Browse content similar to 18/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
THEME MUSIC . | :00:09. | :00:37. | |
On the day the people of Scotland head to the polls to determine | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
They're expected to vote in record numbers. | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling led the way this morning to | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
the polling booths, where they face one simple question. | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
Should Scotland be an independent country? | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
The US House of Representatives has approved | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
President Obama's plan to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels. | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
But is the international community doing enough to drive back IS? | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
Is the House of Lords getting too big for it's boots? | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
It's certainly not getting any smaller and there are calls | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
And I'm a politician, get me out of here. | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
We'll be asking what it must be like governing from the Aussie outback. | :01:27. | :01:36. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration former | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
Foreign Office Minister, and former Deputy Secretary General of the | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
First to Scotland, where 97% of those elligible to vote | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
That's 4.3 million registered voters. | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
The turnout is expected to be much higher than a general election. | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
We don't talk issues on voting day but let's cross to the BBC's | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
Assistant Political Editor, Norman Smith in Glasgow to talk logistics. | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
Norman, have we seen early signs yet of this predicted big turnout? I | :02:10. | :02:18. | |
think we have actually, Andrew, certainly if you think of most | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
general elections, early doors in the morning they are usually one man | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
and a dog at the polling station. The polling stations here have had | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
queues outside them really, not all of them, but quite a lot have had | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
queueing outside them from early in the morning which would suggest yes, | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
this indeed will be a huge turnout. The weather is you know, dry and | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
mild, although frankly searches the intensity of the debate even if it | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
was snowing and hailstorms people would still go to the polls! If you | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
look at the postal vote, something like 80% of those has been | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
returned. In Edinburgh, the City Council are saying 89% of postal | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
votes have been returned. We are on course I think for the biggest | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
turnout possibly we have seen in any election in the UK or Scotland. What | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
we are seeing today, frankly, is an extraordinarily, the huge effort by | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
both sides to try to make sure they get the vote out. Such is the | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
closeness of the polls, this may well hinge on which side is better | :03:23. | :03:33. | |
able to get out of the vote. The no say they have volunteers in every | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
single council ward, the yes campaign say they have 20,000 | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
volunteers knocking on doors and helping people to the polling | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
stations. There is an old quote which goes along the lines of, in | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
politics, ideas is important but organisation is even more | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
important. Translated into the modern context this means, is that | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
you got to get your vote out. At the end of the day that could actually | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
be the deciding factor despite the months of the arguments. The polling | :04:01. | :04:10. | |
stations will close at ten o'clock, if they are still queueing, have | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
they made any provision for that? If you turn of the last minute and you | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
are in the queue, you are OK, you will still get to vote, it is not | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
like the shutter comes down at ten o'clock and you miss your | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
once-in-a-lifetime chance. You'll still get the vote. In terms of the | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
results, they will start coming in from about two o'clock. The real | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
benchmark moment, I think though, will not come until very late into | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
the early morning, probably between 5-6 AM. We are expecting the results | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
shortly after 6am, that is what accounting officer said. Five | :04:49. | :04:50. | |
o'clock seems to me, if you are wanting to know when you should get | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
up, I would get up at 5am. At five, we will get Edinburgh and Glasgow, | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
together they make up about 20% of the vote. Glasgow may well be the | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
critical factor. Whether the Labour vote in Glasgow holds up already | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
goes to the Nationalists. We should get a result somewhere between 6-7. | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
All sorts of wrinkles, there could be recounts and problems getting the | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
votes out from the islands, it could be later. We want people to join us | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
at 10:40pm, on BBC1 tonight, stick with us for the direction. LAUGHTER | :05:30. | :05:37. | |
-- for the duration. Results will be declared in the 32 local districts | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
in Scotland, a bit like a general election in that sense. Explain this | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
to me: There can be a recount in each of the districts but there | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
cannot be a recount on the total, is that right? If we have a result | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
which says one side gets, I don't know, 49.5% of the vote and the | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
other side gets 50.5%, and everybody says that's very close, let's | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
recount. It's too late. One we get to the final numbers it is too late. | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
You can only recount at the local level, only at the local level can | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
you have the recount. You cannot do it on a national level, they would | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
be done at the local authority level, it does not matter how close | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
it is, even if it is decided by one vote that is the outcome. One vote | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
could determine the future of Scotland and the United Kingdom. It | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
will determine the future of the United Kingdom because there will be | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
massive constitutional change, whatever happens. We will have to | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
unpick pensions and welfare and defence, oil, debt, massive | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
upheaval. With the No vote, there will be massive constitutional | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
change too, it is hard to see how the English, Welsh and Northern | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Irish will say that's fine, you have more powers and we will sit and do | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
nothing. Thank you for joining us try and grab some sleep before this | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
evening. CHUCKLES I don't think there will be much | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
sleep. No. CHUCKLES The former Labour Minister Alan | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
Johnson has suggested Ed Miliband should have spent time doing | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
something else before entering politics, so the question | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
for today is: At the end of the show Mark | :07:25. | :07:25. | |
will give us the correct answer. Overnight the US House of | :07:26. | :07:38. | |
Representatives approved President Obama's plan to train and arm the | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
moderate Syrian opposition taking It comes a week after the President | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
outlined his new, broader strategy to combat the | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
militant group which is operating Here the Foreign Secretary, | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
