Browse content similar to 31/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon. Welcome to the Daily Politics. George Osborne is blowing | :00:39. | :00:46. | |
his own trumpet again. He's just made a speech with a commitment to | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
fight for full employment and argues his changes to the tax and benefits | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
system are the most important for a generation. | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
How does a ?10 a month charge to use the NHS grab you? It's being | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
proposed by the former Labour Health Minister Lord Warner to help plug | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
the funding gap. We'll speak to him live. | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
The impact of climate change is likely to be severe, pervasive and | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
irreversible according to a major new report by the UN. We'll discuss | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
what, if anything, can be done about it. | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
And excessive drinking, expenses scandals and corruption. Just a | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
normal day in the office of the Daily Politics and they also feature | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
pretty highly in the history of Parliament. Surprise surprise. We | :01:24. | :01:33. | |
will take a look back. All that in the next hour. And with | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
us for the first half of the programme is the editor of Labour | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
List Mark Ferguson. Welcome to the programme. Let's start with the | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
proposals from former Labour Health Minister Lord Warner that everyone | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
should start paying a ?10 a month so-called membership charge to use | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
the NHS. The plan is from a report for the think-tank Reform and argues | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
that the money is needed to plug an expected ?30 billion funding gap by | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
2020. So, could this be a goer? Lord Warner is with me now. Before we ask | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
you whether it will catch on, where did you get the funding gap from? | :02:13. | :02:23. | |
Because the now retired or retiring chief executive actually said that | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
is what the gap would be by the end of the decade. Nuffield trust, the | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
independent health think tank said it could be over ?40 billion. We | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
have used the most conservative estimate. I do not think too many | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
people in the know who I have spoken to think there will not be a great | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
financial black hole by the end of this decade for the NHS. Without new | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
sources of funding? We are saying other things as well. The NHS is not | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
as efficient as it could be. We are in good company. The regulator | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
saying the same thing. ?18 billion worth of savings Monitor thinks the | :03:05. | :03:12. | |
NHS could deliver. Anyway you look at it, the funding streams look | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
inadequate to cope with providing a good quality health service with the | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
disease profiles we have and tomography we have got. Health | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
spending is devolved, you are talking about England. But it will | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
go against the grain. It will go against the grain of the majority of | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
people in England who say it has to be free at the point of use, that is | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
what it was setup to. We respect that. We would like to go on putting | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
more money into the NHS but I do not think you can go on shoving more | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
money into the NHS from general taxation with the situation we have | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
got. We have to look for otherwise. We have also got to look at finding | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
creative ways to get people to in gauge with looking after their own | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
health better than we have done so far. Your proposal for a ?10 charge | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
for everybody to become a member of the NHS is what you are proposing is | :04:11. | :04:19. | |
a starting point. We all also -- we are also proposing exemptions. There | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
should be some exemptions for children and poorer people as well. | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
What do you think the reaction will be? The Labour Party has said there | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
is no prospect of this being introduced by them ever. Long term | :04:33. | :04:42. | |
Labour would keep the NHS free at point of use. I commend Lord Warner | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
for thinking seriously about the funding. But you talked about | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
membership of the NHS. One of the wonderful things about the NHS is | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
from the moment you are born, you are a member. You do not have to | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
worry about whether you have paid your bills when you turn up at | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
hospital. It is not affordable and sustainable according to Lord | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
Warner, if we want to treat the wide range of diseases and ageing | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
population. Do you accept that? I am not sure I do. There is still a case | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
for it being funded through general taxation. The NHS... You think | :05:22. | :05:32. | |
people would take an increase in general taxation? If we have a | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
shortfall, it is the kind of conversation we have to be having. | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
Should spending be ring fenced by some of -- ring fenced? I find it | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
difficult how Labour could have given this report serious | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
consideration. You think they are not thinking about it because | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
politically it would not be palatable. They have got to revisit | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
issues around the NHS. What are the other charges you would be looking | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
at? What about charging to go and see your GP, charging for food and | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
hospital? What we have tried to do with the membership idea is not | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
actually have a charge for GPs. We have tried not to put a barrier up. | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
This is an annual subscription. We have suggested one of the things to | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
be considered, as in France and Germany, is a small charge for the | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
hotel costs of being an impatient are particularly if you are in for | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
an exceptionally long time. De Unite union has put out a press release | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
saying you have a conflict of interest because you have links with | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
private health care companies. It is rubbish. They are out of date. They | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
will say there is a conflict of interest where there is this | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
privatisation of the NHS. Is that how you would see it? I have always | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
used the NHS and I will go on using it. But I will be a bit more | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
selective about which hospital I place myself in the charge of. In | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
terms of social insurance, one of the other things mentioned, do you | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
think it would ever be politically palatable? They have it in France | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
which is a far more left-wing country in many ways than our own. | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
Within the UK it is so much within the day to day, session around | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
health care that it is free at the point of use and I do not expect | :07:31. | :07:38. | |
that to change -- within the day to day conversation around health care. | :07:39. | :07:49. | |
Nearly 50% of MPs said it will no longer be free is used. -- free to | :07:50. | :07:58. | |
be used. In 2010, George Osborne said he | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
would eliminate the deficit by 2015. And after years of austerity, it | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
seems that the Chancellor believes that the public finances are in such | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
