Browse content similar to 10/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks, and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:39. | :00:40. | |
Just eight days to go until the people of Scotland decide whether or | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
The fate of the 300-year-old union hangs in the balance, | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
with polls suggesting the Yes and No campaigns are neck-and-neck. | :00:48. | :00:55. | |
The Prime Minister makes an impassioned plea for Scots to | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
He's cancelled his normal question time appearance, | :00:59. | :01:07. | |
along with the other main party leaders, to head north to Scotland. | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
Alex Salmond says the No campaign is falling apart at the seams. | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
But with fresh warnings from the Governor of the Bank | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
of England, and as investors continue to take fright, can the Yes | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
With Messrs Cameron and Miliband off to Scotland, it'll be Hague | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
We'll have all the action and expert analysis live at midday. | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
And the journalist Alice Thomson says it's time to end the culture | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
of politicians wining and dining with big donors. | :01:34. | :01:42. | |
The Queen costs each taxpayer 56 pence a year. In return, we don't | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
have to worry, she is wining and dining people, for a stack of cash | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
to keep the show on the road. That should be the example for all our | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
All that in the next 90 minutes, and with us for the whole of the | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
programme today, the new Secretary of State for Wales, Stephen Crabb, | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
and the Shadow Housing Minister, Emma Reynolds. Welcome to you both. | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
Now, it's Wednesday, and usually that means we'd be gearing up for | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
our weekly bout of verbal pugilism between the Prime Minister and the | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
Leader of the Opposition. But wait - what's that? They're not going to be | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
there? Why? The referendum? Yes, that's right. Messrs Cameron and | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
Miliband have agreed to suspend hostilities in order to campaign in | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
Scotland. They've even taken Nick Clegg with them - probably to carry | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
their bags. Actually, I jest. The leaders aren't travelling together, | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
and they certainly won't be sharing any stages.Yes, the Prime Minister | :02:32. | :02:41. | |
and they certainly won't be sharing any stages. Yes, the Prime Minister | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
is doing a Q in Edinburgh this morning with voters, Nick Clegg will | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
be visiting an energy company in Selkirk at lunchtime, and Ed | :02:48. | :02:49. | |
Miliband will be making a speech this afternoon in Glasgow. A short | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
while ago, I spoke to our political correspondent, Norman Smith, just | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
before he went in to hear the Prime Minister speak. | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
It is a huge gamble by the three main unionist parties but it | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
reflects the fact that the polls have tightened, they know they have | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
to step up the intensity of their campaign and they have to try and | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
seize the initiative, which is why they have taken the decision to set | :03:16. | :03:24. | |
aside Prime Minister's Questions and make the case for the union, we will | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
see the tone of the campaign changing. There has been criticism | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
too much has been focussed on the economy, sterling and now there is | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
to be a conscious effort to make a more emotional case to the people of | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
Scotland, to site family, to reframe the argument, but it is a huge, huge | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
gamble. The gamble is this, that they come up here and are seen as | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
the Westminster elite, coming up to Scotland, to lecture the Scots at | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
the very last gasp of this referendum campaign, that is the | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
narrative we have been hearing from Alex Salmond, who insists it is a | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
last minute panic measure and it might backfire, because if you look | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
at their ratings, north of the border, let us be candid, David | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg are not highly regarded here. They | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
advertise the fact they are the Westminster party, and that | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
reinforces Alex Salmond's case, that Scotland would be better governing | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
itself. O so it is a big risk and a big move by the three main party | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
leaders. Norman Smith there let us pick up on | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
that point. Aren't you playing into Alex Salmond's hands? He has said he | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
will pay for the bus fares for all of them to travel up. Not at all. We | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
knew the last days of the campaign would feel very intense indeed. We | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
knew that the polls were tightening. You didn't think they would be this | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
tight, did you? That is is right for the party leaders to make a stand, | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
to go to Scotland and say this matters. Tell people of Scotland how | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
much we want them to stick with the family, stick with the family of | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
nations. You look cynical at this point, why wasn't it done before? It | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
is only because the polls have shown one or two of them that they are | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
tied the or the yes campaign is slightly ahead, that there is what | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
looks like a desperate attempt to make appeal to Scottish voters? | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
David Cameron has been going back and forward to Scotland since he | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
became Prime Minister, speaking from his head and heart about why he | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
wants Scotland to stick with the family of nations that is the United | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
Kingdom. He isn't popular in Scotland, so could it make it worse? | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
. I don't believe it will make it worse, I think it is a really | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
important step that the party leaders take, today, it is not | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
uncommon for the Prime Minister to miss PMQs for extraordinary | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
occasion, this is an extraordinary momentous moment nor the United | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
Kingdom. What difference is Ed Miliband going to make, bear in mind | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
they have had to ask Gordon Brown, a previous Labour Prime Minister to | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
step in to save the union? It is right that the three party leaders | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
are up in Scotland. We expected all along the polls would narrow. One | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
poll suggested that 20% of people have not made up their minds, so it | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
is right that politicians across the political spectrum are there and | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
Gordon Brown, a towering figure in British politics and Scottish | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
politics has been involved in the campaign for quite some time, and | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
again, it is unsurprising that he has started to come Pape more | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
intensely in the last couple of weeks. Looking now, xue excuse me, | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
Stephen crab, do you think there should have been another question on | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
the ballot paper, that promised more powers to Scotland, in the event of | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
a no vote? No, the decision that the people Scott land are taking is a | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
complicated one, a difficult one. Having a choice between independence | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
or remaining part of the UK... Was that the wrong decision? Would we be | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
in this situation if there had been another choice on the ballot paper? | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
It is difficult presented with that. There is a strong appetite within | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
Scotland for more decision making to be taken within the boundaries of | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
Scotland, the parties at Westminster are united in saying we are going to | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
meet that appetite. But it is right for the people Scott land to make | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
this decision whether they want to stick with the United Kingdom, stick | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
with the family of nations or to go it alone as independents. Let us | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
One of the things Mr Cameron et al will be talking about | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
while they're north of the border will be more devolution as | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
Yesterday, the leaders of the Scottish | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats stood on a joint platform | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
to offer the Scots further powers if they vote No next Thursday. | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
They hope this will be enough to dissuade people from voting | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
The Yes Campaign says it's just a last minute panicky bribe. | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
Stewart Hosie is deputy leader of the SNP group in Westminster, and | :07:57. | :07:58. | |
Given all the uncertainties that are associated with independence, would | :07:59. | :08:14. | |
it not be better to keep the certainty of the union, and all the | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
extra devolutionary powers that are being promised to you? No, because | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
the certainty with independence is that the Scottish people will have | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
all of the power in their hands. The Scottish Government elected | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
democratically, it will take all the decisions. When we talk about | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
uncertainty, we have had this week Gordon Brown, our backbench Labour | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
MP making a promise he can't keep, expecting the Scottish people to | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
believe a Tory Government will implement a Labour plan. The weakest | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
of the three plans on offer from the three unionist parties. I think the | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
First Minister is correct. It this is a last ditch panic move. It is | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
desperation at the heart of the no camp. Nobody is buying it. If you | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
accept more Home Rule, Scotland's position in the EU, that is firm, | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
its position in NATO, that is firm, monetary union with the rest of the | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
United Kingdom, that is guaranteed. Independence, you can't guarantee | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
any of these things, that is uncertain. I know I have made the | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
case as to why a currency union is in the best interest of Scotland and | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
the rest of the UK. You can't guarantee it. . I am certain that | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
the arguments we have laid out, in terms of the currency are correct. | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
There is not a serious commentator thinks we will be outside of the EU. | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
I think the language that was used is Scotland be treated as a special | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
and unique case. It could take time. It is not seamless, you party used | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
to say it was automatic, the you wouldn't even have to apply again, | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
you would remain a member of the EU. We although that is not the case | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
now, it is uncertain. Andrew, I think it is the case that because | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
there is no provision to pebbling a state or part of a state -- expel | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
where there will be negotiation, they will be from the inside. You | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
know, there are no more uncertainties with independence as | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
there are risks as staying part of the union, this is a union with ?1.5 | :10:11. | :10:19. | |
trillion worth of debt. When the main parties travel to Scotland to | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
tell the Scottish people what they can't do, they can't be seen to be | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
photographed together. No-one is taking this seriously. The most | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
serious point if there isn't uncertainty ant independence, why | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
are investors pulling their cash out of Scotland, sinsing is on exit | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
clauses in commercial property deals and the value of sterling is | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
falling? That sounds like uncertainty. . In terms of sterling | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
we saw a 1% dip two days ago, that has happened 16 times in the last | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
