Browse content similar to 02/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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those temperatures. Between ten and 16 Celsius. Very mild. | :00:00. | :00:37. | |
Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
Should the police and the intelligence agencies have | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
a right to know what we're looking at on the internet if it means it | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
The government will this week attempt to re-introduce a modified | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
version of what its critics called "the snoopers' charter". | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
The Home Office says several contentious proposals from the | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
Labour in Scotland vote to scrap Britain's nuclear weapons system. | :00:58. | :01:05. | |
That's in tune with what Jeremy Corbyn thinks, but not | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
There's a fair amount of men in the House of Commons, I expect | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
With International Mens Day around the corner, we'll be asking | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
And we demand total honesty from our politicians. | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration | :01:25. | :01:49. | |
of today's programme, the Conservative MP Suella Fernandes | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
Now first today let's talk about Labour and Trident, | :01:52. | :01:59. | |
because yesterday delegates at the Scottish Labour conference | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
in Perth voted overwhelmingly to oppose the renewal of Britain's | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
It means Scottish Labour is at odds with the view of its own leader, | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
Kezia Dugdale, and with the policy of the UK Labour Party as a whole. | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, remains opposed to nuclear weapons. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
Let's talk now to the BBC's Assistant Political Editor, | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
It is a very confusing picture. I suspect people to heads are | :02:22. | :02:36. | |
spinning. We have a different policy north of the border to south of the | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
border, a different stance from the leader north of the border to south | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
of the border, the app! Unite union, the Scottish section wants to | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
get rid of Trident. The national position is to only to do so if | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
there are other jobs for those employed in the nuclear industry. | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
Those around Mr Corbyn say the decision yesterday by the Scottish | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
Conference is significant because it will feed into the whole policy | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
review Labour is undertaking and their hope is that it will shift | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
opinion in his direction. You talk to other members of the said cabinet | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
and they say it is irrelevant. Policy is made by the National party | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
and the National policy Forum so we don't have to worry about what the | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
Scottish party thinks. It is hugely confusing. What it tells us is that | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
the vote on Trident, the stance on Trident, as almost become an emerald | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
attic vote about where Labour stands and its heart and soul. Will it | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
become an unashamedly left-wing unilateralist party or will it | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
retain a more mainstream stance? The forces are coalescing and we are | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
still waiting for a resolution to this. If you took moderates, they | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
are, and there will not be a change in position, but those more Subotic | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
to Mr Corbyn believe the tide is moving in their direction. That grew | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
more sympathetic. It will be implemented it -- emblem attic. When | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
will there be a settled position for Labour on the whole as to whether | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
the Trident system should be renewed? This is also bizarre. It | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
seems they're almost certainly will not be a conclusion to their policy | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
review until after, after the Commons as voted on whether to | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
replace Trident. Hypothetically, was Jeremy Corbyn to win the day and the | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
party decided they would not support it, it would be to late because the | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
Commons would have voted. Those around Mr Fallon say there could be | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
a vote later this year. More likely in the summer of next year. The | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
policy review from Labour and any new policy position on Trident I am | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
told would take at least two years, well after the Commons as voted so | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
you would have the bizarre situation that by the next election, if Mr | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
Corbyn is still leader and has managed to change the position on | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
Trident, it could be irrelevant because the money to change the | :05:22. | :05:23. | |
position on Trident, it could be irrelevant because the money could | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
Trident. Thank you very much. Keir Starmer, a Labour leader in Scotland | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
who disagrees with the Scottish party and a UK Labour leader who | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
agreed with the Scottish party but not the majority of his Shadow | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
Cabinet and MPs. It's chaos. It is a debate that is going on. We have | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
just seen the clip with the different positions but the | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
important thing is that the debate is happening. For a long time we | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
were not discussing Trident as a party or a country. There is an | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
important vote next year and it is important we have a debate before | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
the vote. There is nothing wrong with the debate and has Ishant being | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
taken. What is important is that those in favour of tried and make | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
their case and those against also do so -- and a position has been taken. | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
Where do you stand? I will take a decision when the vote is called | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
probably next year, on the evidence that is available. This should not | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
be treated as party political or points scoring. It is about 50 years | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
worth of defence for this country, it is Syria's decision to be taken | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
on the available evidence -- serious decision. But the party is split. It | :06:47. | :06:54. | |
is an important principle, different people take different views and we | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
should respect that. We should do it on the basis of the available | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
evidence and the vote will come next year. Should Jeremy Corbyn be bound | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
by the current party policy or the view of the Parliamentary party on | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
this issue? Once the party has a view, we should all hold back. | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
Jeremy has always had a clear view on that. At odds with a lot of the | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
Shadow Cabinet. We are having a debate and it is a necessary debate. | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
We can't say beforehand that you can't have a particular position but | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
we should try to get a consensus and hold to it. This is an important | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
national decision about 50 years worth of difference. What about | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
indications from Jeremy Corbyn's aids who are saying that he will use | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
the Scottish vote, despite many in the lead the party saying it is | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
irrelevant, he will use that to attempt to change party policy? | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
Anybody who is making the argument against Trident is bound to point to | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
the vote in Scotland. Those that take a different view would do the | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