good shape that it is time for a massive give away. Or as Mr Osborne | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
calls it, the biggest tax reduction in two decades. How will the magical | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
transformation appear? Tomorrow the tax on company profits will be cut | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
by 22% to 21%. This will also be reformed and to help companies grow | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
the tax-free investment allowance will rise to half a million. On | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
Sunday, the lowest paid workers will only start paying tax after the | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
first 10,000. Bosses get another bonus with the national Insurance | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
cut of up to ?2000 per employee. Labour said the Chancellor's smoke | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
and mirrors routine is just an illusion with the typical household | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
?900 worse off since the last election. George Osborne has been | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
speaking just over an hour ago, hailing the new tax regime that | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
begins this week. The focus of the changes to tax was to encourage more | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
into work and the Chancellor's speech contained a rather retro | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
phrase. Over 2 million are still looking for a job. It will take time | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
to fix it but we will not rest while we have so much wasted potential in | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
some plants to be macro parts of the country. I am making a new | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
commitment to fight for full employment in Britain. Making jobs a | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
central goal of our economic plan. The Chancellor. Unfortunately, no | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
Treasury minister was available to discuss the speech. Very strange. | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
They are all fully employed, it seems. We are lucky enough to be | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
joined by the Jessie Norman a member the Treasury Select Committee. Thank | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
you for taking time out of your full-time job. Full employment, what | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
does the Chancellor mean by that? To us it means that everybody has a | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
job. He means that everyone should be in work to the maximum extent | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
possible, the full employable resources of the country should be | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
use. He said he wants us to be at the top of the G7 rankings for the | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
percentage of people in employment, above Canada, Germany, Japan. It is | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
formidable. What is the percentage we are talking about? He used a | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
figure 2 million unemployed, it is 7%. I cannot tell you what the | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
percentage would be but it would take us from 71% to 73% of people | :10:34. | :10:44. | |
employed. OK. In terms of rhetoric it is fairly loaded. George Osborne | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
is parking his tanks on the Labour Party's lawn. The Labour Party has | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
been talking about full employment. It depends on the Metro use. Labour | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
would want to see the number of people unemployed for six months or | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
more reduced to effectively zero. What I would say is that I have not | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
seen anything from George Osborne today in terms of policy that gets | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
us to that point other than it is an aspiration. Labour has the | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
compulsory jobs guarantee that will go in the right direction but I | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
still think they can go further. Osborne will need to go a lot | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
further to park his tanks properly and celebrate. What are the policies | :11:23. | :11:29. | |
that would get closer to that aspiration? The Chancellor | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
specifically distanced himself from the old-style Labour approach which | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
would be pumping up demand, classic Labour approach. He is saying we | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
need to continue to do what we are doing, stimulating the productive | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
potential of the economy through the kinds of tax reductions he has been | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
talking about today. Also, working alongside that on the welfare side | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
to encourage people out of dependency on the state and into | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
some form of productive and happy work. Are you saying the public | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
finances, is the Treasury saying the finances are in such a good state | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
that the country can afford tax giveaways? No, I do not think it | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
design that. If you look at the cost of the giveaways, some are very | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
expensive and some less so -- I do not think it is saying that. | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
Corporation tax reduction is relatively inexpensive. The key | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
point is to send a message being open for business, and economy on | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
the up. The numbers are indisputable. You say they are | :12:35. | :12:47. | |
indisputable but we have a rather large deficit. The Chancellor has | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
gone on about it being the priority. The priority has shifted. Growth has | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
come but we still have the deficit. He has not met his own target. 60% | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
of public spending cuts are still to come. I think that is unfair. On the | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
Treasury committee we had various experts who have made it clear the | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
recession that started in 2008 was the longest and deepest we have ever | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
had. The Chancellor is saying something extraordinarily sensible | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
which is that you cannot ignore the graveside and growth is fundamental | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
to reducing the deficit. Difficult balancing act of stimulator growth | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
and cutting tax and bearing down on debt and deficit. They go together. | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
Difficult for Labour with growth continuing and the Chancellor seems | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
to be able to say he can give things away. Whether or not it is fiscally | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
neutral we can argue about. It makes it difficult for Labour to have a | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
policy that growth was never going to come back. It has. Jobs have been | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
created. Labour was never stupid enough to say that jobs and growth | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
would not come back. Even a dead cat bounce is eventually. Labour will be | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
saying, we were promised growth but it is relatively meagre and late. | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
How many jobs? When will they come? The OBR is talking about 5% | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
unemployment in years to come. It does not feel like full employment | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
to me. Rather than a big tax giveaway. Would it not be prudent to | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
fix the roof if the sun is shining? The roof will be fixed by a growing | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
economy whose tax receipts moved upwards which repay debt. The tax | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
receipts have not been coming in the stock according to the Financial | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
Times today disappointing tax rates and the Chancellor should be | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
worried. Will be more reason for simplification of the tax system so | :14:47. | :14:48. | |
that people know what they should pay. Anyone would think there was an | :14:49. | :14:56. | |
election going on next year. The last budget was not election | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
orientated. Who goes into an election promising widespread | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
tidings up of the pension system? The extraordinary thing actually is | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
that the current fiscal straitjacket imposed by our debt and deficit | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
