Browse content similar to 19/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Politics. AstraZeneca rejects what Pfizer says is its last offer to | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
splash its cash on its British rival, but will shareholders be able | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
to resist the offer? family doctors in the driving seat, | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
but will they be as good at running the health service as keeping us | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
healthy? Ed Miliband says the minimum wage should be linked to | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
average earnings, but what should the link bait? | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
average earnings, but what should insist UKIP, the party is accused of | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
harbouring homophobes and bigots and racists, but are the other parties | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
any better? All that in the next hour, and with | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
this for the first half of the programme today is the chair of the | :01:28. | :01:37. | |
Royal Court of GPs, Maureen Baker. Let's start with the proposed | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
takeover of AstraZeneca by its US rival, Pfizer. This morning the | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
board of AstraZeneca has rejected what is described as a final offer | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
that values the business at ?69 billion. Does that mean is this the | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
end of the affair? Let's speak to Simon Jack, does it mean the end of | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
the affair? Very probably yes, Jo. The shares have fallen very sharply, | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
down about 13%, and that tells us most people think the deal is dead | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
in the water. As you say, they offered ?55 per share, and it seems | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
they got pretty close on price, because previous offers were | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
described as woefully undervalued. This was just inadequate, so a | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
little bit more might have got the board to talk to them, that it would | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
be very unusual now for a company to come back, having said this was a | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
final offer, to come back with more. The takeover panel would take a dim | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
view of that. One possibility which remains is that shareholders who | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
have seen that share price fall and are looking at a price which is | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
about 25% lower than they were being offered by Pfizer have a week to | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
think, do you know what? Maybe this is not such a bad a day after all. | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
Imagine that they do reconsider the proposal, ultimately it is for the | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
shareholders to decide. What is the analysis of Labour saying they would | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
block the takeover if they were to win the next election and if they | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
felt the deal was not in the country's best interest? Is that | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
significant? I am not sure it is, because in the conversations I have | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
had, that has not come up since Ed Miliband mentioned it. It could be | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
the shareholders' fault, they do not tend to think politically, and it | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
maybe it should have been on their agenda, but I do not expect it will | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
make any short-term difference. What impact will it have on other | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
businesses trying to take over British companies and, in terms of | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
using Vince Cable's words, being open for business as a country? One | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
thing that will be interesting is to see where the debate goes on the | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
public interest test, because there was talk of introducing an extra | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
limb to that public interest test. We already have it for national | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
security, media plurality and competition. But if you were added | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
to something like scientific jobs or key industries, he would have to go | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
to the European Commission to get them to agree to it. That would be | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
quite an interesting prospect, to see them deciding what the UK | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
thought its own national interest was. It would allow some | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
Eurosceptics to make mischief, but it won't make any short-term | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
difference. In your mind, Maureen, should politicians intervene in | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
cases where companies are trying to take over British companies? It does | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
seem to me that if there is a legitimate interest in the country, | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
and for the sake of the good of the population, that we have a | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
particular industry or number of industries, then that seems | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
reasonable, that politicians could take up on that. What about the | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
public interest test? This phrase has been used particularly by | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
Labour. If you were worried about a foreign company taking over a | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
company here, what would you want included in that test? Well, the... | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
Again, the difficulty is in the definition, isn't it? If we take the | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
AstraZeneca case, this country has got a very considerable scientific | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
and research infrastructure that provides a lot of jobs, brings a lot | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
of income into the country, and it also helps support as being a good | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
place to study. So there is a lot of ramifications in having a good | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
scientific and research base, and therefore developments that | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
undermine that space, I would think they do have a public interest | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
ramifications. Will you be pleased if the deal is dead in the water? | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
Personally, I will be. I think it is better for us to have UK-based big | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
pharmaceutical companies. What about the issue of investment? Because | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
that is what other politicians and business people will say that a | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
company like AstraZeneca needs an awful lot of investment and money to | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
continue developing drugs. Yes, and again this is a question for | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
politicians, from whatever party - how can they best support UK | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
business, UK interests? And therefore there should be ways in | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
which governments can help support investment in key industries. OK, | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
let's leave it there. Here on the Daily Politics we like to ask the | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