same if it went the other way. We can't go into this artificially and | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
say we need a debate but we can't put points forward or say this is | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
the support in a particular part of the country. Of course Jeremy and | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
others are entitled to point to what has happened in Scotland but | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
equally, the other case as to be heard. Kezia Dugdale has said she | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
wants a more independent Scottish Labour Party. Do you see trouble | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
down the line if the party really splits on issues like this? It is | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
inevitable, as we evolve more and more issues, that you will get | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
different versions and approaches in different countries -- as we | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
devolve. There was nothing wrong with different people taking | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
different views. Would you be happy with the two parties taking | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
different views? In the end we need an agreed national position. As we | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
go from where we are now to that position, it is right for people to | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
express their views. If the Scottish Labour Party stays with its position | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
against Trident and the UK party as a whole votes to keep it, they will | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
have to abide, in your view, to what the UK National party says? Yes, I | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
think there has to be one position. What about the timing? It's not | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
going to happen for two years. There is clearly a difficulty, we don't | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
know when the boat will be. It's not going to be in two years. -- when | :09:35. | :09:43. | |
the vote will be. It does not look like you can resolve that. It looks | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
like it will be difficult, I accept that. But if it is possible to | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
resolve it, that is the best outcome. But if it isn't then it | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
would be the current Labour Party policy and would you expect Jeremy | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
Corbyn to stick by that and encourage MPs to vote on current | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
party policy? On an issue as important as this, I would expect | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
all MPs to vote with the party policy. Before any decision or | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
position is gone through by Labour? And less -- unless and until it | :10:14. | :10:23. | |
changes. Is it good to see a debate going on like this? The question is | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
what the Labour Party's position is all stop it is never been more | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
important that we have a nuclear deterrent. In Scotland there is a | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
leader at odds with the party and in England, a leader not supported by | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
the party again. Most of the front bench support renewal, the manifesto | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
supported renewal. It is sad that on an issue as important as this, party | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
politics has ruined the debate. Labour politicians of the past | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
argued vociferously in favour of nuclear armament and now it has | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
become reduced party politics. Because there is a debate, it | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
doesn't become reduced. There is nothing wrong with a political party | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
having a debate. It is obviously a big issue and we have to try to | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
resolve it. How does it make Labour look to the public at large if it | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
takes two years to make a decision? I would step back from that. There | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
is a decision to be taken and the fact that a political party is | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
discussing the right approach is a good thing and we should not suggest | :11:31. | :11:32. | |
there is anything wrong with it. We've learnt in the latest register | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
of members interests that David Cameron has become a member of a new | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
club, where does he find the time? So our question for today is, | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
what's he joined? A) Mark's Private Members Club | :11:44. | :11:45. | |
in Mayfair. At the end of the show Keir | :11:46. | :11:47. | |
and Suella will give us The Investigatory Powers Bill is due | :11:48. | :11:56. | |
to be presented to Parliament The new bill is the latest | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
in a series of attempts to update the law to | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
allow police and security services It replaces the | :12:09. | :12:10. | |
Communications Data Bill, dubbed the Snoopers' Charter, that failed to | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
make it through Parliament in the last session because of opposition | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
from the Liberal Democrats. With more and more communication | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
taking place online and through social media rather than | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
on the phone, the government says new powers are needed to allow spies | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
to access information Police sources expect the new bill | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
to require communications companies to retain data on the websites | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
people have visited for a year. But the government says they will | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
not be granting powers to go through It has also been rumoured that, | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
under the new legislation, spies will be able to hack | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
into smartphones and computers, giving them access to | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
all the information they contain. Critics of the bill are worried that | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
the government will decide against giving the judiciary the power to | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
authorise access to this kind of data and that it will instead be | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
ministers who have the final say. Conservative MP David Davis has | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
warned that he doesn't think the bill will get through | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
Parliament unless judicial But Home Secretary Theresa May says | :13:20. | :13:21. | |
that many of the "more contentious powers" from the 2012 bill have been | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
removed and that there will be "world-leading" oversight of | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
warrants to access digital records. We've looked very carefully | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
at those arguments. I met communications service | :13:38. | :13:39. | |
providers, I've met civil liberties groups, and crucially, I've also met | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
the charities and groups, Who know what it's like | :13:47. | :13:48. | |
when people suffer from child sexual abuse, child sexual exploitation | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
and rape, for example. So I'm very clear of the need | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
for these powers. But I will be setting | :13:59. | :14:00. | |
out to Parliament... With proper regulation, | :14:01. | :14:02. | |
proper oversight. I think what the bill will do | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
on Wednesday, it sets the modern legal framework, | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
but crucially, it has very strong I think it will be world leading | :14:10. | :14:11. | |
oversight arrangements within And it will be clearer, more | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
comprehensive, and comprehensible. Keir Starmer, you want judicial | :14:17. | :14:31. | |
oversight of these powers but as Theresa May pointed out yesterday, | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
three independent reviews of these powers came up with different | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
recommendations. Why do you think that judicial authorisation is | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
critical? When we are talking about intercepting two mutations, what | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
we're saying to each other rather pure data, that is a real privacy | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
issue -- intercepting communications. That is too | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
important to be left to a politician. The test is whether the | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
right individual has been targeted and whether it is necessary. Judges | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
