Browse content similar to 11/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
The Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell aims to regain Labour's "economic | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
credibility" by promising Labour will only borrow to invest. | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
Boris Johnson ramps up his campaign for Britain to leave the EU, | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
It's prompted scores of marches and countless protests, | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
We'll discuss the EU's planned deal with the US, | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
And could members of the European Parliament | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
get their own dedicated chauffeur service to boost security | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration | :01:20. | :01:31. | |
Miranda Green, star of This Week, who also writes for the Finanical | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
Times, and Ben Chacko, the star of the Morning Star, | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
So in the last hour or so, Boris Johnson has been making | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
Speaking at a transport and logistics company in outer | :01:45. | :01:53. | |
London, Mr Johnson said Britain needed to "hold it's nerve" | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
I know that there are people who say that this country doesn't | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
have the guts to get out, that we have no choice | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
I have to say I think they are hopelessly underestimating | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
this country of ours and what we can achieve. | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
Because it is precisely because we stayed out of the euro | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
that we are now one of the most successful economies of Europe. | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
If we burst out of the shackles of Brussels, we would be able | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
to begin immediately with those long neglected free trade opportunities, | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
Mr Johnson earlier this morning. Miranda, how big an asset, if you | :02:37. | :02:53. | |
think he is an asset, is he to the league campaign? I think he is. He | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
communicates brilliantly, unlike many of our top politicians. But I | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
think there is a problem with this whole approach. It was quite clever | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
speech this morning. There is no downside to Britain leaving the EU, | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
will people really believe that? In a sense the leave campaign has some | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
quite attractive people there which offsets the array of loonies that | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
Downing Street is always keen to mention. They mention George | :03:26. | :03:33. | |
Galloway as often as they can. Michael Gove and Boris Johnson are | :03:34. | :03:44. | |
serious. And on the head of the conservative European Parliamentary | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
party. But there is a problem with the thrust of Boris's speech which | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
is quite swashbuckling and libertarian out of Europe. Is that | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
the character of the UK? It is conservative, but it is risky going | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
for this less be brave speech. The morning star in 1975 recommended we | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
leave the EU. What is your position this time? We are hosting the debate | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
leave the EU. What is your position on the left. The problem with what | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
is going on at the moment is that both sides of the argument are | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
dominated by the Conservative Party. Have you not made up your mind? The | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
editorial position would be to leave. Coming on to your point, a | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
lot of the reasons Boris Johnson gives for leaving would not be the | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
ones you would give? No, they would not. The right of the Conservative | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
Party are looking to attack certain rights and regulations they feel are | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
written into European law, but on the other hand I would say the | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
European Union is not a democratic institution which has a huge amount | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
of neoliberal, free market regulations written into its | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
treaties which are impossible to renegotiate. Boris Johnson said it | :05:07. | :05:15. | |
is deranged. Their range? The EU. I think it is deranged. Their | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
brinkmanship in Ukraine in 2014 and Russia, I think there is an element | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
of a will to power with these EU leaders. And in the treatment of | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
Greece, the will of the electorate was completely ignored. Jean-Claude | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
Juncker said you cannot make a democratic decision to go against. | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
They had the decision to leave and they chose not to. Yes, they could | :05:46. | :05:53. | |
have left. In terms of the tactics, we do not know how Boris Johnson's | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
speech will be treated by the public at large, it is too early to say. | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
His performance with Andrew Marr was not regarded as stellar last Sunday. | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
That is very polite. I am. But perhaps the way they go forward is | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
that Michael Gove would do the big TV interviews and Boris Johnson | :06:16. | :06:17. | |
would do the rally is reaching directly to the public. Michael Gove | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
is an excellent debater and an intellectual force, so they should | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
think about using him. But this whole story about the palace and the | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
row over the Queen backing Brexit, Michael Gove's picture keeps | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
appearing in the swallow up stories, so he needs to get that out of the | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
way quite quickly. I think it was the corgis. You have a good source. | :06:43. | :06:51. | |
Maybe they told Michael Gove. I do think it is this split with David | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
Cameron and Osborne is they feel they can win the referendum by | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
replaying the general election. You might not love us, but we are the | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
confident, calm conservatives. If Michael Gove is not onside, that is | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
a problem. Plenty more in the weeks ahead. | :07:16. | :07:16. | |
The question for today is: President Obama has criticised | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
David Cameron for becoming distracted and allowing | :07:22. | :07:23. | |
Was it a) The special relationship b) The Situation in Libya | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
c) British relations with the rest of the EU | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
or d) The American Embassy in London? | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
And a little later in the show we'll see if Miranda and Ben | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
I think they will because they read the papers. | :07:40. | :07:49. | |
Earlier this morning the Shadow Chancellor, | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
John McDonnell, made a speech which had been billed as containing | :07:52. | :07:53. | |
a significant announcement about Labour's economic policy, | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
designed to restore the party's economic credibility. | :07:56. | :07:57. | |
According to the Shadow Chancellor, the next Labour government | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
will follow a new "Fiscal Credibility Rule". | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
This means they would have to observe certain economic principles. | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
The deficit on day to day spending would be eliminated. | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
That means the government would not be borrowing money for things | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
like welfare payments or public sector salaries. | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
There could still be some borrowing, but this would go towards so-called | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
"long-term" investment in infrastructure, homes, | :08:24. | :08:25. | |
roads, railways, renewable energy and new technology. | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
And the country's debt would fall over the period of a five-year | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