year against the euro. Can I just point out against the dollar, | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
sterling only a month ago was 1.72, it is now 1.61. That is a big fall. | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
There are many reasons why currency prices change. I think to put all of | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
that at the door of Scottish independence is wrong. To be honest, | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
the smart commentators are suggesting as much of this is to do | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
with the lack of preparedness of the UK government than independence | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
itself. In terms of the stock price, if you look at Scotland's lives | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
company, apart from cairn which has share problems unrelated to | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
independence, their rise since the no campaign was at peak last | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
September, it was 4.7%, that is against a 3.7% average for the FTSE | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
100. It is wrong to suggest share prices are falling, because of | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
independence. Except it was largely on Scottish prices that the big | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
share prices fell. Why are investors pulling their money out of Scotland? | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
Why are they moving their bank accounts south? The FTSE is down 1% | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
already, that is across the entire inDerek this is not to do with | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
Scottish independence. Why are people pulling their money out of | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
Scotland? I have heard this scare story from our opponents many time. | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
You know and I know over the past two years as the debate has | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
happened, yes I have we have taken the lead, investment in Scotland, | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
massive investment, not least the 14 billion of investment in the North | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
Sea last year. It is wrong to say people are pulling out of Scotland | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
at and it is wrong four our political Pope innocents to be | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
spooking the market in this way. You say, just before I bring in our | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
studio guests. A Scottish investment fund, we have moved hundreds of | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
millions south of border, on the record. Another firm in Edinburgh. | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
We have moved our bank account south. Resident commercial property | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
investors now insisting on exit clauses should Scotland vote yes. | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
That is uncertainty. It is on uncertainty if it is talked up. | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
There are lots of reason to put an exit clause in deal if you think it | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
might not go through. Doing it before? We are certain and I am sure | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
the smart investors know this very well, that I will be huge | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
opportunities in an ind Scotland, a country with a fundamentally robust | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
economy, with huge plans to grow the economy, to create more wealth. I | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
think investors will be flocking to Scotland to take advantage of the | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
opportunities after the 19th September. I want you to listen to | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
what our studio guests are saying. I will come back for a brief reaction | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
from you. Why did Labour, which is basically calling the shots in this, | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
in the no campaign, why did it wait to offer this new Home Rule package | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
after all the postal votes had been cast? Well, Ed Miliband's been | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
talking about further devolution for some time. You didn't spell it out | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
until the postal votes had been cashed. The only conclusion is you | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
are panicking The three party leaders have decided there should be | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
further devolution of tax powers in addition to all the other powers the | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
Scottish Parliament has. You are not going to take them way, are you. | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
There has been a significant devolution of powers already in the | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
time that we were in Government, and I think it is right now, in the | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
closing weeks of campaign, that there is further clarity on the | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
timetable. Let us have some clarity. Give us collarly. What extra tax | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
powers will the Scottish Parliament get? We have talked about further | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
devolution of income tax, obviously the details of that will need to | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
be... You can't give clarity on what the details would be or a broad | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
strategic description of what the income tax powers would be? There | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
would be significantly more powers. What does that mean And that the tax | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
now paid into the Treasury would go into Scottish coffers and there | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
would be more control over that for the Scottish Parliament. How much | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
income tax would be devolved? Detail would need to be worked out. Surely | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
the people of Scotland are being asked to vote on their future, there | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
is two alternative, one is clear, it is independence and they can take | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
out a view on that. The alternative is not the status quo. We have been | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
clear about that. You are saying further devolution, Gordon Brown | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
calls it Home Rule. Don't the people of Scotland have a right to know | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
what that would mean in terms of income tax, VAT, would the taxation | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
on oil be devolved to Scotland? We have talked about the devolution of | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
housing benefit. The devolution of income tax. I think it is very clear | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
that there will be further devolution of power and I think that | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
is right. I understand that but you promised clarity and I am not | :15:50. | :15:51. | |
getting it. Will that taxation of oil be | :15:52. | :16:02. | |
devolved? That is one of the things that will need to be worked out. I | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
know that, I would like you to tell me will it all wanted or don't you | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
know? The powers being put forward will fundamentally change the fiscal | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
equation for Scotland. It will be a situation where most of its money | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
gets handed down from Westminster and all they can decide to do is how | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
they spend it to actually taking responsibility for raising when most | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
of them may themselves. Whether that's from energy resources, or | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
from income tax, corporation tax. So a home ruled Scotland would have its | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
own powers over the taxation of oil would go to the Edinburgh | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
parliament? We are not saying that exactly. You said taxation over | :16:42. | :16:58. | |
energy policy. I said there were a lot of resources available from | :16:59. | :17:00. | |
which governments can raise money, and what Scotland will get is a huge | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
swathe of new powers, giving it responsible to the raising most of | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
its money and then deciding how to spend it. That changes fundamentally | :17:07. | :17:08. | |
the devolution equation for Scotland. Or are you hitting the | :17:09. | :17:10. | |
panic button because you are about to lose the referendum? You say most | :17:11. | :17:12. | |
taxation powers would be in Scotland. All the figures I have | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
seen, whether you take the rather reluctant devolution of the Labour | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
Party or the more enthusiastic devolution of your party is that | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
actually about 40% of revenues raised in Scotland would go to the | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
Scottish parliament. That's not most. Most income tax raised will be | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
the responsibility. Income tax will become the responsibility of the | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
Scottish Government. Do you agree that most income tax should be | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
raised in Scotland? I think the decisions about text have wider | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
implications for the rest of the union, and in that sense it is | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
absolutely right. The direction of travel has been set, but the further | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
detail needs to be considered with care and attention. But not by next | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
Thursday, correct? Scots will have to vote blind on this matter. We | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
have said income tax to a certain extent will be devolved and there | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
will be further tax raising powers for the Scottish parliament. The | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
direction of travel is clear. It is just the actual destination is not | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
clear. Stewart Hosie, I will come back to you for the final word. A | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
huge open goal in front of you? Reign just be serious for a second, | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
the Scottish Government just a 600 page white paper, detail, questions, | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
answers, everything, massive amount of detail. We can't even get a clear | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
answer from Unionist parties about the proportion of income tax that | :18:34. | :18:35. | |
will be devolved or if any other taxes will be devolved. It is simply | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
not good enough, it is the bag of a -- back of a fag packet calculation. | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
I can't wait till next Thursday. Neither can I, probably for | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
different reasons. It's just that I'm working, you will be spectating. | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
Stewart Hosie, thanks for joining us. | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
We've heard plenty over the last few months and weeks about what Scottish | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
independence would mean for Scotland - but what about the rest of the UK? | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
What would a Yes vote next Thursday mean for people in England, | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
Alex Salmond has said an independent Scotland would remove Trident | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
nuclear sub Marines from their current base on the Clyde by 2020, | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
leaving the rest of the UK with an expensive relocation bill. UK | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
defence spending without Scotland would be reduced by 10%. Without | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
Scotland, UK's role in the world could also change will stop if it is | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
seen as less influential, United Kingdom would not be up to retain | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
her permanent suit -- seat on the UN Security Council. Whether Scotland | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
will be allowed to keep the pound would have an impact on the money | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
markets. There will also be tough negotiation about how much of the | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
national debt Scotland agrees to take on. Without Scotland, the rest | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
of the UK's GDP would be about 8% smaller than now and the Westminster | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
Treasury would take a hit from the loss of North Sea revenues fostered | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
but some economists argue GDP per may actually increase in England, | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland and Scotland's average expenditure per | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
person is ?1300 higher than the UK average. Politically, there is talk | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
of a constitutional crisis. There could be cause for the Prime | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
Minister and other party leaders to resign. An early general election | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
could be triggered before Christmas. If the May 2015 election does go | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
ahead, then any MPs elected in Scotland would only serve until the | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
proposed Independence Day in March 2016. So if Labour is elected by a | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
small majority, or there is a hung parliament, we could face another | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
general election in 2016, once the 59 Scottish MPs are taken out of the | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
equation. Let's look at some of the implications, if there is a yes vote | :20:56. | :21:03. | |
next week, or even if there is not. A lot more home rule on offer for | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
Scotland. Gordon Brown calls at home rule. Why shouldn't Wales have it? | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
There isn't the appetite in Wales for independence, we know that. | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
Devolution has worked in Wales, in the sense that it has killed off in | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