difficult questions. How do you solve a problem like Maria? At what | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
point does a pond become a lake? What was the best thing before | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
sliced bread? But one question's answer has eluded us, what is the | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
structure of the new NHS? Giles is here to help us understand. | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
All of us have a sense of the health service, and most of us at some | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
point we'll use it, which is why our governments, including the | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
coalition, are careful to be seen to cherish it. But this Government has | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
been keen to radically change the NHS. To some, it is a real | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
revolution. To others, the destruction of the service before | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
your eyes. But the idea had one very big focus - the Secretary of State | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
wanted doctors in charge. Up until September 2012, Andrew Lansley, | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
architect of the reforms and driver of them in government, looked hard | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
at the NHS and diagnosed a Beijing case of bureaucracy, and it was that | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
bad. Inclinations delivering the best care. -- it was that stopping | :07:26. | :07:34. | |
clinicians. He wanted to put money into the hands of GPs. The problem | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
for Andrew Lansley was the reforms were watered down in the face of | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
opposition, consultation and eventually political surgery. Jeremy | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
Hunt scrubbed up as the Secretary of State for help after the | :07:48. | :07:49. | |
blood-letting of a reshuffle, and the new system he presides over is | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
far more complex than the original idea. It is based on around 200 | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
clinical commissioning groups, CCGs, spending around 65 billion of | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
the NHS's 100 billion budget. These are made up of GPs, nurses, hospital | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
input and the public, who go shopping in approved marketplaces | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
for health services, but there are all sorts of bodies. They all help, | :08:16. | :08:24. | |
advice or check the whole process. The reforms are very complicated, | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
and a lot of people are having to learn new roles and | :08:30. | :08:31. | |
responsibilities. Specialised commissioning turned out to be more | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
complicated than people thought. We have just seen in the last few weeks | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
the new chief executive of NHS England beginning to change the way | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
that the commissioning for GPs services works, trying to get CCGs | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
more on the page to help work out the best way to deliver primary | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
care. Now, I could explain the system further, because it is | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
usually complex, but it is GPs we are focusing on today, because the | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
primary carers are still commissioned and paid for by NHS | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
England, a body that was going to be smaller and more nimble but is | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
actually still vast. Doctors do very well out of this arrangement. GPs | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
are still, in many ways, at the heart of the system, but as bodies | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
learn a new ways they interact, either GPs have complained too much | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
is expected of them or other clinicians have said doctors simply | :09:24. | :09:25. | |
do not have the monopoly on expertise. In government, there is a | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
feeling it has become like a reverse doctor joke. Minister, Minister, I | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
feel like an overworked cash! Sorry, doctor, you will just have to handle | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
the change. Who better to discuss the NHS with | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
us than our guest of the day, who has been a GP since 1985? It does | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
look hideously complicated when demonstrated in that way, Maureen, | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
GPs are now in the driving seat, in so far as the NHS in England, 66% of | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
money is channelled through these new local health authorities, the | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
commissioning care groups. Are you the ones that we should hold to | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
account if it goes wrong? Well, GPs are the people to hold to account | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
for the part of that for which they are responsible, so even issues of | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
the 66 billion, there are large chunks of that money that are not | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
negotiable, that come out as a tranche. And basically GPs and CCGs | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
then get to try to do the best with what is left. So it is all a bit | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
misleading. You have demonstrated how complicated it looks. It is at | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
least as complicated as it looks! But an awful lot of money you are | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
being entrusted with, a very large chunk of money that you are | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
responsible for - if it goes wrong, GPs should be carrying the can. CCGs | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
are comprised of GPs and others, and they are the statutory body, without | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
their having been any choice in that. That is the way the | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
regulations had worked. Would you rather not have had the | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
responsibility? We would rather not, but having got it, my colleagues are | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
trying to do the best they can in the system we now have. How | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
reassured can we be by your comments? You are interested with | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
the money, how do we know you will spend it wisely if you were | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
reluctant to take on the responsibility? Indeed, but it was | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
not a matter over which there was choice, so having been given the | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
responsibility. In the interests of patients and the public, colleagues | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
in CCGs are doing their best, and actually at the end of the first | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
year, it does appear that, by and large, they are doing a pretty good | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
job. Very few CCGs have gone into deficit, for instance, as opposed | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
to, you know, many other parts of the NHS in other sectors. So they | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
are doing a good job with the job they have been given. NHS spending | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
per head is said to reduce by 9% per year, what should the NHS stop | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
doing? The NHS needs to stop spending its money downstream, at | :12:08. | :12:16. | |
the last end. Meaning? Meaning we spend too much money in the acute | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
sector, where people don't want to be, where we are doing unnecessary | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