All of this would be overseen by the Office | :08:36. | :08:44. | |
for Budget Responsibility which would be given new powers | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
to "whistleblow" if the government wasn't following the rules. | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
Here's some of what John McDonnell had to say. | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
We should show how we can account for every penny in tax revenue | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
raised and every penny spent. There is nothing left wing about borrowing | :09:07. | :09:15. | |
to cover day-to-day expenses and increasing debts. Borrowing today is | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
money to repay tomorrow. With a greater and greater proportion of | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
our government debt is now held by those in the rest of the world, | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
government borrowing represents an net loss for those of us living | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
here. The public, quite rightly, what a government that is | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
We did ask the Labour Party for an interview with one | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
of their treasury team, but no one was available. | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
That is strange on the day of a new policy announcement. | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
Instead we've been joined by the economist Jonathan Portes, | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
from the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, | :09:53. | :09:54. | |
who has been working with members of John McDonnell's economic | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
We balance current spending and borrowing to invest. Is that not | :09:58. | :10:10. | |
Gordon Brown? Brown, Ed Balls and Osborne. That is correct. This is | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
improved, but not radically different the rules between 1997 and | :10:14. | :10:21. | |
2015. All of those rules had the basic principle of balancing the | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
current budget, borrowing for investment spending and aiming to | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
get stepped down as a proportion of GDP over time. It is Osborne's | :10:30. | :10:39. | |
current raft, not a radical departure. He is attempting to move | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
to an overall surplus. Exactly. What was the point of consulting all | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
these Nobel prize-winning economists and doing these tours of the | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
country. We have ended up back to the future. Hopefully the Nobel | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
Prize winners gave him some radical, new ideas. But the basic | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
housekeeping staff you need fairly boring people like me to tell you to | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
do something reasonably good. What is the difference between short-term | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
investment and long-term investment? That is a good question. I am not | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
sure it really means anything to be honest. In practice the definition | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
of investment is done not by the government, the Office for National | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
Statistics will make the rule and that is what it will look like. It | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
does raise some questions we do not have the answer to. If you go into a | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
balance current spending, you have to tell us how you will do that. | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
Labour will have to tell us. In many ways current spending involves some | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
of the most sensitive areas of public spending, nurses' pay, | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
teachers' pay, welfare, things that matter a lot to Labour and we do not | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
know how we are going to do that. That is right and I am not sure | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
anyone knows. But they will have to tell us? Absolutely and fiscal rule | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
forces you to make choices. You have to set out priorities and what you | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
will spend money on and raise taxes on. There is an assumption that | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
infrastructure spending will lead in the medium, not necessarily the | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
short-term, but in medium to long-term to higher economic growth. | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
It will raise national productivity to put it that way. It is not | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
necessarily always true. HS2, ?50 billion for high-speed rail. Well | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
that raise economic growth? It probably will, but it is not the | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
best use of ?50 billion. First of all, there is a lot of cross-country | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
evidence that overall investment spending is good, it does boost | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
growth and productivity. In broad terms it is sensible. But there is | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
no point spending money on white elephants and we have had our share | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
of those. Hinkley Point C? It is possibly an even worse investment | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
that HS2. Fiscal rule does not tell you how to spend the money and it | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
does not guarantee you will spend the money wisely. There are still a | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
lot of difficult choices to make. If you are going to attempt to balance | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
current spending, but continue to borrow to invest in absolute terms | :13:32. | :13:39. | |
you will always run a deficit? Well, if you just get ballots. There is | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
nothing that stops you overachieving. It would be harder to | :13:45. | :13:54. | |
run a big surplus. If I am borrowing, to balance the budget I | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
would have to run a surplus of 50 billion on current spending. That is | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
right. But in the first couple of years, even though Brown had broadly | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
the same type of rule, we did run a surplus for a bit, so it is not | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
impossible. But most of the time under this rule we would be running | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
deficits, that is right. But not getting overall debt down? No | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
economist would say it was remotely relevant. Even after World War II we | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
had a debt to GDP ratio of well over 200% and we got it down by 30%. In | :14:34. | :14:42. | |
the days of higher growth, most major economies are struggling to | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
get over 2% growth and in the eurozone we cannot manage that. It | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
may be a different age. That is a worry, but you do not solve that by | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
restrictive fiscal policy. We and other countries elsewhere will have | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
to do something to restore growth. Are you disappointed by this from | :15:01. | :15:02. | |
John McDonnell? I think he has done a good job of | :15:03. | :15:13. | |
challenging the nation was an accreditation with finances. It is | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
not fiscally prudent to sell off our stake in the Eurostar for a windfall | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
when the public lose a valuable asset, and you can say the same | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
about the privatisation of the national Royal Mail, or the way we | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
have allowed Google to choose how much tax they pay. These are the | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
behaviours... But his economic policies, as we have heard, it is | :15:33. | :15:40. | |
more of Mr Brown and Mr Paulson. It is a physical decision. He is making | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
a sensible point that it is not about spending more money than you | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
have got, it is about taking the economic decisions that allowed the | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
country to be run more fairly. For example, if you took action to | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
control soaring rent, then you would not have the same housing benefit. | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
But that is not macro economic policy. This is about macro economic | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
policy, an announcement, and it is pretty indistinct a ball from | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
previous Labour policy. What I'm saying is that it is perfectly | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