are very familiar with this and totally independent and many are | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
trained for this purpose. When you talk about the most intrusive | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
surveillance that goes into our conversations... This is content. | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
That ought to be judicial. We do need a new law, powers to | :15:24. | :15:37. | |
carry out duties and functions properly. We need the right | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
safeguards. Get the balance right and we can agree that this is an | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
important chance historically but I hope we are not going to blow. | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
Suella, due agree it has to be judicial authorisation? I think | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
there is a lack of coherence in the framework and the rules. This | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
consolidates codes of practice and makes it clear. It is currently | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
implementable. So this will be transparent and robust. And most | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
importantly there is an unprecedented threat to our national | :16:10. | :16:11. | |
security. The head of MI5 said the most serious he has ever seen in his | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
30 year career. The powers are security and intelligence services | :16:18. | :16:19. | |
need enables them to keep ahead of the enemy. But we're speaking of who | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
will give authorisation, you agree on that level. But shouldn't be a | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
judge or should be the Home Secretary of the I'm queer, I think | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
it should be the Home Secretary and the bill strikes the right balance | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
with an element of judicial involvement. I was also a barrister | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
and so I have the utmost respect for the rule of law and judicial | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
process. But I think on an issue like this it is right that elected | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
and accountable people have this decision-making power. The point | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
that Keir Starmer is making is it should be someone independent of | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
party politics. I think accountability and Parliamentary | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
scrutiny is more important. Judges as export as they are, are | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
appointed, unelected and so on accountable. I think we need that | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
element. There is a misconception, that the Home Secretary or any other | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
minister will come to Parliament on an individual warrant by Warren | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
paces. That simply will not happen. But it has been happening, she has | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
been looking at individual cases. She has. There are something like | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
2500 warrants per year. Each takes a significant amount of time. So this | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
is a lot of time the Home Secretary has to certify. In truth her team | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
prepare them for her, nothing wrong with that, but that is what happens | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
in reality. But to go past accountability, of course she | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
carries out the function, the point is whether this Home Secretary or | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
any other in truth is accountable in Parliament for individual decisions | :18:01. | :18:02. | |
they make on individual wants, because they do not discuss the city | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
-- the details. Another situation where after the event people look at | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
the warrants and see if they were correctly awarded or not. To have a | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
judge is that better safeguard the future, it does not rule out having | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
that after the event oversight as well. So the idea of different | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
accountabilities is to misunderstand the system as it is now. Is your | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
problem the amount of time the Home Secretary has to devote to it, or | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
that you do not trust her or her team and their judgment? It is not | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
that. It is that this should be a function for an independent judge, | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
when it is this high level of intrusion into privacy. We're | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
looking at a new law, a new settlement, we need robust | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
safeguards. Other countries do it in this way and it is perfectly | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
workable and a better system. It is a better system says Keir Starmer | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
and David Davis, one of your colleagues in Parliament. And he is | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
not alone. There are other Conservative MPs who want the | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
judicial authorisation because he says if not included, you will not | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
get the bill through. I think this does come down to the original point | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
I made, when I meet my constituents and they ask what I'm doing about | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
this terror threat, I want to be able to say, Parliamentary Southern | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
treat should allow us to be able to say we are doing something, not | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
judges behind closed does. It is right that this power does allow | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
that. There is an investigatory Powers commission, a panel of senior | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
judges, which will have some element of involvement. So I think it | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
strikes a balance. This is in-line with three independent reports, the | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
intelligence and Security committee has suggested that powers should be | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
investigated. Would you not have a system that is not actually | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
compounds of a fully transparent, the very things you criticised at | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
the beginning about the current situation, that you would have | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
judges involved in some decisions. Even the Home Secretary said she | :20:04. | :20:05. | |
must devote a certain amount of time every single day to this, she's | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
distracted by other issues as well. Would it not be better to have | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
judges take on that role question mark no, because of the lack of | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
accountability. There are appointed and not directly legitimately | :20:19. | :20:20. | |
connected to Parliamentary sovereignty. In what circumstances | :20:21. | :20:27. | |
could you see the Home Secretary answering questions in Parliament on | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
individual warrant issues she may or may not have authorised. I cannot | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
think of any. There are situations where the Home Secretary has been | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
transparent. Give us some of those examples where we would expect to | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
hear her opening up about the decisions she has made. The point is | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
these applications will be made to the right processes, a decision will | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
be within her remit and is the commission, a body of senior judges | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
which has some oversight. I think that strikes the right balance. It | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
does not give this power exclusively to judges and there is an | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
element... Ragusi is the right of individuals but it is qualified by | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
the interests of national security. I think it is right that the elected | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
officials and government and executive power has a large stake in | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
the decision. Do you think it will not pass through Parliament is does | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
not prove judicial authorisation in this? I think robust safeguards are | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
really important and without them it will not go through. But it is not | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
just a question of whether for instance there are more votes on | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