Philip Hammond, has said the UK will play a "leading role" in the | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
international effort to combat IS. What that role will be, is not yet | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
clear. So far the US has carried out | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
174 airstrikes across Iraq. The action has helped halt | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
the advance of IS militants: in August Iraqi army and | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
Kurdish Peshmerga forces, assisted by American airstrikes, | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
recaptured the Mosul dam The UK has | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
so far sent ?1.6 million worth of weapons and ammunition to | :08:27. | :08:34. | |
the Kurdish Peshmerga forces who However, one British hostage, | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
David Haines, has already been Another, Alan Henning, | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
has also been threatened. Australia has also said it will send | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
600 military personnel, including special forces troops, | :08:48. | :09:00. | |
and eight fighter jets. Overnight President Obama won | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
congressional approval for a 500 million dollar plan to arm | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
the moderate Syrian opposition. But the president reiterated that he | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
would not be committing US boots A little earlier I spoke to the | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
Conservative MP Adam Holloway via Skype, so apologies for the quality | :09:16. | :09:24. | |
of the line. He is on a fact-finding mission in northern Iraq. I asked | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
him if he had seen the effects of So what the air strikes have done is | :09:28. | :09:39. | |
they've made it impossible now for IS to form up together and hammer | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
down the road to attack cities. Because it is too dangerous for them | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
to congregate. They have been very important. Even so, 45 ministers not | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
sound very far away, you must have spoken to residents of Irbil, how | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
imminent do they think the threat still is? With my colleagues I went | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
down to the front line a couple of days ago. It is very quiet down | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
there. You can imagine. The Peshmerga, the local Kurdish | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
forces, they are equipped for fighting in mountains, they are not | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
equipped for fighting on the flat ground which is the front line. So | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
they don't have the long-range weapons yet. So those air strikes | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
are very, very important. As one Peshmerga commander put it to me, he | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
said, we woke up one morning to find that we had a 1000 kilometre front | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
line with the most dangerous organisation in the world, they need | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
help. Do they need more weapons and ammunition than is being sent to | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
them currently? There is a lot coming in. Overnight at the airport | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
planes were arriving. Certainly on the front of line where we were at, | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
the commander told us he had not got any additional weapons. But look, | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
that is about defending the Kurdish areas. But this is not a military | :11:11. | :11:18. | |
problem. This is a political problem... You know, we imagine that | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
the answer to a problem like this, is just to bomb everyone, it's not. | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
ISIS have not appeared and taken over this chunk of Iraq by accident, | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
they have taken over by the -- because the Sunni groups were fed up | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
with the Shia government in Baghdad. When people came to Mosul, | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
a lot of the locals felt it was better living with ISIS than it was | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
living with the Shias, the only difference is that ISIS would not | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
let them smoke. What response should the UK Government to take on is it | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
time to sign up for air strikes with the Americans in Iraq and Syria? | :12:04. | :12:11. | |
Absolutely not, this is not a military problem, this is a | :12:12. | :12:21. | |
political problem. Australia is now deploying military capabilities. We | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
will be joined by a representative of the Australian government in a | :12:27. | :12:27. | |
moment. Mark Malloch Brown. Mr Obama talking | :12:28. | :12:43. | |
about arming the "moderate" Syrian Rebels, Hillary Clinton wanted him | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
to do that in 2012 when it was clear who the moderates were. He didn't do | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
it. Isn't he two years too late? It is playing catch-up but it doesn't | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
mean it's not worth doing, and there's a real need to build a | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
moderate middle. But not much to play with here, I mean, too little | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
too late probably. A lot of people will feel because the moderates have | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
been on the defensive, they are the secular Rebels rather than the | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
moderates, they've been on the defensive the two years. They've | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
taken a lot of defeat at the hands of the Islamists. You give them | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
these weapons and once again they could easily end up in the hands of | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
the Islamists. That's the real risk and you will find from the officials | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
briefing Congress, these weapons will be put in carefully and slowly | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
to make sure that they are going into reliable hands. But when we see | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
that ISIS's fighting power comes from weapons that they captured from | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
the Iraqis, American weapons, this is a real risk. But for the | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
president, the alternative that somebody raised, that he made a deal | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
with President Assad to combine to take on ISIS, was a much less | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
palatable option. It would be even more end raging to Sunni opinion in | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
the region and it would have been a U-turn which would have been an | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
acceptable for Western opinion. -- an acceptable. | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
, we become the -- isn't there the danger that we now become the air | :14:17. | :14:26. | |
force for the Peshmerga forces and any other forces on the ground? Yes, | :14:27. | :14:34. | |
this is what we may end up doing. Is this wise? I think it is | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
inevitable, Andrew, because nobody else is coming forward to do this. | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
The Arab world has affected their forces... Why don't they use them? | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
-- effective air forces. I would agree, it is time you say, the Arab | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
world, don't you care what is happening in your region? These | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
people are a greater threat to the national security of the Arab world | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
than they are to the United Kingdom and the United States. Yet they seem | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
to be implying, let us do it again, that's exactly playing into the | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
hands of ISIS, that is what they want us to do. We then take the lead | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
in the air and on the ground and ISIS will present that as the evil | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
West against the Muslim world which is their intention. | :15:24. | :15:43. | |
Qatar has some undercover involvement with ISIS, the United | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
Arab Emirates is different and I am sure we will see some kind of | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
support. In that sense, to give President Obama and John Kerry their | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
due, they are trying to do this the way the first Gulf War was done and | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
not the second Iraq conflict. They are trying to build a coalition of | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
the willing, the secretary has been to the Middle East and has talked to | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
these governments, tried to get some kind of commitment from them. I | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