possible to radically restructure the economy without committing to | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
spend more money than you take in in tax. Back to the morning Star, | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
presumably? That is another breakthrough this morning. | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
Consensus. What you make of it? I think it is very interesting because | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
there is a lot of chat, as we know, about the Labour leadership. Is this | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
or is this not part of the long journey towards a electability. | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
Being considered competent on the economy is part of what Labour needs | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
to do. But the other part of that is leadership. And Rachel Reid, a much | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
more mainstream centre-left figure than John McDonnell was saying | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
something very similar a few days ago, writing for the times. Will | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
peace and consensus broke out on the Labour benches over what has been | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
said on the economy? Possibly, but it does not solve the party's | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
problems. What is next in Labour's economic policy? I don't know is the | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
short answer. I have no role with the Labour Party. I understand you | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
are not a member of the Labour Party, but I think you have been | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
helpful. Simon Wren Lewis and I wrote research on fiscal roles which | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
underpins the announcement today but Simon is the one announcing them -- | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
advising them. I think they will have to do something. The issue you | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
talked about before, what do we do to restart growth in a way that we | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
have not seen, particularly wage growth that we have not seen much of | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
over the last decade, that is a key problem for politicians of all | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
parties, quite frankly. Reverting to our last chat together, are we | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
getting anywhere with these national insurance numbers? I got a bit of | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
stuff out of DWP yesterday on the data underpinning the Prime | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
minister's Bazaar and not well founded complaint about 40% of | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
recent migrants being on minimum wage. I'm still waiting for the real | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
stuff from HMRC. It will either generate | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
huge economic gains, or undermine democracy | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
and damage the NHS. The Transatlantic Trade | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
and Investment Partnership has divided opinion and provoked | :18:28. | :18:29. | |
countless protest marches. NEWSREEL: All Americans are glad | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
about the new trade agreement with Britain, but perhaps | :18:32. | :18:40. | |
the gladdest is the US For him this link between Britain | :18:41. | :18:42. | |
and America is the realisation For all of our lifetimes there have | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
been trade agreements between the US and Britain | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
as well as Europe. We are talking about what could be | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
the biggest bilateral trade But TTIP, or the Transatlantic | :18:56. | :18:57. | |
Trade and Investment Partnership, could, according | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
to those pushing it, go beyond anything | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
we have known before. The negotiations | :19:07. | :19:07. | |
started back in 2013. A deal that can add as much | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
as ?100 billion to the EU economy, ?80 billion to the US | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
economy, and as much as ?85 billion | :19:17. | :19:18. | |
to the rest of the world. This is a once-in-a-generation prize | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
and we are determined to seize it. America and Europe have | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
done extraordinary things together before and I believe | :19:29. | :19:29. | |
we can forge an economic alliance as strong as our diplomatic | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
and security alliances. The basic principle | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
of TTIP is to cut tariffs and regulatory barriers to trade | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
between the US and EU countries. Supporters say simply it would make | :19:43. | :19:44. | |
it easier for companies on both sides of the Atlantic to access | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
each other's markets. It is a good idea because | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
firstly our two markets account for a quarter of all global | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
trade and easier means -- and making it easier means we | :19:56. | :20:04. | |
will benefit more collectively, because the economy will receive a | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
boost as a result, and individually as the benefits trickle down to | :20:09. | :20:09. | |
households. And yet no deal has been agreed | :20:10. | :20:10. | |
and there is already Among the arguments | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
critics say because tariffs between the US | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
and the EU are already low, this is more about deregulation | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
and that could impact for example on food standards, | :20:19. | :20:20. | |
the EU having much stricter regulation on things | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
like hormones in animals. The logic of TTIP is | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
removing regulatory barriers, so there is no possibility | :20:29. | :20:30. | |
of raising standards in TTIP. We have had that expectedly said | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
by the UK Government, -- explicitly said by the UK | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
government, so that is clear. It is only about trying to make it | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
easier for big business to trade and invest across the Atlantic, | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
without having to worry about environmental, | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
public health or food Critics also warn that companies | :20:53. | :20:53. | |
would be able to sue foreign governments over claims | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
of unfair treatment and be Essentially they say that | :20:59. | :21:00. | |
could undermine the government's right to regulate in | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
the public's interest. Those involved in negotiations | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
had originally hoped to have a deal by | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
the end of this year. Since the end of the Second World | :21:10. | :21:20. | |
War, there has been a constant liberalisation of trade policy | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
across the world. It is a long way to go, but trade has never been more | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
free in the modern world and it has resulted in a massive increase in | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
global wealth, and trade has brought millions and millions of people out | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
of poverty. Why would we stop that process? I don't think that anyone | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
is saying we should stop the process of trade, we are seeing that TTIP is | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
a very secretive deal which is being hammered out behind closed doors and | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
not even our elected representatives in Parliament are allowed to see | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
what is being agreed to, which is dangerous. This is a treaty which | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
will enshrine corporate rights over the rights of sovereign nations, so | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
with the investor states settlement clause, companies will be able to | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
sue governments for passing laws which they think affect profits. | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
We've seen that already in Germany, where a company is suing the German | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
government because it decided to phase out nuclear power stations | :22:17. | :22:18. | |
after the Fukushima disaster in Japan, and the company invested in | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
that station says it affects their profits. Do you want to sign up to a | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