the Tennents as a movement within Wales but what I believe is that the | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
appetite for decision making within national borders, Wales, Northern | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
Ireland and Scotland, that appetite should be met. So there should be | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
more devolution of power to Wales? There will be in future if that's | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
what the public opinion once. But are you in favour of it? I am | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
open-minded about how devolution progresses in Wales. The important | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
thing is that we need stability and a constitutional setup that helps | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
foster unity rather than division. You once said devolution was as big | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
a threat to this country as uncontrolled immigration, why do you | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
want more of it? I was one of a great number of people in Wales who | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
felt that devolution was a very risky path to go down, 12 years ago. | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
It could cause huge and permanent damage to our country? In that time, | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
devolution has worked in Wales, it has fostered unity and I think it's | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
right. Every time the people of Wales when they asked you want more | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
or less devolution, they say more please, but we don't want | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
independence. Would a future Conservative government, if you win | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
the election next year, will you give Wales more devolved powers? | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
It's happening anyway. We have a bill going through Parliament which, | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
for the first time, gives taxation powers to Wales. They are banking | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
that, that's going through now. Will there be more, as a result of all | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
the power unspecified in some areas that you are planning to give to | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
Scotland, will there be more for Wales as well? If the appetite is | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
therefore more powers, and Carl Wyn Jones has said he does not | :22:58. | :22:59. | |
necessarily believe that Wales should have exactly the kind of | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
devolution settlement Scotland, so it is not a case of whether Wales | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
should have the same... I didn't ask that, I simply asked if there would | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
be more? I said yes, Wales is getting more. Would that be true | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
under Labour too? It is important to talk about devolution in England. We | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
will come to that in a second, but let me sign off on the Wales | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
question, would a future Labour government devolved more power to | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
the Welsh Parliament or a semi? I think the Welsh assembly has already | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
got a number of powers. We know that, but would it get more? I am | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
not entirely confident that there is appetite for significantly more | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
devolution of powers in Wales full stop let's come on to England, 85% | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
of the United Kingdom by population. If Scotland is to get a | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
lot more power, including almost complete control over its divest it | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
affairs and substantial taxation powers, does that not mean that you | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
have to answer the West Lothian question, that Scottish MPs cannot | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
vote on English only matters? I think what is an important question | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
is actually more so what does it mean in terms of the centralised | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
nature of our country? We are more centralised than many other European | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
countries. Why don't you devolve and have an English only Parliament | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
Sundays in the Commons when Scottish and Welsh MPs can't vote on English | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
matters? What it actually points to is that we need to devolved powers, | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
responsibilities and perhaps resource, which we have talked about | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
in recent months, to local authorities in England that come | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
together and work together. That is, for me, a more significant move, in | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
terms of devolution. Why would it be right for a Scottish MP, who under | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
the Gordon Brown scheme that you signed up to, would have no say | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
whatsoever over domestic Scottish matters, or over income tax, why | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
should that Scottish MP have any say over England's domestic matters? | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
Because there will still be domestic affairs we continue together and I | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
believe in the integration of the UK Parliament. If this Scottish MP has | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
no say over Scottish education or how it is to be funded, why should | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
he or she have a vote over English education, which doesn't affect its | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
constituency? We already have that situation, and I do think it is | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
important that the body politic that sits in Westminster, that represents | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
every corner of our family of nations, have the same rights. Is it | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
conceivable that you can agree to all this extra devolution for | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
Scotland without coming up for something with England as well, that | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
allows English MPs... Alex Salmond says constantly the Scots should | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
decide their own future. When will the English be allowed to decide | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
their own domestic affairs without Scottish or Welsh MPs voting on the | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
same issues? I don't think it is conceivable to devolve this new | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
suite of powers to Scotland and leave the constitutional settlement | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
affecting Northern Ireland, Wales and England in tact. You think there | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
has to be a UK... Absolutely, there needs to be a UK wide response. Yes, | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
we have given a commitment to give more powers to the people of | :26:18. | :26:19. | |
Scotland, because that is what they want, but we need to look at the | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
other nations as equal nations. We talk the language of being a family | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
of nations, in the United Kingdom. For the first time, we need to look | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
at the Constitution as if we are generally a family. The primers to | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
has told the audience in Edinburgh that he would be heartbroken if -- | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
the Prime Minister. Arguing, I love my country more than I love my | :26:43. | :26:50. | |
party. There we go. As we have been discussing, the latest ploy is to | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
reach out to voters in Scotland to tell them that they really do want | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
them to stay. We have heard from David Blunkett saying it is time for | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
people in the UK to phone a Scottish friend. | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
David Cameron and Ed Miliband urged homes and offices | :27:11. | :27:12. | |
across the country to fly the saltire, and it was even raised | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
It happens every day on Saint Andrew stay, but never mind. | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
But in what the superstitious might regard as something | :27:20. | :27:21. | |
of a bad omen for the unionists, the flag fell down, and it took several | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
But, wherever you stand on Scottish independence, there's one thing that | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
we know is universally popular, from Land's End to John O'Groats. | :27:30. | :27:31. | |
No, not the Great British Bake-Off, I speak of course of the | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
We'll remind you how to enter in a minute, but let's see if you | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
MUSIC: "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough" by Michael Jackson. | :27:40. | :28:03. | |
I've always maintained I was innocent | :28:04. | :28:14. | |
MUSIC: "Message in a Bottle" by The Police. | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
I inherited a dairy industry in whch costs had risen, and producers | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
MUSIC: "I Don't Like Mondays" by The Boomtown Rats. | :28:26. | :29:06. | |
To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
answer to our special quiz email address, that's [email protected]. | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
And you can see the full terms and conditions for Guess The Year | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
on our website, that's bbc.co.uk/dailypolitics. | :29:18. | :29:27. | |
What are the full terms and conditions? Have you got half an | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
hour. No. It's coming up to midday here, | :29:31. | :29:31. | |
just take a look at Big Ben, yes, Prime Minister's Questions is | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
on its way, minus the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
of course. Other than that, it's going to be | :29:40. | :29:40. | |
great! LAUGHTER And that's not all, | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
James Landale is here. So we have got the B team, all eyes | :29:44. | :29:51. | |
are north of the border, does any buddy rarely care what Mr Hague or | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
Miss Harman have to say? Only if they make a mistake. I would expect | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
them to stick to safety first, talk about Scotland, they don't want to | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
portray an image of disunity today. They will agree. Just to let you | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
know, you quoted some of the premise's words, can you also tell | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
you something else -- tell you something Ozzie said, he said this | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
was a decision that would last for centuries. It was not, I quote, if | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
you are fed up with the Tories, you can give them a kick. That is what | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
the primers to said, -- Prime Minister said the premise to said | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
effing Tories. Feeling more to the heart than the head. He saying to | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
Scots, this is not an occasion if you are fed up with the effing | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
Tories give them a kick, this is a decision that would last for | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
centuries. Let's go straight to the house. I hope the language is | :30:46. | :30:47. | |
better. To listen and talk to voters about | :30:48. | :31:03. | |
the huge choice they face, and their message to the Scottish people is | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
simple, from the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, we want | :31:08. | :31:15. | |
you to stay in the United Kingdom. I join the Prime Minister in the | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
tribute he paid on Monday to Jim Dobbin who died at the weekend. He | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
was a proud Scot and a hard-working and principled particletarian who | :31:26. | :31:27. | |
was respected op both sides of this House. He will be very sadly missed | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
and I know that the thoughts of the whole House are with his family and | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
his friends. Mr Speaker, this morning I had meeting with | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
ministerial colleagues and others and in addition to my duties in this | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
House I will have further such meetings later today. | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
Can I join the the leader of the House in paying tribute to Jim | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
Dobbin, he was a kind and decent man and he he will be sorely missed. Our | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
thoughts and prayers are with his wife Pat and the family. The bedroom | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
tax is discriminal nay Troy. It is damaging amend not even working. On | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
Friday, this House was very very clear, will the Government now | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
listen, will it scrap this wretched pod sip -- policy because if they | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
won't, we will. Well, Mr Speaker, this is a basic | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
issue of fairness here, because if you live in private rented | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
accommodation and receive housing benefit the rules apply throughout | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
the whole of the last Labour Government and we had a situation | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
which neighbouring households could be treated unequally. She asked | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
about the Private Members Bill, the proposal in that bill could cost the | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
country up to ?1 billion and because we have introduced a cap on overall | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
spending, making the changes would mean finding savings elsewhere. I | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
haven't heard suggestion from the party opposite for that. Assuming a | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
no vote in the Scottish referendum, who in the Government will respect | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
