:36.:08:37.

surcharge or social housing under surcharge or social housing under

:08:37.:08:39.

occupancy policy? At the end of the occupancy policy? At the end of the

:08:39.:08:39.

occupancy policy? At the end of the occupancy policy? At the end of the

:08:40.:08:43.

show, Alan Johnson will give us the correct answer.

:08:43.:08:44.

correct answer. correct answer.

:08:44.:08:45.

correct answer. I do know the answer. Anyway, while

:08:45.:08:47.

I do know the answer. Anyway, while I do know the answer. Anyway, while

:08:47.:08:48.

I do know the answer. Anyway, while we have been on air, the Bank of

:08:48.:08:49.

we have been on air, the Bank of we have been on air, the Bank of

:08:49.:08:50.

England is reporting that interest England is reporting that interest

:08:50.:08:51.

England is reporting that interest rates will remain unchanged at 0.5

:08:51.:08:55.

rates will remain unchanged at 0.5 rates will remain unchanged at 0.5

:08:55.:08:55.

rates will remain unchanged at 0.5 cent. It is the lowest since the

:08:55.:08:56.

cent. It is the lowest since the cent. It is the lowest since the

:08:56.:08:57.

cent. It is the lowest since the Bank of England was founded. That is

:08:57.:08:59.

Bank of England was founded. That is Bank of England was founded. That is

:08:59.:09:00.

not a surprise. It is slightly not a surprise. It is slightly

:09:00.:09:01.

not a surprise. It is slightly surprising that there was no

:09:01.:09:02.

surprising that there was no surprising that there was no

:09:02.:09:04.

announcement about more printing of announcement about more printing of

:09:04.:09:07.

announcement about more printing of money, quantitative easing. Not this

:09:07.:09:09.

money, quantitative easing. Not this money, quantitative easing. Not this

:09:09.:09:11.

month, anyway. It is still an month, anyway. It is still an

:09:11.:09:12.

month, anyway. It is still an month, anyway. It is still an

:09:12.:09:12.

argument going on in the Bank of argument going on in the Bank of

:09:12.:09:17.

England monetary policy committee. England monetary policy committee.

:09:17.:09:18.

England monetary policy committee. England monetary policy committee.

:09:18.:09:19.

0.5% again. Now, it is the subject 0.5% again. Now, it is the subject

:09:19.:09:20.

0.5% again. Now, it is the subject most voters are concerned about, so

:09:20.:09:21.

most voters are concerned about, so most voters are concerned about, so

:09:21.:09:22.

obviously politicians don't like to obviously politicians don't like to

:09:22.:09:25.

obviously politicians don't like to talk honestly about it. But this

:09:25.:09:26.

talk honestly about it. But this morning, Shadow Home Secretary

:09:26.:09:27.

morning, Shadow Home Secretary morning, Shadow Home Secretary

:09:27.:09:28.

Yvette Cooper decided to tackle the Yvette Cooper decided to tackle the

:09:28.:09:30.

Yvette Cooper decided to tackle the thorny subject of immigration. She

:09:30.:09:31.

thorny subject of immigration. She thorny subject of immigration. She

:09:31.:09:32.

wanted to set out Labour's thinking wanted to set out Labour's thinking

:09:32.:09:34.

wanted to set out Labour's thinking wanted to set out Labour's thinking

:09:34.:09:35.

and, wait for it, admitted that the and, wait for it, admitted that the

:09:35.:09:36.

and, wait for it, admitted that the party made mistakes when in power.

:09:36.:09:39.

party made mistakes when in power. party made mistakes when in power.

:09:39.:09:40.

party made mistakes when in power. We know Britain cannot and must not

:09:40.:09:41.

We know Britain cannot and must not We know Britain cannot and must not

:09:41.:09:42.

plot the drawbridge on the outside plot the drawbridge on the outside

:09:42.:09:44.

plot the drawbridge on the outside world. We also know that immigration

:09:44.:09:46.

world. We also know that immigration world. We also know that immigration

:09:46.:09:47.

world. We also know that immigration needs to work for all, and many in

:09:47.:09:49.

needs to work for all, and many in needs to work for all, and many in

:09:49.:09:50.

Britain think it doesn't. Mass Britain think it doesn't. Mass

:09:50.:09:51.

Britain think it doesn't. Mass migration can cause stresses and

:09:51.:09:53.

migration can cause stresses and migration can cause stresses and

:09:53.:09:53.

strains, making it harder for people strains, making it harder for people

:09:53.:09:54.

strains, making it harder for people to put down roots or build

:09:54.:10:00.

to put down roots or build to put down roots or build

:10:00.:10:00.

communities. It can create economic communities. It can create economic

:10:00.:10:01.

and political tensions when and political tensions when

:10:01.:10:03.

and political tensions when resources are tight. Labour got

:10:03.:10:04.

resources are tight. Labour got resources are tight. Labour got

:10:04.:10:06.

something is wrong on immigration. something is wrong on immigration.

:10:06.:10:07.

something is wrong on immigration. something is wrong on immigration.

:10:07.:10:08.

We did tackle many problems in the We did tackle many problems in the

:10:08.:10:09.

We did tackle many problems in the asylum system that we inherited

:10:09.:10:12.

asylum system that we inherited asylum system that we inherited

:10:12.:10:13.

after 1997. We also wrote in after 1997. We also wrote in

:10:13.:10:13.

after 1997. We also wrote in stronger border checks, but we

:10:13.:10:15.

stronger border checks, but we stronger border checks, but we

:10:15.:10:16.

should have been quicker to should have been quicker to

:10:16.:10:17.

should have been quicker to introduce the Australian style macro

:10:17.:10:18.

introduce the Australian style macro introduce the Australian style macro

:10:18.:10:20.

points -based system, and we should points -based system, and we should

:10:20.:10:21.

points -based system, and we should have kept the transitional controls

:10:21.:10:22.

have kept the transitional controls have kept the transitional controls

:10:22.:10:24.

for Eastern Europe. We should also for Eastern Europe. We should also

:10:24.:10:25.

for Eastern Europe. We should also for Eastern Europe. We should also

:10:25.:10:26.

have looked at the impact and be have looked at the impact and be

:10:26.:10:27.

have looked at the impact and be have looked at the impact and be

:10:27.:10:28.

ready to talk about the problems, so ready to talk about the problems, so

:10:28.:10:29.

ready to talk about the problems, so ready to talk about the problems, so

:10:29.:10:29.

we know that needs to change. We we know that needs to change. We

:10:29.:10:31.

we know that needs to change. We will support the government where it

:10:31.:10:32.

will support the government where it will support the government where it

:10:32.:10:33.

brings in sensible policies, and we brings in sensible policies, and we

:10:33.:10:34.

brings in sensible policies, and we will point out where they are

:10:34.:10:37.

will point out where they are will point out where they are

:10:37.:10:37.

getting things wrong. We will not getting things wrong. We will not

:10:37.:10:39.

getting things wrong. We will not getting things wrong. We will not

:10:39.:10:40.

enter into an arms race of rhetoric enter into an arms race of rhetoric

:10:40.:10:42.

enter into an arms race of rhetoric about immigration, and we hope the

:10:42.:10:43.

about immigration, and we hope the about immigration, and we hope the

:10:43.:10:43.

prime minister will not either, prime minister will not either,

:10:43.:10:44.

prime minister will not either, prime minister will not either,

:10:44.:10:45.

because it is not good for Britain because it is not good for Britain

:10:45.:10:49.

because it is not good for Britain and it is not honest.

:10:49.:10:50.

and it is not honest. and it is not honest.

:10:50.:10:51.

and it is not honest. We are joined now by the immigration

:10:51.:10:54.

We are joined now by the immigration We are joined now by the immigration

:10:54.:10:56.

Minister, Mark Harper. It has been Minister, Mark Harper. It has been

:10:56.:10:57.

Minister, Mark Harper. It has been suggested that you are looking at

:10:57.:10:58.

suggested that you are looking at suggested that you are looking at

:10:58.:11:01.

changes to allow councils to give changes to allow councils to give

:11:01.:11:02.

council housing social housing council housing social housing

:11:02.:11:08.

council housing social housing priority to local people. It is

:11:08.:11:10.

priority to local people. It is priority to local people. It is

:11:10.:11:13.

basically to deter the perception basically to deter the perception

:11:13.:11:13.

basically to deter the perception that immigrants jump to housing

:11:13.:11:15.

that immigrants jump to housing that immigrants jump to housing

:11:15.:11:16.

that immigrants jump to housing queue. Is that true? It is one of

:11:16.:11:16.

queue. Is that true? It is one of queue. Is that true? It is one of

:11:16.:11:18.

queue. Is that true? It is one of the things we are looking at. To

:11:18.:11:20.

the things we are looking at. To the things we are looking at. To

:11:20.:11:20.

the things we are looking at. To pick up on something in that speech,

:11:20.:11:21.

pick up on something in that speech, pick up on something in that speech,

:11:21.:11:22.

pick up on something in that speech, we did not hear an apology for the

:11:22.:11:26.

we did not hear an apology for the we did not hear an apology for the

:11:26.:11:27.

mistakes Labour made. They did not mistakes Labour made. They did not

:11:27.:11:28.

mistakes Labour made. They did not hand over an immigration system in

:11:28.:11:30.

hand over an immigration system in hand over an immigration system in

:11:30.:11:31.

good control. They handed over 5000 good control. They handed over 5000

:11:31.:11:32.

good control. They handed over 5000 good control. They handed over 5000

:11:32.:11:34.

asylum cases that we had to work asylum cases that we had to work

:11:34.:11:35.

asylum cases that we had to work through. We had net migration

:11:35.:11:36.

through. We had net migration through. We had net migration

:11:36.:11:37.

through. We had net migration running at over 200 thousand a year

:11:37.:11:38.

running at over 200 thousand a year running at over 200 thousand a year

:11:38.:11:39.

running at over 200 thousand a year for a 10-year period. We have now

:11:39.:11:42.

for a 10-year period. We have now for a 10-year period. We have now

:11:42.:11:42.

for a 10-year period. We have now seen net migration for by a third in

:11:42.:11:47.

seen net migration for by a third in seen net migration for by a third in

:11:47.:11:48.

seen net migration for by a third in two years. She has backed none of

:11:48.:11:51.

two years. She has backed none of two years. She has backed none of

:11:52.:11:52.

two years. She has backed none of our changes. Let's get back to my

:11:52.:11:56.

our changes. Let's get back to my our changes. Let's get back to my

:11:57.:12:01.

questions. What will happen with the questions. What will happen with the

:12:01.:12:02.

questions. What will happen with the residency trust? -- residency test?

:12:02.:12:05.

residency trust? -- residency test? residency trust? -- residency test?

:12:05.:12:05.

residency trust? -- residency test? Last week, as I said, we have a

:12:06.:12:07.

Last week, as I said, we have a Last week, as I said, we have a

:12:07.:12:10.

committee of ministers across the committee of ministers across the

:12:10.:12:11.

committee of ministers across the government. I am chairing that

:12:11.:12:14.

government. I am chairing that government. I am chairing that

:12:14.:12:14.

government. I am chairing that group. We are looking at all of

:12:14.:12:15.

group. We are looking at all of group. We are looking at all of

:12:15.:12:17.

group. We are looking at all of these policies to look at what we

:12:17.:12:18.

these policies to look at what we these policies to look at what we

:12:18.:12:18.

these policies to look at what we offer to migrants, those from the EU

:12:18.:12:19.

offer to migrants, those from the EU offer to migrants, those from the EU

:12:20.:12:21.

offer to migrants, those from the EU and outside the EU. What we have

:12:21.:12:24.

and outside the EU. What we have and outside the EU. What we have

:12:24.:12:25.

made some decisions, we will made some decisions, we will

:12:25.:12:25.

made some decisions, we will announce them to Parliament and then

:12:25.:12:26.

announce them to Parliament and then announce them to Parliament and then

:12:26.:12:27.

announce them to Parliament and then I will come back on the program and

:12:27.:12:28.

I will come back on the program and I will come back on the program and

:12:28.:12:29.

I will come back on the program and discuss them will stop that was only

:12:29.:12:30.

discuss them will stop that was only discuss them will stop that was only

:12:30.:12:32.

discuss them will stop that was only discuss them will stop that was only

:12:32.:12:33.

a week ago, so it is unfair of you a week ago, so it is unfair of you

:12:33.:12:34.

a week ago, so it is unfair of you a week ago, so it is unfair of you

:12:34.:12:34.

to expect me to have made decisions to expect me to have made decisions

:12:34.:12:39.

to expect me to have made decisions in that time. But changing the

:12:39.:12:41.

in that time. But changing the in that time. But changing the

:12:41.:12:43.

residency test to deter people from residency test to deter people from

:12:43.:12:44.

residency test to deter people from coming here is under discussion?

:12:44.:12:45.

coming here is under discussion? coming here is under discussion?

:12:45.:12:46.

coming here is under discussion? are looking at it. If you are coming

:12:46.:12:48.

are looking at it. If you are coming are looking at it. If you are coming

:12:48.:12:49.

are looking at it. If you are coming here to work, you are then entitled

:12:49.:12:50.

here to work, you are then entitled here to work, you are then entitled

:12:50.:12:51.

here to work, you are then entitled to in work benefits. If you lose

:12:51.:12:52.

to in work benefits. If you lose to in work benefits. If you lose

:12:52.:12:52.

your job, you can then continue your job, you can then continue

:12:52.:12:53.

your job, you can then continue your job, you can then continue

:12:53.:12:54.

claiming them will stop there is a claiming them will stop there is a

:12:54.:12:56.

claiming them will stop there is a claiming them will stop there is a

:12:56.:12:58.

debate to be had about how long that debate to be had about how long that

:12:58.:12:59.

debate to be had about how long that debate continues. The secretary of

:12:59.:13:00.

debate continues. The secretary of debate continues. The secretary of

:13:00.:13:02.

state, Iain Duncan Smith, set that state, Iain Duncan Smith, set that

:13:02.:13:04.

state, Iain Duncan Smith, set that state, Iain Duncan Smith, set that

:13:04.:13:05.

out in the house. What about the out in the house. What about the

:13:05.:13:06.

out in the house. What about the idea of a benefits bond for

:13:06.:13:08.

idea of a benefits bond for idea of a benefits bond for

:13:08.:13:09.

immigrants where you would be immigrants where you would be

:13:09.:13:11.

immigrants where you would be immigrants where you would be

:13:11.:13:11.

entitled to put cash down when you entitled to put cash down when you

:13:12.:13:13.

entitled to put cash down when you entitled to put cash down when you

:13:13.:13:14.

came to the UK and you could then came to the UK and you could then

:13:14.:13:16.

choose the countries these choose the countries these

:13:16.:13:19.

choose the countries these immigrants came from? We are looking

:13:19.:13:20.

immigrants came from? We are looking immigrants came from? We are looking

:13:20.:13:21.

immigrants came from? We are looking at a range of options. I will not

:13:21.:13:22.

at a range of options. I will not at a range of options. I will not

:13:22.:13:23.

give you a running commentary on give you a running commentary on

:13:23.:13:24.

give you a running commentary on give you a running commentary on

:13:24.:13:26.

every idea that has been put into every idea that has been put into

:13:26.:13:29.

the newspapers that commentators the newspapers that commentators

:13:29.:13:30.

the newspapers that commentators have suggested. But are you

:13:30.:13:31.

have suggested. But are you have suggested. But are you

:13:31.:13:34.

considering it? We are considering a considering it? We are considering a

:13:34.:13:41.

considering it? We are considering a range of options. But what about

:13:41.:13:44.

range of options. But what about range of options. But what about

:13:44.:13:45.

range of options. But what about that option? You have said you will

:13:45.:13:46.

that option? You have said you will that option? You have said you will

:13:46.:13:47.

that option? You have said you will not tell me what the residency test

:13:47.:13:49.

not tell me what the residency test not tell me what the residency test

:13:49.:13:49.

not tell me what the residency test will be, but you are looking at it.

:13:49.:13:50.

will be, but you are looking at it. will be, but you are looking at it.

:13:50.:13:52.

will be, but you are looking at it. Why can't you tell me whether you

:13:52.:13:52.

Why can't you tell me whether you Why can't you tell me whether you

:13:52.:13:56.

Why can't you tell me whether you are looking at a benefit on?

:13:56.:13:57.

are looking at a benefit on? are looking at a benefit on?

:13:57.:13:58.

habitual residency test is something habitual residency test is something

:13:58.:13:59.

habitual residency test is something habitual residency test is something

:13:59.:14:00.

the secretary of state set out in the secretary of state set out in

:14:00.:14:01.

the secretary of state set out in Parliament and said we were looking

:14:01.:14:04.

Parliament and said we were looking Parliament and said we were looking

:14:04.:14:07.

Parliament and said we were looking at. There are lots of ideas that get

:14:07.:14:08.

at. There are lots of ideas that get at. There are lots of ideas that get

:14:08.:14:09.

put forward in newspapers. We are put forward in newspapers. We are

:14:09.:14:10.

put forward in newspapers. We are put forward in newspapers. We are

:14:10.:14:11.

looking at a range of options that looking at a range of options that

:14:11.:14:12.

looking at a range of options that looking at a range of options that

:14:12.:14:13.

we think might be successful. I am we think might be successful. I am

:14:13.:14:14.

we think might be successful. I am we think might be successful. I am

:14:14.:14:15.

not going to go through every idea not going to go through every idea

:14:15.:14:16.

not going to go through every idea not going to go through every idea

:14:16.:14:17.

that gets put into a newspaper and that gets put into a newspaper and

:14:17.:14:18.

that gets put into a newspaper and that gets put into a newspaper and

:14:18.:14:19.

tell you whether we are going to tell you whether we are going to

:14:19.:14:20.

tell you whether we are going to tell you whether we are going to

:14:20.:14:22.

consider it. We will set out our consider it. We will set out our

:14:22.:14:23.

consider it. We will set out our position one we have made some

:14:23.:14:24.

position one we have made some position one we have made some

:14:24.:14:24.

decisions is. The public will then decisions is. The public will then

:14:24.:14:26.

decisions is. The public will then decisions is. The public will then

:14:26.:14:27.

decisions is. The public will then see a clear plan to make sure we are

:14:27.:14:37.
:14:37.:14:39.

see a clear plan to make sure we are You had been boasting about the

:14:39.:14:41.