think the Americans understand the issue as much as we do. But if you | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
are the UAE, or Qatar, you don't really want to get involved, there | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
is no terrorism in these countries. They stay out of things, they are | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
prospering. Two of the richest city states, Joe Hart and Dubai, and Abu | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
Dhabi, -- These are very small states which | :16:36. | :16:50. | |
already feel quite beleaguered in their neighbourhood with Iran just | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
across the strait from them. And, frankly, they cannot survive growing | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
turbulence in the region. They can't be kind of isolated islands from | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
this. So, you are right, they hate to do something which would import | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
terrorism into their states, but equally, theyp can't allow the world | :17:11. | :17:18. | |
and themselves to stand idly by as ISIS consolidates itself. I would | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
suggest to you, that it is unconceivable that the UAE or Saudis | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
or Qatar would deploy ground troops against Isil It is unlikely but | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
shouldn't be inconceivable because frankly, they need to start thinking | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
about how they are going to stop this huge problem that is going to | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
contaminate the Middle East. It cannot just be us. The public, you | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
know, our public here, have no appetite for us putting ground | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
troops in. Neither has the Government. But, in the end, perhaps | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
we should never, ever say - we will never, ever do anything. When I | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
useded to negotiate, as Mark used, to we would never, ever give away a | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
card that we hold in our hand easily. I will never say that we | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
would never put ground troops in on the ground because actually, we | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
might have to, if we were directly threatened, Andrew. This is he a us, | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
but as a military man, would you like to give us your assessment of | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
the fighting capabilities of the UAE, Saudi and Qatar forces? Not | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
particularly, but you are going to press me so the answer is, not | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
great. So we cannot put too much faith in them. No. We are down to | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
arming the permother capital gains tax which does know how to fight, | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
particularly if they have modern weapons -- the Peshmerga. | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
And to hoping that the Americans can do something to revive and put some | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
steel into the Iraqi Army. Exactly and that's what we are hoping to do | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
and this is' what American and British intentions will be. I think | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
it is important, Adam Holloway's point in the interview, in which he | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
said the ultimate solution is a political solution. We have to look | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
at the military as containing the problem, recovering the major cities | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
back into Government hands but then it is - how do you reenfranchise the | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
sunnies? How do you remove their sense of grievance which lets them | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
breed movements like ISIS. But essentially ly a sunny-Shia civil | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
war. -- a Sunni-Shia civil war? I think it is generational. It took 30 | :19:28. | :19:39. | |
years in Europe. This is producing religious-based fanatic terrorist | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
organisations because their religious majority, their fellow | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
co-religionists, feel they are excluded from the politics of the | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
countries where they aring living. So that, is only something, that | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
this region can do, by creating much more inclusive, much more | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
accountable, much more democratic government structures than this | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
strange mixture of authoritarianism and religious exclusionism that we | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
have at the moment. But we are seeing the rewriting of the Middle | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
East map. The Middle East map was rewritten during the First World War | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
and it was implemented. It has broadly stayed like that. These are | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
the boundaries since then. It's now been redrawn again. It is going to | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
be redrawn by forces on the ground. Undoubted youly Undoubted ly, that's | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
why I say we are in this for a generation. That's again, why these | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
air strikes need to be put into context. They need to be short and | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
decisive. You do not want a generation-long commitment of | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
Western Forces resolving something that only Arabs can solve for | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
themselves. Are we going, "we", Britain, going to join the Americans | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
and probably now the Australians in air strikes? Probably. We may have | :20:50. | :20:57. | |
no choice. We don't want to, but we may have no choice. | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
Is there enough spoer from MPs? Doer support. I think it is quite a lot | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
of support from MPs. From both sides of the House. I'm talking about | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
friends in the Labour Party and on the backbenches. But the problem is, | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
we don't want to go further. What did you make of the remarks of the | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
former Attorney-General, Dominic Grieve, now a backbench colleague of | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
yours on the Conservative side, who hold Jo yesterday that any mission | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
had to be limited to protecting civilians, not removing IS? That's | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
his view. We might have to have a different view to that, but that's | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
Dominic's view. I deeply respect that. He is a good bloke. But you | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
don't share it, do you? I don't. My view is that if we are about to see | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
a major advance, we may well have to take them on from the air. | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
His implication was it wouldn't be legal to do that, it would have to | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
be framed with a humanitarian view with limited air strikes to protect | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
the civil ian population -- civilian population, contain, not defeat. | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
Well if you can do, that great. But in the end when you have these | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
people burying hundreds of people, in the hand. That's humanitarian | :22:10. | :22:22. | |
with me When they are attacking ISIS in in Iraqi territory, all we need | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
is the invitation of the government. Syria he was talking bflt You have | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
more of a point there in Syrian. The Syrian Government has tow invite you | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
-- Syrian Government who has to invite you in or you have to go to | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
the UN. And we don't talk to them. Today, over 100 British Muslim | :22:39. | :22:49. | |
imams, organisations and individuals have signed a statement calling for | :22:50. | :22:51. | |
the release of the British hostage They also express their "horror and | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
revulsion" at the killing of another hostage, David Haines, and call | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
the group "un-Islamic fanatics". One of those who signed up to the | :23:00. | :23:01. | |
letter, Muddassar Ahmed, he joins us Why, at this particular time, as Mr | :23:02. | :23:13. | |
Henning was taken captive in December last year? It wasn't made | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
public. People weren't aware of the issue. I thought the family were | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
keeping it - wanted a slightly lower profile on the issue but I thought | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