interventions. We need to be much more downstream with the money, and | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
use the money more appropriately across health economies. When you | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
say acute, what do you mean, in the acute section? The acute sector is | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
mainly hospitals and district General... So too much is being | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
spent on hospitals? Too much on hospitals, but basically, if we are | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
able to use the money better, we should be able to have better | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
services for patients at or near home, and have less people in | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
hospital for shorter times, therefore meaning they need less | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
money. But when it comes to hospitals, part of the reason is | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
that people are going to A, looking at another area of the NHS, | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
because they cannot get appointments with their GP easily or when they | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
want them. In fact, a few things there. The evidence shows that the | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
pressure in A department is largely due to people being very | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
ill, turning up, often in ambulances, and not being able to | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
flow through the hospital. But there is a significant proportion as a | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
result of, it is a weekend, there is no GP. Well, in fact, there are out | :13:45. | :13:51. | |
of hours GPs... Not widespread. Every area in the country does have | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
a GP out of hours service. There are a whole number of reasons about it | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
not being well understood, people do not know the best way to go, it is | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
too complicated, but putting that aside, there is a proportion which, | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
by the way, has not changed over the last ten or 15 years, of patients | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
who will go to A because they feel it is more convenient. But in terms | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
of whether that is because of the acute pressure in A departments, | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
no, it isn't. Let's have a look at the Labour promise to get an | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
appointment at your GP within 48 hours. Do you support that? We | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
support the aspiration. Getting back to this business people not being | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
able to get an appointment, we believe it is really important that | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
people have the access to the skills of their GP in that practice when | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
they need. However, the... We have, in the last five years, in general | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
practice, had a significant decrease in funding in actual terms, in cash, | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
against a context of an increasing number of appointments delivered, | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
and the demand for that. And the service is spread incredibly thin. | :15:09. | :15:17. | |
GP's salary could give, they earn an average of ?105,000 per year, 600 | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
are on more than ?200,000 per year, a very big salary, just by general | :15:22. | :15:31. | |
comparison. You could give on that. These are average salaries for | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
partners. There are others who are not partners. The Royal College of | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
GPs opposed the pledge by Prime Minister is to see surgeries open | :15:42. | :15:49. | |
8am until 8pm and at weekends. We do not have enough GPs actually. Even | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
the salaries you were talking about, GPs are leaving the service, they | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
are going abroad, going into other careers. The biggest constraint in | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
terms of delivering GP appointments is the number of GPs, and support | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
staff in surgeries. That is the biggest problem which is why we do | :16:11. | :16:19. | |
not believe a 48 hour access pledge can be achieved. | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
Is it a headline, guaranteeing appointments? The Sun people it | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
would seem like a legitimate aspiration. | :16:30. | :16:31. | |
It can't be achieved with the resources we have. You want more | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
money? We want more staff. That does need to come with more money. It is | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
not just salaries, it is what sits beneath that. | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
Well, one, potentially controversial, | :16:51. | :16:51. | |
way to cut costs would be to get people to pay to visit the GP. | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
Our correspondent, Hugh Schofield, joins me now | :16:56. | :16:57. | |
from Paris where a form of GP charging is firmly established. | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
Talk us through the system operating in Paris? | :17:03. | :17:11. | |
It is, as you say, a system where you bring out the cheque book to see | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
the doctor. It is a generous system but this is not free at the point of | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
access. I have a local GP I can go and see pretty much any day, he will | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
even come and visit me at home. Every time he does, I write out a | :17:29. | :17:40. | |
cheque. 23 euros for a visit to his office. ?18. I will then get all of | :17:41. | :17:49. | |
that back, except one or two euros, which is to deter those who want to | :17:50. | :17:59. | |
go willy-nilly. It is an insurance system, compulsory insurance | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
system, which means you pay up and you get back. | :18:05. | :18:06. | |
What are the benefits of that social insurance system? The benefits to | :18:07. | :18:17. | |
you and the system there? Does it make it more efficient and | :18:18. | :18:19. | |
cost-effective? I am not sure about cost effective. | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
It certainly makes it efficient. The odd thing about the French system, | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
bethink Britain is being this liberal, free market-based economy. | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
Whereas France is more socialist. In fact, in the health system, it is | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
the reverse. In Britain, we have the NHS set up straight after the war, | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
with socialistic ideology behind it, free provision at the point of | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
access. In France, we have a liberal system. You can set up as a doctor | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
and as long as you are approved and authenticated, you will then be able | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
to charge and get the money back, you will be part of the system. | :19:06. | :19:13. | |
There are plenty of doctors, private individuals operating as doctors, | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
surgeons, specialists. The French love specialists. A lot of people | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
will bypass their GP and go to a specialist, endocrinology, brain | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
problems. Because it is so generous, we have got to a point where it is | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
not affordable. The prospect of raiding expenditure in is | :19:35. | :19:36. | |
politically sensitive. -- reigning. Thomas Cawston is from the think | :19:37. | :19:51. | |
tank Reform, and has authored How would it work? Many health | :19:52. | :20:06. | |