You had been boasting about the You had been boasting about the

:14:42.:14:42.

next migration figures. It was the next migration figures. It was the

:14:42.:14:44.

next migration figures. It was the same as when I was Foreign

:14:44.:14:47.

same as when I was Foreign same as when I was Foreign

:14:47.:14:48.

same as when I was Foreign Secretary. It was one hand and 79

:14:48.:14:50.

Secretary. It was one hand and 79 Secretary. It was one hand and 79

:14:50.:14:52.

Secretary. It was one hand and 79 and then rose to 224,000. That was

:14:53.:14:56.

and then rose to 224,000. That was and then rose to 224,000. That was

:14:56.:14:57.

in 2010. Figures announced in 2008, in 2010. Figures announced in 2008,

:14:57.:15:01.

in 2010. Figures announced in 2008, the year behind, was exactly

:15:01.:15:05.

the year behind, was exactly the year behind, was exactly

:15:05.:15:06.

163,000. The figures you have got 163,000. The figures you have got

:15:06.:15:09.

163,000. The figures you have got 163,000. The figures you have got

:15:09.:15:10.

up for the next year. No, 2009, I up for the next year. No, 2009, I

:15:10.:15:14.

up for the next year. No, 2009, I up for the next year. No, 2009, I

:15:14.:15:16.

have it here. The figures were the have it here. The figures were the

:15:16.:15:19.

have it here. The figures were the 2008, announced in 2009, was

:15:20.:15:21.

2008, announced in 2009, was 2008, announced in 2009, was

:15:21.:15:23.

163,000 net migration. Is it not 163,000 net migration. Is it not

:15:23.:15:24.

163,000 net migration. Is it not the case when the Romanians and

:15:24.:15:25.

the case when the Romanians and the case when the Romanians and

:15:25.:15:27.

Bulgarians are allowed to come here Bulgarians are allowed to come here

:15:27.:15:28.

Bulgarians are allowed to come here Bulgarians are allowed to come here

:15:28.:15:30.

at the start of next year, your net at the start of next year, your net

:15:30.:15:31.

at the start of next year, your net migration figures will be blown to

:15:31.:15:34.

migration figures will be blown to migration figures will be blown to

:15:34.:15:36.

smithereens? The answer is, I do smithereens? The answer is, I do

:15:36.:15:37.

smithereens? The answer is, I do not know. We won't make speculative

:15:37.:15:41.

not know. We won't make speculative forecasts. Commentators have made

:15:41.:15:44.

forecasts. Commentators have made forecasts. Commentators have made

:15:44.:15:45.

speculative forecasts. The big ones speculative forecasts. The big ones

:15:45.:15:47.

speculative forecasts. The big ones like France, Germany and Spain have

:15:47.:15:48.

like France, Germany and Spain have like France, Germany and Spain have

:15:48.:15:48.

transitional controls and they all transitional controls and they all

:15:48.:15:49.

transitional controls and they all transitional controls and they all

:15:49.:15:50.

transitional controls and they all have to come off at the end of this

:15:50.:15:51.

have to come off at the end of this have to come off at the end of this

:15:51.:15:53.

have to come off at the end of this year. Not just in Britain but in

:15:53.:15:55.

year. Not just in Britain but in year. Not just in Britain but in

:15:55.:15:57.

year. Not just in Britain but in those year -- countries as well.

:15:57.:15:59.

those year -- countries as well. those year -- countries as well.

:15:59.:16:00.

could reverse the decline? There is could reverse the decline? There is

:16:00.:16:03.

could reverse the decline? There is no evidence of that. Really?Trying

:16:03.:16:04.

no evidence of that. Really?Trying no evidence of that. Really?Trying

:16:04.:16:06.

to make forecasts are like that... to make forecasts are like that...

:16:06.:16:07.

to make forecasts are like that... to make forecasts are like that...

:16:07.:16:08.

I am not asking you to make I am not asking you to make

:16:08.:16:10.

I am not asking you to make forecasts, I said the numbers could

:16:10.:16:11.

forecasts, I said the numbers could forecasts, I said the numbers could

:16:11.:16:12.

be big enough to reverse the be big enough to reverse the

:16:13.:16:15.

be big enough to reverse the be big enough to reverse the

:16:15.:16:16.

decline. Do you know what the GDP decline. Do you know what the GDP

:16:16.:16:17.

decline. Do you know what the GDP per Capita is in Romania and

:16:17.:16:19.

per Capita is in Romania and per Capita is in Romania and

:16:19.:16:22.

Bulgaria? It is lower than here. Bulgaria? It is lower than here.

:16:22.:16:23.

Bulgaria? It is lower than here. Bulgaria? It is lower than here.

:16:23.:16:24.

But so is the cost of living. When But so is the cost of living. When

:16:24.:16:25.

But so is the cost of living. When you are making decisions about

:16:25.:16:28.

you are making decisions about you are making decisions about

:16:28.:16:29.

people moving from one country to people moving from one country to

:16:29.:16:31.

people moving from one country to another, they take into account, or

:16:31.:16:32.

another, they take into account, or another, they take into account, or

:16:32.:16:33.

the labour market and the benefits the labour market and the benefits

:16:33.:16:34.

the labour market and the benefits the labour market and the benefits

:16:34.:16:36.

system. We want to make sure that system. We want to make sure that

:16:36.:16:37.

system. We want to make sure that people don't think that coming to

:16:37.:16:37.

people don't think that coming to people don't think that coming to

:16:37.:16:39.

Britain is a way of getting Britain is a way of getting

:16:39.:16:40.

benefits and getting the benefits and getting the

:16:40.:16:41.

benefits and getting the opportunity of taking things away

:16:41.:16:42.

opportunity of taking things away opportunity of taking things away

:16:42.:16:43.

opportunity of taking things away from the country when you have not

:16:43.:16:45.

from the country when you have not from the country when you have not

:16:45.:16:46.

put anything into that. I think put anything into that. I think

:16:46.:16:47.

put anything into that. I think put anything into that. I think

:16:47.:16:49.

that is what the public wants us to that is what the public wants us to

:16:49.:16:52.

that is what the public wants us to that is what the public wants us to

:16:52.:16:52.

do. From the words from a Yvette do. From the words from a Yvette

:16:52.:16:53.

do. From the words from a Yvette do. From the words from a Yvette

:16:53.:16:54.

Cooper and Ed Miliband, is it not Cooper and Ed Miliband, is it not

:16:54.:16:56.

Cooper and Ed Miliband, is it not Cooper and Ed Miliband, is it not

:16:56.:16:58.

the case the words to the woman in the case the words to the woman in

:16:58.:16:59.

the case the words to the woman in Rochdale during the campaign when

:16:59.:17:00.

Rochdale during the campaign when Rochdale during the campaign when

:17:00.:17:02.

Rochdale during the campaign when he called her a bigot, that tells

:17:02.:17:04.

he called her a bigot, that tells he called her a bigot, that tells

:17:04.:17:05.

us what Labour's real attitude was us what Labour's real attitude was

:17:05.:17:06.

us what Labour's real attitude was to immigration when you were in

:17:06.:17:08.

to immigration when you were in to immigration when you were in

:17:08.:17:10.

to immigration when you were in power? No, it doesn't. It is unfair

:17:10.:17:12.

power? No, it doesn't. It is unfair power? No, it doesn't. It is unfair

:17:12.:17:14.

to Gordon Brown. When she said to Gordon Brown. When she said

:17:14.:17:15.

to Gordon Brown. When she said people were flocking to this

:17:15.:17:17.

people were flocking to this people were flocking to this

:17:17.:17:18.

country, Gordon thought she said country, Gordon thought she said

:17:18.:17:21.

country, Gordon thought she said something similar! If the economy

:17:21.:17:23.

something similar! If the economy something similar! If the economy

:17:23.:17:25.

something similar! If the economy gets any worse than it is, if the

:17:25.:17:25.

gets any worse than it is, if the gets any worse than it is, if the

:17:25.:17:29.

economy is bad, Mark might succeed economy is bad, Mark might succeed

:17:29.:17:30.

economy is bad, Mark might succeed economy is bad, Mark might succeed

:17:30.:17:31.

economy is bad, Mark might succeed - because he has got a target - of

:17:31.:17:34.

- because he has got a target - of - because he has got a target - of

:17:34.:17:35.

getting net migration down to tens getting net migration down to tens

:17:35.:17:36.

getting net migration down to tens getting net migration down to tens

:17:36.:17:37.

of thousands. He may succeed if the of thousands. He may succeed if the

:17:37.:17:40.

of thousands. He may succeed if the economy is dreadful. During our

:17:40.:17:42.

economy is dreadful. During our watch, globalisation meant there

:17:42.:17:42.

watch, globalisation meant there watch, globalisation meant there

:17:42.:17:43.

watch, globalisation meant there was a huge shift of people around

:17:43.:17:45.

was a huge shift of people around was a huge shift of people around

:17:45.:17:46.

the world, it affected every the world, it affected every

:17:46.:17:47.

the world, it affected every Western country and we were too

:17:47.:17:48.

Western country and we were too Western country and we were too

:17:48.:17:50.

Western country and we were too slow to deal with it. What Mark

:17:50.:17:51.

slow to deal with it. What Mark slow to deal with it. What Mark

:17:51.:17:52.

slow to deal with it. What Mark just said it is about taking 13

:17:52.:17:55.

just said it is about taking 13 just said it is about taking 13

:17:55.:17:55.

just said it is about taking 13 years on average. At the end of it,

:17:55.:17:57.

years on average. At the end of it, years on average. At the end of it,

:17:57.:17:58.

years on average. At the end of it, but points basis to me handed on

:17:58.:17:59.

but points basis to me handed on but points basis to me handed on

:17:59.:18:00.

but points basis to me handed on that they have not taken away - it

:18:00.:18:02.

that they have not taken away - it that they have not taken away - it

:18:02.:18:04.

that they have not taken away - it that they have not taken away - it

:18:04.:18:04.

will go up and the you. It went up will go up and the you. It went up

:18:04.:18:06.

will go up and the you. It went up on the youth. Already, you have

:18:06.:18:07.

on the youth. Already, you have on the youth. Already, you have

:18:07.:18:11.

been empowered the three years. been empowered the three years.

:18:11.:18:12.

Decent, mainstream politicians like Decent, mainstream politicians like

:18:12.:18:14.

Decent, mainstream politicians like Decent, mainstream politicians like

:18:14.:18:16.

Mark and myself, this is a bet Mark and myself, this is a bet

:18:16.:18:17.

Cooper's message this morning, Cooper's message this morning,

:18:17.:18:18.

Cooper's message this morning, shouldn't be arguing the way they

:18:18.:18:20.

shouldn't be arguing the way they shouldn't be arguing the way they

:18:20.:18:21.

are arguing on emigration. We are arguing on emigration. We

:18:22.:18:22.

are arguing on emigration. We are arguing on emigration. We

:18:23.:18:23.

believe the same thing, it is good believe the same thing, it is good

:18:24.:18:24.

believe the same thing, it is good believe the same thing, it is good

:18:24.:18:25.

but it needs to be controlled and but it needs to be controlled and

:18:25.:18:28.

but it needs to be controlled and but it needs to be controlled and

:18:28.:18:29.

people need to come here, keep the people need to come here, keep the

:18:29.:18:31.

people need to come here, keep the law, speak the language and pay

:18:31.:18:33.

law, speak the language and pay law, speak the language and pay

:18:33.:18:35.

taxes. This has affected every taxes. This has affected every

:18:35.:18:36.

taxes. This has affected every Western company -- country. It you

:18:36.:18:37.

Western company -- country. It you Western company -- country. It you

:18:37.:18:39.

can have a debate around these can have a debate around these

:18:39.:18:40.

can have a debate around these things, I am perfectly willing to

:18:40.:18:43.

things, I am perfectly willing to things, I am perfectly willing to

:18:43.:18:45.

things, I am perfectly willing to listen to an argument about a cat.

:18:45.:18:46.

listen to an argument about a cat. listen to an argument about a cat.

:18:46.:18:48.

listen to an argument about a cat. Alan is right when he says the

:18:48.:18:49.

Alan is right when he says the Alan is right when he says the

:18:49.:18:51.

pressure is there in terms of pressure is there in terms of

:18:51.:18:52.

globalisation movement. But other globalisation movement. But other

:18:52.:18:53.

globalisation movement. But other countries did not see the same

:18:53.:18:55.

countries did not see the same countries did not see the same

:18:55.:18:56.

rises. He is right about the rises. He is right about the

:18:56.:18:58.

rises. He is right about the economic growth, but the economy

:18:58.:19:00.

economic growth, but the economy economic growth, but the economy

:19:00.:19:01.

has created over one million has created over one million

:19:01.:19:03.

private sector jobs. Employment private sector jobs. Employment

:19:03.:19:04.

private sector jobs. Employment figures recently has shown the

:19:04.:19:05.

figures recently has shown the figures recently has shown the

:19:05.:19:07.

increase of people getting into increase of people getting into

:19:07.:19:08.

increase of people getting into increase of people getting into

:19:08.:19:09.

work, nine out of 10 of those work, nine out of 10 of those

:19:09.:19:10.

work, nine out of 10 of those people were British citizens or

:19:10.:19:12.

people were British citizens or people were British citizens or

:19:12.:19:13.

rather than foreign nationals. That rather than foreign nationals. That

:19:13.:19:14.

rather than foreign nationals. That rather than foreign nationals. That

:19:14.:19:15.

is something that was not true when is something that was not true when

:19:15.:19:17.

is something that was not true when Labour were in power. What about

:19:17.:19:18.

Labour were in power. What about Labour were in power. What about

:19:18.:19:19.

Labour were in power. What about making this clear, as a beck Cooper

:19:19.:19:25.

making this clear, as a beck Cooper making this clear, as a beck Cooper

:19:25.:19:27.

did this morning, two verts of did this morning, two verts of

:19:27.:19:29.

did this morning, two verts of migration are Brits. Brits who have

:19:29.:19:31.

migration are Brits. Brits who have migration are Brits. Brits who have

:19:31.:19:32.

been living abroad and coming back been living abroad and coming back

:19:32.:19:33.

been living abroad and coming back to this country are counted as

:19:33.:19:35.

to this country are counted as to this country are counted as

:19:36.:19:37.

immigrants. So people saying these immigrants. So people saying these

:19:37.:19:39.

people coming from different people coming from different

:19:39.:19:42.

countries, the biggest country countries, the biggest country

:19:43.:19:44.

countries, the biggest country people were coming from was Britain.

:19:44.:19:45.

people were coming from was Britain. people were coming from was Britain.

:19:45.:19:47.

people were coming from was Britain. You can defuse some of the argument

:19:47.:19:48.

You can defuse some of the argument You can defuse some of the argument

:19:48.:19:49.

that the non- decent, extreme that the non- decent, extreme

:19:49.:19:53.

that the non- decent, extreme politicians tried to put around

:19:53.:19:53.

politicians tried to put around politicians tried to put around

:19:53.:19:55.

immigration he just quote these immigration he just quote these

:19:55.:19:56.

immigration he just quote these immigration he just quote these

:19:56.:19:58.

facts. Except it is not a fact, net facts. Except it is not a fact, net

:19:58.:19:59.

facts. Except it is not a fact, net facts. Except it is not a fact, net

:19:59.:20:01.

migration in your last year as Home migration in your last year as Home

:20:01.:20:05.

migration in your last year as Home Secretary was 224,000, of which

:20:05.:20:06.

Secretary was 224,000, of which Secretary was 224,000, of which

:20:06.:20:07.

160,000 were non EU members or 160,000 were non EU members or

:20:07.:20:08.

160,000 were non EU members or 160,000 were non EU members or

:20:08.:20:12.

citizen. The Brits made part of it, citizen. The Brits made part of it,

:20:12.:20:13.

citizen. The Brits made part of it, but you're allowed in the majority

:20:13.:20:14.

but you're allowed in the majority but you're allowed in the majority

:20:14.:20:16.

but you're allowed in the majority of the net which was made up of

:20:16.:20:17.

of the net which was made up of of the net which was made up of

:20:17.:20:18.

of the net which was made up of non- EU members. I will take five

:20:18.:20:19.

non- EU members. I will take five non- EU members. I will take five

:20:19.:20:20.

months responsibility the 2010, the months responsibility the 2010, the

:20:20.:20:21.

months responsibility the 2010, the rest of it was under this

:20:21.:20:24.

rest of it was under this rest of it was under this

:20:24.:20:25.

Government. It was under your Government. It was under your

:20:25.:20:26.