deal that restricts the ability of the public to decide what policies | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
are government follows? If you raise them ways, they could say it affects | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
profits, and if we do not pursue fracking, they could sue us. We | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
should not give corporations those kind of powers. Does the deal | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
contained these powers? I think there are arguments on both sides. | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
The only way you can hammer out a trade deal that works is to be part | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
of the negotiation and tackle the things you think are unfair and | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
improve the deal. Nicola Sturgeon, for example, who is not exactly a | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
crazy right-winger, has said that she worries about TTIP, but the way | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
to solve those worries is to engage. How are we supposed to engage when | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
the negotiations are conducted in secret? I think TTIP is significant | :23:15. | :23:22. | |
at the moment because people like yourselves, and people on the left | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
of the Labour Party are very against TTIP because they fear the idea of a | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
globalised ruthless, big business, as Kim up in the film, they never | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
talk about small businesses being free to trade more liberally, it is | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
always wicked big business, and this is a problem because it feeds into | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
the referendum campaign. It has been a blind spot on the left. I gather | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
there will be an anti-TTIP process soon with a lot of people from the | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
left of the Labour Party involved. The worry on this issue is that it | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
could cause the left wing of the Labour Party that is not pulling its | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
weight in the running campaign at the moment, maybe if people on the | :24:01. | :24:08. | |
left do not turn up and vote no, maybe they will abstain or not | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
campaign in earnest. -- the Remain campaign. TTIP tells us a lot about | :24:13. | :24:23. | |
the... The trade Commissioner said he does not take his mandate from | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
the European people. She was saying it does not matter if people object | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
to the deal but the EU will force it through anyway. One of the other | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
things the left has to remember is that the European Union is | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
responsible for a bunch of protections for workers. You have to | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
have one and the other. If you are going to protect the idea of | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
economic growth for the member nations, and Andrew made a good case | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
that increasing trade helps everyone and provides jobs, you have to have | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
a balance between tackling excessive regulation and protecting the | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
workforce. I think there is an unhealthy alliance. Though needs to | :25:00. | :25:01. | |
be more transparency. We detail of what has been agreed so | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
that we can test the criticisms, which I think people will be | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
surprised that you have to go that far to have a free trade agreement. | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
And then there is the issue of supernatural courts, that may be | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
beyond democratic control as well. There are genuine grounds for | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
concern. By the impact assessment said that nearly 1 million jobs | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
would be lost in the EU if TTIP was signed. We have seen jobs lost as a | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
result of trade deals in America. As regards workers rights, I think it | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
is very defeatist to say that we cannot fight for those regulations | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
in British law. I think we should be fighting for them in British law and | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
I do not think we should trust and institution which is not accountable | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
to us to protect us. We have to move on. | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
In the general election last year, the Liberal Democrats went | :25:53. | :25:54. | |
from being a party of government to the fourth largest party | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
Nick Clegg promptly resigned, with the current leader Tim Farron | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
With local, national and mayoral elections coming up | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
across the country, Mr Farron will be hoping his leadership | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
is cutting through with the public and that the elections in May | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
will mark the start of a Lib Dem revival. | :26:11. | :26:17. | |
In a moment, we'll talk to the party's London mayoral | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
candidate as the party gathers for its spring conference. | :26:21. | :26:22. | |
First though, here's a reminder of Tim's first nine | :26:23. | :26:24. | |
Our keyboard player rang me up a couple | :26:25. | :26:34. | |
of weeks ago and he said, Tim, we should reform, | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
# I'm just mad about Saffron, she's just mad about me. | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
# They call me mellow yellow. yellow, quite rightly. | :26:42. | :26:53. | |
We now know that coming third is as good as winning. | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
What do you think about the European response so far? | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
And we've been joined by the Lib Dem's candidate | :27:07. | :27:22. | |
Good afternoon. Do you worry that people have stopped taking any | :27:23. | :27:32. | |
notice of your party. I think people are gradually starting to listen to | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
the party again. Over the last year we have seen an increase of 5% in | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
our vote in by-elections across the country and in London we have | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
started to win by-elections including one in Twickenham last | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
year, an area we have never held even when Vince Cable was the MP. | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
People have the confidence to vote for us now and they are starting to | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
listen to what we are saying. As John Major will tell you, | :27:57. | :27:58. | |
performances in by-elections do not tell you how you will do in the | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
general election. Look at the national polls since February. 5%, | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
8%, 6%, 7%, Scottish votes, 5%, 4%. The Welsh votes, 5%. A London | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
mayoral poll, 3%. When I started in the party, we were within the margin | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
of error, so we are certainly ahead of that. We are starting to see our | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
base grow across the country. What is important is that we have seen a | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
growth in membership, tens of thousands of new members, very | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
enthusiastic, and keen to campaign. With an issue like the European | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
referendum coming up, that is key to voting. It is encouraging lots of | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
our members to go out and complain. But even with that you are divided. | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
A former MP is a new vote, liberal leave. -- go out and campaign. We | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
will see at the Spring conference. Members around London are very pro | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
European. Across London, out and in the debates, the field is very wide | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
open. The people out there like what we are saying and they like our | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
ideas. What would be, you have the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
Assembly, the English local elections, the London mayoral, what | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
would be a good result for you? I will not predict results. It is up | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
to the electorate. I was not asking you to predict, I was asking, what | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