position makes it very hard for any government to start giving away | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
enormous amounts of money. This is not a giveaway. This is intelligent | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
setting of a long-term course. If you look at the numbers involved, | :15:21. | :15:28. | |
they very. The personal allowance, it is a real commitment. It is not a | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
giveaway. People are allowed to keep more of their money. | :15:33. | :15:42. | |
I think that when we come to the end of this Parliament, and people are | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
asking which tax measure is going to be most memorable, I think that so | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
far, the polls would suggest it will be not the personal allowance, but | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
the cutting off the top rate of tax. And that is even though, the measure | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
was only in place for a few months. However, the impact of saying we are | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
all in it together, and then cutting tax for the top rate taxpayers, it | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
does still resonate. There has been a lot of talk by your own | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
backbenchers about people being dragged into the 50p tax rate. VAT | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
has gone up. There are things which were taken away that you are just | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
restoring, you are not really giving any extra? You cannot call it | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
endless giveaways, and then say we are only restoring things! I can! | :16:36. | :16:43. | |
The key point about the top rate of tax is that it was designed to raise | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
more tax, and in fact, it looks like it is doing that. Unfortunately, no | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
matter what anyone thinks about it, it was a gimmick, and it has been | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
reversed. As the Chancellor has said, the rich are now paying more | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
tax than ever before. What about inheritance tax? When do you think | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
the increase in the threshold for intermittent stacks will happen, | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
raising it to 1 million, as was promised? -- inheritance tax. I have | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
no idea. It was an off-the-cuff remark by the Prime Minister. Is | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
that what it was? I have not assessed that in detail, but I do | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
not think it is a piece of policy at the moment. Thank you very much. | :17:30. | :17:39. | |
It used to be a familiar problem - companies relocating to Britain for | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
cheap labour and materials at the expense of British jobs. Called | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
"off-shoring" it could leave communities devastated and | :17:48. | :17:48. | |
governments feeling helpless. Now however, there's a new word in the | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
economic lexicon - "re-shoring" - the phenomena of companies coming | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
back to the UK and bringing jobs with them, and it's on the increase. | :17:56. | :17:57. | |
Here's Alex Forsyth with more. Too many working in manufacturing, | :17:58. | :18:13. | |
re-shoring might sound like a word made up by economists, which it is. | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
But it describes a growing trend. A number of firms are bringing their | :18:19. | :18:20. | |
production operations back to Britain, often from the Far East. | :18:21. | :18:29. | |
Six months ago, these items were manufactured in China. Now, they are | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
made at this factory in Tewkesbury, giving the company more flexibility. | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
They can order smaller quantities, more frequently, and get them to | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
their customers more quickly. Transit costs less. For the | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
retailer, it is a big change, to use this British factory. The firm | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
started out with most suppliers based overseas. This year it hopes | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
about a 10th of its turnover will come from products made in the UK. | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
Manufacturers have become more open to be more flexible with retailers, | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
giving us better payment terms and smaller production batches, so we | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
can try and test new products very quickly, bring them to market very | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
quickly and turn them around very quickly. All of this helps cash | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
flow, and when it comes to costs, rising wages in the Far East mean | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
that making products there is not as cheap as it once was. It is all good | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
news for British manufacturers. This factory now employs 150 people, | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
compared to 60, weight years ago. The new business we have received | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
has enable us to scale up production. We are producing around | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
7000 to raise a week now. We do it in a variety of shapes and sizes, | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
making us very versatile. David Cameron praised this kind of clicks | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
ability during his speech in Davos, which he used to praise the | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
re-shoring revolution. If we make the right decisions, we may see more | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
of what is a small but discernible trend, where some jobs which were | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
once offshore are coming back from East to West. | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
Of course, some firms are still heading overseas to make the most of | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
market opportunities in growing economies. But for the sake of | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
growth in the UK, the hope is that more businesses will once again want | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
to mark their products, made in Britain. | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
And with me in the studio is the chief economist with the | :20:34. | :20:42. | |
manufacturers' organisation, representing UK manufacturing | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
companies. What has the Government done, if anything, to encourage this | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
trend of companies re-shoring? Firstly, this is about what | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
manufacturers are doing. If companies are bringing production | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
back, making different decisions from the ones they were making ten | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
years ago, it is because companies are doing things differently. They | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
are more innovative, more flexible, more responsive to customers. | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
Government has helped to a degree I laying some of the foundations for | :21:12. | :21:13. | |
the kind of business environment which helps with those strategies. | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
More recently we have seen a particular programme which tries to | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
help overcome some of the challenges associated with re-shoring, in terms | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
of finding the right supplier, or making the decision about where best | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
to make your next investment. But this is mostly about what companies | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
have done, and how their strategies have changed. But has the motivation | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
for them to do it, which is always about cost, been a major factor? I | :21:40. | :21:48. | |
would argue it is not just about cost. In some recent research that | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
we did, around one in six companies have bought some production back | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
from a low labour cost economy to the UK. Nobody said it was just for | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
cost purposes. Companies are more innovative. In order to collaborate | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
and be more responsive to customers, there are clear advantages to | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
reducing more in the UK and having more of your supply chain in the UK. | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
This is encouraging for the manufacturing industry, isn't it? | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
Absolutely. For too long, under all sorts of governments, we have | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
knocked down manufacturing, built a business park, set up a call centre | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
and called it a success. But we are not at the levels which we had | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