Government. It was under your policies. Since we have been in

:20:26.:20:28.

policies. Since we have been in policies. Since we have been in

:20:28.:20:30.

power, because that came out last power, because that came out last

:20:30.:20:30.

power, because that came out last power, because that came out last

:20:31.:20:31.

week showed a fall of over a third week showed a fall of over a third

:20:31.:20:32.

week showed a fall of over a third week showed a fall of over a third

:20:32.:20:34.

and most of that was a cut in and most of that was a cut in

:20:34.:20:37.

immigration, the lowest number immigration, the lowest number

:20:37.:20:38.

immigration, the lowest number immigration, the lowest number

:20:38.:20:39.

since 2003. When you look at the since 2003. When you look at the

:20:39.:20:40.

since 2003. When you look at the since 2003. When you look at the

:20:40.:20:42.

short term, there is a touch of was short term, there is a touch of was

:20:42.:20:43.

short term, there is a touch of was talking about this morning? I don't

:20:43.:20:44.

talking about this morning? I don't talking about this morning? I don't

:20:44.:20:45.

think there is any evidence there think there is any evidence there

:20:46.:20:49.

think there is any evidence there is a problem. Those are students

:20:49.:20:50.

is a problem. Those are students coming into English-language

:20:50.:20:52.

coming into English-language coming into English-language

:20:52.:20:53.

coming into English-language schools on short courses. If we see

:20:53.:20:54.

schools on short courses. If we see schools on short courses. If we see

:20:54.:20:56.

evidence there is a problem, of evidence there is a problem, of

:20:56.:20:56.

evidence there is a problem, of evidence there is a problem, of

:20:56.:20:59.

course we will deal with it, as we course we will deal with it, as we

:20:59.:21:01.

course we will deal with it, as we course we will deal with it, as we

:21:01.:21:01.

have since the election. It is not have since the election. It is not

:21:01.:21:02.

have since the election. It is not in the net migration figures, that

:21:02.:21:03.

in the net migration figures, that in the net migration figures, that

:21:03.:21:06.

in the net migration figures, that is why they ignore it. Thanks for

:21:06.:21:07.

is why they ignore it. Thanks for is why they ignore it. Thanks for

:21:07.:21:12.

coming on. Come back. I will. coming on. Come back. I will.

:21:12.:21:13.

Now yesterday William Hague Now yesterday William Hague

:21:13.:21:14.

announced that armoured vehicles announced that armoured vehicles

:21:14.:21:15.

announced that armoured vehicles would be sent to help opposition

:21:15.:21:17.

would be sent to help opposition would be sent to help opposition

:21:17.:21:18.

forces fighting in Syria. The forces fighting in Syria. The

:21:18.:21:19.

forces fighting in Syria. The Foreign Secretary said he hoped the

:21:19.:21:20.

Foreign Secretary said he hoped the Foreign Secretary said he hoped the

:21:20.:21:23.

equipment would help save lives. It equipment would help save lives. It

:21:23.:21:24.

was a controversial announcement was a controversial announcement

:21:24.:21:25.

which didn't please everyone. which didn't please everyone.

:21:25.:21:26.

which didn't please everyone. Here's a flavour of the Commons

:21:26.:21:36.
:21:36.:21:37.

yesterday afternoon. yesterday afternoon.

:21:37.:21:40.

yesterday afternoon. We will also provide non-lethal

:21:40.:21:41.

We will also provide non-lethal protection of civilians, going

:21:41.:21:42.

protection of civilians, going protection of civilians, going

:21:42.:21:44.

protection of civilians, going beyond what we have done before. We

:21:44.:21:45.

beyond what we have done before. We are identifying the protective

:21:45.:21:47.

are identifying the protective are identifying the protective

:21:47.:21:49.

equipment which will be of most equipment which will be of most

:21:49.:21:49.

equipment which will be of most assistance to them and likely to

:21:49.:21:51.

assistance to them and likely to assistance to them and likely to

:21:51.:21:52.

assistance to them and likely to save most lives. I will keep the

:21:52.:21:53.

save most lives. I will keep the save most lives. I will keep the

:21:53.:21:55.

save most lives. I will keep the House of dated, but it will include

:21:55.:21:57.

House of dated, but it will include armoured, four-wheel-drive vehicles

:21:57.:21:58.

armoured, four-wheel-drive vehicles armoured, four-wheel-drive vehicles

:21:58.:21:59.

to help opposition figures to move to help opposition figures to move

:21:59.:22:01.

to help opposition figures to move around freely, as well as personal

:22:01.:22:03.

around freely, as well as personal protection equipment, including

:22:03.:22:06.

protection equipment, including protection equipment, including

:22:06.:22:07.

body armour. Surely the priority body armour. Surely the priority

:22:07.:22:08.

body armour. Surely the priority body armour. Surely the priority

:22:08.:22:09.

for Britain should be to unify the for Britain should be to unify the

:22:09.:22:10.

for Britain should be to unify the Syrian opposition, not to on it.

:22:10.:22:13.

Syrian opposition, not to on it. Syrian opposition, not to on it.

:22:13.:22:14.

The continuing loss of life The continuing loss of life

:22:14.:22:16.

The continuing loss of life The continuing loss of life

:22:16.:22:17.

underlines the fact it needs to see underlines the fact it needs to see

:22:17.:22:18.

a de-escalation and political a de-escalation and political

:22:18.:22:20.

resolution. While the Government resolution. While the Government

:22:20.:22:21.

resolution. While the Government resolution. While the Government

:22:21.:22:23.

has our support for its actions to has our support for its actions to

:22:23.:22:25.

provide humanitarian and non-lethal provide humanitarian and non-lethal

:22:25.:22:26.

provide humanitarian and non-lethal provide humanitarian and non-lethal

:22:26.:22:26.

assistance to Syria, it is far from assistance to Syria, it is far from

:22:27.:22:28.

assistance to Syria, it is far from clear that taking steps to

:22:28.:22:28.

clear that taking steps to clear that taking steps to

:22:28.:22:30.

intensive by this conflict in the intensive by this conflict in the

:22:30.:22:31.

intensive by this conflict in the months ahead, would do anything to

:22:31.:22:32.

months ahead, would do anything to months ahead, would do anything to

:22:32.:22:33.

reduce the present level of reduce the present level of

:22:33.:22:34.

reduce the present level of violence being suffered by the

:22:34.:22:38.

violence being suffered by the violence being suffered by the

:22:38.:22:40.

Syrian people. While I welcome the Syrian people. While I welcome the

:22:40.:22:41.

Syrian people. While I welcome the Foreign Secretary's speech and the

:22:41.:22:42.

Foreign Secretary's speech and the Foreign Secretary's speech and the

:22:42.:22:43.

measures he has announced, I regret measures he has announced, I regret

:22:43.:22:44.

measures he has announced, I regret measures he has announced, I regret

:22:44.:22:45.

measures he has announced, I regret to say I cannot see how any of them

:22:45.:22:46.

to say I cannot see how any of them to say I cannot see how any of them

:22:46.:22:47.

will have any serious prospect of will have any serious prospect of

:22:47.:22:49.

will have any serious prospect of reducing the length of this

:22:49.:22:51.

reducing the length of this conflict and preventing the

:22:51.:22:52.

conflict and preventing the conflict and preventing the

:22:52.:22:54.

massacre of tens of thousands of massacre of tens of thousands of

:22:54.:22:55.

massacre of tens of thousands of massacre of tens of thousands of

:22:55.:22:56.

more Syrians. In my judgment he is more Syrians. In my judgment he is

:22:56.:22:57.

more Syrians. In my judgment he is more Syrians. In my judgment he is

:22:57.:22:59.

right not to rule out the option of right not to rule out the option of

:22:59.:23:03.

direct, military supplies. The direct, military supplies. The

:23:03.:23:03.

strategic, diplomatic consequences strategic, diplomatic consequences

:23:04.:23:06.

strategic, diplomatic consequences of any such decision, and the

:23:06.:23:07.

of any such decision, and the of any such decision, and the

:23:07.:23:09.

of any such decision, and the degree to which we can get bogged

:23:09.:23:11.

degree to which we can get bogged degree to which we can get bogged

:23:11.:23:12.

degree to which we can get bogged degree to which we can get bogged

:23:12.:23:12.

down in a kind of cold war, a proxy down in a kind of cold war, a proxy

:23:12.:23:13.

down in a kind of cold war, a proxy down in a kind of cold war, a proxy

:23:13.:23:15.

war in that situation, needs to be war in that situation, needs to be

:23:15.:23:17.

war in that situation, needs to be thought through carefully before we

:23:17.:23:18.

thought through carefully before we thought through carefully before we

:23:18.:23:19.

make a positive decision. Is there make a positive decision. Is there

:23:19.:23:21.

make a positive decision. Is there make a positive decision. Is there

:23:21.:23:21.

any chance we can put all our any chance we can put all our

:23:21.:23:23.

any chance we can put all our efforts into getting a ceasefire

:23:23.:23:26.

efforts into getting a ceasefire efforts into getting a ceasefire

:23:26.:23:28.

arranged, so that in that ceasefire arranged, so that in that ceasefire

:23:28.:23:29.

arranged, so that in that ceasefire when the guns stop and civilians

:23:29.:23:30.

when the guns stop and civilians when the guns stop and civilians

:23:30.:23:31.

stop being killed, we might stop being killed, we might

:23:31.:23:33.

stop being killed, we might stop being killed, we might

:23:33.:23:33.

actually be able to use politics to actually be able to use politics to

:23:33.:23:36.

solve the situation. solve the situation.

:23:36.:23:37.

solve the situation. solve the situation.

:23:37.:23:38.

Joining us now is chairman of the Joining us now is chairman of the

:23:38.:23:43.

Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, Richard Ottaway.

:23:43.:23:44.

Richard Ottaway. Richard Ottaway.

:23:44.:23:45.

Did you agree with what William Did you agree with what William

:23:45.:23:46.

Did you agree with what William Did you agree with what William

:23:46.:23:48.

Hague announced, is it a good idea? Hague announced, is it a good idea?

:23:48.:23:49.

Hague announced, is it a good idea? Hague announced, is it a good idea?

:23:49.:23:50.

Yes, I think if we are going to Yes, I think if we are going to

:23:50.:23:51.

Yes, I think if we are going to play a role on the international

:23:51.:23:53.

play a role on the international play a role on the international

:23:53.:23:54.

stage, we have to take stage, we have to take

:23:54.:23:55.

stage, we have to take responsibility see Risley. He is

:23:55.:23:57.

responsibility see Risley. He is responsibility see Risley. He is

:23:57.:23:59.

concerned about the way the concerned about the way the

:23:59.:24:00.

concerned about the way the situation is deteriorating and I

:24:00.:24:01.

situation is deteriorating and I situation is deteriorating and I

:24:01.:24:01.

situation is deteriorating and I think this was the right step to

:24:01.:24:04.

think this was the right step to think this was the right step to

:24:04.:24:06.

think this was the right step to take. Is it going to save lives? If

:24:06.:24:07.

take. Is it going to save lives? If take. Is it going to save lives? If

:24:07.:24:08.

you're going to provide armoured you're going to provide armoured

:24:08.:24:09.

you're going to provide armoured vehicles and body armour to Syrian

:24:09.:24:11.

vehicles and body armour to Syrian vehicles and body armour to Syrian

:24:11.:24:12.

vehicles and body armour to Syrian rebels, why don't you on them with

:24:12.:24:14.

rebels, why don't you on them with rebels, why don't you on them with

:24:14.:24:15.

guns and ammunition? We think it guns and ammunition? We think it

:24:15.:24:16.

guns and ammunition? We think it guns and ammunition? We think it

:24:16.:24:18.

will save lives, that is why we are will save lives, that is why we are

:24:18.:24:19.

will save lives, that is why we are supplying the equipment. But there

:24:19.:24:22.

supplying the equipment. But there supplying the equipment. But there

:24:22.:24:24.

is a distinction between providing is a distinction between providing

:24:24.:24:26.

is a distinction between providing a protective weapon and giving guns

:24:26.:24:28.

a protective weapon and giving guns a protective weapon and giving guns

:24:28.:24:28.

a protective weapon and giving guns and ammunition as two rebels he we

:24:28.:24:29.

and ammunition as two rebels he we and ammunition as two rebels he we

:24:29.:24:31.

and ammunition as two rebels he we do not know, and whose identity is

:24:31.:24:32.

do not know, and whose identity is do not know, and whose identity is

:24:32.:24:34.

uncertain and their intentions on uncertain and their intentions on

:24:34.:24:35.

uncertain and their intentions on clear. But why then even drift

:24:35.:24:37.

clear. But why then even drift towards giving armoured vehicles

:24:37.:24:39.

towards giving armoured vehicles towards giving armoured vehicles

:24:39.:24:43.

and body armour? People are dying and body armour? People are dying

:24:43.:24:43.

and body armour? People are dying over there. There is a humanitarian

:24:43.:24:46.

over there. There is a humanitarian over there. There is a humanitarian

:24:46.:24:46.

disaster taking place, thousands of disaster taking place, thousands of

:24:46.:24:49.

disaster taking place, thousands of refugees on the move, people been

:24:49.:24:50.

refugees on the move, people been refugees on the move, people been

:24:50.:24:51.

killed daily. We cannot sit back killed daily. We cannot sit back

:24:51.:24:53.

killed daily. We cannot sit back and do nothing. It is slightly

:24:53.:24:53.

and do nothing. It is slightly and do nothing. It is slightly

:24:53.:24:54.

and do nothing. It is slightly academic as to whether we should be

:24:55.:24:56.

academic as to whether we should be academic as to whether we should be

:24:56.:24:57.

arming the rebels, because other arming the rebels, because other

:24:57.:24:57.

arming the rebels, because other arming the rebels, because other

:24:58.:25:00.

people on in them at the moment. people on in them at the moment.

:25:00.:25:01.

people on in them at the moment. Weapons are going in there will

:25:01.:25:02.

Weapons are going in there will Weapons are going in there will

:25:02.:25:04.

Weapons are going in there will stop if we are to take our

:25:04.:25:06.

international responsibilities international responsibilities

:25:06.:25:08.

international responsibilities seriously, we have to do something.

:25:08.:25:09.

seriously, we have to do something. seriously, we have to do something.

:25:09.:25:10.

Alan Johnson, do you agree that Alan Johnson, do you agree that

:25:10.:25:12.

Alan Johnson, do you agree that Alan Johnson, do you agree that

:25:12.:25:13.

something had to be done? Yes, I something had to be done? Yes, I

:25:13.:25:14.

something had to be done? Yes, I agree with that. Everyone wants

:25:14.:25:17.

agree with that. Everyone wants agree with that. Everyone wants

:25:17.:25:19.

agree with that. Everyone wants this to be settled by talking.

:25:19.:25:20.

this to be settled by talking. this to be settled by talking.

:25:20.:25:22.

this to be settled by talking. is not going to happen? There was

:25:22.:25:25.

is not going to happen? There was an important development, the

:25:25.:25:27.

an important development, the organisation we recognise, dropped

:25:27.:25:31.

organisation we recognise, dropped organisation we recognise, dropped

:25:31.:25:32.

their criteria that President Assad their criteria that President Assad

:25:32.:25:33.

their criteria that President Assad their criteria that President Assad

:25:33.:25:36.

had to leave before they would talk had to leave before they would talk

:25:36.:25:37.

had to leave before they would talk had to leave before they would talk

:25:37.:25:38.

about solving the issue. It is only about solving the issue. It is only

:25:38.:25:39.

about solving the issue. It is only about solving the issue. It is only

:25:40.:25:40.

a small thing, but it is a a small thing, but it is a

:25:40.:25:41.

a small thing, but it is a development. Most of the questions

:25:41.:25:42.

development. Most of the questions development. Most of the questions

:25:42.:25:43.

to William Hague yesterday, how do to William Hague yesterday, how do

:25:43.:25:45.

to William Hague yesterday, how do to William Hague yesterday, how do

:25:45.:25:46.

we manage to build on that? How do we manage to build on that? How do

:25:46.:25:48.

we manage to build on that? How do you avoid drifting towards military

:25:48.:25:49.

you avoid drifting towards military you avoid drifting towards military

:25:50.:25:50.

intervention? A ceasefire does not intervention? A ceasefire does not

:25:50.:25:52.

intervention? A ceasefire does not intervention? A ceasefire does not

:25:52.:25:54.

seem to be a realistic option at seem to be a realistic option at

:25:54.:25:55.

the moment, despite that the moment, despite that

:25:55.:25:58.

the moment, despite that development. Is there a fear that

:25:58.:25:59.

development. Is there a fear that development. Is there a fear that

:25:59.:26:00.

there could be a drift towards there could be a drift towards

:26:00.:26:02.

military intervention eventually? military intervention eventually?

:26:02.:26:04.

military intervention eventually? There is a real fear here.

:26:04.:26:06.

There is a real fear here. There is a real fear here.

:26:06.:26:07.

President Assad will eventually go, President Assad will eventually go,

:26:07.:26:08.

President Assad will eventually go, President Assad will eventually go,

:26:08.:26:09.

whether he will run out of money or whether he will run out of money or

:26:10.:26:11.

whether he will run out of money or is toppled another way. What goes

:26:11.:26:14.

is toppled another way. What goes is toppled another way. What goes

:26:14.:26:16.

into the vacuum, what is left into the vacuum, what is left

:26:16.:26:17.

into the vacuum, what is left into the vacuum, what is left

:26:17.:26:20.

behind him, is open to question. It behind him, is open to question. It

:26:20.:26:21.

behind him, is open to question. It behind him, is open to question. It

:26:21.:26:22.

could develop into a civil war, if could develop into a civil war, if

:26:22.:26:24.

could develop into a civil war, if could develop into a civil war, if

:26:24.:26:25.

we are not careful. You will have we are not careful. You will have

:26:25.:26:26.

we are not careful. You will have the various factions been on by

:26:26.:26:27.

the various factions been on by different countries around the

:26:27.:26:30.

different countries around the different countries around the

:26:30.:26:31.

world. Britain gets dragged in, but world. Britain gets dragged in, but

:26:31.:26:32.

world. Britain gets dragged in, but world. Britain gets dragged in, but

:26:32.:26:33.

in a sense it would be better to in a sense it would be better to

:26:33.:26:34.

in a sense it would be better to keep out altogether? We cannot keep

:26:35.:26:36.

keep out altogether? We cannot keep keep out altogether? We cannot keep

:26:37.:26:37.

keep out altogether? We cannot keep out altogether. We are part of the

:26:37.:26:38.

out altogether. We are part of the out altogether. We are part of the

:26:38.:26:42.

out altogether. We are part of the arms embargo by the youth will stop

:26:42.:26:44.

arms embargo by the youth will stop arms embargo by the youth will stop

:26:44.:26:46.

-- EU. Russia and China are -- EU. Russia and China are

:26:46.:26:47.

-- EU. Russia and China are stopping any progress through the

:26:47.:26:49.

stopping any progress through the stopping any progress through the

:26:49.:26:50.

UN Security Council. But what UN Security Council. But what

:26:50.:26:52.