this side of the other, if we are to get this right this will be a | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
framework for the future. Getting a bit and getting people agreed on it | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
is a prize worth having because we can all then move forward with | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
consensus. I think in this important area, to get consensus about the | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
approach is really worth having. Weldon was not consensus at the | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
moment. We will see what is included in the bill when presented to | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
Parliament. So what do the public make of it all? We have been out on | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
the streets with mood box. Mission impossible. | :22:07. | :22:14. | |
It is complicated business, spying, especially when politicians start to | :22:15. | :22:23. | |
get involved. Theresa May is announcing full details of a new | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
survey of balls on Wednesday that they have already come under plenty | :22:29. | :22:30. | |
of criticism. This morning we're asking people what they think is | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
more important, or privacy. Security. I would rather be safe. I | :22:34. | :22:48. | |
have nothing to be private about. I believe security is more important | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
than previously. You have thought about this. Yes. | :22:52. | :23:01. | |
I think they go hand in hand. But covert surveillance is not good for | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
anyone. Unless you're planning on doing something bad. I would have to | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
agree with both. You cannot agree with both on our programme! OK, I | :23:11. | :23:19. | |
will put it in for privacy. I would prefer to be safe. Not worried about | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
people slipping? Whatever, do what you want! | :23:26. | :23:34. | |
We always make excuses for Security and things like that and that | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
becomes invasive. I like my privacy. Pay attention, 007! It seems to | :23:41. | :23:54. | |
suggest it is roughly even. I guess it is a human right to be able to | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
pretty much do what you want within the bounds of the law and not worry | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
about someone watching over your shoulder. I am equal. You have to | :24:06. | :24:15. | |
make a decision. Security. There is no point in being private if you are | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
dead. I think privacy. It is easy? That? It is really good to have the | :24:24. | :24:31. | |
sea. If the government is asking I would say privacy, their presence of | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
security is not mine. -- their version. I do not like the idea of | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
security tramping privacy but in the current circumstances it may need to | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
be done. Well it would seem people are equally worried about their | :24:52. | :24:53. | |
security as they are their privacy. Better be careful, this mood box | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
will self-destruct in five seconds! With us now, Joe Twyman | :24:57. | :25:09. | |
from the pollsters YouGov. Our very own 007 in this case. Even | :25:10. | :25:21. | |
Stevens in that nonscientific mood box but generally the polls show | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
that public accelerates pars. It depends, if you are asking about | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
anti-terrorist powers, should security services and police have | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
powers to track terrorists stop them doing naughty things, yes a | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
majority, although only a small majority, approve of that. Whereas | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
around one third people say they oppose it. If you ask about the | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
general principle you find about four in ten people oppose and around | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
three in ten support it. So the situation varies depending on what | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
you ask. If you ask about local councils being able to check on | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
recycling and things like that then support falls away. So we're talking | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
about that say for arguments sake, serious issues. Has that changed or | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
shifted in the wake of the Snowdon revelations? It does not appear to | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
have done. The general mood seems to be maintained. It is to do with the | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
fear of terrorist atrocities. People fear for their security. And they're | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
willing to make certain sacrifices in terms of the country to maintain | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
that. What about levels of understanding in terms of new powers | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
that could grant authorities to look at not just how many calls you have | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
made or which sites you have logged onto, but the content of some of | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
that communication? People really do not understand these things, they | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
have brought ideas, as your video piece showed, whether it is privacy | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
or security. They do not have a good idea about nuances. They do have an | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
idea about who they trust with these things, they trust the security | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
services, MI6, the most. Two thirds of trust, the police only about half | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
an politicians even fewer. So this argument that the Home Secretary | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
could continue to be the person with authorisation on warrants being | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
issued would be less popular than for instance a judge? We do not have | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
data on that, in one sense it would be correct but people do like | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
politicians being a safeguard as well. It is a complicated situation | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
and perhaps not entirely coherent. What about government being in tune | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
with public opinion on this issue, do you think there is an argument | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
now for the government crossing the line in terms of havoc opinion but | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
it is by no means overwhelming. Around 53% of people said they | :27:47. | :27:48. | |
supported. That is in no way substantial. -- public opinion. But | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
with curve -- was Conservative supporters it rises to three | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
quarters. So maybe the Conservative Party is looking at its base and | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
thinking that this great support comes from. What about public | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
support for injury -- for individual types of interception such as phone | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
hacking. Again people do not have much idea what that means, are you | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
talking about voice phone, smartphone interceptions? It gets | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
really complicated. Generally when you ask about paedophiles or | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
terrorists, they say yes. But what about you, people say no. Jeremy | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
Corbyn has spoken out previously about these kind of powers or a | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
further extension of powers to intrude into people's lives. He will | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
not support this bill either way? The position of arguing that a new | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
law is needed with strong safeguards is the Labour Party position. I | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
think Jeremy took a position on previous Acts of Parliament. It | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
chimes very much with the findings, most people rightly think that | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
surveillance should be targeted at those who need to be identified. But | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
should not be general and should not apply to the public in general and | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
them in particular. But of course the argument is raised is that there | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
would be fishing expeditions and people would be able to browse into | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
areas not necessarily a threat to national security. What would you do | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
Jeremy Corbyn says that Labour would this bill? The Labour Party will | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
decide, we are in conversations with Jeremy about this. The position I | :29:21. | :29:28. | |