would you regard, if you achieved it, as evidence of your claim that | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
you are on the way back? I would like to see our vote go up clearly | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
and I would like to see us with elected members of the Welsh | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
Assembly, and the London assembly, and winning seats across the country | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
in council elections. I am not going to pretend that our party will grow | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
overnight to be a big party of government. It will take time but we | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
are seeing the signs that we are moving in the right direction. Is it | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
a generational struggle? It might be. It might be five | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
-- it might be fives portends a dramatic years but people are | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
wanting to hear what we have to say. Particularly when you have a Labour | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
Party slipping to the left and the Conservative party going to the | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
right there is open and central ground, and people are willing to | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
listen to us and that is what I am finding on the doorsteps in London. | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
Who should your voters give their second preferences to in London? My | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
job is not to promote the other candidates, I am after Lib Dem votes | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
for the mayor of London and for the London assembly. If people like what | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
we are saying, I want a vote on the orange ballot paper to get Lib Dems | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
elected. But if you only get what the polls predict, you will only end | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
up with about 3% in London, a famously liberal, multicultural | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
city, then that would be a bit of a blow for the Lib Dems, wouldn't it? | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
We have some way to go. We got below 5% in the last election so we have | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
to grow in London. I have to say, the feedback when I am out in | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
London, the feedback to having a female candidate with eight years | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
experience in City Hall, able to discuss issues and come up with | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
solutions, we are hoping to get a good result in May. | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
With the Spring conference, it has been 300 days in the wilderness now, | :31:19. | :31:26. | |
what will be the big idea? The party will be debating policy, one member, | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
one bird, everybody has got something to say. That is the | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
process. I have got a private renter's motion making sure that | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
people get protection in terms of landlords, having to register them, | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
so they are proper and meeting all the standards, and making sure we | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
get rid of rib of letting these, those other sorts of discussions we | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
will be having. How do you assess the Lib Dems 300 days on the | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
disaster? Caroline is a valiant fight and I wish her luck. The | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
problem for the Lib Dems is that so much depends on what the other | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
parties are doing. As we saw in a seat like Twickenham with Vince | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
cable, people will not vote Lib Dem if they worry about the Labour | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
leader getting into Downing Street. Until that changes and until there | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
is another political poll on the left that does not frighten voters, | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
Lib Dems will have trouble breaking through in any major way. That is | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
something over which they have not got control. But they have to keep | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
plugging away and I am pleased there is a female candidate for the Lib | :32:38. | :32:46. | |
Dems. Not the first one. What advice have you got for the Lib Dems? The | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
morning Star makes the Lib Dems Ludwig. I think that Harold Wilson | :32:53. | :33:01. | |
said if you stay in the middle of the road, you get run over. Because | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
the economy is failing people who are worried about their jobs and | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
futures, we are seeing a political polarisation in this country and the | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
US with Donald Trump and so on. I think the idea Labour is going left | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
and the Tories are going right is not a celebration for the Liberal | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
Democrats. No, it is not. The voters are demanding radical solutions. | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
People were enthusiastic about the Lib Dems in the 2010 election. Thank | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
you for being with us, we will see you during the mayoral campaign. | :33:40. | :33:41. | |
It's time now to find out the answer to our quiz. | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
The question was, President Obama has criticised David Cameron | :33:46. | :33:47. | |
for becoming distracted and allowing what to deteriorate? | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
Was it the Special Relationship, the situation in Libya, | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
British relations with the rest of the EU, | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
So, Miranda and Ben, what's the correct answer? | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
Libya. Libya. That is the correct answer. I saw some of the diplomatic | :34:02. | :34:11. | |
Corps trying to play this down, but they are quite remarkable, is by the | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
President. They really are, particularly the ones with asterisks | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
in. Was he swearing? Yes, he was, although I do not know if there are | :34:24. | :34:32. | |
quoted. It is the Atlantic magazine. What has happened in Libya since the | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
fall of Gaddafi has been a total catastrophe. It is yet another | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
example of the intervention were toppling the dictator works, but | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
afterwards there is no plan of substance. We will have to leave it | :34:48. | :34:48. | |
Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
For now it's time to say goodbye to my two guests of the day, | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on Europe. | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
We'll be discussing the migrant crisis, David Cameron's EU reform | :35:05. | :35:06. | |
First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
On Monday the EU and Turkey agreed a plan to ease the migrant crisis. | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
All migrants arriving in Greece from Turkey will be returned, | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
but for every Syrian sent back a Syrian already in Turkey will be | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
The European Commission warned France and Italy that their economic | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
weaknesses risked destabilising the other economies | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
EU states want to tax e-cigarettes in the same way as their tobacco | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
counterpart, but the vaping lobby says it punishes | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
Leaders of the Conservative Party's group in the European Parliament | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
asked members of the German anti-immigration AFD to leave | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
the group after comments made about using guns against immigrants. | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
And a limousine service for the European Parliament | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
is in doubt after MEPs questioned the 3 million euros cost. | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
Drivers' uniforms alone add up to 116,000 euros a year. | :36:10. | :36:21. | |
And with us for the next thirty minutes I've been joined | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
by the Conservative MEP Charles Tannock, and the SNP MEP | :36:25. | :36:26. | |
Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail, | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
the idea of a new car service to transport MEPs around | :36:32. | :36:33. | |
Looking forward to be chauffeur driven in the back of a limousine? | :36:34. | :36:46. | |