it's an important step that this letter was eventually written and | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
pulled together. I think it represents a very wide range of | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
British Muslim opinion Do you accept that wide range, though it may be, | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
that it is not the kind of opinion that there is folks -- the folks at | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
IS will have any interest in listening to? I don't know. I think | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
one thing that's very important is that IS are spoking to in a | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
terminology and a language they understand. I think what is | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
interesting here is that the British Muslims that went with Alan to Syria | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
and travelled with him, are the ones that are leading the calls for him | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
to be released. I think it is interesting - of course it is not | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
crystal clear how they will respond - but I don't suppose we will be | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
able to ignore it easily. Should such robust statements not have come | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
before so many young British Muslims went to join IS? I think that the - | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
I think there have been statements before. I think a lot of work has | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
been done by the Muslim community in Britain to ensure that young British | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
Muslims don't go out there. It hasn't worked, has it? It is | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
interesting. It has and it hasn't. It is interesting to see - we have | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
been hearing reports that there are young British Muslims out there that | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
want to come back, that realise they have made a mistake. Remember there | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
was a huge effort by young British Muslims to go out and help the | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
humanitarian aid in Syria and the fog of war, some young men made the | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
decision to join IS. It is interesting and for me heartening to | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
hear that some want to come back. We need to be prepared and open, | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
because there is nothing more powerful than having a young British | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
Muslim who is been out there, who is disenchanted and realised that ISIS | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
has nothing to do with Islam and Muslims, to come back and tell the | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
rest of us. If they are genuine. Well, that's something we need to | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
figure out in due course. But, I think it may well be, but we need to | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
be open to that responsibility. -- possibility. Do we have much | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
evidence? Because it is almost taken, almost as an assumption, that | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
the worst of the ones who are out there, have been radicalised by | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
mosques or imams in Britain. Some of the backgrounds of the ones I have | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
seen, would suggest that they are no better, really than gangsters, that | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
they have not really had anything to do with the mosques or religion in | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
Britain and they are simply now being offered a bigger, more grisly | :25:50. | :25:57. | |
playing field for their gangsterism? I think that's riechlted you have | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
think the the nail on the head. These young men going out there seem | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
to be less motivated by Islam and more motivated by other reasons and | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
perhaps some is linked to lower social economic backgrounds they are | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
from and they are being attracted or disenp chanted by their and the to | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
live here, so they are being attracted to go out there and fight | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
in this certain way. I think that, you know, it is important that we | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
find ways - that part of the solution here is finding long-term | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
ways to bring these people and make them feel more part of British | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
society as a whole. In the short term, we knead to be open to the | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
fact that some have simply made a mistake and we need to be able to | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
let them integrate normally back into society when they come back. | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
What do you think now could be done? What is the single biggest thing we | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
can do, now, to stop more young British Muslims going to join the | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
terrorists? I think there is a couple of things. First of all, the | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
letter that happened today is a great example of something positive, | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
that shows that the vast majority of British Muslims are sick and tired | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
of ISIS and are horrified, as everybody else is, by the crimes | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
that they have committed and are about to commit. So, understanding | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
those voices, encourages those voices to speak out more is one | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
step. I think the other thing that might be helpful in this, is that | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
not speaking to ISIS, in terms of the way they want us to address them | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
- so, there is nothing Islamic about them, they are not a state. They | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
don't have the backing of Islamic scholars in the region. In fact, | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
what they have done, is they have destroyed centuries' old Islamic | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
civilisation in Iraq. Everything about them is anti-Islamic. We need | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
to frame it in that sense. Thank you for joining us and explaining the | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
reasons hyped your statement today. As promised, we are joined by the | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
Australian High Commissioner. He has fought his way through the London | :27:47. | :27:48. | |
traffic. Welcome. Overnight in Australia we have been hearing about | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
anti-terror raids, extensive anti-terror raids in Sydney and | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
Brisbane. Can you bring us up-to-speed? Well, about 600 police | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
mounted some raids in a variety of suburbs, mainly in Sydney but also | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
Brisbane and detained around 15 people and arrested - and had one | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
person charged. This is tied up with concerns that the police have had | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
that there could be a terrorist operation, or a criminal operation | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
in Australia which could include beheading. And there had been some | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
links. Attempts to behead in Australia? In Australia, yes. So, | :28:26. | :28:34. | |
potentially a random attack - as no not identifying a specific person, | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
but randomly choosing somebody or several people and killing them, and | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
possibly killing them by beheading them. Do we think this is linked to | :28:43. | :28:50. | |
the events in Iraq/Syria, where we know with some British Muslims there | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
are some American Muslims in there, too. We think we have about 60 | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
fighters as part of Isil in Syria and Iraq. And we think there are | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
links with Isil, yes. Now Prime Minister Abbott has committed 600 | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
Australian troops, eight fighter jets to help combat ISIS in the | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
region. Exactly what would their role be, can you tell us? It remains | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
to be seen, because at this stage, the Americans haven't made anip | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
final decisions on what they are going to do -- made any decisions on | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
what they are going to do. We are not looking on boots on the ground | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
to use the phrase. What would the troops be, if not boots on the | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
ground? Some people would be there to provide support to the Air Force. | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