England for the new devolution settlement? Who speaks for England, | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
because we need a voice and a new deal? Well, there are many of us who | :33:10. | :33:16. | |
having represented Yorkshire for 25 year, I can claim to speak for | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
England, from time to time. -- years. | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
Your shire men are keen for a far bigger area than they represent | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
themselves. Of course, all of these debates are to be had once the | :33:31. | :33:39. | |
referendum is concluded. Can I thank the Right Honourable member for the | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
word he said about our good friend and colleague Jim Dobbin, and add my | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
tribute to him on his sudden and tragic death at the weekend. He was, | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
as has been said a accident man who stuck to his principles and at a | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
time when it is fashionable to say politicians are in it for themselves | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
he was the opposite of that. Our deepest sympathies are with Pat and | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
their children and we will miss him greatly. -- a accident man. Historic | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
is is a much overused word in politics, does he agree in eight | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
days people the people of Scotland will make a truly historic decision? | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
This is their vote, but I want the message from this side of the House | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
to be heard loud and clear, we want Scotland to stay. I do agree with | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
the Right Honourable lady and that is a clear message from her side of | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
the House and from our different political perspectives, from the | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
side of the House as well. I hope therefore the message the people of | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
Scotland will hear from this House, where Scottish Parliamentarians have | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
made an imminence -- immense contribution for generations we want | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
to stay together and cannot imagine life on these isles without him | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
them. She is a London MP and speaks for millions in what she has said. | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
As, as I fleshed, I am a Yorkshire MP who served as Secretary of State | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
for Wales and we are all proud to be British, combining those identities. | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
There is no doubt we would all be diminished if Scotland was separated | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
from the people of the rest of UK. The roots of our party are deep in | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
Scotland, and we deliver devolution and the Scottish Parliament, but we | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
need to go further. Will he confirm that there will be further | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
devolution and a Scotland Bill setting is out new powers, published | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
in January? Well, as the Right Honourable lady knows that the three | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
main party leaders have come together to agree a programme for | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
change, the member for Cowdenbeath has set out a process for how it | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
could be delivered, to a tight timetable, all three main parties | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
have endorsed that timetable and it mean, immediate action, the day | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
after the referendum, to start the legislative process, it means a | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
command paper, including proposals at the end of October, with a full | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
draft Scotland Bill published by the end of January. And the introduction | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
of a bill, after the general election, regardless of who forms | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
the Government. So that is a clear timetable, and it shows that Scots | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
can have change, without irreversible separation and without | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
risks to jobs and their future. For the clarity of that answer, as we | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
set about devolving further powers to Scotland does he agree that time | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
has also come to devolve further power to Wales and crucially to the | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
great cities and regions of England too? The decision next week, of | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
course, as we know is a matter for the people of Scotland, the | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
implications will be felt by all the people of the United Kingdom, we are | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
already steadily devolving increased power to the, to parts of England as | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
well as have been doing so in Wales, under this Government, Wales has | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
received more primary law making power, we are moving to devolving | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
tax and borrowing powers for the first time, we want to see | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
devolution in Northern Ireland succeed, in England the Lokalism act | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
devolves power of business rates to Local Authorities an city deals have | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
given local areas more of a say. The great strength of the United Kingdom | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
is that it is not a rigid union, it's a living, flexible union, and | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
that is one of its greatest strengths of all. For us, on this | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
side of the House, a fundamental principle of our politics is | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
solidarity, we want the UK to stick together in the cause of social | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
justice. Does he agree with me it is wrong to set the different countries | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
of the UK against each other, whether it is on workers' rights or | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
corporation tax? Well, the Right Honourable lady makes a powerful | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
point about solidarity in the UK. For 300 years we have sat in this | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
House, with Scottish Parliamentarians and their | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
predecessors and they have sat together, from the 18th century to | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
implement a range of together, from the 18th century to | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
causes, from the abolition of the slave trade to our pursuit of human | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
rights and development across the world. We have often led the way at | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
times of world crisis, and been an inspiration to democratic peoples | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
elsewhere. The next 300 years could be as turbulent and dangerous at the | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
last 300 year, so to tear apart a union so proven, so precious, and so | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
valuable, would be a tragic mistake for all our people. People in | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
Scotland can now be certain that with a no vote there would be | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
change, and more powers for Scotland. Does he agree with me that | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
posed against that certainty, is the uncertainty that a yes vote would | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
bring on so many issues like job, pensions, mortgages and the | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
currency? The uncertainty would bring, as impossible to list in the | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
answer to one question, but a letter signed last week by more than 120 | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
job creators from across the whole range of Scottish business concluded | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
that the business case for independence had not been made. They | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
said uncertainty surround vital issues including currency, | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
regulation, tax, pension, EU membership and support from for our | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
exports round the world. They said uncertainty is bad for business. The | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
Governor of the Bank of England said yesterday that sovereignty and the | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
currency union are incompatible and he is right. Many of us have pointed | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
that out for many years in relation to another currency. And be certain | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
of this. Be certain of this. This is not an opinion poll where you can | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
change your mind the next day. It is not an election where you can | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
reverse the result four or five years later. It is a permanent | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
decision that will affect generations, and therefore, the | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
votes cast next Thursday will probably be the most important vote | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
that can be cast in any country, at any time, and the voters must | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
therefore weigh that vote heavily. While jobs, pension, taxes are | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
important, next week's decisions, as he rightly says is about much, much | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
more than that. For sure, there must be change. We must have that and we | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
will, but not by tearing this country apart. We must stay as | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
family, not become foreigners to each other. She puts it very well. | :40:48. | :40:58. | |
We all want the best for Scotland as we want the best for our own | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
constituents, from all parts of the UK in many. The people of England, | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland believe Scotland is better off in the UK and | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
the UK is better off with Scotland in it. So this referendum is the | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
most important choice the people of Scotland will ever make. A choice | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
between the opportunity and security of staying in the UK, or of leaving | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
for ever, without the pound, without the UK's influence in the world, | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
with Scotland as part of the UK, we have the best possible situation and | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
a great future together in the United Kingdom. Mr Speaker, since | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
2012, my right honourable friend and I have been supporting the policy of | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
the Government, not to offer so-called Devo Max as a consolation | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
prize in the event of a no vote, in the Scottish referendum. If this is | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
no longer the policy of the Government, when and why did it | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
change, and what opportunity has there been for this House to express | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
its view? It has been the policy of the Government for some time, to be | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
open to further devolution and I gave examples of what we have done | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
in Wales for instance, during the lifetime of this Government. The | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
statements by the party leaders, made on this in the last few day, | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
are statement by party leaders, in a campaign, not a statement of | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
Government policy but a statement of commitment from the three main | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
political party, akin to statements by party leaders in a general | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
election campaign, of what they intend to do afterwards, it is on | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
that basis they have made those statements. | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
In 2012, the Chancellor set himself a target to double exports to 1 | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
trillion by 2020. I wonder whether he could won firm his Government is | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
on course to miss this tart get by a massive -- this target by a massive | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
300 billion. Nobody can claim to know what the figure will be in 2020 | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
since we are only in 2014 at the moment. A great deal of work, a | :43:08. | :43:14. | |
great deal of work has to be done, but we have greatly intensified the | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
promotion of British e ports, that is why and in my time as Foreign | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
Secretary opened nearly 20 new embassies and Consulates, including | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
many that the party opposite closed when they were in power, that is why | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
we have revamped UK TI. We have huge increases in exports to countries | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
like China and India and Brazil, and everybody, of all parties and | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
business, must join in making a success of that by 2020. Mr Speaker, | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
and the Leader of the Opposition are rightly campaigning today, for the | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
future of our union. On a dally day sips, with Gatwick in my | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
constituency, I see the strong family and business links between my | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
local airport and Scottish airports. Does my right honourable friend the | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
leader of the house agree with me, that our great kingdom is better | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
together, as a united Britain? I say that as somebody with proud Scottish | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