These are proposals and there is an existing car service and there are a | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
lot of MEP is going back and forth to the airport, so the Parliament | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
has a fleet of minibuses and there is a security question there as | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
well. But these are proposals and they have been shelved and we will | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
vote against them. It will not happen? I do not think so. It will | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
only happen if the European Parliament agrees to it? The | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
proposal was reported in every single newspaper. The fact it has | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
not been shelved has not been mentioned at all. It has now. The | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
security a concern? Nobody knows who you are. No, it is the security of | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
the drivers who are not vetted properly. They wanted to bring their | :37:32. | :37:38. | |
employment in house so they could be fully screened. That would make | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
sense. But the costs are too high and the Conservatives will be | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
submitting an amendment, so I think it is highly unlikely it will go | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
through. So we can kill it now dead. Hopefully dead. You hear all the | :37:54. | :38:02. | |
news here. All the big stuff. You can use the cards. You could not | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
wait to get that point in, they are not here to defend themselves. | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
Angela Merkel has proposed deal to Under the plan, Turkey would take | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
back migrants crossing In return the EU would resettle | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
Syrian refugees directly from Turkey, pay Turkey around | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
6 billion euros and agree to visa-free travel for Turkish | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
citizens in the Schengen Mrs Merkel didn't include | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
the president of the European Council, Donald Tusk but he's | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
going along with it nevertheless. The Prime Minister confirmed | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
Turkey's commitments to accept the rapid return of | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
all migrants coming from Turkey to Greece that are not | :38:47. | :38:48. | |
in need of international protection. The EU will support Greece | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
in ensuring comprehensive, large-scale and fast | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
track returns to Turkey. We also welcome the establishment | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
of the Nato activity in the Aegean Sea and | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
we look forward to its contribution to enhance intelligence | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
and surveillance with a view And we've been joined | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
by the UKIP MEP Diane James. What do you make of this deal? There | :39:14. | :39:30. | |
is never going to be a good deal because it is a humanitarian crisis. | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
On the one hand we are worried about what is going on in Turkey. This | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
week a man was shot, said the government is doing a lot of stuff | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
we are vocal about criticising. On the other hand, Turkey has been a | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
key partner in hosting 2.6 million refugees and they need support for | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
that. On the migration question, our priority has to be to keep people | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
safe. We can keep them safe in our country or in Turkey by supporting | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
the Turks to do that. We are finally seeing some progress towards a | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
political solution in Syria which. People being refugees. That could be | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
a long way down the road. Dealing with Syrian refugees trying to get | :40:15. | :40:22. | |
into Turkey now. What do you think? Turkey has the upper hand and it | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
controls the flow of migrants leaving its territory crossing into | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
Greece and we have to do a deal with Turkey, irrespective of the nature | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
of the current government and I am a critic of President Erdogan in terms | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
of repression and arresting journalists. We are going to give 6 | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
billion euros to an authoritarian president? We have no choice because | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
people are choosing that route to the Balkans and it is only by Turkey | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
stabilising the refugees that we can stop the large flow into Europe. | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
What makes you think the Turkish people will not just pocket the six | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
billion and nothing will happen. There is a risk and it has to be | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
closely monitored. If that was the case, it would be immediately | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
suspended as a deal. At the moment Turkey is demanding a heavy price, | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
these liberalisation, the lifting on the blockage for negotiating EU | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
accession, that is pretty controversial. I understand, but it | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
looks like Angela Merkel wants the European Union to do it. What is | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
your view? It is typical German bullying which we are used to end | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
the Parliament. Mr Schultz made the point that the EU needs Turkey and | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
the Turkey needs the EU and you could not have a clearer message if | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
you wanted it. This will fast-track Turkey in terms of accession into | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
the EU, which all of the political parties except Ukip have supported, | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
and David Cameron in particular are supported Turkey's membership. It is | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
unclear when they will get it. In terms of their time frame what I | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
have picked up this week is it has gone from a 10-year time frame to a | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
time frame within this five-year Parliament. That is nonsense. I am a | :42:14. | :42:23. | |
wrap on Turner dashed raconteur for Montenegro and it poses no problem | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
for entering the European Union and it will not enter the European | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
Union. Turkey entering in five years is nonsense. It is subject to each | :42:33. | :42:40. | |
member state's National Parliament ratifying the access them, so our | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
sovereign in the House of Commond would have to say yes and it would | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
require the British Government and parliament to agree to it. Angela | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
Merkel did not consult David Cameron over the deal she put on the table | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
this week and this is the second time she has done this in terms of | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
28 member states. There is another summit which will sign it off and we | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
will be able to have our say on it as well. One of the key issues, | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
which has not come up yet, if this is Angela Merkel trying to satisfy | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
domestic agenda well. This is for the Schengen zone. Why should David | :43:18. | :43:26. | |
Cameron...? The agreement said it apply to all members. That was | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
clearly wrong. There is a part I do not understand. The proposed deal, | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
the Angela Merkel proposal at the moment, is that those Syrians and | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
other refugees or asylum seekers are economic migrants who have made it | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
to Greece will be returned to Turkey and then the Syrians will be picked | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
out, processed and bit by bit they will be sent back in a more | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
legitimate way. How in a democracy like Greece to you forcibly return | :43:57. | :44:03. | |
migrants? That is where there are legal questions about this proposal. | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