before the crash yet, are we? We have heard endlessly from the | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
Government about rebalancing the economy, but is that actually | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
realistic, can we really talk about that? I think it is realistic. We | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
just have to be a bit more patient. This was never going to be a single | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
Parliament job. Creating sustainable growth requires us to be much more | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
focused on investment and export driven growth. When you're | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
fracturing has to be a key part of that. It delivers half hour exports. | :23:01. | :23:10. | |
-- manufacturing. Should Labour be focusing -- focusing more of its | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
attention on rebalancing the economy? I think if you look at | :23:15. | :23:25. | |
those economies which got through the financial crash test, they were | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
the ones with the most balanced economies. They did not just rely on | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
a couple of sectors. The British economy is far too biased, | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
geographically, regionally, and also between sectors in the economy. If | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
we can get rid of some of that bias, then we will have much more secure | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
growth to come. What about skills? It was mentioned in the film, | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
actually, do we have the right skills to expand in the way that you | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
would like to see? This has been a key challenge for manufacturing for | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
decades. If we are looking at re-shoring, the jobs which went | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
offshore to begin with are not the ones which will come back. They will | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
be much higher skilled, requiring much higher levels of technical | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
knowledge. And we do have a bit of a mismatch in terms of what is being | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
produced from schools and universities and what the industry | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
needs right now. There is going to be a, isn't there, a skills | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
shortage? Absolutely. There is a skills shortage at the moment. | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
Clearly, there is a lot of effort in terms of providing better careers | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
advice and getting more young people correctly educated. We need to make | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
sure we have got a really responsive training system to make sure that | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
people have access to programmes which can retrain people. That is | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
going to cost money? Absolutely but we really do in the north-east, my | :24:50. | :24:57. | |
dad, my grandparents, they worked in manufacturing, but if I have | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
children, will they be able to work in manufacturing? Probably not. | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
People I went to school with, will they be able to become engineers and | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
draughtsman and welders? Probably not, those skills just do not exist | :25:11. | :25:11. | |
any more. Parliamentarians haven't had the | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
best press over the last few years, and the expenses scandal has been a | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
big part of that. However, far from being a new phenomena, it seems | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
expenses were being used and abused over 700 years ago. Take a look at | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
this. It's a Parliamentary expense claim by one Fulk Peyferer from | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
1309. At the time, knights were invited to Parliament to discuss | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
matters with the King and they were paid four shillings a day, including | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
travel time, and that's twice the amount knights were paid to go to | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
war. The details were unearthed by the Labour MP Chris Bryant whilst | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
researching his book Parliament: A Biography - and he joins me now. | :25:57. | :26:07. | |
What was the motivation? Firstly, the pronunciation is Fulk Peyferer. | :26:08. | :26:16. | |
He will not sue me, will he?! Related to what Disney, many, many | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
generations back, I believe. Quite a lot of them are French names, | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
interestingly. A sickly, I wanted to abolish some of the myths about | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
Parliament. -- basically. The biggest one, which is trotted out so | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
often, is that Westminster is the mother of Parliaments. Isn't it? No, | :26:37. | :26:44. | |
the phrase comes from a Liberal MP in the 19th century, who was | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
basically arguing that even uncle and, who was the mother of | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
Parliaments, not Westminster, -- even England -- did not give rights | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
to everybody. So, it was criticising, not praising, Britain. | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
I wanted to get rid of that idea. The idea that we modern MPs were the | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
worst behaved. You mean there were worst behaved? Tell us about some of | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
the dodgy tales. One of them would be somebody called Ralph, who was | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
invited to the 1283 Parliament in Shrewsbury, which was basically | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
convened to witness the hanging, drawing and quartering of the Welsh | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
Prince, who had rebelled against his English overlords, quite right, too. | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
But Ralph crapping was a Burgess for London. When he went back to London, | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
he fell out with a guy over a woman called Alice. When they tried to | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
beat him up, he sent his friends around to murder the man, and | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
dressed it up as suicide. When this all came out, he died in the tower, | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
Alice was burnt at the stake, and 14 of his friends were hanged. There is | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
a lot of grisly Nass in this book. We showed in the introduction and | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
image of one of the earliest expenses claims, how did you track | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
that down? It is in the National Archives. In fact, where I started | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
from was, who were the very first commoners that we know that came to | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
Parliament? There was a teenager from Yorkshire, he came down, he was | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
paid for shillings a day for travelling and so on. The only | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
reason we know they came is because they have their expenses paid. The | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
point about four shillings, rather than two, was that the king was | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
really keen to have good people. Will you be going out to buy the | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
book? It sounds fascinating. We are lucky in this country to have a rich | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
political history. You often see American tourists being shown around | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
Parliament, and they cannot believe that so much has happened within | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
such a relatively small space. I think the book could be worth a | :28:53. | :29:00. | |
read. But we can be too overly proud sometimes. We forget that chance has | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
often played a role. We all think of her is corpus as being a fundamental | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
British freedom. It has been suspended plenty of times over the | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
years, not only in Northern Ireland. But it is still a British export | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
this can well, it is in Latin, of course, but more importantly, when | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
it came in, it was done in the last few and it's of the Parliament, and | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
it only got through in the House of Lords because one very fat pier was | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
counted for ten votes. It should have lost. And in 1713, we nearly | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
had the same system as in America, where you take the executive out of | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