systems are facing a challenge of finding more money to meet growing | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
demand in health care. Around the world, many systems use charges as a | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
supplement for the taxpayer. There are charges for prescription, | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
optometry, dentistry, in the NHS, long-term care. | :20:25. | :20:32. | |
It is a big difference, to put your money directly before the GP. | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
In France, you pay and get your money back eventually. | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
Is that what you are suggesting, you pay into a system, and claim it | :20:43. | :20:51. | |
back, for your appointment? All options should be on the table. | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
We need to find ways of getting money quickly with the least change | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
to the system. You talked about how you need more | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
money, and we talked about salaries as one way of looking at it. What | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
about if you were to charge every patient who came through your door? | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
We would be very concerned. We believe it would strengthen health | :21:16. | :21:22. | |
inequalities. We already struggle, those people with the greatest | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
health needs have the poorest provision. It did Jews and other | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
barrier which would make matters worse. -- it would introduce. A | :21:30. | :21:38. | |
large proportion of people who are on the incomes, they do not paper | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
sketch and chargers. We are familiar with seeing people who are not on | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
benefits but they are struggling on low incomes. You give them a | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
prescription, and they will say there are a fewer items -- there are | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
only one or two items they can afford. | :22:01. | :22:12. | |
Do you reject it? Yes. You do not think it is palatable. Not | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
palatable. What do you say to the idea, which is the obvious question, | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
that the poorest, and healthiest people, they would suffer. Many | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
people find it hard to see a GP at the weekends, in the evenings, there | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
are already barriers to access. If you are on a low income, if you are | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
on work shifts, it would cost you more to see your GP. What about that | :22:47. | :22:55. | |
in response? If you open yourself up as a GP surgery, people would lose | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
less having to take a morning of work. | :23:02. | :23:09. | |
Contracted hours are already 8am until 6:30 pm.. Many practices to | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
open more hours than that. Those hours outside, even though you say | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
you can see a GP, it is not that easy. Would it work? If you are open | :23:21. | :23:30. | |
until nine pm., at weekends, those people would be able to see you at | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
less of a cost to them. If we had enough staff, then, yes, we could | :23:36. | :23:43. | |
and we would want to have more extended and convenient hours for | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
patients. Where you have got enough resources, it doesn't do anyone any | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
good. It destabilises the service. Isn't it a bright product -- isn't | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
it a by-product that everybody would go to accident and emergency? We | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
want to use other forms of health care, pharmacists, going online. | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
People to take care of themselves more. | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
What about the idea of self-medicating? People do see their | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
pharmacist for minor ailments. Pharmacists have terrific skills. | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
They are highly trained professionals in the system. We talk | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
about making the most of the resources we have already got, then | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
definitely pharmacists, community pharmacists have a big role. The | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
days of free at the point of use, the old style of taxing people to | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
pay to cover the NHS, that is fast running out of steam? Bearing in | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
mind some people say we are looking at a ?30 billion deficit in the NHS. | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
It is a question of what we are prepared to pay. In France, they pay | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
11.7% of their GDP in health care. In the UK, we pay 9.4% of our GDP. | :25:13. | :25:20. | |
These are decisions the citizens need to make, about what they are | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
willing to pay, and in what ways they are willing to pay. If we spend | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
more as a proportion of GDP, would that be a more effective way? | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
Remember, the last ten years, health funding doubled in real terms. | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
Parliament has been fenced that budget. We have seen cuts to the | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
police force, local government, services which individuals need as | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
much as health care. Going forward, there is still a challenge with | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
rising demand. To ask the taxpayer to continually fund the NHS, we need | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
to look at other ways. That has to be considered right now. If doctors | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
can encourage patients to use other services. Here is a reminder of what | :26:14. | :26:35. | |
happened with the last elections. A very happy New Year 2009. | :26:36. | :26:43. | |
The UK is in recession for the first time since 1991. | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
An implement has risen above 2 million. | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
The biggest rise in the dole queue since records began. | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
Jobs should not be lost needlessly. The interest rate has been cut once | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
again and is at an all-time low. Lots of people are suffering through | :27:01. | :27:15. | |
lack of money at this moment, why should MPs get away with it will | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
stop I rarely meet anyone who wants to be a member of Parliament. | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
Things have been done which may be feel ashamed to be a member of | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
Parliament. This morning, the Communities | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
Secretary resigned from the cabinet following yesterday 's announcement | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
the Children's Minister is standing down, the Minister for the Cabinet | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
Office is leaving, the Home Secretary is resigning. Why doesn't | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
the prime Minister accepts his ability to command his cabinet has | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
simply disappeared? James Purnell, he is resigning from | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
the government in order to force a leadership ballot. | :27:55. | :28:05. | |
This time, we have come second. We are very pleased. The Labour | :28:06. | :28:15. | |
Party have come third, behind UKIP. Nick Griffin from the BNP. | :28:16. | :28:23. | |
Two BNP MEPs have been elected, or the other parties have been | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