set out today, it is very clear and is in favour of a new law | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
safeguards. What has Jeremy Corbyn said to you in those conversations | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
question that we had discussions with Jeremy. The discussions this | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
week and have been going on behind the scenes in the Tory party | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
probably. We are clear in our position, that support powers where | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
they are needed but have rubber safeguards. That has not been | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
controversial for us. Probably there has been more difficulty on the | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
other side. Well you have not got your side on board with this? I | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
don't know about that. I think it is clear how Jeremy Corbyn will vote, | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
he has voted against all the legislation... What about the David | :30:09. | :30:16. | |
Davis opinion and people who agree with him on the Tory side? I think | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
this legislation comes on the basis of three independent reviews. The | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
Anderson review, the intelligence Security committee report and Royal | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
United securities Institute report, they all feed into this. There will | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
be free legislative committees and heightened scrutiny of this bill | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
everyone can have a say. Now, workers across the Country | :30:37. | :30:38. | |
have gathered in Westminster to protest against the Government's | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
proposed changes to laws governing And in | :30:42. | :30:43. | |
an attempt to win people round to their cause, this morning the TUC | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
launched a new advertising campaign, I work in the Essex Fire and | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
Rescue Service control room. The reason we have had to go | :30:50. | :30:59. | |
on strike recently is because the management board have changed our | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
hours, meaning the family work-life balance has just really messed up | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
the staff's lives, basically. Myself, I don't want to be job | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
shared but I've had to go to a job share position, meaning I've | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
had to take a big pay cut. The Fire Service wouldn't be | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
where it is today without us We have kept stations from closing, | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
jobs from being lost. It's so important that people | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
have the right to strike. Everyone should have the right to | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
stand up and have their voice heard. And the TUC General Secretary, | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
Frances O'Grady is with us now. Welcome back. The new advertising | :31:32. | :31:43. | |
campaign features three women, a cinema worker, a firefighter and a | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
midwife. Is there an acceptance in your opinion that the trade union | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
movement needs an image makeover? It is a reflection of reality because | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
the majority of members are women now. In terms of the government's | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
Bill, this Coney and Bill attacking the principle of the right to | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
strike, it will be women on the front line -- this Draconian Bill. | :32:09. | :32:17. | |
We will that do Suella Fernandes in a moment that you have complained | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
that the government is trapped in a Thatcherite perception of what a | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
trade union member is. Do people have a misconception about trade | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
unions and their members? There are still these old stereotypes | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
including about strikes and that is why it was important to tell the | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
stories about why people took that big last resort decision to go on | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
strike. The midwife who just wanted her 1% that she was awarded by an | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
independent pay review body but the government rejected or those | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
firefighters who want to keep local stations open with huge support from | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
local communities or the worker fighting for a living wage. When you | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
think of a typical trade union member, are you thinking of those | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
people? I think the trade unions provide such a vital service in our | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
Society for industrial relations and standing up for workers rights and | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
effecting positive change so it is right that the right to strike is | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
respected but it has to be balanced with a democratic process and the | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
impact on normal men and women going about their daily lives. These are | :33:28. | :33:34. | |
normal men and women. Of course, that the impact of strikes is | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
sometimes disproportionate. The NHS strike last summer was on the basis | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
of 19% of union workers who voted for it and participated so there is | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
a minority of people who are voting for a strike which is effecting a | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
large majority. Not in all strikes. But that is the crux. That is what | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
the government is saying, that it is not balanced and there are not | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
enough people alerted to justify it. The government admits that the | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
majority of ballots would meet the new thresholds it wants to introduce | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
but especially in workforce that are dispersed and at a time when postal | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
balloting is seen as pretty 20th century and it is only unions that | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
are forced to use it, if we want to improve turnout, it was the right to | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
vote electronically online just as the Conservative Party used for the | :34:31. | :34:32. | |
selection of London mayor candidates. Why won't you do that? | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
There are a lot of measures in the trade union Bill and they have been | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
through a reading in Parliament and there has been a lot of input. In | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
terms of the mechanisms, there needs to be a robust basis for it. At the | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
moment, it is not properly carried out. There is a disproportionately | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
small number of people participating in these votes... Not in all votes. | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
If I take you through the Bill, permitting employers to substitute | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
agency workers for strikers in industrial action as well as | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
requiring a minimum 50% turnout in all strike Al-Aqsa find on unions if | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
their picket supervises repeatedly fail to wear an official armband. Is | :35:20. | :35:21. | |
it necessary? It is the list of other things that | :35:22. | :35:32. | |
will make strikes almost impossible. I wouldn't say that, I think those | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
are necessary for reasons of legitimacy. There were over 1 | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
million working days lost through teachers strike in the last | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
five-year scum are how can it be justified? You are proposing to lift | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
a 40 year ban. -- in the last five years. | :35:53. | :35:59. | |
The public are worried about the safety and training implications. | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
Even if we meet all of those tests, you would make that strike pointless | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
because an employer could replace us wholesale with agency workers. Would | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
you agree to a higher minimum turnout in the other parts of that | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
built were not there? International law says you should not treat | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
abstentions as no votes. We want to improve turnout as well because that | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
strengthens our arm in negotiations with employers so we are saying, | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