ancestry. Yes, I absolutely agree with my honourable friend and what | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
he can see at Gatwick Airport and what we all experience round other | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
parts of eping England and Wales is a very good example of his point. In | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
fact two thirds of Scottish exports are exported to the rest of the | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
United Kingdom. Twice as much as to the rest of the world put together. | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
Why would anyone choose to place an international border, where those | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
exports are going? And do so unnecessarily. So he makes a very | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
powerful point. Mr Speaker, the leader of the house | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
is right. Next Thursday, the Scots go to the polls to make what is | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
undoubtedly the most historic momentous decision we have had the | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
privilege to consider. Will the Leader of the House join me | :45:19. | :45:31. | |
in congratulating the Scottish people for the way they have gone | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
around conducting this incredible debate? Well, I'm happy... He is | :45:35. | :45:45. | |
right, it was a gentle understatement that we want | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
different things from this process. LAUGHTER | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
But of course we applaud the people of Scotland for taking such an | :45:56. | :45:57. | |
immense interest in this on all sides. And of course it's very | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
important that there is a high turnout in any such referendum, so I | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
absolutely congratulate the people of Scotland, but I don't | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
congratulate those such as his own party who have failed to be straight | :46:12. | :46:19. | |
with the people of Scotland. Who have never explained what money | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
Scotland will use, and what its value will be, who have never | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
explained how long it would take to rejoin the European Union and on | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
what terms, who have never explained how they would fund schools and | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
hospitals, when there would be a ?6 billion black hole in their | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
finances, who haven't explained that their threat not to pay debts would | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
be disastrous for Scotland's long-term future. They are | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
passionate about Scotland, and they are passionate about separation but | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
they are not passionate about telling the truth to the people of | :46:52. | :46:59. | |
Scotland. Embracing three centuries, the garrison town of | :47:00. | :47:06. | |
Colchester has welcomed thousands of Scottish soldiers, many with their | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
families. We wish that to continue. Does the Leader of the House agree | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
with the Defence Select Committee that if Scotland ceased to be part | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
of the UK, and we have the best Armed Forces in Europe, this would | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
pose serious security and defence risks for a separate Scotland, | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
without the capacity to defend itself? My honourable friend makes | :47:32. | :47:39. | |
an extremely important point. He sees the participation and the work | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
and the sacrifices of members of the armed Forces from Scotland when they | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
are deployed in cultures to. I see the garrison in my own constituency. | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
He makes an important point about the security of all of us -- | :47:52. | :47:59. | |
deployed in Colchester. It is important for Scotland's security. | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
Her Majesty's Naval base, Clyde, is the largest employment site on the | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
whole of Scotland and is going to get vigour with the deployment of | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
all of our submarines. These things are put at risk. Last Thursday, I | :48:15. | :48:25. | |
attended a public meeting in my constituency, where the doctors were | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
consulting their patients about how they were going to deal with a | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
budgetary cut of 22 to 24% by the year 2018. This cut of 22 to 24% has | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
officially been notified to them by NHS England. Will the Leader of the | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
House confirmed that if the Conservatives are in power after the | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
general election, these are the cuts that my constituents can expect? I | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
can confirm that this government has raised the NHS budget in line with | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
inflation, which his party was not committed to do at the last general | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
election. I know the Secretary of State for health will want to | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
discuss with him the details of the local situation, but I hope he did | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
explain to them that, overall, since the last election, the number of | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
nurses is up 3700, the number of doctors is up 6500, the number of | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
people who say they are treated with dignity and respect is up 10%, and | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
we've now been ranked as the top health system in the world, | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
according to the Commonwealth fund, moving from seventh in the world | :49:33. | :49:33. | |
four years ago. Would my right honourable friend | :49:34. | :49:44. | |
applaud the initiative of Prince Harry, in creating the Invicta 's | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
games, and welcome all the participants to this country on our | :49:49. | :49:59. | |
behalf? Absolutely -- Invictus Games. This is an important | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
continuation of the immensely proud sporting history we have in this | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
country. We are established again as one of the great sporting nations of | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
the world, and we are also a country that thinks deeply about the welfare | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
of service veterans and his Royal Highness, Prince Harry, has been one | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
of the great champions of this and we wish him and everyone involved in | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
the game is very much well. In 2012, the primers to said he wanted to see | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
economic growth that meant rising living standards for all. Can the | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
Leader of the House tell us why Britain has seen one of the largest | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
falls in real wages of any EU country, beaten only by Cyprus, | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
Portugal and Greece? He might remember that there was a debt | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
fuelled recession that came about under the previous government. And, | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
of course, that has to be paid for. But after four years now of the | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
disciplined policy of my right honourable friend, the Chancellor of | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
the Exchequer, we now have the fastest growth of the G-7 economies. | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
We have employment nearing a record high. We have nearly 2 million new | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
apprenticeships who have started in this time. This is a remarkable | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
economic turnaround from a catastrophic situation we were left. | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does the Leader of the House agree with me | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
that Scottish independence is not about getting one over Westminster, | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
is not about embarrassing the Prime Minister or the leader of the | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
opposition, it's not about defeating the old enemy, but it is about | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
Scotland turning its back on 300 years of successful union and | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
rejecting so much that this country has made to make us all so proud of | :51:48. | :51:55. | |
being part of Great Britain? My honourable friend is right, it is | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
not about any individual or party or election, it is a far longer term | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
decision than that. And, I must say, in my experience all over the world, | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
other nations regard the UK with admiration and sometimes even envy. | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
If Scotland voted yes, all over the world, people who share our values | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
and count on our contribution to peace, stability and human rights, | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
would be disappointed, while those who don't share those priorities and | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
beliefs would be quietly satisfied, and that is another thing we all | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
have to bear in mind. At the end of last month, my constituent | :52:35. | :52:43. | |
disappeared in Qatar. He had been arrested by the Secret Service there | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
because he was investigating the human rights abuses of workers who | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
were working to build the infrastructure for the 2022 World | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
Cup. I thank the Foreign Office for their help in securing his release, | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
but what action will he take to speak to the Ambassador of Qatar | :53:04. | :53:10. | |
about the disgrace of arresting him in the first place and the treatment | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
of those preparing those facilities? The honourable member 's right to | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
say the Foreign Office has pursued it and achieved some success in | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
doing so, as we will in any parallel cases in the future. I know that the | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
embassy and the Foreign Office will want to follow up these matters. | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
That is for my successor, the Foreign Secretary, to determine, so | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
I will draw his attention to the question asked by the honourable | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
member and ask him to write to him about it. With mounting evidence of | :53:42. | :53:49. | |
an innovative, very vibrant and growing real economy, especially in | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
manufacturing and engineering, does the first Secretary of State agree | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
with me that Scotland should remain with us, first to share in the | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
fruits of that success, and second to give us a bigger footprint in the | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
global trade? Yes, I do. This is another very good point, and the | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
economic turnaround that has now been brought about by the UK means | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
that employment in Scotland is now at a record high. There have been | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
seven consecutive quarters of economic growth in Scotland. And | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
there are a quarter of a million more private-sector jobs in Scotland | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
than there were four years ago. That is a reminder of the potential, if | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
we continue to work together, and that is the message that I again | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
repeat to the people of Scotland today. I welcomed suggestions that | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
the premise to will attend the crucial climate summit at the end of | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
this month. Will he confirm the primers to will go and will he tell | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
us what bold new initiative is the prime list will be taking with him, | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
because that's what my constituents in Brighton say they want. They want | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
to protect what they want, they want urgent action on climate change. | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
Order, can I just say, for future reference, it is disorderly to | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
display images in that way, and I say with all courtesy to the | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
honourable lady, whose principal and commitment I respect, that if | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
everybody did that on every cause, it would make a mockery of this | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
place. I asked the honourable lady to take a view much wider than her | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
own immediate preoccupation. Leader of the House. Thank you, Mr Speaker. | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
The answer is the Prime Minister will attend the UN General Assembly | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
later it is September. We haven't yet issued or finally decided his | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
precise schedule, but of course we are looking at attending the meeting | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
the honourable lady refers to, and Britain will continue to play a | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
leading role in the world in bringing about legally abiding | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
agreement on climate change. The next 15 months is a very important | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
period on this, leading up to the meeting in Paris at the end of next | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
year. We are one of the most active countries in the world on climate | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
change diplomacy, and the prime list and other ministers in New York will | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
be fully conveying that, whoever attends the meeting. Will my | :56:16. | :56:24. | |