the legislature. We only didn't because it fell at the very last | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
minute, and there was a tied vote. And tied votes in the House of Lords | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
do not go forward. It is only up to 1800. The second volume is out in | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
September. Let's look at the state of the Labour Party. Rumblings from | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
within. MPs saying that they cannot imagine Ed Miliband as a future | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
Prime Minister, what do you make of it? I really can imagine him as | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
Prime Minister. In a sense, the history work that I have been doing | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
has helped. I think there are lots of ways of being a leader. Winston | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
Churchill and Clement Attlee, completely different in personal | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
style, I would say come and Attlee was the better Prime Minister. But | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
you have got to inspire your troops? I and so often he has been the | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
person who has occupied the political territory first, which | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
everybody else has though of -- everybody else has then clambered | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
onto. What about letters saying that he needs to be more radical? For You | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
always get letters. If people like you are calling for Labour at a | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
critical time to be more credible and radical, what are you trying to | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
say about the Labour leadership? People like me will always be | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
saying, where is the big idea? There is one bit nobody ever comments on | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
and that is that we have a fixed term parliament. By now normally all | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
of these programmes would be about, are we going to have a general | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
election in three weeks time? It is much more difficult for the | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
opposition. If you lay out your policy platform to early, there is a | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
danger all of the good things get nicked by the government and the bad | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
things get torn apart. There is more to come. People were critical last | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
summer about where Labour was going and whether we had enough on the | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
plate. The Labour Party conference showed Ed Miliband's team can pull | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
it out when it is necessary. Very successful conference with you | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
saying on telly, I think we have to many announcements from the Labour | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
Party. Surely not! I will be checking that. In a moment, we'll | :32:02. | :32:12. | |
speak to Tom Newton Dunn from the Sun and Kate Devlin from the Herald. | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
There they are on College Green outside the Houses of Parliament. | :32:17. | :32:19. | |
First, let's have a look at what's happening in Westminster this week. | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
Later today MPs will be debating the Wales Bill that gives new powers to | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
Cardiff. There are likely to be calls for more to be transferred in | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
response to the referendum on Scottish independence. | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
On Tuesday, the main event in the Commons is the Finance Bill that | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
introduces all the big changes from the Budget, including the latest | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
increase in the tax- free personal allowance. On Wednesday night, we'll | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
all be watching the second and final debate between Nick Clegg and Nigel | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
Farage over the EU. The polls called the first one for Farage so we'll | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
see if Clegg can swing it for the pro-Europeans at 7pm on BBC Two. And | :32:53. | :33:01. | |
on Thursday, George Osborne is in front of the Treasury Select | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
Committee where he's likely to be questioned on everything from his | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
Budget to the sell off of the Royal Mail. Let's start by talking about | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
the state of the campaign against Scottish independence. Who is the | :33:13. | :33:20. | |
mole who has let the cat out of the bag, Kate Devlin? They are searching | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
for him but nobody knows yet. Number 10 suggested this morning their | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
energies would going to making the case for the union. Insiders have | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
told me David Cameron is more keen to make the argument and keep the | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
eyes on the prize, it is more important to win the referendum than | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
necessarily find the mole. That does not mean there could not be informal | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
discussions with ministers. Is it not just a truism that of course | :33:55. | :33:56. | |
there is talking behind-the-scenes but they do not want to say so in | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
public? Of course not. I will go further and put my head on the | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
block. I think it is between Oliver Letwin and Vince Cable. We thought | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
it was Philip Hammond yesterday. Yesterday he said, was it you? I | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
don't think so. The construction in the words, what do we do about | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
Trident nuclear missiles? It is a silly phrase that he would not use. | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
Oliver Letwin and Vince Cable, they always say silly things. The point | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
of this is that it is a good talker. That is a plus for the Yes campaign. | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
It gives them undermining to do. At the end of the day, it will not | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
undermine the main argument about currency union. Scots still will not | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
know is the point. They will not know whether we take the pound away | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
from them until it comes along and that is probably enough for them not | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
to take the risk. Do you think the better -- the better together | :35:05. | :35:13. | |
campaigners laddering? -- the Better Together campaign is floundering? | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
Now you are starting to hear beginnings of this rambling from | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
Labour and thes as well. There is an awful lot of pressure on the | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
campaign and the argument they have maimed too negative a case for the | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
union. As the weekend has shown, there is a fundamental | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
misunderstanding. The Better Together campaign and Alistair | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
Darling cannot win the referendum alone. There is a complex | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
relationship with all of the key players. The idea that Number 10 and | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
the Scottish Government would take a back-seat in the past couple of | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
weeks running up to the referendum is nonsense. What they do and the | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
noises that come out of London and Edinburgh could swing it. Let us | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
talk about Labour. Are they in trouble. The polls have narrowed. | :36:02. | :36:09. | |
Rumblings within the party. Economic policy to counter growth under the | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
government. Are they in trouble? Yes, I think they are. Not terminal, | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
they can turn around and do enough to get Ed Miliband his cherished | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
overall majority in 13 months time. They have got to get on with it. My | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
diagnosis is that they have spent almost four years now stroking | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
themselves, doing the easy bit, opposing, shouting about the | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
government's terrible unfairness on this and that. They have not come up | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
with alternatives. The reason is not because it is easier to not come up | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
with real, credible alternatives to grab readers of the Sun perhaps, but | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