William Hague announced yesterday, William Hague announced yesterday,

:26:52.:26:55.

William Hague announced yesterday, with a sense of frustration,

:26:55.:26:56.

with a sense of frustration, with a sense of frustration,

:26:56.:26:57.

actually we have to do something. actually we have to do something.

:26:57.:26:58.

actually we have to do something. actually we have to do something.

:26:58.:26:59.

We cannot just turn up back and We cannot just turn up back and

:27:00.:27:00.

We cannot just turn up back and walk away. What about the

:27:00.:27:03.

walk away. What about the walk away. What about the

:27:03.:27:04.

Americans? John Kerry was over last Americans? John Kerry was over last

:27:04.:27:05.

Americans? John Kerry was over last week talking to William Hague about

:27:05.:27:09.

week talking to William Hague about week talking to William Hague about

:27:09.:27:10.

this. Barack Obama's priorities on this. Barack Obama's priorities on

:27:10.:27:11.

this. Barack Obama's priorities on domestic and is reluctant to get

:27:11.:27:12.

domestic and is reluctant to get domestic and is reluctant to get

:27:12.:27:15.

domestic and is reluctant to get involved in any more wars. Do you

:27:15.:27:15.

involved in any more wars. Do you involved in any more wars. Do you

:27:15.:27:16.

think you should get involved? think you should get involved?

:27:16.:27:18.

think you should get involved? think you should get involved?

:27:18.:27:19.

is not for me to comment on, that is not for me to comment on, that

:27:19.:27:20.

is not for me to comment on, that is his political priorities. They

:27:21.:27:22.

is his political priorities. They is his political priorities. They

:27:22.:27:23.

is his political priorities. They have not walked away, but there is

:27:23.:27:25.

have not walked away, but there is have not walked away, but there is

:27:25.:27:27.

have not walked away, but there is a pivot going on away towards --

:27:27.:27:28.

a pivot going on away towards -- a pivot going on away towards --

:27:28.:27:29.

a pivot going on away towards -- away from the Middle East. But I

:27:29.:27:32.

away from the Middle East. But I away from the Middle East. But I

:27:32.:27:34.

suspect a lot of intelligence suspect a lot of intelligence

:27:34.:27:36.

information and equipment, so information and equipment, so

:27:36.:27:37.

information and equipment, so they're not divorced from the whole

:27:37.:27:39.

thing. thing.

:27:39.:27:45.

thing. thing.

:27:45.:27:50.

Two MPs in the House hands St the Two MPs in the House hands St the

:27:50.:27:51.

Two MPs in the House hands St the Two MPs in the House hands St the

:27:51.:27:56.

Hugo Chavez, who do you think they Hugo Chavez, who do you think they

:27:56.:28:05.

are? Hello President take. are? Hello President take.

:28:05.:28:06.

are? Hello President take. We're going to concentrate on

:28:06.:28:07.

We're going to concentrate on We're going to concentrate on

:28:07.:28:08.

matters economic for the next 20 matters economic for the next 20

:28:08.:28:09.

matters economic for the next 20 matters economic for the next 20

:28:09.:28:10.

minutes or so. So it's just as well minutes or so. So it's just as well

:28:10.:28:11.

minutes or so. So it's just as well we've got an honorary professor of

:28:11.:28:12.

we've got an honorary professor of we've got an honorary professor of

:28:12.:28:13.

economics with us. What is the economics with us. What is the

:28:13.:28:14.

economics with us. What is the economics with us. What is the

:28:14.:28:14.

first thing you will do when you first thing you will do when you

:28:14.:28:19.

first thing you will do when you start the job on Monday morning?

:28:19.:28:20.

start the job on Monday morning? start the job on Monday morning?

:28:20.:28:21.

start the job on Monday morning? Pick up a book on economics for

:28:21.:28:23.

Pick up a book on economics for Pick up a book on economics for

:28:23.:28:24.

Pick up a book on economics for begin its -- beginners. I had just

:28:24.:28:26.

begin its -- beginners. I had just begin its -- beginners. I had just

:28:26.:28:28.

begin its -- beginners. I had just been given a would cloud of all the

:28:28.:28:29.

been given a would cloud of all the been given a would cloud of all the

:28:29.:28:32.

words you use, people is the words you use, people is the

:28:32.:28:33.

words you use, people is the biggest, people, were, means and

:28:33.:28:36.

history. history.

:28:36.:28:37.

history. Earlier today, David Cameron had

:28:37.:28:38.

Earlier today, David Cameron had Earlier today, David Cameron had

:28:38.:28:39.

Earlier today, David Cameron had this to say about the state of the

:28:39.:28:43.

economy. economy.

:28:43.:28:44.

economy. economy.

:28:44.:28:45.

economy. If we stick to the plan and if we

:28:45.:28:47.

If we stick to the plan and if we If we stick to the plan and if we

:28:47.:28:47.

reject the false choices, we can reject the false choices, we can

:28:47.:28:50.

reject the false choices, we can come through this together with a

:28:50.:28:52.

come through this together with a come through this together with a

:28:52.:28:53.

stronger, more resilient and more stronger, more resilient and more

:28:53.:28:55.

stronger, more resilient and more balanced economy. But first, we

:28:55.:28:57.

balanced economy. But first, we balanced economy. But first, we

:28:57.:28:58.

balanced economy. But first, we want to start with what went wrong.

:28:58.:29:00.

want to start with what went wrong. want to start with what went wrong.

:29:00.:29:01.

If the don't understand what went If the don't understand what went

:29:01.:29:02.

If the don't understand what went If the don't understand what went

:29:02.:29:03.

wrong in our economy, we will never wrong in our economy, we will never

:29:03.:29:04.

wrong in our economy, we will never understand what is truly needed to

:29:04.:29:13.

understand what is truly needed to put him right.

:29:13.:29:14.

put him right. put him right.

:29:14.:29:15.

David Cameron a little earlier. David Cameron a little earlier.

:29:15.:29:16.

David Cameron a little earlier. Well the Business Secretary, Vince

:29:16.:29:17.

Well the Business Secretary, Vince Well the Business Secretary, Vince

:29:17.:29:17.

Cable, has also been pontificating Cable, has also been pontificating

:29:17.:29:20.

Cable, has also been pontificating Cable, has also been pontificating

:29:20.:29:21.

about the economy. But he had a about the economy. But he had a

:29:21.:29:22.

slightly different message. Writing slightly different message. Writing

:29:22.:29:32.
:29:32.:29:49.

slightly different message. Writing had to say. We are joined now by the

:29:49.:29:54.

had to say. We are joined now by the business minister, Michael Fallon.

:29:54.:29:55.

business minister, Michael Fallon. business minister, Michael Fallon.

:29:55.:29:59.

And the Liberal Democrat peer, And the Liberal Democrat peer,

:29:59.:29:59.

And the Liberal Democrat peer, Michael Oakeshott. Should we borrow

:29:59.:30:03.

Michael Oakeshott. Should we borrow more for investment?

:30:03.:30:04.

more for investment? more for investment?

:30:04.:30:06.

Well, we are borrowing at the Well, we are borrowing at the

:30:06.:30:06.

Well, we are borrowing at the Well, we are borrowing at the

:30:06.:30:08.

moment, but we have to keep things moment, but we have to keep things

:30:08.:30:10.

moment, but we have to keep things moment, but we have to keep things

:30:10.:30:11.

under control. That is why we are under control. That is why we are

:30:11.:30:11.

under control. That is why we are putting money aside for guarantees

:30:11.:30:16.

putting money aside for guarantees for infrastructure investment. We

:30:16.:30:20.

for infrastructure investment. We for infrastructure investment. We

:30:20.:30:20.

for infrastructure investment. We are doing that already. But we can't

:30:20.:30:21.

are doing that already. But we can't are doing that already. But we can't

:30:21.:30:24.

are doing that already. But we can't afford to deviate from our plan to

:30:24.:30:27.

afford to deviate from our plan to afford to deviate from our plan to

:30:27.:30:28.

get the fiscal consolidation working get the fiscal consolidation working

:30:28.:30:29.

get the fiscal consolidation working get the fiscal consolidation working

:30:29.:30:31.

and delivered by the end of this and delivered by the end of this

:30:31.:30:32.

and delivered by the end of this Parliament. But the figures for

:30:32.:30:34.

Parliament. But the figures for Parliament. But the figures for

:30:34.:30:34.

public investment in the red Hook public investment in the red Hook

:30:34.:30:38.

show a consistent decline, show a consistent decline,

:30:39.:30:40.

show a consistent decline, year-on-year from 2010 will stop so

:30:40.:30:40.

year-on-year from 2010 will stop so year-on-year from 2010 will stop so

:30:40.:30:41.

year-on-year from 2010 will stop so every year, you are spending less on

:30:41.:30:46.

every year, you are spending less on every year, you are spending less on

:30:46.:30:46.

public investment. On average, we public investment. On average, we

:30:46.:30:47.

public investment. On average, we are spending more than the last

:30:47.:30:49.

are spending more than the last are spending more than the last

:30:49.:30:50.

Labour government ever did. With the Labour government ever did. With the

:30:50.:30:52.

Labour government ever did. With the building of the Olympic Stadium and

:30:52.:30:53.

building of the Olympic Stadium and building of the Olympic Stadium and

:30:53.:30:57.

the pick of the hospital building the pick of the hospital building

:30:57.:30:58.

the pick of the hospital building programme, on average, we will spend

:30:58.:30:58.

programme, on average, we will spend programme, on average, we will spend

:30:58.:31:00.

programme, on average, we will spend more per year on capital. How much

:31:00.:31:01.

more per year on capital. How much more per year on capital. How much

:31:01.:31:04.

are you spending this financial year are you spending this financial year

:31:04.:31:06.

are you spending this financial year on public investment has Mac �40

:31:06.:31:08.

on public investment has Mac �40 on public investment has Mac �40

:31:08.:31:12.

on public investment has Mac �40 billion. No, it is 28. No, there is

:31:12.:31:13.

billion. No, it is 28. No, there is billion. No, it is 28. No, there is

:31:13.:31:15.

neither to investment coming in as neither to investment coming in as

:31:15.:31:16.

neither to investment coming in as well. I am talking about public

:31:16.:31:23.

well. I am talking about public investment. The government provides

:31:23.:31:26.

investment. The government provides investment. The government provides

:31:26.:31:26.

a guarantee, and private investment a guarantee, and private investment

:31:26.:31:30.

a guarantee, and private investment comes in behind it. Is public

:31:30.:31:33.

comes in behind it. Is public comes in behind it. Is public

:31:33.:31:34.

investment rising or falling? investment rising or falling?

:31:34.:31:37.

investment rising or falling? give you Vince's words. We inherited

:31:37.:31:37.

give you Vince's words. We inherited give you Vince's words. We inherited

:31:37.:31:39.

a cyclical downturn caused by the a cyclical downturn caused by the

:31:39.:31:41.

collapse of private housebuilding collapse of private housebuilding

:31:41.:31:43.

and commercial property development, and commercial property development,

:31:43.:31:44.

and commercial property development, and we have not started rebuilding

:31:44.:31:45.

and we have not started rebuilding and we have not started rebuilding

:31:45.:31:46.

that. Nick Clegg also said he that. Nick Clegg also said he

:31:46.:31:48.

that. Nick Clegg also said he that. Nick Clegg also said he

:31:48.:31:50.

regretted that we let it drop so regretted that we let it drop so

:31:50.:31:51.

regretted that we let it drop so regretted that we let it drop so

:31:51.:31:52.

far. What Michael is laying makes a far. What Michael is laying makes a

:31:52.:31:53.

far. What Michael is laying makes a far. What Michael is laying makes a

:31:53.:31:53.

lot of sense. He is talking about lot of sense. He is talking about

:31:53.:31:54.

lot of sense. He is talking about the guarantees that are helping the

:31:54.:31:56.

the guarantees that are helping the the guarantees that are helping the

:31:56.:31:57.

the guarantees that are helping the private sector come in. But it is

:31:57.:31:57.

private sector come in. But it is private sector come in. But it is

:31:57.:32:00.

private sector come in. But it is not a big enough scale. Five billion

:32:00.:32:01.

not a big enough scale. Five billion not a big enough scale. Five billion

:32:01.:32:01.

was committed for longer and was committed for longer and

:32:01.:32:03.

infrastructure projects which are infrastructure projects which are

:32:03.:32:06.

infrastructure projects which are very slow and capital intensive.

:32:06.:32:07.

very slow and capital intensive. very slow and capital intensive.

:32:07.:32:07.

Most and Liberal Democrats are Most and Liberal Democrats are

:32:07.:32:08.

Most and Liberal Democrats are Most and Liberal Democrats are

:32:08.:32:10.

saying we must do that in a much saying we must do that in a much

:32:10.:32:12.

bigger way, focusing on bigger way, focusing on

:32:12.:32:13.

bigger way, focusing on housebuilding. Last week, I was at

:32:13.:32:16.

housebuilding. Last week, I was at housebuilding. Last week, I was at

:32:16.:32:17.

Prudential. They all want to put Prudential. They all want to put

:32:17.:32:18.

Prudential. They all want to put Prudential. They all want to put

:32:18.:32:19.

vast amounts of money in, but the vast amounts of money in, but the

:32:19.:32:20.

vast amounts of money in, but the Treasury has to be more imaginative

:32:20.:32:22.

Treasury has to be more imaginative Treasury has to be more imaginative

:32:22.:32:25.

Treasury has to be more imaginative will stop they have to take away the

:32:25.:32:25.

will stop they have to take away the restrictions on Council Association

:32:25.:32:31.

restrictions on Council Association restrictions on Council Association

:32:31.:32:32.

borrowing. It is exactly what you borrowing. It is exactly what you

:32:32.:32:33.

borrowing. It is exactly what you have been talking about, Michael,

:32:33.:32:35.

have been talking about, Michael, have been talking about, Michael,

:32:35.:32:36.

have been talking about, Michael, instead of five alien, which takes a

:32:36.:32:37.

instead of five alien, which takes a instead of five alien, which takes a

:32:37.:32:39.

instead of five alien, which takes a long time to come through, let's say

:32:39.:32:41.

long time to come through, let's say long time to come through, let's say

:32:41.:32:42.

100,000 more houses a year. That 100,000 more houses a year. That

:32:42.:32:43.

100,000 more houses a year. That would create half a million more

:32:43.:32:44.

would create half a million more would create half a million more

:32:44.:32:45.

would create half a million more jobs. We are all signed up to this.

:32:45.:32:46.

jobs. We are all signed up to this. jobs. We are all signed up to this.

:32:46.:32:47.

The coalition agreement said we The coalition agreement said we

:32:47.:32:50.

The coalition agreement said we The coalition agreement said we

:32:50.:32:50.

would get the deficit down and get would get the deficit down and get

:32:50.:32:51.

would get the deficit down and get the economy growing, and we have

:32:51.:32:53.

the economy growing, and we have the economy growing, and we have

:32:53.:32:54.

the economy growing, and we have made a good start. But over the last

:32:54.:32:54.

made a good start. But over the last made a good start. But over the last

:32:54.:32:58.

made a good start. But over the last few months, it has gone wrong. The

:32:58.:32:59.

few months, it has gone wrong. The few months, it has gone wrong. The

:32:59.:33:00.

few months, it has gone wrong. The deficit is going up again. It is not

:33:00.:33:01.

deficit is going up again. It is not deficit is going up again. It is not

:33:01.:33:02.

deficit is going up again. It is not working. If I am given money to

:33:02.:33:03.

working. If I am given money to working. If I am given money to

:33:03.:33:04.

invest, we agreed the period over invest, we agreed the period over

:33:04.:33:07.

invest, we agreed the period over invest, we agreed the period over

:33:07.:33:07.

which we will measure it. We have which we will measure it. We have

:33:07.:33:09.

which we will measure it. We have which we will measure it. We have

:33:09.:33:10.

made a start. The balance of risks made a start. The balance of risks

:33:10.:33:11.

made a start. The balance of risks made a start. The balance of risks

:33:11.:33:13.

in the market has now changed. We in the market has now changed. We

:33:13.:33:14.

in the market has now changed. We have had a downgrade because the

:33:14.:33:16.

have had a downgrade because the markets don't believe austerities

:33:16.:33:16.

markets don't believe austerities markets don't believe austerities

:33:16.:33:17.

markets don't believe austerities working and they want to see more

:33:17.:33:22.

working and they want to see more working and they want to see more

:33:22.:33:23.

imaginative things. When you say it imaginative things. When you say it

:33:23.:33:23.

imaginative things. When you say it imaginative, you mean to borrow

:33:23.:33:29.

imaginative, you mean to borrow imaginative, you mean to borrow

:33:29.:33:34.

loads more. Like the Labour Party. loads more. Like the Labour Party.

:33:34.:33:35.

loads more. Like the Labour Party. What the markets and the rating

:33:35.:33:35.

What the markets and the rating What the markets and the rating

:33:35.:33:37.

agencies said was that there would agencies said was that there would

:33:37.:33:38.

agencies said was that there would agencies said was that there would

:33:38.:33:38.

be a further downgrade if they saw be a further downgrade if they saw

:33:38.:33:40.

any weakening of political any weakening of political

:33:40.:33:42.

any weakening of political commitment to our overall target of

:33:42.:33:44.

commitment to our overall target of commitment to our overall target of

:33:44.:33:45.

the school consolidation. Whether it the school consolidation. Whether it

:33:45.:33:46.

the school consolidation. Whether it is Ed Miliband or a conservative

:33:46.:33:47.

is Ed Miliband or a conservative is Ed Miliband or a conservative

:33:47.:33:50.

adventure or a LibDem Cabinet adventure or a LibDem Cabinet

:33:50.:33:53.

adventure or a LibDem Cabinet adventure or a LibDem Cabinet

:33:53.:33:54.

minister, it is dangerous to say we minister, it is dangerous to say we

:33:54.:33:54.

minister, it is dangerous to say we minister, it is dangerous to say we

:33:54.:33:56.

minister, it is dangerous to say we are going to go off our plan. We are

:33:56.:33:57.

are going to go off our plan. We are are going to go off our plan. We are

:33:57.:33:59.

are going to go off our plan. We are not going to go off plan. The prime

:33:59.:34:00.

not going to go off plan. The prime not going to go off plan. The prime

:34:00.:34:01.

ministers said we are sticking to ministers said we are sticking to

:34:01.:34:02.

ministers said we are sticking to ministers said we are sticking to

:34:02.:34:06.

the plan, and that applies to the the plan, and that applies to the

:34:06.:34:07.

the plan, and that applies to the whole Cabinet. You should not be

:34:07.:34:09.

whole Cabinet. You should not be whole Cabinet. You should not be

:34:09.:34:10.

criticising your boss. There is only criticising your boss. There is only

:34:10.:34:13.

criticising your boss. There is only one boss here, the Prime Minister.