give us the right to vote electronically and we know it can be | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
independently supervised, safe and secure, as the electoral reform | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
services have said it would be. Then we can all be happy. If it goes | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
through, would you support action that they will go ahead and take a | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
legal strike action? The reality is that we are going to see a midwife | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
forgetting to wear her armband fined ?20,000 come we're going to create | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
situations where people are forced not to comply with the law and that | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
sounds like a bad law and a bad bill that needs rethinking. Thank you. | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
Now what's in store for us this week? | :37:21. | :37:22. | |
Later today the Public Accounts Committee will hear evidence from | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
senior Civil Servants about the closure of the Kids Company charity. | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
The Chancellor, George Osborne, travels to Berlin for talks | :37:28. | :37:29. | |
on the UK's plans to renegotiate its relationship with the | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
And Parliament will vote on proposed new planning laws. | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
Tomorrow, a memorial service will be held for the late Liberal Democrat | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
On Wednesday, David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn will face each | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
other across the Despatch Box for their weekly session of PMQs. | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
And thousands of students are expected to take to the streets | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
And on Thursday, junior doctors in England will be | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
balloted on industrial action over changes to their pay and contracts. | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
Let's talk now to the Political Editor of the Sun, Tom Newton Dunn | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
Welcome to both of you. Let's talk about George Osborne going to | :38:09. | :38:23. | |
Berlin. Our number ten and number 11 panicking over these negotiations? | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
We don't know for sure but I have a strong suspicion they might be. They | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
have a problem and a considerable one in that they have lost control | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
of the process. A lot of activity over the summer when David Cameron | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
jumped around European capitals to prove he would crack a deal as soon | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
as possible. George Osborne followed suit and did a lot of jetsetting | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
around Europe and then it went quiet. The government did not say | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
very much because they were not getting much from their EU | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
compatriots. That was because they did not want to put anything down in | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
writing because people like us would say they would not get what they | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
asked for. In that time, the Leave campaign launched, perhaps more | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
successfully than the main campaign, and it feels like it is slipping | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
from their grasp. The polls are moving away from staying in and they | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
need to regain momentum in time for ideal at the EU Council in December | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
which looks pretty unlikely, but certainly to get public opinion act | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
to look like they know what they are doing which what George Osborne | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
hopes to do tomorrow. Isn't the problem that some of the EU leaders | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
say they still haven't seen any detail or concrete proposals, as | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
people here also say, is that going to be forthcoming? David Cameron has | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
said he will set out what he wants in more detail in a letter, I think | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
next week. We will see more detail at that point but we have some vague | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
areas where we know Downing Street wants to renegotiate. George Osborne | :40:08. | :40:14. | |
will probably be focusing on one tomorrow, which is making sure that | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
written's financial services are protected and that Eurozone | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
countries don't take decisions that effect the UK negatively if they | :40:23. | :40:30. | |
push for closer integration -- Britain's financial services. That | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
might not excite the public too much, it is not something they can | :40:35. | :40:42. | |
bring back from Europe, like immigration or reducing regulation. | :40:43. | :40:44. | |
That is the area that people are interested in. Nigel Farage said | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
yesterday that he would be delighted if the Home Secretary wanted to lead | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
the official campaign for Britain to leave the UK, she obviously resisted | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
on saying anything. What is your thought on that? What she did | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
yesterday was fascinating. Like only she can do. She has this | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
extraordinary deadpan style where she cuts you dead, as she did with | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
Andrew Marr yesterday, and gives nothing away but it also works the | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
other way. When you should be backing the government, saying David | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
Cameron is going to win this and it is going to be good, Theresa May | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
completely failed to say that. Setting a very obvious horse wedding | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
that she might be for out. I don't really leave she is -- a horse | :41:35. | :41:42. | |
running. I think she wants to remain in but she is playing an interesting | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
game, keeping her cards close to her chest and giving herself bargaining | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
power to ask for more from David Cameron, especially on immigration | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
which she and Boris Johnson have been on the record in the past | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
saying they need to get something back on freedom of agreement and | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
that is not on the table at the moment. On the Housing and planning | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
Bill, how controversial Will this be with some Tory backbenchers, forcing | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
councils to sell high-value council homes for other schemes? It was | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
something all Tory MPs welcomed in the election because they thought it | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
was great that they could sell on the doorstep to the swing voters. | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
The problem is, like the tax credits debate, they might be worrying that | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
it is a less popular than they thought and there might be more | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
problems than it Downing Street had first anticipated. It could be | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
another tricky area where David Cameron hasn't quite got the support | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
of his whole party. Thank you very much. Let's pick up on that policy, | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
you support the idea of forcing councils to sell high-value council | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
homes when tenants move on in order to fund either more low rate housing | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
stock or write to buy discounts for housing association tenants? We have | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
a housing crisis of epic proportions and there are people in their 20s | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
and 30s who cannot get onto the housing ladder. The solution is to | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
increase the supply of housing and anyway do that whilst devolving | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
powers to local authorities is the right thing to do. How will that do | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
that? By encouraging local authorities to release their stock, | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
that'll bring the price down and also increase the amount of | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
affordable housing. How will it increase the number of affordable | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
homes if you are getting rid of, particularly in expensive areas, | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