To the Australian Air Force? Yes, to people like that. But Mr Abbott has | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
said they may be called on "to disrupt and degrade." This is going | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
to depend on how the Americans ultimately define the mission and we | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
will have to be satisfied with the way they ha defined the mission. We | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
went to get -- they have defined the mission. We want to get the assets | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
ready in case there is a call for action on us. And we are making the | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
call to America and other allies that we are prepared to shoulder the | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
burden ourselves not leaving everything to the British and | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
Americans. Is Australia a reliable ally? To America? We are reliable. | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
You are close and getting closer. You have bought striker jets from | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
America. I don't think we are buying as many as the UK, but if that's the | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
definition of a close ally, is it? # Britain and Australia are both very | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
close and reliable allies of the United States. The reason for that | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
is that we have a common view, and common values and often common | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
perspectives about what needs to be done. So we are different countries, | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
we are Sovereign in our own rights but often come to the same | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
conclusions. To be fair, all three of our countries know that Isil | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
should not, over time, be allowed to control substantial slice of | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
territory in the Middle East. That the Iraqi security forces, the | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
Peshmerga have to be supported in rolling back Isil. | :31:09. | :31:15. | |
Britain is going to follow in its footsteps? This is a great move and | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
a necessary move from Australia, you have to put Australia's own | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
interests, and Alexander would agree. Australia lives in a | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
difficult region with a resurgent China, it is important for Australia | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
that the US engages in the Pacific region and offers security, an | :31:34. | :31:42. | |
alternative to China. The Americans have a new naval base just outside | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
Darwin. We are not allowed to call it a naval base. If it looks like | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
one it probably is. They are going to rotate troops. Marines. Last time | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
I looked they were in the U.S. Navy. They are not being based there. | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
There could be another one in Western Australia as well, the | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
Americans are looking at... We haven't been looking at so much new | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
American bases, but the Americans being able to deploy through | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
Australia. Does Australian public opinion back what the Prime Minister | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
has announced? I think it does, the Liberal party, Tony Abbott's party, | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
and the Labour Party, the main opposition, support what the | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
government is doing. The Green party does not but other than that, I | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
think the mainstream public opinion supports it. We don't often get the | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
High Commissioner on our programme, we don't want you to go. It is | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
Joe's turnout. Now since we have the Australian | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
High Commissioner here we thought we'd ask him why the Australian | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
Prime Minister's gone walkabout. Tony Abbott this week decided to run | :33:00. | :33:01. | |
his government from the outback. CHEERING | :33:02. | :33:20. | |
In a remote pocket of the Northern Territory, at the mythological | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
birthplace of the didgeridoo Tony Abbott sets to work. He's the seat | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
of power to an half thousand miles from Parliament house Canberra to a | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
Portakabin. -- two and a half thousand miles. Life under canvas is | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
not cramping his leadership style. From his outback office he has | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
deployed 600 Australian troops to the conflict in Iraq. The Prime | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
Minister is making good on a promise to spend one week every year in a | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
disadvantaged indigenous community. Living alongside these people he's | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
taking part in schemes to tackle high rates of infant mortality, drug | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
abuse, alcoholism and unemployment. Critics doubt that this makes little | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
difference to his attitudes, but the Prime Minister can chalk up one win, | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
school attendance was at a record high when he went to class. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
And the High Commissioner is still here, and we're joined also | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
by the comedian, Mark Little, some viewers may remember him | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. That is what I remember, that is what I | :34:26. | :34:37. | |
spent my university youth doing. It explains your degree. It was a | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
social phenomenon. My degree in media studies. | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
To the importance of this trip, why? Indigenous Australians are an | :34:50. | :34:58. | |
important component of our country, it makes sense that Tony Abbott, as | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
he did as opposition leader and health Minister, and as Prime | :35:04. | :35:05. | |
Minister to meet with these communities and understand these | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
communities, albeit a brief period of time, spending time with these | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
communities and it is much appreciated. Appreciated by the | :35:14. | :35:20. | |
community but it is unusual. In the modern Eire prime ministers have to | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
get out among the diversity of their communities -- in odd and | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
indigenous people at the first people. They've not had the respect | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
they deserved over the last couple of centuries. Tony Abbott wants to | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
have recognition of the indigenous people written into the | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
constitution. It is going to be hard to get an agreement on the words but | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
we have to get bipartisan agreement on it. Your impressions, the theory | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
is, the Prime Minister is in the outback and it is a change of scene. | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
You can almost see his PR team behind this, he has been one to put | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
in his foot in it a lot over the past, he's clever at doing that, | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
Tony Abbott. Recently he made a statement about the defining moment | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
in Australian history which was the British coming and taking over and | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
bringing civilisation to Australia. It was defining, whether it is | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
positive or negative. How is that putting your foot in it? How did he | :36:26. | :36:33. | |
put his foot in it? He said it was not settled, he said it was settled | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
a little bit, because what is coming up in the referendum, the | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
constitutional referendum, the indigenous people want more land | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
rights, and treaty. Something you would back? I would totally back and | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
it is hard-core in indigenous politics. What the wording will be | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
in this, is trying to make it not, to not give the aboriginal treaty so | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
they don't have any access, SA over their land. We will come back to the | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
land rights because that's been a long-standing issue. Your point, it | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
is a PR stunt. Do you admire him for doing it, it is not easy to do, | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