The idea that you can throw people back to what may not be a country. | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
Which is an equal signatory to the Geneva Convention. The UNHCR | :44:14. | :44:21. | |
representative expressed his doubts on the proposals. The support Turkey | :44:22. | :44:29. | |
will get to provide a safe haven we have our doubts over that. I am not | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
just talking about the legality, I am talking about the practicality of | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
a situation. We have got pictures they are of migrants in camps. Are | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
we seriously going to do it? Who will do it? Will the Greek police | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
moved in with guns? The European Union will be providing a additional | :44:53. | :45:04. | |
help, for example Europol. These people have risked their lives to | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
get out of Turkey and into Greece. If you are not Syrian, you have no | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
hope of getting back. You get sent to Turkey. Why would they say, we | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
are not moving? Returning migrants is a challenging task, but that has | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
been agreed and it will be up to the authorities to implement this. Are | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
we going to see the European Union round-up refugees and force them | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
onto boats in their thousands? Is that your proposition? I am only | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
saying what I read in the agreement in which it has been stated | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
categorically that people who are illegal and irregular who come from | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
countries other than Syria like Afghanistan and Eritrea, and they | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
have come from camps where they were established with asylum pleased that | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
had already been accepted, that they have no right to automatically be | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
granted territorial rights in the European Union and they have to go | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
back. How they implement that I do not know, that is up to them. | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
In a referendum campaign. It does, there is no doubt in my mind. | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
Neither of my counterparts had even urged upon the bill to the United | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
Kingdom, ?500 million. Not a huge amount of the UK budget. What would | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
your solution be? We're running out of time and there are two of you and | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
one of her. I will give you the last work. -- I will give you the last | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
word. It helps the Brexit campaign and the Eurosceptic movement across | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
Europe. We have seen responses to that already. The point you made was | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
critical. How on earth is this going to be enforceable? This is going to | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
be a migration merry-go-round, bringing people in, sending them | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
back, and who will marshal it and make it happen? It is the usual EU | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
nonsense. Well, give us a solution. That'll have to wait for another | :47:03. | :47:04. | |
programme. You. We've seen plenty of fall-out | :47:05. | :47:05. | |
in Britain since David Cameron But what about the people | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
who will get to vote on it? No, not the British public, | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
the MEPs in the European Parliament who will be able to amend | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
the proposals and vote on the plan. It is the first time MEPs have met | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
here in Strasbourg since EU leaders rustled up David Cameron's | :47:20. | :47:34. | |
referendum hors d'oeuvre, They signed it off but could MEPs | :47:35. | :47:36. | |
rip the deal to bits I don't think that MEPs will change | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
it because they understand Would you imagine the Commons not | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
having a say on legislation We are in charge of making | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
legislation for the EU So is the stage set | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
for a European Parliament showdown And there is a weariness among MEPs | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
about the British question, They want the show to be over, | :47:57. | :48:03. | |
one way or another. Lots of the deal that David Cameron | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
agreed with EU leaders does not need In particular, the plan to curb | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
in work benefits that workers So, too, the idea of linking child | :48:14. | :48:23. | |
benefit payments to EU citizens in the UK to the cost | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
of living in the country The president of the European | :48:30. | :48:31. | |
Parliament didn't rule out the possibility of changes | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
when the plans are produced. Our road starts when a Yes | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
vote has a majority. Then the European Parliament | :48:40. | :48:49. | |
will start immediately This is a question of the draft | :48:50. | :48:50. | |
proposal of the commission. It is much too early | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
to answer that question. But he is careful not to say | :48:56. | :48:57. | |
anything that could fuel Like most MEPs, he wants | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
the UK to remain in, This parliament can substantially | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
water down and will substantially water down any changes to benefits | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
that the UK pays to people And other MEPs second his view that | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
benefit changes are not signed off. The UK decided not to change | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
its own rules on in-work This is one of the main | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
ambiguities of the settlement. And I am not happy for the British | :49:22. | :49:29. | |
people because we have to be fair. When people are going to vote | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
in the referendum, the conditions But Madame Goulard, | :49:37. | :49:38. | |
an enthusiastic Federalist, looks set to be outnumbered by MEPs | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
who think the best thing to do There is a positive attitude | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
in the house on this emergency brake We have to solve the British issue | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
once and for all because we cannot continue with decades | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
and decades of discussion. I asked a Conservative MEP if she | :50:03. | :50:14. | |
could guarantee the deal being sold to UK voters could be delivered. | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
I am getting MEPs saying, what can I do to help? | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
I am number checking and listening to what they are saying. | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
We don't need Le Pen or Nigel Farage's vote. | :50:25. | :50:26. | |
We need 376 votes in that parliament and the vast majority of the MEPs | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
are saying we want to keep the Brits in, they do not want to rock | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
And it seems that while many MEPs are tired of what they view | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
as British special pleading, they do not want the UK heading | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
Is it possible that we could vote to remain at the European Parliament | :50:44. | :50:56. | |
could then change elements of the deal that Mr Cameron has done? No. | :50:57. | :51:06. | |
Because? It is flat nonsense. There are agreements among the member | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
states that the deal was necessary. But there is no desire among anybody | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
serious. Even from my own party's perspective, this is not the deal we | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
thought was necessary but if it is the price of continued membership | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
for Scotland, we can live with it and it is workable. The MEPs will be | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
pragmatic about this stuff. It is right that the European Parliament | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
has a say on this because there are implications for the wider community | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
but it is going to go through and it will not be changed. It is a red | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
herring. Nigel Farage was trying a bit of project fear there? He is not | :51:38. | :51:46. | |
alone these days. My colleague Vicky Ford was spot on. There is no doubt | :51:47. | :51:55. | |