where it is difficult to afford homes unless you have a big income, | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
how is getting rid of council homes going to help that? There is also | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
provision in the framework for replenishment of stock and we | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
heard, with the selling of council houses, they will be dubbed unabated | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
whereby the most expensive houses, particularly in London, are released | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
for sale and were punished with additional stock. This is so unreal. | :44:14. | :44:21. | |
In parts of London, in my constituency, we have a massive | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
overcrowding problem, I have families coming to meet every week | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
with parents and children in a one-bedroom flat and however quickly | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
the council tries to build, it cannot provide the units leading. In | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
Camden it would mean selling of a third of the existing stock. In any | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
party, this is a disaster housing for the future. It is so wrong and | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
we should not be lulled into this sense of security that somehow in | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
the long-running... It is a disaster for those families and anybody who | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
wants to make the case should see these families and say to them, not | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
only do you not have somewhere to live now but you will not have one | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
for a very long time for the future. To sell off the stock when you | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
cannot even oust the people in your council is a disaster. | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
We have local authorities in possession of vast amounts of | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
housing stock which is not being efficiently use. This legislation | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
compels them to release that so it is better used, people can own a | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
home, they have a stake in society and we increase home ownership for a | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
whole generation of people. We will discuss this further when this comes | :45:35. | :45:36. | |
before Parliament. Now - each year the House of Commons | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
holds a debate to coincide with But should the same courtesy | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
be extended to men? That was the question posed | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
by the Conservative MP Philip Davies when he appeared in front | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
of the Backbench Business Committee However, his suggestion was met with | :45:49. | :45:50. | |
disbelief by the The opportunity | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
for men to raise issues that are ..Mr Chairman, of the type of | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
things that may came up and which would be part | :46:01. | :46:08. | |
of International Men's Day. I'm not entirely sure why it's | :46:09. | :46:09. | |
so humorous. But to discuss issues such | :46:10. | :46:11. | |
as men's shorter life expectancy, Many of which go unreported through | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
embarrassment of men to sort of go You'll have to excuse me | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
for laughing, but the idea that men don't have the opportunity to ask | :46:22. | :46:29. | |
questions in this place is a frankly laughable thing, I say this as | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
the only woman on this committee. The idea that this chamber, | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
that these Houses, both of them, in any way reflect gender equality | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
is frankly, And Phillip Davies and Jess Phillips | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
join us now from College Green. James Phillips, you say was | :46:45. | :47:00. | |
laughable, do you now regret saying that, was at the right reaction? I | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
stand by the idea that men cannot raise issues in Parliament and do | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
not have enough opportunity, it is obviously ridiculous when so many | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
more men are in Parliament. I think what never gets played in this clip | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
is the part where I ask for a point of order to explicitly state that I | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
do care about the issues that men face. Do not have enough | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
opportunity, Philip Davies? You just have to look at the numbers. There | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
is a difference between how many men there are in Parliament and a debate | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
about men's issues which are also of interest not just to men but a lot | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
of women are concerned as well. If you think about the issues are | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
raised, high suicide rates amongst men, the low achievement of boys in | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
schools, the health problems that do not get reported like testicular | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
cancer, the underreporting of male domestic violence, fathers getting | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
access to their children... You have had your say. All those things, if | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
you look in Parliament, they rarely get debated. And they've are real | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
issues. If Jess is saying these issues could be debated at other | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
times, the same thing applies to issues around International women's | :48:20. | :48:27. | |
Day. We have monthly questions about women in Parliament so if she is | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
going to say to people we want a debate on International women's Day | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
and she will say you do not need one because there are other | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
opportunities to raise this, it would be entirely consistent. I did | :48:39. | :48:51. | |
not deprive Philip Davies or the men in Parliament of this debate. Mr | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
Davies failed to fill in the form correctly put up it may well still | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
get through. And you would support it? I cannot say I think there is a | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
need for International Men's Day debate. I am happy and I'm committed | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
to raising a debate on male suicide, on young boys achieving | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
schools. These are both things I have personal experience of and see | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
everyday my constituency. That is not what was asked for, what was | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
asked for was a mealy-mouthed, well, the girls get one... Is that what | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
you really were asking for, just tit-for-tat, because there would be | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
opportunities to raise individual issues like the worrying issue of | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
high suicide rates amongst young men and underachievement in school, that | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
could be done aside from having a International Men's Day? I just gave | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
a huge range of issues that affect man but rarely get debated in | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
parliament. A debate for temporary would allow these issues to be | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
raised during the course of one debate in a simple way. I was on the | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
fact badge business committee 40 years will be granted debates on | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
International women's Day. All I'm saying is I do not think the spirit | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
of gender equality, I cannot see what the objection is to debate the | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
legitimate issues with a prime opportunity, to coincide with | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
International Men's Day on the 19th of November. I would suggest you put | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
in for a debate with an actual motion so the government has to do | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
something. For example the poorer targeted services for men in mental | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
health services, with a motion. But I suspect you might talk it out much | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
as you did with the carers who asked for your help on Friday. Well voting | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
on other issues, your voting record in general, are there other ways in | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