physically, he is quite a he-man. It is like that it Putin, wrestling a | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
bear, he's just going camping, as far as the Aussies are concerned, | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
he's going camping! Have you done it? You have more nasty animals out | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
there than the rest of the world put together. He has waved goodbye to | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
soldiers that he has sent to the war in Iraq. It shows you politics is | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
getting tougher and tougher no matter what you do. People say it is | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
stunned, if you do the right thing, it is just a stunt you make a gaffe. | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
To be honest with you, anybody who knows Tony Abbott, I'm not talking | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
about observers and commentators, I know him very well. Anybody who | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
knows him knows throughout his political career and prior to that | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
he's been very committed to indigenous issues. He means it, when | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
he goes out there to do this, that it's not to take your point... By | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
the way personally I do not think it'll have any effect on the voters. | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
But I do think it demonstrates... He has to minute, if he is going to | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
keep on selling off Australia to the Chinese, he is going to have access | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
to this important treaty. The aboriginal population appreciated, | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
for them at least it's quite a thing to have the Prime Minister stay | :38:41. | :38:47. | |
there for one week. It is, he's taken away the aboriginal | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
commission, he has set himself up as the indigenous Prime Minister, he | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
will look after it himself personally. Also women, use in | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
charge of that as well. I don't know, there's something not quite | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
right upstairs as far as I'm concerned. The Prime Minister of a | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
country, he flip-flops around. Saying things like, he's not quite | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
right upstairs, people can draw their own conclusion. How would you | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
take that comment? I would leave that to the viewers. I would make | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
this point, here is a man who was a Rhodes scholar, a deeply intelligent | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
and thoughtful person. Who amongst other things wants to do something | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
about indigenous disadvantage. By the way, it is a bit patronising to | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
think that all indigenous people have one view, there are whole | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
variety of political views among indigenous people and on this issue | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
of the recognition in the constitution there are a variety of | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
perspectives. Could you imagine another Australian politician doing | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
this? I suppose I could, I am not saying that another politician would | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
not do it, certainly, the fact Tony Abbott has done it means his | :40:02. | :40:03. | |
successors will think we should do this as well. What about British | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
politicians, not that we have the equivalent of the outback. The | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
closest we have got is one day cabinet meetings away from London. | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
Manchester, Liverpool! Just to square the circle, this man is quite | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
hard right wing in his ideological views, but he's clearly a very | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
compassionate man who believes involuntary is. When those fires in | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
Australia, when he became Prime Minister they could not find him | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
because he was doing his traditional Fire Fighting. -- he believes in the | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
culture of volunteering. It is not unusual to have conservative | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
politicians who combine this with a lot of personal compassion. I | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
suspect he's one of those. He likes to get hands-on, because he's got | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
some big issues, he needs to do his best. Thank you for joining us. . | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
Now, what's it like being a member of an all-male, | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
But if you want to know, and get the chance, ask David Cameron, | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
Failing that, you could watch a new film, that's out tomorrow, | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
The riot club. In a few years these boys will be very important. Or | :41:20. | :41:35. | |
should I say the Bollington club. It started as wanting to write a piece | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
about young wealthy people. I was first researching it for the theatre | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
play in 2007, that is when the stories about the Bollington club | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
were starting to surface. This is an opportunity to reconsider the type | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
of person... The best and the brightest. And exclusive dining club | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
at Oxford University, the club, which still exist today, was made | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
famous because some Obama 's powerful politicians are former | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
members. This movie is this woman's take on what the rich and most | :42:12. | :42:14. | |
privileged elite could getting up to. Westminster, Eaton, Harrow, if | :42:15. | :42:24. | |
you have to do. The film centres on one night of debauchery at a country | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
pub where we see the young members of the club getting trashed and | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
destroy everything in sight. Your play, Posh, was a huge hit going up | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
to the 2010 election and now we are getting into the real campaign for | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
the 2015 general election. What do you think, probably the two most | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
powerful men in government, David Cameron the primary step, the | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
Chancellor George Osborne, will make of this film considering they were | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
in this club? They might take issue with what the film suggests. I hope | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
they would enjoy the humour of it. Hopefully they would find it an | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
entertaining ride although they would probably be required to come | :43:08. | :43:09. | |
out afterwards and say it was dreadful. We have a portrait of... | :43:10. | :43:18. | |
You cannot go through there. Laura Wade insists the work is not about | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
today's politicians. We're not just offering you a club, I am offering | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
you the future. It is the time. But questions of class and | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
accountability and the issue of the privileged backgrounds of top Tory | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
MPs are all put under the spotlight. It's a problem that has been | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
discussed any number of times, that they are not necessarily | :43:45. | :43:46. | |
representative of the rest of society and people who have been | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
through a public school upbringing and straight into Oxford and | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
Westminster, how much do they really understand? If they don't have that | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
knowledge, what efforts are they making to get it? And obviously the | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
film is dealing with a very small number of characters. It is not at | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
all attempting to say all public school boys are like that, that | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
everybody at Oxford is like that. It asks the question. It's time for you | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
to leave. CHUCKLES And the Conservative MP, David Amess | :44:18. | :44:27. | |
joins us now from College Green. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Do | :44:28. | :44:35. | |
you think films like this will stoke this image of arrogant posh boys, | :44:36. | :44:43. | |
the image that your fellow MP Nadine Dorey 's referred to as David | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
Cameron and George Osborne? Macro no, I don't think it will have any | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
effect at all. Most people have never heard of this club. Perhaps | :44:54. | :45:03. | |