that the PPP or VCR, my group, more than half of the Socialists as well, | :51:56. | :52:04. | |
that is an in-built majority -- Cammack. It will be interesting to | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
see if Ukip tries to sabotage it after the vote against national | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
interest. I'm not a member of the extreme right and do not appreciate | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
that. I don't doubt that the vast majority of MEPs will vote to keep | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
this in. The reason they will do that is that we contribute so much | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
in terms of the budget contribution to the European Union and they | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
cannot afford to let the UK walk away. But when it comes down to it, | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
ultimately whatever decision the MEPs, with, it is voters in the | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
United Kingdom who have already seen what is on the table and they have | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
voiced their concerns. It is why the polls are running as close as they | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
are. I understand that and we will have plenty of time to talk more | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
about that between now and June 23, but what I was trying to zoom in on | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
at the moment, although constitutionally it would be | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
possible that the European Parliament could make changes or | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
knock down some of it, in practice, given the majorities, it is not | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
going to happen. So in their words, in practical terms it is a red | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
herring? I would say so, yes. Thank you for agreeing. We appreciate the | :53:15. | :53:21. | |
Ukip support. I will not be putting it through. Speaking personally, I | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
think it is up a deal that David Cameron has brought back. It -- it | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
is a poor deal and that David Cameron has brought back. It suits | :53:32. | :53:33. | |
Europhile MEPs. It's the most easterly member | :53:34. | :53:35. | |
of the European Union, half an island to the south | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
of Turkey in the Mediterranean Sea. For the latest in our series | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
of films profiling other EU member states, Adam Fleming | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
reports from Cyprus. Nicosia is Europe's | :53:47. | :53:58. | |
last divided capital. On the other, with a massive flag | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
on the hill, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus which | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
is just a short border There you go, a quick swipe | :54:10. | :54:11. | |
of the passport and I come across the border | :54:12. | :54:20. | |
into northern Cyprus. It is not exactly | :54:21. | :54:21. | |
Deutschland '83, is it? Each side feels pretty distinctive | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
and there are signs of the division all along what is known | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
as the Green Line. It has mostly been like this | :54:29. | :54:36. | |
since 1974 when Turkey invaded the island, fearing | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
it would be united with Greece, which was led | :54:42. | :54:43. | |
by a military junta at the time. Nowadays both sides are separated | :54:44. | :54:51. | |
by this slightly spooky buffer zone where you will find | :54:52. | :54:53. | |
Nicosia's abandoned airport. The buffer zone is policed | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
by United Nations peacekeepers, like Major Robert | :54:57. | :54:58. | |
Saxon from Slovakia. To your friends back home | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
in Slovakia who say what on earth are you doing in Cyprus, | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
what do you tell them? When you are deployed | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
here then you try to find out, or you have a chance to find | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
out, how deep is this Then you can understand how | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
important is the presence It does not matter if they are from | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
Slovakia or other states, but we really need to be | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
here and just keep this stable environment here | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
until there is a final And unlike this old plane, | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
the peace process finally The leaders of both communities meet | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
every other week and officials negotiate three times a week, | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
but negotiate over what? The governments and the way | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
the executive, the legislature, the judiciary, will be | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
functioning in this new system How are we going to take decisions | :55:52. | :55:53. | |
within the European Union? How are we going to transpose | :55:54. | :56:09. | |
EU law into a united Then there is the economy | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
chapter which means how are we going to regulate | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
the taxation and the revenues? How will that be | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
redistributed to the entire Then we have the issue | :56:20. | :56:20. | |
of properties, a very complicated After the events of 1974, | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
many Turkish Cypriots who used to live in the south | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
moved to the north and the Greek Cypriots who used | :56:33. | :56:34. | |
to live in the north moved to the south leaving | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
behind their properties. And now the remaining | :56:38. | :56:40. | |
chapters that have not yet been touched | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
is the territorial issue. Where exactly is the border | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
between North and South and what happens to the thousands | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
of Turkish troops stationed But everyone involved reckons | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
there will be a deal by the end of this year which would then go | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
to a referendum on both sides After more than 40 years Nicosia | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
might not be divided Cyprus now has more resonance with | :57:06. | :57:24. | |
all the talk of Turkey. Absolutely. Cyprus is a Commonwealth country, | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
and it has the sovereign basis, so it is a very important country form | :57:29. | :57:35. | |
a British perspective. And they feel particularly squeezed over the | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
turkey deal because there is pressure from the Gannon for Cyprus | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
to lift its veto, because Turkey has never implemented the 2005 protocols | :57:46. | :57:52. | |
which recognise Cyprus. -- pressure from Erdogan. I feel particularly | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
sorry for the president who has two sell a package on the unification | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
deal at the same time as having to cooperate over the migrant question | :58:01. | :58:07. | |
with Europe. They should be decoupled, and not linked by Mr | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
Erdogan. It will be interesting to see what we do with the economic | :58:12. | :58:14. | |
migrants and refugees, asylum seekers stranded on the sovereign | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
basis. Is that going to be part of the discussion? It goes back to the | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
heart of the deal that Turkey struck with the EU this week. What happens | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
there? A final thought in ten seconds? The island of Cyprus, for | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
it to be reunited would be a glorious project and I think the EU | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
can get a result and we will see progress. I have met with both sides | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
a number of times and I think there is an impetus to get a deal done. It | :58:42. | :58:49. | |
will take a wider profile of things. A good piece of good news for 2016. | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
We could do with some good news. Next to all of my guests. That is it | :58:54. | :59:00. | |
for Politics Europe. We hope to see you soon. Bye-bye. | :59:01. | :59:10. | |
You and I, we're going to change this country. | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
You run and, hopefully, win elected office. | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
Not just for the sake of being something | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
I knew that seven presidents had tried, seven presidents had failed. | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
He said, "I am President of the United States | :59:27. | :59:30. |