honourable friend explained to the house why it is that with the | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
possibility that there could be a yes vote, finance is leaving | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
Scotland, many businesses are thinking of leaving Scotland? Surely | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
if economic arguments were so good for the Yes campaign, the reverse | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
would be happening? My honourable friend makes a very powerful point, | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
the anxieties of big businesses are very clear to see. And while we can | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
understand people doubting the word of politicians about economic | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
events, it's very important to listen to what businesses say they | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
will do with their jobs, with their headquarters, with their | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
investments, because a country that has separated itself from the | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
fastest-growing economy of the G-7, that put itself outside the European | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
Union without thinking about implications of doing that, and that | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
ended up with no central bank and unsure which currency was going to | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
use would of course find it difficult to attract new business to | :57:25. | :57:32. | |
its shores. The transatlantic trade and investment partnership believes | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
the health service vulnerable to some of the worst possible outcomes | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
of this government's privatisation programme. Private investors will be | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
able to hold the government and devolved ministrations through the | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
investor state settlement tribunal, in that respect how can the Leader | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
of the House guarantee that the health service, including the health | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
services in the devolved administrations, will be except? My | :57:59. | :58:06. | |
right honourable friend has been dealing with these matters and has | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
held a briefing about such matters, so I have no doubt we can furnish | :58:12. | :58:14. | |
her with more details on these issues. But it is very important to | :58:15. | :58:22. | |
maintain a commitment to free trade that has been a characteristic of | :58:23. | :58:24. | |
the United Kingdom over many centuries, and which has invariably | :58:25. | :58:31. | |
brought greater prosperity to the people of the UK, as well as to | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
people all over the rest of the world. The transatlantic trade and | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
investment partnership is another major opportunity to boost free | :58:39. | :58:46. | |
trade across the world. Mr Speaker, a vote next week in favour of an | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
independent Scotland would have major damaging implications for | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
Wales. Does my right honourable friend agree with me that my fellow | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
Welsh citizens, who care about the future of our Welsh nation, should | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
be hoping and praying for rejection of the break-up of the United | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
Kingdom? Yes. Absolutely. I think they are. I regularly consult with | :59:12. | :59:17. | |
at least one Welsh citizens, and on the evidence of that, they are very | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
much hoping and praying that the UK will not be broken up, and my | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
honourable friend I know speaks very well for his constituents in mid | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
Wales. All of us in the United Kingdom would be diminished by the | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
break-up of the United Kingdom. We are something greater than the sum | :59:34. | :59:36. | |
of our parts, and that is well understood across the UK, and the | :59:37. | :59:42. | |
impact upon Wales would be a mistake of all. | :59:43. | :59:50. | |
Six in ten people couldn't get a GP's appointment within two days of | :59:51. | :59:58. | |
them needing one. Can the Secretary of State explain to the house why | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
his party won't support Labour's patrol Sams to guarantee an | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
appointment withinle hours. Professionals in the health system | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
have said going back to that target would be a counter productive thing | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
to do. And the honourable member knows that the number of people | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
treated by GPs has increased by many millions over the last four years, | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
that is a trend that is continuing, of course, we are always trying to | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
seek further improvement but reintroducing the old failed target | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
is not the way forward. When I travel abroad, and I am asked | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
where I come from, I am proud to say, I am British. Does my right | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
honourable friend agree with me that you can be proud to be British but | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
still have your own identity of being English, Scottish, Welsh or | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
from Northern Ireland and we should remain together and continue as | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
Great Britons. I don't think anybody could have put it better. My right | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
honourable friend has his own identity in different ways, he has | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
expressed that beautifully including his identity with the United Kingdom | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
and that is how so many of us think in Britain and let us hope it is | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
possible to continue to do so. Mr Speaker, can I support the visit | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
of the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and the leader of the | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
opposition, speaking directly to people of Scotland, my right | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
honourable friends and myself, and honourable member, speaking on | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
behalf of the vast majority of the people in Northern Ireland, they | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
want the United Kingdom to stay together, and it is my hope, that | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
some of those who are crowing today, may be disappointed after the | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
referendum. That is certainly my hope as well, and I am very pleased | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
the right honourable gentleman has been able to make this point. It | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
means in this short Question Time, we have heard from members from | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
England, Wales and Northern Ireland, with very clear message to the | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
people of Scotland, that we want them to stay. Mr Speaker, my parents | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
will soon celebrate their 60th wedding anniversary. My mother was | :02:16. | :02:23. | |
born in Aberdeen, and my father in Cambridge. Is my right honourable | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
friend reassured there is no need for any senior politicians to come | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
to their anniversary event, because my parents know in their heads, and | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
in their hearts, that in their union, as in the other union, they | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
are happier together and better together. | :02:43. | :02:43. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
Well I extend the congratulations of Her Majesty's Government to his | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
parents. And indeed, of the whole of the House of Commons, and I think | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
all the political parties in it. Even of the Scottish National Party | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
on this occasion, they are an example to us all, particularly | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
after 60 year, and I hope that example will be one that will | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
continue to be heeded and respected all over the UK. | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
Mr Speaker, contrary to the previous question, from temperature member | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
from Perth, this campaign has been fraught by fear and intimidation. | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
But is somewhat ironic, Mr Speaker, that the majority of the Scottish | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
separatists, have turned out for today's debate, yet just last fried | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
when we were discussing the important factor of welfare reform, | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
less than half of them turned out to a debate that justified, that | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
justifies their priorities to come here, to whinge rather than debate. | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
I don't think I needed a to the honourable member's description of | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
the Scottish National Party. Mr Scottish pro unionist friends have | :04:07. | :04:16. | |
reminded me that the Middle East peace envoy reportedly said he | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
welcomes the publication of the Chilcott report. Will he tell the | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
House when we can expect the report to be published? I can tell him this | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
work continues, that Lord Chilcott said he intends to publish the | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
report as soon as possible. There is no, I don't have any fixed date I | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
can give to my honourable friend. I will only observer had that inquiry | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
been set up when I and others first called for it and voted for it, in | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
2006, it would have reported long ago. It was set up late, it is | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
therefore reporting late an we look forward to it. Is it acceptable for | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
young people to be fed take away pizza at lunchtime, because the | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
government has failed to prepare schools properly for the | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
introduction of a free nutritious meal? Well, I think to put that into | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
perspective, I think the latest figures are that 98.5% of schools | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
are now providing a hot meal as they were intended to do, to infants, | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
that is going up all the time. There are Government funds of course to | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
help those schools who need new facilities to do so. It think it | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
would be right to welcome the entirety of that picture, rather | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
than trying to find fault with one small aspect of it. | :05:44. | :05:53. | |
STUDIO: It was like Hamlet without the Prince there. It was a bit of a | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
love in as well. Almost as if I am sure this is not the care, almost as | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
if the two frontbenches has choreographed their love for the | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
union and their hatred of Scottish independence as they cooed at each | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
other across the despatch box. Even the backbenchers got in on the act | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
with a lot of anti-independence questions coming from MPs, except | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
from the one Scottish Nationalist who asked a question, we didn't | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
learn anything new, some will have heard the sound of stable doors | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
closing as the horse has already bolted. Let us see what you thought | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
of it There was less of a love in among the viewers. This came from | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
Joan. It is undemocratic to offer more powers after many people have | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
posted their votes. Although it doesn't breach the Edinburgh | :06:41. | :06:42. | |
agreement it does breach the spirit of it. I don't want to be governed | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
by a bunch of Charlatans. This from Alistair. "We in non-Metropolitan | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
England need a concrete plan for real equal devolution, not LEP, | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
grand council or glorified unity authorities but devolution for all. | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
This from Bill. "Leaders have long their reason. Vote no and we will | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
give you more independence. No should mean no. Yes should mean yes. | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
Let us get rid of the Scottish Parliament. If we are better | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
together it is better to have one Parliament." This from Linda. "Let | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
them go. Move air and sea bases to Northumberland, be careful what | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
rights Scots are offered or we will all be up in arms." There we go. | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
Perhaps the most significant intervention came from John red wood | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
hen he asked the question who speaks for England? The English voice has | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
not really by heard in this campaign. It is clear we will hear | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
from England if the vote is yes. If it is no, then in other ways I think | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
we will be hearing from England as well. | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
Any way, the real action was not in the Commons today, it was north of | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
the border, with the Prime Minister being there, the leader of the | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
opposition and the Deputy Prime Minister too. While we were on air | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