also because it is very hard to unite around a single thing that you | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
may well have five different opinions on if you believe some | :37:01. | :37:08. | |
commentators. It is easy to night around nothing. -- unite around | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
nothing. It is only when you start putting out policy ideas, big | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
radical things like taking on the banks, energy price freeze, then you | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
have people disagreeing. What do you think? I agree. They have started to | :37:22. | :37:29. | |
do that this weekend. A chance to remind voters of this idea of | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
reducing tuition fees to ?6,000 which was first floated in 2011 at | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
the conference. They are trying to get these kind of ideas out there. | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
The question is whether they have left it too late. Some Labour MPs | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
worried at around this time ahead of the 2010 general election, the | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
charge was that voters did not know enough about what David Cameron | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
stood for. David Cameron did not win that election of course. Very | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
interesting. Thank you very much. We are joined for the rest of the | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
programme by Jake Berry from the Conservatives, Labour's Shabana | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
Mahmood and Annette Brook from the Liberal Democrats. You may think | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
they're looking a little nervous and you'd be right. Chris Bryant is | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
still here and he's got a short quiz for our MPs to see just how much | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
they know about their place of work. Chris, over to you. Thank you. Who | :38:26. | :38:34. | |
was the Prime Minister throughout the American War of Independence? | :38:35. | :38:42. | |
Silence. I think this is a good way of selling us a couple of your book! | :38:43. | :38:52. | |
A compelling case to read the book. Lord North. What year was the act of | :38:53. | :39:06. | |
union with Scotland? 1603. No. 1707. Where is the last place outside of | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
London that Parliament has sat? Have a guess. York. No. Birmingham. Very | :39:12. | :39:26. | |
loyal. Oxford in 1681. Who was the longest serving Prime Minister of | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
the UK? William Fittall. A little trick on this question. -- William | :39:34. | :39:43. | |
Pitt. It is the Earl of Liverpool, one of the forgotten prime | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
ministers. Put these in order of seniority from the most junior to | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
the most senior. Marquis, Earl, juke, barren and Viscount. Baron, | :39:53. | :40:06. | |
Viscount, Perl, Marquis, juke. Well done! How did you know that one? You | :40:07. | :40:15. | |
would expect the Conservatives to get that right. You failed on that | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
one. You have bucked the party political trend. Were you | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
surprised? They were the easy ones. I sent 12 and there were more | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
difficult ones. The difficulty is that for the most part we boast | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
about British history and many of us do not know much. It is vast in | :40:40. | :40:48. | |
terms of how much you have to know. URA historian. It is a strong | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
argument for having a broader National Curriculum. I did not take | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
history up to a level which is shameful and makes me very nervous | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
about these questions. There are curiouser things like people think | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
that women were always banned from voting until the 20th century. Women | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
voted previously. It was only in 1832 that it explicitly said only | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
men could vote. Women were able to vote for a Luxton is -- vote for | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
elections for Sexton 's and things like that. You have shamed us. | :41:27. | :41:34. | |
Volume two is out in September. Enough publicity! We have gone from | :41:35. | :41:45. | |
being the daily Potter looks just like with the Daily Politics to the | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
Chris Bryant book show. The impact of climate change, we are told it is | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
going to be severe, evasive and irreversible. It comes from a report | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
published by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
Change which argues that nobody on the planet is going to be untouched | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
by the problem. However, it's not all doom and gloom and the study | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
does emphasise that things can be done to mitigate the worst of the | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
effects. I'm joined now by Tom Mitchell, head of climate change at | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
the Overseas Development Institut, an independent think-tank of | :42:19. | :42:19. | |
international development and humanitarian issues. Welcome. What | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
did you think of the report? I think it is the single most complete study | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
ever conducted on the impacts of climate change. It was completed | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
over seven years involving nearly 600 authors and covering about | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
12,000 scientific articles. It is a truly impressive piece of work. It | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
does provide us with some very clear messages about the future Thomas on | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
calling it doom laden. -- about the future, some calling it doom laden. | :42:51. | :42:58. | |
Is it a llama 's? Human systems are at stake if action is not taken -- | :42:59. | :43:06. | |
is it alarmist? It sounds apocalyptic. It is but for very good | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
reason. We have seen evidence from across the studies to show as those | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
things are correct. Let us review some of the key messages. For the | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
UK, more heat waves are more droughts, water shortages and we | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
will see more flood events caused by extreme reciprocation. Overseas, we | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
may see food shortages, it may impact on our pockets in the | :43:29. | :43:35. | |
supermarket. Climate change may exacerbate conflict causing | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
insecurity and more migration. The messages are serious. They are there | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
for us to take account of. As I said, if we act now, we can avoid | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
the worst. What should politicians do? Politicians in the UK | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
historically have had a good track record of working on climate change. | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
The climate change Bill gives us very clear indications of what we | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
need to do in terms of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. We have | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
invested in flood defences, maybe not enough. The track record is | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
good. The last period, some would argue, has not seen such good | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
progress. We have got to stay on track and provide resources. In the | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
UK, because it might be deemed as tomorrow's problem, we may not | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
always invest in the way we need to. Is it inarguable now that I'm a | :44:31. | :44:38. | |
change is man-made? -- that climate change is man-made? 14,000 academic | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
studies on climate change, less than 1%, 0.7% have ever questioned | :44:43. | :44:51. | |
climate change as a Norman. -- as a Norman. The evidence is as strong as | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
the links between smoking and lung cancer. It is just a different | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
timescale, politicians can kick it down the track. This report says it | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
has got to stop and action needs to be taken now. | :45:07. | :45:16. | |
Do you agree with the report? Absolutely. Anyone who read this | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
report this morning, or listen on the radio, like I did, will know | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
that it is absolutely stark. This is an issue we have to deal with today, | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
because the consequences in several decades was no time will be huge. | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
The additions traditionally like getting their hands dirty, sorting | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