:34:13.:34:17.

one boss here, the Prime Minister. one boss here, the Prime Minister.

:34:17.:34:18.

one boss here, the Prime Minister. There is a coalition. There is only

:34:18.:34:19.

There is a coalition. There is only There is a coalition. There is only

:34:19.:34:21.

one economic boss. There is one one economic boss. There is one

:34:21.:34:22.

one economic boss. There is one chancellor, and there is one plant.

:34:22.:34:23.

chancellor, and there is one plant. chancellor, and there is one plant.

:34:23.:34:24.

chancellor, and there is one plant. That is where you are wrong. Am I

:34:25.:34:25.

That is where you are wrong. Am I That is where you are wrong. Am I

:34:25.:34:27.

allowed to say something? Let's look allowed to say something? Let's look

:34:27.:34:29.

allowed to say something? Let's look allowed to say something? Let's look

:34:29.:34:30.

at the banks, which is the key thing at the banks, which is the key thing

:34:30.:34:30.

at the banks, which is the key thing where you are doing very well,

:34:30.:34:33.

where you are doing very well, where you are doing very well,

:34:33.:34:34.

Michael, but there is a joint Michael, but there is a joint

:34:34.:34:38.

responsibility between the responsibility between the

:34:38.:34:38.

responsibility between the Treasury, George Osborne and Vince

:34:38.:34:43.

Treasury, George Osborne and Vince Treasury, George Osborne and Vince

:34:43.:34:44.

Treasury, George Osborne and Vince Cable. The governor is right that it

:34:44.:34:45.

Cable. The governor is right that it Cable. The governor is right that it

:34:45.:34:46.

Cable. The governor is right that it is a nonsense to carry on pretending

:34:46.:34:47.

is a nonsense to carry on pretending is a nonsense to carry on pretending

:34:47.:34:48.

is a nonsense to carry on pretending that RBS is at arm's-length. It is

:34:48.:34:49.

that RBS is at arm's-length. It is that RBS is at arm's-length. It is

:34:49.:34:50.

that RBS is at arm's-length. It is not true to say that only George

:34:50.:34:50.

not true to say that only George not true to say that only George

:34:50.:34:53.

Osborne is in charge of economic Osborne is in charge of economic

:34:53.:34:54.

Osborne is in charge of economic Osborne is in charge of economic

:34:54.:34:56.

Lizzie. It is a balance and a Lizzie. It is a balance and a

:34:56.:34:56.

Lizzie. It is a balance and a coalition. Michael Fallon, when you

:34:56.:34:57.

coalition. Michael Fallon, when you coalition. Michael Fallon, when you

:34:57.:34:59.

coalition. Michael Fallon, when you say we are sticking to the plan, can

:34:59.:35:00.

say we are sticking to the plan, can say we are sticking to the plan, can

:35:00.:35:01.

say we are sticking to the plan, can say we are sticking to the plan, can

:35:01.:35:02.

I just point out to you that as of I just point out to you that as of

:35:02.:35:04.

I just point out to you that as of the autumn statement, you will now

:35:04.:35:07.

the autumn statement, you will now the autumn statement, you will now

:35:07.:35:08.

the autumn statement, you will now or 210 �11 more than you planned to

:35:08.:35:10.

or 210 �11 more than you planned to or 210 �11 more than you planned to

:35:10.:35:11.

or 210 �11 more than you planned to borrow in 2010 will stop so you are

:35:11.:35:13.

borrow in 2010 will stop so you are borrow in 2010 will stop so you are

:35:13.:35:14.

borrow in 2010 will stop so you are already off the plan? You know we

:35:14.:35:15.

already off the plan? You know we already off the plan? You know we

:35:15.:35:17.

have had high inflation and high have had high inflation and high

:35:17.:35:18.

have had high inflation and high commodity prices. You know about the

:35:18.:35:21.

commodity prices. You know about the commodity prices. You know about the

:35:21.:35:22.

problems in the Eurozone. So the problems in the Eurozone. So the

:35:22.:35:23.

problems in the Eurozone. So the problems in the Eurozone. So the

:35:23.:35:23.

answer to that can't be to borrow answer to that can't be to borrow

:35:23.:35:24.

answer to that can't be to borrow answer to that can't be to borrow

:35:24.:35:27.

even more. We have to stick to the even more. We have to stick to the

:35:27.:35:28.

even more. We have to stick to the even more. We have to stick to the

:35:28.:35:29.

plan and ensure that we are meeting plan and ensure that we are meeting

:35:29.:35:30.

plan and ensure that we are meeting our overall target of getting taxes

:35:30.:35:32.

our overall target of getting taxes our overall target of getting taxes

:35:32.:35:33.

and spending into line. You can't and spending into line. You can't

:35:33.:35:35.

and spending into line. You can't have two macro policies about this.

:35:35.:35:36.

have two macro policies about this. have two macro policies about this.

:35:36.:35:37.

have two macro policies about this. There is only one policy, and we are

:35:37.:35:38.

There is only one policy, and we are There is only one policy, and we are

:35:38.:35:39.

There is only one policy, and we are all committed to it. At when the

:35:39.:35:40.

all committed to it. At when the all committed to it. At when the

:35:40.:35:41.

all committed to it. At when the policy is not working, you then move

:35:41.:35:42.

policy is not working, you then move policy is not working, you then move

:35:42.:35:44.

policy is not working, you then move it on and make it bolder. You

:35:44.:35:45.

it on and make it bolder. You it on and make it bolder. You

:35:45.:35:47.

it on and make it bolder. You yourself have said we are doing five

:35:47.:35:48.

yourself have said we are doing five billion of infrastructure

:35:48.:35:49.

billion of infrastructure billion of infrastructure

:35:49.:35:50.

guarantees. Let's do more on guarantees. Let's do more on

:35:50.:35:52.

guarantees. Let's do more on guarantees. Let's do more on

:35:52.:35:52.

housing, which is where the jobs are housing, which is where the jobs are

:35:52.:35:54.

housing, which is where the jobs are to stop otherwise, the economy is

:35:54.:35:54.

to stop otherwise, the economy is to stop otherwise, the economy is

:35:54.:35:56.

to stop otherwise, the economy is flat and the deficit is going up.

:35:56.:35:58.

flat and the deficit is going up. flat and the deficit is going up.

:35:58.:35:59.

flat and the deficit is going up. The economy is not flat. The GDP

:35:59.:36:02.

The economy is not flat. The GDP The economy is not flat. The GDP

:36:02.:36:02.

figures are flat. Look at the figures are flat. Look at the

:36:02.:36:03.

figures are flat. Look at the facts. The prime minister made clear

:36:03.:36:04.

facts. The prime minister made clear facts. The prime minister made clear

:36:04.:36:05.

this morning that the plan is this morning that the plan is

:36:05.:36:07.

this morning that the plan is this morning that the plan is

:36:07.:36:08.

beginning to work. We have seen 1 beginning to work. We have seen 1

:36:08.:36:11.

beginning to work. We have seen 1 million more private sector jobs

:36:11.:36:16.

million more private sector jobs million more private sector jobs

:36:16.:36:18.

million more private sector jobs created. Whose side are you on? I am

:36:18.:36:20.

created. Whose side are you on? I am created. Whose side are you on? I am

:36:20.:36:21.

on the side of the Liberal on the side of the Liberal

:36:21.:36:22.

on the side of the Liberal Democrats. Stop smearing us and lets

:36:22.:36:23.

Democrats. Stop smearing us and lets Democrats. Stop smearing us and lets

:36:23.:36:24.

Democrats. Stop smearing us and lets look at the facts. We have seen a

:36:24.:36:26.

look at the facts. We have seen a look at the facts. We have seen a

:36:26.:36:26.

big increase in private sector big increase in private sector

:36:26.:36:27.

big increase in private sector jobs. We have seen more confidence

:36:27.:36:30.

jobs. We have seen more confidence jobs. We have seen more confidence

:36:30.:36:32.

in Britain as a destination for in Britain as a destination for

:36:32.:36:33.

in Britain as a destination for investment. We have seen exports

:36:33.:36:33.

investment. We have seen exports investment. We have seen exports

:36:33.:36:36.

increased some of emerging markets. increased some of emerging markets.

:36:36.:36:39.

increased some of emerging markets. Michael, let me say something. Just

:36:39.:36:44.

Michael, let me say something. Just Michael, let me say something. Just

:36:44.:36:44.

Michael, let me say something. Just a minute. We are trading with places

:36:44.:36:50.

a minute. We are trading with places a minute. We are trading with places

:36:50.:36:51.

like China, Brazil, India. The proud like China, Brazil, India. The proud

:36:51.:36:52.

like China, Brazil, India. The proud and thereby minister says about our

:36:52.:36:54.

and thereby minister says about our and thereby minister says about our

:36:54.:36:55.

exports, do you know that our exports, do you know that our

:36:55.:36:56.

exports, do you know that our exports to all those countries don't

:36:56.:36:57.

exports to all those countries don't exports to all those countries don't

:36:57.:36:58.

exports to all those countries don't even add up to as much as re-export

:36:58.:36:59.

even add up to as much as re-export even add up to as much as re-export

:36:59.:36:59.

even add up to as much as re-export to Ireland? You are starting from a

:36:59.:37:03.

to Ireland? You are starting from a to Ireland? You are starting from a

:37:03.:37:04.

to Ireland? You are starting from a very small base. I did not want to

:37:04.:37:05.

very small base. I did not want to very small base. I did not want to

:37:05.:37:06.

very small base. I did not want to bring Alan Johnson in because he is

:37:06.:37:07.

bring Alan Johnson in because he is bring Alan Johnson in because he is

:37:07.:37:08.

bring Alan Johnson in because he is a polite chap and does not like to

:37:08.:37:14.

a polite chap and does not like to a polite chap and does not like to

:37:14.:37:16.

a polite chap and does not like to intrude. But can I just say that

:37:16.:37:17.

intrude. But can I just say that intrude. But can I just say that

:37:17.:37:20.

when you listen to Matthew Oakeshott when you listen to Matthew Oakeshott

:37:20.:37:22.

when you listen to Matthew Oakeshott when you listen to Matthew Oakeshott

:37:22.:37:22.

and you read Vince Cable's essay in and you read Vince Cable's essay in

:37:22.:37:23.

and you read Vince Cable's essay in the new statesman today, it would

:37:23.:37:25.

the new statesman today, it would the new statesman today, it would

:37:25.:37:26.

the new statesman today, it would seem to me that both are closer to

:37:26.:37:27.

seem to me that both are closer to seem to me that both are closer to

:37:27.:37:28.

seem to me that both are closer to you and Mister balls than to Mister

:37:28.:37:31.

you and Mister balls than to Mister you and Mister balls than to Mister

:37:31.:37:32.

Fallon. As they were before the Fallon. As they were before the

:37:32.:37:38.

Fallon. As they were before the election in 2010. Vince carries into

:37:38.:37:39.

election in 2010. Vince carries into election in 2010. Vince carries into

:37:39.:37:40.

this government a bit of credibility this government a bit of credibility

:37:40.:37:42.

this government a bit of credibility on the economy that Osborne never

:37:42.:37:43.

on the economy that Osborne never on the economy that Osborne never

:37:43.:37:44.

had in opposition and certainly has had in opposition and certainly has

:37:44.:37:47.

had in opposition and certainly has had in opposition and certainly has

:37:47.:37:48.

not got now. There was an important not got now. There was an important

:37:48.:37:52.

not got now. There was an important report by Michael Heseltine, no

:37:52.:37:53.

report by Michael Heseltine, no stone unturned, about infrastructure

:37:53.:37:56.

stone unturned, about infrastructure stone unturned, about infrastructure

:37:56.:37:57.

and investment. Michael is making, and investment. Michael is making,

:37:57.:38:00.

and investment. Michael is making, in polite terms, the same argument.

:38:00.:38:01.

in polite terms, the same argument. in polite terms, the same argument.

:38:01.:38:02.

in polite terms, the same argument. There is no better time to invest in

:38:02.:38:04.

There is no better time to invest in There is no better time to invest in

:38:04.:38:04.

the infrastructure than now will the infrastructure than now will

:38:04.:38:05.

the infrastructure than now will the infrastructure than now will

:38:05.:38:06.

stop you have to do it at some stop you have to do it at some

:38:06.:38:07.

stop you have to do it at some stop you have to do it at some

:38:07.:38:09.

stage, and this is the best time. stage, and this is the best time.

:38:09.:38:10.

stage, and this is the best time. it looking good for the coalition

:38:10.:38:20.
:38:20.:38:20.

it looking good for the coalition it looking good for the coalition

:38:20.:38:21.

talks posed 2015? Labour are too talks posed 2015? Labour are too

:38:21.:38:29.

talks posed 2015? Labour are too timid. You are all right, Alan.

:38:29.:38:30.

timid. You are all right, Alan. timid. You are all right, Alan.

:38:30.:38:30.

timid. You are all right, Alan. Anyway, we thank you both for a

:38:30.:38:33.

much. much.

:38:33.:38:35.

much. much.

:38:35.:38:37.

Now, today is a big birthday for Now, today is a big birthday for

:38:37.:38:38.

Now, today is a big birthday for interest rates. Giles can explain

:38:38.:38:42.

more. more.

:38:42.:38:43.

more. Four years ago today, interest rates

:38:43.:38:46.

Four years ago today, interest rates Four years ago today, interest rates

:38:46.:38:46.

Four years ago today, interest rates went down to 0.5% and there they

:38:46.:38:49.

went down to 0.5% and there they went down to 0.5% and there they

:38:49.:38:50.

have stayed ever since. Many happy have stayed ever since. Many happy

:38:50.:38:51.

have stayed ever since. Many happy returns from everyone at the Daily

:38:51.:38:54.

returns from everyone at the Daily returns from everyone at the Daily

:38:54.:38:55.

Politics. If you have been borrowing Politics. If you have been borrowing

:38:55.:38:57.

Politics. If you have been borrowing Politics. If you have been borrowing

:38:57.:38:57.

money, like the millions of us with money, like the millions of us with

:38:57.:38:58.

money, like the millions of us with mortgages, that has been very good

:38:58.:39:00.

mortgages, that has been very good mortgages, that has been very good

:39:00.:39:01.

mortgages, that has been very good news. But this will not be a

:39:01.:39:02.

news. But this will not be a news. But this will not be a

:39:02.:39:03.

birthday that is celebrated by birthday that is celebrated by

:39:03.:39:05.

birthday that is celebrated by birthday that is celebrated by

:39:05.:39:06.

savers. They have seen the value of savers. They have seen the value of

:39:06.:39:07.

savers. They have seen the value of their savings in road by inflation,

:39:07.:39:08.

their savings in road by inflation, their savings in road by inflation,

:39:08.:39:09.

fax to be pitiful interest rates fax to be pitiful interest rates

:39:09.:39:11.

fax to be pitiful interest rates offered by the banks. With the

:39:11.:39:12.

offered by the banks. With the offered by the banks. With the

:39:12.:39:13.

offered by the banks. With the economy in the doldrums, it does not

:39:13.:39:14.

economy in the doldrums, it does not economy in the doldrums, it does not

:39:14.:39:14.

economy in the doldrums, it does not look like they are going to go up

:39:14.:39:15.

look like they are going to go up look like they are going to go up

:39:15.:39:18.

any time soon, quite the opposite. any time soon, quite the opposite.

:39:18.:39:19.

any time soon, quite the opposite. any time soon, quite the opposite.

:39:19.:39:22.

Last week come as a deputy governor Last week come as a deputy governor

:39:22.:39:24.

Last week come as a deputy governor Last week come as a deputy governor

:39:24.:39:24.

of England told MPs the bank was of England told MPs the bank was

:39:24.:39:25.

considering negative interest rates, considering negative interest rates,

:39:25.:39:26.

considering negative interest rates, even though it was an extraordinary

:39:26.:39:28.

even though it was an extraordinary even though it was an extraordinary

:39:28.:39:29.

even though it was an extraordinary thing to do that needs to be thought

:39:29.:39:31.

thing to do that needs to be thought thing to do that needs to be thought

:39:31.:39:31.

through carefully. What does that through carefully. What does that

:39:31.:39:33.

through carefully. What does that through carefully. What does that

:39:33.:39:33.

mean? It does not mean you will get mean? It does not mean you will get

:39:33.:39:36.

mean? It does not mean you will get mean? It does not mean you will get

:39:36.:39:37.

your mortgage for free, and you will your mortgage for free, and you will

:39:37.:39:39.

your mortgage for free, and you will your mortgage for free, and you will

:39:39.:39:41.

still have to pay any. It does mean still have to pay any. It does mean

:39:41.:39:42.

still have to pay any. It does mean still have to pay any. It does mean

:39:42.:39:43.

that the Bank of England will charge that the Bank of England will charge

:39:43.:39:45.

that the Bank of England will charge other banks to deposit money with

:39:45.:39:46.

other banks to deposit money with other banks to deposit money with

:39:46.:39:47.

other banks to deposit money with it, an idea already tried in Sweden

:39:47.:39:50.

it, an idea already tried in Sweden it, an idea already tried in Sweden

:39:50.:39:51.

it, an idea already tried in Sweden and Denmark. The idea is to make it

:39:51.:39:52.

and Denmark. The idea is to make it and Denmark. The idea is to make it

:39:52.:39:52.

so unattractive for banks to so unattractive for banks to

:39:52.:39:54.

so unattractive for banks to stockpile cashed that they want to

:39:54.:39:55.

stockpile cashed that they want to stockpile cashed that they want to

:39:55.:39:56.

lend them money to businesses and lend them money to businesses and

:39:56.:39:57.

lend them money to businesses and maybe even me to kickstart the

:39:57.:40:01.

economy. economy.