David Cameron has been speaking in Edinburgh, to an audience there. Let | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
us have a look at what he has to say. | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
Sometimes because it is an election, a ballot, I think people can feel it | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
is like a general election, that you make a decision and five years later | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
you can make another one, if you are fed up with the Tory, give them a | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
kick and maybe we will think again this is tote definitely represent to | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
a general election this is a decision about not the next five | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
years, it is a decision about the next century. That was the Prime | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
Minister speaking in Scotland. James, this must have been put | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
together at the last minute. It was only yesterday we found out they | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
were going to Scotland. Yes it is. When we spoke to the Prime | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
Minister's spokesman we said when he is going up, we were told in the | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
last week. A decision was clearly taken, I think the moment of change | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
happened on Monday afternoon, after the Prime Minister's statement on | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
NATO. He and Ed Miliband met behind the speaker's chair in the Prime | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
Minister's offices there. They said we have to go up, they hatched this | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
plan to abandon PMQs and go up. Is it last minute? Yes, we saw the | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
Prime Minister not speaking from note, he swiftly moved off those, | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
talking passionately using words we don't normally here from a Prime | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
Minister, but clearly. Not publicly. Trying to inject a bit, this is not | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
just to use his words a chance to have a go at the effing Tories but a | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
wider decision. He was close to tears towards the end I have seen in | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
some reports. We will no doubt see that later. The Prime Minister said | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
in this speech, if Scotland did vote yes he would have to handle the | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
negotiations, up until 2015 when we see the result of the election. | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
Which suggests that he, that sort of reinforces his claim he will not | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
resign, if he loses Scotland. But my sources tell me there is a lot of | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
Tory MPs will want him to resign. There will be some Conservatives who | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
will call for him to go if a yes vote wins. The question to look for | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
is, are those conservative MPs the same ones who called for him to go | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
before or are there news one? If you are a Conservative MP you might be | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
furious, passionate and angry if that is what happen, the loss of the | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
union, you will be thinking what are the best chances for me in 2015? Do | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
they think a divisive leadership contest, is that the best way to do | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
it, or do they try and say, look, this, the Prime Minister has taken | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
the hit, he will be forever known as the Prime Minister who presighed | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
over the loss of the union and hope he goes, you know, at the time of | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
the election. So, he is making very clear, and privately his people made | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
clear he is not going to, because they believe there will be enough | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
people who will say, no, now is not the to lose a Prime Minister, | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
because will not, you will get saying do we want have that | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
uncertainty? Probably not. It is having an effect on your party, the | :11:13. | :11:20. | |
Conservative Party's, standing and reputation, the before this, what | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
you might call the crisis in the friend came up, you were almost | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
getting nip and tuck with Labour, you are seven points behind. There | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
is no appetite among my Conservative colleagues for any change in | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
leadership. It is above party politics. It is not a destroy of | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
strength. David Cameron is our Prime Minister now, he will be ourpm after | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
the friend because there will be huge decisions that have to be | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
taken. The leader of the Conservative and unionist party will | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
have lost the union. Some Tory backbenchers are describing him as | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
the Lord north of the 21st century. The Prime Minister who lost the | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
American colonies. We have provided the opportunity for the people of | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
Scotland to have this discussion, they are taking the decision, it | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
isn't about David Cameron, Ed Miliband or any Westminster | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
politician, it is about what the people of Scotland choose, we want | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
them to make the right decision, which is to stick with the UK. If, | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
is it not something of a crisis for Ed Miliband as well, because the | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
Labour Party has dominated the better together campaign, they have | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
called the shots, we saw that again with Gordon Brown this week, and if | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
it is a yes vote, it will be because Mr Miliband could not convince | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
enough of his own supporters to vote for the union. He couldn't get them | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
out. So therefore, he will go down as being a man who lost the union. | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
We don't know what is going to happen. I am saying if it is a yes | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
vote. This is a distraction, the most serious implication of a yes | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
vote next week is separation of Scotland from a 300-year-old union | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
and a real risk it diminishes our voice in the world, in terms of the | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
UN, we heard from from your report, these are the serious implications | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
of separation. We know that but the men, you know, when China went | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
Communist there was a huge debate who lost China, in America. There | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
are, who lost Iran was a great debate after 1979 and the people in | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
power at the time, have to take some of the responsibility. Now, Mr | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
Cameron is the Prime Minister, so he is the man who would be leader at | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
the time if this was to happen. But we know from the polls that 95% of | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
Scottish Conservatives intend to vote for the union, we also know | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
from the latest polls that maybe 30-35% of Labour voters are going to | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
vote for independence. Now that is pure surely a major problem for Ed | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
Miliband. We don't know yet how the voters are going to vote. We won't | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
know until polling day. We have seen the trends. Why prematurely engage | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
in a blame game. We don't know what is going to happen. What is | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
important is we make the arguments, that Scotland should stay within the | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
family of nation, for all the positive reasons but we outline the | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
risks and to be frank I think this is a bit of a distraction, having a | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
potential blame game scenario, it trikes me as... The better together | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
campaign was about 20 points ahead and it is closed. Who is to blame | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
for that? There has been a significant percentage of people in | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
Scotland who are undecided. Now, according to a poll yesterday there | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
are still 20% of people, that is a massive number of people, one in | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
five people in Scotland still undecided. There is still all to | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
play for, you know, the polls were always going to narrow. The better | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
together campaign has been ahead for the last weeks and month, it was | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
always going to be closer to the time of the referendum, I really | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
think you know discussion about David Cameron's future and Ed | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
Miliband's future is a distraction. When the focus should be on the real | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
issue at hand which is what will happen to Scotland, and the rest of | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
us, if they vote for separation. I understand we are a week away from a | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
referendum in which the polls are nip and tuck. It is only right that | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
the rest of the United Kingdom should start to think more than it | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
has, about the consequences of a yes vote, so let me ask another question | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
along these line, if it is a yes vote should the general election in | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
May be postpones. I don't see a clear reason why. Why | :15:31. | :15:43. | |
should Scotland get to vote if it has already voted to depart the | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
United Kingdom? I think we continue as business so far, work that is set | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
back in primary legislation, you need to come act of Parliament and | :15:53. | :15:54. | |
reworked the legislation to do that. The simplest thing is you | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
press ahead and at the point in 2016 if Scotland does vote yes for | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
independence, that is the point the Scottish MPs, we lose them from | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
Westminster. You could be in a position of Labour forming the next | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
government, only because of the 40 or so MPs cut from Scotland. MPs | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
will be temporary, will be leaving with Independence Day on 2016. That | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
would make you a government of the walking wounded right from the | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
start. Under the eyes of the English, illegitimate. Firstly, I | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
think there is no question that we could go beyond a parliament of five | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
years. I think, if I'm right in saying, that would not be | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
constitutional, and it certainly would set a kind of dangerous | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
precedent for elections in the future. And secondly, we just simply | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
don't know what's going to happen next week. Obviously, I hope that we | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
win the general election next year with a significant majority. This is | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
kind of uncharted territory, in terms of the what ifs and the | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
wherefores. Until we know what happens on Thursday next week, I'm | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
not sure this is where the date is at. Westminster, that YouGov poll | :17:05. | :17:13. | |
has concentrated minds in Westminster and they are now | :17:14. | :17:15. | |
thinking about the consequences of this. For example, if Mr Miliband | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
wins the next general election in 2015, I would suggest he could not | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
appoint a Scottish minister in any department because every government | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
department will be involved in setting up the rest of the UK's | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
divorce terms, so you can't put the other side on your side. That will | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
have to be decided by legislation. It is very clear the negotiating | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
teams on both sides will have to be specifically set out, and that... | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
You say Westminster is waking up, and yet the most astonishing thing | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
is that Westminster and Whitehall have not made contingency plans. | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
Whenever I am told this, I say, surely not, but all these officials | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
say they are not doing it, even the Cabinet Secretary said before | :18:02. | :18:02. | |
Parliamentary committee this week we have not done it because we have | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
been told by our political masters not to do it. And yet, if a Yes vote | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
is successful, there are hundreds of questions about how you and stitch | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
Scotland from the rest of the United Kingdom. What happens to all the | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