condemning this, and blaming themselves. | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
A reminder of the 2009 European elections. | :28:35. | :28:36. | |
But which parties will prosper this time round? | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
Well, amongst the parties putting up candidates is the | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
I'm joined by one of their number, Danny Lambert. | :28:42. | :28:51. | |
You wrote, parties promising to do things for others is not my idea of | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
politics, so I am not making any promises to do anything for anyone. | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
What is the point of standing? We are a Democratic party, one of the | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
most democratic organisations in the world. Because we have no leaders. | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
In a real democracy, we hold all socially relevant information should | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
be available to everybody. The more people taking part in the democratic | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
process, the more chance you have of getting the best result. So how did | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
they decide you should come on the programme today and not another | :29:30. | :29:31. | |
colleague? I am on the list. You are not the | :29:32. | :29:38. | |
leader. We don't have leaders. Leaders need followers, and | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
followers do not know where they are going. If you are a prospective | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
voter looking at policies you may have, why would they vote for you? | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
You would be voting for yourself. We hold that the National industrial -- | :29:52. | :29:59. | |
natural industrial resources of this planet belong to everybody. All | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
production is socially carried out, so it should be socially | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
administered in the interests of the whole community. | :30:09. | :30:19. | |
their real identities as human beings, when they abandon these | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
periods identities of colour, nationalism, all this nonsense that | :30:25. | :30:31. | |
only exist in our imagination. -- these spurious. Now, in a family | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
that functions, if it is to be a real family, the ethic, the | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
socialist principle, is followed, from each according to ability, to | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
each according to need. The great thing about having a common identity | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
with a common interest is that you cannot abuse or exploit or oppress | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
those you have identified with. All you can do is cooperate, we are so | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
much better when we go operate than when we compete. I dispute some of | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
your views about human nature, you say that some people might choose to | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
drive a bus or train, or become a scientist. What if the doctors and | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
engineers decide they only want to work a few hours a week? Well, I | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
mean... The thing is, we have been listening to all these problems that | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
face... Let me finish, you know, with the health service, funding, | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
and the problem with our society, because it is a commercial society, | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
we are so busy taking care of business, we don't have time to take | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
care of ourselves. William Morris pointed out it is more expensive to | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
sell something than it is to make. If we had a society where production | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
was only carried out to meet human need, we wouldn't need all the | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
banking, insurance, taxation, advertising, the military-industrial | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
complex... But it hasn't worked, has it? That form of socialism has never | :31:56. | :34:00. | |
worked. Well, you The problem is he's not going to put a figure on | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
it, he is going to take a percentage of other peopleearnings. What about | :34:06. | :34:13. | |
those people on the minimum wage? If he finds a way to explain it, it | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
could be quite powerful. Lots of people feel their wages have lagged | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
behind inflation. Do you think this will be popular | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
with voters, not just ahead of the European elections, but in general? | :34:31. | :34:39. | |
I am not sure how much traction it will have with people. It does fit | :34:40. | :34:56. | |
in with Ed Miliband's message. We want a decent minimum. Maybe a | :34:57. | :35:06. | |
stronger message would be ensuring proper enforcement to stop employers | :35:07. | :35:20. | |
illegally paying exploitative wages. To get people back into work. I am | :35:21. | :35:31. | |
not sure it is a big offer in the way Ed Miliband says. | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
And what about the UKIP bandwagon? And what about the UKIP | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
UKIP is appealing to two different type of voters, the core UKIP | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
support who feel enthusiastically politicians of all types can let | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
them down and Nigel Farage is their man. This kind of person will not be | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
swayed by him getting attacked on LBC or the BBC or mainstream | :35:57. | :35:58. | |
broadcasters. That plays into the broadcasters. That plays into | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
feeling that they are a bunch of renegades. What Nigel Farage has | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
managed to do recently is broaden his appeal beyond that group, to | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
people who might be otherwise be floating voters. Those people might | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
look at what he has said, at the coverage in the newspapers, there | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
will be readers thinking of voting UKIP but they may think, you know | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
what, he is still too dangerous for me. | :36:36. | :36:46. | |
parties, if they were minded to exploit this further ahead of the | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
European elections, this will only come into play looking ahead to the | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
general election? I think they would have loved this particular row to | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
happen two weeks ago, I think he is right about the floating voters. I | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
think it will energise the main party machines to get the vote out. | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
There are postal votes, of course, they have already gone in. I | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
personally love the romance of the ballot box, I'm not being sarcastic, | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
but a lot of people do not. So they have posted in their vote, and a lot | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
of people may have chosen UKIP, if they have organised their postal | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
voting campaign well. That will have made no difference at all. Thank you | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
to both of you, have a good week, enjoy the elections. | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
As we were hearing, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has had to fend | :37:40. | :38:55. | |
Let's take a look at what some Conservatives have been up to. | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
In February, a councillor had to apologise | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