less about the club, and more about the image, the posh image of certain | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
sections of politicians who do not really represent the public at | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
large, is that not an issue for the Conservatives? | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
The reason I initiated this trawl of colleagues with working class | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
backgrounds is I got fed up with people suggesting we are all posh | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
and come from wealthy backgrounds. If you ask me where the real wealth | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
and poshness comes from is now on the Labour and liberal benches. I | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
have identified up to 50 of my colleagues who have working class | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
backgrounds and roots. Many have remarkable stories. I think their | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
experiences add a great deal to the national debate in Westminster. | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
Right, but is the reason that they don't come to the fore and they are | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
not highlighted is because the backgrounds of a lot of senior | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
figures and I take your point in the Labour Party, too, but within the | :45:53. | :45:54. | |
Conservative Party, half of Conservative MPs went to private | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
schools, many of the Cabinet went to Oxford and Cambridge and many are | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
very wealthy. That obviously reinforces that image? Well, you | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
see, this is a complete misnomer. Is it? One in six of my colleagues have | :46:07. | :46:16. | |
a working class background. Look at Patrick McLaughlin's background and | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
Sajit's background. He arrived in the with a pound. When they read | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
this, others have had a bath in a tin bath. Half of these colleagues | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
seemed to be hosed down in the street. They have remarkable | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
backgrounds and have gone on to hold high office. Right but look at... | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
Their backgrounds are being misrepresented. Their backgrounds | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
may not have been misrepresented but are they overwhelmed by the | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
backgrounds of David Cameron, of Boris Johnson, of George Osborne and | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
other old etonians? I'm just putting it to you. Rightly or wrongly, that | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
there are many of the advisors, even at number ten who are also from a | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
similar elite clique and this is the top of the party? Well, the issue of | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
advisors, I haven't got enormous knowledge of but in my lifetime. | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
Winston Churchill, very posh background, but then you go on to | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
Margaret Thatcher and to John Major, working class background. I don't | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
think it much matters. No, but has it reverted to privately-educated | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
old eye tonians, even if -- etonians, even if the numbers aren't | :47:24. | :47:31. | |
there but do they have disproportionate influence in terms | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
of the image of the party? I think they are given too much publicity. | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
The public are not concerned with the background of the politicians, | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
it is whether or not they govern effective. I don't have a hang-up | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
because I have a working class background and I shouldn't think | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
that David Cameron has a backhang-up because he has a come if for tab | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
background. It is whether or not who is chosen to govern | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
background. It is whether or not who sense to experience well. I think | :48:01. | :48:02. | |
that's what the Conservative Party has. Are you worried about the | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
timing of this film? There are obviously some of your colleagues | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
who are worried about t in the run-up to the 2015 election. A | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
fellow Conservative MP, says this looks like revenge for George | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
Osborne cutting film test value subsidies? I'm in the worried. It'll | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
probably just be like the Chelsea reality proximity not accurate, fan | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
it is acy. I don't think it'll do any damage whatsoever. If anyone | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
wants to make a film about working class Conservatives, I'll love a | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
part. We'll give them your number if we get any calls. Mark Malloch | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
Brown, you were educated at Marlborough College and Cambridge. | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
Is the MP of Conservative MPs disproportionate in your mind? It | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
wasn't around the Cabinet table I served on. There were a couple of us | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
who had public school backgrounds. To me, this whole issue is tragic. | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
There is no other country in the world where you could make a movie | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
like this which would resonate. Will it resonate? I think it will. You | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
have to look at the debates in Scotland during the referendum, this | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
ideal of an elite ruling them from London. What about Harvard, they | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
have not made a move have I about t but the club that George Bush was | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
part of in Harvard often features. Yale There are lots of private clubs | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
but they are not in a sense represented an elite out of touch | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
group in the way that is suggested here. In fact those Yale Secret | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
Societies have pretty much lost their footing nowadays, I | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
understand. It is unfortunate because I'm perfectly willing to | :49:46. | :49:47. | |
accept and believe that David Cameron is governing not because of | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
his education but in he sees, as the best interests of the country but | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
this is cutting away at his legitimacy and authority and | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
frankly, sclas a big drag on this country. Whatever -- class is a dig | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
drag. Whatever your view. I think it is olding back our GDP a percentagep | :50:07. | :50:14. | |
point a year. We are so preoccupied with this history. It is really | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
disappointing. Well obviously the last thing you want is for your | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
colleagues to be out of touch with voters? From 1997 to 2010 we had a | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
Labour Prime Minister with a really posh background and another Labour | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
Prime Minister with a comfortable background but as far as I'm | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
concerned, this film will have no impact at all with the general | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
public. Thank you very much. I can't believe that he said that | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
Made in Chelsea wasn't accurate. I thought it was a documentary. | :50:49. | :50:50. | |
You have the box set. I have. | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
Yes, I know, you're watching me on the Sunday Politics. | :50:56. | :50:58. | |
But what other worthwhile things could you be doing? | :50:59. | :51:00. | |
Westminster and Whitehall are liberally dotted with some | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
magnificent buildings, some of which like to make themselves known | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
but you don't often get inside them, which is kind of the purpose | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
Lots of the properties will be open to the public. | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
Some of the more important ones you have to book. | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
But I'll give you a quick tour of five of them that are a stone's | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
When it comes to Westminster Hall it's the roof you are really coming | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
to see, the largest medieval hammer beam roof in Europe. | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
The hall itself has been the scene of some major dramas in our history. | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