civil servants who work for the UK in Scotland, what happens to the | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
civil servants who work in England or Wales or Northern Ireland for | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
Scotland? Do they lose their jobs, do they have to move anywhere? On | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
top of all the other issues we have talked about, currency and defence, | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
they're all of those issues too, and yet there is no contingency plan for | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
that matters the most extraordinary thing about this. If there is a Yes | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
vote, they will be very busy from the early hours of 19 September | :18:44. | :18:44. | |
onwards. Until 2016. Now, as the general election looms, | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
all the parties are desperately trying to raise enough cash to | :18:50. | :18:51. | |
finance their campaigns. At the 2010 general election, | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
parties spent more than ?31 million on the campaigns, and this was down | :18:55. | :18:56. | |
from the 2005 general election, But how do party officials persuade | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
people to part with their cash, and is it always done | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
for the right reasons? Here's the journalist Alice Thomson | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
with her soapbox on why we need state funding | :19:07. | :19:08. | |
for our political parties. We all enjoy a nice lunch, | :19:09. | :19:22. | |
but it seems politicians, especially our leaders, are being forced to | :19:23. | :19:24. | |
eat more than the rest of us. Leading figures across all parties | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
are expected to wine and dine influential businessmen | :19:29. | :19:30. | |
and celebrities, in order to try to It's time we looked at alternatives | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
- not least because of our In smart restaurants | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
and boardrooms across London, We have Labour cosying up to | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
the unions. Since Ed Miliband became leader, | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
they've provided ?8 out of every The Tories host balls | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
and auctions to win a drink with the Chancellor or a tennis match | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
with the Prime Minister. In the first three months of this | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
year, they raised ?6.6 million. As next year's general election | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
looms, all the parties need to raise enough cash to pay for | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
their general election campaigns. It's not enough to have | :20:07. | :20:08. | |
a manifesto and candidates, So instead of focusing ideas, | :20:09. | :20:10. | |
they are wasting time and energy on entertaining rich potential | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
donors desperate for influence The solution is state funding | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
of political parties. Spending limits should be cut | :20:19. | :20:26. | |
and donations capped. Parties would then be forced to | :20:27. | :20:28. | |
concentrate After all, there are more people | :20:29. | :20:30. | |
signing up to the Caravan Club But they refuse to do this, | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
worried that voters will recoil at having to pay more | :20:37. | :20:44. | |
for the antics of this venal lot. They should find | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
the courage to make their case. The Queen costs each | :20:48. | :20:49. | |
taxpayer 56 pence a year. In return, | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
we don't have to worry, she is and dining people for a stack | :20:54. | :20:55. | |
of cash, to keep the show on road. That should be the example | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
for all our politicians. Alice Thomson joins us now from that | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
rather swanky restaurant. Are you saying that politics rarely is that | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
correct, that is the only way to clean it out, to have state funding? | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
It's not that it's corrupt, it is just that they waste an awful amount | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
of time wining and dining, and have the Prime Minister spending that | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
amount of time is a waste. It is the same with the unions, they are far | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
too influential. It is not exactly corrupt but I think the worst it | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
probably gets is that there are so many peers in the House of Lords who | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
have given money to one of the parties. I just don't like that, I | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
would prefer to give the money myself actually. I would not mind | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
spending 40p a year. Dare I say it come you may be alone or in a very | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
small minority, because generally people just don't want to give money | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
in that way to the funding of political parties. It is not in | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
fashion. It is not in fashion because of the ways MPs have | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
behaved, but that is not to say it is wrong. I actually think it would | :21:58. | :21:59. | |
rarely help politics and it would clean it up, and then you would get | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
better people in the House of Lords, and also you would get the | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
politicians concentrating on the right issues. I don't want them to | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
spend a lot of time with very rich people and unions, I would like them | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
to spend a lot of time with more normal people, campaigning and being | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
in their constituency. But even if there was some state funding, even | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
if people did give donations or there was more money coming from | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
individual electors, wouldn't that still go on? Wouldn't there be | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
wining and dining anyway? You're not going to end that whole industry in | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
itself with state funding. I think they would be lobbying, but it would | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
be more lobbying campaigns, and it would not be individual very rich | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
people and the unions having much more sway than they would be able to | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
have if the money was not involved. And you would get better people in | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
the House of Lords. Stephen Crabb, are you convinced by that argument? | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
I'm not. Alice herself said we do not have a corrupt system in the UK, | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
actually the UK has one of the best systems are financing the business | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
of politics. In Germany for example, you have a large amount of state | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
funding and that does not tackle all the problems there either. The | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
public would say what about MPs expenses, cash the question is, what | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
about MPs being secretly filmed by your colleagues. That does say there | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
is a level of corruption that might not be there with state funding. And | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
all of that has led to improvements in the system, greater | :23:26. | :23:26. | |
transparency, greater accountability, so the system is | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
getting better. We need to go further, we need to have a cap on | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
donations, screen out some of the wrong influence there is a system | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
but we are getting better. It is an easy thing to knock your own | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
political system but it is an awful lot better than so many others out | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
there. As a party, we feel it should fall around ?50,000, the cap, we | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
think that is an acceptable limit in somebody wanting to donate their own | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
money they have turned to a political party. Do you ever think | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
there will be state funding introduced? Wane ever ever? Let's | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
talk about the next few elections. Certainly not in the foreseeable | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
future. I think there is still a lack of trust in politicians, | :24:10. | :24:17. | |
unfortunately. The MPs expenses scandal looms large. I am very | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
synthetic to what Alice says. In terms of House of Lords, there is a | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
much simpler solution, have an elected House of Lords to get around | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
this phenomenon new speak about. I would certainly -- that you speak | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
about. I would like to see a cap on donations, I think 50 grand is far | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
too high. I do access the argument that politicians are spending quite | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
a bit of time raising this kind of money. But, unfortunately, I think | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
you have outlined, Jo, the public appetite, and I'm sure we will get a | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
lot of responsiveness on Twitter, it is not really there for state | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
funding. A lot of responsiveness on Twitter, it is not really there for | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
state funding. It doesn't sound like more pay, but what I'm saying is | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
what we will give you is more money for your party for you to do that so | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
you can concentrate on all the potent issues. We are not saying we | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
want more pay, let's be clear about that. The authority have told us. I | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
think they are wrong, because in the public sector for example... But you | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
haven't got a say in it, do you? This morning has brought | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
an announcement of an important new line up; no, it's not | :25:32. | :25:33. | |
the starting XI for this Saturday's Arsenal squad, it is, of course, the | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
role allocations for Jean Claude Lord Hill is the British | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
representative So let's take | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
a look at what he ended up with, It is not quite a key job at the | :25:43. | :26:05. | |
moment. There are other more important jobs. The economic one was | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
one that Britain might have got, the internal market as well. | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
The top economics position goes to Pierre Moscovici, | :26:15. | :26:16. | |
a French Socialist, who will now be responsible for EU economic policy. | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
This will pose questions about the EU's approach to deficit | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
This particularly now that the French manners in there, perhaps | :26:28. | :26:38. | |
Brussels won't be as strong on deficit reduction as it was before. | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
Here's what Juncker had to say earlier this morning. | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
We are at the beginning of a new commission. We have an exceptional | :26:45. | :26:53. | |
opportunity, but also an obligation to make a fresh start and get down | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
to work to address the very difficult geopolitical situation, to | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
strengthen the economic recovery, and to build a united Europe that | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
delivers jobs and growth to its citizens. I think I have the right | :27:10. | :27:18. | |
team to do so. That was Jean-Claude Juncker, joining me now from | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
Brussels a la Europe correspondent, Chris Morris. How did Jonathan Hill | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
actually get that job? We didn't think he would get any of the top | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
jobs, certainly not in financial services. The joke was he would be | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
in charge of multilingualism, but David Cameron has pushed hard to get | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
a senior economic job, and I think if you had offered Downing Street | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
the job of Commissioner in charge of financial stability and financial | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
services six weeks ago is they would bitten your hand. It involves | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
supervision of banks and other matters which really affect the City | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
of London, so I think what it is as quite a big olive branch, if you | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
like, from Jean-Claude Juncker, because don't forget it was only a | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
couple of months ago that Cameron said he was absolutely the wrong man | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
for the job. And I don't think the Juncker team have forgotten that | :28:06. | :28:13. | |
level of criticism. But they have put it to one side to get on with | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
business. We are almost running out of time. | :28:17. | :28:18. | |
There's just time to put you out of your misery, and give you | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
All that rotting rubbish and the strikes should have been enough. It | :28:22. | :28:29. | |
was also the year of the referendum on Scottish devolution, that was the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
one they lost, they won the 197, the Jeremy Thorpe trial, Stephen, you | :28:34. | :28:41. | |
get to press the buzzer. And the winner | :28:42. | :28:49. | |
The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now. | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
I'm off to Scotland for a special This Week live from Edinburgh, | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
then I'll stay in Auld Reekie for a Daily Politics special on Friday. | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
But don't worry, I'll be back here at noon tomorrow with all the | :29:01. | :29:03. |