after using racist language in an interview on BBC radio Bristol. | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
In March a councillor in Enfield was suspended after posting alleged | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
And only last week, another of their candidates in Enfield was revealed | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
to have had a previous suspended prison sentence for benefit fraud. | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
And Lib Dems haven't been much better at staying out of trouble. | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
In March, one of their councillors was convicted | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
of racially aggravated assault, after telling a migrant barman to | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
Also in March, a councillor in Somerset was given | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
a community sentence, after stealing over ?1,200 from his local | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
And this is what some Labour politicians have been up to. | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
In January, two Labour councillors in Luton were suspended | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
by the party for allegedly posting racist comments on Facebook. | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
And five Labour councillors in Middlesborough resigned | :39:40. | :39:41. | |
from the party earlier this month, citing issues with the selection | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
Even the Greens aren't immune from this. | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
In 2011, a candidate in Ilford was suspended | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
In 2012, a Green Party councillor in Norwich was jailed for arson. | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
And, last year, a Green candidate in Blackheath was | :40:01. | :40:08. | |
criticised after posting offensive comments on Twitter, following | :40:09. | :40:10. | |
So, are the mainstream media unfairly | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
singling out UKIP candidates for criticism, with the established | :40:14. | :40:15. | |
Or, has the balance been about right? | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
I'm joined now for the rest of the programme by Conservative MP | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
Tim Loughton, Liberal Democrat Tom Brake, Labour's David Lammy, | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
Having listened to that list of offences, a counsellor in Enfield | :40:26. | :40:45. | |
for the Conservatives, suspended. Another candidate accused of benefit | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
fraud. Is it a case UKIP is worse than the other parties? | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
All parties are made up of ordinary people, and there are unsavoury | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
people in them. The important thing is what the parties do about them. | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
In all those cases, we acted resolutely with those people. With | :41:07. | :41:16. | |
UKIP, now, they are much more a national force, a prospect of | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
scoring well in the forthcoming elections, they are being put under | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
scrutiny. Not just individual members but senior people are | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
standing for election, and Nigel Farage actually saying some | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
unsavoury things, which are deeply worrying. Which is the worst party? | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
Recent evidence has shown that they are. You would deny using some of | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
the language David Cameron has used about UKIP, fruitcakes, loony, | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
closet racists, cranks, there are plenty of those within Tory ranks. | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
That terminology is not useful. We need to make sure people who are | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
tempted to vote UKIP, come back or state in the Conservative fold. It | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
is the people who run these parties making these offensive comments that | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
we need to target, including Nigel Farage. | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
Ed Miliband said the comments about Romanians amounted to a racist slur. | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
He refused to call Nigel Farage a racist directly. | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
Doesn't that make him a racist? Let us be clear. My parents arrived here | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
as immigrants. I remember a context in which some people said, you don't | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
want these people living next to you. That was racist. What Nigel | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
Farage said at the weekend is racist. I am clear, he is a racist. | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
Ed Miliband should be brave enough to say he is a racist. | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
It is not helpful to get into a pedantic discussion of the | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
difference between racial slur and racism. He is leader of a national | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
party. He should not be slurring whole communities, Romanians who | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
come to this country, describing them as bandits. It is deeply nasty, | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
the sort of thing we have seen in Europe, in times of recession and | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
depression. We must take that kind of slur extremely seriously. | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
Do you agree he a racist? I agree with David, the difference between | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
Nigel Farage and the other cases in the other parties, Nigel Farage is | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
the leader of the party. The head of their party, so when he says | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
something, it does represent the wider views of the party. I think he | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
was right to apologise for what he said about the Romanians but the | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
problem is the written apology he has provided simply reinforces what | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
he had to say about Romanians and their criminal activities. A strange | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
apology. UKIP claims that all of the other | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
parties have exactly the same sort of problem. | :44:07. | :44:13. | |
Do you accept that? I accept in one particular instance, you quoted a | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
Liberal Democrat, the immediate action we took was to withdraw his | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
membership. UKIP have taken action as well about their candidates. | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
You cannot imagine Nick Clegg or David Cameron saying the sorts of | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
things Nigel Farage said on air. For everyone to hear. | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
I do not want to dismiss the 2.5 million people that voted UKIP last | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
time, as racist. But it is clear that UKIP are revelling in some of | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
this stuff. They are stirring up those who are, rightly, discontented | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
with Britain. A look at the political parties and feel, they | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
leave us cold. They are stirring that up with a degree of prejudice, | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
and racism. That is in their electoral interests. Are they saying | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
what people generally think is the case. | :45:12. | :45:19. | |
I think this has been bad things, if you look back over the past few | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
months and years, you will see a conscious creation of this | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