:40:01.:40:03.

economy. economy.

:40:03.:40:06.

With us now is Ann Pettifor from With us now is Ann Pettifor from

:40:06.:40:07.

With us now is Ann Pettifor from prime economics and Julie Meyer,

:40:07.:40:07.

prime economics and Julie Meyer, prime economics and Julie Meyer,

:40:07.:40:12.

chief executive of Ariadne Capital chief executive of Ariadne Capital

:40:12.:40:13.

chief executive of Ariadne Capital chief executive of Ariadne Capital

:40:13.:40:13.

Fund. If we borrow more, do interest Fund. If we borrow more, do interest

:40:13.:40:15.

Fund. If we borrow more, do interest Fund. If we borrow more, do interest

:40:15.:40:18.

rates go up? Is it as simple as rates go up? Is it as simple as

:40:18.:40:19.

rates go up? Is it as simple as rates go up? Is it as simple as

:40:19.:40:20.

that? It is much more complex. That that? It is much more complex. That

:40:20.:40:21.

that? It is much more complex. That that? It is much more complex. That

:40:21.:40:23.

is one of the problems with just is one of the problems with just

:40:23.:40:24.

is one of the problems with just isolating out interest rates within

:40:24.:40:28.

isolating out interest rates within isolating out interest rates within

:40:28.:40:28.

isolating out interest rates within a complex system. You have to look

:40:28.:40:29.

a complex system. You have to look a complex system. You have to look

:40:29.:40:33.

at tax policy and the overall at tax policy and the overall

:40:33.:40:34.

at tax policy and the overall environment. The government has said

:40:34.:40:36.

environment. The government has said environment. The government has said

:40:36.:40:37.

environment. The government has said we have had these record lows in

:40:37.:40:37.

we have had these record lows in we have had these record lows in

:40:37.:40:39.

we have had these record lows in terms of interest rates. One of the

:40:39.:40:40.

terms of interest rates. One of the terms of interest rates. One of the

:40:40.:40:42.

problems of borrowing more is that problems of borrowing more is that

:40:42.:40:45.

problems of borrowing more is that interest payments will go up.

:40:45.:40:47.

interest payments will go up. interest payments will go up.

:40:47.:40:47.

interest payments will go up. that true? I don't think it is,

:40:47.:40:48.

that true? I don't think it is, that true? I don't think it is,

:40:48.:40:49.

because the Bank of England is because the Bank of England is

:40:49.:40:50.

because the Bank of England is because the Bank of England is

:40:50.:40:53.

setting the policy rate at which the setting the policy rate at which the

:40:53.:40:53.

setting the policy rate at which the government borrows. And it has the

:40:53.:40:54.

government borrows. And it has the government borrows. And it has the

:40:54.:40:58.

government borrows. And it has the power to raise them or lower than.

:40:58.:40:59.

power to raise them or lower than. power to raise them or lower than.

:40:59.:40:59.

power to raise them or lower than. In a crisis, the Bank of England

:41:00.:41:04.

In a crisis, the Bank of England In a crisis, the Bank of England

:41:04.:41:05.

lowered them very dramatically. lowered them very dramatically.

:41:05.:41:06.

lowered them very dramatically. lowered them very dramatically.

:41:06.:41:12.

they are set by the market. No, it they are set by the market. No, it

:41:12.:41:15.

they are set by the market. No, it is not. Effectively, the rate is

:41:15.:41:15.

is not. Effectively, the rate is is not. Effectively, the rate is

:41:15.:41:18.

is not. Effectively, the rate is very low because it is not the wand

:41:18.:41:23.

very low because it is not the wand very low because it is not the wand

:41:23.:41:23.

vigilantes... The bank is buying vigilantes... The bank is buying

:41:23.:41:27.

vigilantes... The bank is buying itself all the government bond is.

:41:27.:41:28.

itself all the government bond is. The government is effectively

:41:28.:41:29.

The government is effectively The government is effectively

:41:29.:41:31.

borrowing from its own bank. There borrowing from its own bank. There

:41:31.:41:31.

borrowing from its own bank. There borrowing from its own bank. There

:41:31.:41:33.

was for a couple of months ago when was for a couple of months ago when

:41:33.:41:34.

was for a couple of months ago when was for a couple of months ago when

:41:34.:41:35.

they took the profits from that and they took the profits from that and

:41:35.:41:36.

they took the profits from that and put it back onto the Treasury

:41:36.:41:37.

put it back onto the Treasury put it back onto the Treasury

:41:37.:41:39.

balance sheet. I not upset about balance sheet. I not upset about

:41:39.:41:40.

balance sheet. I not upset about that because it is the government's

:41:40.:41:47.

that because it is the government's that because it is the government's

:41:47.:41:51.

bank. There are many objectives. We bank. There are many objectives. We

:41:51.:41:54.

bank. There are many objectives. We bank. There are many objectives. We

:41:54.:41:55.

see the profits. There are so many see the profits. There are so many

:41:55.:41:56.

see the profits. There are so many see the profits. There are so many

:41:56.:41:57.

things they are trying to do will things they are trying to do will

:41:57.:41:58.

things they are trying to do will stop from the small business and

:41:58.:42:01.

stop from the small business and technology sector, it is

:42:01.:42:02.

technology sector, it is technology sector, it is

:42:02.:42:03.

frustrating. So many people are frustrating. So many people are

:42:03.:42:05.

frustrating. So many people are frustrating. So many people are

:42:05.:42:06.

trying to get lending to them, but trying to get lending to them, but

:42:06.:42:07.

trying to get lending to them, but trying to get lending to them, but

:42:07.:42:08.

how about just early payment of a how about just early payment of a

:42:08.:42:09.

how about just early payment of a lot of their early suppliers? Why

:42:09.:42:11.

lot of their early suppliers? Why lot of their early suppliers? Why

:42:11.:42:12.

lot of their early suppliers? Why not try and get more liquidity, as

:42:12.:42:13.

not try and get more liquidity, as not try and get more liquidity, as

:42:13.:42:15.

opposed to getting lending going. If opposed to getting lending going. If

:42:15.:42:17.

opposed to getting lending going. If rates are low, banks do not

:42:17.:42:18.

rates are low, banks do not rates are low, banks do not

:42:18.:42:23.

necessarily have an incentive to necessarily have an incentive to

:42:23.:42:24.

necessarily have an incentive to necessarily have an incentive to

:42:24.:42:25.

lend. But the bank has no control lend. But the bank has no control

:42:25.:42:27.

lend. But the bank has no control over what private banks are lending.

:42:27.:42:32.

over what private banks are lending. over what private banks are lending.

:42:32.:42:33.

Private banks might be borrowing at Private banks might be borrowing at

:42:33.:42:34.

Private banks might be borrowing at Private banks might be borrowing at

:42:34.:42:34.

0.5% and lending at 10%. Or not 0.5% and lending at 10%. Or not

:42:34.:42:40.

0.5% and lending at 10%. Or not lending at all. But small businesses

:42:40.:42:40.

lending at all. But small businesses lending at all. But small businesses

:42:40.:42:41.

lending at all. But small businesses are often offered a loan for an

:42:41.:42:43.

are often offered a loan for an are often offered a loan for an

:42:43.:42:44.

are often offered a loan for an overdraft at 10%. But that is a huge

:42:44.:42:46.

overdraft at 10%. But that is a huge overdraft at 10%. But that is a huge

:42:46.:42:47.

amount of money. So the spread amount of money. So the spread

:42:47.:42:48.

amount of money. So the spread between what the banks are borrowing

:42:48.:42:50.

between what the banks are borrowing between what the banks are borrowing

:42:50.:42:50.

between what the banks are borrowing at and what they are lending act is

:42:50.:42:54.

at and what they are lending act is at and what they are lending act is

:42:54.:42:55.

outrageous. The austerity plan which outrageous. The austerity plan which

:42:55.:42:56.

outrageous. The austerity plan which outrageous. The austerity plan which

:42:56.:42:57.

they will not deviate from, it is they will not deviate from, it is

:42:57.:42:58.

they will not deviate from, it is they will not deviate from, it is

:42:58.:43:01.

half a plan, not a full plan. We half a plan, not a full plan. We

:43:01.:43:04.

half a plan, not a full plan. We will regain our triple-A credit

:43:04.:43:05.

will regain our triple-A credit will regain our triple-A credit

:43:05.:43:06.

will regain our triple-A credit rating, but it will not be on the

:43:06.:43:07.

rating, but it will not be on the rating, but it will not be on the

:43:07.:43:07.

bank of anything the government bank of anything the government

:43:07.:43:09.

bank of anything the government bank of anything the government

:43:09.:43:09.

bank of anything the government does. It will be on the back of the

:43:09.:43:10.

does. It will be on the back of the entrepreneurs who rebuild the

:43:10.:43:12.

entrepreneurs who rebuild the entrepreneurs who rebuild the

:43:12.:43:13.

economy. You should have more economy. You should have more

:43:13.:43:13.

economy. You should have more entrepreneurs on your show and ask

:43:13.:43:14.

entrepreneurs on your show and ask entrepreneurs on your show and ask

:43:14.:43:15.

entrepreneurs on your show and ask them what they want in order to do

:43:15.:43:21.

them what they want in order to do them what they want in order to do

:43:21.:43:23.

that. Their biggest fixed cost goes that. Their biggest fixed cost goes

:43:23.:43:26.

that. Their biggest fixed cost goes to the government. Let's eliminate

:43:26.:43:27.

to the government. Let's eliminate to the government. Let's eliminate

:43:27.:43:34.

taxes on businesses like national taxes on businesses like national

:43:34.:43:35.

taxes on businesses like national insurance. Small businesses who have

:43:35.:43:35.

insurance. Small businesses who have insurance. Small businesses who have

:43:35.:43:36.

come on here have said quantitative come on here have said quantitative

:43:36.:43:44.

come on here have said quantitative come on here have said quantitative

:43:44.:43:45.

easing has not worked for them. easing has not worked for them.

:43:45.:43:47.

easing has not worked for them. struggle to understand why we want

:43:47.:43:50.

struggle to understand why we want struggle to understand why we want

:43:50.:43:51.

the government to play this the government to play this

:43:51.:43:52.

the government to play this increased role. We want the economy

:43:52.:43:53.

increased role. We want the economy increased role. We want the economy

:43:53.:43:58.

to shift towards the entrepreneurs. to shift towards the entrepreneurs.

:43:58.:43:59.

to shift towards the entrepreneurs. The economy can't grow and

:43:59.:44:00.

The economy can't grow and The economy can't grow and

:44:00.:44:00.

businesses can't invest. They need businesses can't invest. They need

:44:00.:44:08.

businesses can't invest. They need businesses can't invest. They need

:44:08.:44:09.

to borrow to take risks. It is not to borrow to take risks. It is not

:44:09.:44:11.

to borrow to take risks. It is not to borrow to take risks. It is not

:44:11.:44:12.

enough to keep the bank rate loan, enough to keep the bank rate loan,

:44:12.:44:13.

enough to keep the bank rate loan, enough to keep the bank rate loan,

:44:13.:44:14.

it is important to get the private it is important to get the private

:44:14.:44:15.

it is important to get the private it is important to get the private

:44:15.:44:16.

banks to lower their rates, and we banks to lower their rates, and we

:44:16.:44:17.

banks to lower their rates, and we banks to lower their rates, and we

:44:17.:44:18.

have no control over that, not even have no control over that, not even

:44:18.:44:19.

have no control over that, not even have no control over that, not even

:44:19.:44:22.

the ones we own, like RBS. If you the ones we own, like RBS. If you

:44:22.:44:23.

the ones we own, like RBS. If you can borrow in favourable ways, that

:44:23.:44:25.

can borrow in favourable ways, that can borrow in favourable ways, that

:44:25.:44:26.

can borrow in favourable ways, that can borrow in favourable ways, that

:44:26.:44:27.

can borrow in favourable ways, that is a win, but it is also a win to be

:44:27.:44:27.

is a win, but it is also a win to be is a win, but it is also a win to be

:44:28.:44:31.

is a win, but it is also a win to be able to keep more of your own money.

:44:31.:44:32.

able to keep more of your own money. able to keep more of your own money.

:44:32.:44:33.

able to keep more of your own money. able to keep more of your own money.

:44:33.:44:34.

If I can keep my money as opposed to If I can keep my money as opposed to

:44:34.:44:36.

If I can keep my money as opposed to paying the biggest fixed costs to

:44:36.:44:37.

paying the biggest fixed costs to paying the biggest fixed costs to

:44:37.:44:38.

paying the biggest fixed costs to government, I can also invest in my

:44:38.:44:39.

government, I can also invest in my government, I can also invest in my

:44:39.:44:41.

business. There are different ways business. There are different ways

:44:41.:44:42.

business. There are different ways business. There are different ways

:44:42.:44:43.

to give capital to a business or a to give capital to a business or a

:44:43.:44:44.

to give capital to a business or a to give capital to a business or a

:44:44.:44:44.

person. One of them is to let them person. One of them is to let them

:44:44.:44:54.
:44:54.:45:02.

I worry about how much tax I have I worry about how much tax I have

:45:02.:45:04.

I worry about how much tax I have to pay. I worry about customers

:45:04.:45:06.

to pay. I worry about customers to pay. I worry about customers

:45:06.:45:07.

coming through the door. They coming through the door. They

:45:07.:45:10.

coming through the door. They cannot pay the taxes to make

:45:10.:45:12.

cannot pay the taxes to make profits without economic activity.

:45:12.:45:15.

profits without economic activity. profits without economic activity.

:45:15.:45:16.

The Chancellor is determined to The Chancellor is determined to

:45:16.:45:19.

shrink economic activity. Borrowing shrink economic activity. Borrowing

:45:19.:45:21.

shrink economic activity. Borrowing shrink economic activity. Borrowing

:45:21.:45:22.

more is not the way forward as so more is not the way forward as so

:45:22.:45:22.

more is not the way forward as so more is not the way forward as so

:45:22.:45:24.

many people have come on to say, many people have come on to say,

:45:24.:45:25.

many people have come on to say, because that would lead to more

:45:25.:45:28.

because that would lead to more because that would lead to more

:45:28.:45:29.

debt? I disagreed. The point is debt? I disagreed. The point is

:45:29.:45:31.

debt? I disagreed. The point is this, the Government is not a

:45:31.:45:32.

this, the Government is not a this, the Government is not a

:45:32.:45:35.

growing income. The reason we are growing income. The reason we are

:45:35.:45:36.

growing income. The reason we are not paying enough in tax revenues

:45:36.:45:37.

not paying enough in tax revenues not paying enough in tax revenues

:45:37.:45:37.

not paying enough in tax revenues is we are not making enough profits

:45:37.:45:40.

is we are not making enough profits is we are not making enough profits

:45:40.:45:41.

to pay taxes. It the Government to pay taxes. It the Government

:45:41.:45:42.

to pay taxes. It the Government to pay taxes. It the Government

:45:42.:45:43.

to pay taxes. It the Government wants us to pay them more - which I

:45:43.:45:48.

wants us to pay them more - which I wants us to pay them more - which I

:45:48.:45:48.

wants us to pay them more - which I am not against, you have to earn

:45:48.:45:50.

am not against, you have to earn am not against, you have to earn

:45:50.:45:52.

am not against, you have to earn more. We have to lose weight as a

:45:52.:45:53.

more. We have to lose weight as a more. We have to lose weight as a

:45:53.:45:55.

country to run faster. We are country to run faster. We are

:45:55.:45:56.

country to run faster. We are producing this collective thing you

:45:56.:45:57.

producing this collective thing you producing this collective thing you

:45:57.:45:58.

producing this collective thing you producing this collective thing you

:45:58.:45:59.

have to do. I am going to stop you, have to do. I am going to stop you,

:45:59.:46:00.

have to do. I am going to stop you, have to do. I am going to stop you,

:46:00.:46:01.

but we will have you and again to but we will have you and again to

:46:01.:46:05.

but we will have you and again to but we will have you and again to

:46:05.:46:05.

fight it on another day. Now, I fight it on another day. Now, I

:46:05.:46:06.

fight it on another day. Now, I don't suppose there are many things

:46:06.:46:07.

don't suppose there are many things don't suppose there are many things

:46:07.:46:08.

don't suppose there are many things Alan Johnson and Tory MPs agree on,

:46:08.:46:09.

Alan Johnson and Tory MPs agree on, Alan Johnson and Tory MPs agree on,

:46:09.:46:11.

especially when it comes to tax. especially when it comes to tax.

:46:11.:46:14.

especially when it comes to tax. especially when it comes to tax.

:46:14.:46:15.

But what about tax bands? It was But what about tax bands? It was

:46:15.:46:16.

But what about tax bands? It was Alan's former leader Gordon Brown

:46:16.:46:17.

Alan's former leader Gordon Brown Alan's former leader Gordon Brown

:46:17.:46:18.

Alan's former leader Gordon Brown who brought in a 10p tax rate in

:46:18.:46:19.

who brought in a 10p tax rate in who brought in a 10p tax rate in

:46:19.:46:20.

who brought in a 10p tax rate in 1999. Then in 2008 he scrapped it

:46:20.:46:22.