They condemned a king to die here, but even though I'm showing you | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
the inside, still come along because actually the surprise is how | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
From the ancient to the modern, Portcullis House is only 13 years' | :51:44. | :51:57. | |
It is where many MPs have their offices and often meet the public | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
It has some infamously expensive trees to look after and | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
since you paid for the whole thing as tax payers, you | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
The whole point of Open House London, | :52:10. | :52:17. | |
is it gets you inside buildings you are not normally able to see. | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
Getting the front door of Downing Street is hard work normally | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
but they are opening it up, the state rooms are available. | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
But here is the thing - it's been the seat of Government | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
They are security conscious and the fact is that anyone who is | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
lucky enough to be in the ballot to get inside here, will actually have | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
to be security checked, a background check will take place. | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
So, right in the heart of Whitehall, two huge purpose-built Government | :52:42. | :52:50. | |
office buildings in the Victorian period. | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
Magnificent on the outside but also on the inside. | :52:55. | :52:56. | |
The Treasury, the famous drum, you can get access to that this weekend, | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
which you often see when the Chancellor is leaving the Treasury | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
for the Commons on Budget day and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
are opening up the India office and the Durbar Court | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
which is magnificent but the real prize in here is the staircase. | :53:12. | :53:13. | |
So, there you are, if you are interested in history and | :53:14. | :53:21. | |
politics, that's an architectural smog he is boring for you. | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
And the Director of Open City, Victoria Thornton is with me now. | :53:28. | :53:47. | |
How did this come about? Well I started it in my back room. I'm not | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
an architect. Have you allowed the public in to see your back room? I | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
don't think they want to. Was there resistance? A lot. It was 22 years | :53:59. | :54:05. | |
ago. Gosh. I know, kind of of like been continuity girl but with the | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
Department of Heritage, there wasn't a Department of Culture, we were in | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
a heavy recession, 55% of architects were unemployed, so there was not a | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
real feeling of particularly contemporary architecture. It was | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
very much about the past. I thought actually architecture is about the | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
quality, not the age. So you have the Foreign Office, the Treasury, | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
Portcullis House, opposite Big Ben The Bank of England. The Bank of | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
England as well, and number ten. Anything else? 26 Whitehall, as | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
well, part of the Cabinet Office as well. And well HM Treasury. So you | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
have at Foreign Office HM Treasury you can slip from one or the other. | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
It is great. You can walk up and down Whitehall for 48 hours and look | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
at some fantastic architecture. Do has to be a good thing. Great thing. | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
My vote is go and look at the Foreign Office. The Treasury - in | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
order to efficiently govern us and know how to cut our spending has | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
rather remodelled itself and the modern architecture inside that | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
wonderful old building, where the dear old Foreign Office, it is still | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
the original - I don't know how you run foreign affairs from t but it is | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
a beautiful architectural thing. I loved being a minister there. I | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
guess you didn't try for MI5 or MI6? We do. What do they say? Not this | :55:27. | :55:36. | |
year. Come back next year. It is always refurbishment, in September. | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
And what do people have to do, I'm sure they can't just turn up? Most | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
is. The whole point is that it is free access for all. It is about not | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
getting ahead. It is free and that's the whole point of the ethos of it. | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
It isn't exclusive. It is totally inclusive. Thinking about your | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
earlier point. What about the security checks? Security generally | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
are good. Obviously there are some security checks. Downing Street is a | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
ballot. Yes, and we do a few ballots that. Did have 25,000 people in the | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
ballot. Really? Yes, so there is a real interest in architecture. | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
Queues? There are, but you accept t you know. It's like if you want to | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
get in, otherwise go and have a cup of tea on those days but we have | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
buildings like the Bank of England, which has about a two-hour queue but | :56:27. | :56:34. | |
we have the gherkin and we also have the new Leden Hall building, which | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
is the key one this year Do you get to see the gold in the Bank of | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
England? No, I don't think so. I wouldn't mind some of it! But they | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
are not all the big sort of state properties r they, that you can go | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
and see? It is a whole range. It is how you live, work and play, we call | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
t it is about opening eyes minds and doors. -- we call it. It to get you | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
interested in architecture N your education system, did any of you | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
learn about architecture? Most probably not. It is an education | :57:06. | :57:12. | |
weekend but fun. --. What about Admiralty House? It has in the past. | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
Our hidden gem is Dover House. It is in. It is a pre-booking, which is, | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
of course for Scotland. It used to be the seat of the Scottish Office | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
and I think is now Scotland House. We will see what happens tomorrow | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
about that. I think it is a great idea. Congratulations. Pleasure. Now | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
there is time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. I have | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
forgotten all about it. The question was: Which job did former Labour | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
minister, Alan Johnson suggest Ed Miliband should have done before | :57:43. | :57:49. | |
entering politics? Was it, a posman, TV presenter, stand-up comedian or | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
soldier. I soldier. I must say I rather agree. It would knock a few | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
of those metropolitan spots off him. Do you think so? I would love to | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
know what his reaction would be. I can't quite see him as a soldier. | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
What do you think? That's the point. None of us could. It would have | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
helped him survive the crowds in Edinburgh. | :58:14. | :58:15. | |
Anyway, well done, you have the right answer. Thank you for being | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
with us today, Mark. That's all for today. Thank you to all of our | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
guests. The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now. I will | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
be back on BBC One tonight, from 10.40 onwards and all through the | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
night until 9.00am tomorrow morning. Getting Westminster reaction to the | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
results of the Scottish referendum as they come in, on our programme | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
Scotland Decides, with hue Edwards in Glasgow. If I'm still awake, I | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
will be back with the Daily Politics here on BBC Two at noon tomorrow | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
and, oh, yes, Newsnight tomorrow night as well. You are joking. It is | :58:52. | :58:54. | |
a quiet 24 hours. Goodbye. | :58:55. | :59:01. |