difference. Of using migration, free movement, as a way of attacking the | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
European Union. What this has done for the lives of a lot of people on | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
the ground has made them profoundly uncomfortable, and fearful of their | :45:40. | :45:47. | |
place in the UK. That is not just restricted to these instances. | :45:48. | :45:58. | |
If you look at this, it isn't just UKIP, we have seen this with other | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
political parties. When they start using this, you begin to get... You | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
are talking about the Conservatives? Other parties as well. You see a | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
legitimisation on the ground of people feeling, somehow, this sort | :46:14. | :46:24. | |
of activity and language... The go home fans around London telling | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
illegal immigrants to go home, is there such a difference? | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
That was about people who are not supposed to be in this country. Not | :46:35. | :46:42. | |
about immigrants per se. To go back to your point, no other party leader | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
has had to take out a full-page advert in a national paper to say | :46:47. | :46:54. | |
they are not racist. The mistake we are making is to move away from the | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
crucial issues. Local council services, who is best able to | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
provide those. Rest able at an EU level to fight for Britain in the | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
European Union. It is not UKIP. UKIP are on course | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
to top the European poll, most polls seem to say that. On the basis of | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
that, what has gone wrong? Why is UKIP doing so much better? | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
We have to wait for the results. If people want representatives to fight | :47:29. | :47:31. | |
them in the European Parliament and achieve change, reform, Liberal | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
Democrats will do that. UKIP do not take part in most of the votes, are | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
mainly absent, have not voted for some job creation measures. Do not | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
invest your vote in them if you think they are going to deliver | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
reform. Even your party has lost some | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
support. You haven't made headway hoped for. | :47:59. | :48:05. | |
Some of that to UKIP. It is true we haven't made headway. But the polls | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
are looking quite good for us in a number of seats. I would agree in | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
terms of the issues we have discussed during this campaign, a | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
lot of them which are relevant to European level, financial | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
regulation, job creation, have not been on the table at all because the | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
whole agenda has been captured by one political party. It is a real | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
shame we haven't discussed the issues that really matter at | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
European level. That's also what people will be voting for. But UKIP | :48:38. | :48:51. | |
do not participate. They often vote against. | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
Regular viewers will know that we've commissioned a series of polls | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
of voters in England, getting their impressions of the parties ahead | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
The polls mimic the techniques used by parties, | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
of segmenting the electorate into distinct groups, which can be | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
Each respondent was asked the same series of questions | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
about the values of each of the main political parties. | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
The poll suggests that the public see the Tories as tough | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
and capable, with well over half saying they are "willing to take | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
And 44% saying they are "competent and capable", | :49:22. | :49:32. | |
But less than a quarter think Cameron's party | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
The good news for Ed Miliband is that people see them as | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
well-intentioned, and standing for normal folk, with the highest number | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
saying that Labour "wants to help ordinary people get on in life." | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
And the majority saying, "its heart is in the right place." | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
But there's trouble at the top for the red camp, | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
with less than a third saying the party "has a good team of leaders." | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
The Lib Dems are also all heart, according to this survey. | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
But only around a fifth think they are up to the job. | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
And there is a trust problem, with even fewer saying Clegg's | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
Nigel Farage's popular touch means that 35% say he is on their side. | :50:11. | :50:22. | |
But the party may be divisive with less than a quarter saying UKIP | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
And again, only 23% say that UKIP is "competent and capable." | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
And Lawrence Stellings of Populus joins me now. | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
Let us talk about those polls, what are the headlines? | :50:39. | :50:45. | |
A picture of two different halves. The Conservatives have a good score | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
for the hard measures. Good team leaders, competent, capable, taking | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
the right decisions. Labour have done well on the softer | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
measures, fairness, understanding concerns, sharing normal people's | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
views. Are you surprised by those results? | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
Not to a huge extent. Labour spent a lot of time talking about the cost | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
of living crisis, building one nation. The Conservatives, as the | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
government party, it is easier to be seen as a party that is good at | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
governing, making tough decisions. When we talked to ordinary voters, | :51:26. | :51:32. | |
there was evidence Labour do enjoy an advantage as well. | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
What are the different segments of the electorate saying? | :51:38. | :51:46. | |
Traditional Conservative voters have given UKIP excellent scores. We see | :51:47. | :51:58. | |
the same with hard-pressed anxiety, a group of voters who have struggled | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
with the economy, feel left out they are giving UKIP good schools. | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
But people like the cosmopolitan critics, traditionally Liberal | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
Democrats, labour, younger and more urban, they have given tough scores. | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
And the largest group sitting in the middle, the swing voters, their vote | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
is split between the parties. With a year to the election, it is | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
interesting this group cannot make up their mind. | :52:33. | :52:42. | |
Looking at polls in general, basing to be rather erratic, two have put | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
the Tories ahead, one has put UKIP third, whereas the majority had put | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