1999. Then in 2008 he scrapped it 1999. Then in 2008 he scrapped it

:46:22.:46:22.

again. Some chart Labour's failure again. Some chart Labour's failure

:46:22.:46:23.

again. Some chart Labour's failure again. Some chart Labour's failure

:46:23.:46:24.

to win in 2010 back to that to win in 2010 back to that

:46:24.:46:25.

to win in 2010 back to that to win in 2010 back to that

:46:25.:46:26.

decision and how it went down with decision and how it went down with

:46:26.:46:31.

decision and how it went down with low-paid workers - not very well.

:46:31.:46:32.

low-paid workers - not very well. low-paid workers - not very well.

:46:32.:46:33.

Well, Ed Miliband now says Gordon Well, Ed Miliband now says Gordon

:46:33.:46:34.

Well, Ed Miliband now says Gordon Well, Ed Miliband now says Gordon

:46:34.:46:35.

Brown was wrong and wants to bring Brown was wrong and wants to bring

:46:35.:46:38.

Brown was wrong and wants to bring Brown was wrong and wants to bring

:46:38.:46:39.

back the 10p rate. And at least one back the 10p rate. And at least one

:46:39.:46:49.
:46:49.:47:04.

back the 10p rate. And at least one # I got my income tax this morning.

:47:05.:47:06.

# I got my income tax this morning. # I got my income tax this morning.

:47:06.:47:07.

# I got my income tax this morning. I believe in lower taxes, but we

:47:07.:47:08.

I believe in lower taxes, but we I believe in lower taxes, but we

:47:08.:47:11.

need them for everyone, not just need them for everyone, not just

:47:11.:47:12.

need them for everyone, not just need them for everyone, not just

:47:12.:47:13.

the wealthy. That is why I am the wealthy. That is why I am

:47:13.:47:14.

the wealthy. That is why I am urging the Prime Minister and

:47:14.:47:17.

urging the Prime Minister and urging the Prime Minister and

:47:17.:47:17.

George Osborne to reintroduce the George Osborne to reintroduce the

:47:17.:47:20.

George Osborne to reintroduce the George Osborne to reintroduce the

:47:20.:47:20.

10 pence income tax rate. It was 10 pence income tax rate. It was

:47:20.:47:22.

10 pence income tax rate. It was Gordon Brown who abolished the 10

:47:22.:47:24.

Gordon Brown who abolished the 10 Gordon Brown who abolished the 10

:47:24.:47:25.

pens tax rate costing low-income pens tax rate costing low-income

:47:25.:47:27.

pens tax rate costing low-income workers hundreds of pounds owed the

:47:27.:47:29.

workers hundreds of pounds owed the workers hundreds of pounds owed the

:47:29.:47:30.

year. Overnight their tax rate went year. Overnight their tax rate went

:47:30.:47:32.

year. Overnight their tax rate went year. Overnight their tax rate went

:47:32.:47:32.

year. Overnight their tax rate went up from 10p to 20 pence in the pan.

:47:32.:47:33.

up from 10p to 20 pence in the pan. up from 10p to 20 pence in the pan.

:47:33.:47:37.

up from 10p to 20 pence in the pan. We have to reverse that. If we

:47:37.:47:38.

We have to reverse that. If we We have to reverse that. If we

:47:38.:47:39.

We have to reverse that. If we introduce the 10p tax band up to

:47:39.:47:42.

introduce the 10p tax band up to introduce the 10p tax band up to

:47:42.:47:43.

�12,000, workers could be up to �12,000, workers could be up to

:47:43.:47:51.

�12,000, workers could be up to �12,000, workers could be up to

:47:51.:47:52.

�250 a year better off. Some people �250 a year better off. Some people

:47:53.:47:53.

�250 a year better off. Some people �250 a year better off. Some people

:47:53.:47:55.

say restoring the 10 p tax would be say restoring the 10 p tax would be

:47:55.:47:57.

say restoring the 10 p tax would be expensive. Yes, of course it would.

:47:57.:47:57.

expensive. Yes, of course it would. expensive. Yes, of course it would.

:47:57.:47:59.

expensive. Yes, of course it would. But it is worth it. The low-paid

:47:59.:48:01.

But it is worth it. The low-paid But it is worth it. The low-paid

:48:01.:48:03.

would benefit the most. I am would benefit the most. I am

:48:03.:48:04.

would benefit the most. I am arguing the extra revenues raised

:48:04.:48:06.

arguing the extra revenues raised arguing the extra revenues raised

:48:06.:48:07.

arguing the extra revenues raised from taxing the rich down to 45p,

:48:07.:48:08.

from taxing the rich down to 45p, from taxing the rich down to 45p,

:48:08.:48:09.

from taxing the rich down to 45p, should be used to fund the new 10

:48:09.:48:12.

should be used to fund the new 10 should be used to fund the new 10

:48:12.:48:15.

pence income tax rate. Let's make pence income tax rate. Let's make

:48:15.:48:16.

pence income tax rate. Let's make tax cuts in moral mission, and

:48:16.:48:17.

tax cuts in moral mission, and tax cuts in moral mission, and

:48:17.:48:18.

tax cuts in moral mission, and let's make it for the many and not

:48:18.:48:20.

the few. the few.

:48:20.:48:21.

the few. Well Robert Halfon has finished his

:48:21.:48:22.

Well Robert Halfon has finished his Well Robert Halfon has finished his

:48:22.:48:22.

Well Robert Halfon has finished his cuppa and joins us now to discuss

:48:22.:48:26.

cuppa and joins us now to discuss cuppa and joins us now to discuss

:48:26.:48:27.

cuppa and joins us now to discuss his idea. And our guest of the day

:48:27.:48:28.

his idea. And our guest of the day his idea. And our guest of the day

:48:28.:48:32.

Alan Johnson is still with us. Alan Johnson is still with us.

:48:32.:48:34.

Alan Johnson is still with us. Why not just raised the threshold

:48:34.:48:35.

Why not just raised the threshold Why not just raised the threshold

:48:35.:48:37.

as this coalition has been doing, as this coalition has been doing,

:48:37.:48:39.

as this coalition has been doing, even further, to take more people

:48:39.:48:41.

even further, to take more people even further, to take more people

:48:41.:48:42.

even further, to take more people out of tax altogether, and put some

:48:43.:48:43.

out of tax altogether, and put some out of tax altogether, and put some

:48:43.:48:45.

out of tax altogether, and put some in a 10 pence band? I will come

:48:45.:48:47.

in a 10 pence band? I will come in a 10 pence band? I will come

:48:47.:48:47.

in a 10 pence band? I will come raising it to 10,000, but if you

:48:47.:48:49.

raising it to 10,000, but if you raising it to 10,000, but if you

:48:49.:48:50.

keep raising... It's has not keep raising... It's has not

:48:50.:48:52.

keep raising... It's has not happened yet, of course. It could

:48:52.:48:53.

happened yet, of course. It could happened yet, of course. It could

:48:53.:48:55.

happened yet, of course. It could be on its way. We should raise its

:48:55.:48:56.

be on its way. We should raise its be on its way. We should raise its

:48:56.:48:58.

be on its way. We should raise its up to the level of minimum ways,

:48:58.:49:01.

up to the level of minimum ways, up to the level of minimum ways,

:49:01.:49:02.

12,500. Then you introduce the 10 12,500. Then you introduce the 10

:49:02.:49:03.

12,500. Then you introduce the 10 12,500. Then you introduce the 10

:49:03.:49:05.

pence tax rate. If you keep raising pence tax rate. If you keep raising

:49:05.:49:06.

pence tax rate. If you keep raising the threshold, people don't have a

:49:06.:49:08.

the threshold, people don't have a the threshold, people don't have a

:49:08.:49:09.

the threshold, people don't have a stake in the system. It you invite

:49:09.:49:10.

stake in the system. It you invite stake in the system. It you invite

:49:10.:49:11.

stake in the system. It you invite people to a restaurant and say to a

:49:11.:49:12.

people to a restaurant and say to a people to a restaurant and say to a

:49:13.:49:14.

certain group of people, they don't certain group of people, they don't

:49:14.:49:15.

certain group of people, they don't certain group of people, they don't

:49:15.:49:16.

have to pay any of the bill, they have to pay any of the bill, they

:49:16.:49:17.

have to pay any of the bill, they have to pay any of the bill, they

:49:17.:49:20.

have no stake in the food and don't have no stake in the food and don't

:49:20.:49:23.

have no stake in the food and don't bother what they order. You have

:49:23.:49:24.

bother what they order. You have bother what they order. You have

:49:24.:49:26.

bother what they order. You have been to dinner with duo have you?

:49:26.:49:28.

been to dinner with duo have you? been to dinner with duo have you?

:49:28.:49:30.

been to dinner with duo have you? am with Robert. I sat in the

:49:30.:49:31.

am with Robert. I sat in the am with Robert. I sat in the

:49:31.:49:33.

Cabinet when Gordon announced it. Cabinet when Gordon announced it.

:49:33.:49:34.

Cabinet when Gordon announced it. Cabinet when Gordon announced it.

:49:34.:49:35.

He was the Chancellor then and Tony He was the Chancellor then and Tony

:49:35.:49:37.

He was the Chancellor then and Tony Blair was the Prime Minister. He

:49:37.:49:37.

Blair was the Prime Minister. He Blair was the Prime Minister. He

:49:37.:49:39.

Blair was the Prime Minister. He announced it at the same time of

:49:39.:49:40.

announced it at the same time of announced it at the same time of

:49:40.:49:42.

this magic reduction in basic rate this magic reduction in basic rate

:49:42.:49:43.

this magic reduction in basic rate this magic reduction in basic rate

:49:43.:49:45.

of tax. I remember it well.He was of tax. I remember it well.He was

:49:45.:49:46.

of tax. I remember it well.He was of tax. I remember it well.He was

:49:46.:49:47.

given a round of applause. It was given a round of applause. It was

:49:47.:49:50.

given a round of applause. It was given a round of applause. It was

:49:50.:49:51.

the biggest disaster. It hit us far the biggest disaster. It hit us far

:49:51.:49:52.

the biggest disaster. It hit us far wider than the number of people

:49:52.:49:56.

wider than the number of people wider than the number of people

:49:56.:49:57.

affected. We had to scramble a affected. We had to scramble a

:49:57.:49:59.

affected. We had to scramble a round, Alastair Darling found some

:49:59.:50:01.

round, Alastair Darling found some round, Alastair Darling found some

:50:01.:50:03.

round, Alastair Darling found some ways to remedy it. And I think it

:50:03.:50:04.

ways to remedy it. And I think it ways to remedy it. And I think it

:50:04.:50:05.

ways to remedy it. And I think it is some -- still there as a very

:50:05.:50:06.

is some -- still there as a very is some -- still there as a very

:50:06.:50:10.

is some -- still there as a very big mistake. I'm glad you said in

:50:10.:50:11.

big mistake. I'm glad you said in big mistake. I'm glad you said in

:50:12.:50:12.

the introduction that it Gordon the introduction that it Gordon

:50:12.:50:14.

the introduction that it Gordon Brown introduced it. At the time

:50:15.:50:15.

Brown introduced it. At the time Brown introduced it. At the time

:50:15.:50:16.

before the national minimum wage before the national minimum wage

:50:16.:50:20.

before the national minimum wage before the national minimum wage

:50:20.:50:21.

had taken hold or tax would -- tax had taken hold or tax would -- tax

:50:21.:50:24.

had taken hold or tax would -- tax credits had taken hold. Yawed idea

:50:24.:50:26.

credits had taken hold. Yawed idea credits had taken hold. Yawed idea

:50:26.:50:28.

credits had taken hold. Yawed idea credits had taken hold. Yawed idea

:50:28.:50:28.

is up to 10,000, no tax. Then up to is up to 10,000, no tax. Then up to

:50:28.:50:32.

is up to 10,000, no tax. Then up to is up to 10,000, no tax. Then up to

:50:32.:50:34.

turn up to the minimum wage, 12,500, turn up to the minimum wage, 12,500,

:50:34.:50:36.

turn up to the minimum wage, 12,500, turn up to the minimum wage, 12,500,

:50:36.:50:37.

so the tax band of �2,500 would be so the tax band of �2,500 would be

:50:37.:50:39.

so the tax band of �2,500 would be so the tax band of �2,500 would be

:50:39.:50:41.

at the 10 pence rate. That would at the 10 pence rate. That would

:50:41.:50:42.

at the 10 pence rate. That would at the 10 pence rate. That would

:50:42.:50:44.

cost about �7 billion, where we get cost about �7 billion, where we get

:50:44.:50:46.

cost about �7 billion, where we get that from? First of all, David

:50:46.:50:48.

that from? First of all, David that from? First of all, David

:50:48.:50:50.

Cameron said yesterday, when the Cameron said yesterday, when the

:50:50.:50:51.

Cameron said yesterday, when the Cameron said yesterday, when the

:50:51.:50:52.

tax rate was at 50 pence, the tax rate was at 50 pence, the

:50:52.:50:53.

tax rate was at 50 pence, the Government lasts �7 billion. They

:50:53.:50:54.

Government lasts �7 billion. They Government lasts �7 billion. They

:50:54.:50:55.

Government lasts �7 billion. They will get lots of other revenue by

:50:55.:50:58.

will get lots of other revenue by will get lots of other revenue by

:50:58.:51:00.

reducing the rate of 45p. According reducing the rate of 45p. According

:51:00.:51:04.

reducing the rate of 45p. According to David Cameron in Parliament.

:51:04.:51:05.

to David Cameron in Parliament. to David Cameron in Parliament.

:51:05.:51:06.

to David Cameron in Parliament. This would be contested by Alan and

:51:06.:51:08.

This would be contested by Alan and This would be contested by Alan and

:51:09.:51:10.

his colleagues, the Government says his colleagues, the Government says

:51:11.:51:11.

his colleagues, the Government says his colleagues, the Government says

:51:11.:51:13.

cutting from 50 to 45 will cost the cutting from 50 to 45 will cost the

:51:13.:51:14.

cutting from 50 to 45 will cost the Exchequer at least �100 million. It

:51:14.:51:15.

Exchequer at least �100 million. It Exchequer at least �100 million. It

:51:15.:51:17.

Exchequer at least �100 million. It does not raise an extra 7 billion.

:51:17.:51:19.

does not raise an extra 7 billion. does not raise an extra 7 billion.

:51:19.:51:20.

does not raise an extra 7 billion. They lost 7 billion when the rate...

:51:21.:51:21.

They lost 7 billion when the rate... They lost 7 billion when the rate...

:51:21.:51:23.

They lost 7 billion when the rate... They won't get that back. They will

:51:23.:51:24.

They won't get that back. They will They won't get that back. They will

:51:24.:51:26.

They won't get that back. They will get some of it back. Then we should

:51:26.:51:27.

get some of it back. Then we should get some of it back. Then we should

:51:27.:51:28.

get some of it back. Then we should get some of it back. Then we should

:51:28.:51:30.

use it to pay for the 10 pence tax use it to pay for the 10 pence tax

:51:30.:51:31.

use it to pay for the 10 pence tax use it to pay for the 10 pence tax

:51:31.:51:31.

rate. Won't it leaves a huge hole rate. Won't it leaves a huge hole

:51:31.:51:34.

rate. Won't it leaves a huge hole rate. Won't it leaves a huge hole

:51:34.:51:35.

in your plans? No, we're looking at in your plans? No, we're looking at

:51:35.:51:37.

in your plans? No, we're looking at existing money, I am not spending

:51:37.:51:38.

existing money, I am not spending existing money, I am not spending

:51:38.:51:40.

extra money or borrowing. I don't extra money or borrowing. I don't

:51:40.:51:42.

extra money or borrowing. I don't believe in taxing property, as the

:51:42.:51:43.

believe in taxing property, as the believe in taxing property, as the

:51:43.:51:44.

Labour Party is suggesting, because Labour Party is suggesting, because

:51:44.:51:47.

Labour Party is suggesting, because Labour Party is suggesting, because

:51:47.:51:48.

it creates a precedent. It may hit it creates a precedent. It may hit

:51:48.:51:50.

it creates a precedent. It may hit it creates a precedent. It may hit

:51:50.:51:51.

houses of 2 million now, but it houses of 2 million now, but it

:51:51.:51:51.

houses of 2 million now, but it houses of 2 million now, but it

:51:51.:51:52.

will hit houses of one million in will hit houses of one million in

:51:52.:51:54.

will hit houses of one million in will hit houses of one million in

:51:54.:51:56.

the future. That does not cover his the future. That does not cover his

:51:56.:51:58.

the future. That does not cover his the future. That does not cover his

:51:58.:51:59.

band of 10 to 12,500. It is band of 10 to 12,500. It is

:52:00.:52:01.

band of 10 to 12,500. It is band of 10 to 12,500. It is

:52:01.:52:02.

interesting. It is a split in the interesting. It is a split in the

:52:02.:52:03.

coalition because the coalition coalition because the coalition

:52:03.:52:05.

coalition because the coalition coalition because the coalition

:52:05.:52:06.

would want to go to the 12,500 as would want to go to the 12,500 as

:52:06.:52:07.

would want to go to the 12,500 as would want to go to the 12,500 as

:52:07.:52:10.

the band people don't pay any tax the band people don't pay any tax

:52:10.:52:11.

the band people don't pay any tax the band people don't pay any tax

:52:11.:52:12.

at all. This is a debate on how at all. This is a debate on how

:52:12.:52:13.

at all. This is a debate on how at all. This is a debate on how

:52:14.:52:14.

best to help the lower paid. Is the best to help the lower paid. Is the

:52:14.:52:16.

best to help the lower paid. Is the Chancellor listening to you?

:52:16.:52:18.

Chancellor listening to you? Chancellor listening to you?

:52:18.:52:19.

Chancellor listening to you? think they are. You may be right or

:52:19.:52:21.

think they are. You may be right or think they are. You may be right or

:52:21.:52:22.

think they are. You may be right or wrong, but I would suggest if there

:52:22.:52:23.

wrong, but I would suggest if there wrong, but I would suggest if there

:52:23.:52:24.

wrong, but I would suggest if there is any spare money around he will

:52:24.:52:25.

is any spare money around he will is any spare money around he will

:52:25.:52:26.

is any spare money around he will keep the Lib Dems happy by taking

:52:26.:52:27.

keep the Lib Dems happy by taking keep the Lib Dems happy by taking

:52:27.:52:29.

more people out of tax altogether. more people out of tax altogether.