the economy out. -- politicians. This kind of longer term problems | :45:43. | :45:51. | |
for 50-100 years ahead takes a lot more political will, and cross-party | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
support, to make sure that we get a good, long-term plan for dealing | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
with the problems of climate change. As the Government shied away from | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
making decisions because of austerity, and because we heard from | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
George Osborne saying he did not want to take any unilateral action | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
because it was not affordable, do you think that is going to store up | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
problems in the future? I think we have made good progress in this | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
party. We said we would be the greenest government ever. And we | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
have cut the amount of energy the Government uses by 10%, just in four | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
years. We have launched the green investment bank, we are building new | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
nuclear power stations to move away from fossil fuels. But you are | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
scrapping the green levy. The Prime Minister has boasted about the fact | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
that the eco-levy is going to go, so that people's energy bills will come | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
down - was that the right thing to do? We have to make things | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
affordable for the taxpayer. People have a real issue with energy | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
bills, and I think it has been the right thing to do to help people | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
have a reduction of about 15-?20 a month. Do you agree with that? If it | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
was going to be the greenest government ever, and critics would | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
dispute that, why is it that you as Liberal Democrats have signed up to | :47:05. | :47:14. | |
scrapping the green levy? Coalition is a matter of negotiation. If we | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
were governing alone, I think decisions might have been different. | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
I would describe us as being a green government, but I would have liked a | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
stronger measures to remain. We do have a real conflict between | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
affecting the poorest and most vulnerable people in our society at | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
the moment and tackling climate change. What I think is the big | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
thing we have to grapple with is coming in with the necessary | :47:41. | :47:42. | |
measures, but putting proper protection in. I just think while we | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
have got so many hits on welfare payments at the moment, it is really | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
difficult to get the balance. It is something I am quite uncomfortable | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
with, but I would say, we have a proud record, the doubling of energy | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
by renewable sources, for example, but also, what is important to me is | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
the fact of being in Europe, being at the table, taking a leading role | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
in negotiating EU targets on carbon emissions. Very, very important to | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
tackle climate change across Europe. Do you agree with that? We | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
do not want to get into a debate about the European Union. But I | :48:25. | :48:26. | |
think it is right, on the issue of Europe, but we need to get out and | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
make a positive argument about why we should stay in Europe, which is | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
what I believe. But politicians should not be scared of the | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
electorate, it should be for the British people to decide. Let's have | :48:40. | :48:41. | |
that referendum, which the Conservatives have promised, in | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
2017, and put the issue to bed for the next 50 years. The trouble is, | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
in austerity, who should pay for these measures, for green measures? | :48:52. | :49:01. | |
The truth is that the green agenda presents us with incredible | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
opportunities for growth. So, the green economy is one of the few | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
areas where actually we have a positive balance of trade with | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
China, for example. So, if there was more will from this government, we | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
could use this as a real opportunity to boost skills and wages, get those | :49:16. | :49:21. | |
high skilled, high wage jobs which our economy will need. It is a false | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
choice to say it is one or the other. I am astonished at the | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
attempt by Jake to rewrite the history of his own government's time | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
in office. This is a government and Prime Minister which does not know | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
from one week to the next whether they believe in man-made climate | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
change or not. One week we will hear about Breen things, the next we will | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
hear, it is all green rubbish. This government does not know what it is | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
doing. Actually, the green agenda requires consistently do ship, and I | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
do not think we have had that from David Cameron. If we look at the | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
leader of the opposition, who was Energy Secretary in the last | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
government, his record is not as good as the record this government | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
has had in power. What about the rhetoric about weeing crap, that | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
does not give a clear message, does it? -- green crap. Well, factually, | :50:11. | :50:18. | |
we are the greenest government ever. We have reduced the amount of energy | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
we use as a government. Was that the right rhetoric to use? It is all | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
about making our businesses competitive, it is not about | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
increasing people's energy bills, it is about a long-term solution, make | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
sure that Britain remains... Can I just come in? We have set up the | :50:38. | :50:45. | |
green investment bank. How much has actually been loaned out from that | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
bank? We are now talking about billions. The loans are beginning to | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
go out as we speak. They are going to local authorities for renewing | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
their street lighting. We know that 35,000 green jobs have been | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
created, and I would hope to see very many more. I think out of all | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
deep recessions, there is a type of industry which comes through, and in | :51:08. | :51:14. | |
this one, I personally want to see the green sector grow and grow. We | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
have got our investment in offshore wind, for example, massive | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
investment in renewables, and lots of exciting green projects across | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
the country, including one, a major recycling plant, in my constituency. | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
The Green Party criticises the Government all the time, saying the | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
rhetoric is not directed at policies which would make a big difference, | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
do you accept that? I just feel as a nation, we are not grasping the | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
immediacy of this. I am really concerned for my grandchild. It does | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
mean actually getting the message out there, not shying away from it. | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
This is something which has got to be tackled now. But as we have | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
suggested, we have got to get the right balance between taxation and | :52:01. | :52:02. | |
protect young people on lower incomes. This does sound alarmist, | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
whether it is right or wrong, and for a lot of people, they will just | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
think, there is nothing I can do about it, there is nothing I can do | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
to affect what is inevitable to some extent. It is up to governments, it | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