UKIP at the top or second, with Labour just behind. What is going on | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
here? The European election is very difficult to call, most people do | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
not vote, and my colleagues, you have to try to conduct polls for | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
people who do not know what the European elections are about, when | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
they are, or how the voting system works. There is an awful lot of | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
interpretation to do for those polls. Thank you very much, we are | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
joined now by Tim Aker of UKIP. Before we come to you, the | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
information we have just been looking at, the verdict from this | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
poll is broadly, Labour, nice people, badly led, a fair summary? | :53:30. | :53:38. | |
No, because the verdict is... The verdict is actually that we are on | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
the side of ordinary people. I have said that, but leadership is down. | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
One in five young people are unemployed, we are on their side. 4 | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
million people renting in Britain, Ed was talking about rent. 5 million | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
people on low wages, Ed was talking about them, we are on their side. | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
That has got to be good. I grant you, that is good, but that is the | :54:02. | :54:08. | |
problem for you, you seem like the nasty party still. I would not go | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
that far. There is an issue of perceptions being on your side, but | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
what is really encouraging is you need to show leadership and | :54:18. | :54:19. | |
competence, and you need the right plan to make sure that those people, | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
whether you are on their side or not, going in right direction. All | :54:24. | :54:32. | |
these polls showed that, actually, people have agreed that we have done | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
the right thing and got the right team leading the country. That is | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
what leadership in politics is all about. It is always the case for | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
opposition that, out with of an election, it is hard to get the | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
visibility that you want, particularly for shadow members of | :54:50. | :54:55. | |
the Cabinet. As we get closer, and we are seeing now week after week | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
new announcements, and you see members of the Shadow Cabinet | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
getting that in, people start to focus. And your ratings come down! | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
For you, it doesn't make great reading, only a fifth consider it | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
you confidence or trust you to keep your promises. If you look at our | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
score in terms of representing ordinary people, if you look at the | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
score in terms of covering the whole of the country, actually, we have | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
got quite high poll ratings, slightly ahead of the Conservative | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
Party. We can take some comfort there. I think there are some | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
strange things there. The Conservative Party does well in | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
terms of being able to take our decisions, and of course we have | :55:39. | :55:40. | |
shared with those decisions but our poll rating seems to be lower. I am | :55:41. | :55:47. | |
not reading too much into that. You would if they were better! Tim Aker, | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
broadly, UKIP seem to have combined the worst attributes of both the Lib | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
Dems and the Tories, divisive and unrepresentative, incompetent and | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
incapable. And leading in the polls! That last segment, I found that | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
outrageous. You should all be the same, sniping. Your election | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
campaign does not even mentioned the EU, the fact that you are signed up | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
to the whole project, that you will not give us a referendum. For the | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
Liberal Democrats to say anything to do with trust after tuition fees, we | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
know exactly where you stand, the public knows. Nick Clegg got | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
trounced in those debates. We are actually talking to people about the | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
issues that they care about, and in some areas where people are hard | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
pressed, feeling the pain, they are coming to us and not to Labour. | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
David Lammy says Nigel Farage is racist, what do you say to that? | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
Absolute nonsense. How is he not racist with relation to Romanians? | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
We have got a problem with an open door to the other 27 countries of | :56:53. | :56:59. | |
the European Union union. Why is it OK for an open door for Nigel | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
Farage's wife, but not for the Romanian that comes here? We are | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
talking about criminals. Do you want an open door to criminals?! Criminal | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
gangs? Absolutely not! We have said that we want a system like | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
Australia, where they decide who comes in and who doesn't. You are | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
happy for an open door, and for Labour to say anything about | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
immigration is atrocious. Should we call back the thousands of Brits in | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
Spain at the moment? Should we call them back to this country? The Brits | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
in France, come back to Britain, should we be doing that? Why don't | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
we have a sensible relationship? That is a matter for the French | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
government. What is the difference, in your mind, between the group of | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
Romanians and a group of Germans? Nigel clarified its today, it is a | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
matter... No, we are not racist. We are not racist, but 92% of cash | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
machines... This would be a foreign land if Labour took over, where was | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
all the criticism then. What is the difference between the | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
remaining is moving in... The quote is about a group of Romanian men | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
moving in, it is about community spirit. The rates of immigration | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
over the past ten years, over the past ten years have seen communities | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
change, and people are concerned about that. Why do you think | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
immigration has overtaken the economy as the number one issue? | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
Would you like a group of Ukrainian tent are moving in? I don't judge | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
them! Thank you for joining us. The one o'clock news is starting an BBC | :58:50. | :58:50. | |
One, I will be back tomorrow, bye. A new era blooms | :58:51. | :59:10. | |
at the RHS Chelsea Flower Show, with a fresh crop of exciting | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
young designers. | :59:15. | :59:18. |