:52:29.:52:29.

more people out of tax altogether. more people out of tax altogether.

:52:30.:52:32.

That is more likely what he will That is more likely what he will

:52:32.:52:33.

That is more likely what he will That is more likely what he will

:52:33.:52:35.

do? We have to focus on cost of do? We have to focus on cost of

:52:35.:52:37.

do? We have to focus on cost of living taxes. We may carry on

:52:37.:52:39.

living taxes. We may carry on living taxes. We may carry on

:52:39.:52:41.

removing -- raising the threshold. removing -- raising the threshold.

:52:41.:52:42.

removing -- raising the threshold. But especially for the considered

:52:42.:52:43.

But especially for the considered But especially for the considered

:52:43.:52:45.

party, we need a fundamental tax party, we need a fundamental tax

:52:45.:52:46.

party, we need a fundamental tax party, we need a fundamental tax

:52:46.:52:47.

reform and show people we are on reform and show people we are on

:52:47.:52:47.

reform and show people we are on reform and show people we are on

:52:47.:52:48.

the side of the poor and the best the side of the poor and the best

:52:48.:52:49.

the side of the poor and the best the side of the poor and the best

:52:49.:52:50.

the side of the poor and the best way to do that is the 10 pence tax

:52:50.:52:52.

way to do that is the 10 pence tax rate. Don't go away.

:52:52.:52:53.

rate. Don't go away. rate. Don't go away.

:52:53.:52:54.

Now it's not exactly the Paris Now it's not exactly the Paris

:52:54.:52:55.

Now it's not exactly the Paris Spring Collection but it certainly

:52:55.:52:56.

Spring Collection but it certainly Spring Collection but it certainly

:52:56.:52:57.

brought a little colour into the brought a little colour into the

:52:57.:52:57.

brought a little colour into the Commons yesterday. Should we be

:52:57.:52:58.

Commons yesterday. Should we be Commons yesterday. Should we be

:52:58.:52:59.

Commons yesterday. Should we be adding Sir Bob Russell MP to the

:52:59.:53:00.

adding Sir Bob Russell MP to the adding Sir Bob Russell MP to the

:53:00.:53:01.

adding Sir Bob Russell MP to the list of such style icons as Stella

:53:01.:53:02.

list of such style icons as Stella McCartney, Alexander McQueen, and

:53:02.:53:04.

McCartney, Alexander McQueen, and McCartney, Alexander McQueen, and

:53:04.:53:05.

Viviene Westwood? I'll leave it to Viviene Westwood? I'll leave it to

:53:05.:53:10.

you to judge. you to judge.

:53:10.:53:13.

you to judge. The Prime Minister has observed UK

:53:13.:53:14.

The Prime Minister has observed UK The Prime Minister has observed UK

:53:14.:53:17.

The Prime Minister has observed UK macro is a party of nutcases, freak

:53:17.:53:21.

macro is a party of nutcases, freak macro is a party of nutcases, freak

:53:21.:53:22.

case and closet racists. How are case and closet racists. How are

:53:22.:53:27.

case and closet racists. How are case and closet racists. How are

:53:27.:53:28.

the talks going? First of all, can the talks going? First of all, can

:53:28.:53:30.

the talks going? First of all, can I commend him on his splendid

:53:30.:53:34.

waistcoat. Enough! waistcoat. Enough!

:53:35.:53:35.

waistcoat. Enough! Not nearly "enough already" for us

:53:36.:53:37.

Not nearly "enough already" for us Not nearly "enough already" for us

:53:37.:53:38.

Not nearly "enough already" for us though. In a moment, we will be

:53:38.:53:39.

though. In a moment, we will be though. In a moment, we will be

:53:39.:53:40.

though. In a moment, we will be talking to Bob Rusell and from the

:53:40.:53:41.

talking to Bob Rusell and from the talking to Bob Rusell and from the

:53:41.:53:42.

other side of the Coalition the other side of the Coalition the

:53:42.:53:42.

other side of the Coalition the rather natty, Robert Halfon. But

:53:42.:53:43.

rather natty, Robert Halfon. But rather natty, Robert Halfon. But

:53:43.:53:44.

rather natty, Robert Halfon. But first, let's take a look at some of

:53:44.:53:45.

first, let's take a look at some of the most interesting' fashion

:53:45.:53:46.

the most interesting' fashion the most interesting' fashion

:53:46.:53:47.

adventures in politics. And, in adventures in politics. And, in

:53:47.:53:48.

adventures in politics. And, in common with most catwalks, there's

:53:48.:53:49.

common with most catwalks, there's common with most catwalks, there's

:53:49.:53:59.
:53:59.:54:06.

# Based seeking here, they seek him there.

:54:06.:54:10.

there. there.

:54:10.:54:11.

there. # He is a dedicated follower of

:54:11.:54:21.
:54:21.:54:58.

And Sir Bob Russell is with us and And Sir Bob Russell is with us and

:54:58.:54:59.

And Sir Bob Russell is with us and And Sir Bob Russell is with us and

:54:59.:54:59.

we've held on to Robert Halfon, who we've held on to Robert Halfon, who

:55:00.:55:00.

we've held on to Robert Halfon, who we've held on to Robert Halfon, who

:55:01.:55:06.

has some nifty style tips up his has some nifty style tips up his

:55:06.:55:07.

has some nifty style tips up his sleeve too. Just take me through

:55:07.:55:09.

sleeve too. Just take me through sleeve too. Just take me through

:55:09.:55:13.

the thought pattern on wearing that the thought pattern on wearing that

:55:13.:55:14.

lovely waistcoat? It was lovely waistcoat? It was

:55:14.:55:15.

lovely waistcoat? It was emphasising the fact that the Lib

:55:15.:55:16.

emphasising the fact that the Lib emphasising the fact that the Lib

:55:16.:55:18.

Dems, we are not Conservatives, we Dems, we are not Conservatives, we

:55:18.:55:19.

Dems, we are not Conservatives, we Dems, we are not Conservatives, we

:55:19.:55:20.

are part of the coalition and just are part of the coalition and just

:55:20.:55:22.

are part of the coalition and just when a vital by-election the

:55:22.:55:24.

when a vital by-election the when a vital by-election the

:55:24.:55:27.

previous week. It was his statement. previous week. It was his statement.

:55:27.:55:30.

previous week. It was his statement. Matching socks? Matching socks and

:55:30.:55:34.

Matching socks? Matching socks and Matching socks? Matching socks and

:55:34.:55:35.

Matching socks? Matching socks and a tide. This week I have spoken

:55:35.:55:38.

a tide. This week I have spoken a tide. This week I have spoken

:55:38.:55:38.

about Palestine, Israel, the future about Palestine, Israel, the future

:55:38.:55:42.

about Palestine, Israel, the future of the army. Nobody is interested.

:55:42.:55:42.

of the army. Nobody is interested. of the army. Nobody is interested.

:55:43.:55:44.

I were a waistcoat like this... I were a waistcoat like this...

:55:44.:55:46.

I were a waistcoat like this... I were a waistcoat like this...

:55:46.:55:48.

This is not your first outing in a This is not your first outing in a

:55:48.:55:49.

This is not your first outing in a waistcoat? This will be worn on

:55:49.:55:51.

waistcoat? This will be worn on waistcoat? This will be worn on

:55:51.:55:52.

waistcoat? This will be worn on Budget day. Because it has a coins

:55:52.:55:54.

Budget day. Because it has a coins Budget day. Because it has a coins

:55:54.:55:56.

Budget day. Because it has a coins on it? A very observant. And this

:55:56.:55:58.

on it? A very observant. And this on it? A very observant. And this

:55:58.:55:59.

on it? A very observant. And this is the State Opening. My have got a

:55:59.:56:00.

is the State Opening. My have got a is the State Opening. My have got a

:56:00.:56:02.

is the State Opening. My have got a chair a bit like that. If you look

:56:02.:56:03.

chair a bit like that. If you look chair a bit like that. If you look

:56:03.:56:04.

chair a bit like that. If you look at the fabric, it could have come

:56:04.:56:05.

at the fabric, it could have come at the fabric, it could have come

:56:05.:56:06.

at the fabric, it could have come off a chair because it is very

:56:06.:56:09.

off a chair because it is very off a chair because it is very

:56:09.:56:09.

thick. Anyway, I have brought thick. Anyway, I have brought

:56:09.:56:10.

thick. Anyway, I have brought together a collection. Make good

:56:10.:56:14.

together a collection. Make good family friend, Margaret Marchant,

:56:14.:56:18.

family friend, Margaret Marchant, family friend, Margaret Marchant,

:56:18.:56:19.

family friend, Margaret Marchant, has made nine. Somebody called it a

:56:19.:56:22.

has made nine. Somebody called it a has made nine. Somebody called it a

:56:22.:56:24.

has made nine. Somebody called it a cardigan coat. It is a waste coat.

:56:24.:56:26.

cardigan coat. It is a waste coat. cardigan coat. It is a waste coat.

:56:26.:56:27.

cardigan coat. It is a waste coat. The bottom button is undone as is

:56:27.:56:29.

The bottom button is undone as is The bottom button is undone as is

:56:29.:56:31.

The bottom button is undone as is the only way. The Lib Dem logo and

:56:31.:56:32.

the only way. The Lib Dem logo and the only way. The Lib Dem logo and

:56:32.:56:33.

the only way. The Lib Dem logo and the whole back is a massive Lib Dem

:56:33.:56:35.

the whole back is a massive Lib Dem the whole back is a massive Lib Dem

:56:35.:56:36.

the whole back is a massive Lib Dem logo. Perhaps we were just stick to

:56:36.:56:38.

logo. Perhaps we were just stick to logo. Perhaps we were just stick to

:56:38.:56:39.

the front. I always thought he the front. I always thought he

:56:39.:56:40.

the front. I always thought he looked like Rupert the Bear, but

:56:40.:56:42.

looked like Rupert the Bear, but looked like Rupert the Bear, but

:56:43.:56:43.

looked like Rupert the Bear, but not as could lead. But it is a

:56:43.:56:45.

not as could lead. But it is a not as could lead. But it is a

:56:45.:56:47.

magnificent set of waistcoats and I magnificent set of waistcoats and I

:56:47.:56:49.

magnificent set of waistcoats and I always complement him. You cannot

:56:49.:56:52.

always complement him. You cannot always complement him. You cannot

:56:52.:56:53.

always complement him. You cannot cast stones cos please show us this

:56:53.:56:53.

cast stones cos please show us this cast stones cos please show us this

:56:53.:56:56.

special edition to keep the fashion. special edition to keep the fashion.

:56:56.:56:57.

special edition to keep the fashion. special edition to keep the fashion.

:56:57.:56:59.

My had hoped to keep this a secret My had hoped to keep this a secret

:56:59.:56:59.

My had hoped to keep this a secret My had hoped to keep this a secret

:56:59.:57:00.

but I was outed by Tim Montgomerie but I was outed by Tim Montgomerie

:57:00.:57:02.

but I was outed by Tim Montgomerie but I was outed by Tim Montgomerie

:57:02.:57:03.

in the Times a few weeks ago he in the Times a few weeks ago he

:57:03.:57:05.

in the Times a few weeks ago he in the Times a few weeks ago he

:57:05.:57:07.

knew me at university. I wore these knew me at university. I wore these

:57:07.:57:08.

knew me at university. I wore these at university. You wore them at

:57:08.:57:11.

at university. You wore them at at university. You wore them at

:57:11.:57:12.

university? They are slippers. university? They are slippers.

:57:12.:57:13.

university? They are slippers. university? They are slippers.

:57:13.:57:15.

have pride of place in my home. have pride of place in my home.

:57:15.:57:16.

have pride of place in my home. have pride of place in my home.

:57:16.:57:17.

This is the first time they have This is the first time they have

:57:17.:57:17.

This is the first time they have seen the light of day since

:57:18.:57:19.

seen the light of day since seen the light of day since

:57:19.:57:21.

university. Where did you get them university. Where did you get them

:57:21.:57:24.

university. Where did you get them from? I cannot remember. They had

:57:24.:57:26.

from? I cannot remember. They had from? I cannot remember. They had

:57:26.:57:32.

from? I cannot remember. They had the very old Tory logo on. And they

:57:32.:57:34.

the very old Tory logo on. And they the very old Tory logo on. And they

:57:34.:57:35.

are from Spitting Image. I love are from Spitting Image. I love

:57:35.:57:37.

are from Spitting Image. I love are from Spitting Image. I love

:57:37.:57:39.

them. Being a Tory student, I could them. Being a Tory student, I could

:57:39.:57:40.

them. Being a Tory student, I could not resist. They are representative

:57:40.:57:41.

not resist. They are representative not resist. They are representative

:57:41.:57:44.

of people who are downtrodden. of people who are downtrodden.

:57:44.:57:48.

of people who are downtrodden. good! Alan Johnson, what would your

:57:48.:57:50.

good! Alan Johnson, what would your good! Alan Johnson, what would your

:57:50.:57:51.

sartorial climax be? Look at these sartorial climax be? Look at these

:57:51.:57:55.

sartorial climax be? Look at these and never vote Lib Dem or

:57:55.:57:57.

and never vote Lib Dem or Conservative. They shouldn't be

:57:57.:58:00.

Conservative. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Government.

:58:00.:58:02.

allowed anywhere near Government. allowed anywhere near Government.

:58:02.:58:03.

Address the way high at always Address the way high at always

:58:04.:58:05.

Address the way high at always Address the way high at always

:58:05.:58:06.

dressed. These two, if I was to dressed. These two, if I was to

:58:06.:58:07.

dressed. These two, if I was to pick their address apart, it would

:58:07.:58:09.

pick their address apart, it would pick their address apart, it would

:58:09.:58:10.

pick their address apart, it would take me hours. Will you take them

:58:10.:58:13.

take me hours. Will you take them take me hours. Will you take them

:58:13.:58:14.

shopping? I will, yes. Small feet shopping? I will, yes. Small feet

:58:14.:58:17.

shopping? I will, yes. Small feet on a big budget. By drawing

:58:17.:58:18.

on a big budget. By drawing on a big budget. By drawing

:58:18.:58:19.

attention to this, I am most attention to this, I am most

:58:19.:58:21.

attention to this, I am most grateful because I would like to

:58:21.:58:22.

grateful because I would like to grateful because I would like to

:58:22.:58:22.

save following what Roberts said save following what Roberts said

:58:22.:58:25.

save following what Roberts said earlier, we should raise the tax

:58:25.:58:26.

earlier, we should raise the tax earlier, we should raise the tax

:58:26.:58:27.

earlier, we should raise the tax threshold and not bring in the 10

:58:27.:58:29.

pence one. pence one.

:58:29.:58:30.

pence one. pence one.

:58:30.:58:31.

There's just time before we go to There's just time before we go to

:58:31.:58:32.

There's just time before we go to There's just time before we go to

:58:32.:58:32.

find out the answer to our quiz. find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:32.:58:33.

find out the answer to our quiz. find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:33.:58:34.

The question was which of these is The question was which of these is

:58:34.:58:35.

the odd one out? the odd one out?

:58:35.:58:36.

the odd one out? The bedroom tax, the spare room

:58:36.:58:37.

The bedroom tax, the spare room The bedroom tax, the spare room

:58:37.:58:38.

subsidy, the study surcharge or subsidy, the study surcharge or

:58:38.:58:39.

social housing under-occupancy social housing under-occupancy

:58:39.:58:39.

social housing under-occupancy policy. So, Alan, what's the

:58:39.:58:40.

correct answer? correct answer?

:58:40.:58:41.

correct answer? The study surcharge, which we made

:58:41.:58:43.

The study surcharge, which we made The study surcharge, which we made

:58:43.:58:44.

The study surcharge, which we made up. The rest are all names for the

:58:44.:58:48.

up. The rest are all names for the up. The rest are all names for the

:58:48.:58:49.

up. The rest are all names for the same thing. You have one yourself a

:58:49.:58:50.

same thing. You have one yourself a same thing. You have one yourself a

:58:50.:58:52.

pair of Margaret Thatcher slippers. pair of Margaret Thatcher slippers.

:58:52.:58:53.

pair of Margaret Thatcher slippers. pair of Margaret Thatcher slippers.

:58:53.:58:54.

That's all for today. Thanks to our That's all for today. Thanks to our

:58:54.:58:55.

That's all for today. Thanks to our guests. The One o'clock News is

:58:55.:58:56.

guests. The One o'clock News is guests. The One o'clock News is

:58:56.:58:57.

guests. The One o'clock News is starting over on BBC One now. And

:58:57.:58:58.

starting over on BBC One now. And starting over on BBC One now. And

:58:58.:58:58.

starting over on BBC One now. And I'll be holding on to Alan Johnson

:58:58.:58:59.

I'll be holding on to Alan Johnson I'll be holding on to Alan Johnson

:58:59.:59:00.

I'll be holding on to Alan Johnson as he is back with me tonight on

:59:00.:59:01.

as he is back with me tonight on as he is back with me tonight on

:59:01.:59:02.

as he is back with me tonight on BBC One for This Week, when I'll

:59:02.:59:03.

BBC One for This Week, when I'll BBC One for This Week, when I'll

:59:03.:59:04.

also have the Cheeky Girls speaking also have the Cheeky Girls speaking

:59:04.:59:05.

also have the Cheeky Girls speaking also have the Cheeky Girls speaking

:59:05.:59:07.

up for Romania, as we talk more up for Romania, as we talk more

:59:07.:59:08.

immigration. Victoria Derbyshire immigration. Victoria Derbyshire

:59:08.:59:09.

immigration. Victoria Derbyshire will look back on the political

:59:09.:59:10.

will look back on the political will look back on the political

:59:10.:59:11.

week and Nigel Kennedy may have week and Nigel Kennedy may have

:59:11.:59:12.

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