is to other countries. Well, actually, I think there is an | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
appetite in the country for people to think about the changes they | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
could make in their own daily lives, which would contribute towards lower | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
emissions, and as becoming more green, as an economy, as a nation. | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
There is a responsibility on government to make the case to the | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
public about the kinds of changes we need to make. But that requires | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
leadership. We are not going to hit the climate change target for 2020, | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
are we, that has gone already? And obviously, there is concern that the | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
Liberal Democrats had to accept a watering down of the 2030 target, | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
but we do have the proviso in the energy bill so that it can be | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
implemented in 2016. There is a great deal of effort going in to | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
meet the European targets, and that is really important. We have got a | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
good enough record that we can hold our heads up high, and we have got | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
China bringing in targets now, that has to be good progress. But on your | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
point about investment, it was fantastic last week to see all of | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
those new jobs created in the north-east, with the wind turbine | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
plant, building them here in Britain. That is what we have got to | :53:36. | :53:37. | |
focus on. Parents who deny their children | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
affection could face prosecution under new proposals the Government | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
is considering this morning. It follows a campaign for a so-called | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
"Cinderella law" from the charity Action for Children. They argue that | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
whilst there's legislation already in place for physical abuse, | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
emotional abuse can cause significant harm and more needs to | :53:55. | :54:01. | |
be done to clamp down on it. Joining me now is a representative of Action | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
for Children. How exactly will this be enforced or proved? So, emotional | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
abuse can be noticed now, and it is noticed, particularly through the | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
care system, with specialist child psychiatrists and others sporting | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
the signs of emotional harm and harm which is done. We are asking for | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
that expertise to be applied to the other side of the law, which is the | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
criminal law. The UK is one of the only countries in the Western world | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
which does not include all forms of child abuse in its child protection | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
legislation. What we have been asking for over the last three years | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
is for this to be updated. The law as it stands dates back to 1933. We | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
have been working with political parties across the spectrum to look | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
at an alternative. We have spoken to police, social workers and others | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
about what we can do to close this loophole. But will it lead to people | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
reporting their neighbours or friends to social services and | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
police for spurious reasons? We need to be very clear that this is not | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
about prosecuting struggling parents, or a debate about good or | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
bad parenting. When we mean child abuse, we are talking about cruelty, | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
people who resist attempts to help them, people who resist attempts | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
made by organisations such as Action for Children to improve parenting | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
capacity and skill. In most cases, parents are able to improve their | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
parenting skills. But in some small number of cases, we have to be ready | :55:34. | :55:35. | |
for the prospect that there are people who seek to intentionally | :55:36. | :55:43. | |
abuse do you support the measure? I think it is a good thing if the law | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
is updated to include the full range of abuse which children might suffer | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
from, including emotional neglect and emotional abuse, which can have | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
just as devastating an impact on a child is physical or sexual abuse, | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
which we talk about a lot more. I think it is good that the law should | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
reflect behaviour which we find to be unacceptable, and which can | :56:04. | :56:06. | |
attract punishment in the criminal law. Why has it not been introduced | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
before, it sounds like we are way behind in terms of legislation in | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
this area? Can I start by saying that Action for Children have run a | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
fantastic campaign. Anyone who has been getting the Tube into | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
Westminster will have seen their campaign about the law not having | :56:24. | :56:31. | |
been updated for 80 years. We believe it is imperative that we do | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
everything we can to protect our children. I think it is a welcome | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
development in the law. I think it will empower local authority social | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
workers, with the fantastic work they do, to have full criminal, | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
legal protection behind them to go out and protect children. Do you | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
back it as well? I do, I was a sponsor of the private members' | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
bill. Obviously, the Government listened carefully and took it away | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
to look at how practical it was to introduce it. How big a problem is | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
it averaged what I think this is, it is one more tool in actually making | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
sure our children are protected properly. It is obviously difficult | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
to gather evidence when we are talking about emotional abuse. But | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
when you think of child neglect, the baby lying there with no interaction | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
whatsoever, of course, the first step is to put lots of support in | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
parenting skills in, but there comes a point where it goes beyond that. I | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
think this will help all agencies to work together. Time after time, we | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
get these serious case reviews, and it is the same story. I think this | :57:39. | :57:47. | |
is going to put it on the radar. Tragically, we still have these | :57:48. | :57:50. | |
cases which are every now and then brought to light. With the openness | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
and transparency, compared to decades ago, why are these things | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
still happening, will this really impact on the state of children who | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
are genuinely neglected? We have do continually look at the systems | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
which are in place. In lots of the cases which have come into the | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
media, we have had multi-agency meetings, with all of the key | :58:12. | :58:14. | |
players getting into a room to speak together. Sometimes when you read | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
those reports, it is as if nothing has happened. These meetings should | :58:20. | :58:31. | |
not just be a talking shop. In terms of adding in this idea of emotional | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
neglect, we have to make sure that we have guidelines for | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
practitioners, and we have to trust in the instincts of social workers | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
and police officers at the coal face. We | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
That's all for today. Thanks to our guests. The One O'Clock News is | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
starting over on BBC One now. | :58:51. | :58:54. |