other debates, to bring these issues to light and heavy voted in favour | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
of these in the past? I always vote in favour of true equality. Did you | :50:53. | :51:02. | |
vote for gay marriage? I do not agree with it so why would I vote | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
for something I do not agree with. If we were to get into that debate, | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
it has nothing to do with quality. You could have a civil partnerships | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
and marriage for gay people, it is not the quality. So Jess has a | :51:16. | :51:25. | |
strange view of the quality. You have a very basic view of equality. | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
It is about opportunity. What does International women's Day actually | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
achieve? International women's Day is a long held day, I had never been | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
in Parliament when it was International women's Day so I have | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
no idea what happens in the debate in Parliament. But it is about | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
recognising that women internationally faced terrible | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
inequalities. Issues like the awful rates in India, issues around back | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
but in Africa the average age for a woman to get married is 14. These | :52:02. | :52:08. | |
are issues that we want to stand as sisters shoulder to shoulder across | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
the world and said we do not accept it. And that is what you want for | :52:12. | :52:19. | |
men that Davis, an exact replica of that debate around the world as you | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
might there are issues that affect women and I have taken part in | :52:25. | :52:26. | |
debates before on International women's Day. Thank you for your | :52:27. | :52:33. | |
sorority! All I ask is we have real equality and I do not know what Jess | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
is so worried about allowing these men's issues to be debated. Well I | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
look forward to seeing both of you in that debate when it happens. If | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
it ever happens. Thank you to both of you. Should there be an | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
international men stayed debate? I have sympathy for that view, I think | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
there is a serious problem of male suicide and mental health issues, | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
addiction, conditions in prison. I think talking about those in no way | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
detracts from the plight of women in our society. Jess... Right about the | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
gender imbalance in Parliament, it is there in the judiciary and in our | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
profession and we have got to face up to that. There are also issues | :53:19. | :53:26. | |
women face. So should there be a International Men's Day debate? I do | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
not have a strong view on that, I do accept that on men's physical or | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
mental health, these are issues we do need to discuss. Also role models | :53:37. | :53:43. | |
for young men. I'm neither for or against that debate, I do not think | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
that is the main issue. But they said to the issues that need to be | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
debated rather than a facile debate about whether we need a particular | :53:52. | :53:52. | |
day. Now do you care about what | :53:53. | :53:54. | |
politicians got up to in their past? Or even if they believe in God, | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
or not? Yesterday the Conservative MP James | :53:58. | :53:59. | |
Cleverly was pretty candid about his private life, when he appeared | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
on Five Live's Pienaar's Politics. I had a little dabble with | :54:03. | :54:04. | |
marijuana at University. It's a waste of money, | :54:05. | :54:17. | |
waste of time. It's not very good | :54:18. | :54:25. | |
for your future prospects. When was the last time, | :54:26. | :54:27. | |
if there was one, you made yourself Now that is a very, | :54:28. | :54:30. | |
very long time ago, actually. Well you didn't say last week | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
in the bar. What did private school do for you | :54:34. | :54:40. | |
that Well, my mum, from Sierra Leone, | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
flatly refused to let me go to She believed quality | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
of education is really important. It was in south-east London, | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
ethnically mixed demographic. But it really showed me that | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
a lot of people make a lot of personal sacrifices | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
for the benefit of their children. And that is something I | :55:02. | :55:03. | |
feel very strongly about. It wasn't the answer to the | :55:04. | :55:05. | |
question, but I'm going to move on. Isabel Oakshotte, the author and | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
chief hitwoman against David Who should be the next leader | :55:09. | :55:33. | |
of the Tory party? I'm going to do the Nicky Morgan | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
defence on this one. I think it's now going to be | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
called the Nicky Morgan defence. If you had to be | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
in another political party, We will not do those exact same | :55:47. | :56:07. | |
questions, did you find that profession or shopping? James is a | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
friend of mine and I think he is a good sport for going along with | :56:15. | :56:16. | |
those questions. But I think there is a line to be drawn. Politicians | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
are people, vegetables, we have a valid life and media have a | :56:23. | :56:24. | |
responsibility to tailor the questions appropriately. Really but | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
you might should he have answered them as honestly as he did? I think | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
it is his own choice. It was a light-hearted interview and he was | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
happy with that. But I think there is such a thing as too much | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
information. What was more shocking, admitting using online porn, or | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
wanting to snog Theresa May? Not for me to say! He was prepared to answer | :56:48. | :56:55. | |
those questions in that way, I think it is sporting of him. What would | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
you have done M last time I came on this show you asked if I wanted to | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
be Prime Minister. I was rather worried that you were going to ask | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
about my private life. Have you something good to tell us! Some | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
politicians and the public need to know everything they do in their | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
private life, I'm not in that camp. Others value privacy and that is | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
where I am. Some people would put anything about their private life | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
out there are over again. That is up to them. It is their choice. Do you | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
think that the public are interested in what you guys get up to in the | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
past? I do not think it is relevant to the job. But do you think that | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
they are interested M I do not think it is that interesting, frankly. | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
What people care about is how we are going to sort out the issues of the | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
day. What we are going to do about terrorism or housing and tax | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
credits. I think what you did 20 years ago is irrelevant. You do not | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
think people care? I do not think they are bothered. I think they find | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
it amusing on occasion. At the end of the day I think they do judge | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
people by what they actually do. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn has what it | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
takes to be a good by Minister? Yes, I think he has shown that he has won | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
a mandate. That is fine. That is good. | :58:22. | :58:22. | |
There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
The question was which new club has David Cameron joined? | :58:26. | :58:27. | |
a) Mark's Private Members Club in Mayfair. | :58:28. | :58:29. | |
The National Liberal club. I will go for the first one. Mark's Private | :58:30. | :58:47. | |
Members Club in Mayfair. You right, it is Mark's Private Members Club in | :58:48. | :58:48. | |
Mayfair. The one o'clock news is | :58:49. | :58:48. | |
starting over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon tomorrow with | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
all the big political stories | :58:54. | :58:57. |